[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [Spam] WSG Digest

[Green, Dan]

Thank you for your email. TMP will be closed on July 4th in observance of 
Independence Day. I will return your email when I am back in the office on 
Thursday, July 5th.


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RE: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?

[Dan Freeman]

The  tag is definitely not presentational.  It's good for the browser
to know what is superscripted.  Think about math and powers.

 

The browser will interpret these two things totally differently:

 

104

104 (correct)

104 (browser will think it's 104 instead of 104)

 

Dan

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Rapley
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 7:28 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: Teddy Knoy
Subject: Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?

 

I would go with David Dorwood's suggestion, this seems the most logical. I
would try and avoid the  tags, as these are for superscript, which is
really presentational and should be handled by CSS if this is the style
that is required.

On 2 July 2012 11:41, Patrick H. Lauke  wrote:

On 02/07/2012 04:35, Teddy Knoy wrote:

These e-mails aren't intended for me, but I keep on receiving them.
Ted Knoy

 

Dear Ted, welcome to the wonderful world of email mailing lists. You must
have signed yourself up at some point?

 

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To unsubscribe, follow the link in the footer that comes with each email
to this list.

Cheers,

P
-- 
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
__
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
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-- 
Warm regards,

Kevin Rapley / User Experience Designer
0772 345 7862


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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [Spam] WSG Digest

[Green, Dan]

Thank you for your email. I will be out of the office on June 25-27. I will 
have no access to email and voicemail at that time. If you need is urgent, 
please contact mark.er...@tmpgovernment.com. For all VAforVets related items, 
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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [Spam] WSG Digest

[Green, Dan]

Thank you for your email. I will will be out of the office Monday, June 18. I 
will have limited access to email and voicemail at that time. If you need is 
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RE: [WSG] list heading - best practice?

[Dan Freeman]

How about in HTML5?

 



Some Title



Item 1

Item 2

Item 3





 

OR:

 



Some Title



Item 1

Item 2

Item 3





 

-Dan

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mathew Robertson
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 5:22 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] list heading - best practice?

 

For this example:

 

some title



  blah

  boo



 

... any ARIA attributes are completely not required...   tag, by
definition, already titles the following content, simply by being in the
same proximity, aka  preceding some other content.

 

The primary purpose of "labelled-by" appears to be to semantically link an
given element to another; since proximity already gives you that
behaviour, this use-case for this attribute would be when proximity isn't
available, for example, say when something within a footer which
references content from within the body.

 

Aside... I never understood why "labelled-by" came into existence... there
is already an attribute "for" which has essentially the same semantics...
just promote "for" to be a global attribute.  Thoughts?

 

Mathew Robertson

 

On 5 March 2012 20:51, Steve Faulkner  wrote:

Hi, agree with Russ here, 

for example does


change the semantics? I think not, use of aria-labelledby is another way
of doing the same thing.

note in practice for the majority case neither is announced by user agents
such as assitive technology at the moment.
Also if it was then you would get a situation where if the user was
reading through the content they would hear the heading announced then
here the same text announced when they encountered the list straight
after.

regards
stevef

 

On 4 March 2012 21:46, Russ Weakley  wrote:

> The list title
> 
> ...
> 
> That way the semantic connection between the list and the heading is
kept which I think is the purpose of what you're wanting, yes?
> Cheers,
> S
>

I hate to nit-pick, but I'd argue that the aria-labelledby does not really
change the semantics of an element. The "semantics" of an element is about
defining the element's "core meaning". The core meaning of an  is that
it is a level 1 heading.

In the case above, the labelledby attribute "exposes" the content inside
the heading (via the accessibility API) and associating this content with
the unordered list.

So, these elements will now have additional meaning for Assistive Devices
that support ARIA. However, the attribute does not change the "core
meaning" of either of the elements.

Does this make sense?
Russ




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-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html> 




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RE: [WSG] list heading - best practice?

[Dan Freeman]

I wouldn't recommend that.  It may look OK stylistically, but not
semantically.  I believe H? before the list makes the most sense.

- Dan Freeman


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of coder
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:23 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] list heading - best practice?



Quick links



Noticeboard




Sitemap




Site policy




Useful links


??  Works for me!Bob- Original Message -
From: "David Dorward" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] list heading - best practice?



On 2 Mar 2012, at 17:07, Hanspeter Kadel wrote:

> looks like back in 1984 people could use  for the job.

No, they couldn't. It was proposed for HTML 3, but that spec was ditched
in
favour of documenting the then current state of the browser wars.

> how to do it in 2012?


 before the list.

--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk



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RE: [WSG] Best Practice - Content Within Tables

[Dan Freeman]

Tables are used to present data.  So I think it makes perfect sense to
simply put the data in the cells, and not wrap them in  tags.  Would
there be a reason to have a table of paragraphs?

 

Dan Freeman

e-Commerce Manager

800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)

330.655.0341 (DIRECT)

www.lexi.com <http://www.lexi.com/> 

 

lexicomp-email-sig

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Lapcewich, Dennis
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:58 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Best Practice - Content Within Tables

 

Folks,

 

I'm seeking some best practices advice.  

 

Is it a best practice to wrap content in a table cell using  tags?  Or
just properly code the  and/or  tags?  We have a couple of schools
of thought raging at the moment and I've been tasked to seek the wisdom of
others.

 

Dennis

 

 

 

Dennis Lapcewich

US Forest Service Webmaster

DRM Civil Rights POC / USFS 508 Taskforce

Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA

Voice - 360.891.5024 | Fax - 360.891.5045

Email - dlapcew...@fs.fed.us

 

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if
they are genuine." -- Ben Franklin, 1706-1790

 

 

 


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RE: [WSG] IE9's Browser Mode Controls - Reliable?

[Dan Freeman]

This is my favorite tool:

http://utilu.com/IECollection/

 

Dan Freeman

e-Commerce Manager

800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)

330.655.0341 (DIRECT)

 <http://www.lexi.com/> www.lexi.com

 

lexicomp-email-sig

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 1:00 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE9's Browser Mode Controls - Reliable?

 

http://www.browserstack.com/

On 23/09/2011 17:25, Josh Rose wrote: 

There is a tool called IE tester, which might be what you're looking for:
http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage

 

That said, we generally use the browser mode settings for testing here (on
the development side at least), and don't have any problems.

 

J

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Janice Schwarz
Sent: 23 September 2011 15:59
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE9's Browser Mode Controls - Reliable?

 

 

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Cole Kuryakin  wrote:

Hello All -

I've been testing a new version of a legacy project against IE 7, 8 and 9
using IE9's Browser Mode Controls.

This way of switching browser modes (between 7, 8 and 9) is quite
convenient
but... is it a true representation of how the project will render in these
three browsers?

If not, I'd love to get some suggestions on the LEAST INVASIVE way to test
different "modern" flavors of IE.

Use to do the VM routine before my C drive crashed and had to re-do all my
software. Now that all my apps are cleanly installed and working
perfectly,
I'd rather not have to add software that I only use on occasion.

Any guidance greatly appreciated.

 

I've been using those browser mode settings in IE for a while, even in a
corporate setting. They seem to be fairly accurate. 

 

I think that, generally speaking, it is better than using browsershots or
browsercam, since those just give screenshots and can't test
functionality. I use those for testing things I don't have access to (like
Mac-specific or IE6 specific issues...even then, those are only so helpful
and only address layout issues, not functionality).




 

-- 

Janice Schwarz
GeekArtist Web Solutions, LLC
www.geekartist.com <http://www.geekartist.com/> 

Phone: (214) 731-4733

Twitter: GeekArtist <http://twitter.com/geekartist> 

Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/GeekArtist> 



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This message has been scanned by MailController
<http://portal2.mailcontroller.co.uk/> .

 

This message has been scanned by MailController
<http://portal2.mailcontroller.co.uk/> .

 


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RE: [WSG] Title tags - site name then keywords?

[Dan Freeman]

Yes, search engines will put more strength on the first few words in your
title tags.

So I'd recommend:
Steel Fabrication, Pipework, Welding - ABC Engineering Ltd

Dan Freeman
Webmaster & ERP Administrator
800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
www.lexi.com




-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Stevio
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:31 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Title tags - site name then keywords?

When it comes to search engine optimisation, are you better to list the
site
name/business name first in the title tag, and then keywords, or the other
way round?

e.g. ABC Engineering Ltd - Steel Fabrication, Pipework, Welding
or
Steel Fabrication, Pipework, Welding - ABC Engineering Ltd

Are you likely to do better in search engines with the keywords first in
the
title tag?

Thanks,
Stephen



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RE: [WSG] HTML/CSS reference

[Dan Freeman]

I agree ... Bulletproof Web Design is highly recommended.

Dan



-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Jon Reece
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:05 PM
To: wsg
Subject: Re: [WSG] HTML/CSS reference

They may be a little old comparatively, but "Bulletproof Web Design"
and "Handcrafted CSS" (both by Dan Cederholm) helped me in a big way.

- Jon


On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Andrew Staff
 wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone on this distribution list would have a
> recommendation for a great HTML/CSS reference bible?
>
> I've been web developing for over 10 years but only in the last 2 have I
got
> heavier into the HTML and CSS side of things and I'd class myself as an
> intermediate in terms of knowledge so not looking for a
> starters/beginners/HTML for dummies type of reference but more a in
depth,
> tips and tricks for layout, cross-browser compatibility tips, do's and
> don'ts, etc.
>
> I have a load of web references and enjoy the links for light reading
> however am after a book that I can take with me on my commute and have
as a
> reference when needed at work etc.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Andrew


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[WSG] Dan Macfadyen is out of the office.

[Dan . MacFadyen]

I will be out of the office starting  11/02/2011 and will not return until
21/02/2011.

I will respond to your message when I return.





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[WSG] Dan Macfadyen is out of the office.

[Dan . MacFadyen]

I will be out of the office starting  24/12/2010 and will not return until
04/01/2011.

I will respond to your message when I return.





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RE: [WSG] Long documents

[Dan . MacFadyen]

Return Receipt
   
   Your   RE: [WSG] Long documents 
   document:   
   
   wasDan MacFadyen/ACT/IMMI/AU
   received
   by: 
   
   at:18/10/2010 08:43:06 AM   
   







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RE: [WSG] Image Maps

[Dan Freeman]

If you use PNG's and negative margins, this would allow you to piece
together images, but how would you handle hovering or clicking?  For
example, if you had a circle image with a transparent background, how
would you identify hovering or clicking only on the circle piece?

 

Dan Freeman

Webmaster & ERP Administrator

800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)

330.655.0341 (DIRECT)

 <http://www.lexi.com/> www.lexi.com

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:59 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Image Maps

 

You can use transparent images and negative margins.

The simplest way to set this up would be to use a program like Fireworks
(which lets you move stuff around freely and gives you an x and y).

Cut up all of your states into separate images with transparent
backgrounds.

Then you can bring them all into a Fireworks file, position them properly,
then use the x and y it gives you to figure out the negative margins for
them.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:21 PM, cat soul  wrote:

 

On Oct 14, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Christian Snodgrass wrote:





Basically image maps can be used, but they aren't usually a good idea. A
better method would be to split it up into separate images and smash them
together to look like one map. This lets you add alt tags and what-not to
make it more accessible.

 

 

In the case of a map of, say, the USA, how would you achieve this smashing
together, while still having the smashed-together images look like the
contiguous US of A?

 

cs


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RE: [WSG] HTML5 with Chrome

[Dan Freeman]

Has anyone got this to work?  I tried several times yesterday and it just
stuck at 44%.

 

Also, what do you mean by "wasteful"?

 

Dan Freeman

Webmaster & ERP Administrator

800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)

330.655.0341 (DIRECT)

 <http://www.lexi.com/> www.lexi.com

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Erickson, Kevin (DOE)
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:47 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] HTML5 with Chrome

 

Hi,

I found an edgy "Chrome Only", HTML5 development here,
http://www.chromeexperiments.com/, called The Wilderness Down and am
wondering if this wasteful, at this point in time, to develop an HTML5
site like http://www.thewildernessdowntown.com/? If it is, how long is
your ETA of when it will be the normal?

Regards,

 

Kevin


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RE: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5

[Dan Freeman]

Tom,

HTML5 allows for the use of the elements header, footer, and aside in
multiple instances.

For example, an article could have a header and footer:




Article title
August 12, 2010

 Article copy here. Article copy here. Article
copy here. Article copy here.

By: Dan Freeman




Using ID's would not help you replicate this.  You'd have to structure it
like this:




Article title
August 12, 2010

 Article copy here. Article copy here. Article
copy here. Article copy here.

        By: Dan Freeman


    

Dan Freeman
Webmaster & ERP Administrator
800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
www.lexi.com

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Livingston
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 9:59 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5

> Ignoring that this isn't using HTML5 elements, but using it as an
> analogy - via the classes and IDs - could this be improved upon? Is
> there a place for (s) here? Did I get the element concepts
> right?
>
> Thanks again...


Sorry,, Corrected Structure:


   
   Header here
   

   
   
   Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a
picture
   
   
   Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a
picture
   
   
   Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a
picture
   
   
   
   Sidebar
   

   
   Footer
   
   


-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


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RE: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Dan Freeman]

Considering the link doesn't even look right in IE8, I'm not sure I'd use
it to build anything.

Dan Freeman
Webmaster & ERP Administrator
800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
www.lexi.com

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Livingston
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:58 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?

http://html5boilerplate.com/

Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?

-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


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RE: [WSG] ems versus pixels

[Dan Freeman]

Points?  I thought points were for print and should never be used:

http://webdesign.about.com/cs/typemeasurements/a/aa042803a.htm

http://css-tricks.com/css-font-size/



Dan Freeman
Webmaster & ERP Administrator
800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
www.lexi.com

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:00 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] ems versus pixels

Phil Archer wrote:
>  Ems are proportional to the size of text you're using - and that's 
> generally the thing you want to be proportional to.
>
> Phil.
>
> Edward Lynn wrote:
>>  get much better x-browser control with px's and so that is
>> the direction im moving in
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:53 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've been converting some of our company public-facing static
web-sites
>>> from pixels to ems for layout and font-size.
>>>
>>> Anya Gerasimchuk
>>>
>>>
>







Points is the way to go nowadays :-) .

Best,
~d




-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/



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Re: [WSG] [Job] Senior Freelance Web Designer | Melbourne

[Daniel Dan]

Im pretty sure his name is Julien too. Don't know if he'd feel comfortable
being refered too with a girls name. :P

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Luke Hoggett wrote:

>  Hi guys,
>
> Don't you think you are best to reply off list?
>
> You have Julie's email address.
>
> And I'm sorry but your future job prospects aren't really web standards.
>
> cheers
> Luke
>
> ps I'm interested in long walks on recursive beaches.
>
> On 12/07/2010 4:22 PM, Jonathon Ireland wrote:
>
> Hello Julie,
>
>  I too am interested in this opportunity but do not own my own copy of
> Adobe creative suite. I work with it every day at the Youngstown Vindicator
> on their website called Vindy.com. And I too work outside of your area.
> However I do like the idea of working on freelance opportunities. I know how
> to use Flash, Illustrator, Photoshop, and Dreamweaver. I really enjoy
> digital design and coding.
>
>  Thanks,
>
>  Jonathon Ireland
>
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Julien Viard | 10collective <
> jul...@10collective.com.au> wrote:
>
>>  Small digital agency looking for a top end Digital Designer for
>> freelance projects.
>>
>>- Exciting projects
>>- Great team and culture
>>- Up to $80 per hour
>>
>> My client is a boutique Web Agency that initially specialised in web
>> marketing and SEO. Over the last 12 months, they have grown and evolved into
>> a full service digital agency, offering custom built web solutions and great
>> design. Due to a super busy production schedule and brand new client
>> projects they are looking for a super talented Web Designer to work with
>> them on a freelance basis.
>>
>>  This is what we are looking for:
>>
>>- Across the board knowledge of the Adobe CS
>>- Front-end development skills, CSS, HTML, JavaScript etc. according
>>to Web standards and best practices
>>- Flash animation skills and basic knowledge of Action Script
>>- The ability to stay creative but to understand clients’ culture and
>>branding.
>>- Amazing communication skills, why is it a good design?
>>
>> Further to this:
>>
>>- You love the Creative Suite but sometimes, a good old pencil and a
>>napkin is where you put down your best ideas
>>- You have the ability not only to produce great design, but also to
>>explain why it is a good design and articulate how users are going to
>>perceive it
>>- The Internet would be a better place if people stopped using IE, but
>>until this happens, you are aware of usability issues and can bring
>>real-world solutions.
>>
>> This is an opportunity to create a long lasting relationship with this
>> agency for a professional freelancer looking for a new gig. They are
>> offering a great hourly rate, some exciting projects to collaborate on and
>> you’ll be happy to learn that this is also an opportunity to drive, direct
>> and own the entire design aspect of these projects. If you believe you are
>> suited for this role, please call Julien on 03 9935 9409 or send your resume
>> and online folio to enquir...@10collective.com.au quoting ref M2135.
>>
>>
>>
>>   *
>> Julien Viard*
>> *
>> Consultant
>>
>>  ph: 03 9935 9409
>> m:  0403 648 687
>> e: jul...@10collective.com.au
>> w: www.10collective.com.au
>> h: Level 2, Suite B, 274 Brunswick St, Fitzroy, VIC 3065
>>
>>  This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended
>> recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential
>> information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied,
>> disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an
>> intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any
>> attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.
>>  *
>>
>>
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-- 
Vasquerity
(Daniel Dan)


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<>

Re: [WSG] that old IE6 thing...

[Dan Webb]

Andrew wrote:
>
>  (and perhaps that librarians are a bit slow to upgrade ;)
>

And then tee wrote:
>
> I think it's more to do with the fact that librarians are always getting 
> hand-me-down hardware :)

That is indeed often the case. And it's not only that. If given a
choice of buying 3 or 4 new books for the researchers and clinicians,
or buying library staff a shiny new computer when the one they have
can clunk along just fine for another year ... well, it's a simple
choice. Budgetry constraints hit libraries hard.

And while I'm here, I'll point out that librarians happen to be quite
early adopters of new technologies and web trends, and have been since
the days of ARPANET. Libraries have been quick to embrace all kinds of
services (Facebook, Twitter, SMS) to push information out to and
connect with their patrons.

It's thanks to advice from librarians that, from the time I put my
hand up and told my boss "yea, I can make you a website", and then
wonderened how the heck to do it, I headed down the Web Standards
path.

They're generelly pretty technologically aware, and do the best with
what they have.

dan.


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Re: [WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?. ANSWERED.

[Dan Webb]

Thanks to nedlud and Chris too.
Just to be clear, and to save others who might be offering editing
suggestions ..

I did just want to know if it's still necessary to do the encoding, I
don't require help with the conversion, I have that under control. And
it's not necessary anyway. The task is to insert 100s of instances of
the (almost) same URL which contains ampersands; just one part of the
URL needs to be different for each item it "belongs" to, so it's not a
simple find/replace job.

cheers,

dan.



On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Dan Webb  wrote:
> Thanks Jelina and David for prompt replies.
>
> I'll continue to do encode them.
>
> cheers,
>
> dan.
>
>
>
>
> Jelina wrote:
>>As far as I'm aware, this is still necessary. (etc)
>>
>
>
>
> David wrote:
>>Yes (etc)
>>
>
>
>
>
>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:39 PM, I wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> Years ago, I use to painstakingly and religiously convert & to &
>>> when ever I encountered it (HTML 4.01 Strict doctype).
>>>
>>> It's still pegged as invalid by the W3C validator, but is it really
>>> still necessary these days? What could possibly go wrong in modern
>>> browsers?
>>>
>>> I'm talking specifically here about ampersands in URLs that are
>>> provided to me by database vendors, which I have no control over; I'm
>>> about to start inserting literally 100s of them into static html
>>> pages.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> danny  boy.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>


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Re: [WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?. ANSWERED.

[Dan Webb]

Thanks Jelina and David for prompt replies.

I'll continue to do encode them.

cheers,

dan.




Jelina wrote:
>As far as I'm aware, this is still necessary. (etc)
>



David wrote:
>Yes (etc)
>




> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:39 PM, I wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Years ago, I use to painstakingly and religiously convert & to &
>> when ever I encountered it (HTML 4.01 Strict doctype).
>>
>> It's still pegged as invalid by the W3C validator, but is it really
>> still necessary these days? What could possibly go wrong in modern
>> browsers?
>>
>> I'm talking specifically here about ampersands in URLs that are
>> provided to me by database vendors, which I have no control over; I'm
>> about to start inserting literally 100s of them into static html
>> pages.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> danny  boy.
>>
>>
>> ***
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>
>
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[WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?

[Dan Webb]

Hi folks,

Years ago, I use to painstakingly and religiously convert & to &
when ever I encountered it (HTML 4.01 Strict doctype).

It's still pegged as invalid by the W3C validator, but is it really
still necessary these days? What could possibly go wrong in modern
browsers?

I'm talking specifically here about ampersands in URLs that are
provided to me by database vendors, which I have no control over; I'm
about to start inserting literally 100s of them into static html
pages.

thanks,

danny  boy.


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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

[Dan Brickley]

Svip wrote:

Tried "display: none;"?


>> Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but

Apparently so...



Regards,
Svip

2008/4/30 Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hi,

 I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
 legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal
 users. Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but I understand this is
 hidden from certain screenreaders as well, which well render the benefit of
 it being there pointless as they are the type of user I am implementing it
 for.

 I have tried:

 .hidden {
 position: absolute;
 left:0px;
 top:-500px;
 width:1px;
 height:1px;
 overflow:hidden;
 }

 And:

 .hidden {
 position: absolute;
 left: -999em;
 width: 990em;
 }

 But it just sits there, am I missing something obvious and has anyone had
 any joy with something similar?

 Thanks very much
 Simon




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Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI

[Dan Dorman]

On 10/12/07, Simon Cockayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am I going to see green lights* in Firefox for standards compliance,
> error-free CSS and Javascript...oh...and will the HTML and CSS validate?

I don't think _any_ Javascript libraries would affect HTML/CSS
validation in any way whatsoever, because the validators don't even
_use_ JS: they look at the source the way it's originally served up,
before any possible JS modifications.

Or is this incorrect? Do any of the validation tools revise their
validation states based on JS interaction?

:Dan Dorman


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Re: [WSG] Safari beta for Windows won't display correctly

[Dan Dorman]

On 7/18/07, Kevin Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

It looks identical to me on Safari Windows/Mac, Firefox Windows/Mac, and
IE7.


On 7/18/07, dwain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

the partners div is set to 760px wide and the text is aligned left.
there is a 2em margin top and bottom on the word partners and the font
for the gallery text is 80% in times new roman, times, serif.  what i am
seeing in safari windows beta is what i described above and the font is
arial.


The Agora image is left justified in every Windows browser I've tried
it on:  IE6, Firefox 2, and Safari.

:Dan Dorman


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Re: [WSG] Javascript problem

[Dan Dorman]

On 6/21/07, Dan Dorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

function alternateRows(tableID,numberOfColors,colorArray){
  [snipped]
  if (table) {
var trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName("TD");
[snipped]
}
  }
}


Whoops!  I got a little careless.  The line starting with "var
trs...", while it will still work, is needlessly verbose, since you've
already got the results of getElementById. You can rewrite that line
as:

var trs = table.getElementsByTagName("TD")

to save a few processor cycles and a few keystrokes.

Dan Dorman


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Re: [WSG] Javascript problem

[Dan Dorman]

On 6/21/07, Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I hope this is on topic, please ignore it if not, I have a small
Jscript problem that shouldn't be hard to sort out, but I am not great
with these things...


I'm assuming from the subject that you're actually referring to
Javascript. Jscript is a similar implementation by Microsoft that's
just different enough to screw things up.


So when I am viewing all other pages, it comes up with this error:

document.getElementById(tableID) has no properties


Since there isn't an element with an id attribute equal to tableID,
getElementById returns null.  However, in your script:


var 
trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName("TD");


... you're using the method getElementsByTagName of the element object
returned by getElementById.  This is fine, as long as getElementById
returns something, as it does when the table is present on the page.
However, when the table isn't there, getElementById returns null ...
and null doesn't have any properties (or methods), hence the error.
You're basically saying:

var trs = null.getElementsByTagName("TD")

However, it's a simple fix:  run getElementById on its own, check that
it returned something, then run getElementsByTagName on the element
which you now know exists.  Something like so:

function alternateRows(tableID,numberOfColors,colorArray){
 var table = document.getElementById(tableID);
 if (table) {
   var trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName("TD");
   len=trs.length;
   var myColors=colorArray.slice(0,numberOfColors);
   while(len--){
 trs[len].style.backgroundColor=colors[len%myColors.length];
   }
 }
}

The stuff inside the if statement won't execute unless table exists.
Hope that helps!

Dan Dorman


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Re: [WSG] Acronym tag usage

[Dan Dorman]

On 5/11/07, Nick Fitzsimons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The OED seems pretty clear on the issue:

abbreviation, noun:
a shortened form of a word or phrase
<http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/abbreviation>

acronym, noun:
a word formed from the initial letters of other words (e.g.
laser, Aids)
<http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/acronym>

initialism, noun:
an abbreviation consisting of initial letters pronounced
separately (e.g. BBC)
<http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/initialism>


Fantastic!  This is exactly the sort of reference I was looking
for--but I was unable to find a version of the OED through which I
could search.

If the OED says it, I'll buy it.  Thanks, Nick!

Dan Dorman


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Re: [WSG] Acronym tag usage

[Dan Dorman]

On 5/10/07, Kevin Futter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Russ is indeed absolutely correct. These terms are confused all the time,
and while colloquial use might have become blurred in recent years, their
technical definitions have not.


I'm genuinely interested in seeing some references on the proper
technical definitions of the terms; apparently even linguists don't
agree, and fifty/sixty years of usage (at least) seems a rather loose
interpretation of "recent years."

I was unable to dig up any positive position one way or t'other, just
varying opinion.

I promise, I won't argue any more on the matter, since this is getting
awfully pedantic, but I am genuinely curious:  if anyone has some
concrete sources on the subject, please let me know; off list would be
fine.

Dan Dorman


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Re: [WSG] Acronym tag usage

[Dan Dorman]

On 5/10/07, David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

(and its another initilism mislabelled as an acronym)


Actually, that's correct usage of acronym, in terms of both HTML
syntax and dictionary definition [1].  It just depends on how one
thinks of an acronym.

Incidentally, it it strikes me as somewhat silly to fuss about whether
to use an  or a  tag, when the two terms are
effectively synonymous, but I'd lean toward always using , since
it's an umbrella term that can encompass acronyms, alphabetisms,
initiliasms, or whatever else you want to call them, as well as terms
that are simply being abbreviated.  Since the word "acronym" seems to
have more use internationally [2], that's one point in favor of
, but again, if it's covered by , why bother?  (Other
than IE 6, of course--by the way, thanks for that tip, Nick, I'll have
to give it a whirl.)

1.  http://m-w.com/dictionary/acronym
2.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym#Nomenclature

Dan Dorman


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Re: [WSG] How to mark up a flowchart?

[Dan Dorman]

On 3/26/07, Nick Gleitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have to incorporate a couple of simple flowcharts into the content of
a site I'm building, I'm scratching my head about the best way to mark
up this info in a semantically meaningful way.


On 3/26/07, Joshua Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Flash would be a good way to produce accessible flowcharts (it lets
you re-use symbols, etc., so there is a sense in which it has more
inherent semantics than an image would) -- but it's not markup.

That's a simple flowchart, too -- anything slightly more recursive and
even the most horrifically nested [definition/ordered/unordered] list
wouldn't suffice to represent its meaning. And, remember, it's one
thing to create a technically-accurate solution, but quite another to
produce an accessible & generally sensible (usable) one.


I agree:  HTML doesn't readily lend itself to marking up flowcharts.
Rather than Flash, however, the task seems better suited to XML and/or
perhaps SVG.  A cursory Googlin' turned up [1], which might do the
trick, but of course you run into the already mentioned problem of
user agent support (the last "news" update at the site referenced was
3 August 2004).

Dan

1.  <http://graphml.graphdrawing.org/>


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[WSG] Re_ WSG Multiple class names in older browsers (3).txt

[Dan]

Hi Maxine 

 
Have a check to see 
if it works in Safari. Last time I used multiple classes I has some serious 
problems with Safari, but of course they could be two unrelated 
things.
 
Cheers
 
Dan

[WSG] Space-saving Form Select vs Space-hungry HTML List

[Dan]

Hi 
all,
 
This is more of a 
usability question than a technical one.
 
What is 
the 'official' word on the use of form selects as an alternative 
to space hungry HTML lists? 
 
This is in the 
context of something like a User Group Quickfinder (a bunch of links to pages containing user group 
specific links).
 
An obvious 
downside might be that the user cannot see at-a-glance what the 
options are, and may bypass the menu altogether, although if the menu was well 
signposted, this might not be an issue.
 
I'd be interested to 
hear your views on this.
 
 
Cheers,
 
Dan

Re: [WSG] Unofficial Melbourne meetup

[Dan Webb]

Nice one, well, I won't trouble the list anymore with this.  If anyone
else is up for meeting drop me an email at [EMAIL PROTECTED]  I'll give
it until monday to make sure we got everyone who wants to do this and
then we can work out a time and place.

Seona - I'll probably be in St Kilda by next week and Im sure you'll
have a much better idea about this city than me so yeah, wherever you
reckon.

Cheers,

Dan

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:11:31 +1100, russ - maxdesign
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The official Melbourne meetings have ground to a halt late last year with
> Dez being flat out with a new job and David running off and getting married
> (very selfish of him!).
> 
> So, could I ask anyone who is interested in taking over as city organisers
> to drop me an email. Also, anyone interested in attending a meeting
> (informal drinks or presentations like last year), please drop me an email
> as well.
> 
> Thanks
> Russ
> 
> 
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[WSG] Unofficial Melbourne meetup

[Dan Webb]

Hi,

Im not sure if this is on or off topic (it's not on either list in the
guidelines) but I've just arrived in Melbourne and intend to be
staying here for a few months (and working in web dev hopefully) so I
just wondered if any of you Melbourne people were up for an informal
meet up as I noticed there's no official meets scheduled at the moment
and I'd like to meet up with people on the local web circut to
exchange ideas and stuff.

So you know who I am, Im a developer from London and I used to be
quite active on this list before I started travelling.  I also
co-wrote all the suckerfish articles with Pat Griffiths of HTMLDog.

So, anyone up for a (web standards) beer?

Cheers,

-- 
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http://www.danwebb.net
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[WSG] Re: (resolved)Funny Left Margin in IE6

[Dan]

As per usual the answer was sitting right in front of me.
I just removed the left margin and added the 115px of left padding.

I was looking at it all morning.

Finally Resolved.


On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:26:30 +0100, Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello everyone seasons greetings to you all.
> 
> I have a small problem in, you guessed it, IE. I have a wrapper div
> which a bg image pushed to the top left and is 115px wide. Nested in
> tha, wrapper, div  is a container div with a left margin of 115px
> which is there in order to reveal the image on the left. The problem
> lies in that in FF and Opera the container div is moved 115px to the
> left but in IE it is pushed right up against the left side of the
> browser window.
> 
> CSS:
> #wrapper {
> background: url(../images/bgleft.jpg) no-repeat left top;
> margin: 0px;
> padding: 12px 0px 0px;
> }
> #container {
> background: #FFF;
> border: 3px solid #473822;
> border-bottom: none;
> margin: 0px 20px 0px 115px;
> padding: 4px 3px 3px 0;
> width: 751px;
> voice-family: "\"}\"";
> voice-family: inherit;
> width: 763px;
> }
> 
> Markup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any body know whats going on here, or could point me in the right
> direction to a article on this type of thing?
> 
> Thanks
> Dan
>
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[WSG] Funny Left Margin in IE6

[Dan]

Hello everyone seasons greetings to you all.

I have a small problem in, you guessed it, IE. I have a wrapper div
which a bg image pushed to the top left and is 115px wide. Nested in
tha, wrapper, div  is a container div with a left margin of 115px
which is there in order to reveal the image on the left. The problem
lies in that in FF and Opera the container div is moved 115px to the
left but in IE it is pushed right up against the left side of the
browser window.

CSS:
#wrapper {
background: url(../images/bgleft.jpg) no-repeat left top;
margin: 0px;
padding: 12px 0px 0px;
}
#container {
background: #FFF;
border: 3px solid #473822;
border-bottom: none;
margin: 0px 20px 0px 115px;
padding: 4px 3px 3px 0;
width: 751px;
voice-family: "\"}\"";
voice-family: inherit;
width: 763px;
}

Markup:







Any body know whats going on here, or could point me in the right
direction to a article on this type of thing?

Thanks
Dan
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[WSG] Float Issue (I think)

[Dan]

Hello all this is my first post so bear with me. 
(if that 1st sentence didn't put you off please read on)

I have, what I think is a Float related issue, which is causing me
some layout problems.
The URL to the page is:
http://www.euromediatraffic.com/~daniel/pt/index.html and the
stylesheet is: http://www.euromediatraffic.com/~daniel/pt/css/style.css

But to get a fair Idea of what i'm trying to achieve maybe you can
take a look at this mockup :
http://www.euromediatraffic.com/~daniel/pt/site_mockup.jpg

1.
As you will see the divs, inside the main left Column div, wont
position up flush against each other. I have tried removing top and
bottom padding, margins and borders but with no joy. The answer is
probably staring me in the face but I can't seem to find it. Could it
be something to do with the right floated GlobalNav div?

2.
Also, in my main content area you will see that the div (qLaunch) has
been given a specific height but seems to extend down to the end of
it's containg div, which seems to affect the following div
(#content)(with the horrible blue background). I figure this is to do
with the left floated objects inside the qLaunch div but really can't
figure it out.

If anyone can shed a little light on these "problems," for me or point
me in the right direction  I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
Dan
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Re: [WSG] LI VS Tables - A Tabular data fight

[Dan Webb]

Tables are for tabular data, use tables.  There's no need to get over excited
and stop using tables for everything!

Marking up tabluar data with divs and lists will not only be difficult to style
but also semantically incorrect.

Quoting Genau Junior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I Would like to know about your oppinion for using tabular data with 
>  or to use  to show them.
> I´ve been researching on the web about this discussion but i didn´t found an
> answer really straight.
> I am rebuilding a website using XHTML, that will work with many tabular data
> and i have some doubts about to use div/lists easily and semanticly correct.
> I would like to know, if some developed a website that uses tabular data
> without tables and what was the experience using them.
> Soon as possible i will publish my work using  to show how i did
> that.
> 
> 
> 
> Hugs, 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genau Lopes Júnior
> WebDesigner
> ¬¬¬
> http://www.meucarronovo.com.br
> (new site under construction)


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RE: [WSG] Yahoo CSS'ing

[Dan Webb]

Try:

http://www.yahoo.com/beta

or just click the "BETA" link on the homepage just under the search box on the
right hand side.  It appears to be a bit fussy about what browsers it lets see
it though.

Cheers,

Dam


Quoting Patrick Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Weird indeed. From home, I see the new table-less design. From work here,
> it's still the old one...
> 
> Patrick
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Tony Crockford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 30 September 2004 09:15
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [WSG] Yahoo CSS'ing
> > 
> > 
> > I'm a bit confused, if I go to http://www.yahoo.com/ I'm 
> > still seeing the  
> > tabled version.
> > 
> > have they got some clever locale sniffing going on or what?
> > 
> > (I'm in the UK)
> > 
> > -- 
> > listening to: background noise
> > 
> > http://wiki.workalone.co.uk
> > http://www.xebit.net
> > **
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> > 
> > Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> >  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> > To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> > 
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> >  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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> > 
> > 
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> 
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>  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
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> 
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>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] Moz vs. FF

[Dan Webb]

It tells you that but it lies.  Ive got it working on 1.0PR by just reinstalling
it after installing 1.0PR.

Quoting Tom Livingston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Current version of Web Dev extention is incompatible with FF 1.0PR...
> 
> 
> Tom Livingston
> Senior Multimedia Artist
> mlinc.com
> 
> Get FireFox >  http://spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt Andrews wrote:
> > ... and, if you're using the Web Developer extension, Firefox has a
> > huge advantage over Mozilla: the "Edit CSS" feature - a must for any
> > CSS developer!
> > 
> > load a page, choose "Edit CSS", and a sidebar opens with the CSS
> > files.  edit them and see the results *instantly* in the browser. 
> > save the CSS files out to disk.  bliss :)
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:50:22 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> > 
> >>Mozilla has a more mature UI, besides bundling not only mailnews but
> >>also IRC chat, address book, and web page composer. Firefox is less
> >>mature, but offers more customizability of the UI itself, separate from
> >>any extensions you may choose to add. FF, being smaller, runs slightly
> >>faster. So, which to pick depends on personal preferences as to look and
> >>feel and minor functionality, in addition to whether you need or want
> >>the bundled apps. Either way you choose, you'll want the web developer
> >>extension: http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/webdeveloper
> > 
> > **
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> > 
> > Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> >  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> > To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> > 
> >  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> >  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > **
> > 
> > 
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> 
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Re: [WSG] The way forward for Web Standards

[Dan Webb]

Sounds good, you've sold it to me.  It's update time!

Quoting Mark Harwood , [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:50 , Dan Webb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
> >You're preaching to the converted here, mate :) On this list, IE is only
> ever
> >mentioned in vain.  I've got Firefox 0.9.2...is it worth getting v1.0PR?
> 
> 
> Hey Dan :D
> 
> Id get it just for the RSS Bookmark Feed Lister alone!
> 
> I love the little thing! and im not into RSS reader's at all but to have my
> Fav
> sie's news posts within my Bookmarks instead of just a link to the site is
> great!
> 
> Mark Harwood
> 
> Phunky.co.uk / Xhtmlandcss.co.uk / Zinkmedia.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> **
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>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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> 


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Re: [WSG] The way forward for Web Standards

[Dan Webb]

You're preaching to the converted here, mate :) On this list, IE is only ever
mentioned in vain.  I've got Firefox 0.9.2...is it worth getting v1.0PR?

Quoting Amit Karmakar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
 
> 1. Download the preview release Firefox v1.0
> 2. Test it out (every click helps!)
> 3. Provide feedback ASAP to the firefox team re: pros and cons -
> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi
> 4. Promote Firefox on your site/blog -
> http://spreadfirefox.com/community/ (put a banner)
> 

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07957 234544
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Re: [WSG] DOM setAttribute in IE?

[Dan Webb]

Also, if you assign the event using the way below (detailed by Mark) the keyword
"this" would refer to the link so you could do this:

anchor.onclick = function(){
window.open(this.href,'popupwindow','width=400,height=400,scrollbars=1,resizable=1');
return false;
}

rather than using event.srcElement to get the href.  DO NOT USE attachEvent
unless you only intend this event to occur for IE.  It's non-standard - we
should be working to get rid of non-standard JavaScript as well as HTML and
CSS.  Finally, theres no need to use setAttribute().  The better way is to
reference the property directly as each link is also a Link object that makes
these properties available.  It's simpler and more reliable cross browser. 
Here's how Id rewrite it:


> var anchors = document.getElementsByTagName('a');
> for (var i=0; i<anchors.length; i++) {
> if (anchors[i].rel == 'help') anchors[i].onclick =
function(){
window.open(this.href,'popupwindow','width=400,height=400,scrollbars=1,resizable=1');
return false;
};  
> }
> 

I think now we've established standards and good practice for HTML and CSS, DOM
scripting is still overlooked.  PPK has established some pretty good practices
but we need to go further.  If anyone else has an interest in this get in
contact as I'd like to take it forward in some way.

Cheers,

Dan Webb
http://www.danwebb.net

Quoting Mark Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi Justin,
> 
> You can also use the simpler event model and add the event as follows:
> 
> anchor.onclick = function(){
>   alert('anchor with rel clicked');
> }
> 
> This works in both IE and Mozilla.
> 
> For more info on events in javascript the best resource I've found is
> http://www.quirksmode.org
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> 
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:06:28 +0300, Eser 'Laroux' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > You can use attachEvent method for this. But it's supported by Internet
> > Explorer 6 only.
> > 
> > --
> > test
> > 
> > 
> > var anchors = document.getElementsByTagName('a');
> > for (var i=0; i<anchors.length; i++) {
> > var anchor = anchors[i];
> > if (anchor.getAttribute('rel') == 'help') {
> > anchor.attachEvent(
> > 'onclick',
> > function() {
> >
> window.open(event.srcElement.getAttribute('href'),'popupwindow','width=400,h
> > eight=400,scrollbars=1,resizable=1'); return false; }
> > );
> > }
> > }
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Here's a function:
> > >
> > > function helpLinks()
> > >   {
> > >   if(!document.getElementsByTagName) return;
> > >   var anchors = document.getElementsByTagName("a");
> > >   for (var i=0; i > >   {
> > >   var anchor = anchors[i];
> > >   if (anchor.getAttribute("href") &&
> > anchor.getAttribute("rel")
> > > ==
> > > "help")
> > >   {
> > >   anchor.setAttribute(
> > > "onclick","window.open(this.href,'popupwindow','width=400,height=400,scr
> > > ollbars,resizable'); return false;",0);
> > >   }
> > >   }
> > >   }
> > >
> > > It works perfectly well in everything I can get my hands on except for
> > > IE, where it fails to set the onclick event to all A elements with a
> > > rel attribute of 'help'.
> > >
> > > Changing anchor.setAttribute(...) to
> > > anchor.setAttribute('target','_blank',0); DOES work (the link opens in
> > > a new window), so it would appear that IE doesn't like setting onlick
> > > attributes this way.
> > >
> > > Can anyone either:
> > > - suggest an alternate way to achieve this, or
> > > - suggest a good mailing list to seek further help on (like a DOM list)
> > 
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> > 
> > Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> >  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> > To be held in Sydney, Sep

Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play

[Dan Webb]

> Try writing the necessary, but bloated flash code dynamically from a 
> linked JS file as a function. Then call the function within the 
> document. Safe, reliable and valid.

...and it doesn't work without JavaScript enabled.  Also, in reality that's just
tricking the validator and still supplying invalid code to the browser.  I'd
avoid that method if I were you.  Personally, I like the version using IE
conditional comments.  It does require some repetition but its solid.  Far from
perfect though I have to say.  I've done a load of experimentation on this
subject and as yet have got nowhere.  It really is a massive pain in the
a*se...

Im not sure of the link to the article explaining the conditional IE comments
and haven't got time to root it out at the moment but Im sure one of friendly
list dudes will know it...

Cheers,

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Re: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help

[Dan Webb]

I'd use a table for the main data table if I were you...it's tabular data.

Quoting Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I think this has something to do with the floats.
> but in IE6.
> 
> when i load this page, the text doesn't appear
> http://img.neester.com/image_index
> 
> it also has a weird bug in FIREFOX where the these little blocks come in 
> on the sides...
> 
> what do you think would be the best solution?
> actually use tables?
> 
> i think i might.
> 
> any help on the topic would be greatly appreciated!
> thanks!
> 
> *- chris stratford*
> 


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Re: [WSG] Comment syntax in external javascript files?

[dan]

is all thats necessary. The actual JavaScript file is supposed to be
text/javascript and not XML so you need not put any extra blurb in it...just
the script.

Cheers,

Dan



 TIA
> 
> Nick
> ___
> Omnivision. Websight.
> http://www.omnivision.com.au/
> 
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RE: [WSG] Re: Does a CSS file load all graphics or only page relevant ones?

[Dan Webb]

Surely you can just test by pointing a CSS file at some kind of simple
server that echos to the console whenever it gets a request.  If you ran it
on your local machine it should be reasonably accurate.  I've got a little
java HTTP mirror server thing you could use actually.

http://www.danwebb.net/code/mirror2.jar

To use it download that then set it running on your computer by copying it
somewhere on your hard drive then typing into your command prompt or shell
or whatever:

java -jar mirror2.jar 8000 

Where 8000 is the port number you want to run it on.  Then go through your
CSS and change your background image references to
http://localhost:8000/nameofyourimage.gif.  Now if you try to open your page
the CSS will try to get the image from the mirror server and the mirror
server will simply output the request to your console so you'll be able to
see what order and when the images are requested in on various browsers.

Hope that makes sense.  I think it's definitely worth an investigation as
understanding this could help us optimize pages more.

There's not too much point in theorizing what you think the browser will do
- it's time to put it to the test!  If someone wants to put a test page
together (with images in the CSS that point to
http://localhost:8000/whatever) then I'm up for doing a bit of testing.

Cheers,

Dan W

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Justin French
Sent: 19 July 2004 19:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Does a CSS file load all graphics or only page
relevant ones?

On 20/07/2004, at 2:03 AM, Chris Stratford wrote:

> I cannot provide any proof of this.
> but I believe it would only load it when its displayed.
> the CSS wont parse and execture BANNERPAGE2, unless its caled from 
> Page2.HTML

I too believe this is the way it's *intended* to work, although there 
are some browsers out there which misbehave.  Safari 1.0 was one such 
browser (Mac OS X Jaguar), downloading all background images at once, 
but it was fixed in 1.1 or 1.2 (Panther), so it now only downloads the 
images as needed.

---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au

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RE: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[Dan Webb]

>> If you don't mind there'll be some questions at the end of the week?

Yeah, sure.  Mail me off list if you want.  Unless it's of interest to
everyone else.  Don't worry about the closures article the folder script
doesn't use closures for that effect.  If you want Ill put some comments in
so you can see whats going on.  It's just swapping CSS classes about,
nothing crazy at all.

>> BTW the sample code came out as gibberish on a Mac ie5.2 OS9 & OSX.
I didn't have time to look any deeper though it worked fine on Safari.

Cheers for finding that, I don't have easy access to macs but and IE 5.2 is
always a bit of an annoyance.  I'll get that fixed too.

>> When I clicked an expandable top level menu it appeared as though nothing
happened. I.e. the extra links appeared beneath the page fold.
Which I found disorientating.  I believe screen readers may stumble too.
What marks the difference between expandable links and normal links to the
screen reader. Though perhaps a dynamically added title tag may alleviate
the problem.

I like the idea of adding titles dynamically to inform the user of their
actions.  I'll add that when I get the chance.  As for the other things I
think the best way to tackle screen readers not is to hide the menus using a
screen reader accessible method such as text-indent : -1000em or whatever.
This way a screen reader would just read out all the menu options, hidden or
not.  As for the large screen size thing, I suppose you could have some kind
of visual feedback thing so the user knows when they've opened a folder
(such as the open/closed folder graphic - but obviously thatll be to small
if the user needs the text at 500%.

I agree with you though, for websites I don't think Id use a folder type
navigation system but they are very useful for many web applications (and
widely used) and are more useful because users are normally trained (or are
practiced) in its use.

Thanks for the feedback,

Dan


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Foskett
Sent: 12 July 2004 16:52
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu
based on uls?

Dan,

Sorry I meant it'll take time to absorb the JavaScript closures article.
I'll need to comprehend that before moving to your example.
The techniques used I found very strange. I sort of follow, but failed to
comprehend.
If you don't mind there'll be some questions at the end of the week?

BTW the sample code came out as gibberish on a Mac ie5.2 OS9 & OSX.
I didn't have time to look any deeper though it worked fine on Safari.

On an accessibility note:

Last week I tested the expanding menu (as previous email) with a style sheet
set to 500% font-size.
Someone once told me that lo-vision users have font-sizes set to extremes,
and 500% was the max without horizontal scrolling.
When I clicked an expandable top level menu it appeared as though nothing
happened. I.e. the extra links appeared beneath the page fold.
Which I found disorientating.  I believe screen readers may stumble too.
What marks the difference between expandable links and normal links to the
screen reader. Though perhaps a dynamically added title tag may alleviate
the problem.

Although totally based on feelings and hearsay, my conclusion was to reject
all expanding menus until better informed.


What says the people out there?



mike 2k:)2
 



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RE: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[dan]

It's at a bit of a tangent but why do people think it's better to use a very non
standard .htc behaviour rather than add this behaviour using standard DOM
scripts.  I really dont see the advantage but these HTCs seem to be most
peoples weapon of choice.

Are we not trying to use only standards compliant code? I thought about it a
fair bit and looked into using IE behaviours as a way to deliver Suckerfish but
to me its using is offers no advantages and is non-standard.  

What does everybody else think?

Quoting Gabriel Lago <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> The article that´s now in the homepage of www.alistapart.com could be useful
> if you adapt it to float the ul instead position it vertically, but probably
> better is the "trick" from
> http://www.hszk.bme.hu/~hj130/css/list_menu/hover/, while it´s not exactly
> javascript it works in any browser.
> 
> Hope it helps.
> 
> -Mensaje original-
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre
> de ByteDreams
> Enviado el: lunes, 12 de julio de 2004 16:15
> Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Asunto: Re: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based
> on uls?
> 
> Nice Kyle.  But I was just wondering, when you click on a link on that menu,
> the bullets flash off and on real quick -- is that intentional?
> 
> ByteDreams
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Kyle Barrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu
> based on uls?
> 
> 
> > http://pukupi.com uses an unordered list menu with CSS and JS. I'm only
> > going one sub-level deep but deeper sub-levels are simple enough to
> > implement.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Folks!
> > > Could one of you please point me to a vertical menu solution based on
> > > css/js and semantically structured by ul/li's?
> > > I'd love to have a solution that opens a sublevel-ul when clicked on a
> > > toplevel navigation item. It would need 4-5 sublevels...
> > > I know this is a lot to ask for, but maybe somebody knows a
> > > webstandard - konform solution to that bugger ;)
> > >
> > > Thanks alot in advance!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > mobile web gear | pukupi.com
> >
> > *
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> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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> >
> >
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RE: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[dan]

Hi Mike,

It's not an article as such - Im kind of lazy like that but the code should be
fairly clear (i hope).  Ive just uploaded a new version of the example page
with the code tidied a bit more (ive chopped another few line lines out of it -
even shorter now).  Im planning on submitting this to the WCAG 2.0 Accessible
scripting group so any feedback would be great.

Cheers,

Dan

Quoting Mike Foskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Dan,
> 
> I'm gonna have to spend time digesting that article.
> Thanks for reminding me why I like this forum.
> 
> 
> mike 2k:)2
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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RE: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[dan]

Hi All,

I've done a version of this kind of menu which is considerably more compact than
most of the others Ive seen and is very accessible.  See the entry below:

http://www.danwebb.net/lab/archives/18.html

Example page is here:

http://www.danwebb.net/lab/html/folders3.html

Let me know what you think.  Most of the scripts Ive seen that do this kind of
thing are immense and I do see why.  Mine is quite similar to the one below but
is more compact and has the facility to pre open to a selected node.

Cheers,

Dan



Quoting Mike Foskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Gerhard,
> 
> You could try the method I've used previously.
> The top link expands sub links.  Works with JavaScript off and is
> accessible.
> 
> 
>  "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>
> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; xml:lang="en" lang="en">
> 
>   Expanding menus - Web Semantics
>   
>   
>   function initMenus() {
>   if (!document.getElementsByTagName) return
>   var aMenus = document.getElementsByTagName("li");
>   for (var i = 0; i < aMenus.length; i++) {
>   var mclass = aMenus[i].className
>   if (mclass.indexOf("expandable") > -1) {
>   var submenu = aMenus[i].childNodes
>   for (var j = 0; j < submenu.length; j++) {
>   if (submenu[j].tagName == "A") {
>   submenu[j].onclick =function() {
>   var node = this.nextSibling
>   while (1) {
>   if (node != null) {
>   if 
> (node.tagName == "UL") {
>   var d 
> = (node.style.display == "none")
>   
> node.style.display = (d) ? "block" : "none"
>   
> this.className = (d) ? "expanded" : "expandable"
>   return 
> false;
>   }
>   node = 
> node.nextSibling;
>   }
>   else {
>   return false;
>   }
>   }
>   return false;
>   }
>   submenu[j].className = 
> (mclass.indexOf("open") > -1) ? "expanded" :
> "expandable"
>   }
>   if (submenu[j].tagName == "UL")
>   submenu[j].style.display = 
> (mclass.indexOf("open") > -1) ? "block" :
> "none"
>   }
>   }
>   }
>   }
>   function addLoadEvent(func) {
>   if (!document.getElementById | !document.getElementsByTagName) return
>   var oldonload = window.onload
>   if (typeof window.onload != 'function') {
>   window.onload = func;
>   } else {
>   window.onload = function() {
>   oldonload()
>   func()
>   }
>   }
>   }
>   addLoadEvent(initMenus)
>   
> 
> 
> 
>   Site navigation
>   
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Re: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS

[dan]

Also, on Firebird you can't copy and paste the email address which is a bit
annoying.  Also, it would be a bit annoying to deploy on site where the email
address links are generated dynamically, you'd need to generate a bit of CSS as
well as the link.

All in all, I wouldn't use that method.

Mordechai Peller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Neerav wrote:
> 
> > I havent tried this, but it sounds interesting
> >
> > http://www.phoenity.com/newtedge/hide_email_spambots/
> 
> Two problems: doesn't allow "mailto:"; and doesn't work in IE.
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RE: [WSG] hand coding versus code generators

[dan]

I've been trying to use Dreamweaver for years now but it's never cut it with me.
 Nearly all the annoyances have been ironed out with the new version except for
one major one:

The preview window just doesnt handle heavy use of CSS to layout pages.  For
some reason, the preview window gets it often (but not always) very wrong which
means you end up having to keep refreshing a browser window to see how your
page is rendered in a half decent fashion.  If I've got to do that than I may
as well use a text editor.  In Homesite, the preview window uses the IE control
which is not ideal but at least you know where you stand with it.

TopStyle lets you have both Gecko and IE in the preview window with quick access
keys to all the other browsers you have installed which is by far the best
way.

Does anyone else find this to be a major annoyance?  For me, it's so bad I can't
use the thing even though one or two of the features would be quite useful. On
that subject though, most of Dreamweavers features try to write code for you,
whether it be HTML, JavaScript or serverside code and that is just not a good
idea. 

Quoting Benjamin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I started off in Dreamweaver 3 but quickly moved into handcoding found it
> far better and easier to manipulate pages than with a GUI editor.
> 
> I cant go back to Dreamweaver, its slow its clunky and just doesn't cut it
> like homesite 5+ does.
> 
> 
> Benjamin
> 
> Life through a Polaroid
> www.lifethroughapolaroid.com
> 
> 
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Re: [WSG] IE5 Mac-friendly drop down menus

[dan]

There are two reasons we changed over to using window.attachEvent.  Firstly, its
is a IE only method so in effect it does its own branching for IE and secondly,
you can add multiple events on the same handler which means you could lump
several functions onto the onload handler rather than just the one.  So in
short, it's a little bit neater but its nothing you can't get around.  If you
need to run other functions on window.onload just do sommat like this:

window.onload = function() {
sfHover();
otherThing();
anotherThing();
}

When I get a chance I'll put a note about this on the article as a fair amount
of people have brought it up and the answer is buried in the article comments.

Cheers,

Dan

Quoting Kay Smoljak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> awesome - thanks so much! Does that change have any negative side-effects?
> 
> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:27:32 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > You can make the suckerfish dropdowns work on IE5 Mac by using
> window.onload to
> > trigger the suckerfish function rather than window.attachEvent
> > 
> > So you can use
> > 
> > if (document.all && document.getElementById) window.onload = sfHover;
> > 
> > instead of
> > 
> > if (window.attachEvent) window.attachEvent("onload", sfHover);
> > 
> > That should get it to work.  We found this out very shortly after we
> published
> > the articles.  Sorry about that, we don't have much access to Macs to
> test.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > 
> > Quoting Kay Smoljak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > We've got a client who uses Macs exclusively. Our fave dropdown menu
> > > of the moment, Son of Suckersfish, does not work in IE5 Mac.
> > >
> > > The client is also maintaining the site using Contribute, and our
> > > old-school brute force JavaScript dropdowns (CoolMenus) don't play
> > > nicely with Contribute.
> > >
> > > The original Suckerfish menus *do* work in IE5 Mac, but we need to
> > > have a solution where the top level stays highlighted while the
> > > submenus are being rolled over. We can do this with ugly old-school
> > > JavaScript mouseovers, but it's an ugly bloated solution and I'd
> > > really prefer something a bit cleaner.
> > >
> > > Anyone have any other ideas?
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Re: [WSG] IE5 Mac-friendly drop down menus

[dan]

You can make the suckerfish dropdowns work on IE5 Mac by using window.onload to
trigger the suckerfish function rather than window.attachEvent

So you can use

if (document.all && document.getElementById) window.onload = sfHover;

instead of

if (window.attachEvent) window.attachEvent("onload", sfHover);

That should get it to work.  We found this out very shortly after we published
the articles.  Sorry about that, we don't have much access to Macs to test.

Cheers,

Dan

Quoting Kay Smoljak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi,
> 
> We've got a client who uses Macs exclusively. Our fave dropdown menu
> of the moment, Son of Suckersfish, does not work in IE5 Mac.
> 
> The client is also maintaining the site using Contribute, and our
> old-school brute force JavaScript dropdowns (CoolMenus) don't play
> nicely with Contribute.
> 
> The original Suckerfish menus *do* work in IE5 Mac, but we need to
> have a solution where the top level stays highlighted while the
> submenus are being rolled over. We can do this with ugly old-school
> JavaScript mouseovers, but it's an ugly bloated solution and I'd
> really prefer something a bit cleaner.
> 
> Anyone have any other ideas?
> 
> -- 
> Kay Smoljak
> http://kay.smoljak.com
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RE: [WSG] Interesting reading

[dan]

I think any of us that have worked in big companies know just how slowly things
move in terms of technology.  

Im working on a redesign of a fairly high profile site now and, although the
company Im working for and the client are both reasonably knowledgable about
standards and realise there benefit, the planning for this redesign was done a
good 6-12 months ago (when web standards weren't as widely adopted) and to
introduce it even now would cos enormous amounts of extra cash (for a whole new
load of HTML to be supplied by the design agency then for us to intergrate and
test it with the back end).  

This situation does annoy me alot as it's terrible going to this huge effort of
making a massive new site when I know full well that it's going to need to be
rebuilt again in a year or two but that's the way it is with huge projects like
this.

I'm am starting to see a definate slant towards standards in a lot of the high
profile companies in the UK (the ones I've worked with anyway) so we shouldn't
be discouraged.  I've be involved in a couple of pitches to very large
ecommerce  companies where the main focus of the pitch was the adoption of web
standards and its benefits and the clients seem to be very responsive (although
I interested to see if they put their money where their mouth is.

Has anyone else seen any changes in larger organisations?

Quoting Ian Fenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi Rick,
> 
> > If the biggies ignore the standards scenario, what are *we* doing?
> 
> I suspect the problem with the biggies is normally that they have grown so
> big that making significant changes in the name of web standards isn't as
> big a priority as other business aims, such as increasing sales, etc.
> 
> Oh, and hello. I just joined WSG.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> --
> Ian Fenn
> Director, Chopstix Media Limited
> http://www.chopstixmedia.com/
> 
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Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

[dan]

If we are going to make sites that only work in certain browsers why not just
code to IE's standards and not bother with the obscure browsers like firefox
and  opera.  That way we don't need standards at all!  I can have my marquee
tag back and my ActiveX controls - Ill be able to do all kinds of great things.
 After all nearly everyone uses IE...

Seriously though,  If you are going to take this hardline attitude by
purposefully excluding users of certain browsers then you may as well do what I
was saying above.  Don't loose site of the objective - with standards we are
trying to let more browsers work with our sites not less.  Don't get too bitter
about IE people it's not good for your health.


Quoting Nick Gleitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Tuesday, June 8, 2004, at 08:11  PM, Giles Clark wrote:
> 
> > Isn't it about time we took a more active role in shaping the future of
> > browsers. We could clearly state that as a community we write/develop 
> > for a
> > list of acceptable browsers which comply to standards (we're just 
> > going to
> > have to live wiht IE - market forces). Hopefully non-compliant browsers
> > would simply not be developed, because the pages would break in it. If 
> > a new
> > browser complies then it can see the pages we have developed. No 
> > worries.
> 
> 
> 'We're just going to have to live with IE' - there's the rub.
> 
> Over and over, in these threads, we see developers aiming their work at 
> IE 'because it's the browser used by most people'. And why's that? 
> Because it's integrated with the OS of the most popular computing 
> platform on the planet. Never mind that it, and the OS, are lemons. The 
> 'market forces' are one of the most successful business enterprises in 
> history. IE is here to stay, whether we like it or not.
> 
> Suggesting that we build sites that break in the most used browser and 
> then telling the frustrated site visitors that their software's not up 
> to it is committing our clients to commercial suicide. You'd probably 
> be amazed, and alarmed, at the proportion of people out there that 
> don't even know that they have a choice when it comes to browsers. They 
> use what comes pre-loaded on their PC; they allow auto updates (maybe); 
> they get a new browser when they get a new PC.
> 
> As developers, we need to remember that not all our site visitors spend 
> as many hours in front of their PCs as we do. They don't understand 
> Standards, and they don't want to. Their maxim: 'Don't make me think.' 
> If a site works, fine. Our clients, with our help, can communicate with 
> them, hopefully in a meaningful way. If it doesn't, we've lost them. 
> And they won't be back. All they know, or care about, is that 'this 
> site doesn't work'. There's a hundred mores sites just waiting in the 
> wings to supply whatever yours couldn't.
> 
> The best route to change of a system you don't agree with is from 
> within. Get a job at Microsoft, and bring all the influence to bear 
> that you can to ensure that their next generation browser - codenamed 
> Wombat, or Aardvaark, or whatever it is - is Standards compliant. But 
> let's be realistic: legacy browsers, pain in the arse that they are, 
> aren't going away for a few years yet. So let's make our sites work in 
> them. We're in the communication business, yes?
> 
> (Note: 'Clients' means anyone a site is being built for - including 
> yourself. Doesn't mean money has to change hands.)
> 
> I think that's 3c - Nick
> ___
> Omnivision. Websight.
> http://www.omnivision.com.au/
> 
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Re: [WSG] Re: New suckerfish menus

[dan]

Thanks Noa,

I've been noticing a few weird things with using left.  top appears to be alot
better.  We'll change it..

Quoting east <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I've found a potential CSS incompatibility with the dropdowns.  On my 'About
> 
> Me' page , when the dropdown CSS is
> 
> active, my content containing box doesn't expand vertically to accomodate 
> all the content.  I figured out this was because of the left:-999em rule 
> initially applied to child menus.  I changed the rule to top:-999em and 
> fixed the problem right off.  Just thought you'd like to know. 
> 
> :-) 
> 
>  -Noa 
> 
> 
> Patrick Griffiths writes: 
> 
> > There's discussion of the dropdowns going on here:
> > http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/50.php#comments 
> > 
> > We've tested them on everything we can get our hands on, but
> > unfortunately there seems to be a few little problems, specifically with
> > Safari 1.0 (I think they're fine in 1.2) and IE Mac. 
> > 
> > As far as I can tell, they've still got better browser compatibility
> > than most other methods (such as .htc), but we would like to make them
> > as solid as possible, so if anyone has any pointers, please let me know. 
> > 
> > Patrick 
> > 
> > 
> > Patrick Griffiths (PTG)
> >  http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/
> >  http://www.htmldog.com 
> > 
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Re: [WSG] Suckerfish Galore!

[dan]

Yep, you can do that if you like. Suckerfish works in IE 5 unlike IE7 and the
other .htc solutions though and its obviously alot smaller in file size (10K
for IE7 vs about 12 lines for suckerfish).

Personally, although IE7 is an amazing piece of work its a bit of an overkill
for most sites.  Termendous piece of coding though.

Quoting Manuel González Noriega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> El vie, 21-05-2004 a las 12:11, Patrick Griffiths escribió:
> > Thanks very much for the comments on the Suckerfish Dropdowns article.
> > 
> > There are now more Suckerfish articles up on HTML Dog that explain how
> > you can mimic :hover, :active, :focus and even :target for some
> > interesting results:
> > 
> 
> Patrick, thanks very much for your awesome job.
> 
> I've got one question, combining Suckerfish+IE7 means one can get rid of
> the js part of the menus?
> 
> -- 
> Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web
> (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net 
> 
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