Re: [WSG] standards or confusion?
On 05/12/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to be clear I've understood a concept you mention above, could you show an example of javascript used as layered, non-presentational markup and one that is not? a) a href=javascript:myfunction();Link/a b) a href=page.html onclick=myfunction(); return false;Link/a c) a href=page.html class=javascript_hookLink/a a) is hideous b) is better but still mixes structure and behaviour c) where you will use, for example, the class attribute to add events on runtime, is optimal and non-intrusive See http://www.onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/ -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://logicola.simplelogica.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] standards or confusion?
On 04/12/05, designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bob, please understand any blunt or straightforward response is by no means a personal attack on you, but I feel the rant mode growing inside of me :-) Just over a year ago, I decided to improve my knowledge of CSS, which (although I'd been using it for a few years) seemed a good idea. I joined the CSS list, then this one, I read Jeffrey Zeldman (and a lot of web sites about standards) and everything was rosy in the garden. Of course, I had to overcome the obstacle of thinking in terms of content/presentation and doing away with tables etc, but once I'd got through the trauma of floats etc it all made sense. I imagine that's much the same for all of us. As grown-ups, I assume everybody should be aware that in life and human tasks, things ain't hardly ever rosy in the garden. The ways of the world are subtle and web design, being part of the world, has its number of subtle and complicated issues. Did you expect otherwise? That said, may I remember everybody that using for example HTML 4.01 + CSS 2.1 as standards, together with best practices as semantic markup, is well regarded all across the universe. Even people who think that XHTML is ready for prime time won't frown upon a HTML Strict DOCTYPE, methinks. Some people will frown upon XHTML Doctypes. That's because there's a theoretical discussion among us, practicioners of this craft. That's not a headache. That's a natural part of any art, craft or science. And frankly, the issues involved, whichever your take, are not really that hard to grasp. A couple of hours reading some blog posts and specs will give you a clear panorama of the problems and 'hot issues' being discussed. I find very amusing people who want to be 'future-proof' but don't want to bother with 'mime types and all that complicated stuff'. If someone really can't, or don't want to, deal with the current level of complexity, I claim she's hardly 'future-proof', because that mindset, the 'I want easy answers' mentality, is gonna crash hard with XHTML 2, XForms, etc. And sorry if you thougth that doing what guru X is doing was gonna save you from taking your own decissions or doing your homework. It doesn't work this way, never has and never will. Zeldman can't take you from the hand all the time. No one can. Some I won't tell you which option is better. I'm just warning you that complaining yourself away from the learning process isn't gonna work. Good web design is beautiful, but it's hard. The more the possibilities grow, the higher the complexity of the tasks. It happens with everything. It's up to the individual to consider if it's worth the effort or a career shift is in order :-) Thanks for putting up with my rant. Excuse my english (I hope it's at least comprehensible) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://logicola.simplelogica.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] standards or confusion?
On 04/12/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. A friend just got back into the web design game after a long time away. He sent me his site: pure HTML 2.0, no doctype lots of tables and the usual tag soup. I mentioned to him that things had changed and he should get with the modern way of doing things. To his various questions as to why, I gave all the right answers, but in the end he said if it works, why change? I viewed his site in all my various MAC WIN browsers, it worked just fine in all of them. Are you asking for the benefits of standards-based design or the ROI of it? It's on like 100 trillions of documents and books written since 2001. Give him a Zeldman or Cederholm book for Christmas :-) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://logicola.simplelogica.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] standards or confusion?
On 04/12/05, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So is the core of the issue not designing with CSS vs tables, rather than with the standards themselves? Yes, there's an ongoing confusion between standards compliance (validation) and observance of good practices (css layouts, etc.) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://logicola.simplelogica.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Table grid to CSS Grid
On 07/10/05, Helmut Granda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to turn a table grid into a full CSS grid? It's possible (kind of) but not desireable. I have been looking for tutorials or some one who covers the subject, but most places talk about using tables... Something like this | a | b | c | d | | e | f | g | h | | I | j | k | l | This is just an example, in reality ABCD can be the title of the columns and E-L can be the content. That's a table by nature and you should mark it up precisely so. -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://logicola.simplelogica.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Table grid to CSS Grid
On 07/10/05, Helmut Granda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your feedback guys. So those who insist in creating table-less layouts can not be done so all the time, there are times when you HAVE to use tables or it wont work. Would that statement be correct? Table-less layouts are possible. But that doen't imply the page will or should be table-free. If inside those CSS layouts tabular data must be displayed, that's what TABLEs are for. The idea is stop mis-using tables, not stop using them. Is it even wroth it to fight to transform that kind of content into table-less? Just let paragraphs be ps, headings be hxs and tabular data be table and everything will go just fine :-) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://logicola.simplelogica.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Design in 2005
Still... can't they just stick to CSS implementations? This solution provides the exact same effect: Except that when you're dealing with higly dynamic content (say, a weblog or a news site), tweaking the css 10 times an hour becomes problematic. This is a good article on the how and when of Flash Replacement http://usabletype.com/articles/2004/how-and-when-to-use-sifr/ -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Design in 2005
The headings could be defined in a dynamic CSS file... for example: .. I'd go into more detail about generating the contents of the DataSet, but you get the idea :) I do, but you still have to create the images each time. You can also automate that but by the time you're done with it you could have implemented siFR like 57 times over. Like I said, (and keep in mind I'm pretty much the 'flash content sucks' type) I think there are some scenarios where siFR has a legit use. The link I sent sums them up nicely. -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] A new year challenge - was [ Web Design in 2005]
Can anyone who is really interested in web 'design' say that a site such as: http://www.fosterandpartners.com/internetsite/Flash.html 'sucks'? It certainly isn't standards material (it doesn't even have a doctype!) but the 'concept' is glorious. A mass of information, all available via a small 'box' which fits in an 800 by 600 window. Compare that with a typical cluttered 3-column layout with a graphics banner, text all over the place etc etc. One man's 'glorious' it's another man's 'unimpressive' i guess - If you fancy the layout and are impressed by a 800x600 window, you can do it in HTML. There's nothing in CSS that confines you to cluttered 3 columns layouts - Accesibility-wise, you can't make the text biggerm 'nuff said. (I just called my father to check it and he said the text is too small for him. He's not more visually impaired than your average 55year-old dad :) - If you fancy the transitions, they are most definitely doable with Js and xmlhttp Maybe in the future (CSS 8.3/XML v10.6 :-) we'll be able to achieve stuff like this, but in the meantime . . . We are able to achieve much better stuff than this right now Can anyone of 'us' do this using purely valid xhtml and CSS? - that's your mission for 2005! I hope to be doing much better than that, and still be easily outskilled by many members of this list :) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Template StyleSheet
Trying to find examples, resources that define how StyleSheets should be organised. There's been dicussion of how to arrange your classes and IDs and I'm just wondering, what about base generic styles that don't need to be referenced by class or ID... Does anyone out there start with a template they use for all their sites and modify it? Not that I've used personally, but there's two css template systems of which I'm aware: - CSS Sandwich http://www.opinios.com/archives/73.php - Style from the tigris repository http://style.tigris.org/ -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] It's so frustrating. Webstandars, accesibility and Firefox as a sales argument.
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:06:51 +0100, Kristof Rutten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I totally agree. But then it comes to budget. And your clients ASKS why your offer is quoted higher. Then you have the explaining to do. I don't really get why your quote should be higher and don't really like that thought as it promotes the idea that standards are hard. If you are proficient with your art, having an average couple of validation errors per page, because of a typo or an unclosed li doesn't really slow things down or raise the project's quote much more than parse errors do when a good programmer is coding PHP or ASP or whatever. -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Adobe Forum comment on CSS in visual editors
Ron, it is clear to me that the individuals who designed this application were/are not hard core CSS scripters. Sorry, but there is a counter-argument here. It is clear to me that the people who designed the CSS standard were entirely unconcerned about how it might ever be handled by visual editors, since none of them actually used visual editors, nor did they even consider that they might be or should be important. The only model which interested them was, prepare markup in a text editor, write CSS rules in a text editor, check result in browser. So, what's so wrong with visual editors? The way I read this, Macromedia Adobe are actually selling something that is by its very nature defective. I feel so fine :) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:59:58 +1100, Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm That's an easy one. The page's been served as text/plain. Firefox is doing The Right Thing :) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] choosing encoding, charset and using special characters
[UTF-8] it will be stored correctly and rendered as expected, as long as you remember to put a meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html; charset=utf-8 in your page's head. Actually, what you should be doing is getting the server to send the right content-type header. Meta elements are not authoritative and in fact lead many people to confusion when they are superceded by the server headers. -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] choosing encoding, charset and using special characters
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:51:24 -, Richard Ishida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hola Manuel, Dejan, There are pros and cons to using the HTTP header to declare the encoding. At the W3C we recommend that you always declare encoding inside the document, whether or not you use the HTTP header. Unlike something like language declaration, the meta statement for character encoding declarations is very widely recognised, and is the only in-document means to declare encoding for HTML. If serving XHTML you need to also consider the pros and cons of using the XML declaration. I stand corrected, I thought it was a much more clear scenario, where server headers were The Right Way and meta was almost irrelevant. I'll read those links carefully. -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] linking a div
Amit Karmakar wrote: Howdy All, I have a div a href=http://www.getfirefox.com; title=Get FireFoxdiv id=firefox/div/a Inline elements, such as a, can't contain block-level elements, such as div -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] skip to content
john wrote: So, what do others think? A. skip to content B. skip to main content C. skip navigation D. Putting content first, navigation later and a using a Skip to navigation link -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Kim Kruse wrote: Hi, First of all... I'm sorry if this is off topic. I've been telling people (the few who asked me and through my website) to use (valid) xhtml because it a W3C recommendation, it's device independent, (valid) xhtml can be processed by an XML parser, better accessibility, less code, faster processing of code in modern browsers, forward compatibility etc. I guess that's the standard opinion on xhtml or am I completely of track here? Hi Kim, that's a hot issue in the web standards world. Basically, i think the main points can be presented as: XHTML real, present and unique features: - Ready for XML parsing - Ready for mixing with other XML syntaxes, such MathML. The canonical example being is Jaques Distler's weblog. XHTML not-so-clear feature: - Forward-compatibility. Some say it's a legit advantage over HTML, some say, since valid HTML is so easily tranformed into valid XHTML, it's a draw. XHTML myths: - Faster loads. - More accesible 'per se' than Strict HTML. It's not. XHTML problems: - The mime-type issues. - Zero-tolerance for markup errors (if served with the right mime-type) So, if you've done your homework and take an informed decision, it pretty much comes down to a matter of project requirements + personal taste. Some people see the point in using XHTML, regardless the problems. Some people don't. Myself, i'm sticking with HTML 4.01 Strict, until necessity or the will to experiment force me otherwise. Check this http://annevankesteren.nl/archives/2004/08/xhtml for a much more useful explanation than mine :) HTH - Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Chris Hughes wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Manuel González Noriega [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes XHTML problems: - Zero-tolerance for markup errors Surely that is a benefit rather than a problem? Again, higly subjective: it's neat for marchine-parsing but IMHO it's overkill to learn that you've made a teenyweeny mistake in your blog post markup by watching the bloody thing crash before your eyes As i said, it probably comes down to what are your use cases. I stand on the camp of those who think that in the vast majority of the real-world use cases today, XHTML is not necessary. Besides, HTML 4.01 Strict has a vintage/retro look that's really cool :o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Clayton Lengel-Zigich wrote: Again, higly subjective: it's neat for marchine-parsing but IMHO it's overkill to learn that you've made a teenyweeny mistake in your blog post markup by watching the bloody thing crash before your eyes Yet with each crash and burn of your blog and each little mistake you fix the more and more aware of those little mistakes you become and the cleaner your code becomes. Sure it's a pain when you forget a simple bit of markup but more often than not it's easily fixed. Often, markup errors, like natural language errors, are most likely typos than anything else. Therefore, i don't really learn anything from them and they are just a PITAs I see your point, of course and i still think it's a matter of specific scenarios + personal taste ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Shane Helm wrote: All code of every web page should be validated. Any errors need to be corrected. If your typo is in a tag, then it could produce undesirable results. We should all make sure our code on every web page we create has no errors, whether simple typos or forgotten closing tags; whether we use HTML or XHTML. If you live by this standard, then XHTML is a viable coding option. I pretty much agree, but, generally speaking, if a change to the markup is made on Friday, and it is somehow invalid, i'd rather have it as is until the Monday validation than showing a terrible fatal error yellow screen to users during the weekend. And keep in mind than i'm thinking more about user submitted input, which is much more wild and frequent than any webpage lifecycle. Anyhow, I'm a semantic and valid HTML freak, so i'm already converted :o) But, as I said, I don't really see the point of XHTML for general information delivery today. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Manuel González Noriega wrote: Often, markup errors, like natural language errors, are most likely typos than anything else. Therefore, i don't really learn anything from them You learn that you should validate anything before making it live (just like you'd spell-check and proofread anything before going to publication in the print world, for instance). ;) Spll chckres? Whats' taht? :o) Seriously, I don't want to come across as a lousy coding apologist, I just was pointing that error-handling was one of the main differences between XHTML and HTML (if XHTML is served correctly) . I'm all for obsessive validation, but nowdays I'm more for obsessive validation against the HTML Doctype. I wanna share a link, found via Bloglines, that's very pro-XHTML. How fair and balanced is that? http://www.kurafire.net/articles/case-for-xhtml -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] OL or UL? It´s rigth?
Nick Gleitzman wrote: Close, but no cigar. Make that ul liI love nested lists! ol liBut close that li tag!/li /ol /li /ul N ;-) Oops, the dangerous life of the fast-typer :D -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Can someone help me figure out some semantic mark-up, please?
El dom, 29-08-2004 a las 00:49, Seona Bellamy escribió:
Thanks for the help, guys. I've gone with the dl as suggested by
Mordechai, and the script that was in Zeldman's book (sorry, Mordechai, but
it seemed like a slightly simpler, more flexible way of doing it - or maybe
it's just that I've combed through it so often that I actually understand
what it does!).
The script, for those who don't have the book, is as follows:
function toggle(targetID) {
if (document.getElementById) {
target = document.getElementById(targetID);
if (target.style.display == none) {
target.style.display = ;
Shouldn't that be
target.style.display = block;
?
--
Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web
(+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net
escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/
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RE: [WSG] Can someone help me figure out some semantic mark-up, please?
El lun, 30-08-2004 a las 09:49, Seona Bellamy escribió: Shouldn't that be target.style.display = block; Err... which one? The first one or the second one? Confuzzled, My fault entirely, i trimmed a little too happily :) The second one, as if the display is set to none you most likely want to toggle it to block -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Can someone help me figure out some semantic mark-up, please?
El vie, 27-08-2004 a las 10:20, Seona Bellamy escribió: Hi guys, I'm hoping that this doesn't count as off topic, but I need some help What I need to do is have the following sort of setup: Category - Subcategory - Section - Product - Product - Product - Section - Product - Product - Subcategory - Section - Product - Product Category - Subcategory ...etc... How fancy do you want it? I'd say it's simply a set of nested unordered lists (w or w/o headings), but of course you could have a blast with definition lists :) Two sound and simple options here: a) Nested ul ulliCategory ul liSubcategory ul liSection ul liProduct A/li li Product B/li /ul /li !-- section end -- /ul !-- section list end -- /li !-- subcat end -- /ul !-- subcat list end -- /li !-- cat end -- /ul !-- cat list end -- b) Headings + Nested ul hxCategory/hx ul liSubcategory ul liSection ul liProduct A/li li Product B/li /ul /li !-- section end -- /ul !-- section list end -- /li !-- subcat end -- /ul !-- subcat list end -- As for the dynamic part, take a look at: http://www.kryogenix.org/code/browser/aqtree2/ http://www.danwebb.net/lab/archives/18.html -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PHP is stopping my page validating as xhtml 1.0 Strict
El mié, 25-08-2004 a las 10:39, Steven Clark escribió: I've got a page with a small logon form, nothing major. It has a couple of small hurdles for validating as XHTML 1.0 strict though. The first is that XHTML doesn't support the name attribute, so of course my php that processes this login feature won't work with id instead of name. name is only deprecated in XHTML for some elements like form, so you can continue using name in every element within form without trouble. Secondly, the page won't validate as XHTML 1.0 strict because of something in the said php code. Mmmm. Check this page http://martin.f2o.org/php/session -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] has h1 to be first and only first?
Hi all, as per subject: would you say an h1 has to be the very first element on the page? I have an ul containing a couple of 'skip to nav' links, currently under the h1 element but i think they should precede the h1 and be the first elements on the page. URL: http://www.simplelogica.net/logicola/ -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] has h1 to be first and only first?
El mié, 11-08-2004 a las 13:48, Lee Roberts escribió: There is no requirement that the H1 be the first thing on the page. There is a requirement that if heading tags be used that the H1 be the first heading tag used on the page. You can find that spelled out in the HTML Mobile standards, the ISO standards and in the WCAG 1.0 Checkpoint 3.5 Guidelines. Thanks Lee, it sure helps. In fact i had my brain kind of turned off because of course i use often some elements before the h1, like container divs etc... But i guess i've been thinking of the header/logo as h1 of the page for so long that i felt weird for a while putting actual content before that. I can now see it is perfectly logical if the content doesn't fall into the h1 content-domain. Thanks again -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PHP GET session ID's prevent validation?
El mar, 10-08-2004 a las 02:01, Joshua Street escribió:
Hi all,
snip
You'll note that should be amp; in order to validate...
Has anyone else had this happen to them before? Any suggestions are
welcome.
Hey Joshua,
try this
ini_set('arg_separator.input','amp;');
--
Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web
(+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net
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Re: [WSG] I've done it again ...
El mar, 06-07-2004 a las 15:45, Michael Kear escribió: I've lost a reference to another excellent article I read about how to guarantee that two or three columns will go all the way to the bottom of the page, regardless of the length of any of the columns.Can anyone help? Could it be the Faux Columns method? http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fauxcolumns/ How do the rest of you handle that? Do you have a blog? Blogmarks. That way i can keep track of interesting links while sharing them with the world. Other people will suggest surely a service like http://del.icio.us/ or plain old bookmarks :) -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] XHTML Transitional - Strict
El jue, 17-06-2004 a las 11:00, Jamie Mason escribió: Hello all, I was hoping one of you could tell me, or know any url's that would be helpful on moving from XHTML Transitional to Strict. This is quite relevant :) http://www.7nights.com/asterisk/archives/xhtml_10_strict_not_ready_for_prime_time.php -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Interesting reading
El lun, 14-06-2004 a las 12:00, Marc Greenstock escribió: A friend of mine sent me this link; http://www.decloak.com/Dev/CSSTables/CSS_Tables_05.aspx He loves to play devils advocate so he just refuses to adopt current standards, it's ok though cause he's the competition. Happy reading :) cite # Another thing with the IMAGE tag. Do we really need LONGDESC tag, i.e.LONG DESCRIPTION? Can't the screen reader already know the length of the description in the first place before reading it? Just have the screen reader have a default number of words to read in the first place and ask the user if they want to continue reading or tell them that it's so many words long and then ask them a question whether to read through it. /cite cite Screen readers think they are SMART by just reading the Heading tags first e.g. H1. However, web designers and developers rarely use H1 or header tags anyway. What screen readers should do is automatically read text that is BIGGER than the text below it or around it. How hard could that be to program? Not hard at all. Just have have the screen reader do a text size comparison just like the browser does. If this text is much bigger than the surrounding text, then that's what the screen reader should be reading first as the header /cite This guy is either joking or very close to insanity :) I mean one thing is as reasoned argument pro layout tables and other is a nonsensical rant full of non-sequiturs. -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Make em' pay for IE
El vie, 04-06-2004 a las 12:59, Mordechai Peller escribió: As far as non-IE extras, they should be exactly that--extra. A site need to have a 100% lever of functionality and a 100% look in IE, but in a compliant browser, maybe the look could be 110%? Users would only know they were missing something if they saw the site in a compliant browser. These are features which would otherwise not be included because IE can't handle it, so adding them for free only improves the site without any cost involved (beyond a few extra bytes). FYI, that concept is called MOSE and described here http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2003/06/25/mose/ -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65http://simplelogica.net escribe en Logicola http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish Galore!
El vie, 21-05-2004 a las 12:11, Patrick Griffiths escribió: Thanks very much for the comments on the Suckerfish Dropdowns article. There are now more Suckerfish articles up on HTML Dog that explain how you can mimic :hover, :active, :focus and even :target for some interesting results: Patrick, thanks very much for your awesome job. I've got one question, combining Suckerfish+IE7 means one can get rid of the js part of the menus? -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Help with Float
El mié, 19-05-2004 a las 21:43, Brian Foy escribió: Hi Sean, Looks like you have to clear those floats. Try adding a div with clear: both; just below the last column. Brian Or this nicer method (i don't know where i first read about this, excuse me if it was on this list :) Clearing without structural markup http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...
El vie, 14-05-2004 a las 08:55, Nick Lo escribió: Although as I'd already posted today... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php After the 'there's a place for i and b' and 'there's a place for layout tables' posts, i feel i should be writing my own 'there's a place for font' post :o) -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
El vie, 14-05-2004 a las 15:40, Tonico Strasser escribió: Barbara Dozetos wrote: Hello all, Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. I would say that tabular calendar data is a classic candidate for table markup, you'll need some advanced table styling skills: Agreed. For real nice styling, see Mena's calendar http://www.dollarshort.org/days/ -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] reference entity year end with ; ???
El mié, 12-05-2004 a las 17:03, Vaska.WSG escribió: 7.Line 50, column 40: cannot generate system identifier for general entity year td class=calndrHdra href=?month=4year=2004a=Homelaquo;/a/td Oi vey, wondering what I'm doing with this stuff anymore... Can somebody shed some light on these messages? Convert your '' to the amp; entity (a bunch of similar emails are heading your way in this very moment :) -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: EMBED tag
El mar, 11-05-2004 a las 22:54, east escribió: No, that only happens if there's no doctype. Or, if the DOCTYPE is somehow wrong. A (in)famous example are 'relative URI' DOCTYPES -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Forms, labels headers
El dom, 09-05-2004 a las 05:56, Bert Doorn escribió: Really, what is the practical (as opposed to philosophical) difference between the two methods? Hi Bert, are you asking why using tables for layout is stupid? :-) http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/ -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] When the mix of visual appearance and meaning goes really bad
El vie, 07-05-2004 a las 17:37, Andy Budd escribió: Manuel González Noriega wrote: Well it's pretty tricky picking between two wrongs but i'd say wrong named classes are much less serious than wrongfully marked elements. Why is marking something up as italic wrong though? For one thing, it fixes the element to a medium (visual). If you 'span'n'style' it, you get back the freedom to export the meaning to different mediums. It's not wrong like it's a crime or unethical or something. It's just that every example i've seen of 'a fair use of i' could/should be reformulated. In every example (foreign language, scientific names, etc..) when someone tells me they want to mark something up as italic, i think 'no, you want to mark it up as belonging to a certain class *and then* saying that certain class should appear as italic. I'm aware is a fairly obscure technical-philosophical issue and that one man's 'true way' could be seen as 'markupbation' by others :-) It may go against your belief of separating content from display, but it's a valid (x)html element isn't it? Of course! If it wouldn't validate that would be quite the end of the discussion, wouldn't it? Still, a validator won't tell you if you're using the right tag for the job. That's a job for collective brainstormings like this. Seems like using i or span class=italic are pretty much the same. In fact you could argue that using li is better because it's a standard html element (rather than a user defined class) and will thus be understood by more systems. The incorrect naming of the span class is what it's making it pretty much the same. If the name of the class would describe the function rather than the visual presentation, then there would be a clear difference. I'd still argue that the purpose of the i element is to make something italic, so that's exactly how it should be used (not saying that's the only way to make something italicw). Using it to make something bold however would be a shooting offence. The main issue is choosing between considering i - a first-class citizen of the (x)HTML world - a piece of junk that smells bad and doesn't really has the right to be in a modern markup job, even though it hasn't been yet erased from the specs. (just kidding, i, i just think your time has passed. No offense) Personally, i do it because i was told me girls dig semantic coding. You mean they don't? Some do. However some like it the old fashioned way. Girls who mix content and presentation are a sure mess to get undressed. BTW, sometimes i feel way beyond my written english skills, excuse me if my sentences sound aadvark sometimes. -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] When the mix of visual appearance and meaning goes really bad
Hi, i want to comment on Matthew Thomas' 'When semantic markup goes bad' http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2004/05/02/b-and-i Basically, i think his main thesis is plain wrong cite These arent exhaustive lists, but as you can see, some reasons for using bold and italics dont have their own semantic HTML elements. This is why b and i exist/cite No, that's not why b and i exist. That's why span exists. The way i see it, if you need an new html element that is not available, you use 'span+appropiate identifier' If you need a vector element, you compensate for the lack of it with span class=vectorR2/span and then style it to bold. If you want to quote something on a foreign language and want it to appear in italics, you don't (as MPT proposes) mark it up as imi mama me mima/i, you mark it up with span class=foreign lang=esmi mama me mima/span and then style it to your liking If you have some time to read his post and comment on it, i'd really appreciate it :-) -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelgica, construccin web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] When the mix of visual appearance and meaning goes really bad
El jue, 06-05-2004 a las 15:58, Tonico Strasser escribió: I think Matthew is pointing out that many people are using (or suggesting) strong where b (or a styled span) would be better. He doesn't say that you must use b but explains why this element is in the specs. I think he's on with some kind of fallacy where if you agree that if you agree that 1) strong and em generally supercede b and i 2) strong and em are used incorrectly sometimes (we're all ok with the argument to this point, methinks, but it's so obvious it's pretty useless, everything is used incorrectly sometimes) then you must agree that 3) wherever strong and em are used incorrectly, b and i are to be used. It's proposition 3) i have issues with. But it could be me having a bad hair day ;) OTOH span class=boldfoo/span is a lot of code compared to bbar/b. That's not fair, you are comparing bar to foo and everybody prefers a bar over almost anything :D -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] When the mix of visual appearance and meaning goes really bad
El jue, 06-05-2004 a las 17:30, Andy Budd escribió: I think the article seems reasonable. I do not but that's a matter of opinion of course :) Some people would argue that what you should do is wrap the element in a span, create a class and then style the class in the stylesheets. This is reasonable if the class has some meaning (e.g. author). However most people would just create a class called italic. By doing this, you are no longer really separating presentation from structure, so why not use i? Well it's pretty tricky picking between two wrongs but i'd say wrong named classes are much less serious than wrongfully marked elements. I think it's very good practice to code semantically. However I often find myself creating a class solely to position an element (float it left lest say). I usually try to give the element some semantic meaning (like col1) however it's always tempting to simply go for the easy option of floatLeft. Are you saying that we are all guilty of laziness once or twice in a while and that we don't follow good practices all of the time? Boy, i'm glad i'm not the only one ;) Still, i don't think that's quite the same than writing a post about using an element in a way that's not the way it should be used. Whereas I can see a good reason to use semantic HTML, is there really much point in worrying if your ID's/classes have semantic meaning. Becasue they are user defined, there probably is never going to be a time when that information will be used by another machine. Personally, i do it because i was told me girls dig semantic coding. You mean they don't? Seriously, the issue of relevant class/ID naming is interesting and important but Matthew proposes a whole different (and IMHO wrong) thing -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] When the mix of visual appearance and meaning goes really bad
El jue, 06-05-2004 a las 18:08, Peter Firminger escribió: I'm sure lot's of people probably use em when they aren't really emphasising something, but simply wanting to make something italic. Absolutely! In natural science (specifically speaking about species names here) Italics are the way to present the scientific name (genus species pair or senior synonym like iThorunna australis/i or even just the species or shorthand variations), not emphasis. I think there is a good argument for using i here as it isn't ambiguous in any way that I want italics. In this case em is just semantically wrong and i simply should not be deprecated. I'm sure there are times when i is the right element to use, but your example is not one :) If the markup means 'look, this is a genus species pair', please make it tell so: 1) seniorsynonymThorunna Australis/seniorsynonym 2) span class=seniorsynonimThorunna Australis/seniorsynonym 3) iThorunna Australis/i 1) is not available to current browsers without involving extra technology 2) is nice, clean and optimal in the current day and time. 3) is pretty useless But in most cases we certainly don't need this as we are marking up text for the sake of displaying text, not extraction for any other reason by any other agent. The extra bytes are a total waste of bandwidth and when you get to heavily used repositories of text-based factsheets like http://amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/specfam.htm or http://seaslugforum.net/species.htm it can make quite a difference in speed and money. First, i don't think we should discuss specific cases. If you need to save bandwith by using i instead of span.class, it's entirely up you of course. We're talking general principles/best practices I don't think (given that we are using clean, well marked code) that there's a clear and present global need for saving bandwith by switching from span.class - Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Trying to add a back to top link
El sáb, 24-04-2004 a las 13:41, theGrafixGuy escribió: I think I have the right track here if I can figure out how to write it??? I know that one can't stick php in a tag like that:-/ a href=? $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'] ?#top Yes, you can. You are only lacking the echo part a href=? echo $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'] ?#top or the shortcut notation a href=?=$_SERVER['PHP_SELF'] ?#top -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] A discussion leads to an idea - Dynamic CSS!
El vie, 23-04-2004 a las 11:20, theGrafixGuy escribió: Has anyone ever toyed with this idea before and if so what were the results??? Oh, yes. Some fine samples: http://1976design.com/blog/archive/2004/02/03/php-dynamic-css/ http://richardathome.no-ip.com/index.php?article_id=106 -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] CSS 3-col draft: Request for opinion
El mar, 20-04-2004 a las 12:41, Bert escribió: I am using the background bullet technique. Can't help you on the server issue (other than to make the image bigger so the server WILL serve it) but what is the background bullet technique? Can't you use a list-style-image? Inconsistencies in the render of list-style-image make its use not to easy. A common workaround is to set the style to list-style-type:none and use a bullet image as the background to the li element (1). At least, i think he's talking about that, didn't catch the original message :) (1) http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listutorial/introduction.htm -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Problem and can't validate
El mié, 07-04-2004 a las 05:16, Taco Fleur escribió: Sorry I can't validate my content, due to it being on the intranet and it's a CMS that most likely will not validate anyway. FYI, the Web Developer extension for Firebird/Firefox has a handy 'Validate local HTML' option that will help you with localhost pages and the like. http://chrispederick.myacen.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/ -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] hiding clear:both ?
El vie, 02-04-2004 a las 15:31, Vaska.WSG escribió:
I hate to ask a dumb question, but I can't find any information about
this altough I'm pretty sure I've read about this someplace.
What I'm trying to do is use
div class=clnbsp;/div
.cl {
clear:both;
}
We use to do
hr /
hr {clear:both;display:none}
if you need some visibles hr's, try hr class=clear /
--
Manuel González Noriega
Simplelógica, construcción web
URL: http://simplelogica.net
EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65
Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/
/pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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*
RE: [WSG] What's wrong with this page??
El dom, 28-03-2004 a las 14:58, Michael Kear escribió: Is anyone giving any consideration to cataloguing all those articles? Perhaps an index on a web page or something? snip Glad you solved your problem. I'd say if you bookmark one or two 'entry points' and surf from there, every useful resource is at most a couple of jumps away. CSS info is pretty well catalogued (in an emergent, decentralized, Web's own way, of course :) My proposed 'starter kit' mini-set of CSS bookmarks http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ http://www.cssvault.com/resources.php -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Shorthand for color
El lun, 22-03-2004 a las 09:18, theGrafixGuy escribió: Does anyone know of a calculator or reference one can use to translate hex into triple hex? Referring here to using #FFF instead of #FF for white as an example. AFAIK, the shorthand notation will only work with twin pairs of digits (00 = 0, AA = A, 55 = 5, etc) There's no other rules, so a calculator is not really needed. Additionaly, are their any issues or bugs known in regards to using said color method? So far my experiments are showing up just fine, but I only run the latest browsers (Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, IE6) I've never worried about the backwards compatibiliy of the method, but that only shows you've put some more thought into it than me. It's a pretty good question. Greeting from a definitely-non-aussie list member (but my english already shows that :-) -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Why deprecate FIRc ?
In the 'it's better to ask and seem a fool for a minute...' spirit. http://www.stopdesign.com/present/sxsw2004/goodbad/?no=6 I've read Doug Bowman deprecation of FIR techniques and while i can agree in the failure of both traditional FIR and the 'text-indent' variant, I cannot see the point in rejecting the absolute positioning of the img method. If the method fails on img transparency, well, don't make them transparent. What' so serious about that to deprecate it too? -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Open source Relevant CSS tab?
El lun, 15-03-2004 a las 04:04, Tim escribió: it basically provides all the relevant CSS that affects any given element, based on where you put the cursor within the code view of the markup. AFAIK, no other tool has this feature (correct me if I'm wrong). Sounds to me like the 'Show computed styles' bookmarklet http://www.web-graphics.com/mtarchive/000846.php -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] A kinda Simplequiz
Hi all, How would you mark up an interview? a) dl dtSo, how are you doing?/dt ddFine, thanks for asking/dd /dl b) p class=qSo, how are you doing?/p p class=aDidn't you just ask me that on a)/p c) hxSo, how are you doing?/hx pPlease, stop it./p d) Other This afternoon, at work, we were feeling risky and went for a) and i'm curious if you think it's fine, plain wrong or so-so. Thanks for your feedback :) -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Semantic vs Accessibile markup
El vie, 05-03-2004 a las 00:54, Hugh Todd escribió: Tonico, I need to support IE/Mac, so what would you recommend me to do? Did you have a look at this one, posted by Manuel González Noriega? It seems to work in IE 5 Mac, for whatever reason: http://kalsey.com/tools/csstabs/index.php?section=2 FWIW, yesterday we put kalsey's tabs to work at http://derallyes.com (homepage,top box) The site's in spanish, but that shouldn't make checking the tabs functionality any harder ;) Now, what we'd really like to have is to enhance the tabs for js enabled UA's by using js to swap the ul's visibility. Anyone has a pointer to some howto's/articles on this? I'm not that skilled at javascript... yet O:-) -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Semantic vs Accessibile markup
El jue, 04-03-2004 a las 03:38, Jackie Reid escribió: And don't get me started on dls ;) this bit seems to have been swept under the carpet.. I'm really interested to hear what is wrong with dl's for navigation as, to my pedantic and not so up there with css sort of a mind, it actually seems like a pretty darn good idea to me. Whooops, my bad english has betrayed me, it seems :) I didn't mean there is anything wrong with dl's, i was just teasing about how we were talking about the complexities of nested lists for nav elements and no one had still suggested the somewhat subtler dl's, thus 'upping the semantic ante' Myself, i really like the idea of secondary nav as dd of the primary nav 'dt' term, although i've never really played with it yet. Sometimes i grow way too self-satisfied with my english skills. Sorry about the confusion and i hope to have been clearer now. -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Semantic vs Accessibile markup
El mié, 03-03-2004 a las 19:05, Tonico Strasser escribió: Thanks Manuel, I wonder if version b is less accessible or standards compliant than version a. It would be much easier for me to use version b. If it validates, it's not less standard compliant than anything. As for accessibilty, i would say that nested ul link together parent and children terms. Is it just fashionable to use uls for navigation? Which standard says that a navigation should be a list? There's no standards about semantic writing. It all comes down to general consensus, good practices and ultimately designer's judgement. For me, navigation bars are unordered lists because they *are lists* of terms. I think they could be ols also. And don't get me started on dls ;) Who benefits from more semantic /navigation/? Maybe a XSLT designer? Call me a pervert but i get a kick from elegant html sources :D -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] double quoting
El mié, 25-02-2004 a las 04:24, Justin French escribió:
Personally, I've been using single quotes for a few years, because it
makes echo's in PHP a lot easier:
echo div id='foo'{$bah}/div;
is a lot easier to read than
echo div id=\foo\{$bah}/div;
I tend to single-quote the whole PHP statement, that allows me to
double-quote the attributes and keep it highly readable. I also find
concatenation+syntax coloring very helpful
echo 'div id=foo'.$bah.'/div';
--
Manuel González Noriega
Simplelógica, construcción web
URL: http://simplelogica.net
EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65
Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
El mié, 25-02-2004 a las 11:40, JW escribió: Ooo I see! Thanks Andy / Martin! Hmm any ideas in tweaking Dreamweaver to work with standards? As for open target in new window, if I want a new window, how can I achieve it with strict? When switching DOCTYPEs isn't an option, try the method suggested here http://www.sitepoint.com/article/1041 . -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] IE6 and 3 pixel out
El mié, 25-02-2004 a las 13:21, Paul Ross escribió: Hello folks, I have a fully valid XHTML transitional page that performs perfectly in the standards compliant browsers but refuses to behave in IE. The page is here: http://www.skyrocket.com.au/Concepts/Artform/index.html In IE 6 for example there is a 3 pixel gap formed between the graphics and the right edge of the div. You can also see this happening over on the left hand side on the shot of the building. Can someone with better knowledge of how to hack for IE see what is going on? Many thanks from Mr Exasperated. Take a look at http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
El mié, 25-02-2004 a las 15:02, JW escribió: Line 89, column 11: there is no attribute name (explain...). form name=service id=service method=post action= form_service/dodosmail.p Yes, in Strict there's no name attribute for the form element, use id instead. Note that name *IS NOT* deprecated for form elements such as input, just for the form element itself (this is a common misunderstanding) ^ Line 91, column 88: document type does not allow element input here; missing one of p, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, div, pre, address, fieldset, ins, del start-tag ...subject,name,email,country,message / ^ Enclose the inputs within a block element such as p or div / Example: http://www.simplebits.com/bits/simplequiz/#entry579 Is that all? Congrats, then :) -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Hiding 'skip nav' links (was Re: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text?)
El jue, 19-02-2004 a las 03:56, Tim Lucas escribió: the source document. People that claim that image replacement is more accessible than img tags are simply wrong. They are just as wrong as those who claim their website is more accessible because they include a div style=display: none;a href=#navSkip to navigation/a/div in the top of their document as most user agents ignore display:none [1]. Regarding this subject, i'd like to point people to these resources on providing accesible 'skip nav' links while avoiding display:none http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/articles/archives/000180.php http://blog.tom.me.uk/2003/09/13/skipadeedoodah.php#tools HTH -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
