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Yes, I think we understand one another.
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Matt Haase matthewhaa...@gmail.com wrote:
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Sure, and the same is true of Islam... both in terms of how Muslims
understand Islamic general roles, or, in this case, how
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I am disinclined to keep going on this if it's going to turn into an
argument.
I have to reply in short cos i am at work.
-I am not claiming any ascendancy over 'acedemics'.
- But in any case there are apparent differences in man and woman
that go beyond the
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On 3 Nov 2010 at 10:03, Naison Jones wrote:
True equality can Never exist between man and women because they are
different. All is meant in Bahai is that women have the same spiritual
rank as men and that implies 'true equality' not the equality of tasks
and
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I don't believe he did say that only men could be on the House of
Justice. He used a word (rijal) which refers to men in Arabic, but in
Persian is an honorific, and can refer to women.
Except the Aqdas is in Arabic, not Persian. But the real issue is not
what
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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Perhaps you didn't intend it this way, but the basic form of your
argument was to say that Naison was wrong because he was echoing
Muslim arguments.
Dear Gilberto,
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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As a Muslim, I agree with you. But I think I understand where Susan
is coming from in regards to her own religion's view. The Baha'i Faith (in
my understanding) is a
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
LOL. You are talking to someone whose father was a cook! He served in
the military during the Korean War. They had him guarding the border
at San Diego against wetbacks.
WTF!! Don't say wetback.
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Yes, but religions do tend to have good makers for devoutness even if they are
external. Psychologically, external markers are good indicators. The arguments
this doesn't intrinsically mean that is not the same as this instrincally means
not that. How often does a
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Yes, but religions do tend to have good makers for devoutness even if they are
external. Psychologically, external markers are good indicators. The arguments
this doesn't intrinsically mean that is not the same as this instrincally means
not that. How often does a
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http://www.progressivemuslims.org/ uses the same translation of the Qu'ran as
http://www.free-minds.org/ Actually, they co-authored/co-produced The Message
translation of the Qur'an.
Other users of this translation:
http://www.progressivemuslims.org/
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I'm not saying religion is merely just an ethical dimension. Religion is:
Doctrinal, Ethical, Experiential, Material, Mythical, Ritual, Social, etc.
Religions do have a tendency of summing up these things easily. The Ethical
dimension is one that is the one that is
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But Christianity AND Islam AND the Bahai faith include statements in
their writings which make distinctions between the roles of men and
women in society.
Dear Gilberto,
The question is do we make the same distinctions? The House of Justice
calls the distinctions
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Dear Iskandar,
Of course we all have reasons why we choose a particular path over others,
and that they speak to us more fully than the others - hence why we identify
ourselves as such. I think it is possible for one to do that without being
supremacist. For example, I
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And the Bahai faith affirms a belief in the equality of men and women
in the same breath that it prohibits women from serving on its highest
body, prohibits women as the givers of life from serving in combat,
has different rules for women around menstruation and
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Susan, are you trying to use the literary equivalent of cinema verite
here? ;-)
I'm just recounting it the way I remember my father describing it.
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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But Christianity AND Islam AND the Bahai faith include statements in
their writings which make distinctions between the roles of men and
women in society.
Dear
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I think that depends on which interpretations you look to. There are
definitely Christian groups (e.g. the Quakers) who are more
egalitarian than the Bahai faith where gender in no way shape or form
is related to differences in roles or treatment. The picture is more
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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And the Bahai faith affirms a belief in the equality of men and women
in the same breath that it prohibits women from serving on its highest
body, prohibits women as
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory
The Bahá'í Faith regards the conventional description of heaven (and hell) as a
specific place as symbolic. The Bahá'í writings describe heaven as a spiritual
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_military
There is no independent verified evidence women lack in ability.
From: Gilberto Simpson gilberto.simp...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, November 3,
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I think that depends on which interpretations you look to. There are
definitely Christian groups (e.g. the Quakers) who are more
egalitarian than the Bahai faith where gender in no way shape or form
is related to differences in roles or treatment. The picture is
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Of course Rodwell was non-Muslim and has translation hasn't held up
well. Yusuf Ali renders the passage:
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has
given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support
them from their
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No one believes in a literal fluffy cloud heaven or literal underworld.
I don't know if I would go so far as to say nobody. I just have to change
the channel to the 700 club or take a stroll around the hotspots at my
university, which ironically is liberal, to find all
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004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has
given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them
from
their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in
(the husband's)
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Also, I consider these place as metaphysical as opposed to some who believe in
a
literal re-bodying.
From: Adib Masumian adibmasum...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 4:18:04 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism
Baha'i have a tendency to say that their principles allow them not to put an
emphasis on law. This is a dangerous slippery slope to antinomianism. Laws are
important and there will never be a time when they are not needed.
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Baha'i have a tendency to say that their principles allow them not to put an
emphasis on law. This is a dangerous slippery slope to antinomianism. Laws
are important and there will never be a time when they are not needed. So
how much emphasis on laws do Baha'is
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I would say more than Christianity, less than Islam.
Less than Judaism as well.
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It depends on what type of Christian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 4:36:19 PM
Subject: Re: Law in Religion
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It depends on what type of Christian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement
Well, they have lots of rules in the Holiness movement but I wouldn't
call them laws. I think of Divine Law as something God-given.
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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.
His words, not mine.
You chose to repeat them.
Whatever he called them he was very sympathetic
to plight of illegal immigrants and believed we ought to open our
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how much emphasis on laws do Baha'is have?
From the beginning of the Kitab-i-Aqdas:
The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him
Who
is
the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth
the
Godhead
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Yes The Bahai faith is very different in the sense the equality of men and
women has become manifest. Ie the spiritual truth of their equality is now
shown forth in the material life.
What I was talking about is talking more philisofically true equality is a
utopean
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Let me elucidate.
Lets say the woman stays home and cares for the children and the man goes
forth and wins bread. All the femininist will say you are being sexist
(unequal).
In fact this is just the distribution of resources into their natural
strengths and roles. If
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It is impracticle and undesirable to say men and women should have the same
roles in a marraige.
If you want to balance equal raising of children perfectly between them it
is very difficult to reconcile this with steady jobs.
Not only that, it is a cause for disunity
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I guarentee you if you stick to the principle of equality in a Bahai
marraige you will see this comes from inequality.
Otherwise your marraige wil suck. It will be like No dear its now your turn
to drop off the kids, No i did this last time its your turn.
No I was
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Not only that. The otherway implies because everything has to be perfectly
equal there is no sacrifice because we must be violating a Bahai principle.
Is that what you think? That is a selfish marraige. What if one of you falls
sick. And the other takes care for you
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I might say: as much emphasis as deemed necessary by the Head of the Faith.
Best regards,
Iskandar
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Tim Nolan tnola...@yahoo.com wrote:
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how much emphasis on laws do Baha'is have?
From the beginning
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The point, dear Matt, is that at the end of the day and in the final
analysis you choose one religion (or no religion for that matter) over
others. And this should not irk you. If it does, so be it. You chose Islam
and I chose the Baha'i Faith. If this irks an atheist
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On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Gilberto Simpson gilberto.simp...@gmail.com
wrote:
Of course Rodwell was non-Muslim and has translation hasn't held up
well. Yusuf Ali renders the passage:
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has
given
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