[ZION] Ivory Coast - who goes?
How is it okay for France and the United States to send troops into the Ivory Coast? Did the government of the Ivory Coast invite them? If so, I've never heard it discussed on any news report. Marc? = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- __ Download the FREE Opera browser at www.opera.com/download/ Free OperaMail at http://www.operamail.com/ Powered by Outblaze / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] rumors about the scriptures
I guess the person to ask would be John Tvedtnes, since it sounds like he's one of those heading this up. Anyone got his email address handy? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Marc: Good questions all. Now I'm going to do what I used to do when I taught HPs and someone would ask a question I couldn't answer -- give them the question as a homework assignment. You've got a month to research this and report back. The rest of you, listen up, because this *will* be on the final GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Patriot Fizzles being moved into place
Here's my snarky remark for the day (I'm allotted 1.35 per day and I can accumulate them. Honest -- it's in the Zion-L charter). I read that there are rumours that the US is moving Patriot missiles into Kuwait. This could be for many reasons, including part of the enforcement of the southern no fly zone over Iraq, but of course it could also be in preparation for war with Iraq. Time will tell. That's not the snarky part. The snarky part, although I'm actually serious, too, is that I would quake in my boots at this news if I were Saddam. Does anybody remember how many Scuds* that Iraq fired at Israel during the Gulf War were successfully intercepted by Patriots? I'll give you a hint: pick a number between 0 and 1. *Have you ever noticed that military nomenclature loses in the translation? We think of Desert Storm, and call our missiles Minuteman [Russian commander to his intelligence aide: Wass iss? Some kind of rice?] and the EU current jet plane is known as Tornado. When you go the other way you get Bears (I think that was a Russian bomber) -- okay, I can tremble at that one -- but Scuds? Maybe it's Arabic for splat or Saddam's nose or something. IIRC the North Korean long-range missile is called the Dong-il, which apparently means the east is red or some such. China's probably working on an ICBM called Xiulan Zhiang, which means Violets are fragrant, have a nice day. Maybe I'm making half of this up, I don't know... -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] War on Iraq
Fair enough, and I agree totally. (Sorry -- I really tried to find a nit to pick, but your scalp -- maybe even what it covers -- is absolutely healthy). Stephen Beecroft wrote:. I didn't say that most Muslims want to blast Americans, if that's what you're suggesting (though that might be the case). My point was simple and, I thought, fairly clear: The term jihad had a bad reputation since long before the Taliban even existed, so they (the Taliban) certainly haven't given the term [jihad] a bad name. In the non-Muslim west, the term has always had the unpleasant connotation of fanatical, murderous zealots. Stephen -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Rumour about the scriptures
Well, I know that when my Mom bought my missionary bible for me, it cost some C$70.00 and that was in the mid-70s. And by coincidence, the C$ was actually worth slightly *more* than the US$ at the time. That was an awful lot of money for a single mom, but she was so proud -- I was the first person in her family (she's a convert) to go on a mission, and she loved missionaries, always having them over for dinner, etc. It was the highlight of her life at that time when I went (how's that for motivation?!) Jon Spencer wrote: I agree, although I don't know about the wealthy part, unless your speaking in a spiritual sense. The cost of the deluxe scriptures is minor compared to what they would cost from any other source. I have had my large print deluxe quad for about 7 years, and it is in wonderful condition. It should last many more years. Of course, perhaps we should take a page from some of the Apostles, and write furiously in our scriptures, making notes on what the Spirit teaches us, and get a new set a year or two. Then the less expensive set would suffice quite well. Jon John W. Redelfs expoused: I hope the rumor is wrong. The top of the line set lasts a lot longer, and as book it is much more delicious to own. Although to be sure, there is no reason that the wealthy among us should be able to afford better bound scriptures than those who are more modest in the means. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] LDS Study Bible
Some people have asked about the progress of the book with the working title of LDS Study Bible (which actually just covers the NT), so I finally got around to making an inquiry with the project manager. The work had ground to a halt for about a year or 18 months for commercial reasons (the original publisher no longer exists), and the book is now planned to come out in two parts: I = introduction, Matthew - Acts; and II = the epistles, Revelation and appendices. Part I is due out in December or January and I think I'm allowed to say now that the publisher is Covenant (possibly under one of their imprints called Cornerstone Books), and Part II will come out some time in 2003 -- probably the summer of 2003. Like Mormonism 201, which I've told most of you about, this book is also being written by committee over the Internet, but this one will also be printed on paper (probably trade paperback, but I'm not sure). I'd better get moving. My assignment is I and II Corinthians and Romans. I've finished my draft of I Corinthians, have 4/13 of II Corinthians done, several of the appendices (on the Greek nature of the NT and an introduction to Jacobean English), and I haven't even begun Romans yet. I can't say yet who the other authors are yet because some of them are still negotiating (that is, we're still trying to recruit one or two of them), but one I think I can mention is John Tvedtnes, of FARMS, who has the assignment to cover the Johannine materials (Gospel of John, the epistles of John), and co-author Revelation with another person. If you want to see what it sort of looks like, I've put my draft of I Corinthians 13 on the web in MS Word format; you can download it at http://www.geocities.com/marcschindler1/ICOR13.doc (note that it's the letter I then COR then the number 13). This draft doesn't show the actual layout. In the final book, a chapter, or portion of a chapter will be given, and then these notes will be added. Because they're more extensive than footnotes (and have a different purpose than most of the footnotes in the official LDS Bible, which are meant to cross-reference scriptures thematically) the notes will be in a block on the page, or in a split-page format. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Rumour about the scriptures
At 06:58 10/1/2002 -0800, BLT wrote: At 07:17 AM 10/1/02 -0400 Jon Spencer favored us with: I agree, although I don't know about the wealthy part, unless your speaking in a spiritual sense. The cost of the deluxe scriptures is minor compared to what they would cost from any other source. I have had my large print deluxe quad for about 7 years, and it is in wonderful condition. It should last many more years. Of course, perhaps we should take a page from some of the Apostles, and write furiously in our scriptures, making notes on what the Spirit teaches us, and get a new set a year or two. Then the less expensive set would suffice quite well. I believe it was Dave Crockett who said he bought a new set of scriptures every year so that he could start with one that didn't have any highlighting or underlining, the idea being that we should get something different from our scriptures every year as we grow in the gospel. I don't follow this practice, but the idea sounds right. My large print quad got wet on the flight to SLC this August*, so I bought a new set of scriptures. I was thinking of doing it anyway**. I got the regular size, mid-priced version ($35 or some such for the bible) and decided I would not be the least bit shy about marking them up. I took notes during education week, classes with Holzapfel, V Ludlow and Robert Matthews, taking notes in my new scriptures. I have a real treasure house of markings in there. I am now in the process of going through the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and cross-referencing it with scripture. I am finding associated scriptures with all of the concepts that I can and marking all the scriptures in the TPJS and marking TPJS p whatever in the scriptures next to the verse. This way, when I hit a particular scripture and want to elaborate on it for a talk or for study, I have this marvelous little reference volume that has a whole load of scripture references right next to Joseph's commentary on the subject. It's proving to be a very large task, but I don't really care. When I get done, I may get a new set of scriptures and use some other marking approach, keeping the old one as a reference. I keep thinking I SHOULD go through each conference talk with a set of scriptures and back reference the scriptural references that they use. Of course, while doing that, there's no reason not to do what I'm doing with the TPJS too. Maybe I should include a TPJS page number in there too. I suppose someone will suggest I do the same with the Journal of Discourses and the History of the Church 8(( ...and the teachings of all the other modern prophets Till * which Jet Blue has been kind enough to replace, actually. I pressed my wet ones when I got home, so they are serviceable, although not yet right. I now have a new large print quad that is as yet unread and unmarked. ** I have decided I don't really like the index cuts in the good scriptures. I have a much harder time finding things. I can thumb through a set of scriptures, knowing approximately where things are, then home in much quicker than fumbling with those silly tab cuts. They just seem to get in the way all the time, with page blocks not falling through the fingers predictably. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Patriot Fizzles being moved into place
*Have you ever noticed that military nomenclature loses in the translation? We think of Desert Storm, and call our missiles Minuteman [Russian commander to his intelligence aide: Wass iss? Some kind of rice?] and the EU current jet plane is known as Tornado. When you go the other way you get Bears (I think that was a Russian bomber) -- okay, I can tremble at that one -- but Scuds? Maybe it's Arabic for splat or Saddam's nose or something. IIRC the North Korean long-range missile is called the Dong-il, which apparently means the east is red or some such. China's probably working on an ICBM called Xiulan Zhiang, which means Violets are fragrant, have a nice day. Maybe I'm making half of this up, I don't know... Does your wife really let you smoke that stuff Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ivory Coast - who goes?
Yes, they were invited in by the government. What's happening is that, in common with most of the countries in West Africa (notably Nigeria, but also Benin, Togo, Ghana ) Cote d'Ivoire (aka Ivory Coast) is comprised of five geographic regions: a coastal region, often deltas of rivers, like southern Louisiana, then, to the north, equatorial rainforest, then, north of that savannah (tall grass areas with groves of trees), then drylands with scrub brush, then finally, in some countries, desert or semi-desert. Culturally speaking, the further north you go the more Moslems there are. Bouaké, the main city in northern Cote d'Ivoire is in an area with a lot of Muslims, and fundamentalists there are trying to foment a secessionist revolt. The legal, or recognized, government, based in Yamoussoukro (an artificial capital like Ottawa, Canberra and Ajuba -- the biggest city is Abidjan, on the coast), officially asked for French and US help. The US evacuated its citizens and the French evacuated French and Canadians (2 of them, students at a missionary school there, are from Spruce Grove, in fact) ObLDS: there are 2 branches of the Cote d'Ivoire Abidjan Mission in Bouaké: http://www.gatheringofisrael.com/atlas/africa/west/CI_yamoussoukro.gif For the south of the country, where most LDS live, see: http://www.gatheringofisrael.com/atlas/africa/west/CI_abidjan.gif (you can see even from this type of schematic map that the area is very much like the bayous of southern Louisiana, incidentally). The map has a bit of a mess-up with the list of wards in Abidjan city itself but you'll be able to see what's meant. For an overview of the whole country, to put the former two maps into context, see: http://www.gatheringofisrael.com/atlas/africa/west/tmstkcote_divoire.gif Bouaké is in savannah country but not far from the Moslem area of semi-desert to the north. Unfortunately the government's main concern is only secondarily for the well-being of foreign nationals -- it's to get them out of the way so they can use whatever measures necessary to put down the revolution, and whatever measures necessary in Africa is code for brutality. As to media coverage, I don't watch TV news, but I know it was on CBC Radio One, and we both know how you can find out if it was on CHED, and in the Edmonton Journal. Unfortunately neither one has decent archives, but here are the references to the coverage in the two national papers: Best overall coverage of what actually happened: http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?current_row=7tf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.htmlcf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.cfgconfigFileLoc=tgam/configencoded_keywords=ivory+coastoption=start_row=7start_row_offset1=num_rows=1search_results_start=1query=ivory+coast Good background, including a theory that it was neighbouring (and Islamic) Burkina Faso that caused the latest rebellion: http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?current_row=5tf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.htmlcf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.cfgconfigFileLoc=tgam/configencoded_keywords=ivory+coastoption=start_row=5start_row_offset1=num_rows=1search_results_start=1query=ivory+coast Note in this background article that Côte d'Ivoire was formerly a French colony. In fact it was part of what was known as French Equatorial Africa, which was a regional common market based on the CFA Franc (Communauté des francs afriques). The first post-independence leader, Félix Houphouët-Boigny (to pick a slight nit with the way the GM spelled his name -- there's a diaresis over the e in his last name), was quite a character. The French, following the usual colonial mercantilist model, had converted Côte d'Ivoire from a subsistence economy into a cash commodity economy, largely based on cocoa beans. With high cocoa prices, Abidjan became known as the Paris of Africa (it's one place I never visited but always wanted to -- I was told it was as wealthy as Johannesburg). Houphouët-Boigny was very francophile and tried to make Cote d'Ivoire a Little France. That's why it's officially known as Côte d'Ivoire (both the CIA fact book, the US State Dept and Foreign Affairs Canada refer to it that way instead of Ivory Coast, its traditional English name). He also decided to move the capital away from Abidjan -- as Nigeria had moved their capital away from Lagos -- into the interior, so as to be more central. He picked his own home town (no bias there!), Yamoussoukro, a tiny backwater, and actually started building a Catholic basilica which was to be on the same basic pattern as St. Peter's in the Vatican, only larger -- it was to be the largest Catholic church in the world. I don't believe it was ever finished. Anyway, Houphouët-Boigny let/asked the French to guarantee their defence, so that's why the French intervened. It was quite legal under Ivoirean law and very welcome by the existing government in Yam'o. There were 3 articles in the
Re: [ZION] War on Iraq
Dan: But you also see cites like this: On Monday, Perisic and two others were charged with espionage, the state-run Tanjug news agency reported, citing a statement released by military prosecutors. If convicted, the three face between three and 15 years in jail. This came from the on-line version of the Las Vegas Sun, under a AP byline. http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-eur/2002/sep/30/093002490.html Marc: An example of a verifiable citation. Dan: It's all relative I guess since I don't read Slav, and the items referenced would be difficult to find without dates, etc. Dan: So while saying Janes reported may not be as specific as you desire, it does not lessen it's validity, or the reliability of the reporter. Marc: An example of a hard-to-verify citation. For some reason I find more of this kind in certain online news sources (like CNS) that the right wing especially seems to be attracted to. Am not sure why that should be so. Surely it can't be that right-wingers can't tell a valid journalistic service from a propaganda service. I know some smart conservatives who would never fail to make that distinction. Dan: Generic statements released by Yugoslav military prosecutors are hard to verify also. Why is it left-wingers claim that only news sources that they agree with are acceptable? Might have something to do with ideological bent, don't you think? MSNBC and their ilk claim impartiality, yet constantly apply bias in determining what they consider to be news. Services like CNS do not claim impartiality, and generally make it easy to identify their bias. A propaganda instrument will generally be much more effective by claiming impartiality while feeding their victims only that what they want them to hear. Marc, I have no problem discussing issues based on the factual content, but personal ideological attacks should be beneath us. Therefore I will no longer respond to your comments about the 'right' or 'intelligence' of the U.S. government plans for responding to the Iraqi threat. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] maps
Guess what. I just picked up the mail and got my copy of FARMS' Insights. Guess what the featured book is? Charting the New Testament. Here's the blurb: A new book from FARMS offers a world of information about the new Testament and its background. Charting the New Testament contains scores of charts, tables, and graphs, each with a helpful explanatory and reference materials in a reader-friendly format. Covering a wide array of topics -- from the ancient Jewish setting of the New Testament and the world of the Greeks and Romans in which the activities of jesus and his apostles took place to detailed analysis of the scriptural text itself -- the book offers an extensive overview of matters doctrinal, literary and historicalAlso included are detailed maps of various regions mentioned in the New Testament and bibliographic notes that lead the most interested readers to scholarly treatments of the topics contained in the charts... -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ivory Coast - who goes?
The legal, or recognized, government, based in Yamoussoukro (an artificial capital like Ottawa, Canberra and Ajuba -- the biggest city is Abidjan, on the coast), officially asked for French and US help. Mark: Okay, if you say so. But none of your links gave any indication that the Ivory Coast government asked for the help. At this point it seems to be only implied because they aren't screaming about anyone improperly meddling. No doubt the government enjoys the help it has gotten from France and the US. It's just that I have not heard or read anything where they actually asked for it, or were offered and accepted. Dan: At this point the articles I've read about it indicate that the French and US troops are not taking any part in the battle; they just went into Bouake and removed the foreign nationals that were in the city. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
By the way, Paul...it is GREAT to see you back on the list! Heidi the fair [Original Message] From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9/30/2002 8:40:26 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated Why are we (I include myself in that) latter-day saints so reluctant to get our year's supply of food? Not JWR. I have seen his stash. He is loaded with grain! When I visited him in Alaska I told him he may need a gun to protect his stock but he said he has so much he is willing to feed his neighbors too! What a swell guy. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / Heidi Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Ivory Coast - who goes?
At 09:12 PM 10/1/02 + Larry Jackson favored us with: I think in this case it might be more that the US is in the habit of protecting its citizens wherever they are in the world, and some young citizens were in danger. So the US went to the Ivory Coast to get them. The French helped, IIRC, because there were some French citizens in the same predicament. I think it is kind of nice that the US would take care of its citizens that way, and even nicer that the US is able to do so. Of course, I read about all of this in the newspaper, so it may not actually be true. :-) At its root, this is my biggest problem in understanding current events. Where is there a reliable news source? I've found that five different sources will give five different stories with names, figures, and other important data widely diverging from each other. This is especially a problem with breaking news and everyone wants to be first with their story. They don't check their sources and confirm their information before they publish. Then that unconfirmed data become part of the public record and relied upon by many. This was an especially big problem in the last national election. I heard on the TV that Gore had handily won the election based upon exit polls. We all might just as well go home and celebrate or lick our wounds. The party's over. Then... a couple of hours later I learn that well, maybe the party isn't over, Florida is still iffy and could swing the vote either way. I'll be a lot of Bush voters didn't even bother to go to the polls after they heard from the media that it was a done deal. Who are you going to trust? Sometimes I get the feeling that all this media coverage of current events is just a dog and pony show, while the real events are not being reported at all. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. (Ephesians 6:12) * All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] LDS Study Bible
-John- Have you checked this project with the Brethren? Lynn Anderson wrote a simplified version of the Book of Mormon for children and poor readers, and the Brethren nixed the idea. She went ahead and published it anyway. It is pretty hard to change the words without changing the meaning somewhat, and in matters of doctrine the tiniest alteration might have long lasting ramifications. If I understand Marc correctly, they're not changing any words at all. They're just adding study information, references, and such. So I don't think the two projects are comparable. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] War on Iraq
Dan R Allen wrote: Dan: But you also see cites like this: On Monday, Perisic and two others were charged with espionage, the state-run Tanjug news agency reported, citing a statement released by military prosecutors. If convicted, the three face between three and 15 years in jail. This came from the on-line version of the Las Vegas Sun, under a AP byline. http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-eur/2002/sep/30/093002490.html Marc: An example of a verifiable citation. Dan: It's all relative I guess since I don't read Slav, and the items referenced would be difficult to find without dates, etc. Serbo-Croation is the language you mean, but Tanjug, while also issuing statements in their native tongue, will also release translated versions for the wire services to pick up. AP is the English-language source. In other words, the URL you gave above is sufficient for a citation. Just saying it was in Janes isn't specific enough. Another reader can't find it. Dan: So while saying Janes reported may not be as specific as you desire, it does not lessen it's validity, or the reliability of the reporter. What it tells me is that the reporter does not know his/her alleged trade if they can't put together a simple citation, like, say, Janes Defence Weekly, 27/08/02, p. 28-32. Although it's never the kind of thing I could prove, it leaves me with the suspicion that the reporter got his information second or third hand, and not directly from the news source, contrary to the Las Vegas Sun AP report (for one thing, the AP report would be in most major dailies in the US and probably Canada, so you could do a search on it.). Marc: An example of a hard-to-verify citation. For some reason I find more of this kind in certain online news sources (like CNS) that the right wing especially seems to be attracted to. Am not sure why that should be so. Surely it can't be that right-wingers can't tell a valid journalistic service from a propaganda service. I know some smart conservatives who would never fail to make that distinction. Dan: Generic statements released by Yugoslav military prosecutors are hard to verify also. I don't follow you. What's a generic statement in this context? The Yugoslavian story named names. It wasn't generic at all. Why is it left-wingers claim that only news sources that they agree with are acceptable? They don't. I'm not a left-winger, but even if some think I am, I dissed the Guardian right on this thread. To quote: Dan: But since CNS is too untrustworthy, how about the Guardian? Marc: Too ideological and wacky for my tastes. In any case, the summary you give strikes me as an accurate account of their beliefs and the payments their families receive. So again, ideology isn't the point. Might have something to do with ideological bent, don't you think? MSNBC and their ilk claim impartiality, yet constantly apply bias in determining what they consider to be news. Can you give some examples? I can. ABC, actually, but same diff. We get most of the US networks up here on cable, including the traditional Big 3. The local station's feed we get is Spokane, which is kind of odd, getting US news through a small place like Spokane, but that's another story. Anyway the national and international news is no different from ABC in Spokane than it would be in San Francisco. But this one day there had been an earthquake around 5.5 or so, and the local news team, who were giving regional news (Pacific Northwest -- Pacific Central West to us) said the earthquake was felt from Portland to Bellingham, and from Ketchikan to Juneau. So, what does that make the points between Bellingham and Ketchikan -- the Lower Mainland (metro Vancouver), Vancouver Island, the Sunshine Coast, the Inside Passage and the Queen Charlotte Islands -- chopped liver? Services like CNS do not claim impartiality, and generally make it easy to identify their bias. A propaganda instrument will generally be much more effective by claiming impartiality while feeding their victims only that what they want them to hear. Again, examples, please. I've given you an example. Let's take another look at your example from CNS: Here was your quote: In addition, Jane's Foreign Report, a highly regarded intelligence publication, reports that Israel's military intelligence service, Aman, suspects that Iraq sponsored the suicide attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Now, this could well be true. I don't know. But I'm not going to believe Lawrence Morahan, the writer, because his argument here (just here -- I'm using this part of the article as an example) is based solely on a report that according to Jane's Foreign Report, one of the Jane's group of defence and military publications published in Britain (and well-known and well-respected), has allegedly made a claim from Israel's military intelligence service. Let's work backwards. First of all, Mossad or Aman both
RE: [ZION] LDS Study Bible
At 11:14 PM 10/1/02 + Stephen Beecroft favored us with: If I understand Marc correctly, they're not changing any words at all. They're just adding study information, references, and such. So I don't think the two projects are comparable. I must have misunderstood. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] maps
You're right -- and the blurb mentions that this is the next in the series after the BoM one. Jon Spencer wrote: This is the follow on to Charting the Book of Mormon, which is also quite useful. As long as one is careful to avoiding becoming wise, but instead endeavors to immerse oneself in the culture and background of the specific set of scriptures, and in the correlations that abound therein, these types of aids can significantly expand one's ability to be taught by the Spirit. Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Guess what. I just picked up the mail and got my copy of FARMS' Insights. Guess what the featured book is? Charting the New Testament. Here's the blurb: A new book from FARMS offers a world of information about the new Testament and its background. Charting the New Testament contains scores of charts, tables, and graphs, each with a helpful explanatory and reference materials in a reader-friendly format. Covering a wide array of topics -- from the ancient Jewish setting of the New Testament and the world of the Greeks and Romans in which the activities of jesus and his apostles took place to detailed analysis of the scriptural text itself -- the book offers an extensive overview of matters doctrinal, literary and historicalAlso included are detailed maps of various regions mentioned in the New Testament and bibliographic notes that lead the most interested readers to scholarly treatments of the topics contained in the charts... / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ivory Coast - who goes?
Here's the website of their embassy in Ottawa: http://www.isa-africa.com/AmbCiCa/ (you can probably find their embassy's website in Washington via www.uncle-sam.com) The Canadian site was pretty sparse -- just information about the country, no news. So I tried Canadian Foreign Affairs -- their list of special warnings and the Canadian embassy in Yam'o. There's a special warning letter advising Canadians not to travel to Côte d'Ivoire until further notice because of an attempted coup: http://www.voyage.gc.ca/destinations/report_e.asp?country=Côte+d`Ivoire+(Ivory+Coast) U.S. State Dept. will have a similar notice, I'm sure (again, check through www.uncle-sam.com -- a fantastic site). Jon Spencer wrote: Call their embassy in D.C. John's not worried about it because he assumes the US is meddling. Marc and I already know, but didn't care enough to save the source of the info. No one else apparently is worried about it, being more concerned about the machinations going on in NJ to subvert the law, probably. Jon Mark Gregson wrote: Okay, if you say so. But none of your links gave any indication that the Ivory Coast government asked for the help. At this point it seems to be only implied because they aren't screaming about anyone improperly meddling. No doubt the government enjoys the help it has gotten from France and the US. It's just that I have not heard or read anything where they actually asked for it, or were offered and accepted. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
At 06:05 PM 10/1/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Maybe better food is why our special forces killed more Taliban than your special forces did in Afghanistan over the past six months even though your group is 4 times the size of ours (1300 vs 300)* ;-) Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
I never know whether to feel proud or ashamed. Our problem these days is we are gradually losing our sovereignty to the U.S. and are becoming prisoners of your foreign policy. We don't have a lot of choice -- sometimes you just have to play a bad hand the best you can. That's why I was so surprised when Jean Chrétien criticized Bush's readiness to go to war against Iraq and advised caution. That's rather un-Canadian. John W. Redelfs wrote: At 06:05 PM 10/1/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Maybe better food is why our special forces killed more Taliban than your special forces did in Afghanistan over the past six months even though your group is 4 times the size of ours (1300 vs 300)* ;-) Yeah, its real nice to know that you Canadians are real killers slaughtering people half way around the word. It must make you feel great. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
