Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

libttf was one example and because it made its way into 9legacy i inspected it. > Are you implying that a majority of users are using Plan9 in a commercial > setting? That seems a bit absurd. > For personal use I think these license issues (if they do even exist) are of > no concern. I think

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 8:53 PM ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > Not a single developer who uses plan9 for distributed systems, commercial > products will dare to use a system like 9front as the sources. The reason > is quite simple : > > You ignore copyrights as you please and

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Some excellent advice so far I have to say. A reasonable assumption is that I am at least a linux user (entirely accurate, I installed slackware from floppies a long time ago when the world was new and 486es were still moderately expensive). Would a BASIC interpreter count as an operating system I

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On 5/12/24 22:52, ibrahim via 9fans wrote: > On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 5:09 AM, Jacob Moody wrote: >> When people suggest tossing that all out for a minimally patched 4e, I think >> some people rightfully feel a bit annoyed. That's a lot of baby that goes >> out with that bathwater. > > It's

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Thank you, Ibrahim, for your comments. I can see where my suggestions do not make sense. It is too difficult a challenge for the communities to envisage. If no one can envisage it, then no one can do it. Vic On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 12:52, ibrahim wrote: > On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 5:09

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 5:09 AM, Jacob Moody wrote: > When people suggest tossing that all out for a minimally patched 4e, I think > some people rightfully feel a bit annoyed. That's a lot of baby that goes out with that bathwater. It's Davids decission what he includes as patches for the

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

The approach is effective in open source projects when there are leaders who excel in communication, provide a clear vision, and prioritize objectives. Its effectiveness diminishes in the absence of strong communication and planning. Clear expectations generally facilitate easier collaboration

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On 5/12/24 20:46, Dan Cross wrote: > On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 9:33 PM wrote: >> I don't think this approach has ever worked in >> the open source world -- it always starts with >> someone building something useful. The vision >> and goal is defined by the work being done. >> >> After something

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Sorry for the double post ... try to use an older version of 9legacy cause after the integration of 9git in the latest CD a full system compile will stop. I don't know why such software which can't be considered a patch to the 4th edition became part of the src tree instead of putting it in a

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:17 AM, clinton wrote: > If I were completely naive to actually  running plan9 but with many clues > about other operating systems and hardware, would it be better for me to > install 9legacy on some mildly obsolescent but still quite serviceable and > reliable

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 11:46:59AM +0930, clinton wrote: > I await the scorching flames for my great impudence of interjecting into a > vociferous discussion with such a pragmatic tangent! If you don't intend to have anything hanging out with a direct internet connection, just use whatever looks

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

9front and 9legacy look very similar to the untrained eye. The way you use them is nearly identical, but there are a lot of small bits of polish added to 9front, as well as a number of larger tools and utilities. Even 9legacy binaries run on 9front. (And vice versa, as long as the binaries don't

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

As a very long time lurker to the plan9 mailing list, something occasionally catches my eye strewn amongst the arcana. The very first computer I ever actually touched was in 1979, it had these state of the ark mag stripe cardboard cards which held the enormous amount of 2kb. It wasn't mine, my

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 09:46:12PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > > So what is it, exactly, that people want? The only people who feel like there's some conflict to resolve are people who do not use the software and have nothing to offer except for social commentary. This "us vs them" shit is only of

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 9:33 PM wrote: > I don't think this approach has ever worked in > the open source world -- it always starts with > someone building something useful. The vision > and goal is defined by the work being done. > > After something useful is built, people start > to join in and

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 09:21:20AM +0900, vester.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote: > unclear who exactly is responsible. Typically, a team of two or more > individuals would focus on these deliverables. nobody is "responsible" and there are no "deliverables" the people who covet bureaucracy have

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

I don't think this approach has ever worked in the open source world -- it always starts with someone building something useful. The vision and goal is defined by the work being done. After something useful is built, people start to join in and contribute. After enough people join in, it makes

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

The complexity of communication in this medium often necessitates detailed discussions. You highlighted the need for additional personnel to manage the workload (e.g. do the work). From my perspective, this requires a well-defined vision, clear objectives, and a prioritized list of

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 12:44 PM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > 23h...@gmail.com: > > sorry for ignoring your ideas about a p9sk3, but is your mentioning of > > ocam's razor implying that dp9ik is too complicated? > > is there any other reason to stick with DES instead of AES in > >

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 02:16:47PM +0100, Richard Miller wrote: > > That's quadrillions of years. Not what most people would call "trivial". > And that's generously assuming the implementation of meet-in-the-middle > is zero cost. Without meet-in-the-middle, we're looking at a 168-bit > keyspace

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

Quoth o...@eigenstate.org: > Quoth Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com>: > > I'm using a new subject [was: Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front] > > in the hope of continuing discussion of the vulnerability of p9sk1 without > > too many other distractions. > > > > mo...@posixcafe.org said: >

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

that's not what I said. Quoth vic.thac...@fastmail.fm: > I agree that having a clear vision and charter is essential before forming a > team. Regarding building an inclusive Plan 9 community that encompasses > multiple groups, it's important to establish common goals and values that > resonate

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

to answer my own question: > Who is Eric Grosse? > author = "Russ Cox and Eric Grosse and Rob Pike and Dave Presotto and Sean Quinlan", title ="Security in {Plan 9}", -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

Quoth Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com>: > I'm using a new subject [was: Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front] > in the hope of continuing discussion of the vulnerability of p9sk1 without > too many other distractions. > > mo...@posixcafe.org said: > > If we agree that: > > > > 1) p9sk1

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

> I thought of 3DES in the first instance because of this desire to be > minimally disruptive. Support for DES is already there and tested. > 3DES only needs extra keys in /mnt/keys, and because 3DES encryption > with all three keys the same becomes single DES, there's a graceful > fallback when

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Thank you, Hiro, for your insights. I apologize to everyone for my intense and fervent approach; I acknowledge that I often overlook subtleties. To add a bit of humor, even my son has saved my contact as "Rambo" in his mobile phone. :-) Vic On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 00:55, hiro wrote: > this

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

23h...@gmail.com: > sorry for ignoring your ideas about a p9sk3, but is your mentioning of > ocam's razor implying that dp9ik is too complicated? > is there any other reason to stick with DES instead of AES in > particular? i'm not a cryptographer by any means, but just curious. My comments are

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

this is mostly wild speculation. further, the numbers are not representative at all. since the import of the (possibly redundent) 9k amd64 work from "labs" (which in this case might mean geoff+charles?) 2 years ago there were zero active developers contributing to 9legacy. please note, that stuff

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

On 5/12/24 08:16, Richard Miller wrote: > I'm using a new subject [was: Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front] > in the hope of continuing discussion of the vulnerability of p9sk1 without > too many other distractions. > > mo...@posixcafe.org said: >> If we agree that: >> >> 1) p9sk1 allows

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

My understanding is that the initial request came from a 9legacy member to the 9front community, and the responses were quite intriguing. It has led me to ponder how we might bridge the gap between these communities. There seems to be conflict on both sides, and for some reason, I hold 9front

Re: [9fans] best place to be sent a patch

Thank you, David, hiro. I'm going to try to update libsec, if it works, I will send a patch to both David and here. 2024年5月12日(日) 23:39 hiro <23h...@gmail.com>: > > best is here on the mailinglist as you can attach the patches easily, > and even if david doesn't have time to respond, others

Re: [9fans] best place to be sent a patch

best is here on the mailinglist as you can attach the patches easily, and even if david doesn't have time to respond, others here might help you on the path, others might appreciate taking part in your adventure and others might learn from it, too. i guess you can cc david if getting into 9legacy

Re: [9fans] best place to be sent a patch

> I have a question: where is the *best* place to be sent a patch for > 9legacy? replica? GitHub? or here? You can send it by e-mail to me. -- David du Colombier -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

[9fans] best place to be sent a patch

I have a question: where is the *best* place to be sent a patch for 9legacy? replica? GitHub? or here? I'm motivated, but I don't like to get no feedback as before. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

sorry for ignoring your ideas about a p9sk3, but is your mentioning of ocam's razor implying that dp9ik is too complicated? is there any other reason to stick with DES instead of AES in particular? i'm not a cryptographer by any means, but just curious. On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 3:17 PM Richard

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

I'm stepping back to listen. Perhaps you're not a software engineer. It is good to discuss before starting. Vic On Sun, May 12, 2024, at 22:11, hiro wrote: > why step back. step forward and put your money where your mouth is. > > On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 2:42 PM wrote: >> >> Thank you for

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Sun May 12 14:43:17 +0200 2024, vester.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote: > I don't mind the ad hominem attacks. I just hope things improve. I do find > it ironic that I'm addressing the 9front community about collaboration and > inclusiveness when I recall those as being two reasons for the

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

"what you really want"... Fuck, now I have the Spice Girls song in mind : / -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-M936ff37e60f8d604f9181726 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

I'm using a new subject [was: Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front] in the hope of continuing discussion of the vulnerability of p9sk1 without too many other distractions. mo...@posixcafe.org said: > If we agree that: > > 1) p9sk1 allows the shared secret to be brute-forced offline. > 2)

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

There's no attack, just questions. Let's say we speak with someone who rely on LLMs to get his point but still have a "need" that doesn't seem to be fulfilled by the community. I have real questions: What are your motivations? Why don't you simply ask for what you want personally and stop

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

why step back. step forward and put your money where your mouth is. On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 2:42 PM wrote: > > Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I want to clarify that my intention is > not to exert control or disrupt, but to foster better collaboration between > communities. I understand

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

what fears? i welcome you making this collaboration greater by helping out the people that already are busy collaborating. thank you. On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 1:58 PM wrote: > > Why the fear about collaborating? Wouldn't greater 9legacy and 9front > collaboration be something good for the Plan

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I want to clarify that my intention is not to exert control or disrupt, but to foster better collaboration between communities. I understand that there may be concerns about redundancy and approaches, which is why I believe a dialogue about our common goals

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

The collaboration is already here. You try to create tools that already exist. I'd like to pinpoint why you have this unbelievable need for control and wonder if you're not just working for Microsoft, Google or the guy who stole Freenode and just try to disrupt the plan9 community.

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Why the fear about collaborating? Wouldn't greater 9legacy and 9front collaboration be something good for the Plan 9 community? Vic On Sun, May 12, 2024, at 20:53, hiro wrote: >> How can we ensure that everyone feels valued and heard? > > easy. stop spamming LLM garbage and start

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

> How can we ensure that everyone feels valued and heard? easy. stop spamming LLM garbage and start contributing concise code and documentation, not this blabber. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

I agree that having a clear vision and charter is essential before forming a team. Regarding building an inclusive Plan 9 community that encompasses multiple groups, it's important to establish common goals and values that resonate with all members. What are your thoughts on creating open

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Thanks Jacob for catching the mistake. Vic On Sun, May 12, 2024, at 16:12, Jacob Moody wrote: > You just sent to this to just me, not the list. Shame not everyone > could see this LLM drivel :( > > On 5/12/24 00:46, vic.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote: >> I've noticed the growing divide within our

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

"tl;dr: you need people doing the work before you can try to organize them; the way to get people doing the work is to bootstrap it by doing work and showing value." [from Ori]. or "Don't be the kid who can't play [whatever]ball but wants to teach everybody and be the team coach, just because

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

I've gone ahead and made a repository[0] for an up to date fossil* for 9front. I didn't have to do more then clone the 4e repository, apply the 9legacy patches and type mk. Took all of 10 minutes. Testing is left as an exercise for the reader. * No warranty given or implied. [0]

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Perhaps adopting this mindset could be beneficial. When developing a feature, it's worth considering its potential for portability and usefulness to other communities. Vic On Sun, May 12, 2024, at 07:27, hiro wrote: > just send the code then > > On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 12:22 AM wrote: >> >>

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

just send the code then On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 12:22 AM wrote: > > Let me explain my intent and elaborate on my point of view. I started a new > thread to enhance the signal-to-noise ratio. It's easy for a thread to become > cluttered with multiple issues, so I believe creating separate

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Let me explain my intent and elaborate on my point of view. I started a new thread to enhance the signal-to-noise ratio. It's easy for a thread to become cluttered with multiple issues, so I believe creating separate threads for distinct concerns helps streamline communication and keeps

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

Sorry, that was just a courtesy. But don't worry I'll name it after you and another comedic hero Don Rickles. On Sat, May 11, 2024, 2:05 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > i do mind. please do not. but thanks for this medium-to-low-quality > trolling attempt. > > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:00 

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

i do mind. please do not. but thanks for this medium-to-low-quality trolling attempt. On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:00 PM Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > Hiro, I hope you don't mind if I use your correspondence on 9fans to train a > very annoying LLM. > > On Sat, May 11, 2024, 1:30 PM hiro

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

Hiro, I hope you don't mind if I use your correspondence on 9fans to train a very annoying LLM. On Sat, May 11, 2024, 1:30 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hey! It's a nice day out. A bit chilly with some wind, but sunny. I > > don't know about you, but I'm going fishing. > > oh, i guess

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

> Hey! It's a nice day out. A bit chilly with some wind, but sunny. I > don't know about you, but I'm going fishing. oh, i guess you are not Fish? i confused you. why are you speaking for Fish though, it's his decision to put it into 9legacy, no? -- 9fans:

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 4:17 PM Jacob Moody wrote: > On 5/11/24 14:59, Dan Cross wrote: > > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:36 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> explanation of dp9ik, which while useful, only > >>> addresses what (I believe) Richard was referring to in passing, simply > >>> noting

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On 5/11/24 14:59, Dan Cross wrote: > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:36 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> explanation of dp9ik, which while useful, only >>> addresses what (I believe) Richard was referring to in passing, simply >>> noting the small key size of DES and how the shared secret is >>>

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 4:05 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > are you discontinuing 9legacy? I'm not doing anything, just explaining why it hasn't happened. Hey! It's a nice day out. A bit chilly with some wind, but sunny. I don't know about you, but I'm going fishing. - Dan C.

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

are you discontinuing 9legacy? On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 10:01 PM Dan Cross wrote: > > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:52 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > it's YOUR fork, why aren't you doing it? > > For a simple reason: time. > > The work to integrate it in isn't technically that difficult, but >

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:52 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > it's YOUR fork, why aren't you doing it? For a simple reason: time. The work to integrate it in isn't technically that difficult, but requires time, which is always in short supply. - Dan C. > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:36 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > explanation of dp9ik, which while useful, only > > addresses what (I believe) Richard was referring to in passing, simply > > noting the small key size of DES and how the shared secret is > > vulnerable to dictionary attacks. > > i

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

it's YOUR fork, why aren't you doing it? On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:47 AM David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'd be very pleased if someone could port the > dp9ik authentication protocol to 9legacy. > > -- > David du Colombier -- 9fans:

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

> explanation of dp9ik, which while useful, only > addresses what (I believe) Richard was referring to in passing, simply > noting the small key size of DES and how the shared secret is > vulnerable to dictionary attacks. i don't remember what richard was mentioning, but the small key size wasn't

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:26 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 12:59 PM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > > From: o...@eigenstate.org > > > ... > > > keep in mind that it can literally be brute forced in an > > > afternoon by a teenager[1][2]; even a gpu

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 12:59 PM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > From: o...@eigenstate.org > > ... > > keep in mind that it can literally be brute forced in an > > afternoon by a teenager[1][2]; even a gpu isn't needed to do > > this in a reasonable amount of time.[1] > > [citation

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

> I suspect no-one wanted to maintain it (in 9front) I think you meant: I suspect no-one wanted to maintain it. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tde2ca2adda383a3a-Mc64391ded8c1eeadfa19aa14 Delivery options:

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

congrats for teaching the bot to create more email threads with new subjects. just what we need as a community. On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 4:55 PM Lucio De Re wrote: > > I guess we're on the same page, right up and including the fist fight(s). But > I think we are all entitled to be treated more

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

I'd be very pleased if someone could port the dp9ik authentication protocol to 9legacy. -- David du Colombier -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tde2ca2adda383a3a-Md268ebc03be7431c29cb1d30 Delivery options:

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

For the sake of time I am going to just reply here after reading all of the existing thread On 5/10/24 03:17, Lucio De Re wrote: >> why don't you just let 9legacy die? > > You are not paying attention: I have a multi-gigabyte commitment to Fossil. I > am not convinced *I* could "just port"

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

I guess we're on the same page, right up and including the fist fight(s). But I think we are all entitled to be treated more courteously in a public forum such as this, including not ascribing malice unless it is explicit. Being touchy has plagued this forum just about forever, it would be nicer

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On 5/10/24 05:58, Richard Miller wrote: >> From: o...@eigenstate.org >> ... >> keep in mind that it can literally be brute forced in an >> afternoon by a teenager; even a gpu isn't needed to do >> this in a reasonable amount of time. > > [citation needed] > Two people have independently broken

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

> > What I notice - correct me if I am mistaken - is that any comparison between > 9front and 9legacy seems to needle a few members (very few, there are many > names from that community that have not participated, specifically the ones I > know hand have long respectes, ask them) of the 9front

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Most certainly not. I called him Jacob in my first response, but that was followed by someone using the surname and I thought I had originally got the surname wrong, probably by reading it wrong in the incoming message. I did consider being wrong, but I thought someone would correct me. Now you

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Fri May 10 13:55:58 +0200 2024, lucio.d...@gmail.com wrote: > I am not allowed to ignore some advice when Vic raises a much more > interesting subject matter and does it in a perfectly justified and well > formulated fashion - and gets accused of being an AI or at minimum playing > one on

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

Out of curiosity regarding your problem at hand Lucio : You could use 9vx on 9legacy to establish a connection directly. You said you have an optical drive on your old machine so why don't you just use the 9legacy CD ROM ? You could also put your drive in an external hd case and access it

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

His name is Moody, you keep spelling it differently in what I can only assume is a passive aggressive way to insult him? — thedæmon On Friday, May 10th, 2024 at 6:53 AM, Lucio De Re wrote: > I am not allowed to ignore some advice when Vic raises a much more > interesting subject matter and

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Just to be clear, I have nothing against getting aid from an AI in expanding ideas. I just recognised the verbose style. Got nothing to reply on the content Il 10 maggio 2024 13:53:56 CEST, Lucio De Re ha scritto: >formulated fashion - and gets accused of being an AI or at minimum playing

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

I am not allowed to ignore some advice when Vic raises a much more interesting subject matter and does it in a perfectly justified and well formulated fashion - and gets accused of being an AI or at minimum playing one on 9fans? How do you know that I did not follow any of Moodley's advice, which

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

> From: o...@eigenstate.org > ... > keep in mind that it can literally be brute forced in an > afternoon by a teenager; even a gpu isn't needed to do > this in a reasonable amount of time. [citation needed] -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Fri May 10 11:09:32 +0200 2024, lucio.d...@gmail.com wrote: > I'm finding it ironic, though, that the defenders of the true 9front faith > find it necessary to insult their "enemies" in a forum dedicated to the > very subject matter they are so disapproving of. Surely they realise that > 9fans

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Vic, > I'm exploring whether there's interest in more collaboration. It would be beneficial to focus on critiquing ideas rather than individuals. The assertion of one's individuality and superiority is generational; what the proponents of that attitude are missing is that it is also a

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

Granted, but neither 9front nor 9legacy are tied to any promise of support. All it took in the past was to include an indication in the /sys/src/cmd/mkfile that the code for Fossil should not be compiled and deployed as part of any installation. By omitting the sources, as I explained, it denied

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Thanks! I’ve been practicing my impersonation. Want to hear my human impression next? The goal of writing is to articulate ideas in a clear and comprehensive manner. If I were unclear, I apologize. I realize that reading a lengthy post can be a bit demanding on your time. Thank you for your

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

> > (if it was all that easy, why was it discarded entirely? I suspect no-one wanted to maintain it (in 9front). > Permalink > > -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

> why don't you just let 9legacy die? You are not paying attention: I have a multi-gigabyte commitment to Fossil. I am not convinced *I* could "just port" Fossil to 9front (if it was all that easy, why was it discarded entirely?) and I don't have the hardware to migrate the data to a different

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Is it just me noticing this is chatgpt? Il 10 maggio 2024 06:44:48 CEST, vic.thac...@fastmail.fm ha scritto: >Hi Hiro et al, > >I view Plan 9 4th Edition as a version that remains largely unchanged, serving >as a snapshot in time, while 9legacy represents an active, distinct >distribution.

Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

Hi Hiro et al, I view Plan 9 4th Edition as a version that remains largely unchanged, serving as a snapshot in time, while 9legacy represents an active, distinct distribution. Conversely, 9front is a fork that has evolved significantly from Plan 9 4th Edition, making considerable advancements

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

no clue which conflict you're seeing, vic. there's been some trolling back and forth since forever, there's been complaints and contributions, and more complaints about the contributions and the lack of contributions. as it should be. we can have one united community if you like but then i hope

Re: [9fans] Re: Raspberry pi with a largish screen?

Thank you, this exact set of lines ends up being exactly right for driving my  LG 27UK850-W at 1/4 resolution (native resolution would need some work put into the window system and fonts to be more comfortable). I don't believe I'd tried the max_framebuffer_* or hdmi_pixel_freq_limit settings

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

> Installing fossil on 9front is not really difficult. Correct. You only need to grab the source of it from your favorite vendor, place it into right places and build it like any other system program. Here's a script I wrote some years ago to do exactly that:

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

keep in mind that it can literally be brute forced in an afternoon by a teenager; even a gpu isn't needed to do this in a reasonable amount of time. Quoth Lucas Francesco : > https://seh.dev/p9sk1/ > > On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 08:01, Lucio De Re wrote: > > > > That seems simple enough, but "enable

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

https://seh.dev/p9sk1/ On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 08:01, Lucio De Re wrote: > > That seems simple enough, but "enable p9sk1 for the hostowner on 9front" > isn't something I'm familiar with. Is it an additional attribute in the > network database that I am not aware of? > > I will check the manual

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

Installing fossil on 9front is not really difficult. Fossil is just a userland server which probably can even be copied as a binary, as long as the cpu is the same. Here are the hostowner factotum/ctl readout from the auth server: key proto=p9sk1 user=bootes dom=fritz.box  !password? key 

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

That seems simple enough, but "enable p9sk1 for the hostowner on 9front" isn't something I'm familiar with. Is it an additional attribute in the network database that I am not aware of? I will check the manual pages, although I'm not sure what to look for. I did note when creating a user or

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

Thank you, Vic, for your efforts. My perceptions about the conflicts that seem to be stirred by any posts that compares 9front with the original, poorly defined, shall we say, "heritage" Plan 9 release are well reflected in your original, detailed posting. I was planning to address the issue, but

Re: [9fans] Re: Raspberry pi with a largish screen?

I'm using a Lenovo C32Q-20 with that config.txt and it works perfectly. On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 5:55 AM wrote: > Thanks, that’s promising. What’s your monitor? > *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions > + participants >

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

I am using fossil on plan9port (which should be similar to 9legacy) from 9front. The only thing which I needed was to enable p9sk1 for the hostowner on 9front  (the auth server) and a factotum entry for this in the file server, IIRC. -- 9fans: 9fans

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

Hi Hiro et al, This mailing list is focused on Plan 9 discussions. Noticing conflicts between the 9legacy and 9front communities indicates that adopting collaborative strategies could be advantageous. In my detailed post, I aimed to provide a comprehensive overview to fully encapsulate the

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