Re: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database. You could check out Amphora which should do most of what you suggest. And it is based on Zope+Postgres. the main info page is at http://www.amphora.ee/ (unfortunately in estonian only ;) but you can check out demo which is either in english or estonian (depending on your browser language settings) at https://demo.amphora.ee/amphora/classic/ password:demo and username:demo It is not completely opensource though but is available with development license. - Hannu ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Dear Mr Krosing, Thank you VERY much for the information. This application looks really neat, this is really going in the direction I want, and has indeed a lot of the features I am looking for. This IS the application I want to start with. My estonian is really poor (not to say, I don't understand a word), but the English help is good enough. I shall go on tomorrow morning, but for what I noticed, it matches a lot of our requirements. I shall go on with some questions and statements, to knwo more about the system. Le Dimanche 21 Janvier 2001 13:28, Hannu Krosing a écrit : I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database. You could check out Amphora which should do most of what you suggest. And it is based on Zope+Postgres. the main info page is at http://www.amphora.ee/ (unfortunately in estonian only ;) but you can check out demo which is either in english or estonian (depending on your browser language settings) at https://demo.amphora.ee/amphora/classic/ password:demo and username:demo I did. Working good. I appreciate the fact that it is certified. It is not completely opensource though but is available with development license. Q1/ What is not open-source ? Q2/ What could be done to have the system open-sourced ? (We are ready to pay for such a system) Q3/ What is a developpement license ? Q4/ Which parts are proprietary ? I would understand if the "special" clients related to (I quote) "Special software exists for easy synchronisation with MS Outlook and MS Windows file system." and "The special Windows client is built using Borland Delphi, uses PGP for encryption/decryption and integrates Mozilla toolkit for electronic signatures. " would be proprietary, provided their protocol be open and fully described." be proprietary. We could pay for such licenses ... if the cost of the system is comparable to other similar systems. Q5/ Would you be ready for a contract to improve and further develop the system, as well as provide a maintenance for 3 to 5 years ? Q6/ I need to have a setup ready and if possible in English (and French and Dutch if possible but I have the translatros from English) within a week. Could this be possible ? Q7/ How do I have to proceed to set the system up (I can have local help with Zope + Postgresql + python if I do not succeed personnally, but I need a "procedure") = do this and this to install and configure the system, as well as some fake data. Q8/ What is your isntalled base ? (which are your clients) Are there any public institution your client (governments, large companies ...) Q9/ What kind of company are you ? How many people ? Which specific competences ? What is you financial backing (please understand that I would need to go through a public market, for which I would need answers to these questions plus many other !) Q10/ How many simultaneous client does the system stand ? Q11/ What is a reasonable system (I mean hardware) to run the system on, knowing that we could have about 50 users to start with in about 2 to 3 months, plus 200 users in about 6 months and about 500 in a year). We are ready to start with a small system and upgrade the hardware later on. Q12/ The system works with OUtlook. Does it also work with Outlook Express ? (that has less features than outlook, for example NO calendar as far as I know) Q13/ Are all the protocols, formats, file formats ... open and fully descibed (there is a law proposal that is supposed to get through very soon in Belgium that make it compulsory for public administration to use open format and protocols, that is formats and protocols that are 100 % described in public understandable document, for which a free implementation can be made, and that are deposited by a public institution) Q14/ As an open-source system (you say nearly) is it easily extendible in Zope and Python ? Q15/ Can it easily be linked with a LDAP directory service to provide the contacts coordinates ? (There is a ZOPE to LDAP system) Q16/ Can the project management system be extended to provide PERT and GANTT chart ? Q17/ How can a standard flow for a process be described and checked : I mean a way to trace for a project that a standard acceptation process has been followed for example ? Q18/ What about signatures and authentications of actions by specific people ? Q19/ Could you do as much as possible to let me set up a demonstration ? Q20/ Does the system run on Debian Potato ? THis is the server we run on, because we find debian management is the easiest and that tests are better done on
[Zope] Re: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Dear Mr Boulanger, Thank you very much for your input. I don't think there is such as system polished and ready within 2 weeks. I do NOT need a polished system within 2 weeks. I need a proof of concept . The production system shoudl run in 2 or 3 months ... and could be optimized afterwards also, in order to be polished. If it is well though already this should be possible. What could you do or take in charge ? Best regards, Nicolas Pettiaux Le Samedi 20 Janvier 2001 00:51, albert boulanger a crit : I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database. It should be demonstrablable (at least showable into a proof of concept) within 2 weeks and be already installable and usable within 2 or 3 months. (I have obtained taoday that the date when we'll decide on the system would be postponed 2 weeks from wednesday 24/1 to wed 7/2) If I could find such a marvel, I may find the money to pay for it, at least 5 $ to start with (this amount is a rapid guess; I may give more precise amounts we could spend in the following week) The idea is to use that combination of tools INSTEAD of buying a closed, proprietary solution (that may exist but be expensive and really har to parametrize), that NEED to be linked to a SAP ERP system. All suggestions and ideas are welcome, also on the selection criteria. (I happen to be responsible for the IT dept of the public institution that wants to buy such a tool, but be new in the place and do not yet know a lot about WF and EDM !) Soon I may be able to give you more details about the requirements. I don't think there is such as system polished and ready within 2 weeks. Here are some starting points: use wftk as a basis, the open source workflow toolkit -- http://.vivtek.com/wftk use openflow, a Zope based, but stalled project, http://openflow.sourceforge.net use Chautauqua, an old python based workflow system, http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~carlosm/chautauqua.html use the old UCI Endeavors workflow (java) system at http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/endeavors/endeavors.html We have not bit the bullet and built anything yet. Regards, Albert Boulanger [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du Prou 29 B-1000 Brussels ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Hi Nicolas, Your last post mentioned: I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based In addition to other links, you might want to check out ZopeGUM, and ZUBBS, http://www.zope.org/Members/morphex/ZopeGUM http://www.zope.org/Members/morphex/ZopeGUM/Info http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/ZUBB http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/ZUBB/README These may provide some of the groupware email pieces you are looking for. BTW, you may want to consider contacting some of the consultants listed on the Zope Solution Providers page. http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZSP I'm sure the Digital Creations folks won't object to me mentioning that in addition to being the sponsors, hosts, and creators of Zope, they also do consulting, including projects involving integrated workflow, such as the PTK. http://www.digicool.com http://www.digicool.com/Company/ Later, Jerry S. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Hi Nicolas, For you, when would such products be considered ready for production ? The most important factor can be viewed from two perspectives, neither precluding the other. The ideal state arrives when complete documentation is available, or at least one person on the deployment team has dug through the source code enough to inderstand the system thoroughly, and serve as a guide and mentor to others. Waiting for complete documentation sounds like a name for a surrealist/existentialist play for geeks. You may be in a fairly good position to benefit from input from the the creators of the ZDP Tools. Maik? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2001-January/037709.html If I can have a demonstration rapidly (unfortunately I do not yet know Zope personnally but I shall look for help locally), I may even get funds to help and foster the complementary developpement. Also see some recent posts from the Zope-PTK list: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2001-January/002179.html http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2001-January/002182.html Another thread that you may find interesting: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002009.html http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002002.html and don't miss: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002067.html http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002069.html It's getting exciting out there! Jerry S. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Thanks for the interesting URLs on workflow discussions. Corba Ecommerce has very interesting and thorough models of workflows, including UML diagrams and even an XML format for defining state machines. Sorry, this may be old news as I don't have time to follow up the actual threads beyond the first messages. But if not, anyone designing such a system for Zope *must* study the Corba stuff. Email me direct if the URLs haven't been published in the discussions and I'll be happy to dig them up (hard to find within www.omg.org). Or, (easier for me), I can email the (large) .pdf files direct. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Spicklemire, Jerry Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 2:30 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope Hi Nicolas, For you, when would such products be considered ready for production ? The most important factor can be viewed from two perspectives, neither precluding the other. The ideal state arrives when complete documentation is available, or at least one person on the deployment team has dug through the source code enough to inderstand the system thoroughly, and serve as a guide and mentor to others. Waiting for complete documentation sounds like a name for a surrealist/existentialist play for geeks. You may be in a fairly good position to benefit from input from the the creators of the ZDP Tools. Maik? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2001-January/037709.html If I can have a demonstration rapidly (unfortunately I do not yet know Zope personnally but I shall look for help locally), I may even get funds to help and foster the complementary developpement. Also see some recent posts from the Zope-PTK list: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2001-January/002179.html http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2001-January/002182.html Another thread that you may find interesting: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002009.html http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002002.html and don't miss: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002067.html http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002069.html It's getting exciting out there! Jerry S. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Thanks for the interesting URLs on workflow discussions. Corba Ecommerce has very interesting and thorough models of workflows, including UML diagrams and even an XML format for defining state machines. Sorry, this may be old news as I don't have time to follow up the actual threads beyond the first messages. But if not, anyone designing such a system for Zope *must* study the Corba stuff. Email me direct if the URLs haven't been published in the discussions and I'll be happy to dig them up (hard to find within www.omg.org). Or, (easier for me), I can email the (large) .pdf files direct. I also know that WfMC (Workflow Management Coalition, www.wfmc.org) has adopted many of OMG's workflow concepts in the past. I am not sure if what you are referring to is recent new development by OMG. For a diagram of WfMC's workflow reference model see the diagrams at: http://www.zope.org/Members/aboulang Regards, Albert Boulanger vPatch Technologies [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
This may be the link you were thinking of: http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/corba_business_specifications _av2.htm with the Corba Workflow Specification available as a .PDF. Thanks for the interesting URLs on workflow discussions. Corba Ecommerce has very interesting and thorough models of workflows, including UML diagrams and even an XML format for defining state machines. Sorry, this may be old news as I don't have time to follow up the actual threads beyond the first messages. But if not, anyone designing such a system for Zope *must* study the Corba stuff. Email me direct if the URLs haven't been published in the discussions and I'll be happy to dig them up (hard to find within www.omg.org). Or, (easier for me), I can email the (large) .pdf files direct. I also know that WfMC (Workflow Management Coalition, www.wfmc.org) has adopted many of OMG's workflow concepts in the past. I am not sure if what you are referring to is recent new development by OMG. For a diagram of WfMC's workflow reference model see the diagrams at: http://www.zope.org/Members/aboulang ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
[Jerry] This may be the link you were thinking of: http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/corba_business_specifications _av2.htm with the Corba Workflow Specification available as a .PDF. [AlbertL] Yes. The Task and Session spec there is also very relevant. The Workflow Spec is based directly on the work done by the Workflow Management Coalition mentioned by Albert Boulanger. I haven't checked the original (1993) from the coalition but the Corba document is more modern (1.20, April 2000) with UML diagrams as well as IDL and diagrams similar to those on Albert Boulanger's web page. However I am also referring to the "Corba Electronic Commerce Domain Specifications" 1.0 which I don't think is listed among omg formal published documents yet. This extends to concepts such as "Community", "Membership", "Collaboration" and "Voting" which I think are highly relevant to PTK. Plus detailed elaboration of state machine triggers and transitions etc and more specifically ecommerce related stuff on negotiations and contractual obligations. The related "Negotiation Facility" is listed at: http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/recent/corba_e-commerce.htm and also worth a look. But the one I particularly recommend isn't even listed on their home page: http://www.omg.org/homepages/ecdtf/index.htm Had a good look now, but I'm afraid I've lost the URL for it. Can email a copy (1MB). I was also referring to the "OSM Digital Product Architecture", 20 November 2000, which has the XML state machines spec. http://home.osm.net/supporting/index.html http://home.osm.net/supporting/DPA.0011B.pdf Strongly recommend close study of all of these. (A lot has happened since 1993 ;-) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Workflow and document management system in Zope
I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database. It should be demonstrablable (at least showable into a proof of concept) within 2 weeks and be already installable and usable within 2 or 3 months. (I have obtained taoday that the date when we'll decide on the system would be postponed 2 weeks from wednesday 24/1 to wed 7/2) If I could find such a marvel, I may find the money to pay for it, at least 5 $ to start with (this amount is a rapid guess; I may give more precise amounts we could spend in the following week) The idea is to use that combination of tools INSTEAD of buying a closed, proprietary solution (that may exist but be expensive and really har to parametrize), that NEED to be linked to a SAP ERP system. All suggestions and ideas are welcome, also on the selection criteria. (I happen to be responsible for the IT dept of the public institution that wants to buy such a tool, but be new in the place and do not yet know a lot about WF and EDM !) Soon I may be able to give you more details about the requirements. I don't think there is such as system polished and ready within 2 weeks. Here are some starting points: use wftk as a basis, the open source workflow toolkit -- http://.vivtek.com/wftk use openflow, a Zope based, but stalled project, http://openflow.sourceforge.net use Chautauqua, an old python based workflow system, http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~carlosm/chautauqua.html use the old UCI Endeavors workflow (java) system at http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/endeavors/endeavors.html We have not bit the bullet and built anything yet. Regards, Albert Boulanger [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Thank you very much for your rapid answer. I will look deeper to that as soon as tomorrow as I will have to decide for such products from corporate proposals versus free software products next week. For you, when would such products be considered ready for production ? If I can have a demonstration rapidly (unfortunately I do not yet know Zope personnally but I shall look for help locally), I may even get funds to help and foster the complementary developpement. Best regards, Nicolas Le Jeudi 18 Janvier 2001 23:38, Spicklemire, Jerry a crit : Nicolas said: I am looking for two products: a professional workflow and a electronic document management system, preferably in Zope or opensource if not in Zope. These 2 applications should be able to work together. Some of this is now in the Portal Toolkit (PTK) soon to be re-named and re-launched at the release of the long awaited version 1. This is the bag of tricks that the Digital Creations gang uses to whip out massive, stat-of-the-art Web extravaganzas at light speed. You can download the pre-beta at: http://classic.zope.org:8080/Community/CVS_public_access Also, you may be interested in the tools developed for the Zope Documentation Project, at: http://www.zope.org/Members/roeder Lots of other folks are very interested in these topics, I'm sure you'll get some positive feedback to your questions. Later, Jerry S. -- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du Prou 29 B-1000 Brussels ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
