Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

be at zero-point energy. Possibility would exist there. From: Matt Mahoney Sent: Monday, 02 September 2019 22:39 To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings If we are living in a simulation then of course anything is possible. It isn't a law

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

n acceptable process for doing so. This is t From: Matt Mahoney Sent: Monday, 02 September 2019 22:39 To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings If we are living in a simulation then of course anything is possible. It isn't a law that nothing

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Qualia flow, the dots are qualia :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9vjEB1S2Y Transform into text: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myFR8FTXOM4 John -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Our minds are simulating most everything. We can imagine a model where a spaceship goes from Earth to Pluto in 1 second virtually breaking the speed of light (we know it isn't really). My thoughts were that consciousness is the one piece of the mind that isn't a model or a simulation. And for a

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Typo - *it is true. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-M1b1996cd3bd777d6b2af45f0 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Thought isn't faster than light, brain waves don't move that fast. And humans are much slower than computers doing tasks. This is part of our society, is it true. In the 4 given statements Matt gave, either we are in a sim or in the base physics. --

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

xic.com > *Sent:* Sunday, 01 September 2019 23:54 > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings > > On Friday, August 30, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies > wrote: > > But, I strongly disagree with the following statement, for it contains

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

n a static, spot of white light, wouldn't it? Just as it began. Ask yourself this; would an AGI entity be having this kind of discussion, and if so, how would it flow? From: johnr...@polyplexic.com Sent: Sunday, 01 September 2019 23:54 To: AGI Subject: Re

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Friday, August 30, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies wrote: > But, I strongly disagree with the following statement, for it contains an > inherent contradiction. > > "It is allowed to break physics or invent new ones in a virtual world." > > No, they should not be

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

John For once, I fully agree with you. This is perhaps not just a part of the problem (issue), but probably one of the biggest problems facing general, AGI progress. " Part of the issue here is that engineers particularly software cannot wait for science in many cases." But, I strongly

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

@Matt We think the same -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-Mca07bd6601dd56a5ab108f57 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 7:39 AM wrote: > On Thursday, August 29, 2019, at 1:49 AM, WriterOfMinds wrote: > > Like I said when I first posted on this thread, phenomenal consciousness > is neither necessary nor sufficient for an intelligent system. > > > This is the premise that you are misguided by.

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Clarified: AGI={I,C,M,PSI}={I,UCP+OR,M,BB}; BB=Black Box John -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-M3849c56767c291ea6a534cf9 Delivery options:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Thursday, August 29, 2019, at 6:32 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies wrote: > Qualia are communicable. > As such, I propose a new research methodology, which pertains to one-off > valid and reliable experimentation when dealing with the "unseen". The > "public" and repeat" tests for

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Thursday, August 29, 2019, at 1:49 AM, WriterOfMinds wrote: > Like I said when I first posted on this thread, phenomenal consciousness is > neither necessary nor sufficient for an intelligent system. This is the premise that you are misguided by. Who is building the intelligent systems?

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

quot; tests for vetting it as science could be replaced by a suitably-representative body of reviewing scientists who are accredited in the limitations of subjective, scientific observation. From: WriterOfMinds Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2019 00:49 To: AGI Subject:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Cool, but ... I maintain that none of this is about consciousness.  Knowledge representation, abstraction and compression via symbolism, communication of structure, common protocols and standards for describing physical phenomena ... these are all intelligence tasks. Specifically, the

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

, the resident operating system, and a peripheral device. It should be interesting. From: johnr...@polyplexic.com Sent: Wednesday, 28 August 2019 16:06 To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, at 9:30 AM

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, at 6:49 PM, WriterOfMinds wrote: > Great, seems like we've reached agreement on something. > When we communicate with words like "red," we're really communicating about > the frequency of light. I would argue that we are not communicating our > qualia to each

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, at 5:09 PM, WriterOfMinds wrote: > People can only communicate their conscious experiences by analogy. When you > say "I'm in pain," you're not actually describing your experience; you're > encouraging me to remember how I felt the last time *I* was in pain, and to

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

People can only communicate their conscious experiences by analogy. When you say "I'm in pain," you're not actually describing your experience; you're encouraging me to remember how I felt the last time *I* was in pain, and to assume you feel the same way. We have no way of really knowing

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, at 4:07 PM, WriterOfMinds wrote: > Are you sure you wouldn't be better served by calling your ideas some other > names than "consciousness" and "qualia," then?  We're all getting "hung-up > on" the concepts that those terms actually refer to.  Good question.

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Secretary of Trades wrote: > https://philpapers.org/archive/CHATMO-32.pdf#page=50 Blah blah blah. >From AGI perspective we are interested in the multi-agent computational >advantages in distributed systems that consciousness (or by other names)

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

https://philpapers.org/archive/CHATMO-32.pdf#page=50 On 28.08.2019 22:19, Secretary of Trades wrote: clrscr(); On 28.08.2019 16:03, johnr...@polyplexic.com wrote: On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, at 8:44 AM, WriterOfMinds wrote: That is not what qualia are. Qualia are incommunicable and

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

clrscr(); On 28.08.2019 16:03, johnr...@polyplexic.com wrote: On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, at 8:44 AM, WriterOfMinds wrote: That is not what qualia are. Qualia are incommunicable and private. As Matt would say: printf("Ouch!\n"); John *Artificial General Intelligence List

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

mpirically resolve the 'ambiguity' problem first. Else, it would result in (or take form as) a consciousness-challenged dumb device, like most computers still are today. From: WriterOfMinds Sent: Wednesday, 28 August 2019 14:44 To: AGI Subject: Re

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Monday, August 26, 2019, at 5:25 PM, WriterOfMinds wrote: > "What it feels like to think" or "the sum of all a being's qualia" can be > called phenomenal consciousness. I don't think this type of consciousness is > either necessary or sufficient for AGI. If you have an explicit goal of >

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

This attention system is also done in cells, on DNA translation encoding/decoding and for repairs of errors and signaling growth specialization of new types of cell differentiation. It works on all levels, cities to cells, even wound healing, because it is information repair and Generative

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

If you shake a bucket of rocks, they will fall and take up less volume, you let the matter do the calculations on their own. This is indeed similar to the Self-Attention system in the Transformer architecture, let me get a picture: -- Artificial General

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

When I say "synchronization makes you propagate signals farther faster", take for example having learnt the piano or English  alphabet - phrases are made from word parts made from letter parts and Glove relations are formed using past Glove relations. These bridges are built on each other, and

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Dreaming is simulating, like GPT-2 does. And it can learn while doing that in Attention. But in Long term memory, in the midnight subconscious time if not all the time, learning also happens without 'you' thinking and seeing the discovery occur and laugh at the rewarding relation. The

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

(The short term Attention comes to equilibrium with your knowledgebase.) -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-Mfb84f161c988fdd93f25549b Delivery options:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

By "short term memory" I mean the working train of thoughts, looping, like GPT-2's Attention system in the Transformer architecture. Paying attention to context updates the attention weights, then it iterates, having a new context. So while Glove equalizes, Attention equalizes too. Your

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Dropping the 'consciousness' word, that video I linked above is actually hit on. Let me explain. In the middle of the video, he mentioned wave synchronization - the brain has signals propagating around - please see this video below to see what the man has meant. In the brain, the connections

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

:-) "Is Your Consciousness Just A Bunch Of Vibrations? | Answers With Joe" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GE5M6F8I18 For cavemen laymen, that answer is quiet accurately well. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 9:30 AM Stefan Reich via AGI wrote: Please point me to the code being written as a result of this talk then :-) http://mattmahoney.net/autobliss.txt Actually I wrote it in response to this conversation in 2007 because consciousness is a topic that just won't die. The

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Network of Networks — A Neural-Symbolic Approach to Inverse-Graphics: https://towardsdatascience.com/network-of-networks-a-neural-symbolic-approach-to-inverse-graphics-acf3998ab3d  Here is some. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Thanks John. Could consciousness all come down to the way things vibrate?: https://theconversation.com/could-consciousness-all-come-down-to-the-way-things-vibrate-103070 The visual alphabet 2.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6MB-ZgPcNg Is Your Consciousness Just A Bunch Of Vibrations? |

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Please point me to the code being written as a result of this talk then :-) On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 at 22:21, Matt Mahoney wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2019, 8:05 AM Stefan Reich via AGI > wrote: > > Is all this discussion leading anywhere? > > No. Consciousness is an irrelevant distraction to

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Yes as I said, consciousness means other things for real, the uses are there, just not any magic, only misunderstandings. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, at 7:51 AM, immortal.discoveries wrote: > I believe consciousness doesn't exist for many, many, reasons, ex. physics, > our brain being a meta ball from the womb, learned cues, etc. I am purely a > robot from evolution, with no life. The moment you hear that you fear

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

I believe consciousness doesn't exist for many, many, reasons, ex. physics, our brain being a meta ball from the womb, learned cues, etc. I am purely a robot from evolution, with no life. The moment you hear that you fear that and want to feel more special, it's like buying bible movies as a

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

I was expressing panpsychist mathematical modeling with consciousness as Universal Communication Protocol and Occupying Representation in case you didn't notice. This has much overlap on other AI fields... kegineem we may have some similar ideas I see you have something called a Visual

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

 There are my types of consciousness. There is insect, lizard, mouse, primate, and human.   And there is different forms of consciousness for every species of lizard and so on.  With in machine consciousness, for my AGI, there will different types of machine consciousness  for each other types

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Attention/focus is not the type of consciousness that Matt is talking about. Maybe some more specific terms will help clear things up. "What it feels like to think" or "the sum of all a being's qualia" can be called phenomenal consciousness. I don't think this type of consciousness is either

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

AGI will not work unless there is some form of consciousness system in place. In deep learning it is  called a attention network, and they are coming on strong on the latest supervised NN's. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019, 8:05 AM Stefan Reich via AGI wrote: Is all this discussion leading anywhere? No. Consciousness is an irrelevant distraction to anyone doing serious work in AGI. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Is all this discussion leading anywhere? On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 at 14:00, wrote: > On Monday, August 26, 2019, at 7:44 AM, immortal.discoveries wrote: > > Encoding information, remembering information, decoding information, > paying attention to context, prediction forecast, loop back to step 1,

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Monday, August 26, 2019, at 7:44 AM, immortal.discoveries wrote: > Encoding information, remembering information, decoding information, paying > attention to context, prediction forecast, loop back to step 1, is the main > gist of it. This has generation, feedback, and adapting temporal

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Encoding information, remembering information, decoding information, paying attention to context, prediction forecast, loop back to step 1, is the main gist of it. This has generation, feedback, and adapting temporal patterns. -- Artificial General

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Intelligence, Memory, Consciousness for AGI is a very nice 3 tuple: AGI = {I,C,M} Any missing elements? John -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-M4a0bc51d34f8bb88282cda4c Delivery

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

*Intelligence* has been defined in many ways, including: the capacity for logic , understanding , self-awareness , learning , 

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Friday, August 23, 2019, at 9:57 PM, keghnfeem wrote: > Consciousness is Memory: > https://vimeo.com/98785998 Uhm, I was thinking that intelligence is memory. Consciousness is now.  Intelligence is what comes before and after now. Could be wrong though I guess... life is a recording that can

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

I have a complete agi model that is a conscious machine and can generate symbols using neural  networks. Here are two high end scientist using my work.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6MB-ZgPcNg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBKEaJtc8dU   And the greatest paper of are time:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

@NT Attention Is All You Need https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-M4cc29af1f6399bd26e529172/consciointelligent-thinkings -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On Saturday, August 24, 2019, at 11:15 AM, keghnfeem wrote: > The human mind builds many temporal patterns and pick the best one. Since wet > neurons are so  > slow. Also the human brain build many temporal patterns that will occur or > could occur if predicted  > patterns fails. Also, the brain

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

 The human mind builds many temporal patterns and pick the best one. Since wet neurons are so  slow. Also the human brain build many temporal patterns that will occur or could occur if predicted  patterns fails. Also, the brain records everything, so when we sleep complex algorithms are brought 

RE: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

> Matt, > > Not sure about the hard problem here but a rat would have far less > consciousness when sleeping that is for sure  > > Why? Think about the communication model with other objects/agents. > > John Although... I have to say that sometimes when I'm sleeping, lucid dreaming or

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

. It needs orientation. From: immortal.discover...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2019 09:39 To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings Sentiment detection, human-written detection, danger detection, there's infinite detections. It must

RE: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

> -Original Message- > From: Matt Mahoney > > So the hard problem of consciousness is solved. Rats have a thalamus which > controls whether they are in a conscious state or asleep. > > John, is that what you meant by consciousness? Matt, Not sure about the hard problem here but a rat

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Possible correction here, this is modeling consciousness assuming everything is conscious, "panpsychism" is it? I mentioned pondering pure randomness. This might not be right it might be when pondering pure nothingness. Would pure nothingness have a consciousness of everything or pure

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

Sentiment detection, human-written detection, danger detection, there's infinite detections. It must recognize the input and say what entails using its knowledge.  The "concept" of who it speaks to is based on feeding input in and entailment out. That is "awareness" and "conscious".

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

On 8/24/19 8:44 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies wrote: This machine is not even aware that it is a human being typing. It has zero concept of being communicated with via the Web. It reasons it could be a bear, or a girl that prompted it in the English language. FAIL But we cannot be

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

: Saturday, 24 August 2019 06:18 To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings To clear understanding of these unsettling words like simulating/ dreaming, consciousness, etc, I have found related meanings to many of these words in AGI. GPT-2 uses a Transformer that uses Attention

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

To clear understanding of these unsettling words like simulating/ dreaming, consciousness, etc, I have found related meanings to many of these words in AGI. GPT-2 uses a Transformer that uses Attention. This considers context, and the more context - the more consciousness. Besides that, knowing

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

So the hard problem of consciousness is solved. Rats have a thalamus which controls whether they are in a conscious state or asleep. John, is that what you meant by consciousness? On Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:13 PM wrote: > Consciousness has to do with observing temporal patterns. Intelligence is

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

It is about a program that can learn what a clock is. This is what machine learning is all about -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-M2139e482264f8202d4fa8eb7 Delivery options:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

How about:  Write an expression for or compute the consciousness of a clock. -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-M77f3de8ef0fd657b53de65f3 Delivery options:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151217151716.htm -- Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T41ac13a64c3d48db-Me0f711ecf4c52ac5f0e72703 Delivery options:

Re: [agi] Re: ConscioIntelligent Thinkings

How do you test whether a rat is conscious or not? On Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:24 PM wrote: > "Consciousness has to do with observing temporal patterns." > The term pattern is ... obscure I'm afraid I try to avoid it but... > > It's more than observe, I would say occupy representation. A pattern is