Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Luke Szczepaniak]

Kc
hkkhj
On Jul 29, 2015 12:22 PM, "martin.kopp...@gmx.de" 
wrote:

> Am 29.07.2015 um 09:18 schrieb Max Kellermann :
>
> > In 6.8, a marker is a waypoint.
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> we need to take care and stay current with development. If Max writes
> that, he probably means it, and there is no more difference between a
> waypoint and a marker, it's only what we use it for. Could be in 6.8 there
> is no more need to have different gestures for marker and waypoint, then.
>
> In that case labeling the button "drop marker" might just be misleading,
> since the term "marker" is historically preoccupied. To keep semantics
> consistent, and prevent users from expecting old behavior, then scratch
> their heads, we should therefore name it appropriately. (Make Point, New
> WPT, save coords, ...?)
>
> Just so we are clear about "a marker is a waypoint": Are markers and
> waypoints in 6.8 technically identical, or are markers a subset of
> waypoints?
>
> If markers and waypoints were truly identical, there would be no more use
> in having two names for the very same thing.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[martin.kopp...@gmx.de]

Am 29.07.2015 um 09:18 schrieb Max Kellermann :

> In 6.8, a marker is a waypoint.


Hi Paul, 

we need to take care and stay current with development. If Max writes that, he 
probably means it, and there is no more difference between a waypoint and a 
marker, it's only what we use it for. Could be in 6.8 there is no more need to 
have different gestures for marker and waypoint, then. 

In that case labeling the button "drop marker" might just be misleading, since 
the term "marker" is historically preoccupied. To keep semantics consistent, 
and prevent users from expecting old behavior, then scratch their heads, we 
should therefore name it appropriately. (Make Point, New WPT, save coords, 
...?) 

Just so we are clear about "a marker is a waypoint": Are markers and waypoints 
in 6.8 technically identical, or are markers a subset of waypoints? 

If markers and waypoints were truly identical, there would be no more use in 
having two names for the very same thing. 

Best,
Martin
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Neil Allison (ATS)]

Hi Martin,

> An "M" gesture for a marker and a "W" gesture for
> a waypoint appears to be a good idea at first glance. 

I thought so too.  I've since simplified it to drawing a square "o", 
clockwise for dropping a Marker and anti-clockwise for a Waypoint.  
In my simple ground based tests I think complicated gestures might 
not be reliable when airborne in turbulent conditions.

I think there are several simple gestures that could be used 
according to users' preferences.

> Could be problematic if there is no waypoint event, though.  

There is an AddWaypoint event as described by Max in a message on 
24-Jul:
"For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can
 add to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature."

Thus, "event=AddWaypoint" is the entry for an xci file.
In a quick test of extending my .xci file with an additional button 
on the pan menu and a gesture, this works as expected. 

Regards,
Neil

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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Max Kellermann]

On 2015/07/29 06:40, Paul Surgeon  wrote:
> I agree. Placing a waypoint in pan mode would make more sense than placing
> a marker.

In 6.8, a marker is a waypoint.

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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Paul Surgeon]

Hi Martin

I agree. Placing a waypoint in pan mode would make more sense than placing
a marker.
A marker is to mark something interesting during flight like a thermal
source or something on the ground that caught your attention and you'd like
to remember where it is.

The only reason why I'd want to place a "point" in pan mode is because the
waypoint file I'm using doesn't have a waypoint I require for a personal
task.
Placing a waypoint directly in pan mode would speed up the process
considerably.

Regards
Paul


On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 11:01 PM, martin.kopp...@gmx.de <
martin.kopp...@gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi Neil,
>
> a gesture might streamline the process a bit, indeed. Next rainy day I’ll
> look into that.
> An „M“ gesture for a marker and a „W“ gesture for a waypoint appears to be
> a good idea at first glance. Could be problematic if there is no waypoint
> event, though.
>
> I’m curious if dropping markers in pan mode is a valid scenario anyway.
> Dropping a marker at current GPS position is okay, there is definitely a
> strong use case for that, though dropping markers in pan mode? What would
> that mark? It is pretty deliberate. Wouldn’t it make sense to change that
> so that in pan mode waypoints are created and saved without the detour via
> markers?
>
> Anyway, I’m looking forward to using waypoint creation on my device, as it
> would finally allow leaving the laptop at home.
>
> Best,
> Martin
> ---
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Neil Allison (ATS)]

On 28 Jul 2015 at 8:26, Ronald Niederhagen wrote:

> can you share the .xci file? I'd like to see a working example since I
> don't understand how it works.

The XCSoar manual has a section about input events.

Rather than attach a file for the mailing list, the plain text for 
my "drop_marker.xci" is below.  This example is 32 lines long, 
beginning with "## Change What's Here to Mark Drop"

Load this file through the System Config Menu: System > Look > 
Language, Input > Events field. You need to restart XCSoar for this 
to take effect.

As well as an "m" shaped gesture (up, right, down, up, right down), 
it also has a simpler "o" or square gesture starting from the top 
left corner (right, down, left, up).

This .xci file must be a plain text file that ends with a blank line 
including a carriage return. 

Kind regards
Neil


## Change What's Here to Mark Drop

mode=pan
type=key
data=APP4
event=Mode default
event=StatusMessage Dropped marker
event=Logger note Mark
event=MarkLocation
label=Mark\nDrop
location=4

## Gestures for Drop Marker

# "O" start in top left
mode=default
type=gesture
data=RDLU
event=Mode default
event=StatusMessage Dropped marker
event=Logger note Mark
event=MarkLocation

# "m" start bottom left
mode=default
type=gesture
data=URDURD
event=Mode default
event=StatusMessage Dropped marker
event=Logger note Mark
event=MarkLocation



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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[martin.kopp...@gmx.de]

Hi Neil, 

a gesture might streamline the process a bit, indeed. Next rainy day I’ll look 
into that. 
An „M“ gesture for a marker and a „W“ gesture for a waypoint appears to be a 
good idea at first glance. Could be problematic if there is no waypoint event, 
though. 

I’m curious if dropping markers in pan mode is a valid scenario anyway. 
Dropping a marker at current GPS position is okay, there is definitely a strong 
use case for that, though dropping markers in pan mode? What would that mark? 
It is pretty deliberate. Wouldn’t it make sense to change that so that in pan 
mode waypoints are created and saved without the detour via markers? 

Anyway, I’m looking forward to using waypoint creation on my device, as it 
would finally allow leaving the laptop at home. 

Best, 
Martin 
--- 






Am 27.07.2015 um 22:27 schrieb Neil Allison :

> Hi Martin,
> 
>> So, before the discussion goes on: Is there even the slightest chance of
>> markers used as waypoints making it to any future 6.7.x release? Or will
>> this not be introduced before 6.8.x? 
> 
> I have built a latest version for testing in Windows and used the XCS-test
> Android version whixh are 6.8.x.  I confirm both Drop Marker at pan
> position and using this marker as a waypoint, i.e. "Goto" work well.
> 
> I have some more testing to do about how to name these to fit *my*
> preferred waypoint naming scheme, likely of no use to anyone else.  I use
> a customised event file .xci to create a gesture "m" to drop a marker and
> I changed
> the bottom right menu button in Pan mode to be "Drop Marker" too.  This
> works for me. YMMV.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Neil
> -- 
> Neil Allison, Christchurch, NZ
> 


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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Max Kellermann]

On 2015/07/27 19:07, "martin.kopp...@gmx.de"  wrote:
> So, before the discussion goes on: Is there even the slightest chance of 
> markers used as waypoints making it to any future 6.7.x release? Or will this 
> not be introduced before 6.8.x? 

6.7.x is a "stable" branch with a feature freeze.  For uttermost
stability, no features are added/removed/changed.

For the same reasons, 6.7.x will not get a new IOIO driver, even
though new Android versions or new IOIO revisions require it - I don't
want to risk breaking anybody's existing setup.  It may break at the
transition to the next major release (6.8), and we'll figure it out
then - but during a stable series, nothing must break, even in the
presence of other disadvantages.

That concept has worked very well in the past 6 years (since I took
over XCSoar project management).  XCSoar has a good reputation for
being rock stable - something that could not be said about older
versions.

> Since most of us are trying to communicate in a language that is not
> our native language, misunderstandings may happen, and I ask Max to
> reconsider banning Ramy.

It is hard to imagine that Ramy calling me "an extreme type of
arrogant asshole" is something we can have misunderstandings about.

And now Ramy wants ME to apologise to HIM!  No, really!  See:

 "But you owe me a public apology."

That's what he wrote to me last sunday after getting banned.  You
can't make that stuff up!

People like Ramy take the fun from XCSoar development.  I don't want
that to happen.  This is my free time, and nobody pays me compensation
to tolerate Ramy.  So I decide I just don't deal with such people
anymore.

Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1357/

Max

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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Neil Allison]

Hi Martin,
 
> So, before the discussion goes on: Is there even the slightest chance of
> markers used as waypoints making it to any future 6.7.x release? Or will
> this not be introduced before 6.8.x? 

I have built a latest version for testing in Windows and used the XCS-test
Android version whixh are 6.8.x.  I confirm both Drop Marker at pan
position and using this marker as a waypoint, i.e. "Goto" work well.

I have some more testing to do about how to name these to fit *my*
preferred waypoint naming scheme, likely of no use to anyone else.  I use
a customised event file .xci to create a gesture "m" to drop a marker and
I changed
the bottom right menu button in Pan mode to be "Drop Marker" too.  This
works for me. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Neil
-- 
Neil Allison, Christchurch, NZ


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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[martin.kopp...@gmx.de]

Given the fact that a marker we cannot navigate to makes only little sense in 
the context discussed, we need to have both the features: 'Drop marker at pan 
position' and 'use markers as waypoints'. 

So, before the discussion goes on: Is there even the slightest chance of 
markers used as waypoints making it to any future 6.7.x release? Or will this 
not be introduced before 6.8.x? 

If it was the latter, we could just stop discussing and wait for that release. 

If it was the first, we probably have found a bug worth investigating and Ramy 
was most probably right in pointing out the feature of dropping markers in pan 
mode was not available (or at least not consistently usable) in 6.7.x. Some of 
us can reproduce that. 

Since most of us are trying to communicate in a language that is not our native 
language, misunderstandings may happen, and I ask Max to reconsider banning 
Ramy. 


Regarding usability in flight I fully agree with Ronald. While this is an 
important improvement for pre flight, I believe using it in flight might cause 
quite a long head down time. It takes an estimated 20 taps or more until you 
have a usable waypoint to insert in a task. 
While I can clearly see reasons to use it pre flight, how likely would it be 
people use it in flight? 

I do not need to speculate a lot, in this case. I have been using a glide 
computer which provided in flight waypoint creation, and was quite happy with 
it (quit it for say political reasons, but really really miss this feature). 
The workflow was very fast and I used it a lot to make 'what if' calculations. 
I would, for example, put a waypoint on a corner of some airspace to see if my 
final glide would take me safely around it or if I'd have to request clearance, 
or tentatively push a waypoint around on the map to optimize for OLC. Or, if 
FIS told me some ED-R on my route was active, I'd put a new waypoint just 
outside it to conveniently navigate around it. 

That user interface approach did not include a menu for dropping markers, 
though. Instead each tap on the map would create kind of a tentative item on 
the map which could then be used as a feference for the next command, such as 
display airspaces at the location, list map items near the location, list flarm 
traffic near the location, or also as a waypoint appended or inserted in the 
task. 
With it being very fast, (only tree taps to new waypoint in task) it soon 
became a convenient tool in flight. 
In XCSoar we also tap on the screen, so not much difference here, but then we 
get the map elements list, which is a different approach. We get items, not 
commands. 

That said, I'd answer Ronald that it could be made be a useful tool in flight, 
though it is not quite yet. 

It would require a slightly different user interaction, such as a context menu 
popping open instead of the XCS map elements page. I am not sure the manpower 
required or the motivation to revamp the UI is available jus now. (And this 
would - of course- be a deeper UI-philosophical discussion.) 

Viele Grüße 
Martin Kopplow 
---

Am 27.07.2015 um 09:18 schrieb Ronald Niederhagen 
:

> I confirm Paul's (and others) findings.
> However, I wouldn't want to use it in flight.
> 
> Ronald
> 
> Am 27.07.2015 um 07:15 schrieb Paul Surgeon:
>> Update:
>> I just tested 6.8 alpha 9 on Android and it is possible to drop a marker
>> anywhere on the map.
>> This is not possible with the 6.7.9 build for Android.
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Paul Surgeon > > wrote:
>> 
>>   I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree
>>   with this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT
>>   drop a mark at the cross air location."
>>   I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you
>>   pan to on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is
>>   currently located and not at the cross hair location.
>>   i.e.
>>   - Pan mode
>>   - Double tap for menu
>>   - NAV 2
>>   - Mark Drop
>> 
>>   I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a
>>   marker into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is
>>   arguing about.
>>   In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently
>>   located - at least with the Android builds I tested.
>> 
>>   @Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 (
>>   http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
>>   apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he
>>   likes in pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people
>>   using 6.7.x builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.
>> 
>> 
>>   On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann >   > wrote:
>> 
>>   On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz >   > wrote:
>>> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
>>> Max really thinks we are all stupid:
>> 
>>   That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell o

Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Ronald Niederhagen]

I confirm Paul's (and others) findings.
However, I wouldn't want to use it in flight.

Ronald

Am 27.07.2015 um 07:15 schrieb Paul Surgeon:
> Update:
> I just tested 6.8 alpha 9 on Android and it is possible to drop a marker
> anywhere on the map.
> This is not possible with the 6.7.9 build for Android.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Paul Surgeon  > wrote:
>
> I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree
> with this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT
> drop a mark at the cross air location."
> I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you
> pan to on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is
> currently located and not at the cross hair location.
> i.e.
> - Pan mode
> - Double tap for menu
> - NAV 2
> - Mark Drop
>
> I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a
> marker into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is
> arguing about.
> In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently
> located - at least with the Android builds I tested.
>
> @Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 (
> http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
> apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he
> likes in pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people
> using 6.7.x builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann  > wrote:
>
> On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz  > wrote:
> > And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> > Max really thinks we are all stupid:
>
> That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and
> other
> XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
> hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
> XCSoar bug tracker.
>
> Byebye.
>
> Max
>
> 
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Paul Surgeon]

Update:
I just tested 6.8 alpha 9 on Android and it is possible to drop a marker
anywhere on the map.
This is not possible with the 6.7.9 build for Android.


On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Paul Surgeon  wrote:

> I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree with
> this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a
> mark at the cross air location."
> I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you pan to
> on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is currently
> located and not at the cross hair location.
> i.e.
> - Pan mode
> - Double tap for menu
> - NAV 2
> - Mark Drop
>
> I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a marker
> into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is arguing about.
> In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently
> located - at least with the Android builds I tested.
>
> @Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 (
> http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
> apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he likes in
> pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people using 6.7.x
> builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann  wrote:
>
>> On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz  wrote:
>> > And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
>> > Max really thinks we are all stupid:
>>
>> That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and other
>> XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
>> hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
>> XCSoar bug tracker.
>>
>> Byebye.
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Paul Surgeon]

I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree with
this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark
at the cross air location."
I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you pan to
on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is currently
located and not at the cross hair location.
i.e.
- Pan mode
- Double tap for menu
- NAV 2
- Mark Drop

I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a marker
into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is arguing about.
In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently
located - at least with the Android builds I tested.

@Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 (
http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he likes in
pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people using 6.7.x
builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.


On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann  wrote:

> On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz  wrote:
> > And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> > Max really thinks we are all stupid:
>
> That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and other
> XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
> hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
> XCSoar bug tracker.
>
> Byebye.
>
> Max
>
>
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[martin.kopp...@gmx.de]

I don’t understand the confusion. There either is or isn’t a usable feature.

IF there was already a way to create waypoints from the map in 6.7.x or 
earlier, I’d appreciate someone point me in towards the workflow. I could not 
find it in the manual, and couldn’t figure out myself, too. IF there is a way, 
I’d like to learn and share it with my flying buddies, it could help us a lot. 

Which was the number of the ticket mentioned, Ramy? I would like to read it, 
maybe I get enlightenment from it. 
Max, are we actually all talking the same topic or do we have a complete 
misunderstanding? 

Martin


--- 






Am 26.07.2015 um 19:06 schrieb Ramy Yanetz :

> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> Max really thinks we are all stupid: 
> 
> "Ramy please stop spamming your off-topic bullshit here. This ticket is
> closed because it was bogus from the start, and there's nothing left to
> discuss. Take your ego somewhere else, please."
> 
> (Sent from my iPhone)
> 
>> On Jul 26, 2015, at 5:47 AM, "martin.kopp...@gmx.de"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I also just took the time and tried it. 
>> 
>> in 6.8.9 it is possible. 
>> 
>> Steps: 
>> 1. Enable pan mode. 
>> 2. Pan to desired location. 
>> 3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured 
>> that one out!) 
>> 4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 
>> menu. 
>> 5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named 
>> according to coordinates. 
>> 6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page. 
>> 7. Select the marker from the list. 
>> 8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page. 
>> 9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
>> 10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page. 
>> 11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.
>> 
>> -> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task 
>> editor and use it the usual way. 
>> 
>> I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might 
>> be acceptable for pre flight. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped 
>> at the crosshair location. 
>> 
>> Martin 
>> 
>> 
>> --- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz :
>>> 
>>> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not 
>>> dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the 
>>> enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not 
>>> address the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map. 
>>> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. 
>>> Reopening the ticket. 
>>> 
>>> Ramy
>>> 
>>> From: Ramy Yanetz 
>>> To: Andreas Pfaller  
>>> Cc: "xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net"  
>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by 
>>> panning or tapping?
>>> 
>>> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong 
>>> info was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket 
>>> as if this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will 
>>> be available in 6.8. 
>>> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air 
>>> location. 
>>> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the 
>>> manual. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
>>> 
>>> Ramy
>>> 
>>> (Sent from my iPhone)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
>>>> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
>>>> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
>>>> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
>>>> available in 6.7.x.
>>>> 
>>>> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
>>>> waypoint.
>>>> 
>>>> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
>>>> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>&g

Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Max Kellermann]

On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz  wrote:
> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> Max really thinks we are all stupid:

That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and other
XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
XCSoar bug tracker.

Byebye.

Max

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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Ramy Yanetz]

And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
Max really thinks we are all stupid: 

"Ramy please stop spamming your off-topic bullshit here. This ticket is
closed because it was bogus from the start, and there's nothing left to
discuss. Take your ego somewhere else, please."

(Sent from my iPhone)

> On Jul 26, 2015, at 5:47 AM, "martin.kopp...@gmx.de"  
> wrote:
> 
> I also just took the time and tried it. 
> 
> in 6.8.9 it is possible. 
> 
> Steps: 
> 1. Enable pan mode. 
> 2. Pan to desired location. 
> 3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured 
> that one out!) 
> 4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 
> menu. 
> 5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named according 
> to coordinates. 
> 6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page. 
> 7. Select the marker from the list. 
> 8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page. 
> 9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
> 10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page. 
> 11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.
> 
> -> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task 
> editor and use it the usual way. 
> 
> I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might 
> be acceptable for pre flight. 
> 
> 
> 
> In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped 
> at the crosshair location. 
> 
> Martin 
> 
> 
> --- 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz :
>> 
>> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not 
>> dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the 
>> enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address 
>> the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map. 
>> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. 
>> Reopening the ticket. 
>> 
>> Ramy
>> 
>> From: Ramy Yanetz 
>> To: Andreas Pfaller  
>> Cc: "xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net"  
>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by 
>> panning or tapping?
>> 
>> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info 
>> was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if 
>> this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be 
>> available in 6.8. 
>> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air 
>> location. 
>> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the 
>> manual. 
>> 
>> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
>> 
>> Ramy
>> 
>> (Sent from my iPhone)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
>>> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
>>> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
>>> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
>>> available in 6.7.x.
>>> 
>>> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
>>> waypoint.
>>> 
>>> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
>>> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ___
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>>> Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Ramy Yanetz]

Thanks Martin for confirming that it is not working in 6.7 but works in 6.8. 

Ramy

> On Jul 26, 2015, at 5:47 AM, "martin.kopp...@gmx.de"  
> wrote:
> 
> I also just took the time and tried it. 
> 
> in 6.8.9 it is possible. 
> 
> Steps: 
> 1. Enable pan mode. 
> 2. Pan to desired location. 
> 3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured 
> that one out!) 
> 4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 
> menu. 
> 5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named according 
> to coordinates. 
> 6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page. 
> 7. Select the marker from the list. 
> 8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page. 
> 9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
> 10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page. 
> 11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.
> 
> -> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task 
> editor and use it the usual way. 
> 
> I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might 
> be acceptable for pre flight. 
> 
> 
> 
> In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped 
> at the crosshair location. 
> 
> Martin 
> 
> 
> --- 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz :
>> 
>> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not 
>> dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the 
>> enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address 
>> the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map. 
>> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. 
>> Reopening the ticket. 
>> 
>> Ramy
>> 
>> From: Ramy Yanetz 
>> To: Andreas Pfaller  
>> Cc: "xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net"  
>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by 
>> panning or tapping?
>> 
>> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info 
>> was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if 
>> this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be 
>> available in 6.8. 
>> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air 
>> location. 
>> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the 
>> manual. 
>> 
>> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
>> 
>> Ramy
>> 
>> (Sent from my iPhone)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
>>> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
>>> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
>>> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
>>> available in 6.7.x.
>>> 
>>> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
>>> waypoint.
>>> 
>>> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
>>> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ___
>>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>>> Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[martin.kopp...@gmx.de]

I also just took the time and tried it. 

in 6.8.9 it is possible. 

Steps: 
1. Enable pan mode. 
2. Pan to desired location. 
3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured that 
one out!) 
4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 menu. 
5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named according 
to coordinates. 
6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page. 
7. Select the marker from the list. 
8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page. 
9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page. 
11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.

-> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task 
editor and use it the usual way. 

I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might be 
acceptable for pre flight. 



In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped at 
the crosshair location. 

Martin 


--- 



Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz :

> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not 
> dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the 
> enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address 
> the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map. 
> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. 
> Reopening the ticket. 
> 
> Ramy
> 
> From: Ramy Yanetz 
> To: Andreas Pfaller  
> Cc: "xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net"  
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning 
> or tapping?
> 
> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info 
> was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if 
> this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be 
> available in 6.8. 
> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air 
> location. 
> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the 
> manual. 
> 
> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
> 
> Ramy
> 
> (Sent from my iPhone)
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller  wrote:
> > 
> > A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
> > just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
> > normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
> > will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
> > available in 6.7.x.
> > 
> > The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
> > waypoint.
> > 
> > So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
> > 6.8.x alpha was just released.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > ___
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> > Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
> 
> 
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Ramy Yanetz]

Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not 
dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the 
enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address 
the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map. 
So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. 
Reopening the ticket. 

Ramy

  From: Ramy Yanetz 
 To: Andreas Pfaller  
Cc: "xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net"  
 Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning 
or tapping?
   
There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info 
was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this 
feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 
6.8. 
I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air 
location. 
Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the 
manual. 

Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar

Ramy

(Sent from my iPhone)



> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller  wrote:
> 
> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
> available in 6.7.x.
> 
> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
> waypoint.
> 
> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ___
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> Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Ramy Yanetz]

There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info 
was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this 
feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 
6.8. 
I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air 
location. 
Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the 
manual. 

Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar

Ramy

(Sent from my iPhone)

> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller  wrote:
> 
> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
> available in 6.7.x.
> 
> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
> waypoint.
> 
> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ___
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> Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Andreas Pfaller]

A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
available in 6.7.x.

The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
waypoint.

So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
6.8.x alpha was just released.



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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[martin.kopp...@gmx.de]

Yes, if that created a waypoint at the map center, we'd be fine, I guess. 

Viele Grüße 
Martin Kopplow

Mobil +49 171 7984740

---

Am 24.07.2015 um 18:12 schrieb Bryan Hindle :

> You mean like this.

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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Ramy Yanetz]

Yes, this is what the original tickets were asking for 5 years. 
They were closed as if this feature exists but apparently it isn't. 
As far as I know the ability to create a waypoint on the map on the fly exists 
in all other flight computers. Winpilot already had it more than 10 years ago. 

Ramy

> On Jul 24, 2015, at 8:49 AM, "martin.kopp...@gmx.de"  
> wrote:
> 
> As far as I can see, markers can only be dropped at the current GPS position. 
> That kind of limits this tool for creating waypoints intended as yet-to-reach 
> turnpoints or targets. 
> 
> If markers could be dropped while in pan mode, this would be a whole 
> different story, though. A user could then pan to the desired location, put 
> the cross hairs right over the chosen place, and drop a marker, then name it 
> and use in his task. 
> 
> The pan mode menu would only need a 'drop marker' box, then. 
> 
> Viele Grüße 
> Martin Kopplow
> 
> Mobil +49 171 7984740
> 
> ---
> 
>> Am 24.07.2015 um 07:27 schrieb Max Kellermann :
>> 
>>> On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz  wrote:
>>> Can anyone explain how?
>> 
>> Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
>> since version 5.0).
>> 
>> For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
>> to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.
>> 
>> For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
>> waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).
>> 
>> --
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[martin.kopp...@gmx.de]

As far as I can see, markers can only be dropped at the current GPS position. 
That kind of limits this tool for creating waypoints intended as yet-to-reach 
turnpoints or targets. 

If markers could be dropped while in pan mode, this would be a whole different 
story, though. A user could then pan to the desired location, put the cross 
hairs right over the chosen place, and drop a marker, then name it and use in 
his task. 

The pan mode menu would only need a 'drop marker' box, then. 

Viele Grüße 
Martin Kopplow

Mobil +49 171 7984740

---

Am 24.07.2015 um 07:27 schrieb Max Kellermann :

> On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz  wrote:
>> Can anyone explain how?
> 
> Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
> since version 5.0).
> 
> For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
> to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.
> 
> For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
> waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).
> 
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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Ramy Yanetz]

Max, I don't think the waypoint editor has an option to use the map, at least 
not in 6.7 and as such does not address this request at all.  Entering a 
waypoint coordinates is not something you can do on the fly at the airport 
while getting ready to fly after evaluating the latest forecast and realize 
that there will be thunderstorms over your original intended waypoint but 
unfortunately there are no other pre defined waypoints to choose from in the 
desired area. 
Perhaps the markers will do if you can create a marker at any point on the map, 
not just current position. Will 6.8 provide the option to create a marker at 
any point on the map? If not, I think it is highly desirable. 

Thanks,

Ramy


> On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:27 PM, Max Kellermann  wrote:
> 
>> On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz  wrote:
>> Can anyone explain how?
> 
> Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
> since version 5.0).
> 
> For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
> to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.
> 
> For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
> waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).

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Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

[Max Kellermann]

On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz  wrote:
> Can anyone explain how?

Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
since version 5.0).

For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.

For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).

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