DIS: Re: BUS: So I heard you were looking for more players

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Full disclosure: I've actually been lurking for about a month now, to learn how 
the game works. I still only have a tenuous grasp on the current gamestate, 
though (I've lost track of things since the last Cartographor and Treasuror 
reports; and there hasn't been a Rulekeepor report since I found the list, so 
occasionally you refer to rules that aren't in the SLR yet, and I have to trawl 
the archives to find the original proposal) so I'm not going to do much for 
now, but it would be rude of me to keep quiet when you've just been talking 
about how there isn't enough activity.

- twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On May 24, 2018 9:46 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> I intend to register as a player at this time. I cause myself to receive a 
> Welcome Package.
>
> - twg

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: Q*Bert movement for June week 1

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On June 1, 2018 1:06 AM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:

> -   The message would be forwarded by you, but then there would need to be
> 
> a way to verify not just that server message but also that you
> 
> hadn't made any other similar requests.

Thinking idly: A way to get around this would be for multiple people to 
generate a random number independently, and add them together (modulus 4). It 
yields a number with the correct probability distribution, and can't be 
influenced by just one person. But it seems excessively complicated, and I 
agree with G. that working on trust is probably sufficient.

-twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: So I heard you were looking for more players

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Sorry, forgot to reply to this! Yes, that works as a nickname.

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On May 25, 2018 1:18 AM, Ned Strange  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Welcome! I assume your nickname is twg?
> 
> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 7:46 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I intend to register as a player at this time. I cause myself to receive a
> > 
> > Welcome Package.
> > 
> > -   twg
> 
> --
> 
> From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Kenyon (Re: BUS: Missing Reports: Corona, Trigon, Kenyon, Murphy, V.J. Rada)

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Of course, I mean "if e will react to this". Sorry.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 1, 2018 6:59 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I wonder if he will react to this:
> 
> I intend to cause the office of Rulekeepor to become vacant, without 2 
> objections.
> 
> -twg
> 
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> 
> On June 1, 2018 12:00 AM, Ørjan Johansen oer...@nvg.ntnu.no wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 31 May 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > > > Kenyon, for Rulekeepor (last Apr 7).
> > > > 
> > > > 3 Blots (substantial impact on game, very very late), Unforgivable
> > > > 
> > > > (no work in May).
> > 
> > This is somewhat mysterious as e is posting to the list without reacting
> > 
> > in any way to the punishments...
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > Ørjan.

DIS: "Corn" vs "coin"

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Since we're talking about proposals that aren't in the SLR yet, I noticed this 
in the Consolidated Patch (proposal 8041):

> Amend Rule 2003, Actions in Arcadia, by changing the text "substitute 3
> apples for 1 corn" to read "substitute 1 coin for three or fewer apples"

Was the change from "corn" to "coin" intentional or a typo? And if it was 
intentional - what was the purpose? As far as I can see, it makes corn useless.

-twg

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 1

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I bid 6 coins in auction 2.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 5, 2018 4:23 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I bid 8 coins in auction 1. -G.
> 
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018, C. V. wrote:
> 
> > I bid 6 coins in auction 1.
> > 
> > I bid 5 coins in auction 2.
> > 
> > I bid 5 coins in auction 3.
> > 
> > I bid 7 coins in auction 4.
> > 
> > I bid 5 coins in auction 5.
> > 
> > ~Corona
> > 
> > On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Edward Murphy emurph...@zoho.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Trigon wrote:
> > > 
> > > There are currently 7 public, unpreserved, non-aether land units in
> > > 
> > > > existence. 5 land units of my choice are put up for auction.
> > > > 
> > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > > > 
> > > > auctioneer, and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > > > 
> > > > AUCTION 1: the white land unit at (+3, -1)
> > > > 
> > > > AUCTION 2: the white land unit at (+5, 0)
> > > > 
> > > > AUCTION 3: the white land unit at (+6, 0)
> > > > 
> > > > AUCTION 4: the black land unit at (+6, +1)
> > > > 
> > > > AUCTION 5: the black land unit at (+6, +2)
> > > 
> > > I bid half a dozen coins in auction 4.
> > > 
> > > Be seeing you.

Re: Fwd: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Agora and G. accumulate more wealth; zombies & public facilities bankrupt, as always

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I suppose there's rule 2143/27, which says:

A person SHALL NOT publish information that is inaccurate or
misleading while performing an official duty, or within a document
purporting to be part of any person or office's weekly or monthly
report.

But the statement "Corona intends to win by Apathy without objection" was 
perfectly accurate, so I don't think it applies here. Maybe one could argue 
that its position within the document was misleading, but does the location of 
a piece of information count as information itself?

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 11, 2018 11:49 AM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> CFJs can only interpret rules, and I don't know any rules that could be
> 
> reasonably construed to mean that what I did was illegal.
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> 
> From: Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com
> 
> Date: Monday, June 11, 2018
> 
> Subject: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Agora and G. accumulate more
> 
> wealth; zombies & public facilities bankrupt, as always
> 
> To: "Agora Nomic discussions (DF)" agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
> 
> Don't we have a CFJ ruling that trying to insert apathy wins in a report
> 
> was an abuse? Or it might have been the opposite. But I vividly remember
> 
> such a CFJ.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:52 AM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
> 
> > y'know, that was a silly reaction. I give 2 incense to Corona.
> > 
> > On Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > > I Object to the intent.
> > > 
> > > I Levy a fine of 2 Blots on Corona (Summary Judgement) for this
> > > 
> > > abuse of office.
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I object to Corona's intent to win by Apathy.
> > > > 
> > > > I nominate myself for Treasuror.
> > > > 
> > > > -twg
> > > > 
> > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > 
> > > > On June 10, 2018 8:12 PM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > [Sun Jun 10 22:12] This line is not a part of the report. Corona
> > > > > 
> > > > > intends to
> > > 
> > > > win by Apathy without objection.
> 
> --
> 
> From V.J. Rada
> 
> 
> --
> 
> ~Corona

DIS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 1

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Lovely. I pay 6 coins to Agora to transfer the land unit at (+5, 0) to myself.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 1:00 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I resolve the land auctions as such (yes i know they should have ended
> 
> last week, screw off):
> 
> AUCTION 1
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> twg 2c.
> 
> G. 5c.
> 
> Corona 6c.
> 
> G. 8c.
> 
> AUCTION 2
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> -
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> G. 3c.
> 
> twg 4c.
> 
> Corona 5c.
> 
> twg 6c.
> 
> AUCTION 3
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> Corona 5c.
> 
> AUCTION 4
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> Murphy 6c.
> 
> Corona 7c.
> 
> Murphy 8c.
> 
> AUCTION 5
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> Corona 5c.
> 
> Murphy 6c.
> 
> Wow, this was disappointing.
> 
> On 05/31/2018 04:59 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
> 
> > There are currently 7 public, unpreserved, non-aether land units in
> > 
> > existence. 5 land units of my choice are put up for auction.
> > 
> > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > 
> > auctioneer, and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > 
> > AUCTION 1: the white land unit at (+3, -1)
> > 
> > AUCTION 2: the white land unit at (+5,  0)
> > 
> > AUCTION 3: the white land unit at (+6,  0)
> > 
> > AUCTION 4: the black land unit at (+6, +1)
> > 
> > AUCTION 5: the black land unit at (+6, +2)
> 
> --
> 
> Trigon

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 3

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I bid 10 coins in auction 1.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 8:41 AM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I bid 11 coins in auction 3 and I bid 9 coins in auction 1.
> 
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I withdraw my bid in auction 3. I bid 8 coins in auction 1.
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 12, 2018 7:53 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > I bid ten coins in auction 3
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I bid 9 coins in auction 3.
> > > > 
> > > > -twg
> > > > 
> > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > 
> > > > On June 12, 2018 6:24 AM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I bid eight (8) coins in each auction.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 6:28 AM, Ned Strange
> > > > > 
> > > > > edwardostra...@gmail.com
> > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I bid six coins in each auction
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Kerim Aydin
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I bid 5 coins in each auction.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I bid 3 coins in each auction
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Kerim Aydin
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > 
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I bid 2 coins in each auction. -G.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > land units
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > choice are
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > put up for
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > auction.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > From this point on, I intend to prioritize land units
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > closer to the
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > center
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > island over those on the rim since those are probably more
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > useful.
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > auctioneer, and
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (+3, +1)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (+3, -2)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (+4, -1)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-2, 0)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 5: the land unit at (-3, 0)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Trigon
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > From V.J. Rada
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > From V.J. Rada
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > From V.J. Rada
> 
> --
> 
> ~Corona

DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating type.
> 
> I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1) doesn't 
have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. I think you meant 
to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come up with a parsing where 
"that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).

-twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Sorry. :P I just figured it would be more helpful to speak up now instead of 
risking the possibility that the Treasuror would rule against it in eir next 
report without pointing it out to anyone. I don't know whether your argument is 
valid (or even whether mine was in the first place).

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On June 12, 2018 10:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out how I 
> messed up?
>
> Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
>
> I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a land unit 
> I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since that's the 
> only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt succeeds.
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>
>> On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
>>
>>> I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating type.
>>>
>>> I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1) doesn't 
>> have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. I think you 
>> meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come up with a parsing 
>> where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
>>
>> -twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I wasn't aware of that definition of "silly" (I can't find it in the FLR, so I 
assume the rule was repealed). But in any case, I think common sense indicates 
that your own assessment of what "significantly harms" you is more accurate 
than mine, so since you disagree, I believe that means my actions on your 
behalf fail.

I didn't mean to cause any offense, I just thought it was amusing. :)

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 10:47 AM, Ned Strange  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I call a CFJ with the statement "The four below actions are each
> 
> extremely silly, and none significantly harm my standing in the game".
> 
> None of them are remotely silly. Silly in an Agoran context is a
> 
> common-law term of art related to Silly proposals. Even if not, no
> 
> ordinary meaning of the word silly encompasses these game actions. And
> 
> also, even if losing two apples doesn't harm me, losing 3 stone, two
> 
> ore and 2 apples does. The actions must all be evaluated seperately,
> 
> so even if the first three actions work, the fourth should not.
> 
> Anyway, significantly should be interpreted as "not de minimis", and
> 
> any asset loss is more than a minimal effect on my standing in the
> 
> game.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:39 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
> > 
> > I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
> > 
> > Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
> > 
> > Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
> > 
> > }
> > 
> > This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only 
> > necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it meets 
> > the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game 
> > significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples (which 
> > ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a 
> > preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough assets 
> > not to have much need of).
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > it doesn't, do it again
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out 
> > > > how I
> > > > 
> > > > messed up?
> > > > 
> > > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
> > > > 
> > > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a land
> > > > 
> > > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
> > > > 
> > > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt 
> > > > succeeds.
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating 
> > > > > > type.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
> > > > > 
> > > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. 
> > > > > I
> > > > > 
> > > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come 
> > > > > up with
> > > > > 
> > > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
> > > > > 
> > > > > -twg
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > From V.J. Rada
> 
> --
> 
> From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I actually knew that already, so I'm not sure what I was thinking when I wrote 
that. Thanks for the correction, though.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 12:35 PM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> FYI: The Spivak pronoun nominative is "e", not "ey" (reflecting "he" and
> 
> "she"), though you can, of course, use any pronouns you want.
> 
> I favor the CFJ called by V.J. Rada in this thread.
> 
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
> > 
> > I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
> > 
> > Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
> > 
> > Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
> > 
> > }
> > 
> > This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only
> > 
> > necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it meets
> > 
> > the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game
> > 
> > significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples (which
> > 
> > ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a
> > 
> > preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough assets
> > 
> > not to have much need of).
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > it doesn't, do it again
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out
> > > > 
> > > > how I
> > > 
> > > > messed up?
> > > > 
> > > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
> > > > 
> > > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a
> > > > 
> > > > land
> > > 
> > > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
> > > > 
> > > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt
> > > > 
> > > > succeeds.
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > type.
> > > 
> > > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
> > > > > 
> > > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing
> > > > > 
> > > > > anyway. I
> > > 
> > > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come
> > > > > 
> > > > > up with
> > > 
> > > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
> > > > > 
> > > > > -twg
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > From V.J. Rada
> 
> --
> 
> ~Corona

DIS: Re: BUS: Pay Agora for your land units! (attn: Murphy, twg)

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I was under the impression that, per rule 2551/1, paying for an auction lot is 
done by transferring the amount of the bid to the auctioneer (in this case, 
Agora), not by destroying the coins.

I already did the former, here: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg32012.html

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 13, 2018 2:26 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> In order for the transfer of lots at the end of an auction to take
> 
> place, the highest bidder must send a message to the public forum
> 
> stating that they destroy some amount of coins in exchange for the lot.
> 
> Murphy, you need to destroy 14 coins. twg, you need to destroy 6 coins.
> 
> Failing to do so means you don't get the land units. So... get on that.
> 
> Please and thank you,
> 
> your humble mapmaker,
> 
> Trigon

Re: DIS: Re: BAK: [Assessor] Humiliations Galore

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On June 13, 2018 7:50 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> So the second copy (sent to both BAK and BUS) came to both BAK and BUS,
> 
> I got both copies. Then your reply to DIS came through. I replied to you
> 
> in DIS, and my reply seems to have been eaten too. Also, the mailman web
> 
> archives aren't responding.

If you mean your reply at 7:14 PM UTC, I received it successfully.

I also can't access the mailman archives, although the ones on mail-archive.com 
are working fine for me: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/

Has anything like this happened before? If so, does omd tend to notice and 
respond, or should we get in touch with em directly?

-twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Pledge handoff to Notary

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Sorry, was about to get around to responding to this chain.

I have NOT received the email resolving proposals 8050-8052. It's not in my 
spam folder either.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 15, 2018 8:45 PM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Poll: Who has and hasn't received the email? Please reply, and we'll use
> 
> the honor system.
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 1:43 PM Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > 
> > > Oops. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that one has been resolved. I retract my
> > > 
> > > prior
> > > 
> > > CFJ, and CFJ "Proposal 8050 has been resolved."
> > 
> > Gratuitous: The email in question was delivered to my own inbox via the
> > 
> > list
> > 
> > reasonably quickly after I sent it. I'm including the full headers below
> > 
> > in
> > 
> > case it helps interpret anything:
> > 
> > Return-Path: agora-official-boun...@agoranomic.org
> > 
> > Received: via tmail-2007f.22 (invoked by user kerim) for kerim+mail/agora;
> > 
> > Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
> > 
> > Received: from mxe29.s.uw.edu (mxe29.s.uw.edu [173.250.227.18])
> > 
> > by cg04.u.washington.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with ESMTP
> > 
> > id w5EImGAx024904
> > 
> > for ke...@kerim.deskmail.washington.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:48:16
> > 
> > -0700
> > 
> > Received: from vps.qoid.us ([71.19.146.223])
> > 
> > by mxe29.s.uw.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with SMTP id
> > 
> > w5EIm5nl013556
> > 
> > for ke...@u.washington.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:48:05 -0700
> > 
> > Received: (qmail 25986 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2018 18:48:04 -
> > 
> > Received: from vps.qoid.us (127.0.0.1)
> > 
> > by vps.qoid.us with SMTP; 14 Jun 2018 18:48:04 -
> > 
> > Delivered-To: agn-agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> > 
> > Received: (qmail 25977 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2018 18:48:02 -
> > 
> > Received: from mxout21.s.uw.edu (140.142.32.139)
> > 
> > by vps.qoid.us with SMTP; 14 Jun 2018 18:48:02 -
> > 
> > Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.234.163])
> > 
> > by mxout21.s.uw.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with ESMTP id
> > 
> > w5EIlNUY013073
> > 
> > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK)
> > 
> > for agora-offic...@agoranomic.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 -0700
> > 
> > X-Auth-Received: from hymn01.u.washington.edu (hymn01.u.washington.edu
> > 
> > [140.142.9.110]) (authenticated authid=mailadm)
> > 
> > by smtp.washington.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with ESMTP id
> > 
> > w5EIlNOo032150
> > 
> > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
> > 
> > for agora-offic...@agoranomic.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 -0700
> > 
> > X-UW-Orig-Sender: mail...@smtp.washington.edu
> > 
> > X-Auth-Received: from [161.55.36.23] by hymn01.u.washington.edu via HTTP;
> > 
> > Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 PDT
> > 
> > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
> > 
> > From: Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> > 
> > To: Agora Official agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> > 
> > Message-ID: alpine.lrh.2.01.1806141147230.22...@hymn01.u.washington.edu
> > 
> > User-Agent: Web Alpine 2.01 (LRH 1302 2010-07-20)
> > 
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > 
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > 
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
> > 
> > X-PMX-Version: 6.4.3.2751440, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409,
> > 
> > Antispam-Data: 2018.6.14.183916, AntiVirus-Engine: 5.49.1, AntiVirus-Data:
> > 
> > 2018.4.20.5491003
> > 
> > X-PMX-Server: mxe29.s.uw.edu
> > 
> > X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=, Probability=8%, Report=
> > 
> > REPLYTO_FROM_DIFF_ADDY 0.1, HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05,
> > 
> > BODY_SIZE_6000_6999 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, DATE_TZ_NA 0, DQ_S_H 0,
> > 
> > NO_CTA_URI_FOUND 0, NO_URI_FOUND 0,
> > 
> > NO_URI_HTTPS 0, RDNS_NXDOMAIN 0, RDNS_SUSP 0, RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC 0,
> > 
> > SPF_NONE 0, __CP_NOT_1 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0,
> > 
> > __DQ_IP_FSO_LARGE 0, __DQ_S_HIST_1 0,
> > 
> > __DQ_S_HIST_2 0, __DQ_S_IP_MC_5_P 0, __DQ_S_IP_SD_1_P 0, __HAS_FROM
> > 
> > 0, __HAS_LIST_HEADER 0, __HAS_LIST_HELP 0, __HAS_LIST_ID 0,
> > 
> > __HAS_LIST_SUBSCRIBE 0,
> > 
> > __HAS_LIST_UNSUBSCRIBE 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_REPLYTO 0,
> > 
> > __INVOICE_MULTILINGUAL 0, __LINES_OF_YELLING 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0,
> > 
> > __MIME_TEXT_P 0, __MIME_TEXT_P1 0,
> > 
> > __MIME_VERSION 0, __NO_HTML_TAG_RAW 0, __SANE_MSGID 0,
> > 
> > __STOCK_PHRASE_24 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NAME
> > 
> > 0, __TO_NAME_DIFF_FROM_ACC 0,
> > 
> > __TO_REAL_NAMES 0, __USER_AGENT 0
> > 
> > Subject: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8050-8052
> > 
> > X-BeenThere: agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> > 
> > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
> > 
> > Precedence: list
> > 
> > List-Id: "Agora Nomic reports, etc. (PF)"  > 
> > > 
> > 
> > List-Unsubscribe: <
> > 
> > http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/agora-official>,
> > 
> > mailto:agora-official-re

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Pledge handoff to Notary

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I don't believe I've received this second attempt either.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 15, 2018 8:45 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> 
> > Oops. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that one has been resolved. I retract my prior
> > 
> > CFJ, and CFJ "Proposal 8050 has been resolved."
> 
> Except now - haha - I made a second, hopefully successful attempt to resolve a
> 
> few moments before this second CFJ came in, so this would now be true if
> 
> that second attempt succeeded - sorry about that...

DIS: Re: BUS: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8050-8052 (second fwd)

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Received

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 15, 2018 9:00 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> If I have not previous resolved decisions to adopt Proposals 8050-8052,
> 
> I resolve them as indicated in the original message below.
> 
> [Please confirm receipt, someone!]
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> 
> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 13:34:55 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> From: Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> 
> To: Agora Official agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> 
> Subject: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8050-8052 (fwd)
> 
> If the below decisions were not resolved on the date indicated below,
> 
> I resolve them as indicated:
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> 
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> From: Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> 
> To: Agora Official agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> 
> Subject: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8050-8052
> 
> I resolve the Agoran Decisions to adopt Proposals 8050-8052 as follows.
> 
> Quorum is 6 for all of these proposals.
> 
> 8050 (Pledge Simply by G., AI-1.7)
> 
> FOR: V.J. Rada, 2xG., Corona, twg, Aris
> 
> AGAINST:
> 
> PRESENT: Murphy
> 
> F/A: 6/0
> 
> RESULT: ADOPTED
> 
> 8051 (Zombie Overhaul v1.0 by G., Aris, AI-3.0)
> 
> FOR: V.J. Rada, 2xG., o, Telnaior, omd, pokes, twg, Aris
> 
> AGAINST:
> 
> PRESENT: Murphy, Corona
> 
> F/A: 9/0
> 
> RESULT: ADOPTED
> 
> 8052 (Let's not make game assets one letter different from each other
> 
> by V.J. Rada, AI-3.0)
> 
> FOR: Murphy, Aris, twg, 2xG.
> 
> AGAINST:
> 
> PRESENT: o, Telnaior
> 
> F/A: 5/0
> 
> RESULT: ADOPTED
> 
> TEXT OF ADOPTED PROPOSALS
> 
> //
> 
> ID: 8050
> 
> Title: Pledge Simply
> 
> Adoption index: 1.7
> 
> Author: G.
> 
> Co-authors:
> 
> [The Asset-nature of pledges is complicated and serves no purpose;
> 
> if pledges are to be used for out-of-Agora agreements, the Agoran
> 
> Consent constraint makes no sense as it's not a voting matter].
> 
> Amend Rule 2450 (Pledges) to read in full:
> 
> If a Player makes a clear public pledge (syn. Oath) to perform
> 
> (or refrain from performing) certain actions, then breaking the
> 
> pledge within the pledge's time window is the Class N crime of
> 
> Oathbreaking, where N is 2 unless the pledge explicitly states
> 
> otherwise. The time window of a pledge is 60 days, unless
> 
> the pledge explicitly states otherwise.
> 
> If breaking the pledge harms specific other parties, the Referee
> 
> SHOULD solicit the opinion of those parties in determining an
> 
> appropriate fine.
> 
> The Notary's Weekly Report includes a copy of all pledges that
> 
> are within their time window, and the dates the pledges were
> 
> made.
> 
> All pledges that existed as assets the instant before this Proposal
> 
> took effect are hereby made pledges under the current version of
> 
> Rule 2450, with their creation dates equal to their date of creation
> 
> as assets.
> 
> //
> 
> ID: 8051
> 
> Title: Zombie Overhaul v1.0
> 
> Adoption index: 3.0
> 
> Author: G.
> 
> Co-authors: Aris
> 
> [TODO: Check proposals adopted since the last SLR for conflicts]
> 
> Create the following Rule, Zombie Life Cycle, power=3:
> 
> Any player CAN, with Notice, flip the master switch of an active
> 
> player who has not made a public announcement in the past 60 days
> 
> to Agora.
> 
> Resale is a secured natural switch for zombies, tracked by the
> 
> Registrar, with a default value of 2. Whenever a zombie's master
> 
> switch is flipped to a player other than emself, eir resale value
> 
> is decreased by 1.
> 
> A zombie with a resale value of 0 CANNOT have eir master switch
> 
> flipped to a player other than emself, rules to the contrary
> 
> notwithstanding.
> 
> Any player CAN, with Notice:
> 
> - If a zombie has been a zombie for the past 90 days and not had
> 
> Agora for a master during any of that time, flip the zombie's
> 
> master switch to Agora;
> 
> - If a player is master to more than one zombie, flip the master
> 
> switch of one of that master's zombies to Agora;
> 
> - Deregister a zombie whose master is Agora and who has a Resale
> 
> value of 0.
> 
> The Registrar SHALL track the date that each zombie last belonged
> 
> to Agora in eir weekly report. The Registrar SHALL perform all
> 
> POSSIBLE actions in the preceding paragraph in a timely fashion
> 
> after first reporting their possibility via the facts in eir
> 
> weekly report.
> 
> Amend Rule 2532 (Zombies) to read in full:
> 
> Master is a secured player switch with possible values of any
> 
> player, and Agora. Every player's default master is emself; rules
> 
> to the contrary notwithstanding, a player CAN always flip eir own
> 
> master to emself by announcement.
> 
> A player whose master is not emself is a zombie (syn. inactive);
> 
> all other players are active. A zombie's master, if another
> 
> player, is allowed to ac

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Pledge handoff to Notary

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Not sure if this helps, but I sent a test email to Official on Friday to try 
and narrow down the problem. It hasn't even showed up in the list at 
mail-archive.com, let alone been delivered to anybody.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 16, 2018 11:22 PM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Okay, anyone using gmail didn't receive it. However, this can't just be
> 
> gmail's fault, because plenty of people who aren't using gmail also haven't
> 
> received it. I'm quite confused. It would be great if those who have
> 
> received the messages could look at the headers and see if anything looks
> 
> different from pre-problem OFF and the other lists, because this is just
> 
> weird.
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > same
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 12:41 AM, ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > The original message? No, I haven't received it.
> > > 
> > > On 6/15/2018 4:45 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Poll: Who has and hasn't received the email? Please reply, and we'll use
> > > > 
> > > > the honor system.
> > > > 
> > > > -Aris
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 1:43 PM Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Oops. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that one has been resolved. I retract my
> > > > > 
> > > > > prior
> > > > > 
> > > > > > CFJ, and CFJ "Proposal 8050 has been resolved."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Gratuitous: The email in question was delivered to my own inbox via
> > > > > 
> > > > > the
> > > 
> > > > > list
> > > > > 
> > > > > reasonably quickly after I sent it. I'm including the full headers
> > > > > 
> > > > > below
> > > 
> > > > > in
> > > > > 
> > > > > case it helps interpret anything:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Return-Path: agora-official-boun...@agoranomic.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > Received: via tmail-2007f.22 (invoked by user kerim) for
> > > > > 
> > > > > kerim+mail/agora;
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Received: from mxe29.s.uw.edu (mxe29.s.uw.edu [173.250.227.18])
> > > > > 
> > > > > by cg04.u.washington.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with
> > > > > 
> > > > > ESMTP
> > > 
> > > > > id w5EImGAx024904
> > > > > 
> > > > > for ke...@kerim.deskmail.washington.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2018
> > > > > 
> > > > > 11:48:16
> > > > > 
> > > > > -0700
> > > > > 
> > > > > Received: from vps.qoid.us ([71.19.146.223])
> > > > > 
> > > > > by mxe29.s.uw.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with SMTP id
> > > > > 
> > > > > w5EIm5nl013556
> > > > > 
> > > > > for ke...@u.washington.edu; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:48:05 -0700
> > > > > 
> > > > > Received: (qmail 25986 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2018 18:48:04
> > > > > 
> > > > > -
> > > 
> > > > > Received: from vps.qoid.us (127.0.0.1)
> > > > > 
> > > > > by vps.qoid.us with SMTP; 14 Jun 2018 18:48:04 -
> > > > > 
> > > > > Delivered-To: agn-agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > Received: (qmail 25977 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2018 18:48:02
> > > > > 
> > > > > -
> > > 
> > > > > Received: from mxout21.s.uw.edu (140.142.32.139)
> > > > > 
> > > > > by vps.qoid.us with SMTP; 14 Jun 2018 18:48:02 -
> > > > > 
> > > > > Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu
> > > > > 
> > > > > [140.142.234.163])
> > > > > 
> > > > > by mxout21.s.uw.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with ESMTP id
> > > > > 
> > > > > w5EIlNUY013073
> > > > > 
> > > > > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256
> > > > > 
> > > > > verify=OK)
> > > > > 
> > > > > for agora-offic...@agoranomic.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23
> > > > > 
> > > > > -0700
> > > 
> > > > > X-Auth-Received: from hymn01.u.washington.edu (hymn01.u.washington.edu
> > > > > 
> > > > > [140.142.9.110]) (authenticated authid=mailadm)
> > > > > 
> > > > > by smtp.washington.edu (8.14.4+UW14.03/8.14.4+UW16.03) with ESMTP
> > > > > 
> > > > > id
> > > 
> > > > > w5EIlNOo032150
> > > > > 
> > > > > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
> > > > > 
> > > > > for agora-offic...@agoranomic.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23
> > > > > 
> > > > > -0700
> > > 
> > > > > X-UW-Orig-Sender: mail...@smtp.washington.edu
> > > > > 
> > > > > X-Auth-Received: from [161.55.36.23] by hymn01.u.washington.edu via
> > > > > 
> > > > > HTTP;
> > > 
> > > > > Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 PDT
> > > > > 
> > > > > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > > > 
> > > > > To: Agora Official agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > Message-ID: <
> > > > > 
> > > > > alpine.lrh.2.01.1806141147230.22...@hymn01.u.washington.edu>
> > > 
> > > > > User-Agent: Web Alpine 2.01 (LRH 1302 2010-07-20)
> > > > > 
> > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > > > 
> > > > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > > > > 
> > > > > Content-Transf

DIS: Re: BUS: Election update

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I vote [twg, ATMunn, Corona] in the Treasuror election and PRESENT in the 
Referee election.

-twg
​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 17, 2018 6:55 PM, Edward Murphy  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Referee
> 
> election. The vote collector is the ADoP (me), the valid options are
> 
> Aris and Corona and V.J. Rada and anyone else who becomes a candidate
> 
> before voting ends, and the voting method is instant runoff. And I
> 
> think quorum is 4 (due to 6 players voting on Proposal 8052).
> 
> Rulekeepor election ends with no candidates.
> 
> I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Treasuror
> 
> election. The vote collector is the ADoP, the valid options are
> 
> ATMunn and Corona and twg and anyone else who becomes a candidate
> 
> before voting ends, and the voting method is instant runoff. And I
> 
> think quorum is 4.

DIS: Re: BUS: [Treasuror] new layout with zombies separated - do you like it?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

; [Wed Apr 11 08:37:50] Corona doubleposted the previous conditional action
> 
> (nothing happened) and if the orchard (-1,1) was nonempty (TRUE), Corona
> 
> looted it, destroying 2 apples
> 
> [Wed Apr 11 07:39:24] If mine at (-1,-1) was nonempty (TRUE), Corona looted
> 
> it via Quazie, transferring & destroying 3 apples
> 
> [Wed Apr 11 07:16:45] Trigon moved around, looted (from (1,1)) & built,
> 
> destroying 2 apples, 1 corn, 5 stones, 4 lumber and 3 coins
> 
> Tue Apr 10 13:28:06] ATMunn paid 10 coins to Agora for zombie nichdel
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 13:23:36] Gaelan transferred 13 coins to Agora for the land
> 
> unit (-1,-2)
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 06:43:05] Corona looted Quazie’s body and paid 31 coins to
> 
> Agora for 2 land units
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 06:29:13] Trigon paid 15 coins to Agora for the land unit (0,-2)
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 05:34:04] Kenyon paid 13 coins to Agora for the land unit (-1,2)
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 05:23:17] Corona paid 5 coins to Agora for zombie Quazie
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 04:31:55] VJ Rada looted PSS’s body
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 01:53:08] G. spent 1 paper to pend “Nothing to worry about”
> 
> [Tue Apr 10 01:12:02] VJ Rada transferred 12 coins to Agora for zombie PSS
> 
> [Mon Apr 9 17:58:39] G. looted pokes’ and o’s bodies
> 
> [Mon Apr 9 17:55:58] G. paid 21 coins to Agora on behalf of omd for zombie
> 
> pokes, G. paid 21 coins to Agora for zombie o
> 
> [Mon Apr 9 17:26:41] G. transferred 25 coins to omd
> 
> [Mon Apr 09 00:00] new week begins (assets are produced in facilities)
> 
> [Sun Apr 8 19:11:06] Kenyon pended “Paydays Fix” with 1 paper
> 
> [Sun Apr 8 13:25:58] ATMunn gave Kenyon 2 coins for reports
> 
> [Sat Apr 7 19:30:53] Trigon moved around and created land units, using 15
> 
> apples
> 
> [Thu Apr 5 00:52:50] Kenyon pended “Gray Land and the Fountain” with 1 paper
> 
> [Tue Apr 3 13:15:34] ATMunn destroyed an apple to move to (-1,0) and
> 
> destroyed an apple to move to (-1,1) and transferred all assets (none) from
> 
> (-1,1) to emself
> 
> [Tue Apr 3 04:59:23] Gaelan destroyed 2 apples to move to (-1,-1) and
> 
> grabbed everything there (9 stones, 6 ore)
> 
> [Mon Apr 2 16:52:14] Corona took all contents (6 stones, 4 ore) of the mine
> 
> at (1, 1)
> 
> [Mon Apr 2 16:24:01] Kenyon took all contents (6 apples, 6 lumber) of the
> 
> orchard at (-1,1)
> 
> [Mon Apr 2 06:37:25] G. acted on behalf of omd to transfer all eir
> 
> currencies to emself
> 
> [Mon Apr 02 00:00] new week begins (assets are produced in facilities)
> 
> [Sun Apr 01 22:46] Gaelan destroyed 1 paper to pend Cross-Polination
> 
> [Sun Apr 01 00:00] new month begins (payday)
> 
> [Mon Mar 26 14:21] ATMunn destroyed 1 paper to pend Free Tournaments
> 
> [Mon Mar 26 00:00] new week begins (assets are produced in facilities)
> 
> [Fri Mar 23 20:52] Reportor repealed by Proposal 8027
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 22:56] Corona transferred all currencies (3 stones, 2 ore) from
> 
> 1,1 to Corona
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 15:50] Murphy resolved the Rulekeepor election, no candidates
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 15:50] Murphy resolved the Referee election, electing Cuddle
> 
> Beam
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 15:50] Murphy resolved the Prime Minister election, electing G.
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 15:50] Murphy resolved the Notary election, electing VJ Rada
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 15:37] CuddleBeam transferred all currencies (6 corn, 6 cotton)
> 
> from 1,-1 to CuddleBeam
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 14:24] G. destroyed 1 paper to pend Blots v1.0
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 01:17] if -1,1 has any assets (true), Kenyon transferred all
> 
> currencies (6 apples, 6 lumber) from -1,1 to Kenyon
> 
> [Mon Mar 19 00:00] new week begins (assets are produced in facilities)
> 
> [Sun Mar 18 13:18] Aris transferred all currencies (nothing) from -1,-1 to
> 
> Aris
> 
> [Fri Mar 16 22:05] if PAoaM Patch isn't pending (false), Kenyon destroyed 1
> 
> paper to pend PAoaM Patch
> 
> [Fri Mar 16 18:06] ATMunn destroyed 1 paper to pend PAoaM Patch
> 
> [Mon Mar 12 16:28] if there exists a mine at 1,1 and 1,1 has any assets
> 
> (true), Corona transferred all currencies (3 stones, 2 ore) from 1,1 to
> 
> Corona
> 
> [Mon Mar 12 16:28] if there exists a mine at 1,1 and 1,1 has any assets
> 
> (true), Corona destroyed 2 apples
> 
> [Mon Mar 12 01:28] if -1,-1 has any assets (false), Aris transferred all
> 
> currencies (nothing) from -1,-1 to Aris
> 
> [Mon Mar 12 01:28] if -1,-1 has any assets (false), Aris destroyed 2 apples
> 
> [Mon Mar 12 01:12] Kenyon transferred all currencies (3 stones, 2 ore) from
> 
> -1,-1 to Kenyon
> 
> [Mon Mar 12 00:00] new week begins (assets are 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Treasuror] new layout with zombies separated - do you like it?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Yes, Corona's incense balance is correct now. But yours, G., was 33 in the last 
report, and is still 33, despite giving 2 incense to Corona.

When I said it "effectively cancels out the six-incense-for-four-blots 
confusion", I meant that it would have the same effect as if you hadn't given 
Corona the incense, and e had only destroyed 4 incense to expunge eir 4 blots - 
which presumably would have been your respective intentions if you'd been aware 
at the time that the attempt to impose Summary Judgement would be ineffective. 
I'm aware this makes assumptions about your intentions which aren't necessarily 
my place to make, which is why I left it up to either of you (or, technically, 
I suppose, anyone else) to make an actual CoE if you felt it appropriate.

(I also have a feeling that I'm horribly overthinking this!)

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 18, 2018 6:09 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> E had 20 incense in the last report.
> 
> Indicated on transfers:
> 
> -   destroyed 3 to expunge 3 blots.
> -   destroyed 6 to expunge 4 blots (questionable).
> -   given 2 by G.
> 
> Net, counting the questionable 6: 13 incense.
> 
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> 
> 
> > This time you gave yourself the 2 incense but didn't take it away from G. 
> > (I accept partial responsibility, since it would probably have been more 
> > helpful if I'd written "numbers" instead of "number" in my CoE...)
> > 
> > I'm not going to raise another formal CoE because this error effectively 
> > cancels out the six-incense-for-four-blots confusion, so I don't think it 
> > would be entirely unfair to let it self-ratify - I'll leave it up to your 
> > (and G.'s) discretion.
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 18, 2018 5:54 PM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry. Revision:
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |ATMunn | 6| 32| 1| 0| 7| 0| 64| 14| 0| 12|
> > > 
> > > |Aris | 5| 30| 9| 0| 5| 0| 97| 7| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |Corona | 28| 76| 28| 0| 8| 30| 76| 29| 0| 13|
> > > 
> > > |CuddleBeam | 11| 18| 9| 4| 8| 9| 50| 10| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |G. | 25| 85| 15| 0| 18| 0| 116| 52| 0| 33|
> > > 
> > > |Gaelan | 14| 28| 2| 6| 2| 0| 47| 10| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |Kenyon | 14| 37| 4| 6| 20| 3| 45| 9| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |Murphy | 5| 30| 4| 0| 8| 0| 56| 11| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |omd | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Ouri | 0| 10| 0| 0| 0| 0| 24| 4| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |PSS | 5| 15| 0| 0| 5| 0| 20| 5| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > |Trigon | 6| 11| 15| 4| 2| 15| 30| 7| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |twg | 3| 8| 0| 2| 5| 0| 14| 5| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > |VJ Rada | 10| 55| 2| 0| 10| 0| 78| 17| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |nichdel | 0| 5| 0| 0| 0| 0| 10| 2| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > |o | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |pokes | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Quazie | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Telnaior | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |天火狐 | 0| 5| 0| 0| 0| 0| 10| 2| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |farm (1,-1) | 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |mine (-1,-1) | 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |mine (1,1) | 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |orchard (-1,1) | 0| 3| 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s ref. (0,2) | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 259| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s mine (2,2) | 12| 0| 0| 8| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s orch. (2,1) | 0| 6| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s mine (2,-1) | 12| 0| 0| 4| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s orch.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Treasuror] new layout with zombies separated - do you like it?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Do you mean the formatting? Yeah, my email client is doing something bizarre 
with the formatting of messages I quote in replies. I reported it to the 
developers; apparently they're aware of it and working to fix it. Let me know 
if it's causing issues and I'll try to manually clean things up when replying 
to them.

It only happens for quoted messages, not to ones I write personally, so it 
shouldn't affect my reports if I'm elected Treasuror.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 18, 2018 6:08 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> yeah uh - what exactly happened here
> 
> On 6/18/2018 2:05 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> 
> > This time you gave yourself the 2 incense but didn't take it away from G. 
> > (I accept partial responsibility, since it would probably have been more 
> > helpful if I'd written "numbers" instead of "number" in my CoE...)
> > 
> > I'm not going to raise another formal CoE because this error effectively 
> > cancels out the six-incense-for-four-blots confusion, so I don't think it 
> > would be entirely unfair to let it self-ratify - I'll leave it up to your 
> > (and G.'s) discretion.
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 18, 2018 5:54 PM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry. Revision:
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |ATMunn | 6| 32| 1| 0| 7| 0| 64| 14| 0| 12|
> > > 
> > > |Aris | 5| 30| 9| 0| 5| 0| 97| 7| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |Corona | 28| 76| 28| 0| 8| 30| 76| 29| 0| 13|
> > > 
> > > |CuddleBeam | 11| 18| 9| 4| 8| 9| 50| 10| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |G. | 25| 85| 15| 0| 18| 0| 116| 52| 0| 33|
> > > 
> > > |Gaelan | 14| 28| 2| 6| 2| 0| 47| 10| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |Kenyon | 14| 37| 4| 6| 20| 3| 45| 9| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |Murphy | 5| 30| 4| 0| 8| 0| 56| 11| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |omd | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Ouri | 0| 10| 0| 0| 0| 0| 24| 4| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |PSS | 5| 15| 0| 0| 5| 0| 20| 5| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > |Trigon | 6| 11| 15| 4| 2| 15| 30| 7| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > |twg | 3| 8| 0| 2| 5| 0| 14| 5| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > |VJ Rada | 10| 55| 2| 0| 10| 0| 78| 17| 0| 11|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |nichdel | 0| 5| 0| 0| 0| 0| 10| 2| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > |o | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |pokes | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Quazie | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Telnaior | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |天火狐 | 0| 5| 0| 0| 0| 0| 10| 2| 0| 3|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > > |farm (1,-1) | 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |mine (-1,-1) | 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |mine (1,1) | 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |orchard (-1,1) | 0| 3| 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s ref. (0,2) | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 259| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s mine (2,2) | 12| 0| 0| 8| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s orch. (2,1) | 0| 6| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s mine (2,-1) | 12| 0| 0| 4| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s orch. (2,-2)| 0| 6| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Corona’s farm (1,-2) | 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |ATMunn’s farm (1,3) | 0| 0| 18| 0| 0| 18| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Trigon’s mine (0,-2) | 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |twg’s orch. (5,0) | 0| 3| 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |FPW | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > |Agora | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 384| 0| 0| 0|
> > > 
> > > +-++++---+++++++
> > > 
> > >

DIS: Draft contract for playing chess on the map

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I hadn't really paid much attention to contracts before the discussion last 
week, but I figured it would be fun to enter V.J. Rada's competition, if only 
for practice with writing legalistic documents. (I get the impression that 
subgames like this are probably better suited to actual rules, or birthday 
tournament regulations, but that wasn't what was on my mind at the time.)

What do people think of this? Would you take part if I actually created this 
contract? More importantly, can you see any loopholes or mistakes?

---

PREAMBLE. This contract is to be interpreted as if it were capable of defining 
switches. (Parties to this contract are ENCOURAGED to vote for any Proposal 
that would enable backing documents to define switches possessed by the assets 
those backing documents define.) In this contract, the words "take", "castle", 
"check" and "checkmate" and their conjugations are to be interpreted according 
to their generally accepted definitions in the context of the game of chess. 
Where this contract contradicts itself, later statements take precedence over 
earlier ones. Anyone can become a party to this contract, or cease to be a 
party to this contract, by announcement. This contract is willing to receive 
coins.

DEFINITION OF CHESS PIECES. Chess pieces are a class of asset defined by this 
contract. Pawns, Rooks, Knights, Bishops, Queens and Kings are classes of chess 
piece defined by this contract. Ownership of chess pieces is restricted to 
Agora. Chess pieces can only be created, transferred or destroyed except as 
described in this contract. Each chess piece has a Colour switch whose possible 
values are Black and White, and a Position switch, whose possible values are 
any Unit of Land whose Latitude and Longitude are each between -3 and 4 
inclusive. A chess piece is "at X" if its Position switch is set to the Unit of 
Land associated with X. If the Cartographor is a party to this contract, e is 
the recordkeepor for chess pieces.

INITIAL SETUP. The following chess pieces are hereby created in the possession 
of this contract: White Pawns at (3, -3), (3, -2), (3, -1), (3, 0), (3, 1), (3, 
2), (3, 3) and (3, 4); White Rooks at (4, -3) and (4, 4); White Knights at (4, 
-2) and (4, 3); White Bishops at (4, -1) and (4, 2); a White Queen at (4, 0); a 
White King at (4, 1); Black Pawns at (-2, -3), (-2, -2), (-2, -1), (-2, 0), 
(-2, 1), (-2, 2), (-2, 3) and (-2, 4); Black Rooks at (-3, -3) and (-3, 4); 
Black Knights at (-3, -2) and (-3, 3); Black Bishops at (-3, -1) and (-3, 2); a 
Black Queen at (-3, 0); and a Black King at (-3, 1).

HOW TO MOVE PIECES. To move a given chess piece to a given Unit of Land is to 
flip the Position of that chess piece to that Unit of Land. Any party to this 
contract MAY, by announcement, move a chess piece. All other terms of this 
contract notwithstanding, people MUST NOT move chess pieces if doing so would 
not comply with the generally accepted rules of the game of chess, taking the 
direction of positive Latitude to be the direction of motion of Black Pawns. 
When a chess piece is taken, it is destroyed. When a person moves or creates a 
chess piece such that a chess piece is taken or a King is in check, e SHOULD 
draw attention to this fact in the same message.

TAKING TURNS. When a party to this contract moves a White chess piece for the 
first time, e becomes considered "White" for the purposes of this contract, and 
when a party to this contract moves a Black chess piece for the first time, e 
becomes considered "Black" for the purposes of this contract. Black people 
CANNOT move White chess pieces and White people CANNOT move Black chess pieces. 
The current turn is a singleton switch with possible values "White's turn" (the 
default value) and "Black's turn". While it is White's turn, people CANNOT move 
Black chess pieces, and while it is Black's turn, parties CANNOT move White 
chess pieces. It is flipped to White's turn whenever a Black chess piece is 
moved, and it is flipped to Black's turn whenever a White chess piece is moved.

SPECIAL MOVES. When a Pawn is moved to a Unit of Land with a Latitude of -3 or 
4, the person who moved the Pawn CAN and MUST in the same message, by 
announcement, create a Knight, Bishop, Rook or Queen with the same Colour and 
Position as the Pawn and then destroy the Pawn. When a King is castled, the 
person who castled the King CAN and MUST in the same message move a Rook with 
the same Colour as the King.

WINNING. When a King is checkmated, it is destroyed. People CANNOT move chess 
pieces if fewer than two Kings exist. In a timely fashion after a King is 
destroyed, parties to this contract SHOULD agree between themselves some reward 
for Black people (if the destroyed King was White) or White people (if the 
destroyed King was Black).

CLEANING UP. When this contract is destroyed, all chess pieces are destroyed.

---

Personally, I think it would be a little more interesting if it actually 
interacted in

Re: DIS: Draft contract for playing chess on the map

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback!

On June 21, 2018 1:59 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> Define who tracks these switches or are they untracked? (being the
> recordkeepor for chess pieces doesn't mean recordkeepor for the switches).
Ah, that's a misconception I hadn't realised I had - that switches are 
necessarily tracked by the same person as their entities. Looking over this 
that's actually the root cause of many of the other problems with this. I'll 
read the rules about switches more carefully and rephrase to accommodate them. 
Really

> More generally, this puts a burden on the Cartographer. And this also
> implies that if the Cartographer isn't a party, there's no recordkeepor?
My intention was that the Cartographor could choose, by becoming a party to the 
contract or not, whether to bother spending time trying to keep track of the 
pieces (actually the switches, see above). Mainly, it was just a way to keep up 
the "we are actually playing on the map" metaphor going. I don't think it would 
be too difficult to keep track of the board even without a recordkeepor - 
correspondence chess players manage it in real life all the time - but if it 
were converted to a tournament, the gamemaster would be the obvious choice for 
recordkeepor.

> > (Parties to this contract are ENCOURAGED to vote for
> > any Proposal that would enable backing documents to define switches
> > possessed by the assets those backing documents define.)
> There are arguments for or against this but I'd cut this and advocate/
> propose it separately.
Oh, I do intend to propose it separately as well - after Aris's "Minimalist 
Contracts" has been passed/rejected, so I know what it is I'm proposing an 
amendment to. I modelled it after the sentence in V.J. Rada's contract 
competition: "If nobody does anything interesting, parties to this Contract and 
non-parties SHOULD vote to repeal Contracts ASAP." It's not a particularly 
important part and I'd happily cut it out if you think it wise.

> > Any party to this contract MAY, by announcement, move a chess piece.
> I think in place of MAY you want "CAN, subject to the restrictions of
> this contract,"
Ah, I hadn't read rule 2152 carefully enough - I hadn't realised MAY and CAN 
were subtly different. Thanks for pointing that out. I believe the clause 
"subject to the restrictions of this contract" is covered by "Where this 
contract contradicts itself, later statements take precedence over earlier 
ones." near the beginning. In my first few drafts I did explicitly specify 
every time a statement overrode another, but that got unwieldy quickly; this 
way, as long as the paragraphs are ordered correctly, it can be parsed almost 
exactly the same way as natural language.

> Turn-based games can sometimes stall out waiting for the other players'
> turn - what happens if you end up with only one person taking black and
> they don't respond? Maybe add a game clock: "if a move isn't made by
> X time, than [either a PASS or the other side can move that color]"
Allowing either side to pass would make the game nearly unwinnable. (Actually, 
that reminds me that I didn't put in any allowance for a draw.) I see two 
possibilities - either allow the other side to move the colour, like you 
suggested, or just forfeit the game, which would be less complicated: "If, 
after the current turn is flipped, no party to this contract moves a chess 
piece in a timely fashion, the White King is destroyed if it is White's turn, 
and the Black King is destroyed if it is Black's turn."

> The way this reads, a player moves the pawn (successfully), but if
> e fails to create a piece, then e breaks the terms of the contract (fails
> the MUST) but the pawn is still stuck in the last rank and can't be
> converted.
Good point. Another way of doing this would be to decouple the promotion from 
the act of moving the pawn - something like "If there is a Pawn at [...], a 
party to this contract CAN and SHOULD, by announcement, destroy the Pawn and 
create a Knight, Bishop, Rook or Queen..." (with a restriction to players of 
the same colour as the pawn). And require that to happen before the other side 
takes their turn. That way there's less scope for a move to fail without anyone 
noticing, which would be bad.

> I'd hard-code the reward a bit more. I'd suggest making this a Free
> Tournament (R2566) although I don't know if having this be Regulations
> rather than a Contract makes anything in here not work (e.g. you can't
> become "party" to a set of regulations I don't think). You could do it
> by reference though. Set up the Contract, then make a Tournament with a
> single regulation: "whomever wins the Contract wins the Tournament".
Yes, I agree this is probably more suited to a tournament. (I'm sure it could 
be slightly rephrased to remove references to "parties", which would make it 
considerably simpler to read anyway.) I don't want to distract from the 
birthday tournament, though, and it clearly needs more work an

Re: DIS: Draft contract for playing chess on the map

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On June 23, 2018 10:07 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
> Ah, that's a misconception I hadn't realised I had - that switches are 
> necessarily tracked by the same person as their entities. Looking over this 
> that's actually the root cause of many of the other problems with this. I'll 
> read the rules about switches more carefully and rephrase to accommodate 
> them. Really

Please ignore the "Really", it was the first part of a sentence I (intended to) 
cut out during editing.

-twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8054-8057

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Actually, I wonder if the problems mightn't run even deeper than that. I don't 
think "I do the same thing as the last X people in this thread" necessarily 
implies "I do the same thing as the last X people in this thread _did in this 
thread_". Aris, V.J. Rada and I have all previously performed actions other 
than voting on these proposals, and "the same thing" (singular) is too 
ambiguous to distinguish any of those actions from the votes. So I would argue 
neither ATMunn nor Trigon, let alone Corona, have voted on these five proposals.

​​-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 23, 2018 9:33 PM, Alex Smith  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> On Sat, 2018-06-23 at 23:25 +0200, Corona wrote:
> 
> > I'm not using infinite regression. I'm basing my vote on the next
> > 
> > (hypothetical) player to vote, who would vote "I do the same as the last
> > 
> > six people in this thread", the six people being Aris, VJ Rada, twg,
> > 
> > ATMunn, Trigon (who all voted FOR all proposals) and me.
> > 
> > Thus the only way for their conditional vote to resolve as FOR all
> > 
> > proposals is for my conditional vote to resolve as FOR all proposals (if I
> > 
> > voted differently, their conditional vote would be indeterminate and
> > 
> > default to PRESENT).
> 
> Either you've done the same thing as the other people or you've done
> 
> something different.
> 
> If we're assuming that you've done something different, "I do the same
> 
> as the last six people in the thread" won't do anything because it's
> 
> too ambiguous.
> 
> If we're assuming that you've done something that's the same, then
> 
> you've made a conditional vote. So the next person, who's doing
> 
> something the same as everyone else (including you) is therefore making
> 
> a conditional vote, based on the hypothetical person after them.
> 
> If you're arguing "but it's only me who made a conditional vote, the
> 
> other people didn't!" then you're arguing that you've done something
> 
> that's relevantly different from the other people in the thread, and as
> 
> such your hypothetical can't possibly succeed.
> 
> 
> -
> 
> ais523

Re: DIS: hmmm?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I haven't received it, and I also haven't received any of PSS's messages to DIS 
that you're all replying to.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 24, 2018 4:20 PM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Neither have I.
> 
> ~Corona
> 
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> 
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I have not received it.
> > ---
> > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Nope, it was much later than that.
> > > 
> > > On 6/24/2018 10:11 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> > > 
> > > > This?
> > > > 
> > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > 
> > > > -- Forwarded message --
> > > > 
> > > > From: ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com
> > > > 
> > > > Date: Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 11:09 AM
> > > > 
> > > > Subject: Re: BUS: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8054-8057
> > > > 
> > > > To: agora-busin...@agoranomic.org
> > > > 
> > > > I do the same as the last three people in this thread.
> > > > 
> > > > On 6/23/2018 6:14 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I also vote FOR proposals 8053-8057.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -twg
> > > > > 
> > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > > 
> > > > > On June 23, 2018 8:41 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > I vote FOR each listed proposal
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Aris Merchant
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I vote as follows:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ID Author(s) AI Title Pender
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 8053* G., Aris 1.0 patch patch patch G. [1]
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 8054+ Aris, [2] 3.0 Minimalist Contracts v2 Aris
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 8055+ Aris, G. 3.0 Distributed Assets v3 Aris
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 8056+ Aris, G. 3.0 Deregulation Act v2 Aris
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 8057* Corona 1.0 No quorum, no medal Corona [1]
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -Aris
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: hmmm?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I haven't, no. Very bizarre. I have been receiving email from other Gmail users 
like ATMunn and Corona, so I'm not sure what the problem might be.

If it helps narrow anything down, the last email I received from you was on 
June 22, 2018 10:16 PM UTC, saying you liked Corona's suggestion of a 
hyperbolic map.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 24, 2018 6:08 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> twg
> 
> On 6/24/2018 12:55 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> 
> > This could be one of the infamous problems with gmail. Have you
> > 
> > received this message?
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > 
> > > I haven't received it, and I also haven't received any of PSS's messages 
> > > to DIS that you're all replying to.
> > > 
> > > -twg
> > > 
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > 
> > > On June 24, 2018 4:20 PM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Neither have I.
> > > > 
> > > > ~Corona
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> > > > 
> > > > p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I have not received it.
> > > > > ---
> > > > > 
> > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Nope, it was much later than that.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On 6/24/2018 10:11 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > This?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -- Forwarded message --
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > From: ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Date: Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 11:09 AM
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: BUS: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8054-8057
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To: agora-busin...@agoranomic.org
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I do the same as the last three people in this thread.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On 6/23/2018 6:14 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I also vote FOR proposals 8053-8057.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > -twg
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On June 23, 2018 8:41 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I vote FOR each listed proposal
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Aris Merchant
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > I vote as follows:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > ID Author(s) AI Title Pender
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 8053* G., Aris 1.0 patch patch patch G. [1]
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 8054+ Aris, [2] 3.0 Minimalist Contracts v2 Aris
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 8055+ Aris, G. 3.0 Distributed Assets v3 Aris
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 8056+ Aris, G. 3.0 Deregulation Act v2 Aris
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 8057* Corona 1.0 No quorum, no medal Corona [1]
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > FOR
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > -Aris
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: hmmm?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Ah, yes, it was directly from you, not via Discussion. Sorry, I didn't notice 
the contents of the "From" field (or the "To" field in the reply).

Interestingly, I have received "DIS: Regarding CFJ 3642" and "DIS: Re: BUS: 
[Distributor] about agora-official" from you via Discussion, but not "Re: DIS: 
Re: BUS: Judgement in CFJ 3646" which I can see you sent from V.J. Rada's reply.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 24, 2018 9:08 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Did you receive it directly from me or via discussion?
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> 
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:06 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > Yes! What did you change?
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 24, 2018 8:58 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
> > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Did you receive this?
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:55 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I haven't, no. Very bizarre. I have been receiving email from other 
> > > > Gmail users like ATMunn and Corona, so I'm not sure what the problem 
> > > > might be.
> > > > 
> > > > If it helps narrow anything down, the last email I received from you 
> > > > was on June 22, 2018 10:16 PM UTC, saying you liked Corona's suggestion 
> > > > of a hyperbolic map.
> > > > 
> > > > -twg
> > > > 
> > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > 
> > > > On June 24, 2018 6:08 PM, ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > twg
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 6/24/2018 12:55 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > This could be one of the infamous problems with gmail. Have you
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > received this message?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I haven't received it, and I also haven't received any of PSS's 
> > > > > > > messages to DIS that you're all replying to.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -twg
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On June 24, 2018 4:20 PM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com 
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Neither have I.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Publius Scribonius 
> > > > > > > > Scholasticus <
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I have not received it.
> > > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, ATMunn 
> > > > > > > > > iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Nope, it was much later than that.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On 6/24/2018 10:11 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > This?
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > -- Forwarded message --
> &g

Re: DIS: hmmm?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Yes, it was sent to PSS directly - I didn't notice that the message e sent me 
saying "Did you receive this?" was actually sent directly to me as well as to 
DIS, and clicked Reply without checking where I was sending it to.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 25, 2018 7:49 AM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I didn't receive the email sent by twg which you're replying to in this
> 
> message. Was this sent to you directly or was it sent to a list?
> 
> On Sunday, June 24, 2018, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> 
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Did you receive it directly from me or via discussion?
> > --
> > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:06 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > 
> > > Yes! What did you change?
> > > 
> > > -twg
> > > 
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > 
> > > On June 24, 2018 8:58 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> > > 
> > > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Did you receive this?
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:55 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I haven't, no. Very bizarre. I have been receiving email from other
> > > > > 
> > > > > Gmail users like ATMunn and Corona, so I'm not sure what the problem 
> > > > > might
> > > > > 
> > > > > be.
> > > 
> > > > > If it helps narrow anything down, the last email I received from you
> > > > > 
> > > > > was on June 22, 2018 10:16 PM UTC, saying you liked Corona's 
> > > > > suggestion of
> > > > > 
> > > > > a hyperbolic map.
> > > 
> > > > > -twg
> > > > > 
> > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > > 
> > > > > On June 24, 2018 6:08 PM, ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > twg
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On 6/24/2018 12:55 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > This could be one of the infamous problems with gmail. Have you
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > received this message?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > > I haven't received it, and I also haven't received any of PSS's
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > messages to DIS that you're all replying to.
> > > 
> > > > > > > > -twg
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On June 24, 2018 4:20 PM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > Neither have I.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Publius Scribonius
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Scholasticus <
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > I have not received it.
> > > > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, ATMunn
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Nope, it was much later than that.
> > > > > &

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Contract Competition: It's a subgame boiz!!!!!!

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I received both of these as well.

Comparing my inbox to mail-archive.com, it seems I've been receiving all your 
emails _except_ those sent on June 24 (UTC) to DIS or BUS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 25, 2018 9:41 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> ​​
> 
> TTttPF
> 
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 5:40 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> 
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > I withdraw my previous bid and instead bid 2 coins.
> > 
> > On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 3:55 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > 
> > > Fabulous, thank you! I bid 20 coins in the ongoing zombie auction.
> > > 
> > > -twg
> > > 
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > 
> > > On June 25, 2018 12:45 AM, Rebecca edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > The only other party to this Contract is twg. I transfer em 20 coins.
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Right this is my one attempt to revitalize the institution of 
> > > > > Contracts.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I create the following Contract (spending a coin)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Title: Contract Competition Contract
> > > > > 
> > > > > Text:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anyone may become a Party to this Contract by announcement.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Parties to this Contract SHOULD join, create and interact with a
> > > > > 
> > > > > variety of Contracts over the next 10 days.
> > > > > 
> > > > > V.J. Rada SHALL judge in a timely fashion after the next 10 days which
> > > > > 
> > > > > other party to this contract gave the best contribution to the world
> > > > > 
> > > > > of Contracts recently.
> > > > > 
> > > > > V.J. Rada SHALL give that party 20 coins in the same message as that 
> > > > > judgement.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If nobody does anything interesting, parties to this Contract and
> > > > > 
> > > > > non-parties SHOULD vote to repeal Contracts ASAP.
> > > > > 
> > > > > From V.J. Rada
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > > From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Treasuror] Facilities starting to proliferate again

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I actually noticed that some of the zombies were misclassified about 30 seconds 
after I sent that off. Oh well.

I don't believe that aspect of this report can self-ratify, so I'm just going 
to ignore it for now, but I'll fix it for next week (or if someone points out a 
different error).

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 25, 2018 8:37 AM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I haven't checked for mistakes yet, but looks good!
> 
> Also note that I divided the players into two sections (separated by the
> 
> row of column names) -- nonzombies and zombies. I thought that would make
> 
> the table of players less cluttered. If you're going to keep that layout,
> 
> you might want to regularly check if any player's zombification status has
> 
> changed.
> 
> On Monday, June 25, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I modified the layout slightly to make it easier for me to tell each
> > 
> > facility's rank when creating assets. Unfortunately this comes with a
> > 
> > slight readability cost, but the abbreviations for nicknames are the same
> > 
> > as on the Cartographor report so I don't think it's too hard to interpret.
> > 
> > Is it fine for the rest of you?
> > 
> > +-++++---+++++++
> > 
> > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > 
> > +-++++---+++++++
> > 
> > |ATMunn | 6| 32| 1| 0| 7| 0| 64| 14| 0| 12|
> > 
> > |Aris | 5| 30| 9| 0| 5| 0| 97| 7| 0| 11|
> > 
> > |Corona | 28| 76| 28| 0| 8| 30| 37| 29| 0| 13|
> > 
> > |CuddleBeam | 11| 18| 9| 4| 8| 9| 50| 10| 0| 11|
> > 
> > |G. | 15| 79| 15| 0| 3| 0| 83| 52| 0| 33|
> > 
> > |Gaelan | 14| 28| 2| 6| 2| 0| 47| 10| 0| 11|
> > 
> > |Kenyon | 14| 37| 4| 6| 20| 3| 45| 9| 0| 11|
> > 
> > |Murphy | 5| 30| 4| 0| 8| 0| 56| 11| 0| 11|
> > 
> > |omd | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |Ouri | 0| 10| 0| 0| 0| 0| 24| 4| 0| 11|
> > 
> > |PSS | 5| 15| 0| 0| 5| 0| 20| 5| 0| 3|
> > 
> > |Trigon | 6| 11| 15| 4| 2| 15| 30| 7| 0| 11|
> > 
> > |twg | 3| 8| 0| 2| 5| 0| 34| 5| 0| 3|
> > 
> > |VJ Rada | 10| 55| 2| 0| 10| 0| 58| 17| 0| 11|
> > 
> > +-++++---+++++++
> > 
> > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > 
> > +-++++---+++++++
> > 
> > |nichdel | 0| 5| 0| 0| 0| 0| 10| 2| 0| 3|
> > 
> > |o | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |pokes | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |Quazie | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |Telnaior | 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |天火狐 | 0| 5| 0| 0| 0| 0| 10| 2| 0| 3|
> > 
> > +-++++---+++++++
> > 
> > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > 
> > +-++++---+++++++
> > 
> > | R1 farm (+1, -1)| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > | R1 mine (-1, -1)| 6| 0| 0| 4| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > | R1 mine (+1, +1)| 6| 0| 0| 4| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > | R1 orch. (-1, +1)| 0| 6| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |C's R2 ref. ( 0, +2)| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 259| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |C's R2 mine (+2, +2)| 18| 0| 0| 12| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |C's R2 orch. (+2, +1)| 0| 12| 0| 0| 12| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |C's R2 mine (+2, -1)| 18| 0| 0| 8| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |C's R2 orch. (+2, -2)| 0| 12| 0| 0| 12| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |C's R2 farm (+1, -2)| 0| 0| 12| 0| 0| 12| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |u's R1 farm (+1, 3)| 0| 0| 21| 0| 0| 21| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |T's R1 mine ( 0, -2)| 6| 0| 0| 4| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |t's R1 orch. (+5, 0)| 0| 6| 0| 0| 6| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |G's R1 mine (+3, -2)| 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |G's R1 mine (+4, -1)| 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |G's R1 orch. (+4, 0)| 0| 3| 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |G's R1 mine (+3, 0)| 3| 0| 0| 2| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > |G's R1 orch. (+2, 0)| 0| 3| 0| 0| 3| 0| 0| 0| 0| 0|
> > 
> > +-++++---+++++++
> > 
> > |Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
&g

Re: DIS: Proto: MALF

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Can I ask why the land auction was split into five originally? Unless I'm 
misunderstanding something, having it as one auction with five lots ensures 
that each lot goes to a different person, which makes it impossible for one 
person to monopolise land as Corona seems to be planning to do imminently.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 29, 2018 3:51 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> 
> > This. This is exactly what I was about to respond with.
> > 
> > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 09:47 Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > What's not working?
> > > 
> > > 1.  land transfiguration (kind of the reason land types exist in the first
> > > 
> > > place) is useless
> > > 
> > > 2.  I think I can make a terribly overpowered lv. 5 refinery (13 coins/1
> > > 
> > > ore) next week, meaning I'll have so many coins that nobody else will 
> > > be
> > > 
> > > able to win any more land, ever.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ~Corona
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > So I've been planning land purchases, upgrades, and production flow for
> > > > 
> > > > the next month, it's been fun to do. It's a nice little resource
> > > > 
> > > > management/placement game right now.
> > > > 
> > > > But each/every proposal like this throws such planning out the window.
> > > > 
> > > > If something like this goes through atm, I'm probably going to check out
> > > > 
> > > > of the land game and not bother to plan or play again.
> > > > 
> > > > At what point do we not change things for a bit and just play? What
> > > > 
> > > > isn't working with the present system? Sometimes you should play the
> > > > 
> > > > basic game a few times before adding expansion sets...
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Well, since ranks would no longer exist, why would we need anything
> > > > > 
> > > > > but a
> > > > 
> > > > > flat rate?
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 09:28 Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > It did, it's just that nobody discussed it, I guess. Why did you
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > change the
> > > > > 
> > > > > > upkeep of the processing facilities to 5 coins flat in the second
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > email?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Reuben Staley <
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > > > > 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I think this email didn't get sent to you guys, so I'm just going
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > to
> > > > 
> > > > > > > forward it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -- Forwarded message -
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > From: Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Date: Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 16:50
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Subject: DIS: Proto: MALF
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To: Agora Discussion agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Name: More Advanced Land Features
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > AI: TBD
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Author: Trigon
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Co-authors:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [ PART I: CLEAN-UP ]
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [ PART I, SECTION I: GLATF ]
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [ There are no technical problems with the rules introduced by 
> > > > > > > Gray
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Land
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > and the Fountain, but these could be added to already existing
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > rules
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > to reduce clutter. Currently, there are six rules that contain
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > one or two paragraphs. I think this is inefficient, so I'm
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > repealing
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > all these rules and sticking them onto more relevant ones. ]
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Repeal Rule 2568 "Facility Colors".
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Amend Rule 2567 "Facility Categories" by replacing its text with:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Each facility can be either a Production, Processing,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Monument, or
> > > > > 
> > > > > > >Miscellaneous Facility. This is to be set by the rule that
> > > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > defines
> > > > 
> > > > > > >that facility type.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >A facility has a number of Allowed Land Types not equal to
> > > > > > > 
> > > 
> > > 0.  
> > > 
> > > > This
> > > > 
> > > > > > >is to be set by the rule that defines the facility type. If
> > > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > it is
> > > > 
> > > > > > >not set by that rule, the facility type's Allowed Land 
> > > > > > > Types
> > > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > are
> > > > 
> > > > > > >Black and White.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >

DIS: Re: BUS: Zombie ribbons - I wonder if this works?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Side note: This message (from G.) is the only one I've received in this thread. 
I didn't receive Aris's, or copies of my own, although I can see them at 
mail-archive.com.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 29, 2018 4:31 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I object.
> 
> (Not that I disagree with the arguments, but that's a loophole that
> 
> shouldn't be supported. We should definitely add "call a CFJ" to the
> 
> list of things you can't have your zombie do).
> 
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> 
> > If it is possible, I act on behalf of Kenyon to publicly acknowledge that 
> > today is Agora's Birthday.
> > 
> > I act on behalf of Kenyon to initiate a CFJ: "At the time this CFJ was 
> > initiated, Kenyon qualified for a Magenta Ribbon."
> > 
> > I think it's common sense that "publicly acknowledging" something means 
> > stating it in a public message, which it's not possible to do on behalf of 
> > someone else, so this should be FALSE. But on the other hand, the action of 
> > "publicly acknowledging" something doesn't appear to be defined or 
> > referenced anywhere else in the rules, and past assumption seems to have 
> > been that any action can be taken on behalf of a zombie unless it's 
> > specifically prohibited, so I can see an argument for TRUE as well. Anyone 
> > else have opinions?
> > 
> > I favour the CFJ initiated earlier in this message and intend, without 3 
> > objections, to assign it to myself. If the aforementioned CFJ is assigned 
> > to me, I intend to judge it FALSE, based on my own arguments for FALSE.
> > 
> > -twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Zombie ribbons - I wonder if this works?

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Ah, it turns out this is because my email provider is being targeted by a 
denial-of-service attack at the moment. No problem on Agora's end this time. 
Frankly I'm quite impressed they're still managing to get my own messages to 
you.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 29, 2018 4:54 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Side note: This message (from G.) is the only one I've received in this 
> thread. I didn't receive Aris's, or copies of my own, although I can see them 
> at mail-archive.com.
> 
> -twg
> 
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> 
> On June 29, 2018 4:31 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
> 
> > I object.
> > 
> > (Not that I disagree with the arguments, but that's a loophole that
> > 
> > shouldn't be supported. We should definitely add "call a CFJ" to the
> > 
> > list of things you can't have your zombie do).
> > 
> > On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> > 
> > > If it is possible, I act on behalf of Kenyon to publicly acknowledge that 
> > > today is Agora's Birthday.
> > > 
> > > I act on behalf of Kenyon to initiate a CFJ: "At the time this CFJ was 
> > > initiated, Kenyon qualified for a Magenta Ribbon."
> > > 
> > > I think it's common sense that "publicly acknowledging" something means 
> > > stating it in a public message, which it's not possible to do on behalf 
> > > of someone else, so this should be FALSE. But on the other hand, the 
> > > action of "publicly acknowledging" something doesn't appear to be defined 
> > > or referenced anywhere else in the rules, and past assumption seems to 
> > > have been that any action can be taken on behalf of a zombie unless it's 
> > > specifically prohibited, so I can see an argument for TRUE as well. 
> > > Anyone else have opinions?
> > > 
> > > I favour the CFJ initiated earlier in this message and intend, without 3 
> > > objections, to assign it to myself. If the aforementioned CFJ is assigned 
> > > to me, I intend to judge it FALSE, based on my own arguments for FALSE.
> > > 
> > > -twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fantasy Rules Contract Proto

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

It's not really my kind of thing but I'll certainly join in if it happens. I 
can't see any loopholes.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 29, 2018 5:15 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> So there were no comments on this is there interest? I have a few
> 
> minor edits but otherwise it can be started - but depends on whether
> 
> people want to play it.
> 
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> 
> > [
> > 
> > Ok, running out of time. This is a quick job. Please look and
> > 
> > consider!
> > 
> > reference: 
> > https://sites.google.com/site/fantasyrulescommittee/regular-ordinances-of-the-frc
> > 
> > ]
> > 
> > FANTASY RULES CONTRACT PROTO.
> > 
> > 0.  G. is the only member of this contract. G. CANNOT win the Contest
> > 
> > or become a Contestant. G. is the Judge (gamemaster) of this game.
> > 
> > 1.  The CONTEST begins June 30, 2018, 00:00:00 GMT +1200.
> > 
> > 2.  For 48 hours after the contest begins, any person can enter the
> > 
> > contest (becoming a Contestant) by publishing a body of text
> > 
> > clearly intended to be a Fantasy Rule, on behalf of themselves
> > 
> > (no zombies or other act-on-behalf play). Entering the contest
> > 
> > is NOT becoming a party to this contract. When a contestant is
> > 
> > eliminated (ceases being a contestant), e cannot re-enter.
> > 
> > 3.  After 48 hours have passed since the contest began, no new
> > 
> > Contestants can join.
> > 
> > 4.  Only Contestants can publish valid fantasy rules.
> > 
> > 5.  For a fantasy rule to be valid, it must be consistent with all
> > 
> > previous valid fantasy Rules.
> > 
> > 6.  When a contestant publishes an invalid fantasy rule, e receives
> > 
> > a Strike. When e received 3 strikes, e is eliminated.
> > 
> > 7.  For a fantasy rule to be valid, it must be possible for any
> > 
> > remaining contestant to publish a valid rule following it.
> > 
> > A contestant can publicly challenge that a particular rule
> > 
> > makes it impossible to continue. In that case, the publisher
> > 
> > of that rule has 24 hours to send the judge (privately or
> > 
> > publicly) a proposed valid rule that would work. If e does
> > 
> > so, the challenger receives a strike, otherwise the rule is
> > 
> > invalid.
> > 
> > 8.  After the first 72 hours, the elimination period begins. During
> > 
> > this period, a contestant is eliminated if 24 hours have passed
> > 
> > since e last published a valid rule AND 12 hours have passed
> > 
> > since any contestant last published a valid rule.
> > 
> > 9.  The judge shall declare whether each fantasy rule is valid or
> > 
> > invalid, and will award between -3 and +3 Style Points to each
> > 
> > valid rule, by announcement, based on the quality of the rule
> > 
> > with respect to the theme.
> > 
> > 10.  The judge's final opinions are binding, although contestants
> > 
> > may publicly or privately appeal (to the judge) any judicial
> > 
> > ruling they feel was made in error, and the judge may revise
> > 
> > eir judgement at any time.
> > 
> > 11.  When all contestants have been eliminated from the contest, the
> > 
> > winners are (1) the last contestant eliminated and (2) the
> > 
> > person with the most style points after all contestants have
> > 
> > been eliminated.
> > 
> > 12.  The judge is the final arbitor of matters of this contract, and
> > 
> > eir decisions can only be overturned if a CFJ finds eir decisions
> > 
> > were made with arbitrary or capricious disregard for the terms of
> > 
> > this contract. The judge shall adjudicate this contract in equitable
> > 
> > terms, with emphasis placed on the intent of the clauses.
> > 
> > 13.  The judge CAN terminate this contract with Notice after August 1,
> > 
> > 14.  
> > 15.  The theme of the Contest is "OYEZ, OYEZ! THE DISPUTE BEFORE US
> > 
> > TODAY IS WHETHER FRC OR AGORA IS THE TRUE INHERITOR OF NOMIC WORLD".
> >

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposals] Feasible Victory & Better Auctions

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

It's weird, I can't imagine how I would pronounce "SHA". I suspect the cause is 
just that I've only ever seen it written down and never actually spoken about 
it, so I've never _needed_ to pronounce it, but it's actually quite disturbing 
not being able to sound it in my head like with other words.

More on-topic, if we're using hashes for the announcer's bid, why not just go 
the whole way and make _everyone_ submit hashes of their bids, to be revealed 
after the auction ends? That way, there's no need to place any trust in the 
announcer at all.

I do have my own reservations about using hashes at all, though, because this 
particular context seems easier than many hashes to brute-force. There are only 
a limited number of possible bids, and although you can obfuscate it a bit by 
using different typographical conventions ("21", "21 coins", "21 Coins", "21 
instances of Agora's official currency"), that seems easy for someone not 
terribly familiar with computers/IT to mess up and accidentally reveal their 
bid.

Apologies for the delay on the Treasuror report, by the way; it's taking a 
while to sift through last month's reports to see who's due how many salaries, 
because several offices were created or abolished and agora-official was 
unavailable for part of the time. Hoping to have it up tomorrow (Wednesday).

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 3, 2018 10:58 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Obviously, it is ess-aych-ay-five-twelve.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 08:11 ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > On 7/1/2018 8:04 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Rebecca wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Also
> > > > 
> > > > add in a new paragraph "Rules and Contracts notwithstanding, no
> > > > 
> > > > Announcer may ever bid on an Auction they are Announcing".
> > > 
> > > This is a massive disadvantage: It's unfair to ask an officer to
> > > 
> > > completely stay out of a subgame, especially because people choose
> > > 
> > > offices based on subgames they're interested in.
> > > 
> > > My suggestion would be something like: In the auction-starting
> > > 
> > > announcement, the announcer CAN include an SHA-512 hash of eir
> > > 
> > > bid. Such a bid cannot be changed and MUST be reported with the
> > > 
> > > auction results.
> > > 
> > > Wait, an SHA-512 hash? Meaning you pronounce each letter instead of
> > > 
> > > just saying "sha five twelve"?
> > 
> > Anyways, acronym pronunciations aside, I agree with everything you said
> > 
> > here.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I actually think it would be more frustrating to carry out the reforms 
_without_ a reset, because the reforms might ruin plans people had been forming 
or make their previous facility setup suboptimal. Someone (I think it was G.?) 
said a few days ago that e'd stop playing if the reforms passed. At least 
resetting the economy would ensure everybody started from an even footing.

What exactly would need to be in a reset? Things I can think of off the top of 
my head:
* Destroy all instances of currencies except blots and medals of honour
* Destroy all facilities not owned by Agora
* Set all unpreserved land units to aether
* Move all players (and Q*Bert?) to (0, 0)
* Cause all active players to receive a welcome package

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 5, 2018 4:33 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Reply-to is the worst.
> 
> On 07/05/2018 10:33 AM, Reuben Staley wrote:
> 
> > As in resetting the map and giving everyone a welcome-package-sized
> > 
> > amount of resources and making a little spawn island? It might work,
> > 
> > considering that that reform plan was supposed to fix balancing issues.
> > 
> > But also I think that would just make even more people burned out on
> > 
> > this subgame.
> > 
> > On 07/05/2018 10:20 AM, Corona wrote:
> > 
> > > What about just resetting the economy (to the same state as when it was
> > > 
> > > enacted) while implementing Trigon's planned reforms?
> > > 
> > > ~Corona
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > And  yeah, not to do with paper, but on the Coins side I'm done
> > > > 
> > > > here.
> > > > 
> > > > I'll support a full repeal of this mess.  Restraint is not something
> > > > 
> > > > that
> > > > 
> > > > everyone does well.
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Corona wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I bid 32 coins in auction 1.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I bid 34 coins in auction 5.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I bid 32 coins in auction 5.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I bid 25 coins in auction 5.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > units in
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > > existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my choice 
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > put
> > > > > 
> > > > > > up for
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > auction.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > auctioneer, and
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-6, -1)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +1)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -2)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-6, +2)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > AUCTION 5: the land unit at (+6, -1)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Trigon
> 
> --
> 
> Trigon

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Prime Minister] there's no confidence in the economy, so...

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I realise I'm a relatively new player and don't have much of an informed 
opinion on anything, but to throw in my tuppenceworth, I like the idea of G.'s 
suggestions below. Uncoupling PAoaM from other parts of the game (paper and 
incense) means people who don't like it can ignore it and work towards 
different win conditions, and introducing a win condition specifically for 
PAoaM creates a "lightning rod" like Corona described, to prevent one person 
dominating.

I would also include refineries in the list of things to remove. I think there 
are good uses for an official Agoran currency, but having it producible through 
this one subgame seems wildly unbalanced. It feels like coins existed 
beforehand as a core game mechanic and were inexpertly grandfathered into 
PAoaM. (I admit I can't be bothered to look through the archives to check 
whether that's the case.)

I would prefer to keep reforming/tweaking instead of repealing PAoaM, because 
the resource management aspect is genuinely fun in itself despite the 
implementation issues, but even if we agree to repeal it altogether, the 
current proposal goes too far. Like V.J. Rada said, zombies, auctions and coins 
don't seem to be causing many problems in themselves (at least now that zombies 
have been nerfed).

Since you ask, I'm not currently experiencing Treasuror burnout, but I've only 
been doing it for two weeks so that doesn't mean a great deal for its long-term 
viability.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 6, 2018 8:08 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Not to interfere with electioneering or anything, but I'll throw out an
> 
> outline "what might work" but I'm genuinely split on whether to scrap it
> 
> all or reform as follows:
> 
> -   Get rid of paper and incense (as already proposed) and their
> 
> corresponding facilities.
> 
> -   The only link between "land/economy" and "rest of the game" is thus
> 
> zombie votes or other zombie uses.
> 
> -   Replace with a 3 new refined commodity path to a win condition (for the
> 
> skin, crystals as already proposed, or we go Age of Empires with
> 
> Monuments).
> 
> -   Calling the three commodities Red, Blue, and Green for the moment, if
> 
> they are produced at the same rate as coins in refineries, the right
> 
> level (to me) feels ~2500 of each -> Monument -> win.
> 
> -   Some land distribution for everyone who participates, not just auction
> 
> winners (as already proposed).
> 
> I think that could work theoretically (can't remember how similar these
> 
> ideas are to crystals or Trigon's draft reforms). The reason I'm on the
> 
> fence is that, if there's a full reset, I'm just feeling too burned out
> 
> ATM to take the months to build from scratch again, and if there's not a
> 
> full reset I recognize others might not bother to jump in. I think the
> 
> deciding factor for would be officer enthusiasm - if Trigon and twg are
> 
> burned out (Trigon seems to be), and no other reasonably-experienced
> 
> officer steps forward ahead of time, time to forget it -- no matter what
> 
> reforms we make, this complex system lives and dies by absolutely-timely
> 
> and enthusiastic reports/duties.
> 
> On Fri, 6 Jul 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> 
> 
> > I will note that I'm trying to get a consensus for some solution to our
> > 
> > present problems. [1] I've made clear my thoughts on what I think that
> > 
> > solution should be, regarding one particular issue, but I'll respect the
> > 
> > consensus process. No one else has commented though. So please, come
> > 
> > comment and tell us what kind of solution you want. I'm really not sure
> > 
> > what solutions are popular and rightly guided at the moment, so it's hard
> > 
> > to know what I should support. At least I'm trying to figure out what
> > 
> > Agorans want.
> > 
> > Also, my apologies for calling our problems a crisis. That was perhaps
> > 
> > somewhat hyperbolic. I do think we have serious problems though, because
> > 
> > several players have commented that they're not enjoying a major part of
> > 
> > gameplay. I want to solve that problem. I want players to enjoy playing the
> > 
> > game. If elected, I will try to figure out what the players want, and use
> > 
> > my power as Prime Minister to ensure that their will is carried out.
> > 
> > My honorable competitor has not demonstrated initiative in solving our
> > 
> > present problems. I thought of some solutions. People rather seem to
> > 
> > dislike at least the idea of repealing the whole economy, and are very
> > 
> > split on my other solution. My response to this has been twofold. First, I
> > 
> > have continued to push hard for the least destructive part of my solution.
> > 
> > Votes are very closely split on the matter, so it's hard to say that the
> > 
> > policy is actually unpopular. Se

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

It's rule 1006, "Offices", that says Officeholder is a switch, and it's rule 
2162, "Switches", that (indirectly) says it's not. Rule 1030, "Precedence 
between Rules", gives a handy algorithm for resolving contradictions between 
rules:
- Compare their powers (Not useful, they're both power 2.0)
- Do they both defer to a different rule for determining precedence? (No, not 
as far as I can see)
- Does one rule state that it defers to the other? (No)
- Compare their ID numbers (So rule 1006 takes precedence over rule 2162.)

Since the "Offices" rule takes precedence, Officeholder is a switch, regardless 
of what the "Switches" rule has to say about it. At least I think that's how it 
works. Someone should probably check my logic.

(Of course, we should probably remove the contradiction - and probably increase 
the power of 2162 because this seems like a prolific source of loopholes - but 
I don't believe there's anything to immediately panic about.)

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 8, 2018 9:45 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Erk.
> 
> If the July 1 ADoP Report self-ratified, then ratification beats the
> 
> Distributor rule in ratifying the Distributor officeholder at its default
> 
> value.
> 
> EXCEPT. Double-erk. R1006 doesn't explicitly define a default value for
> 
> Officeholder switches. Either we indirectly infer "vacant" as the
> 
> default (questionable), or Officeholder isn't a Switch at all, because by
> 
> R2162(2), a switch must designate a default value in order to be a switch.
> 
> Dunno if I'm missing something basic ... but if Officeholder isn't
> 
> actually a switch ---ok Aris, now that's the sort of thing you can call
> 
> a crisis.
> 
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> 
> > CoE: The Distributor is an office.
> > 
> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 5:26 PM Edward Murphy emurph...@zoho.com wrote:
> > 
> > > =Metareport=
> > > 
> > > You can find an up-to-date version of this report at
> > > 
> > > http://zenith.homelinux.net/adop/report.php
> > > 
> > > Date of last report: 2018-07-02
> > > 
> > > Date of this report: 2018-07-08
> > > 
> > > MISCELLANEOUS INFO
> > > 
> > > Filled offices: 10/13 (76.92%)
> > > 
> > > Total officers: 7
> > > 
> > > Consolidation[1]: 1.43
> > > 
> > > Late reports: 3/10 (30.00%)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > [1] This is the number of filled offices divided by the number of
> > > 
> > > officers. At 1, this means that all offices are filled by different
> > > 
> > > players; if it reached the number of filled offices, that would mean
> > > 
> > > that all offices are filled by one player.
> > > 
> > > OFFICES
> > > 
> > > Office Holder[1] Since Last Election
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ADoP Murphy 2018-01-18 2018-01-18
> > > 
> > > Arbitor Murphy 2018-01-28 2018-01-28
> > > 
> > > Assessor G. 2018-02-06 2018-02-27
> > > 
> > > Cartographor Trigon 2018-02-24 (never)
> > > 
> > > Herald *G. 2018-06-25 (ongoing)
> > > 
> > > Prime Minister *(vacant) 2018-07-05[2] (ongoing)
> > > 
> > > Promotor Aris 2016-10-21 2017-09-21
> > > 
> > > Referee VJ Rada 2018-07-02 2018-07-02
> > > 
> > > Registrar *(vacant) 2018-07-01[2] (ongoing)
> > > 
> > > Rulekeepor *(vacant) 2018-07-01[2] 2018-07-08
> > > 
> > > Speaker G. 2018-07-02 2014-04-21
> > > 
> > > Tailor ATMunn 2018-05-09 2018-05-09
> > > 
> > > Treasuror twg 2018-06-24 2018-06-24
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -
> > > 
> > > [1] * = Interim office (vacant or holder not elected)
> > > 
> > > [2] Vacant since this date
> > > 
> > > [3] Currently imposed
> > > 
> > > WEEKLY REPORTS
> > > 
> > > Office Report Last Published Late[1]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ADoP Offices 2018-07-02[2]
> > > 
> > > Arbitor Judicial matters 2018-07-08
> > > 
> > > Cartographor Land of Arcadia 2018-07-02
> > > 
> > > Herald Matters of Honour 2018-07-05
> > > 
> > > Promotor Proposal pool 2018-07-05
> > > 
> > > Referee Rule violations 2018-06-24 !
> > > 
> > > Registrar Players, Fora 2018-06-24 (vacant)
> > > 
> > > Rulekeepor Short Logical Ruleset 2018-06-12 (vacant)
> > > 
> > > Treasuror Coins, other currencies 2018-07-04
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Weekly Report

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Something something black kettle...

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 9, 2018 7:45 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Note there were some land bids placed at the end of this report.
> 
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> 
> > Herald’s Weekly report
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > 
> > ==
> > 
> > END OF HERALD'S WEEKLY REPORT
> > 
> > I bid 66 Coins in the auction for the land unit at (-6, +1)
> > 
> > I bid 66 Coins in the auction for the land unit at (-6, +2)
> > 
> > I bid 66 Coins in the auction for the land unit at (+6, -1)

DIS: Re: BUS: back to basics - this time with zombies

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I like this system. More incentive to create proposals can't be a bad thing. As 
regards fixing the rejection penalty to always be positive, I feel like it 
would be more elegant to take adoption index directly into account instead of 
just specifying a minimum penalty. Something like (AGAINST * AI - FOR), rounded 
down to the next smallest integer?

I am a little disappointed that you're making Points totally replace Economics 
and the rest of PAoaM - not because I'm utterly against a full repeal in 
itself, but because I've been spending the last few days working on a series of 
proposals to tweak it and the effort will be wasted if this passes. Oh well. I 
may just submit and pend some of them anyway, since Aris' Free Proposals seems 
likely to pass.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 9, 2018 2:33 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Proto-proposal for a simple game to replace land (perhaps temporarily)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Oldschool Ordinals (Points!) with Zombies (OOPZ) v0.1
> 
> (or, an "economy" in 2 rules).
> 
> // Comment lines are marked like this.
> 
> // Points come and go - they've been gone for quite a while this
> 
> // time around. Seems like a nice place to go (if land is to be
> 
> // replaced, better to repeal and start fresh and do something simple
> 
> // in the mean time so there's no time pressure for drafting).
> 
> // The object of the game
> 
> Amend Rule 2483 (Economics) to read in full:
> 
> Points are the defined, official currency of Agora. Points can
> 
> only be owned by Players and Agora. Points are tracked by the
> 
> Treasuror.
> 
> A player CAN win the game for a fee of 1,000 points.
> 
> // The buy-in
> 
> For each player, a number of Points are created in eir possession equal
> 
> to either (A) the number of coins e had immediately before this proposal
> 
> took effect, or (B) 1,200, whichever is less.
> 
> // The buy-in retroactively provides an finite endpoint for the current
> 
> // PAotM: get all the coins you can (up to 1,200). Will someone start
> 
> // this game with enough points to win and get partway to the next win?
> 
> // Quite likely. But that's a deserved buyout for playing PAotM.
> 
> // The method
> 
> // Back to basics: Proposal = points. Since proposals are free to
> 
> // propose, that's your seed income - encourages proposal-based
> 
> // participation and no minimum income needed.
> 
> Create the following Rule, Earning Points, AI-1.5:
> 
> For a player 'earn' a point is for it to be created in eir
> 
> possession. For a player to 'lose' a point is for it to be
> 
> destroyed (if e has one). Earning and losing points is secured.
> 
> When a decision to adopt a proposal is resolved:
> 
> - If the outcome was ADOPTED, its author earns a number of points
> 
> equal to (the total strength of all valid ballots cast FOR the
> 
> decision - the total strength of all valid ballots cast AGAINST)
> 
> times the adoption index of the decision (final result rounded
> 
> up).
> 
> - If the outcome was REJECTED, its author loses a number of points
> 
> equal to (the total strength of all valid ballots cast AGAINST
> 
> the decision - the total strength of all valid ballots cast FOR).
> 
> - If the outcome was FAILED QUORUM, every active player who didn't
> 
> cast a ballot loses 1 point.
> 
> At the start of each month, for each office, if a single player
> 
> held that office for 16 or more days in the previous month and no
> 
> unforgivable fines were levied on em for eir conduct in that
> 
> office during that time, that player earns 10 points.
> 
> When a player registers who has not been a player at any time in
> 
> the past 30 days, e earns 25 points.
> 
> When a zombie becomes active, e earns 25 points.
> 
> // Keep Zombies because individual votes are now worth something
> 
> // (can generate small amounts of points with their vote).
> 
> // TODO
> 
> // Repeal Land. But this is COMPLETELY compatible with land - someone
> 
> // can re-enact Land wholesale when a draft is written and points won't
> 
> // get in the way.
> 
> // TODO
> 
> // Make sure Pending is free, and blots are expungable by time.
> 
> 
> 

Re: DIS: Poll: Agoran MU*

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

1) Yes, it sounds interesting in principle. Then again, I said that about the 
birthday tournament as well, and didn't feel like playing in the event.
2) Yes, but I can't promise to devote a great deal of time to it. Also, I don't 
have much experience with Python.
3) Yes.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 10, 2018 4:42 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I'm in the very early stages of looking into creating a new MU* for
> 
> Agora. The codebase would be hosted on the Agora GitHub org, and any
> 
> player would be free to contribute code. My skills in this area are...
> 
> well, not particularly astonishing, so I'd certainly appreciate help
> 
> with code. The MU* would be written in Python, since that is one of
> 
> the most common languages and especially easy to learn. I am also not
> 
> in a great position to host the MU*, if this gets that far, so any
> 
> volunteers for that would also be much appreciated.
> 
> I would like comments on what level of participation players would be
> 
> interested in giving. Please give a list of these options:
> 
> 1 - interested in playing
> 
> 2 - interested in coding and/or building
> 
> 3 - interested in hosting the server (note that this might involve
> 
> giving shell access to at least some other players, depending on how
> 
> we set it up)
> 
> I'd also like to hear people's level of interest, brainstorming of
> 
> features, or any other remarks.
> 
> -Aris

DIS: Re: BUS: still gonna try

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Fails; you need to transfer the fabric from the loom to yourself first.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 10, 2018 6:52 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I transfer all the fabric I have to G..
> 
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 15:37 Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Okay, fine.
> > 
> > I take all the assets from where I'm standing.
> > 
> > I destroy 2 apples and move to (0, -3) then to (+1, -3).
> > 
> > I destroy 8 lumber and 4 stones to build a loom on the land unit I'm
> > 
> > standing on.
> > 
> > I transfer all my cotton to that loom.
> > 
> > On 07/05/2018 03:20 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > > I take all the liquid assets from the facility at (4, -1).
> > > 
> > > I destroy 1 apple to move to (4, 0).
> > > 
> > > I take all the liquid assets from the facility at (4, 0).
> > > 
> > > I destroy 1 apple to move to (3, 0).
> > > 
> > > I take all the liquid assets from the facility at (3, 0).
> > > 
> > > I CoE on the most recent Mapkeepor's Report - (3, 0) is a mine, not an
> > > 
> > > orchard.
> > > 
> > > I pay 4 coins and 4 lumber to upgrade the (3,0) mine to Rank 3.
> > > 
> > > I destroy 1 apple to move to (2, 0).
> > > 
> > > I take all the liquid assets from the facility at (2, 0).
> > > 
> > > I pay 3 coins and 2 stones to upgrade the (2, 0) orchard to rank 2.
> > > 
> > > I pay 4 coins and 4 stones to upgrade the (2, 0) orchard to rank 3.
> > > 
> > > I transfer 6 lumber to Trigon.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Trigon

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [FRC] Agoran Values

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

"the isqueal purpose of Nomic play".

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 13, 2018 9:53 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I'm sorry, this is probably there, but I can't find it. Where is the spelling?
> 
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 3:00 AM Aris Merchant
> 
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Your Honor, I respectfully submit the following argument on Docket #2:
> > 
> > A model longstanding Nomic is the G.A.N. of Agora, under the auspices
> > 
> > of which we now conduct these proceedings. The G.A.N. of Agora's
> > 
> > homepage notes that "[the G.A.N. of] Agora is a relatively serious
> > 
> > nomic; many of its players see it as an experiment in philosophy,
> > 
> > political science, and group dynamics, rather than just a game;
> > 
> > sometimes it acts more like a country." [1] I believe that the ends
> > 
> > pursued by players of the G.A.N of Agora have something to teach us
> > 
> > about the isqueal purpose of Nomic play. Maybe the game should be
> > 
> > pursued for the benefit of the art-form of Nomic play, and to broaden
> > 
> > our understanding of the entire universe around this.
> > 
> > On the other hand, working solely toward abstract pursuits cannot be
> > 
> > the goal of Nomic, as that ignores the very nature and foundation of
> > 
> > Nomic play. The G.A.N. of Agora's homepage notes that "On the other
> > 
> > hand, Agorans [that is, citizens of the G.A.N. of Agora] tend not to
> > 
> > be above silliness and having fun; some players will do things just to
> > 
> > see what will happen, or to create unusual situations merely to
> > 
> > observe the resulting chaos." [1] This shows that, as in most games, a
> > 
> > critical goal of Nomic is to have fun. Fun and amusement are in
> > 
> > themselves worthy purposes, and many persons are gainfully employed in
> > 
> > the entertainment industry providing them to others. Would life be
> > 
> > truly worth living without any enjoyment? I will admit that Nomic play
> > 
> > is one of my primary forms of recreation, and I'm not really sure what
> > 
> > I would do without the break from the rest of my life.
> > 
> > Your Honor, I have played the game (i.e. the G.A.N. of Agora) for
> > 
> > quite a while, and served in the office of Promotor for some time now.
> > 
> > In that time, I have had the honor of participating in, playing, and
> > 
> > contributing to the G.A.N. of Agora. I have learned much from this
> > 
> > experience, not only in terms of raw knowledge, but also in life
> > 
> > lessons. I unreservedly state that I am better for the experience of
> > 
> > my play. I have learned how to carefully report facts, how to write
> > 
> > proposals and build consensus, and also how to effectively shuffle
> > 
> > paperwork (I beg the court's pardon for my humor). Perhaps this
> > 
> > personal betterment and growth is the real purpose of Nomic. I'm
> > 
> > certainly not suggesting that other parts of life are actually more
> > 
> > important than Nomic, but is growing as a person not a worthy goal for
> > 
> > all fallible, mortal, sentient beings? [2]
> > 
> > Your Honor, I sincerely apologize for obliging you to read through of
> > 
> > my lengthy arguments. Before you censure me for wasting the court's
> > 
> > time, I ask you to consider what I have said. My Fellow Counsellors
> > 
> > and I have argued for many different ends to Nomic play. If, at the
> > 
> > end of the day, one of them triumphs, then the world may be the better
> > 
> > for that new-found knowledge. However, I think it likely that, at the
> > 
> > end of the day, the court and all assembled here may be forced to act
> > 
> > as Socrates was so often forced to, and suspend judgement. If that
> > 
> > should happen, I ask the court to consider one last dark, but freeing
> > 
> > idea. Perhaps My Fellow Counsellors and I don't actually know what
> > 
> > we're talking about in this entire affair. Perhaps Nomic has no
> > 
> > intrinsic purpose. Perhaps nothing has a purpose, except that which
> > 
> > we, some of us Honorable Officers of the Court, but all mere living
> > 
> > creatures, [2] may dare to assign to it.
> > 
> > [1] https://agoranomic.org
> > 
> > [2] Please pardon me if there any persons here who don't meet that
> > 
> > description, we don't discriminate.
> > 
> > END ARGUMENTS
> > 
> > OOC: Find a rule breach in that. :)
> > 
> > -Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Intention to deputise without portfolio

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

No, not yet, but you would be before the 14-day time limit expired, if you 
weren't planning to continue - I assumed that was what you meant when you said 
you "weren't even going to try to keep track of this". If that was wrong it's 
no problem, naturally.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 13, 2018 9:14 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> You cannot deputize for my office yet because I'm not behind on my duties
> 
> and I also intend to publish the next Cartographor report this Saturday.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 14:51 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > For each office: I intend to deputise for that office to publish its
> > 
> > weekly report, if it would be legal at the time for me to do so.
> > 
> > [I specifically have my eye on Cartographor (with no intention to pass
> > 
> > judgement on Trigon; I don't think it's unreasonable if you don't want to
> > 
> > keep track of things any more, I just feel someone ought to), but I
> > 
> > figure I might as well keep my options open.]
> > 
> > -twg

DIS: Re: BUS: UNIX philosophy for proposals

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On July 13, 2018 10:00 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
> While this does technically bring everyone closer to the same amount of
> 
> money, I'm not sure this is the best way to do it. This also doesn't fix
> 
> the gap in land ownership. I really think we need to do a map reset to
> 
> achieve maximum equality.

Yes, I'm not entirely satisfied with it either. But a full reset feels unfair 
to the people who have already been putting effort into the economy. If we can 
adjust it so that it's at least somewhat more accessible for new players, I'm 
not convinced that it's entirely necessary to erase all progress so far.

I have a vague idea for a land equalisation proposal similar to this one, but 
I'm not quite ready to submit a proposal just yet.


> I don't recall who, but someone said that each different auction system had
> 
> its own benefits, which I agree with. I really think alternating between 5
> 
> auctions and one is the best way to run these auctions. So let it be known
> 
> that I while would support this, I think there's a better way to do it.

I'm about to submit a different proposal that keeps some of the advantages of 
the 5-auctions system; let me know what you think?


> Too cheap, and also I don't really like having all of this information
> 
> under the assets rule. I suggest moving all the library special details to
> 
> another rule.

I did um and ah about the cost - in my original draft, it cost 5 lumber and 5 
paper (with similarly higher upgrade costs). But I realised that most people 
only have a small number of facilities, so it would take a really long time for 
the library to pay for itself. I agree it _seems_ cheap but I think it needs to 
be in order to be useful. I'm not averse, though, to raising the cost if 
several people think it wise - although it must be said that it's not a 
priority since this proposal will probably not be got to for at least a couple 
of weeks.
 
I respectfully disagree about the position of the special details; I see the 
existing upkeep costs rule as the "core" system, and this as an alternative 
that overrides it for library-owners, and so I feel that keeping it with the 
mechanism that _causes_ the override (the definition of libraries) makes more 
sense. (But again, if everyone disagrees I wouldn't object strongly to moving 
it; it's not like the position of the rule in the ruleset makes any difference 
to its interpretation. I think.)


> Yeah but how do you get sand? And glass should be given a purpose, even if
> 
> it is just as a building material.

Ah, I completely forgot to add a new production facility for sand. My bad. 
Though, to be perfectly honest, this was not really polished enough for 
submission; I mainly included it as lorem ipsum in the hope that people would 
not bother reading all the text and not notice the declarations of apathy. :P

> I object to all intents to declare apathy in the quoted message.

Eh. It was worth a try. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-twg

DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Steel Based Manufacturing

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I suggest adding also "Create 5 steel in the possession of every player who is 
not eligible for a Welcome Package."

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 14, 2018 7:04 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I retract "Steel Based Manufacturing", and submit the following.
> 
> -Aris
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Title: Steel Based Manufacturing v2
> 
> Adoption index: 3.0
> 
> Author: Aris
> 
> Co-authors:
> 
> If "Crackdown on minting (reindustrialisation edition)" has not been
> 
> adopted, or if the votes on it are such that it would not be adopted if
> 
> it were resolved now, this proposal has no effect.
> 
> Amend Rule 2563 by changing all instances of the words "coin" and "coins"
> 
> to "steel".
> 
> Amend Rule 2564 by changing all instances of the words "coin" and "coins"
> 
> to "steel".
> 
> Add "5 steel", appropriately numbered, to the list in Rule 2499,
> 
> "Welcome Packages".
> 
> 
> -
> 
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 11:52 PM Aris Merchant
> 
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > I submit the following proposal.
> > 
> > -Aris
> > 
> > Title: Steel Based Manufacturing
> > 
> > Adoption index: 3.0
> > 
> > Author: Aris
> > 
> > Co-authors:
> > 
> > If "Crackdown on minting (reindustrialisation edition)" has not been
> > 
> > adopted, or if the votes on it are such that it would not be adopted if
> > 
> > it were resolved now, this proposal has no effect.
> > 
> > Amend Rule 2563 by changing all instances of the words "coin" and "coins"
> > 
> > to "steel".
> > 
> > Amend Rule 2564 by changing all instances of the words "coin" and "coins"
> > 
> > to "steel".

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: UNIX philosophy for proposals

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On July 14, 2018 9:44 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
> Title: Frankenstein's land auctions

Side note, do people approve of the whimsical proposal names? I can switch to 
more functional names if you like, it just seemed a little more... ah... 
nomic-esque.

-twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Intention to deputise without portfolio

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Yeah, the only reason I left it as vague as I did was to leave the door open 
for a potential scam - which didn't work out as I planned because it relied on 
a certain confluence of events that ended up not happening. (Not going to 
explain it in case I get the chance to use it again in the future.) Really, 
like I said, I was only going for Cartographor, and that was based on my 
misconception that Trigon didn't want to do it any more, which e's since 
cleared up.

To clarify, I don't currently plan to deputise for any office in the near 
future.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 15, 2018 7:49 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Sure, just so long as you're not planning to deputize for Promotor. :)
> 
> More seriously: it's generally considered polite to deputize for an
> 
> office that's vacant, or very extremely late. Mostly active or
> 
> semi-active players don't tend to like having their offices suddenly
> 
> taken from them, even if they were late on reports, and this has
> 
> caused some disputes in the past, of the meta/people actually got
> 
> upset variety. Just a friendly warning.
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 3:44 PM Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > No, not yet, but you would be before the 14-day time limit expired, if you 
> > weren't planning to continue - I assumed that was what you meant when you 
> > said you "weren't even going to try to keep track of this". If that was 
> > wrong it's no problem, naturally.
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On July 13, 2018 9:14 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > You cannot deputize for my office yet because I'm not behind on my duties
> > > 
> > > and I also intend to publish the next Cartographor report this Saturday.
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 14:51 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > 
> > > > For each office: I intend to deputise for that office to publish its
> > > > 
> > > > weekly report, if it would be legal at the time for me to do so.
> > > > 
> > > > [I specifically have my eye on Cartographor (with no intention to pass
> > > > 
> > > > judgement on Trigon; I don't think it's unreasonable if you don't want 
> > > > to
> > > > 
> > > > keep track of things any more, I just feel someone ought to), but I
> > > > 
> > > > figure I might as well keep my options open.]
> > > > 
> > > > -twg

DIS: Re: BUS: Election update

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I vote [Aris, Corona] in the ongoing Prime Minister election.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 15, 2018 5:50 PM, Edward Murphy  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Prime Minister
> 
> election. The vote collector is the ADoP (me), the valid options are
> 
> Aris Corona and anyone else who becomes a candidate before voting ends,
> 
> and the voting method is instant runoff.
> 
> IINM, quorum is still 4 to 6, based on Proposal 8057 (some attempted
> 
> votes were ambiguously effective).

Re: Agora blacklisted (Re: DIS: My agora email keeps breaking)

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Aris pended the proposals in the same message as eir Promotor report, which may 
be why you can't find them in the archives.

Just for once, I'm actually not missing any emails, which is nice but sadly 
doesn't help solve the problem.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 16, 2018 3:07 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> There's at least two messages that weren't received by me in the last 24 
> hours:
> 
> -   Aris's pend-with-paper that I can't even find in the archives.
> -   twg's receiving of coins from Foundry (which is in the archives at least).
> 
> (I'm inferring the existence of both of these from twg's Report).
> 
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> 
> 
> > It's on the spamcop.net blacklist again right now FWIW, and I'm not 
> > receiving
> > 
> > email.
> > 
> > The blacklist blocks via spamtrap email addresses, so presumably one of them
> > 
> > got on a list somehow (vandals?) or otherwise Comex's server is infested 
> > with
> > 
> > spam malware.
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > Ørjan.
> > 
> > On Sun, 15 Jul 2018, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> > 
> > > I got a local NVG admin to look at this, and apparently the Agora list
> > > 
> > > server keeps getting intermittently on the spamcop.net blacklist.
> > > 
> > > (Perhaps unrelatedly, my admin also suggested it should get a reverse DNS
> > > 
> > > entry.)
> > > 
> > > Sadly the local fix he applied isn't quite working for me yet, as I'm 
> > > still
> > > 
> > > missing most Agora mail from yesterday and the day before.
> > > 
> > > Greetings,
> > > 
> > > Ørjan.
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2018, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> > > 
> > > > My email from the list keeps intermittently bouncing, and a-d and a-b 
> > > > got
> > > > 
> > > > disabled for me. Again. Looking at the archive subject lines, it seems 
> > > > to
> > > > 
> > > > happen whenever there's a day with particularly active discussion.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't know why, since I cannot see the bounce messages, so I cannot
> > > > 
> > > > take
> > > > 
> > > > steps to try to correct it. And comex hasn't responded, I suppose he
> > > > 
> > > > might
> > > > 
> > > > be on vacation or something.
> > > > 
> > > > I have only this one ordinary email account (it's older than Agora so 
> > > > I'm
> > > > 
> > > > pretty attached to it), but I've tried sending a few messages to myself
> > > > 
> > > > from a different place (the Esolang wiki) to see if the problem is a
> > > > 
> > > > general one on my end, and none of those messages bounced.
> > > > 
> > > > Greetings,
> > > > 
> > > > Ørjan.

DIS: Test (not a report)

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I figured it might be interesting to see whether Unicode box-drawing characters 
actually have wide support these days. How does it look to the rest of you?

-twg

┌─┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┐
│Entity   │Ston│Appl│Corn│ Ore│Lmbr│Cotn│Coin│Papr│Fabr│Incs│
├─┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┤
│ATMunn   │   6│  37│   2│   0│   7│   0│  79│  16│   0│  15│
│Aris │   5│  35│  11│   0│   5│   0│ 117│  17│   0│  14│
│Corona   │  31│  92│  48│   0│  10│   0│ 170│  31│ 233│  16│
│CuddleBeam   │  11│  23│   9│   4│   8│   9│  60│  12│   0│  14│
│G.   │  42│  91│  23│   0│   6│   3│ 613│  33│  68│  36│
│Murphy   │   0│  27│   6│   0│   3│   0│  76│  13│   0│  14│
│omd  │   0│   5│   1│   0│   0│   0│  15│   2│   0│   3│
│Pub. Scrib. Schol.   │   5│  20│   0│   0│   5│   0│  28│   7│   0│   9│
│Trigon   │   2│  14│  17│   4│   0│   0│  49│   9│   0│  14│
│twg  │  31│  84│   4│   0│  35│   3│ 393│  17│   0│  25│
│V.J. Rada│  10│  75│   3│   0│  10│   0│ 105│  24│   0│  28│
├─┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┤
│Entity   │Ston│Appl│Corn│ Ore│Lmbr│Cotn│Coin│Papr│Fabr│Incs│
├─┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┤
│Gaelan   │  14│  33│   2│   6│   2│   0│  57│  12│   0│  14│
│Kenyon   │   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│
│nichdel  │   0│  10│   0│   0│   0│   0│  20│   4│   0│   6│
│o│   0│   5│   0│   0│   0│   0│  10│   2│   0│   3│
│Ouri │   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│   0│
│pokes│   0│   5│   0│   0│   0│   0│  10│   2│   0│   3│
│Quazie   │   0│   5│   0│   0│   0│   0│  10│   2│   0│   3│
│Telnaior │   0│   5│   0│   0│   0│   0│  10│   2│   0│   3│
│天火狐│   0│  10│   0│   0│   0│   0│  20│   4│   0│   6│
├─┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┤
│Entity   │Ston│Appl│Corn│ Ore│Lmbr│Cotn│Coin│Papr│Fabr│Incs│
└─┴┴┴┴┴┴┴┴┴┴┘

Re: DIS: Test (not a report)

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=
> 
> =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=
> 
> =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=A4
> 
> =E2=94=82Gaelan =E2=94=82 14=E2=94=82 33=E2=94=82 2=E2=94=
> 
> =82 6=E2=94=82 2=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 57=E2=94=82 12=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 14=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82Kenyon =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=
> 
> =82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 0=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82nichdel =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 10=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=
> 
> =82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 20=E2=94=82 4=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 6=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82o =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 5=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=
> 
> =82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 10=E2=94=82 2=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 3=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82Ouri =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=
> 
> =82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 0=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82pokes =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 5=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=
> 
> =82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 10=E2=94=82 2=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 3=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82Quazie =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 5=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=
> 
> =82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 10=E2=94=82 2=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 3=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82Telnaior =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 5=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=
> 
> =82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 10=E2=94=82 2=E2=94=82 0=E2=
> 
> =94=82 3=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=82=E5=A4=A9=E7=81=AB=E7=8B=90 =E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 =
> 
> 10=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 20=E2=94=
> 
> =82 4=E2=94=82 0=E2=94=82 6=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=9C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=
> 
> =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=
> 
> =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=A4
> 
> =E2=94=82Entity =E2=94=82Ston=E2=94=82Appl=E2=94=82Corn=E2=94=
> 
> =82 Ore=E2=94=82Lmbr=E2=94=82Cotn=E2=94=82Coin=E2=94=82Papr=E2=94=82Fabr=E2=
> 
> =94=82Incs=E2=94=82
> 
> =E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=
> 
> =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=
> 
> =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=
> 
> =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=
> 
> =80=E2=94=B4=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=98
> 
> Like that.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 11:56 AM Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I figured it might be interesting to see whether Unicode box-drawing 
> > characters actually have wide support these days. How does it look to the 
> > rest of you?
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ┌─┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┬┐
> > 
> > │Entity │Ston│Appl│Corn│ Ore│Lmbr│Cotn│Coin│Papr│Fabr│Incs│
> > 
> > ├─┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┼┤
> > 
> > │ATMunn │ 6│ 37│ 2│ 0│ 7│ 0│ 79│ 16│ 0│ 15│
> > 
> > │Aris │ 5│ 35│ 11│ 0│ 5│ 0│ 117│ 17│ 0│ 14│
> > 
> > │Corona │ 31│ 92│ 48│ 0│ 10│ 0│ 170│ 31│ 233│ 16│
> > 
> > │CuddleBeam │ 11│ 23│ 9│ 4│ 8│ 9│ 60│ 12│ 0│ 14│
> > 
> > │G. │ 42│ 91│ 23│ 0│ 6│ 3│ 613│ 33│ 68│ 36│
> > 
> > │Murphy │ 0│ 27│ 6│ 0│ 3│ 0│ 76│ 13│ 0│ 14│
> > 
> > │omd │ 0│ 5│ 1│ 0│ 0│ 0│ 1

Re: DIS: Fwd: [AgoraNomic/Library] Page build failure

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I've actually been having intermittent problems connecting to GitHub at all, so 
my guess would be a temporary glitch or DoS attack or something on their end. I 
certainly can't see any problems with your markup.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 16, 2018 5:53 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Would anyone be willing to take a look at this and tell me if they see
> 
> anything to cause the error?
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> 
> From: GitHub supp...@github.com
> 
> Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 1:52 PM
> 
> Subject: [AgoraNomic/Library] Page build failure
> 
> To: PubliusScriboniusScholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> 
> The page build failed for the`master` branch with the following error:
> 
> Page build failed. For more information, see
> 
> https://help.github.com/articles/troubleshooting-github-pages-builds/.
> 
> For information on troubleshooting Jekyll see:
> 
> https://help.github.com/articles/troubleshooting-jekyll-builds
> 
> If you have any questions you can contact us by replying to this email.

Re: DIS: BUS broke for me now

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Well, in this case I think it's irrelevant; the message in which the Assessor 
resolves decisions on proposals isn't defined as a _report_, so "CoEs" against 
it are informal anyway. But I agree it's something that needs clarifying.

Looking at rule 208, I believe the only question is whether you correctly 
stated each decision's outcome and tally of votes (in which case that decision 
has been resolved) or you didn't (in which case your attempt to resolve that 
decision was invalid).

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 19, 2018 4:04 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2018, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 19 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > > I did not receive either reply to the voting results that's in
> > > 
> > > the BUS archives. By recent precedent, if a # of people didn't
> > > 
> > > receive them the CoE's weren't made.
> > 
> > How big a #? This is really horribly indeterminate.
> 
> Agreed, and I dunno.

Re: DIS: BUS broke for me now

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

You're right, I didn't see that rule. (It didn't contain any of my search terms 
- "Assessor", "ratification", "resolution".) Sorry.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 19, 2018 4:18 PM, Alex Smith  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> On Thu, 2018-07-19 at 12:15 -0400, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> 
> > Well, in this case I think it's irrelevant; the message in which the
> > 
> > Assessor resolves decisions on proposals isn't defined as a report,
> > 
> > so "CoEs" against it are informal anyway. But I agree it's something
> > 
> > that needs clarifying.
> 
> It's self-ratifying (Rule 2034). Presumably CoEs against it are valid,
> 
> as otherwise, how would you stop the self-ratification?
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> ais523

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Humiliating Public Reminder

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Well, the solution for that is for enough people to vote (in the next decision 
with uncertain quorum) to beat the maximum possible value of quorum.

I think decision uncertainty is far more undesirable than quorum uncertainty. 
We're just about coping with having two possible quora for each decision, but 
things will get really confusing if the ruleset diverges as well.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 23, 2018 3:03 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> You can fix decision uncertainty, but this unavoidably perpetuates the quorum
> 
> uncertainty. Any votes now are valid if and only if the voting period has been
> 
> extended, so their validity for determining quorum in the next batch will be
> 
> uncertain...
> 
> (Personally I'm abstaining on purpose so I'm decidedly not humiliated).
> 
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> 
> > Quorum on the Agoran Decisions on whether or not to adopt Proposals 
> > 8066-8076
> > 
> > is either 5.0 or 7.0. There were 6 votes on each Decision.
> > 
> > If quorum is 5.0, then I have a week in which to announce the result. And if
> > 
> > it's 7.0, then the voting period is extended by a week. This means that I 
> > can
> > 
> > still unambiguously resolve these Decisions, but only if one of the 
> > following
> > 
> > slackers attempts to cast a vote soon - even PRESENT:
> > 
> > ATMunn, Corona, CuddleBeam, G., omd, Trigon, V.J. Rada,
> > 
> > Gaelan, nichdel, Ouri, pokes, Quazie, Telnaior and 天火狐.
> > 
> > The aforementioned (active) slackers ought to be ashamed of themselves for
> > 
> > bringing this confusion upon Agora. You people are why we can't have nice
> > 
> > things. I expect better of you all in the future.
> > 
> > If quorum on these Decisions is 5.0, then the above is a humiliating public
> > 
> > reminder, courtesy of Rule 2168. (Otherwise, I suppose it is merely a
> > 
> > humiliating public statement.)
> > 
> > -twg

DIS: Re: BUS: Some boring proposals

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Yeah, I agree it's probably not actually necessary, but I figure more precision 
can't be a bad thing, and in the unlikely event that it _does_ actually close a 
loophole, we'll be glad of it.

Good to know you're taking care of the Points Installation Act, I'll look 
forward to it. :) And congratulations on your election!

​​-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 23, 2018 7:01 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> Thanks for the offer! I've written it. I just need to look it over, and I'll 
> probably publish a draft sometime tomorow (UTC-7:00). After that, I'll leave 
> a few days for public comment, and then distribute later this week. Good idea 
> on providing a flat adjustment version of "From each according to eir means"; 
> the other one might prove unpopular among the wealthy.
> 
> Re the patches, both of those almost certainly work as is. SHALL and shall 
> are generally equivalent, although the later sometimes means will. May often 
> means CAN, although MAY always implies permission. You are making them more 
> precise, and it doesn't do any harm. I'm just not sure that there's much 
> ambiguity to begin with.
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 3:21 PM Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
> 
> > I submit the following proposals. I pend the proposal "Patchy McPatchface".
> > 
> > I do also intend to pend the two "From each according to eir means" 
> > proposals,
> > 
> > but I'm waiting until I know what's happening with the Points Installation 
> > Act,
> > 
> > since they need to be voted on at the same time per Aris' Long-Term Economic
> > 
> > Plan. I'm happy to draft it myself (albeit not tonight) but I don't want to
> > 
> > tread on your toes, Aris, if you're already doing the same thing.
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > //
> > 
> > Title: From each according to eir means v2
> > 
> > Adoption index: 2.0
> > 
> > Author: twg
> > 
> > [An alternative algorithm which may be slightly preferable: Quarter
> > 
> > the coin balances instead of square-rooting them.]
> > 
> > If the votes on the proposal titled "From each according to eir
> > 
> > means" authored by twg are such that it has been or will undoubtedly
> > 
> > be ADOPTED, then this proposal has no effect.
> > 
> > For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
> > 
> > facility to its owner.
> > 
> > For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
> > 
> > zombie to its owner.
> > 
> > Decrease the coin balance of each player to one-quarter (rounded up to
> > 
> > the next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before
> > 
> > this sentence took effect.
> > 
> > //
> > 
> > Title: Patchy McPatchface
> > 
> > Adoption index: 3.0
> > 
> > Author: twg
> > 
> > Amend rule 478, "Fora", by replacing "may change" with "CAN change".
> > 
> > Amend rule 1789, "Cantus Cygneus", by replacing every occurrence of
> > 
> > "shall" with "SHALL".
> > 
> > //

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Humiliating Public Reminder

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

NttPF, not that it actually makes any difference to anything now anyway.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On July 26, 2018 9:06 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> I hereby ratify the following document, having received no objection,
> as intended:
> {
> The quorum on each of the decisions to adopt Proposals 8066-8076 is 5.
> }
>
> --
>
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 11:48 AM Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
>
> > Ok sure i withdraw this objection.
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> > > I object. I would not object to the highest quorum value.

DIS: Re: BUS: upkeep

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Proposal 8072 changes processing facilities' upkeep costs from 3 coins to 3 
steel.

We really need a Rulekeepor, don't we.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On July 26, 2018 9:20 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I pay the following upkeep costs for the indicated facilities:
>
> > E (+3, -2) Rank 2 Mine, owned by G.
>
> 2n-2 lumber = 2 lumber.
>
> > F (+4, -1) Rank 3 Mine, owned by G.
>
> 2n-2 lumber = 4 lumber.
>
> > G (+4, 0) Rank 3 Orchard, owned by G.
>
> 2n-2 stones = 4 stones.
>
> > H (+3, 0) Rank 3 Mine, owned by G.
>
> 2n-2 lumber = 4 lumber.
>
> > I (+2, 0) Rank 3 Orchard, owned by G.
>
> 2n-2 stones = 4 stones.
>
> > Q (+3, -1) Rank 5 Refinery, owned by G.
>
> 3 Coins (not Rank 5 anymore) as per Proposal 8067.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: removing a blot

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

V.J. Rada didn't vote in the most recently resolved batch of proposals, and all 
the ones before that have self-ratified already, so there is no effect on 
proposals. Don't know what it means for officer elections, though - Murphy can 
probably say more definitively.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On July 27, 2018 2:58 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> If the proposal results were wrong, then it's still the old way (incense)
> to do that. (I also don't know what the heck I paid in refinery upkeep).
>
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2018, Rebecca wrote:
>
> > I expunge a blot from myself
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions -- July week 4

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Worth a try!

I bid 118 coins in each of Auctions 2-5.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On July 29, 2018 9:03 PM, Corona  wrote:

> I bid 80 coins in each of Auctions 2-5.
>
> On Sunday, July 29, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
>
> > I withdraw my bids on each of Auctions 2-5. I bid 76 coins on each of
> > Auctions 2-5.
> > -twg
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On July 26, 2018 9:04 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> >
> > > I bid 109 coins in each of the below auctions.
> > > -twg
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > On July 26, 2018 12:21 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since the current Prime Minister seems to favor pure legislative theft,
> > > > I see no reason to play "nice" here:
> > > > I bid 75 coins in every one of the below auctions.
> > > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land units
> > > > > in
> > >
> > > > > existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my choice are
> > > > > put up for
> > >
> > > > > auction.
> > > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > > > > auctioneer, and
> > >
> > > > > the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (+4, +1)
> > > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +3)
> > > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -3)
> > > > > AUCTION 4: the land unit at (+6, +3)
> > > > > AUCTION 5: the land unit at (+6, -3)
> >
> > > > > Trigon
>
> --
>
> ~Corona

DIS: Re: BUS: Revamping movement

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Doesn't include G.'s land grants (proposal 8064).

Also, may I suggest allowing people to destroy apples and corn to increase _any 
player's_ EP? Makes zombie movement less of a faff.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On July 31, 2018 11:16 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> This is something I've been meaning to do for a long time. It's taken
> from MALF. I submit and pend the following proposal:
>
> Title: Revamping movement
> AI: 1
> Author: Trigon
> Co-authors:
>
> Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text with:
> Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural player
> switch. Players can destroy one apple to increase eir Energy
> Points by one. Players can destroy one corn to increase eir
> Energy Points by three. At the beginning of the week, each
> player's Energy Points switch is flipped to 0.
>
> Any player can decrease eir Energy Points by:
>
> 1. 1 to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if their Land
> Types are the same and the destination is not Aether;
>
> 2. 2 to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if their Land
> Types differ and the destination is not Aether;
>
> 3. 2 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit which e owns to either
> Black or White.
>
> 4. 3 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is adjacent to the
> Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is owned by
> Agora, to an alternating Land Type.
>
> 5. 4 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is adjacent to the
> Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is owned by
> Agora, to either Black or White.
>
> 6. 6 to set the Land Type of any Land Unit that is of type Aether
> and is owned by Agora, to an alternating Land Type.
>
> --
>
> Trigon

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions -- July week 4

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

They are banned from bidding in zombie auctions, not in land auctions.

I suppose an alternative solution to the loophole would be to ban zombies from 
bidding in land auctions as well, but I feel we should leave _some_ benefits to 
owning a zombie, otherwise there's not a lot of point.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 1, 2018 5:17 PM, Corona  wrote:

> Wait... aren't zombies banned from bidding? How does this work?
>
> On Wednesday, August 1, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
>
> > On July 30, 2018 9:45 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> >
> > > (For reassurance: Using the zombie is not an attempt to get around the
> > > pledges/promises; I'm intending to exploit a totally different loophole. 
> > > In
> > > fact I don't think it would even work to evade the promises, since I'm
> > > still bidding, just not on my own behalf.)
> >
> > I transfer all liquid assets in the possession of the orchard at (+5, 0) to
> > myself.
> > I act on behalf of Kenyon to transfer all liquid assets in the possession
> > of
> > the mine at (-1, +2) to Kenyon. I act on behalf of Kenyon to transfer all
> > eir
> > liquid assets to myself.
> > As I have not won a land auction in the current or previous Agoran month, I
> > destroy 1 corn to Stake a Land Claim on (+5, -1). I choose for (+5, -1) to
> > be
> > white.
> > I act on behalf of Kenyon to submit and pend the following proposal:
> > //
> > Title: Return of the Zombie Loopholes
> > Adoption index: 1.0
> > Author: Kenyon
> > Co-authors: twg
> > Amend rule 2003, "Actions in Arcadia", by replacing the text "and has
> > not won a land auction in the current or previous month" with "and has
> > not, in the current or previous month, either won a land auction or
> > been the master of a zombie when the zombie won a land auction".
> > //
> > I destroy 8 lumber and 4 stones to build a loom at (+5, -1). I transfer
> > all my
> > cotton to the loom at (+5, -1).
> > -twg
>
> --
>
> ~Corona

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: idk

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Yes and yes, so unfortunately you can't start auctions by contract any more. 
Not that that would necessarily be the best method, anyway - I imagine you 
wouldn't have any use for the funds you'd collect. Perhaps some sort of lottery 
(making a pledge to choose the winner fairly)? If it helps, I believe your land 
unit (and attached farm) is by far the most valuable asset in your possession.

Also, as Assessor, could I ask you to vote (even PRESENT) in the current batch 
of proposals before you go? Quorum is rather high at the moment.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 2, 2018 4:45 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> Also, I'd like to distribute my assets to others in a fair way, so that
> someone doesn't buy me as a zombie and get a bunch of stuff, as has
> happened previously a lot. What is the best way to do this? Have
> contracts changed like was discussed? Can you even loot zombies like
> that still?
>
> On 8/2/2018 12:40 PM, ATMunn wrote:
>
> > I really haven't had any interest to try to play Agora recently. I'm
> > not going to deregister, because last time I did that I regretted it,
> > but I won't be opposed to becoming a zombie.
> > I resign the office of Tailor, if I still hold it.

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Humiliating Public Reminder to Vote on Proposals 8077-8081

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

In that case, I can't find the message where you did so. Can you provide an 
archives link and/or give an estimate of when you sent it and/or just resubmit 
your votes?

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 3, 2018 12:00 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> I have already voted.
>
> --
>
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:34 PM Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
>
> > Quorum on the Agoran Decisions to adopt Proposals 8077-8081 is 14.0, but
> > there are only 6 valid ballots on each, so if resolved now, each one's
> > outcome would be FAILED QUORUM. Per Rule 2168, their voting periods are
> > now extended an additional 7 days to August 9, 2018, 7:04 AM UTC.
> > The following slackers have not yet cast any votes on these Agoran
> > Decisions despite being eligible, and are hereby humiliatingly publicly
> > reminded:
> > ATMunn, Corona, CuddleBeam, omd, P.S.S., Trigon,
> > Gaelan, nichdel, o, Ouri, pokes, Quazie, Telnaior, 天火狐.
> > Now, I realise that the quorum being so high is mainly my fault for not
> > resolving the previous distribution quickly enough, and so I feel I ought
> > to offer an incentive in return. I act on behalf of Kenyon (because I
> > find it amusing to see how far this zombie thing can be taken :P) to
> > submit and pend the following proposal:
> > //
> > Title: Plain Old Bribery, Mk. II
> > Adoption index: 1.0
> > Author: Kenyon
> > Co-authors: twg
> > Each person who has
> > (a) cast a vote FOR this proposal that is valid, unconditional and not
> > withdrawn, and
> > (b) cast a vote on each of proposals 8077-8081 that is valid and not
> > withdrawn, and
> > (c) either:
> > (i) has not been a zombie master at any time since July 25,
> > 2018, or
> > (ii) has acted on behalf of a zombie to cast a vote on each of
> > proposals 8077-8081 that is valid and not withdrawn
> > hereby earns a Black Ribbon.
> > //
> > -twg

Re: Fwd: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8066-8077

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Ah, I see the confusion now - this is in fact the previous batch of proposals 
(8066-8076, not 8077-8081). Sorry.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 3, 2018 10:58 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> AttPF
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> > Date: July 16, 2018 at 1:18:53 PM EDT
> > To: Agora Business agora-busin...@agoranomic.org
> > Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 
> > 8066-8077
> > TTttPF
> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 12:28 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > I vote, on behalf of myself and my zombie, as Aris has, on all
> > > proposals included below, except 8068 and 8069, on which I vote, on
> > > behalf of myself and my zombie, as follows:
> > > 8068: FOR
> > > 8069: AGAINST
> > > On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 8:09 PM Aris Merchant
> > > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > I vote as follows:
> > > >
> > > > > ID Author(s) AI Title Pender
> > > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > >
> > > > > 8066+ twg, Trigon 2.0 Separation of church and state Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8067+ twg, Trigon 2.0 Reining in the Von Neumann machines Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8068+ twg 1.0 Back to one auction Aris
> > > > > AGAINST
> > > > > 8069+ twg 1.0 Frankenstein's land auctions Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8070+ twg 2.0 [1] Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8071+ twg 2.0 [2] Aris
> > > > > AGAINST
> > > > > 8072+ Aris, twg 3.0 Steel Based Manufacturing v3 Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8073+ Aris 3.0 Comments Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8074+ Aris, [3] 3.0 Office Patch Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8075+ Aris, G. 3.0 Less Critical Patching Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > > > 8076+ Aris, G. 3.0 Regulation Patches Aris
> > > > > FOR
> > > >
> > > > > [1] Crackdown on minting (reindustrialisation edition)
> > > > > [2] Crackdown on minting (scorched-earth edition)
> > > > > [3] G., P.S.S.
> > > >
> > > > -Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Revamping movement

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Sorry, only just noticed this - you changed "force-feed" to "feed" in one place 
but missed the other occurrence.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 4, 2018 5:16 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> I feel I've given ample time to submit notes on this version.
>
> I withdraw my proposal entitled "Revamping movement" if possible.
>
> I pend the quoted proposal entitled "Revamping movement v3.1".
>
> On 08/03/2018 11:47 AM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>
> > > G.
> >
> > I believe this is implied by R2509, but I have added a provision in the
> > case that it's not.
> >
> > > Aris
> >
> > That is a valid concern. The reason it is the way it is now is simply
> > that I thought it was funny to include excessively ridiculous words.
> > Nevertheless, I have changed it in the below version.
> > This version also makes some organizational changes inspired by the
> > previous revision. This will likely be the final version of this
> > proposal published.
> >
> > Title: Revamping movement v3.1
> > AI: 1
> > Author: Trigon
> > Co-authors: twg, Aris, G., Corona
> > Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text with:
> >   Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural player
> >   switch. Any action which would decrease a player's EP below 0
> >   is INEFFECTIVE.
> > Players CAN eat a quantity of apples or corn. To eat is to pay a
> >   fee of the stated quantity to increase your EP by one for each
> >   apple and three for each corn.
> > Players CAN feed another player a quantity of apples or corn. To
> >   force-feed is to pay a fee of the stated quantity to increase the
> >   EP of another player using the values given above.
> > At the beginning of the week, each player's Energy Points switch
> >   is flipped to 0.
> > Any player CAN perform any of the following actions by
> >   announcement:
> > 1. move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit. This action
> >  decreases eir EP by:
> > a. 1 if the their Land Types are the same or one is gray;
> >  b. 2 if their Land Types differ, neither is gray, and the
> >     destination is not Aether.
> > 2. set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is adjacent to the
> >  Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is owned by
> >  Agora, to:
> > a. an alternating Land Type. This action decreases eir EP by 3.
> >  b. eir choice of either Black or White. This action decreases
> >     eir EP by 4.
> > 3. set the Land Type of any Land Unit to:
> > a. if e owns it, eir choice of either Black or White. This
> >     action decreases eir EP by 2.
> >  b. if Agora owns it, an alternating Land Type. This action
> >     decreases eir EP by 6.
> > 4. Stake a Land Claim on a specified Land Unit that is adjacent to
> >  the Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is owned
> >  by Agora, if and only if e is active, has not staked a land
> >  claim in the current month, and has not won a land auction in
> >  the current or previous month.  When e stakes a land claim, the
> >  unit's land type is set to the land type of eir choice, then is
> >  transferred to em, then e moves onto that unit.
> > On 08/03/2018 11:14 AM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> >
> > > With G.'s suggestion, this looks pretty great content-wise. I would
> > > request
> > > that you change "force-feed" to "feed", though, because the real world
> > > contexts where the former occurs are somewhat upsetting.
> > > -Aris
> > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:10 AM Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > This reads really clearly and I like it this way around.  Minor edit:
> > > > capitalize the CAN and add to that sentence "if it would not reduce eir
> > > > EP below 0"?  (Not sure if it's implied anyway, better safe than sorry?)
> > > > On Wed, 1 Aug 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I believe this institutes a clear cause-and-effect. Please notify me 
> > > > > if
> > > > > it
> > > > > doesn't, G..
> > > > > Title: Revamping movement v3
> > > > > AI: 1
> > > > > Author: Trigon
> > > > > Co-authors:
> > > > > Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text with:
> > > > >    Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural player
> > > > >    switch.
> > > > > Players can eat a quantity of apples or corn. To eat is to pay a
> > > > >    fee of the stated quantity to increase your EP by one for each
> > > > >    apple and three for each corn.
> > > > > Players can force-feed another player a quantity of apples or
> > > > >    corn. To force-feed is to pay a fee of the stated quantity to
> > > > >    increase the EP of another player using the values given above.
> > > > > At the beginning of the week, each player's Energy Points switch
> > > > >    is flipped to 0.
> > > > > Any player can perform any of the following actions by
> > > > >    announcement:
> > > > > 1

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Revamping movement

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

NttPF.

I'm not _trying_ to catch you out, I promise...

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 4, 2018 5:24 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> Oh come on. That's cruel.
>
> I withdraw my proposal entitled "Revamping movement v3.1" if possible.
>
> I submit and pend the following proposal.
>
> -
>
> Title: Revamping movement v3.2
> AI: 1
> Author: Trigon
> Co-authors: twg, Aris, G., Corona
>
> Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text with:
> Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural player
> switch. Any action which would decrease a player's EP below 0
> is INEFFECTIVE.
>
> Players CAN eat a quantity of apples or corn. To eat is to pay a
> fee of the stated quantity to increase your EP by one for each
> apple and three for each corn.
>
> Players CAN feed another player a quantity of apples or corn. To
> feed is to pay a fee of the stated quantity to increase the EP of
> another player using the values given above.
>
> At the beginning of the week, each player's Energy Points switch
> is flipped to 0.
>
> Any player CAN perform any of the following actions by
> announcement:
>
> 1. move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit. This action
> decreases eir EP by:
>
> a. 1 if the their Land Types are the same or one is gray;
> b. 2 if their Land Types differ, neither is gray, and the
> destination is not Aether.
>
> 2. set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is adjacent to the
> Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is owned by
> Agora, to:
>
> a. an alternating Land Type. This action decreases eir EP by 3.
> b. eir choice of either Black or White. This action decreases
> eir EP by 4.
>
> 3. set the Land Type of any Land Unit to:
>
> a. if e owns it, eir choice of either Black or White. This
> action decreases eir EP by 2.
> b. if Agora owns it, an alternating Land Type. This action
> decreases eir EP by 6.
>
> 4. Stake a Land Claim on a specified Land Unit that is adjacent to
> the Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is owned
> by Agora, if and only if e is active, has not staked a land
> claim in the current month, and has not won a land auction in
> the current or previous month. When e stakes a land claim, the
> unit's land type is set to the land type of eir choice, then is
> transferred to em, then e moves onto that unit.
>
> On 08/04/2018 11:18 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> > Sorry, only just noticed this - you changed "force-feed" to "feed" in one 
> > place but missed the other occurrence.
> > -twg
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On August 4, 2018 5:16 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > I feel I've given ample time to submit notes on this version.
> > > I withdraw my proposal entitled "Revamping movement" if possible.
> > > I pend the quoted proposal entitled "Revamping movement v3.1".
> > > On 08/03/2018 11:47 AM, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > >
> > > > > G.
> > > >
> > > > I believe this is implied by R2509, but I have added a provision in the
> > > > case that it's not.
> > > >
> > > > > Aris
> > > >
> > > > That is a valid concern. The reason it is the way it is now is simply
> > > > that I thought it was funny to include excessively ridiculous words.
> > > > Nevertheless, I have changed it in the below version.
> > > > This version also makes some organizational changes inspired by the
> > > > previous revision. This will likely be the final version of this
> > > > proposal published.
> > > > Title: Revamping movement v3.1
> > > > AI: 1
> > > > Author: Trigon
> > > > Co-authors: twg, Aris, G., Corona
> > > > Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text with:
> > > >   Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural player
> > > >   switch. Any action which would decrease a player's EP below 0
> > > >   is INEFFECTIVE.
> > > > Players CAN eat a quantity of apples or corn. To eat is to pay a
> > > >   fee of the stated quantity to increase your EP by one for each
> > > >   apple and three for each corn.
> > > > Players CAN feed another player a quantity of apples or corn. To
> > > >   force-feed is to pay a fee of the stated

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] [RWO] Routine Worst-Case Cleanup

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Actually, the previous batch was resolved _after_ this batch was distributed, 
so I believe quorum is only 5 at the moment. It will be higher (at least 7) 
when the current batch is resolved.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 8, 2018 7:51 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> The old precedents don't apply. Previously the rules said something
> like "a proposal is created by publishing a body of text that is clearly
> marked as a proposal" which meant that you could accidentally do that
> if you marked something as a proposal when you distributed. Now it
> says "create by announcement" which means you have to clearly say
> that you're creating it (I think the change was done on purpose after
> the precedents, so the legislative fix has been made).
>
> Pool report aside, you're definitely better off delaying distribution until
> assessing the current batch brings down quorum?
>
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 10:40 PM Aris Merchant <
> > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I intend to ratify the following document without objection:
> > > {Any entity that has existed before the beginning of the month of
> > > July, 2018, and has not yet been assessed, is not a proposal.}
> > > The above document would cleanup any proposals that the Assessor
> > > somehow missed, so that they don't reek havoc on the current game.
> > > This message is not part of a scam.
> >
> > Without objection, I do so.
> > I have information that suggests proposals that meet the above description
> > might in fact have existed. Past precedent appears to suggest that
> > incorrect distributions actually create proposals, which is not in line
> > with present practice. I intend to create a proposal to legislatively
> > clarify the matter when I get a chance.
> > I point my finger at myself for the Class-8 Crime of Endorsing Forgery. I
> > plead guilty to this offense. I opine that the sentence otherwise due
> > should be reduced because a) I acted only to do what I perceived as in the
> > game's best interests; and b) I'd honestly forgotten that this was a crime.
> > In light of these facts, I recommend a sentence of no less than one and no
> > more than three blots, forgivable if possible. I
> > I'm also sorry about being late on the Promotor's report. I expect to
> > publish it in the next few days. I decline to point a finger at myself for
> > this offense, as the report is less that a week overdue, but someone else
> > can if they want to.
> > -Aris

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

In the full-text-of-proposals section, proposal 8085's title is incorrect.

Also, you missed the proposal Kenyon submitted here: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg32486.html

Otherwise, it looks good to me!

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 10, 2018 6:47 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> This is a draft report. Corrections are appreciated, as always. I have
> marked the proposals that are being distributed a second time A,
>
> as noted in the key. This identifies the distribution; the proposal is
> still the same and thus has the same ID. The distribution-qualified
> form should be useful for Assessor tallies, and probably not much
> else.
>
> -Aris
>
> --
>
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
> options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
> conditional votes).
>
> ID Author(s) AI Title
>
> 
>
> 8077A* twg 3.0 Patchy McPatchface
> 8078A* twg 2.0 From each according to eir means
> 8079A* twg 2.0 From each according to eir means v2
> 8080A* Aris 2.0 From each according to eir means v3
> 8081A* Aris, G., twg 3.0 Point Installation Act v2
> 8082* twg 1.0 Gamestate correction for July 2018
> 8083* G. 3.0 quorum fixes
> 8084* Trigon 1.0 Needs more Competition
> 8085* Kenyon, twg 2.0 Plain Old Bribery, Mk. II
> 8086* Trigon, [1] 1.0 Revamping movement v3.1
> 8087* Aris 1.0 Even Freer Proposals
>
> The proposal pool is currently empty.
>
> [1] twg, Aris, G., Corona
>
> Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
>
> + : By publishing this report, I pend the marked proposal.
>
> A : Distribution identifier for a second distribution.
>
>
> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>
> //
> ID: 8077
> Title: Patchy McPatchface
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: twg
> Co-author(s):
>
> Amend rule 478, "Fora", by replacing "may change" with "CAN change".
>
> Amend rule 1789, "Cantus Cygneus", by replacing every occurrence of
> "shall" with "SHALL".
>
> //
> ID: 8078
> Title: From each according to eir means
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: twg
> Co-author(s):
>
> [ This is an attempt at a reset/rebalance that strikes a middle ground between
> completely erasing everyone's progress and leaving the current exponentially-
> growing inequality in place. I'm not positive that I struck the right balance
> but even if it's rejected it can be a starting point for discussion. ]
>
> For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that facility
> to its owner.
>
> For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that zombie to
> its owner.
>
> Decrease the coin balance of each player to the square root (rounded up to the
> next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before this sentence
> took effect.
>
> //
> ID: 8079
> Title: From each according to eir means v2
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: twg
> Co-author(s):
>
> [An alternative algorithm which may be slightly preferable: Quarter
> the coin balances instead of square-rooting them.]
>
> If the votes on the proposal titled "From each according to eir
> means" authored by twg are such that it has been or will undoubtedly
> be ADOPTED, then this proposal has no effect.
>
> For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
> facility to its owner.
>
> For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
> zombie to its owner.
>
> Decrease the coin balance of each player to one-quarter (rounded up to
> the next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before
> this sentence took effect.
>
> //
> ID: 8080
> Title: From each according to eir means v3
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: Aris
> Co-author(s): twg
>
> If the votes on any proposal, the title of which contains "From each",
> authored by twg, are such that it has been or will undoubtedly
> be ADOPTED, then this proposal has no effect.
>
> For each facility owned by a player, transfer all c

DIS: Re: BUS: [Promotor] Pool Cleanup

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Sorry. I did mean to go over these again but haven't got around to it yet.

If I were to resubmit them they would probably have slightly amended text 
anyway.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 10, 2018 5:41 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> As Promotor, I remove the following proposals from the proposal pool.
>
> ID Author(s) AI Title
>
> -
>
> pp1 twg, Trigon 2.0 This planet is too chilly
> pp2 twg 2.1 Something to use paper for

DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Even Freer Proposals

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Yeah, even worse, I've found myself panicking because I _haven't_ counted the 
proposals I'm pending and can't remember how many I have left. (This was 
another reason for submitting things via Kenyon.)

I would vote FOR this in its current state, but I would prefer it if the class 
of the crime were lowered slightly (to 2 or 3), since the criterion for 
determining whether someone is guilty is subjective.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 10, 2018 6:17 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> I submit and pend the following proposal. This should be seen more as
> an implementation tweak than anything else; I've noticed myself
> counting the proposals I'm pending, even though I know they all
> deserve to be distributed. I've considered removing the idea of
> pending altogether, but it's still useful as a flag mechanism to see
> if something comes up at the last minute.
>
> -Aris
>
> 
>
> Title: Even Freer Proposals
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: Aris
> Co-authors:
>
> Change Rule 2445, "How to Pend a Proposal", to read in full:
>
> Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
> proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or
> "not pending" (default).
>
> Any player CAN flip a specified proposal's imminence to "pending"
> by announcement. A player SHALL NOT submit and/or pend proposals that are
> collectively unreasonable and excessive (hereafter excess proposals);
> doing so constitutes the Class-4 Crime of Excess Legislation. The Promotor
> CAN remove any excess proposal from the pool.

DIS: Re: BUS: Case Assignment Request

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

If you wait another ~24 hours to assign a judgement, the last Treasuror report 
will self-ratify your facilities into existence regardless of the outcome of 
the case, and you won't have a conflict of interest any more.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 12, 2018 7:20 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> I favor CFJ 3653, and intend to assign it to myself Without 3 Objections. I
> note that I have a conflict of interest, in that I possess (or possessed)
> land affected by the outcome of the case. I won't hold objections on the
> basis against anyone; I just want the matter to be resolved. I'm not
> interested in CFJ 3652.
>
> -Aris

DIS: Fw: Re: BUS: Case Assignment Request

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

This time, not only did I not get the confirmation email, but it hasn't shown 
up on mail-archive.com either... Hmm. Please confirm if you receive this via 
DIS (I'm sending it directly to Aris as well).

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 12, 2018 8:08 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> If you wait another ~24 hours to assign a judgement, the last Treasuror 
> report will self-ratify your facilities into existence regardless of the 
> outcome of the case, and you won't have a conflict of interest any more.
>
> -twg
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On August 12, 2018 7:20 AM, Aris Merchant thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> > I favor CFJ 3653, and intend to assign it to myself Without 3 Objections. I
> > note that I have a conflict of interest, in that I possess (or possessed)
> > land affected by the outcome of the case. I won't hold objections on the
> > basis against anyone; I just want the matter to be resolved. I'm not
> > interested in CFJ 3652.
> > -Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Distribution of Proposals 8077A-8088

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I noticed that too. I rather suspect that, in a previous iteration of the 
rules, gratuitous arguments were something the rules said people COULD submit; 
and the old-timers are all used to that system and send them to the public 
forum by force of habit.

I don't have any arguments to add myself. I was going to say all the things you 
did but you got there first.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 13, 2018 5:14 PM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> Given that everyone seems to inexplicably submit these to BUS...
>
> -Aris
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:12 AM Aris Merchant <
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 2:06 AM Alex Smith ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 2018-08-13 at 01:44 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > >
> > > > I CFJ on the following: 8077a-8081a are distributed proposals.
> > > > I bar Aris.
> > >
> > > Gratuitous:
> > > We used to have a rule forcing numbers to be allocated sequentially,
> > > but it was repealed. Is there any precedent on whether such a repeal
> > > generally invalidates the requirements given in a rule, or whether a
> > > rule becomes redundant when its requirements become game custom?
> > > We /also/ used to have a rule allowing out-of-sequence or unusual
> > > numbers to be allocated in unusual situations. IIRC it's actually been
> > > used, too. (I vaguely remember that it was a consequence of a large
> > > number of spam something, perhaps CFJs.) I'm not sure whether the
> > > numbers in question ended up in the historical record.
> > > I also believe that, based on the wording of the message, the Promotor
> > > attempted to re-distribute proposals that had already been distributed
> > > (as opposed to distributing a duplicate of the original proposal). In
> > > such a case, the proposal's number would remain the same (the ID number
> > > is attached to the proposal, not the distribution). That said,
> > > distributing the same proposal twice is likely to be impossible; I
> > > can't see any way to put a distributed proposal back into the Proposal
> > > Pool, and rule 1607 has a CAN for distributing proposals in the Pool
> > > (which likely puts a CAN NOT on distributing proposals not in the Pool
> > > via rule 2125). Perhaps doing so would be possible via self-
> > > ratification (presumably the minimal gamestate change required to cause
> > > a nonexistent switch to have a given value causes that switch to exist
> > > via the smallest possible change, which in this case would be to return
> > > the proposal to the Pool).
> > > In any case, I think the statement of the CFJ is trivially FALSE
> > > because, based on the legend underneath the distribution in question,
> > > the A in "8077A*" doesn't seem to be any more part of the ID number
> > > than the asterisk is. (Or to put it a different way, the Promotor is
> > > tracking distributions/decisions and distributed proposals separately.
> > > Until now, there hasn't been a reason to differentiate, but a proposal
> > > and a decision are different entities and so some sort of
> > > differentiation makes sense.)
> > > --
> >
> > Arguments:
> > I agree with ais253 about the intent behind the A. All parties should read
> > the header that I put on the draft, which explains it in more detail, as
> > well as the note in the key. The proposal retains the same number it was
> > originally given. My numbering system is actually based on the traditional
> > assignment of A to appeals, although it has different semantics. I any
> > case, I clearly didn't do anything to the formal numbering of the
> > proposals. In fact, this is the reason for the discrepancy noted by G.: the
> > full text concerns the proposal, not the distribution, and is numbered
> > accordingly. The CFJ is clearly FALSE, and could probably be retracted.
> > Also, I for the Nth time point out that the numbers are assigned after
> > distribution, and very much wish people would stop attempting toinvalidate 
> > distributions because of their numbering.
> > As an aside, the Promotor definitely has the power to add proposals back to
> > the pool, by Rule 2350, and I did so in a message I'm not in a position to
> > find right now.
> > -Aris
> >
> > >

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal vote

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

In hindsight, I should have phrased that to say "the most recent Agoran 
Decisions to adopt each of proposals 8077-8081". Oh well.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 13, 2018 8:15 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I vote FOR proposal 8085.

Re: DIS: Land Win Condition

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I have been drafting a proto. I haven't finished it yet, but this is the main 
part:

//
Enact a rule "Land Prestige", of power 2.0, with the following text:

  Land Prestige is an integer person switch tracked by the Herald.
[ Not sure if the Herald is the right person to track this; the
  Cartographor might work as well, or possibly a completely new
  officer (but that seems excessive).
]

  To "award a person N Land Prestige" is to increase eir Land
  Prestige by N. To "revoke N Land Prestige from a person" is to
  decrease eir Land Prestige by N.

  If a rule provides a mechanism for a person to "qualify for N
  Land Prestige", then a person is awarded N Land Prestige if and
  when e begins to qualify for that amount, and N Land Prestige is
  revoked from em if and when e ceases to qualify for that amount.
[ The idea is that there will be a selection of new facilities that
  each cause the owner to qualify for a certain amount of prestige,
  based on their rank, the number of identical facilities they are
  connected to (less is better, to encourage variety and smaller
  contiguous areas of colour), and so forth. I haven't finished
  writing these up, though.
  I think I got the phrasing in this paragraph right (after much
  rewriting) but would appreciate input from someone more experienced.
]

  Players are ENCOURAGED, upon performing an action that changes
  the Land Prestige of any person, to state the new values of
  Land Prestige.

  Noble Rank is a person switch, tracked by the Herald, with
  possible values as defined below. A person's Noble Rank is:
- "Grand Duke" if e is a player and eir Land Prestige is at
  least 250 and greater than any other player's;
- otherwise, "Duke", if eir Land Prestige is at least 250;
- otherwise, "Marquis", if eir Land Prestige is at least 100;
- otherwise, "Earl", if eir Land Prestige is at least 30;
- otherwise, "Viscount", if eir Land Prestige is at least 5;
- otherwise, "Baron" (the default).

  An "X", where X is a valid Noble Rank, is a person whose Noble
  Rank is X. Changes to Noble Rank other than those directly
  caused by changes to Land Prestige are secured.

  The Grand Duke CAN, if there are at least 4 Dukes, Declare a
  Monarchy. This causes em to win the game. Then, all Land Units
  belonging to em are transferred to Agora; eir Land Prestige
  switch is set to 0; and [some other temporary benefit?]
[ This means some degree of cooperation is required, but feels a bit
  arbitrary. I'm open to suggestions. Of course, some of the other
  facilities may also require cooperation to maximise their prestige.
]

//

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 19, 2018 6:19 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> I probably don't have time to write the proposal myself, but we
> clearly need a win condition for land if we're going to encourage
> people to use it. G.'s idea sounded very interesting, as did eir
> earlier three asset model. Does anyone else have any ideas?
>
> -Aris

DIS: Re: BUS: Honor Where Honor is Due

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I suppose I could do the second one for you via Kenyon, but that's a bit 
exploitative of the zombie rules, even for me.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 19, 2018 6:24 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> Notice of Honor:
> -1 to Aris, for making many errors in the last PDP
> +1 to Trigon, for having eir proposal delayed after a seemingly
> endless series of other problems and complaints
>
> I'd also do twg, but a) I can only do one a week; b) e's already
> Shogun; and c) none of eir proposals were actually delayed. However,
> twg, I'm very sorry for inconveniencing you as well.
>
> -Aris

DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Humiliating Public Reminder to Vote in Proposals 8077-8085 and 8087-8088

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Pardon me; this should read "The most recent distributions of proposals 
8077-8088", though I don't think it makes any difference what I say as long as 
the intent is clear.

I'm starting to think this second-distribution thing is more trouble than it's 
worth...

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 19, 2018 8:35 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> Blah blah blah, you know the drill. Proposals 8077-8088, except proposal 8086
> (which apparently doesn't exist), are one or two votes short of quorum and the
> following slackers haven't voted on them yet:
>
> ATMunn, Corona, CuddleBeam, G. (except proposal 8085), omd, PSS, V.J. Rada,
> Gaelan, nichdel, o, Ouri, pokes, Quazie, Telnaior and 天火狐.
>
> I am very disappointed in you all. Look, this is my disappointed face: >:-|
>
> The new deadline for votes is Saturday, August 25, 1:44 AM UTC.
>
> -twg

Re: DIS: Land Win Condition

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

This was actually intentional - I reasoned that there might be occasions when 
we'd want to award a certain amount of prestige permanently (or at least until 
the recipient won via prestige) for some achievement or service. For example, 
awarding a token amount (say 1) to each officer at Payday.

Of course, I suppose we could always remove the definition as a switch for now, 
for simplicity, and re-add it in the event that such an occasion does arise.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 20, 2018 3:10 AM, Alex Smith  wrote:

> On Sun, 2018-08-19 at 20:29 +0000, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> > I have been drafting a proto. I haven't finished it yet, but this is
> > the main part:
>
> The switch-based wording you have here means that it's possible to have
> persistent prestige changes that aren't tied to any facilities (and
> there will probably be some way that the two end up out of sync0.
>
> If you don't want that, it'd be much simpler to have it as a
> continuously calculated value rather than a switch; "a player's Land
> Prestige is the total Prestigiousness of all facilities e owns" or the
> like is enough.
>
> --
>
> ais523

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8077A-8088

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Thank you! However, your attempt to vote PRESENT on proposal 8086 is 
INEFFECTIVE because proposal 8086 never existed due to a mistake in a Promotor 
report. Its replacement is proposal 8089.

Quorum update:

ID Voting endsTitleUnder quorum

8077A  25/08 1:44 AM  Patchy McPatchface   2 votes
8078A  25/08 1:44 AM  From each according to eir means 2 votes
8079A  25/08 1:44 AM  From each according to eir means v2  2 votes
8080A  25/08 1:44 AM  From each according to eir means v3  2 votes
8081A  25/08 1:44 AM  Point Installation Act v21 vote
8082   25/08 1:44 AM  Gamestate correction for July 2018   1 vote
8083   25/08 1:44 AM  quorum fixes 1 vote
8084   25/08 1:44 AM  Needs more Competition   1 vote
8085   25/08 1:44 AM  Plain Old Bribery, Mk. II1 vote
8087   25/08 1:44 AM  Even Freer Proposals v2  2 votes
8088   25/08 1:44 AM  Return of the Zombie Loopholes   1 votes
8089&  26/08 6:19 AM  Revamping movement v3.2  5 votes

A indicates a second distribution.
& indicates eligibility for the voting period to be extended by 7 days in the 
event of a quorum failure.

Trigon - your zombie can still vote in all of these.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 23, 2018 1:58 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Ok fine. I vote:
>
> > 8081A* Aris, G., twg 3.0 Point Installation Act v2
>
> FOR
>
> > 8082* twg 1.0 Gamestate correction for July 2018
>
> PRESENT (missed the discussion here)
>
> > 8083* G. 3.0 quorum fixes
>
> FOR
>
> > 8084* Trigon 1.0 Needs more Competition
>
> AGAINST (disagree here)
>
> > 8086* Trigon, [1] 1.0 Revamping movement v3.1
>
> PRESENT
>
> > 8087* Aris 1.0 Even Freer Proposals v2
>
> no vote. I'm against this - it really bugs me when people pend my
> proposals without asking (it has happened several times).
>
> > 8088* Kenyon, twg 1.0 Return of the Zombie Loopholes
>
> FOR.

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8077A-8088

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Thank you! However, your attempt to vote PRESENT on proposal 8086 is 
INEFFECTIVE because proposal 8086 never existed due to a mistake in a Promotor 
report. Its replacement is proposal 8089.

Quorum update:

ID Voting endsTitleUnder quorum

8077A  25/08 1:44 AM  Patchy McPatchface   2 votes
8078A  25/08 1:44 AM  From each according to eir means 2 votes
8079A  25/08 1:44 AM  From each according to eir means v2  2 votes
8080A  25/08 1:44 AM  From each according to eir means v3  2 votes
8081A  25/08 1:44 AM  Point Installation Act v21 vote
8082   25/08 1:44 AM  Gamestate correction for July 2018   1 vote
8083   25/08 1:44 AM  quorum fixes 1 vote
8084   25/08 1:44 AM  Needs more Competition   1 vote
8085   25/08 1:44 AM  Plain Old Bribery, Mk. II1 vote
8087   25/08 1:44 AM  Even Freer Proposals v2  2 votes
8088   25/08 1:44 AM  Return of the Zombie Loopholes   1 votes
8089&  26/08 6:19 AM  Revamping movement v3.2  5 votes

A indicates a second distribution.
& indicates eligibility for the voting period to be extended by 7 days in the 
event of a quorum failure.

Trigon - your zombie can still vote in all of these.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 23, 2018 1:58 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Ok fine. I vote:
>
> > 8081A* Aris, G., twg 3.0 Point Installation Act v2
>
> FOR
>
> > 8082* twg 1.0 Gamestate correction for July 2018
>
> PRESENT (missed the discussion here)
>
> > 8083* G. 3.0 quorum fixes
>
> FOR
>
> > 8084* Trigon 1.0 Needs more Competition
>
> AGAINST (disagree here)
>
> > 8086* Trigon, [1] 1.0 Revamping movement v3.1
>
> PRESENT
>
> > 8087* Aris 1.0 Even Freer Proposals v2
>
> no vote. I'm against this - it really bugs me when people pend my
> proposals without asking (it has happened several times).
>
> > 8088* Kenyon, twg 1.0 Return of the Zombie Loopholes
>
> FOR.

Re: DIS: Hello

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

That seems like a precedent with an interesting story behind it. What happened?

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 25, 2018 5:47 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM Alex Smith ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2018-08-24 at 22:30 -0700, Aris Merchant wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 10:28 PM windlessq hickory zan...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > How do I join the game
> > >
> > > You might have just done so. To be absolutely sure, send a message to
> > > agora-business with the text “I register.”, and sign with your
> > > nickname if you have one you want to be called by. Also, welcome to
> > > the game!
> >
> > My guess is that this doesn't work as a registration message; precedent
> > is that our current registration standard requires that the message
> > carries something to indicate when the registration is supposed to
> > happen.
> > Asking about how to register doesn't necessarily imply you want to
> > register immediately; you might ask how to register if you plan to
> > register in the future.
> > (A while back I started simply taking actions to a-b that would have
> > required me to be a player, but that was ruled to not be registration,
> > I think for this same reason. The message here is less blatant.)
> > --
> > ais523
>
> > Our current precedent also indicates that publicly announcing the
>
> deployment of cuttlefish can cause registration. I disagree with that one,
> actually.
>
> -Aris

Re: DIS: Hello

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

There's a far more straightforward argument for this not working as a 
registration message: it was sent to agora-discussion, which is not a public 
forum. (Though I admit I did check the most recent Registrar report on 
agora-official to check that G. hadn't sneakily reclassified it as a public 
forum...)

Rule 869/44:
  An Unregistered person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
  prevented by the rules) register by publishing a message that
  indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e
  intends to become a player at that time.

Rule 478/34:
  A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
  all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
  public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
  message is considered a public message in its own right. A person
  "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message.

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 25, 2018 5:36 AM, Alex Smith  wrote:

> On Fri, 2018-08-24 at 22:30 -0700, Aris Merchant wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 10:28 PM windlessq hickory zan...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
> >
> > > How do I join the game
> >
> > You might have just done so. To be absolutely sure, send a message to
> > agora-business with the text “I register.”, and sign with your
> > nickname if you have one you want to be called by. Also, welcome to
> > the game!
>
> My guess is that this doesn't work as a registration message; precedent
> is that our current registration standard requires that the message
> carries something to indicate when the registration is supposed to
> happen.
>
> Asking about how to register doesn't necessarily imply you want to
> register immediately; you might ask how to register if you plan to
> register in the future.
>
> (A while back I started simply taking actions to a-b that would have
> required me to be a player, but that was ruled to not be registration,
> I think for this same reason. The message here is less blatant.)
>
> --
>
> ais523

DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8077-8085, 8088 and 8087

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Actually, upon re-reading rule 2350/9, I think my statement that proposals 
can't be distributed three times may be incorrect. It would make more sense if 
the word "once" in the rule meant a proposal could only be redistributed once 
each time it failed quorum (which is eminently sensible - imagine if there were 
two simultaneous votes on the same proposal and they had different results!), 
not that it could only be redistributed once ever.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 25, 2018 10:45 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> I resolve the most recent Agoran Decisions to adopt each of Proposals
> 8077-8081 as described below.
>
> I resolve the Agoran Decisions to adopt each of Proposals 8082-8085 as
> described below.
>
> I resolve the Agoran Decisions to adopt Proposals 8088 and 8087, in that
> order, as described below.
>
> (The purpose of resolving the last two proposals out of order is to
> minimise quorum for the next distribution. This is not part of a scam.)
>
> -twg
>
> SUMMARY
>
> ==
>
> ID Author(s) Title Result
>
> 
>
> 8077A twg Patchy McPatchface FAILED QUORUM
> 8078A twg From each according to eir means FAILED QUORUM
> 8079A twg From each according to eir means v2 FAILED QUORUM
> 8080A Aris, twg From each according to eir means v3 FAILED QUORUM
> 8081A Aris, G., twg Point Installation Act v2 FAILED QUORUM
> 8082 twg Gamestate correction for July 2018 FAILED QUORUM
> 8083 G. quorum fixes FAILED QUORUM
> 8084 Trigon Needs more Competition FAILED QUORUM
> 8085 Kenyon, twg Plain Old Bribery, Mk. II FAILED QUORUM
> 8088 Kenyon, twg Return of the Zombie Loopholes FAILED QUORUM
> 8087 Aris Even Freer Proposals v2 FAILED QUORUM
>
> An "A" in the ID column indicates that the proposal has been distributed
> twice. (Note that proposals CANNOT be distributed three times.)
>
> TALLY OF VOTES
>
> =
>
> ++++++++++++
> |8077|8078|8079|8080|8081|8082|8083|8084|8085|8088|8087|
> +--++++++++++++
> |Aris | AA | AA | P | FF | FF | FF | FF | FF | AA | FF | FF |
> |G. | | | | | F | P | F | A | F | F | |
> |Murphy | F | F | F | F | P | P | F | P | F | F | F |
> |Trigon | P | A | F | A | F | F | F | F | P | F | A |
> |twg | F | F | F | F | F | F | F | A | F | F | F |
> +--++++++++++++
> |Kenyon | F | F | F | F | F | F | F | A | F | F | F |
> +--++++++++++++
> |FOR | 3 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 3 | 4 | 7 | 5 |
> |AGAINST | 2 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 1 |
> |AI | 3.0| 2.0| 2.0| 2.0| 3.0| 1.0| 3.0| 1.0| 1.0| 1.0| 1.0|
> |Ballots | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 |
> |Quorum | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 |
> |Resolved |F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|F.Q.|
> +--++++++++++++
> F = FOR; A = AGAINST; P = PRESENT; F.Q. = FAILED QUORUM
>
> Quorum on Agoran Decisions is now 3 except where otherwise specified.

Re: DIS: Come get your rulesets here!

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I've been looking into the possibility of taking over Rulekeepor, in the 
absence of any other willing candidate, and have been looking through your 
ruleset generation system.

One thing I'd like to ask (to everyone, not just you) is whether the inclusion 
of major CFJs in the Full Logical Ruleset is important. Historically, they have 
been listed as annotations to the rules they interpret (as in, for example, the 
two-month-old version at https://agoranomic.org/ruleset/flr.txt), but your 
version doesn't include them, and rule 1681/21 doesn't require them to be 
included - it just says "any other information which [the Rulekeepor] feels may 
be helpful", and even then it's a SHOULD, not a MUST.

The thing is, I have no idea where to find information about historical CFJs 
other than that two-month-old FLR, and I certainly haven't been keeping track 
of CFJs over the last couple of months. So if they are an integral part of the 
FLR, it's not a job I can reliably take over, at least not yet.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 4, 2018 5:09 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> So I've been on vacation for a while and instead of relaxing like a
> normal person, I decided to make some more up-to-date rulesets.
>
> But not only that.
>
> I couldn't figure out how to install the Haskell code's dependencies so
> I went and rewrote the entire thing in Python.
>
> My hope is that with an easier language to develop with, and with only
> one dependency, it will make the position of Rulekeepor more enticing.
>
> So, uh, yeah.
>
> SHORT LOGICAL RULESET:
> https://github.com/AgoraNomic/ruleset/blob/trigon/slr.txt
>
> FULL LOGICAL RULESET:
> https://github.com/AgoraNomic/ruleset/blob/trigon/flr.txt
>
> I do not intend to deputise for Rulekeepor. Rulekeepor and Cartographor
> simultaneously would be far too much work for me to handle, especially
> with summer ending soon.
>
> But for the time being, these are at least a little more up-to-date.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Also, there are likely a good few mistakes. Please point them out.
>
> 
>
> Trigon

Re: DIS: Come get your rulesets here!

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I'm not sure - I haven't actually looked at the code or tried to install 
anything yet, I'm still in the "this is a thing that might happen" stage - but 
anything you can tell me is useful. The format of the YAML files seems pretty 
self-explanatory, though.

I don't know a great deal of Python and probably wouldn't know where to start 
trying to code in annotations myself, but if you are willing to do that then I 
can try to find time to go over the last couple of months of agora-business and 
list the recent CFJs.

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 25, 2018 10:29 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> Oh, also, would you like me to add some documentation? Figuring out Alexis' 
> system was a bit of a pain for me.
>
> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 16:27 Reuben Staley  wrote:
>
>> I didn't include them because I was afraid that there would be more CFJs I 
>> should add to the list that someone would get mad at me for not including. 
>> If you would like to take the office of Rulekeepor, I can write some code to 
>> include annotations and you can deal with adding the new ones because I'm 
>> sure as heck not knowledgeable enough about CFJs to do so.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 16:22 Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>>
>>> I've been looking into the possibility of taking over Rulekeepor, in the 
>>> absence of any other willing candidate, and have been looking through your 
>>> ruleset generation system.
>>>
>>> One thing I'd like to ask (to everyone, not just you) is whether the 
>>> inclusion of major CFJs in the Full Logical Ruleset is important. 
>>> Historically, they have been listed as annotations to the rules they 
>>> interpret (as in, for example, the two-month-old version at 
>>> https://agoranomic.org/ruleset/flr.txt), but your version doesn't include 
>>> them, and rule 1681/21 doesn't require them to be included - it just says 
>>> "any other information which [the Rulekeepor] feels may be helpful", and 
>>> even then it's a SHOULD, not a MUST.
>>>
>>> The thing is, I have no idea where to find information about historical 
>>> CFJs other than that two-month-old FLR, and I certainly haven't been 
>>> keeping track of CFJs over the last couple of months. So if they are an 
>>> integral part of the FLR, it's not a job I can reliably take over, at least 
>>> not yet.
>>>
>>> -twg
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>> On August 4, 2018 5:09 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I've been on vacation for a while and instead of relaxing like a
>>>> normal person, I decided to make some more up-to-date rulesets.
>>>>
>>>> But not only that.
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't figure out how to install the Haskell code's dependencies so
>>>> I went and rewrote the entire thing in Python.
>>>>
>>>> My hope is that with an easier language to develop with, and with only
>>>> one dependency, it will make the position of Rulekeepor more enticing.
>>>>
>>>> So, uh, yeah.
>>>>
>>>> SHORT LOGICAL RULESET:
>>>> https://github.com/AgoraNomic/ruleset/blob/trigon/slr.txt
>>>>
>>>> FULL LOGICAL RULESET:
>>>> https://github.com/AgoraNomic/ruleset/blob/trigon/flr.txt
>>>>
>>>> I do not intend to deputise for Rulekeepor. Rulekeepor and Cartographor
>>>> simultaneously would be far too much work for me to handle, especially
>>>> with summer ending soon.
>>>>
>>>> But for the time being, these are at least a little more up-to-date.
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy.
>>>>
>>>> Also, there are likely a good few mistakes. Please point them out.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Trigon

DIS: Re: BUS: There's always something we miss

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Good point! I do think that argument holds water, actually. Fortunately, my 
patch works whether or not the rule actually defines incense as an asset.

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 26, 2018 1:22 AM, D Margaux  wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I Call for Judgement (barring twg) on the following statement: “D. Margaux 
> currently has in eir possession 5 incense.”
>
> Argument in favor:  R2499 does state quite clearly that, as part of the 
> Welcome Package, “Agora creates ... the ... /assets/” of “5 incense” in the 
> welcomed Player’s possession. So I believe that Rule does establish that 
> incense is an asset (a pointless one, admittedly), and awards it as part of a 
> Welcome Package, as its text straightforwardly says. Certainly, it is absurd 
> to create an asset that has no useful purpose and that is referenced nowhere 
> else in the Rules, but, under R217, such an absurdity affords no reason to 
> ignore the text of R2499.
>
> (Am I doing this right? :-) )
>
> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 6:34 PM Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>
>> I submit and pend the following proposal:
>>
>> //
>> Title: Yet Another Economics Patch
>> Adoption index: 1.0
>> Author: twg
>>
>> Amend rule 2499, "Welcome Packages", by removing the list item
>> "5 incense" and renumbering the other list items appropriately.
>>
>> Destroy all incense.
>>
>> //
>>
>> I don't _think_ this has a mechanical effect, because incense isn't
>> explicitly defined anywhere any more (so it's not technically an
>> asset, so D. Margaux can't have been erroneously given any), but
>> there's no point keeping it around in the ruleset to confuse people.
>>
>> -twg

Re: DIS: Come get your rulesets here!

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

OK, this was less arduous than expected - I've written (and/or borrowed from 
Murphy's Arbitor reports) summaries for the important CFJs since G. last 
updated the FLR. Does anyone disagree with these summaries, think one of them 
is unnecessary to include in the FLR, or conversely think another CFJ _is_ 
necessary to include in the FLR?


Rule 478
Fora

CFJ 3642 (called Jun 15, 2018):
  Regardless of CFJ 1314, a message has not been sent via a public forum
  if its non-reception by some persons who arranged to receive it has
  affected which game actions they chose to take or not to take.


Rule 683
Voting on Agoran Decisions

CFJ 3647 (called Jun 24, 2018):
  To attempt to "vote in the same way as another player" is ambiguous,
  because it may refer to the other player's vote at the time of the
  message (an unconditional vote) or at the time of resolution (a
  conditional vote).


Rule 2168
Extending the voting period

CFJ 3644 (called Jun 18, 2018):
  Players can't guarantee actual humiliation, so an indication that
  humiliation might occur is sufficient to fulfill the requirement that
  a reminder be humiliating.


Rule 1551
Ratification

CFJ 3643 (called Jun 18, 2018):
  A disclaimer attached to a public document does not prevent its
  ratification.


Rule 2550
Bidding

CFJ 3633 (called Apr 5, 2018):
  Saying "x on y", where x is an integer and y is a number corresponding
  to an ongoing auction, is a sufficiently clear announcement of a bid.



-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 26, 2018 5:23 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Also for recent stuff, the "recently-resolved cases" sections of the court 
> gazette
> has summaries that can be grabbed for annotations.
>
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> > I'm ~a year behind in updating (and have been stuck midway in porting it
> > to Agoranomic.org since spring) but old CFJs are here:
> > https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/
> > But updating those in the FLR is definitely an optional extra. Very much
> > optional.
> > On Sat, 25 Aug 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> >
> > > I've been looking into the possibility of taking over Rulekeepor, in the 
> > > absence of any other willing candidate, and have been looking through 
> > > your ruleset generation system.
> > > One thing I'd like to ask (to everyone, not just you) is whether the 
> > > inclusion of major CFJs in the Full Logical Ruleset is important. 
> > > Historically, they have been listed as annotations to the rules they 
> > > interpret (as in, for example, the two-month-old version at 
> > > https://agoranomic.org/ruleset/flr.txt), but your version doesn't include 
> > > them, and rule 1681/21 doesn't require them to be included - it just says 
> > > "any other information which [the Rulekeepor] feels may be helpful", and 
> > > even then it's a SHOULD, not a MUST.
> > > The thing is, I have no idea where to find information about historical 
> > > CFJs other than that two-month-old FLR, and I certainly haven't been 
> > > keeping track of CFJs over the last couple of months. So if they are an 
> > > integral part of the FLR, it's not a job I can reliably take over, at 
> > > least not yet.
> > > -twg
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > On August 4, 2018 5:09 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > So I've been on vacation for a while and instead of relaxing like a
> > > > normal person, I decided to make some more up-to-date rulesets.
> > > > But not only that.
> > > > I couldn't figure out how to install the Haskell code's dependencies so
> > > > I went and rewrote the entire thing in Python.
> > > > My hope is that with an easier language to develop with, and with only
> > > > one dependency, it will make the position of Rulekeepor more enticing.
> > > > So, uh, yeah.
> > > > SHORT LOGICAL RULESET:
> > > > https://github.com/AgoraNomic/ruleset/blob/trigon/slr.txt
> > > > FULL LOGICAL RULESET:
> > > > https://github.com/AgoraNomic/ruleset/blob/trigon/flr.txt
> > > > I do not intend to deputise for Rulekeepor. Rulekeepor and Cartographor
> > > > simultaneously would be far too much work for me to handle, especially
> > > > with summer ending soon.
> > > > But for the time being, these are at least a little more up-to-date.
> > > > Enjoy.
> > > > Also, there are likely a good few mistakes. Please point them out.
> > > >
> > > > Trigon

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposal 8089

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Thank you everyone, we do now have enough votes to pass quorum.

However, I will hold off on actually resolving the decision until Aris has done 
the next distribution, because otherwise quorum for _that_ distribution will 
rise again. And I think we've had more than enough quorum troubles recently.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 26, 2018 6:09 PM, Edward Murphy  wrote:

> > 8089* Trigon, [1] 1.0 Revamping movement v3.2
> PRESENT

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposal 8089

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

You're absolutely right - so we need one more vote.

I was misled by CFJ 1652, which I read in passing when I was going through the 
FLR a few days ago...

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 27, 2018 2:50 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Remember not to count D Margaux's vote as e was not a player
> when the decision was distributed (R683).
>
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> > Thank you everyone, we do now have enough votes to pass quorum.
> > However, I will hold off on actually resolving the decision until Aris has 
> > done the next distribution, because otherwise quorum for that distribution 
> > will rise again. And I think we've had more than enough quorum troubles 
> > recently.
> > -twg
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On August 26, 2018 6:09 PM, Edward Murphy emurph...@zoho.com wrote:
> >
> > > > 8089* Trigon, [1] 1.0 Revamping movement v3.2
> > > > PRESENT

Re: DIS: Postponements

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

NttPF!!

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 30, 2018 7:58 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> I bid 1 more than the most recent bid on the last auction I bid on.
> Everyone, I’m sorry about being late at, well, everything. I’ve been
> extraordinarily busy. The game seems to be moving pretty slowly in general,
> so I hope I’m not causing too much inconvenience. I’ll catch up over the
> coming weekend.
>
> Apologetically Yours,
> Aris

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Weekly report: Old censer found down back of sofa, incense reintroduced to economy

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Unfortunately, you only possess 4 steel. If I have my order of operations 
correct, your loom is destroyed due to lack of upkeep paid, and you now have 1 
steel remaining.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 31, 2018 9:00 PM, Corona  wrote:

> (Sorry for neglecting my duties. Agora's starting to bore me, I guess)
> I pay upkeep as follows, if my facilities' upkeep costs haven't changed
> since the last time I paid upkeep:
>
> 3 steel for refinery at (0,2)
> 2 lumber for mine at (2,2)
> 2 stones for orchard at (2,1)
> 2 lumber for mine at (2,-1)
> 2 stones for orchard at (2,-2)
> 3 steel for loom at (3,1)
> 1 lumber and 1 stone for farm at (1, -2)
> 2 lumber for orchard at (-2,0)
> 2 stones for mine at (-3,0)
> 4 stones for orchard at (-4,0)
> 4 stones for orchard at (-5,0)
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 6:59 PM Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
>
> > UNREFINABLE CURRENCIES
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Rules summary:
> >
> > -   Coins are obtained every month at Payday and used to buy zombies and
> > Land Units at auctions.
> >
> > -   Stones are obtained from Mines and used to build, upgrade and maintain
> > most Production Facilities.
> >
> > -   Apples are obtained from Orchards and used to move around the map and
> > change the colour of Land Units.
> >
> > -   Corn is obtained from Farms and used for the same actions as Apples,
> > but at a cheaper rate.
> >
> > -   Incense is useless and exists only due to a ruleset bug.
> >
> >  ++--++--+--+--++---+
> >  ||Coins ||Stones|Apples| Corn ||Incense|
> >
> >
> >
> > +--++--++--+--+--++---+
> > |ATMunn || 94 || 6 | 42 | 3 ||
> > |Aris || 132 || 5 | 40 | 12 ||
> > |Corona || 153 || 64 | 129 | 49 ||
> > |CuddleBeam|| 70 || 11 | 28 | 9 ++---+
> > |D. Margaux|| 10 || 5 | 10 | 0 || 5 |
> > |G. || 435 || 0 | 0 | 0 ++---+
> > |Murphy || 96 || 114 | 174 | 31 ||
> > |omd || 30 || 0 | 10 | 2 ||
> > |PSS || 43 || 5 | 25 | 1 ||
> > |Trigon || 62 || 2 | 19 | 18 ||
> > |twg || 396 || 35 | 121 | 4 ||
> > |V.J. Rada || 115 || 10 | 80 | 3 ||
> > +--++--++--+--+--++
> > |Gaelan || 67 || 14 | 38 | 2 ||
> > |Kenyon || 0 || 0 | 0 | 0 ||
> > |nichdel || 30 || 0 | 15 | 0 ||
> > |o || 20 || 0 | 10 | 0 ||
> > |Ouri || 10 || 0 | 5 | 0 ||
> > |pokes || 20 || 0 | 10 | 0 ||
> > |Quazie || 20 || 0 | 10 | 0 ||
> > |Telnaior || 10 || 0 | 5 | 0 ||
> > |天火狐 || 10 || 0 | 5 | 0 ||
> > +--++--++--+--+--++
> > |Agora || 1012 || - | - | - ||
> > +--++--++--+--+--++
> > ||Coins ||Stones|Apples| Corn ||
> > ++--++--+--+--++
> >
> > REFINED AND UNREFINED CURRENCIES
> >
> > =
> >
> > Rules summary:
> >
> > -   Ore is obtained from Mines and converted to Steel using Refineries.
> >
> > -   Steel is used to upgrade Production Facilities and maintain Processing
> > Facilities.
> >
> > -   Lumber is obtained from Orchards and converted to Papers using Mills.
> > It is also used to build, upgrade and maintain most Production
> > Facilities.
> >
> > -   Papers are currently useless.
> >
> > -   Cotton is obtained from Farms and converted to Fabric using Looms.
> >
> > -   Fabric is used to upgrade high-rank Production Facilities.
> >
> >  ++--+--++--+--++--+--++
> >  || Ore  |Steel ||Lumber|Papers||Cotton|Fabric||
> >
> >
> >
> > +--++--+--++--+--++--+--++
> > |ATMunn || 0 | 5 || 7 | 18 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |Aris || 0 | 5 || 5 | 19 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |Corona || 32 | 4 || 27 | 37 || 0 | 233 ||
> > |CuddleBeam|| 4 | 5 || 8 | 14 || 9 | 0 ||
> > |D. Margaux|| 0 | 5 || 5 | 3 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |G. || 0 | 0 || 0 | 0 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |Murphy || 8 | 87 || 56 | 52 || 3 | 38 ||
> > |omd || 0 | 5 || 0 | 4 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |PSS || 0 | 5 || 5 | 9 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |Trigon || 4 | 5 || 0 | 11 || 0 | 50 ||
> > |twg || 8 | 110 || 70 | 21 || 0 | 7 ||
> > |V.J. Rada || 0 | 5 || 10 | 26 || 0 | 0 ||
> > +--++--+--++--+--++--+--++
> > |Gaelan || 6 | 5 || 2 | 14 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |Kenyon || 0 | 0 || 0 | 0 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |nichdel || 0 | 5 || 0 | 6 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |o || 0 | 5 || 0 | 4 || 0 | 0 ||
> > |Ouri || 0 | 

DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Humiliating Public Reminder to Vote on Proposal 8089

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Reminder: We still need one more vote on this before tomorrow morning, since G. 
correctly pointed out that D. Margaux's vote doesn't count.

Trigon, please remember we've established that you have a zombie (Quazie).

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 26, 2018 3:04 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> This time, Proposal
> 8089 has three votes;
> we need seven, please.
>
> Slackers:
> ATMunn, Aris, Corona, CuddleBeam, D. Margaux, Murphy, omd, P.S.S., Trigon,
> V.J. Rada, Gaelan, nichdel, o, Ouri, pokes, Quazie, Telnaior and 天火狐.
>
> Above reminder,
> as rule 2168 says,
> should humiliate.
>
> New voting deadline:
> the second of September,
> 6:19 AM.
>
> -twg

DIS: Re: BUS: End-of-month business

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I don't entirely disagree, but only the Herald can award non-Badge patent 
titles.

I'd love to hear any alternative suggestions you (or anyone else) might have 
for what to do with the surplus currencies.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On September 1, 2018 3:14 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I object to the Badges should be for broader participatory events, This
> is more appropriate for a one-off patent title.
>
> I object to the transfer. If e was unaware if the transfers, e was unaware
> that ever owned those currencies so it's no loss (also I PMed em).
>
> On Sat, 1 Sep 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> > I intend, with Agoran Consent, to award the Badge "Badge of Accidental Loom 
> > Destruction" to myself, Trigon and Corona. I find it an extraordinary 
> > coincidence that three players have managed to accomplish this, completely 
> > independently.
> > I intend, without objection, to transfer all assets in the possession of 
> > the Lost and Found Department to Murphy, since I suspect that Murphy's 
> > failure to pay upkeep for the facilities those assets previously belonged 
> > to is a result of eir being unaware that the facilities were transferred to 
> > em, and doesn't really deserve to be punished to the tune of - if my 
> > calculations are correct - 64 ore, 96 stones, 72 lumber, 72 apples and 80 
> > steel.
> > -twg
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On August 27, 2018 5:01 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> >
> > > I pay the upkeep cost of my orchard at (5, 0): 8 stones.
> > > I pay the upkeep cost of my mine at (-1, 2): 8 lumber.
> > > I pay the upkeep cost of my refinery at (6, -3): 3 steel.
> > > I pay the upkeep cost of my farm at (6, -2): 4 lumber and 4 stones.
> > > As Tailor, I award myself a Grey Ribbon.
> > > -twg

DIS: Re: BUS: Some moves and such

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:48, D Margaux  wrote:
> I cause nichdel pay 3 apples to stake a land claim to (-3, 1) with
> land type Black.
>
> I cause nichdel to transfer the land at (-3, 1) to D. Margaux.
>
> I cause nichdel to pay 1 apple to move to (-2, 1).

These three actions fail; zombies cannot stake land claims.

DIS: Re: BUS: Elections

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Not an awful lot, I'll admit. Late August and September are always quite busy 
for me and I haven't really found time to get around to it. I have all the 
information I need - Trigon did a prototype SLR a while ago, I also have 
summaries of CFJs since the last FLR, and as Assessor I have been keeping 
records of adopted proposals. It's just a matter of updating Trigon's code to 
generate an FLR with all the necessary information, which shouldn't take more 
than a weekend, but I'm not going to _have_ a free weekend until October at 
least.

What I could do, I think, is publish the SLR and then immediately resign as 
Rulekeepor, but I'm not entirely clear whether that would work to relieve me of 
the obligation to publish the FLR too.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, 9 September 2018 21:03, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> > (I do still plan to take over Rulekeepor in the future if nobody finds
> > this objectionable, but I'm not yet prepared to do so.)
>
> No pressure whatsoever, but have you put much work into this so far?
>
> If I come to writing a land overhaul in a few weeks, I'll need to do
> the FLR/SLR first (once, not as a job) since it would be really really
> mistake-prone to try to write a big draft without a current SLR.