Re: [9fans] atom.9atom.org mirror?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Thank you, thank you!  Exactly what I was after!
Much appreciated!

-Ben



From: David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:42 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] atom.9atom.org mirror?

>  That's exactly what I'm looking for. How might I access that?

http://mirror.9grid.fr/mirror.9grid.fr/atom-2017-09-17.tar.bz2

--
David du Colombier

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Permalink: 
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Re: [9fans] atom.9atom.org mirror?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

>I have a copy of the the 9atom 9P repository dated from 2017-09-17,
>if that's what you're looking for.


That's exactly what I'm looking for.  How might I access that?

Thank you so much!

-Ben



From: David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 12:09 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] atom.9atom.org mirror?

>  Does anyone know if anyone had a mirror of atom.9atom.org before it
> went offline?

I have a copy of the the 9atom 9P repository dated from 2017-09-17,
if that's what you're looking for.

--
David du Colombier

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[9fans] atom.9atom.org mirror?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Does anyone know if anyone had a mirror of atom.9atom.org before it went 
offline?

Thanks so much!

-Ben


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[9fans] Rebuild 9atom?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Is anyone here still running 9atom?  (Or is 9front the only variant anyone uses 
anymore?)

With some work I got 9atom installed from the USB image into a VMware VM, using 
the 9paed kernel.  However, I ran into a few issues:

- Both the 386 PAE and amd64 kernels seem to recognize the VMware SATA 
controller, neither recognizes the virtual disk attached.  The 386 PAE kernel 
boots just fine with the disk attached as IDE.  The amd64 kernel as supplied 
doesn't have IDE disk support.  I tried to add it back in but for whatever 
reason it still doesn't work.

- Both kernels boot from the USB key just fine.  However, regardless of booted 
from disk or from USB, both seem to not idle the CPU, so VMware throws a high 
CPU use alarm for the VM.  The "stock" Plan 9 uses very little resources on 
VMware.  Does anyone know why that is, or where to look to investigate that 
behavior?

- Something is different between the delivered kernels and the sources.  At 
least for 9paed.  Doing nothing other than rebuilding the sources results in a 
kernel that panics just before the boot args prompt.

Aside from those things I'm really excited to have 9atom running in a VM, even 
if I'm really late to the party!  Unfortunately the rebuild issue means I can't 
get a CPU kernel built and booted.

As a side note, it also boots and runs fine on my X1 Carbon (Gen1), which is a 
nice machine, but sadly the TrackPoint doesn't work, only the touchpad, and I 
really hate the X1's touchpad.

Anyway, thanks all!

-Ben


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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 64-bit?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Anyone manage to get any of the 64-bit stuff running on VMware recently?  I’ve 
only had luck with 9front recently...

Thanks!

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

[Benjamin Huntsman]

This has been a fascinating thread.

I was kind of surprised that no one came out and said "yes, 9front all the 
way", nor did anyone say they had 9atom working.
Ideally, I'd like to have 9atom on VMware, but since it isn't maintained 
anymore either, 9front looks like the way to go.  9legacy might be truer to the 
original, but it doesn't work on VMware out of the box.  I know VMware isn't 
the favorite virtualization platform of everyone on here, but there's a lot of 
production on VMware...

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

[Benjamin Huntsman]

> Out of curiosity, what's your use case for the NIX kernel?


Use case??  My use case for NIX, and Plan 9 in general, is basically "fun" and 
"curiosity".  For my day job I run AIX, IBM i, and Windows when I have to 
(which is a lot) :)






From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net <9fans-boun...@9fans.net> on behalf of Giacomo 
Tesio <giac...@tesio.it>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:20 PM
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Subject: Re: [9fans] There is no fork

2018-02-12 0:48 GMT+01:00 Benjamin Huntsman <bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu>:
> Or, if one wants NIX but to stay a little closer to the original
> distribution, are there options, or is Harvey the only way?

Out of curiosity, what's your use case for the NIX kernel?


@Lyndon: https://bitbucket.org/forsyth/plan9-9k
forsyth / plan9-9k — Bitbucket<https://bitbucket.org/forsyth/plan9-9k>
bitbucket.org
Source for an experimental 64-bit Plan 9 kernel, and supporting software. It 
features a revised memory-management system, MCS spin locks, and other changes 
to system ...




@Rui: Jehanne diverged a lot from Plan 9, in a pursuit for my vision
of simplicity.
While it's in no way a Unix, many won't even consider it a Plan 9
system. Still for anyone interested: http://jehanne.io
Jehanne<http://jehanne.io/>
jehanne.io
Jehanne, an operating system derived from Plan9. Introduction overview, screen 
shot, Joan Documentation





Giacomo

Re: [9fans] There is no fork

[Benjamin Huntsman]

> 9atom and 9front are both actively maintained.


It seems like 9atom is not actually actively maintained any longer.  I hope 
Erik sees this and refutes me, though!

I was aware of Harvey, Jehanne, and plan9-9k, though I didn't mention them 
because I wasn't sure how "mainstream" they were, or if there was active 
development in the case of plan9-9k.  Please pardon me. :)


To be honest, I was sort of hoping to hear someone say that 9atom with the NIX 
kernel is the way to go.  Unfortunately, I mostly use VMware and a few old-ish 
but still 64-bit ThinkPads, and 9atom won't so much as boot on any of them.  
Anyone on here managed to get 9atom to run in VMware or on a W500-series (500, 
520, 530)  ThinkPad?


Or, if one wants NIX but to stay a little closer to the original distribution, 
are there options, or is Harvey the only way?


Anyway, I also want to say thank you to the smart people on this list who have 
maintained and advanced Plan 9 in its various forms over the years!!


Thanks.


-Ben



From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net <9fans-boun...@9fans.net> on behalf of Giacomo 
Tesio <giac...@tesio.it>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:26 AM
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Subject: Re: [9fans] There is no fork

To my knowledge this is the set of active projects based on Plan 9:

9atom and 9front are both actively maintained.
Both stick strongly to the original Plan 9 from Bell Labs design.
AFAIK, 9front introduce more innovations, both in kernel and in user
space, but what make it unique is the #cat-v community.

9legacy is not a really fork, but an organized collection of patches,
and is still actively maintained.
Another non-fork active project is Plan 9-ANTS
(http://www.9gridchan.org/ ) which also provides a 9front-based amd64
iso and a free 9P grid online.

Harvey's kernel is based on NIX, and AFAIK, it's the only project
where NIX development is active.

Forsyth's Plan-9k had some development in mid 2017.
It's 2015 version was the starting point of Jehanne's kernel, which is
my own research operating system (that also includes several of
9front's improvements).
Jehanne is the project that diverged most from the original Plan9
design, with its own set of crazy decisions, but currently it's an
unstable toy.


Giacomo

2018-02-10 3:48 GMT+01:00 Benjamin Huntsman <bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu>:
> Just curious as to the state of the union.  Is 9front pretty much the de
> facto "official" Plan 9 these days, or does anyone still use or maintain any
> of the following:
>
>
> 9atom
>
> NIX
>
> 9legacy
>
> The original Bell Labs distribution
>
>
> Thanks for your input!
>
>
> -Ben
>
>

Re: [9fans] software archaeology

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Not bad, not bad... now what aren't you willing to admit to? :)  haha


I also have two different copies of the 3rd Edition plan9.9gz, one from 2000 
and one from 2001, plus a handful of patch 9gz files, and one floppy image that 
I can't get to boot.  I have printed 3rd Edition manuals but Charles was out of 
boxed sets by the time I tried to make a purchase.


I'm happy to share all the 3rd Edition stuff I have, but I was really hoping 
that a different variation of the 3rd Edition boot floppy would shake out from 
this.  However, thanks for looking!


Also, what's on your 3rd Edition CD?  Is it bootable, or is it just the 
plan9.9gz burned onto a disc?

Thanks much!

-Ben



From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net <9fans-boun...@9fans.net> on behalf of Steve 
Simon <st...@quintile.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 2:59 PM
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Subject: Re: [9fans] software archaeology

ok, i spike too soon

what i have (and am willing to admit to :-):

ed 2 cd and floppy set
ed 3 cd, box and manuals - i don’t believe there was a 3rd floppy, perhaps 
Charles can confirm?

there was a demo floppy for the 1st and 2nd edition. i had the demo for the 1st 
but can no longer find it.

SL has the 2nd ed demo floppy available on his site:
http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/1995/
1995 - plan9.stanleylieber.com<http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/1995/>
plan9.stanleylieber.com
1995. A few years ago I stumbled across this Plan 9 press kit from 1995 on 
eBay. p95.flp - floppy disk image. pcdist.tgz - four disk floppy set from Plan 
9 website ...



he also had the 2nd ed floppy images.

-Steve


On 9 Feb 2018, at 16:40, Joseph Stewart 
<joseph.stew...@gmail.com<mailto:joseph.stew...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If a 3-1/2" USB floppy drive would make this easier, I have one sitting unused 
in a box and will gladly send to you on my own dime without any strings 
attached.
-joe

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 12:20 AM, Steve Simon 
<st...@quintile.net<mailto:st...@quintile.net>> wrote:
hi,

i have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ed floppies, a bigger problem will be to find a floppy 
drive...

i will try and generate some images.

-Steve



On 5 Feb 2018, at 04:24, Benjamin Huntsman 
<bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu<mailto:bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu>> wrote:


Bizarre and random question, but anyone still have any of the original 3rd 
Edition floppy images around?


Also, anyone remember, did the web-based floppy builder from back in the day 
actually do anything other than tweak the plan9.ini?


Thanks!

[9fans] There is no fork

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Just curious as to the state of the union.  Is 9front pretty much the de facto 
"official" Plan 9 these days, or does anyone still use or maintain any of the 
following:


9atom

NIX

9legacy

The original Bell Labs distribution


Thanks for your input!


-Ben

Re: [9fans] drawterm on osx

[Benjamin Huntsman]

9vx has the same problem...



From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net <9fans-boun...@9fans.net> on behalf of Steve 
Simon 
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 2:49 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: [9fans] drawterm on osx

Anyone built drawterm on osx recently.

On High Serria I get:

screen.c:9:10: fatal error: 'QuickTime/QuickTime.h' file not found
#include  // for full screen

Thanks,

-Steve

[9fans] software archaeology

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Bizarre and random question, but anyone still have any of the original 3rd 
Edition floppy images around?


Also, anyone remember, did the web-based floppy builder from back in the day 
actually do anything other than tweak the plan9.ini?


Thanks!

[9fans] Distros

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Hi!

   Since a similar line of conversation came up recently, I thought I'd ask...

   Maybe this was just my perception, but I remember that years ago, there 
seemed to be a pretty strong aversion to forking the official distribution from 
Bell Labs.  These days I'm not certain where the majority of the activity 
occurs, and which of the forks is the most "official", or at least 
"mainstream"...


   What would be the best place to start in, looking for the most 
current/widely-used distribution with amd64 support?  9front?  9atom?  Other?


As always, many thanks!


-Ben

[9fans] plan9port on AIX

[Benjamin Huntsman]

So, it's been a few years since I did any work on it, but I'm trying to update 
the AIX support a bit.

I know there aren't lots of home AIX users, but it seems everywhere I've worked 
professionally has had gobs of AIX deployed.

My primary goal is to have sam and acme running.

I got lots of stuff building and working, including sam -d.  However, there is 
an issue when trying to run it with the graphical interface, and the problem 
seems vaguely familiar, so I thought I'd throw it out here to see if anyone 
could help with a hint to point me in the right direction...

When I run sam, the samterm window pops up and looks correct.  However, if I 
right-click, the menu pops up, but is empty.  Just a green rectangle with no 
text.  At that point, samterm hangs and I have to kill the sam process.  
Alternatively, if I try to type in the sam command window, it will then hang.

I suspect the issue is in devdraw, because acme exhibits similar behavior.  
Upon launch of acme, an initial empty white window pops up, and then nothing 
happens.  However, unlike sam, the acme process can be stopped using ctrl-c.

Sound familiar?  If not, I'll keep poking at it.

Thanks in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] How to reboot with normal user

[Benjamin Huntsman]

 How does one reboot remotely (from drawterm)?

Couldn't consolefs be rigged to allow certain named users (or a group) to do 
things like what he's asking for?

-Ben

Re: [9fans] How to reboot with normal user

[Benjamin Huntsman]

why would rigging be involved?  it naturally does that.
when i'm doing kernel debugging, this is a pretty natural
way to go:

C victim
victim# ^P
cpu0: exiting


- erik

I thought so.  I just said rigging because I didn't remember how to get it 
set up. :)

-Ben

Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Nice... I was just getting that same error a few days ago when I tried to build 
it too.
I chalked it up to some earlier posts that said something along the lines of 
use a binary from Snow Leopard... and didn't want to ask around to see if 
it's been fixed.

Glad to see I'm not alone... 

-Ben

Re: [9fans] 3e

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Not sure why the licensing question came up.  It was free back then, so I don't 
know why it wouldn't be now, unless Bell Labs revoked the previous license.

More than anything I was trying to figure out the last release date.  I've got 
a plan9.9gz file dated 20010327, and some odd patch files, the largest of which 
is 10140327.9gz dated Oct14, but I'm not sure if that's October 2000 or October 
2001.  Was hoping to hear if anyone had anything newer.  Anyway, no worries... 
just fact-finding.

Many thanks!!

-Ben

[9fans] 3e

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Because I'm a bit of a history buff too, and I'm looking at the Nemo book...
Does anyone remember what the last and final date of the 3rd Edition was, and 
does anyone have the plan9.9gz and floppies around anymore?

I was also trying to remember, did anyone get it working under VMware, or was 
that around the time of early 4th Edition?

Anyway, pardon the odd question and thanks in advance!

-Ben

[9fans] ppxeload nix

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I've downloaded the nix bits from http://code.google.com/p/nix-os/ and compiled 
it under 9vx on OSX, but I'm having some trouble getting the resultant kernel 
to boot.  My target for now is a VMware Fusion VM, which I've got set up to PXE 
boot via nix's ppxeload.  It downloads and runs ppxeload just fine, but there 
appears to be no ether0.  Here's the output on the screen:

Network boot from Intel E1000
Copyright (C) 2003-2008 VMware, Inc.
Copyright (C) 1997-2000 Intel Corporation

CLIENT MAC ADDR: 00 0C 29 D2 AC AC  GUID: 564DA193-9D84-E902-D0E8-F20CCBD2ACAC
CLIENT IP: 10.0.0.133  MASK: 255.255.255.0  DHCP IP: 10.0.0.101
GATEWAY IP: 10.0.0.1
Protected-mode bootstrap...
ELCR: 0E00
cpuidentify: cpuidax 0x306a9 cpuiddx 0xfabfbff
apm ax=f000 cx=f000 dx=40 di= ebx=5770 esi=-1
Boot devices: fd0
boot from: 


I'd think that at this point, I should just be able to type 
ether0!/amd64/9k8cpu, but alas that just gets me another boot from: prompt. 
 One gotcha that I can think of is that my TFTP server is not the same as my 
DHCP server.  Is there a way to specify the TFTP server?  Or am I missing 
something really stupidly simple like ppxeload not supporting the E1000 that 
VMware Fusion emulates, or that my ppxeload binary may need to be recompiled?

Many thanks in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] ppxeload nix

[Benjamin Huntsman]

You should use Plan 9's (new) 9load ...

Does that go for 9pxeload as well?
Is there a way to specify the TFTP server address if it's different than the 
DHCP server?

Thanks!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] dns

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Has anyone else been seeing their Plan 9 dns servers work for a little while 
and then stop responding?

I had that, and other problems with it left and right.  I probably had to 
restart DNS a few times per week.  I was able to get it to support a local 
Windows Active Directory domain though, but it was painful, so I switched to 
BIND on FreeBSD.  I'd love to switch back someday though... the Plan 9-based 
DNS server was much simpler to deal with from a config standpoint...

-Ben

Re: [9fans] lucidasans and 日本語表示

[Benjamin Huntsman]

 The real question is what the default font should be

Not that my opinion counts for anything, but changing the font to latin1.7.font 
(or sometimes typelatin1.7.font) is usually the first thing I do on a fresh 
Plan 9 install. 
It's very readable, and you can fit a whole lot more on an average window the 
the current default pelm.

-Ben

Re: [9fans] dns SRV records

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Investigating the possibility of replacing the MS DNS on Plan9 DNS,not found 
in the man ndb mention of records of type SRV.
It is necessary to support Microsoft Active Directory. Maybe I missed 
something?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record

I got AD to work with Plan 9 DNS just last year.  It didn't work very well, and 
I had problems with the DNS
service dying from time to time and I'd have to go restart it.  Much as I'd 
preferred to have stayed on Plan 9 DNS,
I switched to BIND 9 on OpenBSD and have had far fewer problems.  But anyway, 
here's the Active Directory support 
portion of my /ndb/local.  This supported a domain whose domain was testad.  
Like I said, it works, but not as
seamlessly as MS DNS or BIND 9 with dynamic updates enabled...  (pardon the 
excessive comments)



#
#
# Active Directory support
# See http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd316373.aspx
#
#

#
# Domain Controllers:
#
ip=10.0.0.20 sys=kfdc1 dom=kfdc1.testad.test.local
ether=
ip=10.0.0.21 sys=kfdc2 dom=kfdc2.testad.test.local
ether=005056b36086

#
# requisite CNAME aliases
#
cname=kfdc2.testad.test.local
dom=testad.test.local

cname=kfdc2.testad.test.local
dom=8df1f9af-8c89-4263-9c30-a40ad5ac728f._msdcs.testad.test.local

#
# SRV records, etc
#
dom=testad.test.local soa=
refresh=3600 ttl=3600
ns=ns2.test.local
#ns=ns1.test.local
dnsdomain=testad.test.local


dom=_ldap._tcp.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

dom=_kerberos._tcp.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=88
srv=kfcd2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=88

dom=_kpasswd._udp.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=464
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=464

dom=_kpasswd._tcp.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=464
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=464

dom=_ldap._tcp.dc._msdcs.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

dom=_ldap._tcp.gc._msdcs.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

# only one PDC
dom=_ldap._tcp.pdc._msdcs.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389

dom=_ldap._tcp.KlamathFalls._sites.gc._msdcs.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

dom=_kerberos._tcp.dc._msdcs.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=88
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=88

dom=gc._msdcs.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=3268
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=3268

dom=_gc._tcp.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=3268
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=3268

dom=_ldap._tcp.e3514235-4b06-11d1-ab04-00c04fc2dcd2.domains._msdcs.testad.test.local
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

# Key Management Service
dom=_VLMCS._tcp.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=1688

dom=_ldap._tcp.KlamathFalls._sites.domaindnszones.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

dom=_ldap._tcp.domaindnszones.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

dom=_ldap._tcp.KlamathFalls._sites.forestdnszones.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389

dom=_ldap._tcp.forestdnszones.testad.test.local soa=
srv=kfdc1.testad.test.local pri=0 weight=0 port=389
srv=kfdc2.testad.test.local pri=1 weight=1 port=389



#
#
# End Active Directory Support
#
#

Re: [9fans] FORTRAN and tools [was: Modern development language for Plan 9

[Benjamin Huntsman]

unless your memory confused that with the fact that I can run Blue
Gene binaries produced by XLC/XLF, I don't recall what you mean ...

ron

Haha, yes, that's it.  My memory indeed got confused.  Sorry for the noise!

Re: [9fans] sheevaplug port available

[Benjamin Huntsman]

There's a good chance your /tmp issue is not permissions,
but a lack of /tmp being mounted.  If your hostowner
doesn't have a lib/profile or its lib/profile doesn't
mount /tmp, then you won't be able to write anything
to it.

That was definitely it.  I had been logging into the hostowner profile
but hadn't run newuser.  I ran it, and then the pull worked.  I did have
to use the -s sys/src flag, but anyway, all up to date.  So looks like
having a profile for hostowner is required.  Good to know.

When rebuilding, I did have to change the permissions on /mail/lib/gone.*
in order for 'mk install' to complete, though I suppose I could have added
bootes to the upas group...

but anyway, thanks all for the help!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] sheevaplug port available

[Benjamin Huntsman]

there is a pull script in glenda's bin.  use that.

- erik

I was giving that a shot, but get a few errors.  Looks like it's not pulling 
new files:

! sys/src/cmd/ratrace.c: not replicated; will not update
! sys/src/9/kw/devtwsi.c: not replicated; will not update
! sys/src/9/omap/screen.c: not replicated; will not update
! sys/src/9/omap/screen.h: not replicated; will not update
! sys/src/9/omap/screen.h: not replicated; will not update
! sys/src/9/omap/devuart.c: not replicated; will not update
! sys/src/9/omap/screen.c: not replicated; will not update

Also, I get a bunch of permissions errors, such as the following:

error: copying /n/boot/386/9load: '/tmp/replica00098100' permission denied
error: copying /n/boot/386/9loadask: '/tmp/replica00098100' permission denied
error: copying /n/boot/386/9loaddebug: '/tmp/replica00098100' permission denied

This is on a combined CPU/auth server, and was run as the hostowner (bootes).
Are the permissions wrong out-of-the-box?  Could this be because some 
directories
are owned by sys while others by bootes?  bootes is a member of the sys group, 
but
as we discussed previously, that won't be honored in the current implementation.
So is the proper thing to do to convert a new install to a cpu/file server 
(fossil)
to change ownership of all files to bootes?

Thanks!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] sheevaplug port available

[Benjamin Huntsman]

this is almost certainly incorrect.  (you don't mention you're using 9vx' #Z.)
plan 9 fileservers that store files on disk (fossil, kfs, kenfs, cwfs, etc) do
maintain their own groups.  you may wish to put your fs into allow mode
for pull.

it's plan 9 file servers living in the local kernel, e.g. #c, that don't know 
about
groups.

- erik

Wasn't that what we found just last week regarding the /dev/sd00/nvram thing?  
This is
on native Plan 9, (er, under VMware), not 9vx or anything like that.  The 
filesystem is
fossil, not kfs.

you may wish to put your fs into allow mode for pull.

You can do that on fossil?  I thought you had to have kfs for that?

Thanks!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] sheevaplug port available

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I don't believe you can simply switch fossil into and out of allow mode,
you can specify -P to open to disable permission checking (enable allow)
see fossilcons(8) but that would require a reboot.

As I described before, this should not be necessary, and is not for me.
just run bull as hostowner, i.e. from your server's console.

-Steve

Hmm, I did run pull as the hostowner, and got the errors in the previous post.
I'll check the permissions on /tmp, and I bet you're right there.  Also though,
what about the not replicated; will not update errors?  

Thanks!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] sheevaplug port available

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Speaking of which, what is the official method of staying up to date these 
days, 
especially on a combined CPU/auth server?  I keep getting various permission 
errors
if I do 'replica/pull /dist/replica network', even on freshly-installed 
systems...

Thanks much!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] permissions

[Benjamin Huntsman]

to elaborate: group permission is not implemented by any
kernel file servers in the standard distribution.

And yet, it honors others permissions?  I can set the r
bit on others, and the cat then works...



-Original Message-
From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net on behalf of erik quanstrom
Sent: Sat 10/16/2010 11:19 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] permissions
 
On Sun Oct 17 02:02:07 EDT 2010, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote:
 group membership checking is up to the particular file server. if it
 doesn't implement it, it wont be enforced.

to elaborate: group permission is not implemented by any
kernel file servers in the standard distribution.  only a few
non-kernel filesystems bother with group ownership.  all
of them are fileservers that store files on disk (e.g. fossil,
kenfs).

in theory, one could, involve the auth server in the process,
so that a user could use the auth serve to prove he's part of
a group, but nobody's done anything like that yet.

- erik


winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] permissions

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Right.  Aside from the persistent data file servers, like kfs,
kenfs, and fossil (as Erik mentioned), there's not much that
treats groups in the expected way.

So if you'll continue to pardon my asking, who exactly tells a given
file server what constitutes a user or a group?  In this particular
instance, I'm running fossil (without Venti) as the filesystem.  So
then, doesn't /adm/users come from fossil?  Wouldn't that mean that
it's fossil's responsibility to enforce permissions?

winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] permissions

[Benjamin Huntsman]

...Plus, there's a chicken and
egg problem.  The server which gives you /dev/sd00/nvram
has to approve of the attach when fossil wants to open its
/dev/sd00/fossil, but until fossil has opened it, there's no
way of knowing what's in /adm/users on that particular fossil.

So for in-kernel file servers, it's best to look at them as hostowner
and world and forget about groups.  For lib9p based servers,
you can link in a different implementation of hasperm() and
get whatever permissions checking you want, but the default
behavior is to assume that the named group has exactly one
member: the group leader.

Thank you for the clarification.  That's exactly what I'm getting at.
As you stated, /dev/sd00/* gets set up (especially where it's the only disk)
before we have any idea of what the users/groups look like.  Then, when you do
a ls -l, it will show you users and groups that are listed in /adm/users.
Chicken-and-egg, just like you said.  Of course, that lands us in the current
situation, where you can't tweak things such that 100% of all administration
activities can be performed remotely via drawterm... for some stuff like setting
up disks, one still has to use the local physical terminal.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not complaining or finger-pointing; I'm just trying to
fully understand the current state before attempting to poke at it.

Thanks much!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] permissions

[Benjamin Huntsman]

That starts to get into almost philosophical security issues.
To some extent I consider this a good thing.  Physical access
is the ultimate privilige, so you need to physically protect
your data to the extent that it's worth to you.  If you've
got physical protection anyway, then making physical access
be required to do potentially destructive administration
means you only one one avenue of compromise instead of
physical and network.

Having said that, because I have a combined CPU/auth/file
server, I can, and sometimes do, cpu into it as the host
owner and do administrative things that way.

You're right, that's probably a philosophical discussion.  As
a real-world example, where I work, we've got a bunch of AIX
servers out in our datacenter, which is a physically seperate
building down the street.  While we have physical access if we
need it, generally speaking everything can be done remotely,
including rebooting a system, because the HMC manages it and
provides virtual serial consoles.  But generally the HMC isn't
used once the partition is up, as all administration can be done
remotely, and a user can su to root if need be.  I've been using
the drawterm to hostowner trick too, but was thinking that since
Plan 9 doesn't recognize a root-equivalent user, the opportunity
is there to delegate permissions to any user (or group, ;) )such
that they should be able to perform root-like tasks as themselves.

If I were running a Plan 9 server on bare hardware in the datacenter,
I wouldn't want to have to take a hike every time I needed to do
certain activities, even though my key to the datacenter door grants
me physical access should I need it.  In this case, though, it's 
running under VMware ESXi, so the vSphere Client gives me remote
access to the console, much as the HMC does for the AIX systems, but
still...  My point is that if one wants to open themselves up to
another avenue of attack (albeit carefully controlled) by allowing
such things to be done via network, they should be able to.  So in
that sense, maybe drawterm'ing to hostowner is the appropriate answer...

Again, thanks for your responses!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] permissions

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I probably need to go read the papers regarding permissions 10 more times, 
but this just doesn't seem right to me.  I'm logged in as 'ben' via
drawterm:

cpu% cat /adm/users
adm:adm:adm:sys,bootes,ben
ben:ben::adm,sys
bootes:bootes::ben
glenda:glenda:glenda:
none:none::
noworld:noworld::
sys:sys::glenda,bootes,ben
upas:upas::
cpu% ls -l /dev/sd00 | grep nvram
--rw-r- S 0 bootes bootes   512 Mar  7  2010 /dev/sd00/nvram
cpu% cat /dev/sd00/nvram
cat: can't open /dev/sd00/nvram: '/dev/sd00/nvram' permission denied
cpu%

Does that not say that if I'm a member of the bootes group, I should be
able to cat that?

Thanks in advance for not flogging me with the manual, and forgiveness
for spending too much time in UNIX-land lately! :)

-Ben

[9fans] latest plan9.iso

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Anyone tried to install from a very recent plan9.iso?

I just downloaded the latest one this morning.  I'm trying to install into a 
VMware ESXi virtual machine.  I installed another just about a week ago, and 
did not encounter any trouble.  I frequently have to plug in the correct SCSI 
device for the CD, but this time, I get the following message before the boot 
from: prompt:

cpu0: 2796MHz PentiumIV/Xeon loop 47254
apm ax=f000 cx=f000 dx=40 di= ebx=564f esi=-1
no ethernet interfaces recognized
bus dev type vid  did intl memory
0  17/0 02 00 00 1022 2000  11  0:1401 128
0  18/0 02 00 00 1022 2000  11  0:1481 128
Unknown boot device: sdD0!cdboot!9pcflop.gz
Boot devices: fd0
boot from:

I can specify sdC0!cdboot!9pcflop.gz, and it'll load the installer, but it 
doesn't detect the virtual hard drive.  In the past, the official plan9.iso 
has had no trouble on ESXi.

I'm downloading 9atom as I type this, but just wanted to see if anyone else has 
had trouble with the latest official iso...

Many thanks!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] latest plan9.iso

[Benjamin Huntsman]

apologies for the noise... please disregard.
Thought I had the lsilogic controller working once before, but guess not.  
buslogic it is.


-Original Message-
From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net on behalf of Benjamin Huntsman
Sent: Sat 9/4/2010 3:37 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: [9fans]  latest plan9.iso
 
Anyone tried to install from a very recent plan9.iso?

I just downloaded the latest one this morning.  I'm trying to install into a 
VMware ESXi virtual machine.  I installed another just about a week ago, and 
did not encounter any trouble.  I frequently have to plug in the correct SCSI 
device for the CD, but this time, I get the following message before the boot 
from: prompt:

cpu0: 2796MHz PentiumIV/Xeon loop 47254
apm ax=f000 cx=f000 dx=40 di= ebx=564f esi=-1
no ethernet interfaces recognized
bus dev type vid  did intl memory
0  17/0 02 00 00 1022 2000  11  0:1401 128
0  18/0 02 00 00 1022 2000  11  0:1481 128
Unknown boot device: sdD0!cdboot!9pcflop.gz
Boot devices: fd0
boot from:

I can specify sdC0!cdboot!9pcflop.gz, and it'll load the installer, but it 
doesn't detect the virtual hard drive.  In the past, the official plan9.iso 
has had no trouble on ESXi.

I'm downloading 9atom as I type this, but just wanted to see if anyone else has 
had trouble with the latest official iso...

Many thanks!

-Ben


winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] DNS... don't ask

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Also, what do you make of this?

   svr hostname= 
 dc1\.testdom\.test\.local._kpasswd._udp.testdom.test.local

*** Error: record size incorrect (39 != 37)

*** ns2.test.local can't find _kpasswd._udp.testdom.test.local: server failed

The query should return an svr hostname of dc1.testdom.test.local, minus the 
backslashes and the extra iteration of ._kpasswd._udp...
I also still don't understand why the short lookup of _kpasswd._tcp fails, even 
on the Plan 9 system.

Is this a bug in Plan 9 DNS, or a misconfiguration?

Thanks again!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] DNS dynamic update

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Hi!
   I'm trying to set up an application(don't ask :) ) on my LAN that 
more-or-less requires the ability to perform dynamic updates of DNS.  I'm 
currently using a Plan 9 system to serve DNS, but DHCP is being served by a 
FreeBSD machine (because it supplies the correct info for non-Plan 9 hosts).
   Does Plan 9's DNS support dynamic update?  I've read the man pages, but it 
seems that the answer is no.

Thanks in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] DNS dynamic update

[Benjamin Huntsman]

 (because it supplies the correct info for non-Plan 9 hosts).

What info did your hosts need that Plan 9's dhcpd didn't supply?

Specifically, Plan 9's dhcpd does not supply a context-specific DNS suffix (ie, 
default domain name), which Windows systems need in order to resolve hosts by 
short name.  That is, if my internal DNS zone is home.local, and I have a 
system ns2.home.local, if dhcpd doesn't tell a Windows box that it's dns suffix 
should be home.local, then it will be able to resolve ns2.home.local, but not 
just ns2.

I looked at the dhcpd code, but it was easier to just have ISC dhcpd do the 
work on a FreeBSD system, since I already had it set up.  Plan 9's DNS does 
what I need it to (except the dynamic updates) and was easier to set up than 
BIND.

Thanks!
-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] Plan 9 as local DHCP/DNS server

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I'm trying to get a Plan 9 system set up to serve as a DHCP/DNS server on my 
local LAN.
The clients are mostly Windows systems, with some Macs, etc, thrown in.

Here are the relevant bits from /lib/ndb/local:

ipnet=internal ip=10.0.0.0 ipmask 255.255.0.0
ipsubmask=255.255.255.0
dns=ns2.test.local
dns=ns1.test.local
dnsdomain=test.local
ipgw=10.0.0.1
authdom=test.local auth=ns2

dom=test.local soa=
refresh=3600 ttl=3600
ns=ns2.test.local
ns=ns1.test.local
dnsdomain=test.local
mb=...@test.local
mx=mail1.test.local pref=20

ip=10.0.0.102 sys=ns2 dom=ns2.test.local
ether=005056b31741

And in /cfg/ns2/cpurc I have:

ip/dhcpd 10.0.0.2 99
ndb/dns -s


Now, it hands out DHCP addresses to my Windows clients, and, I can ping 
ns2.test.local by name, but, cannot ping the short name, ns2.
This is because the client doesn't receive a Connection-specific DNS suffix 
from dhcpd.  (You can see this in from ipconfig /all).
I thought that is what the dnsdomain tuple was for, but apparently not?  ns1 is 
a FreeBSD host on which I can run ISC DHCPD, and it correctly hands Windows 
clients a connection-specific DNS suffix, but I'd rather keep both DNS and DHCP 
on a Plan 9 system...

Anyone tried using Plan 9's dns and dhcpd with Windows clients and gotten this 
to work?

Many thanks in advance!

-Ben

[9fans] stripe fossil?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

is it possible to make a filesystem (fossil or kfs) span (stripe or cat) 
multiple disks, on a cpu or terminal, or is that only possible with the old fs 
kernel?

Or, is the only way to accomplish this through a hardware RAID controller?

Thanks much!!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] original cpu server

[Benjamin Huntsman]

does anyone know what hardware the
first (or even proto-) cpu server ran on?

I thought the original CPU server was the SGI Power 4D, with the i960-based 
optical connection.

...unless there was something older?

-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] nemo book

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Does anyone here know if it's possible to obtain printed
copies of nemo's book if you live in the United States?

Dykinson's website doesn't seem to offer overseas
shipping...

Thanks in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] nemo book

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I'am intrigued, you have a weblink to where I could buy a printed copy
(in europe)?

I'm not sure you can order it online, but here is the link:

http://www.dykinson.com/book--Notes_on_the_plan_9tm_3rd_edition_kernel_source--232471.html
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] Dell E4300?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

there's a new ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2

The second part of your reply appears to not be directed to this issue, but 
something similar.  I don't remember writing that.
Anyway, we're getting much further, but the boot process still dies:

...
pat: 0107040600070406
ELCR: 0C08
pcirouting: BIOS workaround: PCI.0.29.0 at pin 1 link 4 irq 7 - 3
pcirouting: BIOS workaround: PCI.0.29.1 at pin 2 link 5 irq 1 - 11
pcirouting: BIOS workaround: PCI.0.29.7 at pin 1 link 4 irq 7 - 3
pcirouting: BIOS workaround: PCI.0.26.0 at pin 1 link 4 irq 7 - 3
pcirouting: BIOS workaround: PCI.0.26.1 at pin 2 link 5 irq 1 - 11
pcirouting: BIOS workaround: PCI.0.27.0 at pin 1 link 5 irq 1 - 11
#l0: i82567: 1000Mbps port 0xF6AE irq 10 tu 1514: 002170b7a113
sdata: blind probe 1f0
sdata: blind probe 170
#S/sdE: ahci ich port 0xe0020800: ss 1 ncs 31 coal 1 mport 3 led 1 clo 1 ems 1
#S/sdE: ich: sata-II with 4 ports
3536M memory: 256M kernel data, 3280M user, 3905M swap
root is from (il, tcp, local)[local!bootdev/data]:
sdE0: LLBA 488,397,168 sectors
  ST9250421ASG DE14 5TH05P1L [newdrive]
sdE1: LBA 0 sectors
  TSSTcorp DVD+/-RW TS-U633A D200  [newdrive]
boot: can't connect to file server: '#S/sdD0' file does not exist
panic: boot process died: unknown
panic: boot process died: unknown
dumpstack disabled
cpo0: exiting


This is when attempting to use the boot Plan 9 from this CD option.
Booting into the install Plan 9... option loads the installer.  I'm installing
now and will post the results.

Thanks again!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] Dell E4300?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I'm installing now and will post the results.

Okay, the install works perfectly, and I'm up and running!
Many thanks!

I recall reading that the CD is otherwise identical to the stock
version.  So, if I recompile the kernel, it'll break, right?  What
utterances do I need to enter in order to rebuild the kernel as it
appears on the 9atom cd?

Thanks again!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] Dell E4300?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Anyone here had a chance to try a Dell E4300?  It's a nice, compact system, but 
it really refuses to boot Plan 9:

It has on-board SATA hd, SATA cd-rom, etc.  I tried quanstro's 9atom.iso, and 
with the SATA controller in AHCI mode, it'll start booting, but hangs at:

4 = 818807+1020832+474972=2314611
entry: f0100020

Plan 9

In modes other than AHCI, neither the stock or quanstro's cd's will recognize 
any devices other than fd0, and even then won't boot from it.

The stock cd will hang here in AHCI mode:

PBS1...
Plan 9 from Bell Labs
ELCR: 0C08
pcirouting: South bridge 8086, 2917 not found


Any idea where to start looking?  (besides for a different laptop, that is :) )

Thanks!!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] Dell E4300?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

i'll add this southbridge to my cd.  this will definately
not hurt.  could you send me pci output?  if you use
lspci from linux make sure to use -vn so the vid/did
appear.  the descriptive strings are fairly useless.

Sorry, I don't use Linux much.  This machine currently runs OpenSolaris.  Below 
is the output from 'prtconf -pv' which should be more-or-less similar to 
Linux's 'lspci -vn'.  If you'd prefer the Linux output, I can go download a 
LiveCD really quick...

Thanks much for your time!!

-Ben



System Configuration:  Sun Microsystems  i86pc
Memory size: 4048 Megabytes
System Peripherals (PROM Nodes):

Node 0x01
bios-boot-device:  '82'
stdout:  
name:  'i86pc'

Node 0x02
existing:  00db2000..0bc58801.
name:  'ramdisk'

Node 0x03
bus-type:  'isa'
device_type:  'isa'
name:  'isa'

Node 0x04
compatible: 'pciex_root_complex'
device_type:  'pciex'
reg:  ..
#size-cells:  0002
#address-cells:  0003
name:  'pci'

Node 0x05
reg:  ....
compatible: 'pci8086,2a40.1028.24d.7' + 'pci8086,2a40.1028.24d' + 
'pci1028,24d' + 'pci8086,2a40.7' + 'pci8086,2a40' + 'pciclass,06' + 
'pciclass,0600'
model:  'Host bridge'
power-consumption:  0001.0001
fast-back-to-back:  
devsel-speed:  
max-latency:  
min-grant:  
subsystem-vendor-id:  1028
subsystem-id:  024d
unit-address:  '0'
class-code:  0006
revision-id:  0007
vendor-id:  8086
device-id:  2a40
name:  'pci1028,24d'

Node 0x06
assigned-addresses:  
83001010..f6c0..0040.c3001018..e000..1000.81001020..ef98..0008.a1001000..03b0..000c.a1001000..03c0..0020.82001000..000a..0002
reg:  
1000.....03001010....0040.43001018....1000.01001020....0008.a1001000..03b0..000c.a1001000..03c0..0020.82001000..000a..0002
compatible: 'pci8086,2a42.1028.24d.7' + 'pci8086,2a42.1028.24d' + 
'pci1028,24d' + 'pci8086,2a42.7' + 'pci8086,2a42' + 'pciclass,03' + 
'pciclass,0300'
model:  'VGA compatible controller'
power-consumption:  0001.0001
fast-back-to-back:  
devsel-speed:  
interrupts:  0001
max-latency:  
min-grant:  
subsystem-vendor-id:  1028
subsystem-id:  024d
device_type:  'display'
unit-address:  '2'
class-code:  0003
revision-id:  0007
vendor-id:  8086
device-id:  2a42
name:  'display'

Node 0x07
assigned-addresses:  83001110..f6b0..0010
reg:  
1100.....03001110....0010
compatible: 'pci8086,2a43.1028.24d.7' + 'pci8086,2a43.1028.24d' + 
'pci1028,24d' + 'pci8086,2a43.7' + 'pci8086,2a43' + 'pciclass,038000' + 
'pciclass,0380'
model:  'Video controller'
power-consumption:  0001.0001
fast-back-to-back:  
devsel-speed:  
max-latency:  
min-grant:  
subsystem-vendor-id:  1028
subsystem-id:  024d
unit-address:  '2,1'
class-code:  00038000
revision-id:  0007
vendor-id:  8086
device-id:  2a43
name:  'pci1028,24d'

Node 0x08
assigned-addresses:  
8200c810..f6ae..0002.8200c814..f6adb000..1000.8100c818..efe0..0020
reg:  
c800.....0200c810....0002.0200c814....1000.0100c818....0020
compatible: 'pci8086,10f5.1028.24d.3' + 'pci8086,10f5.1028.24d' + 
'pci1028,24d' + 'pci8086,10f5.3' + 'pci8086,10f5' + 'pciclass,02' + 
'pciclass,0200'
model:  'Ethernet controller'
power-consumption:  0001.0001
devsel-speed:  
interrupts:  0001
max-latency:  
min-grant:  
subsystem-vendor-id:  1028
  

[9fans] file server?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Since the how-to's are being discussed recently, I thought it would be a good 
time to ask:

Once, it used to be the standard configuration to have one machine as a 
CPU/auth server, one machine as a file server, and one machine as a terminal, 
for a total of three systems, if one had the available hardware.

What's the recommended setup now?  Are most people using a combined 
cpu/auth/file server running Fossil+Venti, or is the recommendation to use a 
seperate fossil+venti server dedicated to file serving, and another to serve as 
CPU/auth?

I currently have a cpu/auth server in a vm that I drawterm to and store most of 
my Plan 9 stuff on, but since I have an opportunity to move some things around, 
am wondering if this is the best setup.

Thanks to all in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] the old floppy set

[Benjamin Huntsman]

anyway, to ron's question, for those keeping score:
Sun: released their stuff; recently acquired by Oracle.
NeXT: acquired by Apple, ate it from within.
MIPS: acquired by SGI. a smaller MIPS was then spit out when SGI
realized Itanium was their future (oops).
SGI: went backrupt, twice, then acquired by Rackable before the whole
shebang was renamed sgi.
i was going to say that having Plan 9 ported to your platform seemed
like a bad omen for your company, but equally valid is the observation
that being a platform vender (other than Apple) is bad for your
company.

Last I had read, Rob Pike had tried several times to get SGI to allow the
release of their stuff, but they always said no.  I don't think any attempt
has been made since Rackable acquired SGI.  It still might be interesting
to see someday, since I thought I had heard that Bell Labs still has an SGI
Power Challenge running a 4th Edition kernel whose release is also barred
by the 2e NDA... Maybe it's been turned off for good by now, though...

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] the old floppy set

[Benjamin Huntsman]

And the floppy is available at
http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/2nd_edition/plan9.att.com/pcdist/ but I
have not tested it, if you do I would love to hear about it.

I had found that about a year ago, and was able to get the floppy set
up and running in Virtual PC without much trouble.  It'll only work at
800x600x1, but otherwise, it wasn't terribly difficult...  I've still
got the VPC image, but it hasn't been fired up in some time.

-Ben

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 manuals

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Silly question: is there any way of buying 3d edition (or better yet  
2nd edition)
original manuals?

I had always thought it was a bit taboo to say hey, anyone want to sell
their 2nd Edition copy?, though I'm sure there there would be several
eager buyers on this list...  I'm one of them, but good luck!
Those cost ~$350 back in the day, and I'd suspect that they'd command a 
similar price today.

As for the 3rd Edition manual set, I believe Vita Nuova may still have a few
in stock...

-Ben
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Re: [9fans] iso experiment

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Oops... looks like I forgot to finish my thought:

I was one of those people, and I must say, the sd drivers work great and seem 
to offer a degree of flexibility that the stock driver does not.
Why not just incorporate them into the official distribution?

-Ben

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Re: [9fans] iso experiment

[Benjamin Huntsman]

i've suggested using my contrib/sd to a few people
who are having trouble with sd devices

I was one of those people, and I must say, the sd drivers work great and seem 
to offer a degree of flexibility that the 
Why not just incorporate them into the official distribution?

-Ben
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[9fans] off topic: manual sets

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I'm striking out on google, and I'm virtually 
certain that someone here will know...

Does anyone happen to have the ISBN's for the 7th Edition manual set?
Volume I is 0-03-061742-1, but I can't seem to find the others...

Thanks in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] off topic: manual sets

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I sure do, but I'm looking for the printed copies.

Thanks though!!

-Ben


-Original Message-
From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net on behalf of Steve Simon
Sent: Thu 7/30/2009 2:32 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] off topic: manual sets
 
also, do you know about:

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS

[Benjamin Huntsman]

 Without this getting into a holy war, what Geoff told me was that the
 amd64 work was for headless CPU servers, which is only mildly useful
 to me anyway.

If it was released perhaps somebody would add the missing drivers, who knows...

As things stand, we will never know.

Speaking of the amd64 port, I had thought that Bell Labs was planning on 
releasing it at some point in the future, but that it currently wasn't quite 
perfect and they didn't want to have to field complaints...  I can't say that I 
blame them...

But, it would be nice to see eventually.  Are there plans to let the amd64 port 
out of the labs at some point in the future?

Many thanks!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Before my signature, I'd really like to reiterate that I did not bring
up amd64 to open a can of worms.

-dho

I just thought I'd ask the question since it came up, as I've been wondering 
also.
However, I don't think it needs to be a can of worms if we as a community 
don't make it into one.
After all, we're all on the same side.

If the Bell Labs folks don't want to release it, we can either wait for them to 
do so, or as John suggested, port it ourselves.

Personally, I'll wait... :)

I also want to take the opportunity to thank the Labs folk and others here who 
release outstanding code for free and still take the time to communicate with 
the rest of us mortals...  Time and effort greatly appreciated.

-Ben
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Re: [9fans] Plan9 - the next 20 years

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Speaking of NUMA and such though, is there even any support for it in the 
kernel?
I know we have a 10gb Ethernet driver, but what about cluster interconnects 
such as InfiniBand, Quadrics, or Myrinet?  Are such things even desired in Plan 
9?

I'm glad see process migration has been mentioned
winmail.dat

[9fans] sources browser script?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Speaking of web servers...
Is the script that creates the pages for the source browsing on 
plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/ included in the distribution or otherwise 
available?  It's pretty neat, and may be useful...

Thanks in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] sources browser script?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/webls.c

That looks to be useful too, though that's not the script that sources is using 
to generate the pages.
The HTML source produced by webls.c looks different than what is produced by 
the pages.
Looks like the script in question should be called sources.tr?

Thanks!

-Ben

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Re: [9fans] way OT but shocking none the less

[Benjamin Huntsman]

...SGI... was purchased for just $25M by Rackable Systems

I saw that.  It's a sad day when such an icon of the computer industry gets 
bought by some company I've never heard of for a (relatively) piddly little 
sum...

winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] Virtual PC + Win64 = i/o errors

[Benjamin Huntsman]

do you have a way of compiling kernels?

Sure do!  The original copy of the same VM in question still runs fine on it's 
original host...

Thanks much!!

-Ben

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[9fans] Virtual PC + Win64 = i/o errors

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I recently switched to Windows XP x64 Edition on my two 64-Bit x86 systems.  
Ever since, I've had trouble with Virtual PC, where I run a couple of Plan 9 
VMs.  I was wondering if anyone has seen similar issues:

I copied over a virtual machine from a 32-bit host, where it was running 
happily.  I also get the same errors during the install process, just after it 
tries to format the fossil.  Below are the relevant messages from the boot 
process:

...
fossil(#S/sdC0/fossil)...version...time...
command 30
data f0caaaf8 limit f0cab8f8 dlen 8291 status 0 error 0
lba 605536 - 605536, count 16 - 16 (16)
 0x00 0x06 0x6A 0x3D 0x09 0xE0 0x58
0x40: E307 0x42: Cx48: 00
0x4A: 
fossil: diskWriteRaw failed: /dev/sdC0/fossil: score 0x5529: date Sun Apr 5
 06:37:19 PDT 2009
 part=data block 21801: i/o error
...

I get several subsequent messages that say basically the same thing, with 
different block numbers, but the machine never finishes booting.
Has anyone seen anything similar?  Is this a Plan 9 bug, Windows x64 bug, or 
Virtual PC x64 bug?

Many thanks in advance!

-Ben

Re: [9fans] Virtual PC + Win64 = i/o errors

[Benjamin Huntsman]

 fossil(#S/sdC0/fossil)...version...time...
 command 30
 data f0caaaf8 limit f0cab8f8 dlen 8291 status 0 error 0
 lba 605536 - 605536, count 16 - 16 (16)
  0x00 0x06 0x6A 0x3D 0x09 0xE0 0x58
 0x40: E307 0x42: Cx48: 00
 0x4A: 
 fossil: diskWriteRaw failed: /dev/sdC0/fossil: score 0x5529: date Sun 
 Apr 5
  06:37:19 PDT 2009
  part=data block 21801: i/o error

did you type in this by hand?  i'm wondering about the
dlen = 8291.  that should be 8192.

Yes, I typed it in by hand from the Virtual PC screen.  
You're right, I transposed the numbers.  Sorry about that.

I don't know what else to say, I don't really understand the error or what
the codes mean.

I don't know if VPC is ahci-compatable.  The disks show up as regular IDE, not 
SATA,
though my host is SATA-based...  But still, VPC is supposed to hide such things 
from the guest.

According to the docs, Virtual PC presents an Intel 440BX chipset.

dma mode from the get-go could fix the problem.

How exactly would I enable that on an already-installed VM?  Would a modified 
plan9.ini on a floppy
image do the trick?

Many thanks!

-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] drawterm font

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Not a big issue, but is it possible to change the default font in drawterm?
I imagine once logged in successfully, it could be changed via arguments to 
rio, but I'm talking about during the text-only login.

I ask because my 'bootes' account's profile doesn't start rio, so I 
occasionally use it to do command-line-only administration things, like adding 
users.  The default font tends to be a bit large though, given the size of my 
display...  I should mention that this is the Windows version...

Many thanks in advance!

-Ben

winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] drawterm font

[Benjamin Huntsman]

the bitmaps for the ascii characters are embedded in the drawterm binary.

That's libdraw/defont.c, right?  I'll see about swapping that around for 
latin1.7, my personal favorite, just for the heck of it, though for now, doing 
the single large window is more-or-less what I was after anyway.

Thanks!!

-Ben

winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] Visual font viewer

[Benjamin Huntsman]

You know, this brings up a good question, which I've been pondering for some 
time but never asked...

Does anyone remember how the Plan 9 font files came to be?  I'm going to go out 
on a limb here and bet that some poor soul didn't enter them by hand...
I'd also wager that they weren't created on Plan 9 directly...

So, was(were) some tool(s) used, especially in the conversion from a more 
standard format like PS to the Plan 9 format?  And if so, does(do) said 
tool(s) still exist?  

Thanks!!

-Ben
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Re: [9fans] cheap, low-resolution terminal

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Just one line in plan9.ini and I was rocking.

I'll have to break out my amber-screen vt420 and give it a try.  Probably not 
terribly useful w/o a mouse, though! :)

winmail.dat

[9fans] Itanium

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I know most everyone here hates the Itanium, but it is in some pretty large and 
fast systems, and it's on the Top500 list.

So out of curiosity, has anyone looked at putting together a compiler for 
Itanium, or otherwise looked at a Plan 9 port?

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I wouldn't usually do this, as I know this isn't e-bay, :) but since access to 
non-x86 hardware is being discussed...

would anyone be interested in an IBM p630 (POWER4+)?

-Ben
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[9fans] bitsy anyone?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Does anyone happen to have a working bitsy kernel and paqdisk?

I've tried both compiling myself and the kernel/paqdisk that used to be on 
nemo's contrib, both to no avail.

Either way, I get a kernel panic on the iPaq.  The various instructions around 
on the wiki and such have the user partition too small for the paqdisk that 
gets built out of the box from a fresh Plan 9 install... so I did increase 
the partition sizes accordingly.  I'm hoping that's not the problem...

Thanks in advance!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] bitsy anyone?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

add ramdisk0x020 0x080,

I believe the command in question is:
partition define ramdisk 0x20 0x60 0

I had changed it to 0x80 too, but still got the kernel panic...
I'll take a look in paq.c and see if I can fix the hard-coded sizes.

Thanks!!
-Ben


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Eoghan Sherry
Sent: Tue 10/21/2008 2:09 PM
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy anyone?
 
 However, I had some problems when uploading the paqdisk
 on the iPaq when the image file is larger than 4 MB. The image
 seems to be corrupted during the upload on the iPaq and Plan 9
 crash during boot. This problem does not appear with a smaller paqdisk.

I don't have a Plan 9 system or a bitsy at hand but I remember
running into this. The hard coded partition definition is fparts in
/sys/src/9/boot/paq.c. The ramdisk partition is defined to be 4 MB although the
various documents imply it should be 6 MB.

I recall simply changing the ramdisk entry to,
add ramdisk0x020 0x080,
allowed me to use larger images.

Hope this helps,
eoghan


winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] aquarela only uses /rc/bin/9fs?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

The trick you want is in /rc/bin/service/startcifs - this may not be exactly
the code  you want but it demonstrates the technique you need.

-Steve

startcifs didn't work quite like what I had in mind, so I ended up modifying 
/rc/bin/9fs.  The excerpt below gives me exactly what I wanted:

...
case wiki
 srv -m 'net!plan9.bell-labs.com!wiki' wiki /mnt/wiki
case *
 switch($#*){
 case 1
  # Help out auarela:
  for(i in /usr/*) if($1=`{basename $i}){
   bind -ac /usr/$1 /n/$1
   exit
  }
  srv -m $1
 case *
...
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] aquarela only uses /rc/bin/9fs?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

the correct namespace I would guess, you did do the import before you started 
cifs?

Hmm... I used consolefs to the /srv/fscons to add srv -A test
then as my user I could do \\myplan9server\test and get the root of the drive.
Looks like a namespace issue after all.
However, might this  prevent users from all connecting to the system, unless I 
add a /srv/ entry for every user who might connect...?

Thanks!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] 2nd Edition

[Benjamin Huntsman]

this setup reminds me of the story about the priest who, playing golf
against the orders of his superiors on sunday morning, hits a hole in one.

ouch.

supposing you're successful in getting a licence and you do great things
with the next port.  who are you going to tell?

- erik

Does the license prevent updating the port as well??

Re: [9fans] Using the Acme Editor

[Benjamin Huntsman]

You might give Sam a try.  I'm still working my way up to Acme too, but Sam has 
an edge over vi for me...  ...Might be nice if there was an option to open a 
document in a default window though, but if it were a big enough concern, I've 
got the source and could make the change... :)


-Ben
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Re: [9fans] file ownership on /srv

[Benjamin Huntsman]

The third is to use consolefs, as Charles suggested,
to moderate access to /srv/fscons.  This has many
benefits over the previous two ideas: the set of console
users is defined in one easy place (the consolefs config),
consolefs will multiplex output to multiple connections
(unlike /srv/fscons, which is just a pipe and thus doesn't
work so well with multiple readers), you can log the
console output easily, and you can see what commands
others are executing.

Now that's the ticket!  consolefs it is!

Thanks all for the responses!

-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] file ownership on /srv

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I have a CPU/Auth server set up.  I'd like to be able to add users remotely 
(via drawterm), rather than at the system's console.  However, normally, I 
can't attach to /srv/fscons, and as I found, can't start another fscons and 
open the filesystem under it.

/srv/fscons gets created at startup, by bootes:

cpu% ls -l /srv/fscons
--rw--- s 0 bootes bootes 0 Aug  6 12:09 /srv/fscons
cpu% 

Since I'm not logged in as bootes, and am not a member of the bootes group, I 
can't use con to connect to /srv/fscons, and therefore, can't add a user.

I read in chgrp(1) that you can't change file group membership when the 
fileserver is not in the bootstrap state.  How then can I get the /srv/fscons 
to belong to the 'sys' or 'adm' groups?  Or is the generally accepted solution 
to add my account to the bootes group, then chmod g+rw /srv/fscons  (from the 
console)?  Would that even allow me to connect to the fscons from a drawterm 
session?

I understand the concept of no superuser and un-circumvent-able security, but 
someone's got to be able to do administrator-type things w/o taking a trip to 
the server room...

Thanks much in advance!!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] file ownership on /srv

[Benjamin Huntsman]

When you drawterm, authenticate as 'bootes' instead of your usual id.

Yes that works, but isn't that similar to logging in as root to a unix box over 
the wire?
If I were delegating add user abilities to another user, that'd mean I'd have 
to give them the password for bootes...

Is there no way to give a specific group the ability to connect to fscons 
non-locally w/o using the bootes account?
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] file ownership on /srv

[Benjamin Huntsman]

(instead of drawterm, i usually just use telnet as bootes to a file/cpu/auth 
server for admin work.)

Isn't that one of those proverbially bad admin practices?  :)  I know I'm 
guilty of it too, but I'm trying to cure myself of the habit.

I did just find that if on the console I do chmod ugo+rw /srv/fscons, I can 
open it under my username via drawterm, though just chmod ug+rw /srv/fscons 
isn't good enough.  Also, adding my username to bootes didn't seem to have an 
effect.
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] Source for reading Notes on the Plan 9 3rd edition KernelSource

[Benjamin Huntsman]

From the wiki page: http://netlib.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/papers/
You can obtain the sources documented in this book from:

http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/plan9jun.tgz



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Michaelian Ennis
Sent: Tue 8/12/2008 1:46 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: [9fans] Source for reading Notes on the Plan 9 3rd edition KernelSource
 
I am reading Nemo's Notes on the Plan 9 3rd edition Kernel Source.
Is it reasonable to grab a snapshot from sourcesdump or is there a
better way?  Perhaps a tarball tucked away somewhere? Also if pulling
it is reccomended then what date should I be looking at from sources?

Ian


winmail.dat

[9fans] nextstation

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I just remembered, I've got an old Nextstation Turbo Color under my desk...
I know there was a port for it at one time...

Does anyone still have the sources?  I didn't see them on the kernel history 
site.

Thanks in advance!


winmail.dat

[9fans] plan9.ini

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I had some trouble with permissions while setting up my CPU server, but thanks 
to the kind help of a few people here, got it running.

However, I can't get it to boot up entirely without my intevention, as it 
always hangs on:

root is from (tcp, local)[local!#S/sdC0/fossil]:

I'm sure there's something I can put in the plan9.ini to automatically choose 
the default, but the man page didn't make it terribly clear, and my attempt 
rendered the system unbootable, so I had to resort to boot off the cd and undo 
it.

Can anyone tell me how to make a system boot up completely w/o operator 
interaction?

Thanks in advance!

[9fans] fossil permission checking

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I'm having some trouble setting up a terminal (which will become a cpu/auth 
server).
I've gotten the 9pccpuf kernel booted, and is running as the user bootes, but 
even from the server's console, if I type something as simple as echo hi  
/foo I receive the message:

mounted directory forbids creation

I've basically followed the wiki pages on setting up a standalone auth/cpu 
server, though it's not getting me very far on the fossil side of things...  I 
chose all of the defaults during the install process, 

Can someone give me a quick tip as to how to set up a new cpu/fossil user that 
can actually write to something other than their home directory?

Also, there's not exactly a command like UNIX's sudo, is there?

Thanks in advance!

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Blue Gene

[Benjamin Huntsman]

What is XLC and where can I find more information on the standard?

XLC is IBM's POWER/PowerPC compiler.  It produces great code, but is expensive.

So, does that mean that you guys have a version of XLC that can produce Plan 9 
binaries, or are you using some other method to convert it's output?

Thanks!
winmail.dat

[9fans] Sam on 9pm or plan9port

[Benjamin Huntsman]

As far as I could find, there isn't a newer version of sam for Windows then the 
one from 9pm, so I started trying to port the plan9port version.  So far, I got 
all of the stuff in the sam/ directory to compile.

I'm stuck on lib9, though, since it doesn't compile on Windows in its current 
form.  I've gotten bits and pieces to build, but not the whole thing, so before 
I end up having to gut it to make it work, I thought I'd ask if anyone might 
know..

might it be more straightforward to modify the plan9port sam to run on 9pm, or 
would the only way to get it running on Windows be to port the whole lib9 from 
p9p at the same time?

... I hate Windows, but alas, it's what I have to live with for my job ...

Thanks in advance!

-Ben
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] Sam on 9pm or plan9port

[Benjamin Huntsman]

could p9p possibly compile and run under Cygwin?

Might be an easier port... MinGW might be preferable, as drawterm uses it, and 
again might be easier...
Neither would work out of the box, though.

An extra of indirection may not be the most efficient thing, but...

My approach thus far has been to just grab the bits sam needs and compile it 
static...
It'd be kind of goofy to need -two- compatibility layers just to run an 
editor, but you're right in that doing so may be the only feasible way.

winmail.dat

[9fans] Sam

[Benjamin Huntsman]

the 9pm version is still the latest Sam for Windows, right?

Thanks!
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] 8 cores

[Benjamin Huntsman]

i can't agree with this label research os if you mean
to imply that it's not stable or somehow unfinished.

Not at all.  Just meant that one doesn't run their company's Oracle database on 
it.
Not because it's not worthy of doing so, but such things just aren't compiled 
for it.

...you mean simple and flexable, then i couldn't agree more.

And always trying to find the right or most elegant way to do things...


Furthermore, does anyone out there run Plan 9 on non-x86 hardware anymore?

yes: http://tinyurl.com/5jc8u8, for instance

Hadn't seen that before.  Anyone know what cluster interface they're using?

Thanks!!
-Ben
winmail.dat

[9fans] venti + Nt

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Has anyone gotten Nt to read/write from Venti on a Plan 9 or Linux system?

I figure one could set up something with SAMBA, but there's no native 9p for 
Nt, right?

Re: [9fans] 8 cores

[Benjamin Huntsman]

coming as no suprise, the pc port of plan 9
does work just fine with 8 cores.

Just out of interest, what's the machine?
winmail.dat

Re: [9fans] 8 cores

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I'd like to ask a question, but before I do, feel I should say, I've been on 
this list long enough to understand that Plan 9 is a research vessel, not an OS 
that's targeted at commercial deployment...

That being said, while huge scalability is certainly research-worthy, does 
anyone actually run anything on Plan 9 that needs or would otherwise benefit 
from 8+ CPUs and more than a few GB's of RAM?

Furthermore, does anyone out there run Plan 9 on non-x86 hardware anymore?
winmail.dat