Of course I wish I hadn't made such a damn fool of myself in taking such a strong and -- I guess extended would be an appropriate word :) -- response this morning when I chose to write the Master Thesis I never quite got around to during my college years regarding the reasons "they" were wrong and
Lyndersay
Subject: Re: IE7 Feed Rendering Issue
* Why can't I publish my own stylesheet and use these
Microsoft
elements for collation, background, etc. This Microsoft stylesheet
should
be replaceable. *
I would say this is a quite valid question.
Is this capab
On Mar 9, 2006, at 7:51 AM, Sean Lyndersay wrote:
I hope this helps make the reasoning behind IE’s behaviour with
feeds and stylesheets a little less murky.
I don't really have an opinion as to whether this is the ideal
behavior. But there is no doubt whatsoever that that Sean's software
is is not just the My Yahoo box with feed links (title and
link href) to pages contain news stories, but IE7 is rendering content tagsin the browser. I want my psychedelic tie dye background when displaying mycontent tags!-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
TED]
On Behalf Of 'A. Pagaltzis'
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:44 PM
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: IE7 Feed Rendering Issue
* James Yenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 20:55]:
>The only practice I'm advocating is that if I want my feed to be
>formatted in the
* James Yenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 21:10]:
>>* Sean Lyndersay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 17:05]:
>>>I argue that the right thing for a publisher is to serve HTML
>>>when they want control over the look and feel of the entire
>>>set of content, and to serve RSS/Atom when they want t
* James Yenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 20:55]:
>The only practice I'm advocating is that if I want my feed to be
>formatted in the browser as I have declared using
>xml-stylesheet, it should be allowed.
That means your feed will have to be missing UI features that
other feeds have. I hope
NOTE-TO-SELF: Hmmm I'd bet the XML-MVP's would be a good interface into the Microsoft channel. They do have the legal clearance for various activities, and they have already relicensed the XML-MVP library back to MS for redistribution... I'd bet they would be a pretty logical group of folks to
* Why can't I publish my own stylesheet and use these Microsoftelements for collation, background, etc. This Microsoft stylesheet shouldbe replaceable. *
I would say this is a quite valid question.
Is this capability planned and has simply not been implmented at this stage? I realize the look
>* Sean Lyndersay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 17:05]:
>>To build on this idea, there is real value on a consistent view of
>>feeds for the user, helping the user understand what they are looking
>>at, and the context in which they can use the data. In fact, that's
>>part of the promise of
ssage-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of A. Pagaltzis
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:02 AM
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: IE7 Feed Rendering Issue
Hi David,
* M. David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 10:00]:
>On 3/8/06, A. Pagaltzis &
On Mar 9, 2006, at 12:07 PM, James M Snell wrote:
As an alternative, Feed Readers can provide publishers with a way of
specifying optionally applied styling for feeds and entries.. e.g.,
...
...
...
...
Given my opinion on the use of the link element, I suppose I s
Hey Aristotle,
Thanks for the reply!
On 3/9/06, A. Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No, one of them (NetNewsWire) is a desktop application. Like alldesktop aggregators, it throws away any styling information
associated with the feed via XML means. Many of them will evenfilter away (some of)
+1, As an alternative, Feed Readers can provide publishers with a way of
specifying optionally applied styling for feeds and entries.. e.g.,
...
...
...
...
- James
A. Pagaltzis wrote:
>[snip]
>> I argue that the right thing for a publisher is to serve HTML
>> when t
Hi David,
* M. David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 10:00]:
>On 3/8/06, A. Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> * James Yenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-08 20:30]:
>>>I would call IE7 dropping xml-stylesheet directives a data
>>>lose issue.
>>
>> Neither desktop nor online aggregat
* Sean Lyndersay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-09 17:05]:
>To build on this idea, there is real value on a consistent view
>of feeds for the user, helping the user understand what they are
>looking at, and the context in which they can use the data. In
>fact, that's part of the promise of RSS - con
and in both cases, several are doing so right now).
I hope this helps
make the reasoning behind IE's behaviour with feeds and stylesheets a
little less murky.
Thanks,
Sean
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Nesting
Sent: Thursday, Marc
th feeds and stylesheets a
little less murky.
Thanks,
Sean
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Nesting
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: IE7 Feed Rendering Issue
On 3/9/06, Klaus
Nesting
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: IE7 Feed Rendering Issue
On 3/9/06, Klaus Johannes Rusch
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
Unless the "context" is stored with the feed, the
user experience will
be different whe
FYI just added a Browser-based Atom & RSS section to UnderstandingAtom.com (which UnderstandingRSS.com points to as well) Trac instance. Please, by all means, if you have understanding in paricular area of this side of the web feed processing world, add this to an existing section, or somethin
On 3/9/06, Klaus Johannes Rusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
Unless the "context" is stored with the feed, the user experience willbe different when a user follows a link from another page (rendered asWeb page) and later loads the same link again from the bookmarks
(rendered as an XML feed).If this
Lets try that again, to everyone this time:
I think we are both on the same page. I'm glad to see that. I was suddenly beginning to feel like I had missed something somewhere as it seemed that a lot of folks were making comments that seemes off target from there normal perspective.
Regar
> That being said, as I noted in my earlier e-mail, I do agree that this IE behavior change breaks some non-traditional web sites (including some of my own), and that some sort of workaround is going to be needed. <
And thats the key I think we both agree on.
You right about the feed readers i
David Nesting wrote:
So the real question is: How can site authors instruct a web
browser-feed reader hybrid when it should treat an
application/atom+xml document as a web page (via xml-stylesheet) and
when it should treat it as a consumable feed? Perhaps it is
reasonable for these types of
On 3/9/06, M. David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
If, in fact, what you mean by this
*IS* that its the end users choice, then I would tend to agree... as
long as the option exists. That
was, actually, what I was trying to say. You are publishing an XML
feed, not a web page. You are publis
On 3/9/06, David Nesting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 3/9/06, M. David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
If, in fact, what you mean by this
*IS* that its the end users choice, then I would tend to agree... as
long as the option exists. That was, actually, what I was trying to say. Oops,
I qu
> for user definable rendering of a web feed. and publisher definable. Sorry, what I said, was in fact, not inclusive of your point regarding publisher control. There are plenty of feed readers that offer this level of control. For example, IE 6, Fx, Opera, and Safari -- yes, they are browsers ,
Aristotle,
Both of these are services, not browsers. As a service, its understandable... Limited server resources would justify this, as would the need to cache the data feed, and the related transformation or css files. However, when the client accesses the feed directly from the browser, the
btw... to be perfectly clear, your statement includes the word "consumers" which, if thought of in terms of the end user, then in fact your point could be seen as valid; or in other words "It should be the end users choice to use the internal viewer, or the directives set forth by the author.
>> When you provide information in an XML format, you're providing information, not a web page. You may desire to have it rendered a certain way when it's rendered by a web browser, but the consumers of your data can do whatever the heck they want with it. <<
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. What you
ssage-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of A. Pagaltzis
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:36 AM
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: IE7 Feed Rendering Issue
* James Yenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-08 20:30]:
>I would call IE7 dropping xml-stylesheet dire
On 3/8/06, James Yenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
My counterpoint is that this is non-standard approach
because the xml-stylesheet directive is a standard XML directive, and IE7 (the
reader, not the browser) is essentially saying that RSS/Atom are not first
of all XML and should be handled in so
* James Yenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-08 20:30]:
>I would call IE7 dropping xml-stylesheet directives a data lose
>issue.
Neither desktop nor online aggregators (such as NetNewsWire and
Bloglines) have ever paid attention to such directives. What is
your opinion on that?
Regards,
--
Aristo
IE6 and FF render Atom/RSS feeds as html using the
xml-stylesheet directive, however, IE7 Beta 2 drops the feed's xml-stylesheet
directive, if one exists, and replacing with IE7's own stylesheet
containing the gray to blue gradient background with the MS RSS extensions for
navigation/collati
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