Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Christopher Jones]

> On 31 Aug 2018, at 7:21 pm, Mick Mueck  wrote:
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> I just took a look at the X.org <http://x.org/> site referenced in a reply 
> below. Chris Jones said:
>> The X.Org 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
>>  related ports are indeed more up to date there
>> 
> 
> I went to the downloads mirror and it looks like the most recent thing 
> downloadable is even older than XQuartz (unless I'm missing something):
> 
>
> <https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/Download/>https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/Download/
>  <https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/Download/>
That has nothing to do with MacPorts.

> 
> I'll happily use whatever is newer that's out there, but even in the really 
> old stuff I came across I didn't see any simple installer. While I might 
> flatter myself a little and say I'm a techie, it looked like the X.org 
> <http://x.org/> stuff wasn't going to be easy to install. I'm looking for 
> pretty much the same sort of thing that XQuartz provides and I'd be thrilled 
> if that came with Mac-style windows that could be resized on all sides. 
> Sadly, I'm just a user (not a developer)... 
> 
> I just don't know what I'm going to do when some future OS X update renders 
> XQuartz broken.

Go to

https://www.macports.org <https://www.macports.org/>

and then follow the instructions to install MacPorts.

Once done, you install the X11 server it provides with (in a terminal)

> sudo port install xorg-server


Chris


> Regards,
> 
> Mick
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2018.0831, at 14:03, Cheng-Yang Tan > <mailto:cytan...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a few questions:
>> 
>> If I run the xorg-server from macports, then
>>  Do I still have to start Xquartz? 
>> Does xorg-server have a window manager? 
>> Are there any instructions on how to run xorg-server? (I don't know where 
>> .xinitrc is on my Mac but are there any .x* files that need to be changed?)
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> cytan
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, August 31, 2018, 12:10:41 PM CDT, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed) 
>> mailto:stephen.lan...@nist.gov>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> You meant "xorg-server", not "xors-server".
>> 
>>  
>> Chris -- Can I hijack this thread to ask if you have any insight into a 
>> question which the macports and vtk lists haven't been able to answer:  Is 
>> it possible to use OpenGL 3.2 on macOS, using mesa and X from MacPorts?  
>> mesa 17.1.6 ought to support OpenGL 4.5, but glxinfo (from macports) says 
>> it's only 2.1, and vtk requires at least 3.2.
>> 
>>  
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> -- Steve
>> 
>>  
>> On 8/31/18, 12:53 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Christopher Jones" 
>> > <mailto:x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com> on behalf 
>> of jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk <mailto:jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Hi,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David > <mailto:da...@kdbarto.org>> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.
>> 
>> does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?
>> 
>>  
>> I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a couple 
>> times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering stopping 
>> XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts versions as the 
>> primary distribution means.
>> 
>>  
>> I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The X.Org 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
>>  related ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed 
>> as the primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties 
>> (myself included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things 
>> ongoing right now looking to update a few X.Org 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816455775=aRmMODzcfHZMi11aJpp1pnEFUOvItezL0Ug%2BjSRKx

Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[John Lindal]

X.org <http://x.org/> is not the home of xorg-server.  Do you have MacPorts
installed?  (If not, check here:  https://www.macports.org/install.php)

Once MacPorts is installed, simply run "sudo port install xorg-server"

After this finishes, you should see X11.app in Applications -> MacPorts

This X11.app works exactly the same as the one installed by XQuartz.

John

On Aug 31, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Mick Mueck  wrote:

Hi again,

I just took a look at the X.org <http://x.org/> site referenced in a reply
below. Chris Jones said:

The X.Org
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
related
ports are indeed more up to date there

I went to the downloads mirror and it looks like the most recent thing
downloadable is even older than XQuartz (unless I'm missing something):

https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/Download/

I'll happily use whatever is newer that's out there, but even in the really
old stuff I came across I didn't see any simple installer. While I might
flatter myself a little and say I'm a techie, it looked like the X.org
<http://x.org/> stuff wasn't going to be easy to install. I'm looking for
pretty much the same sort of thing that XQuartz provides and I'd be
thrilled if that came with Mac-style windows that could be resized on all
sides. Sadly, I'm just a user (not a developer)...

I just don't know what I'm going to do when some future OS X update renders
XQuartz broken.

Regards,

Mick



On 2018.0831, at 14:03, Cheng-Yang Tan  wrote:

I have a few questions:

If I run the xorg-server from macports, then

   1.  Do I still have to start Xquartz?
   2. Does xorg-server have a window manager?
   3. Are there any instructions on how to run xorg-server? (I don't know
   where .xinitrc is on my Mac but are there any .x* files that need to be
   changed?)

Thanks!

cytan


On Friday, August 31, 2018, 12:10:41 PM CDT, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed) <
stephen.lan...@nist.gov> wrote:


You meant "xorg-server", not "xors-server".


Chris -- Can I hijack this thread to ask if you have any insight into a
question which the macports and vtk lists haven't been able to answer:  Is
it possible to use OpenGL 3.2 on macOS, using mesa and X from MacPorts?
mesa 17.1.6 ought to support OpenGL 4.5, but glxinfo (from macports) says
it's only 2.1, and vtk requires at least 3.2.


Thanks.

-- Steve


On 8/31/18, 12:53 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Christopher Jones" <
x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com on behalf of
jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk> wrote:


Hi,




On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David  wrote:


Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.

does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?



I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a
couple times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering
stopping XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts
versions as the primary distribution means.


I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The X.Org
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
related
ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed as the
primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties (myself
included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things ongoing
right now looking to update a few X.Org
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816455775=aRmMODzcfHZMi11aJpp1pnEFUOvItezL0Ug%2BjSRKxjg%3D=0>
components. This is the big advantage compared to XQuartz, in that anyone
who wants to can contribute to it within MacPorts.  X11 is certainly not
dead in MacPorts, and I do recommend anyone using the server to look to
migrating to use the MacPorts supplied version (port name is xors-server).


Chris




David


On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote:

 4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
From: Filhol Alain 
To: x11-users@lists.apple.com
Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
Message-ID: <20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.


[AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (muc

Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Mick Mueck]

Hi again,

I just took a look at the X.org <http://x.org/> site referenced in a reply 
below. Chris Jones said:
> The X.Org 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
>  related ports are indeed more up to date there
> 

I went to the downloads mirror and it looks like the most recent thing 
downloadable is even older than XQuartz (unless I'm missing something):

https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/Download/ 
<https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/Download/>

I'll happily use whatever is newer that's out there, but even in the really old 
stuff I came across I didn't see any simple installer. While I might flatter 
myself a little and say I'm a techie, it looked like the X.org <http://x.org/> 
stuff wasn't going to be easy to install. I'm looking for pretty much the same 
sort of thing that XQuartz provides and I'd be thrilled if that came with 
Mac-style windows that could be resized on all sides. Sadly, I'm just a user 
(not a developer)... 

I just don't know what I'm going to do when some future OS X update renders 
XQuartz broken.

Regards,

Mick



> On 2018.0831, at 14:03, Cheng-Yang Tan  wrote:
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> If I run the xorg-server from macports, then
>  Do I still have to start Xquartz? 
> Does xorg-server have a window manager? 
> Are there any instructions on how to run xorg-server? (I don't know where 
> .xinitrc is on my Mac but are there any .x* files that need to be changed?)
> Thanks!
> 
> cytan
> 
> 
> On Friday, August 31, 2018, 12:10:41 PM CDT, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> You meant "xorg-server", not "xors-server".
> 
>  
> Chris -- Can I hijack this thread to ask if you have any insight into a 
> question which the macports and vtk lists haven't been able to answer:  Is it 
> possible to use OpenGL 3.2 on macOS, using mesa and X from MacPorts?  mesa 
> 17.1.6 ought to support OpenGL 4.5, but glxinfo (from macports) says it's 
> only 2.1, and vtk requires at least 3.2.
> 
>  
> Thanks.
> 
> -- Steve
> 
>  
> On 8/31/18, 12:53 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Christopher Jones" 
>  <mailto:x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com> on behalf 
> of jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk <mailto:jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hi,
> 
>  
> 
> 
> On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David  <mailto:da...@kdbarto.org>> wrote:
> 
>  
> Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.
> 
> does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?
> 
>  
> I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a couple 
> times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering stopping 
> XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts versions as the 
> primary distribution means.
> 
>  
> I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The X.Org 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
>  related ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed 
> as the primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties 
> (myself included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things 
> ongoing right now looking to update a few X.Org 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816455775=aRmMODzcfHZMi11aJpp1pnEFUOvItezL0Ug%2BjSRKxjg%3D=0>
>  components. This is the big advantage compared to XQuartz, in that anyone 
> who wants to can contribute to it within MacPorts.  X11 is certainly not dead 
> in MacPorts, and I do recommend anyone using the server to look to migrating 
> to use the MacPorts supplied version (port name is xors-server).
> 
>  
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com 
> <mailto:x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com> wrote:
> 
>  4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)
> 
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
> From: Filhol Alain mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>
> To: x11-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>
> Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
> Message-ID: <20242b12-9c0d-4a0

Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Langer, Stephen A. (Fed)]

Xquartz starts automatically when it's needed.  Its windows appear alongside 
the native Mac windows, without the need for a separate window manager.

-- Steve

On 8/31/18, 2:04 PM, "Cheng-Yang Tan" 
mailto:cytan...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

I have a few questions:

If I run the xorg-server from macports, then
1.  Do I still have to start Xquartz?
2. Does xorg-server have a window manager?
3. Are there any instructions on how to run xorg-server? (I don't know 
where .xinitrc is on my Mac but are there any .x* files that need to be 
changed?)
Thanks!

cytan


On Friday, August 31, 2018, 12:10:41 PM CDT, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed) 
 wrote:



You meant "xorg-server", not "xors-server".



Chris -- Can I hijack this thread to ask if you have any insight into a 
question which the macports and vtk lists haven't been able to answer:  Is it 
possible to use OpenGL 3.2 on macOS, using mesa and X from MacPorts?  mesa 
17.1.6 ought to support OpenGL 4.5, but glxinfo (from macports) says it's only 
2.1, and vtk requires at least 3.2.



Thanks.

-- Steve



On 8/31/18, 12:53 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Christopher Jones" 
mailto:x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com>
 on behalf of jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk<mailto:jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:



Hi,





On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David mailto:da...@kdbarto.org>> 
wrote:



Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.

does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?



I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a couple 
times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering stopping 
XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts versions as the 
primary distribution means.



I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The 
X.Org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7Ca1d2cd406ba34dc5fbc008d60f6c22d0%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713354443103096=1tzUgskwJF6W59HvbfDJcp6w9KCW0uNt4qnqhjn2UBI%3D=0>
 related ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed as 
the primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties (myself 
included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things ongoing 
right now looking to update a few 
X.Org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7Ca1d2cd406ba34dc5fbc008d60f6c22d0%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713354443113105=MSkzYO%2BBmd0vlJHr0C9Dvs27DiVJBT00LFMS5hsnYK4%3D=0>
 components. This is the big advantage compared to XQuartz, in that anyone who 
wants to can contribute to it within MacPorts.  X11 is certainly not dead in 
MacPorts, and I do recommend anyone using the server to look to migrating to 
use the MacPorts supplied version (port name is xors-server).



Chris



David


On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, 
x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com<mailto:x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com> 
wrote:

 4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
From: Filhol Alain mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>
To: x11-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>
Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
Message-ID: 
<20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu<mailto:20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.


[AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (much slower 
than with Linux).

[JHS] mailto:jerem...@freedesktop.org>>
There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions of 
macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is below 
us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as doing so would 
fix this case but cause bad performance penalties for every single other case 
out there.  The real solution is to get XQuartz off of libXplugin and start 
using more modern macOS APIs (eg: finishing up libxcwm), but there's not really 
anyone actively working on that right now.

[AF] Are you the only one involved in XQuartz developments ?

[JHS] Yes, and I spend significantly less than 1% of my time on it ... barely 
enough to just pull in upstream changes, build, and ship.

[AF] [...] but people are reluctant in using them on Macintoshes because of 
that problem of slowness.

[JHS] If you're interested in working on the replacement, I can point you in 
the right direction.  It's maybe 60% done ... all by a group of college seniors 
at PSU.

--Jeremy


Alain

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
X11-users mailing list  
(X11-us

Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Christopher Jones]

HI

> On 31 Aug 2018, at 7:03 pm, Cheng-Yang Tan  wrote:
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> If I run the xorg-server from macports, then
>  Do I still have to start Xquartz? 

You should first remove the XQuartz provided package. This might not be 
completely required, but avoids potential confusion as to which you are running.
> Does xorg-server have a window manager? 

It provides a Application and window manager that works exactly the same way as 
XQuartz. Just log out and back in again and then whenever you need an X11 
server the MP provided application will auto start.
> Are there any instructions on how to run xorg-server? (I don't know where 
> .xinitrc is on my Mac but are there any .x* files that need to be changed?)
You can if you want manually start the Application (It installs in 
/Applications/MacPorts) but generally I find this is not required. I let it 
auto-start as required.

Chris

> Thanks!
> 
> cytan
> 
> 
> On Friday, August 31, 2018, 12:10:41 PM CDT, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> You meant "xorg-server", not "xors-server".
> 
>  
> Chris -- Can I hijack this thread to ask if you have any insight into a 
> question which the macports and vtk lists haven't been able to answer:  Is it 
> possible to use OpenGL 3.2 on macOS, using mesa and X from MacPorts?  mesa 
> 17.1.6 ought to support OpenGL 4.5, but glxinfo (from macports) says it's 
> only 2.1, and vtk requires at least 3.2.
> 
>  
> Thanks.
> 
> -- Steve
> 
>  
> On 8/31/18, 12:53 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Christopher Jones" 
>  <mailto:x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com> on behalf 
> of jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk <mailto:jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hi,
> 
>  
> 
> 
> On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David  <mailto:da...@kdbarto.org>> wrote:
> 
>  
> Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.
> 
> does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?
> 
>  
> I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a couple 
> times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering stopping 
> XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts versions as the 
> primary distribution means.
> 
>  
> I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The X.Org 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
>  related ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed 
> as the primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties 
> (myself included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things 
> ongoing right now looking to update a few X.Org 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816455775=aRmMODzcfHZMi11aJpp1pnEFUOvItezL0Ug%2BjSRKxjg%3D=0>
>  components. This is the big advantage compared to XQuartz, in that anyone 
> who wants to can contribute to it within MacPorts.  X11 is certainly not dead 
> in MacPorts, and I do recommend anyone using the server to look to migrating 
> to use the MacPorts supplied version (port name is xors-server).
> 
>  
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com 
> <mailto:x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com> wrote:
> 
>  4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)
> 
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
> From: Filhol Alain mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>
> To: x11-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>
> Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
> Message-ID: <20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu 
> <mailto:20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
> I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.
> 
> 
> [AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (much slower 
> than with Linux).
> 
> [JHS] mailto:jerem...@freedesktop.org>>
> There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions of 
> macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is below 
> us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as doing so 
> would fix this case but cause bad performance penalties 

Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Christopher Jones]

Hi,

> On 31 Aug 2018, at 6:09 pm, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed) 
>  wrote:
> 
> You meant "xorg-server", not "xors-server”.


Yes, sorry. auto-correct always kicks in to screw that one up

>  
> Chris -- Can I hijack this thread to ask if you have any insight into a 
> question which the macports and vtk lists haven't been able to answer:  Is it 
> possible to use OpenGL 3.2 on macOS, using mesa and X from MacPorts?  mesa 
> 17.1.6 ought to support OpenGL 4.5, but glxinfo (from macports) says it's 
> only 2.1, and vtk requires at least 3.2.

yes, I saw your mail there. Sorry, I don’t have a good answer for you.. I don’t 
know enough about how mesa and X11 interact to comment.

One suggestion - You sent the mail to the MacPorts users list. Perhaps try your 
luck on the devel list instead…

Chris

>  
> Thanks.
> -- Steve
>  
> On 8/31/18, 12:53 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Christopher Jones" 
>  <mailto:x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com> on behalf 
> of jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk <mailto:jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>  
> Hi, 
>  
> 
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David > <mailto:da...@kdbarto.org>> wrote:
>>  
>> Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.
>> 
>> does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?
>  
> I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a couple 
> times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering stopping 
> XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts versions as the 
> primary distribution means.
>  
> I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The X.Org 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
>  related ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed 
> as the primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties 
> (myself included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things 
> ongoing right now looking to update a few X.Org 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816455775=aRmMODzcfHZMi11aJpp1pnEFUOvItezL0Ug%2BjSRKxjg%3D=0>
>  components. This is the big advantage compared to XQuartz, in that anyone 
> who wants to can contribute to it within MacPorts.  X11 is certainly not dead 
> in MacPorts, and I do recommend anyone using the server to look to migrating 
> to use the MacPorts supplied version (port name is xors-server).
>  
> Chris
> 
> 
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com 
>>> <mailto:x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
>>> From: Filhol Alain mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>
>>> To: x11-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
>>> Message-ID: <20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu 
>>> <mailto:20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
>>> I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> [AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (much 
>>>> slower than with Linux).
>>>> 
>>>> [JHS] mailto:jerem...@freedesktop.org>>
>>>> There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions 
>>>> of macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is 
>>>> below us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as 
>>>> doing so would fix this case but cause bad performance penalties for every 
>>>> single other case out there.  The real solution is to get XQuartz off of 
>>>> libXplugin and start using more modern macOS APIs (eg: finishing up 
>>>> libxcwm), but there's not really anyone actively working on that right now.
>>>> 
>>>> [AF] Are you the only one involved in XQuartz developments ?
>>>> 
>>>> [JHS] Yes, and I spend significantly less than 1%

Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Langer, Stephen A. (Fed)]

You meant "xorg-server", not "xors-server".

Chris -- Can I hijack this thread to ask if you have any insight into a 
question which the macports and vtk lists haven't been able to answer:  Is it 
possible to use OpenGL 3.2 on macOS, using mesa and X from MacPorts?  mesa 
17.1.6 ought to support OpenGL 4.5, but glxinfo (from macports) says it's only 
2.1, and vtk requires at least 3.2.

Thanks.
-- Steve

On 8/31/18, 12:53 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Christopher Jones" 
mailto:x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com>
 on behalf of jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk<mailto:jon...@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hi,



On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David mailto:da...@kdbarto.org>> 
wrote:

Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.

does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?

I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a couple 
times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering stopping 
XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts versions as the 
primary distribution means.

I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The 
X.Org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816445770=zJ%2FoQUGW04oX3qmGmcL7kKwJ9aeiCM4nO%2BDA%2FfTvYNs%3D=0>
 related ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed as 
the primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties (myself 
included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things ongoing 
right now looking to update a few 
X.Org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FX.Org=02%7C01%7Cstephen.langer%40nist.gov%7C16d7bdea424a40c252fb08d60f62363f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636713311816455775=aRmMODzcfHZMi11aJpp1pnEFUOvItezL0Ug%2BjSRKxjg%3D=0>
 components. This is the big advantage compared to XQuartz, in that anyone who 
wants to can contribute to it within MacPorts.  X11 is certainly not dead in 
MacPorts, and I do recommend anyone using the server to look to migrating to 
use the MacPorts supplied version (port name is xors-server).

Chris



David


On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, 
x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com<mailto:x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com> 
wrote:

 4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
From: Filhol Alain mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>
To: x11-users@lists.apple.com<mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>
Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
Message-ID: 
<20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu<mailto:20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.


[AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (much slower 
than with Linux).

[JHS] mailto:jerem...@freedesktop.org>>
There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions of 
macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is below 
us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as doing so would 
fix this case but cause bad performance penalties for every single other case 
out there.  The real solution is to get XQuartz off of libXplugin and start 
using more modern macOS APIs (eg: finishing up libxcwm), but there's not really 
anyone actively working on that right now.

[AF] Are you the only one involved in XQuartz developments ?

[JHS] Yes, and I spend significantly less than 1% of my time on it ... barely 
enough to just pull in upstream changes, build, and ship.

[AF] [...] but people are reluctant in using them on Macintoshes because of 
that problem of slowness.

[JHS] If you're interested in working on the replacement, I can point you in 
the right direction.  It's maybe 60% done ... all by a group of college seniors 
at PSU.

--Jeremy


Alain

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Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Christopher Jones]

Hi,


> On 31 Aug 2018, at 5:14 pm, David  wrote:
> 
> Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.
> 
> does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?

I cannot comment on Jeremy’s intentions w.r.t. XQuartz, but he has (a couple 
times I think) mentioned on these mailing lists he was considering stopping 
XQuartz releases and focussing exclusively on the MacPorts versions as the 
primary distribution means.

I can comment on MacPorts, as I am a member. The X.Org <http://x.org/> related 
ports are indeed more up to date there, and whilst Jeremy is listed as the 
primary maintainer, there are a number of other interested parties (myself 
included) who also contribute. In fact there are a number of things ongoing 
right now looking to update a few X.Org <http://x.org/> components. This is the 
big advantage compared to XQuartz, in that anyone who wants to can contribute 
to it within MacPorts.  X11 is certainly not dead in MacPorts, and I do 
recommend anyone using the server to look to migrating to use the MacPorts 
supplied version (port name is xors-server).

Chris

> 
>   David
> 
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote:
>> 
>>  4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)
>> 
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
>> From: Filhol Alain 
>> To: x11-users@lists.apple.com
>> Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
>> Message-ID: <20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
>> I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.
>> 
>>> [AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (much 
>>> slower than with Linux).
>>> 
>>> [JHS] 
>>> There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions of 
>>> macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is 
>>> below us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as doing 
>>> so would fix this case but cause bad performance penalties for every single 
>>> other case out there.  The real solution is to get XQuartz off of 
>>> libXplugin and start using more modern macOS APIs (eg: finishing up 
>>> libxcwm), but there's not really anyone actively working on that right now.
>>> 
>>> [AF] Are you the only one involved in XQuartz developments ?
>>> 
>>> [JHS] Yes, and I spend significantly less than 1% of my time on it ... 
>>> barely enough to just pull in upstream changes, build, and ship.
>>> 
>>> [AF] [...] but people are reluctant in using them on Macintoshes because of 
>>> that problem of slowness.
>>> 
>>> [JHS] If you're interested in working on the replacement, I can point you 
>>> in the right direction.  It's maybe 60% done ... all by a group of college 
>>> seniors at PSU.
>>> 
>>> --Jeremy
>> 
>> 
>> Alain
>> 
> 
> ___
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> X11-users mailing list  (X11-users@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: 
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Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[David]

Jeremyhu is listed as the maintainer of xorg-server on MacPorts.

does he spend more time working on that than XQuartz?

David

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, x11-users-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote:
> 
>   4. Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned? (Filhol Alain)
> 
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:51:01 +0200
> From: Filhol Alain 
> To: x11-users@lists.apple.com
> Subject: Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?
> Message-ID: <20242b12-9c0d-4a0d-8b63-7d8686269...@ill.eu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
> I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.
> 
>> [AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (much slower 
>> than with Linux).
>> 
>> [JHS] 
>> There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions of 
>> macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is 
>> below us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as doing 
>> so would fix this case but cause bad performance penalties for every single 
>> other case out there.  The real solution is to get XQuartz off of libXplugin 
>> and start using more modern macOS APIs (eg: finishing up libxcwm), but 
>> there's not really anyone actively working on that right now.
>> 
>> [AF] Are you the only one involved in XQuartz developments ?
>> 
>> [JHS] Yes, and I spend significantly less than 1% of my time on it ... 
>> barely enough to just pull in upstream changes, build, and ship.
>> 
>> [AF] [...] but people are reluctant in using them on Macintoshes because of 
>> that problem of slowness.
>> 
>> [JHS] If you're interested in working on the replacement, I can point you in 
>> the right direction.  It's maybe 60% done ... all by a group of college 
>> seniors at PSU.
>> 
>> --Jeremy
> 
> 
> Alain
> 

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Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Filhol Alain]

Here the answer I got from Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia on 02 Feb 2017.
I think we can be real pessimistic concerning X11 on macOS.

> [AF] A question about slow dialogues with OpenMotif and XQuartz (much slower 
> than with Linux).
> 
> [JHS] 
> There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions of 
> macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is below 
> us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as doing so 
> would fix this case but cause bad performance penalties for every single 
> other case out there.  The real solution is to get XQuartz off of libXplugin 
> and start using more modern macOS APIs (eg: finishing up libxcwm), but 
> there's not really anyone actively working on that right now.
> 
> [AF] Are you the only one involved in XQuartz developments ?
> 
> [JHS] Yes, and I spend significantly less than 1% of my time on it ... barely 
> enough to just pull in upstream changes, build, and ship.
> 
> [AF] [...] but people are reluctant in using them on Macintoshes because of 
> that problem of slowness.
> 
> [JHS] If you're interested in working on the replacement, I can point you in 
> the right direction.  It's maybe 60% done ... all by a group of college 
> seniors at PSU.
> 
> --Jeremy


Alain



> On 30 Aug 2018, at 22:30, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed)  
> wrote:
> 
> xorg-server from MacPorts is more up to date.
> -- Steve
>  
> On 8/30/18, 3:54 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Mick Mueck" 
>   on behalf 
> of mick.mu...@mac.com > wrote:
>  
> Hi All, 
>  
> I'm an XQuartz user and immensely glad I can run CAD software (Cadence 
> Virtuoso) on a linux box and display all of it's X11 windows on my Mac. Very 
> many years ago I put a bug into the XQuartz system that wasn't deemed to have 
> a high priority, although it royally painful to me, and it's fix was never 
> tackled. Basically, the cursor size on many of the windows in this CAD tools 
> suite is about 4 times bigger than normal. When selecting menu items, I can't 
> properly read what I'm selecting because of the cursor size, tool-tips are 
> usually useless because the cursor obstructs most of it, editing a document 
> (placing the cursor, selecting text) is painful because the I-beam is four 
> lines high etc. Annoyingly, it's only with this Cadence software that the 
> cursor bug occurs - pretty much every other X11 window I interact with has a 
> cursor size that's just fine.
>  
> Anyway, the version of XQuartz I'm using is 2.7.11 - I get it from 
> xquartz.org 
> 
>  and it's just about 2 years old. I'm wondering if development has migrated 
> to another place or is XQuartz is abandoned?
>  
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Mick
>  
>  
> ___
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> )
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> This email sent to fil...@ill.eu 
--
Dr. Alain Filhol  (Computer scientist)
Institut Laue-Langevin
EPN Campus, CS 20156, 71 ave des Martyrs, F-38042 Grenoble cedex 9
, Office: ILL19-206
Tel:+33 4.76.20.71.56, Fax: +33 4.76.20.76.48








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Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[John Lindal]

When issues are fixed in xorg-server, the the related tickets closed?

John

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 1:30 PM, Langer, Stephen A. (Fed) 
>  wrote:
> 
> xorg-server from MacPorts is more up to date.
> -- Steve
>  
> On 8/30/18, 3:54 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Mick Mueck" 
>   on behalf 
> ofmick.mu...@mac.com > wrote:
>  
> Hi All, 
>  
> I'm an XQuartz user and immensely glad I can run CAD software (Cadence 
> Virtuoso) on a linux box and display all of it's X11 windows on my Mac. Very 
> many years ago I put a bug into the XQuartz system that wasn't deemed to have 
> a high priority, although it royally painful to me, and it's fix was never 
> tackled. Basically, the cursor size on many of the windows in this CAD tools 
> suite is about 4 times bigger than normal. When selecting menu items, I can't 
> properly read what I'm selecting because of the cursor size, tool-tips are 
> usually useless because the cursor obstructs most of it, editing a document 
> (placing the cursor, selecting text) is painful because the I-beam is four 
> lines high etc. Annoyingly, it's only with this Cadence software that the 
> cursor bug occurs - pretty much every other X11 window I interact with has a 
> cursor size that's just fine.
>  
> Anyway, the version of XQuartz I'm using is 2.7.11 - I get it from 
> xquartz.org 
> 
>  and it's just about 2 years old. I'm wondering if development has migrated 
> to another place or is XQuartz is abandoned?
>  
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Mick
>  
>  
> ___
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Re: Is XQuartz development abandoned?

[Langer, Stephen A. (Fed)]

xorg-server from MacPorts is more up to date.
-- Steve

On 8/30/18, 3:54 PM, "X11-users on behalf of Mick Mueck" 
mailto:x11-users-bounces+stephen.langer=nist@lists.apple.com>
 on behalf of mick.mu...@mac.com> wrote:

Hi All,

I'm an XQuartz user and immensely glad I can run CAD software (Cadence 
Virtuoso) on a linux box and display all of it's X11 windows on my Mac. Very 
many years ago I put a bug into the XQuartz system that wasn't deemed to have a 
high priority, although it royally painful to me, and it's fix was never 
tackled. Basically, the cursor size on many of the windows in this CAD tools 
suite is about 4 times bigger than normal. When selecting menu items, I can't 
properly read what I'm selecting because of the cursor size, tool-tips are 
usually useless because the cursor obstructs most of it, editing a document 
(placing the cursor, selecting text) is painful because the I-beam is four 
lines high etc. Annoyingly, it's only with this Cadence software that the 
cursor bug occurs - pretty much every other X11 window I interact with has a 
cursor size that's just fine.

Anyway, the version of XQuartz I'm using is 2.7.11 - I get it from 
xquartz.org
 and it's just about 2 years old. I'm wondering if development has migrated to 
another place or is XQuartz is abandoned?


Regards,

Mick


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