Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jude DaShiell]

You have to have a higher quality card than intel to do it but
multi-channel architecture cards have been on the market for as long as
computers have been being used by professionals for sound editing and
production.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023, Shaun Everiss wrote:

> Hmmm.
>
> That doesn't matter though screenreaders bar talking dosbox if you have 1 need
> a hardware synth.
>
> You can't play sound out of the same card as well whatever.
>
> I did try freedos back in the day and almost immediately switched back to
> msdos 6.
>
> Actually msdos does have a version online but I forget.
>
> There is no firefox for dos for example.
>
> I'd really like to return to dos but natively, naa.
>
> And anyway I don't have a unit I could use it on.
>
> Then yeah vmware.
>
> I have had issues with vmware and its stupid keyboard enhancement drivers.
>
> vmware installs always slowed things down and I couldn't give a damn about its
> accessibility.
>
> Before covid I was going to doodle with virtualbox but now I'm no longer
> interested.
>
> Anyway I don't have the space for this and that and I use most of it here on
> my duel drive workstation.
>
> I have 1 unit that runs win7 I could probably use but don't know.
>
>
> On 22/01/2023 1:07 pm, Travis Siegel wrote:
> > You'd be surprised what you can do with dos these days.  There are usb
> > drivers for dos, and there's even a version of dos that is still being
> > developed, it's called freedos.
> >
> > It is generally a single tasking system, but there are programs to solve
> > that problem if it's really needed.
> >
> > There's also plenty of ways to get online (without a modem), even using
> > dos.  Just that it's not the mainstream os, and there are lots of
> > limitations, even with hardware, since dos won't work with eufi bios
> > machines, and since almost every modern day machine has that, it's not the
> > easiest thing to get a copy of dos up and running, but for particular nich
> > operations, dos still has it's place.
> >
> >
> > On 1/21/2023 2:34 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
> >> Java is a web based system used by android, linux, and sunos.
> >>
> >> Dos?
> >>
> >> I quit dos because its single task nature.
> >>
> >> Pluss dos can't do usb anything.
> >>
> >> Dos can also not do the advanced networks we have.
> >>
> >> No one uses modems anymore really.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 22/01/2023 8:00 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> >>> Too bad java never got dos-compatible, if it had maybe lynx would be
> >>> running on java by now.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> >>> defense of liberty:
> >>>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> >>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> >>>
> >>> .
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:
> >>>
>  Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not
>  accessible
>  actually takes work believe it or not.
> 
>  Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java
>  gives
>  us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead
>  of
>  using the provided text output routines java has built in. And, even
>  better,
>  (for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will
>  place
>  GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom
>  layout for
>  you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible,
>  and
>  you don't have to fight with screen layout at all. Unfortunately, java
>  also
>  offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers
>  think
>  nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various
>  aspects
>  of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader
>  users.
> 
>  Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development
>  tools
>  use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
>  accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or
>  they
>  want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided
>  default
>  elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.
> 
>  These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only
>  sighted
>  developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing
>  various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in
>  accessibility
>  in the process.
> 
> 
>  On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
> > its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that
> > messes
> > up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Shaun Everiss]

Hmmm.

That doesn't matter though screenreaders bar talking dosbox if you have 
1 need a hardware synth.


You can't play sound out of the same card as well whatever.

I did try freedos back in the day and almost immediately switched back 
to msdos 6.


Actually msdos does have a version online but I forget.

There is no firefox for dos for example.

I'd really like to return to dos but natively, naa.

And anyway I don't have a unit I could use it on.

Then yeah vmware.

I have had issues with vmware and its stupid keyboard enhancement drivers.

vmware installs always slowed things down and I couldn't give a damn 
about its accessibility.


Before covid I was going to doodle with virtualbox but now I'm no longer 
interested.


Anyway I don't have the space for this and that and I use most of it 
here on my duel drive workstation.


I have 1 unit that runs win7 I could probably use but don't know.


On 22/01/2023 1:07 pm, Travis Siegel wrote:
You'd be surprised what you can do with dos these days.  There are usb 
drivers for dos, and there's even a version of dos that is still being 
developed, it's called freedos.


It is generally a single tasking system, but there are programs to 
solve that problem if it's really needed.


There's also plenty of ways to get online (without a modem), even 
using dos.  Just that it's not the mainstream os, and there are lots 
of limitations, even with hardware, since dos won't work with eufi 
bios machines, and since almost every modern day machine has that, 
it's not the easiest thing to get a copy of dos up and running, but 
for particular nich operations, dos still has it's place.



On 1/21/2023 2:34 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Java is a web based system used by android, linux, and sunos.

Dos?

I quit dos because its single task nature.

Pluss dos can't do usb anything.

Dos can also not do the advanced networks we have.

No one uses modems anymore really.


On 22/01/2023 8:00 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Too bad java never got dos-compatible, if it had maybe lynx would be
running on java by now.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not 
accessible

actually takes work believe it or not.

Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines 
java gives
us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen 
instead of
using the provided text output routines java has built in. And, 
even better,
(for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it 
will place
GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom 
layout for
you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being 
visible, and
you don't have to fight with screen layout at all. Unfortunately, 
java also
offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted 
developers think
nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with 
various aspects
of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader 
users.


Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple 
development tools

use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look 
different, or they
want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided 
default

elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.

These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, 
only sighted
developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by 
changing
various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in 
accessibility

in the process.


On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room 
about
its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and 
that messes

up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those 
can
either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen 
reader

that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the 
internet

was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to 
me that

coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you 
can?t turn
the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen 
reader

settings that I can find.


    On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel 


    wrote:


  

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Shaun Everiss]

Ok.

I have worked as an accessibility tester before.

True mostly websites, granted a little software a few games but mostly 
websites.


The rest was concept research.

I am no pro spec ops though, just a contracter.

I have not had anyone that wouldn't change their stuff but most stuff is 
most of the way there.


Most work was for the disability sector and all my work was for the 
windows side.


So yeah I am no specialist, and I am sure there is a heck of a lot I 
don't know.


Sadly I need to deal with trolls on a daily basis.

They either don't know are just wanting trouble or try to do to much I 
have had that to.


So the reason my message to you was like that was because most of the 
time I have to hand self centered bleepers that just don't.


Now I am no saint either but at least I'd like to think I'd admit it if 
I was wrong.


Some don't.


On 22/01/2023 8:40 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:

It's not the blindy way of access, it's the lowest common denominator of
access.  There is a difference and if you haven't worked in a11y, you
won't appreciate that difference.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023, Shaun Everiss wrote:


I actually disagree.

The sighted world is opening up and education is the way.

Yes the blind etc should have more involvement.

But do we really want to go down the blindy way of access.

Ie this program needs jaws to work and will cost a lot of cash.

q9 is in leasy, leasy costs cash.

Blindness software costs a lot of cash.

You really want our own stuff for our own stuff?

True its accessible to us but thats it.

True some don't write all that well but working as a web system and software
tester, using what is already existing is the big thing.

Labeled images, things which are so fancy they just don't read, etc.

The web platform is the future.

Back in the day I used spaciffic blindness software.

And while I could access things while everyone brought new hardware mine had
to work with the software for access on a speech synth which if it didn't work
wouldn't work.


Mainstreaming may have dropped access a little but its also got us using
mainstreamed tech.

And in the age of ai, voice recognition, and some screen access the world is
ready for us.

There will come a point when blindness will be a thing of the past.

And when that happens, all the blindy developers and blind software makers and
blindy everyone and all the helpless blindy blind persons will be out of a
job.

What I am saying is there will be a point where integration will be the
future.

And I'd rather do it now painfull that it may be right at this moment than
later.

Another example.

My now dead grandpa used paper, had issues understanding security and the net.

Got into the waggon to late.

Then all the analog lines dropped.

Same with my aunt.

By then in my grandpa's case it was to complex.

A lot of the old are left high and dry because the world has moved on.

I don't think the disabled should be left like that if there is an opertunity
to move.

Saying all that I do agree with you that the blind and general disabled
community are under utilised by the mainstream community and thats going to
need to change if we are to move forward.



On 22/01/2023 7:59 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:

We need more blind developers replacing those sighted developers or we'll
never get accessible useable and functional software everyone can use.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:


Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not
accessible
actually takes work believe it or not.

Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives
us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of
using the provided text output routines java has built in.  And, even
better,
(for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will
place
GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout
for
you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible,
and
you don't have to fight with screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java
also
offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think
nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various
aspects
of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.

Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development
tools
use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or
they
want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default
elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.

These days, it's 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Travis Siegel]

You'd be surprised what you can do with dos these days.  There are usb 
drivers for dos, and there's even a version of dos that is still being 
developed, it's called freedos.


It is generally a single tasking system, but there are programs to solve 
that problem if it's really needed.


There's also plenty of ways to get online (without a modem), even using 
dos.  Just that it's not the mainstream os, and there are lots of 
limitations, even with hardware, since dos won't work with eufi bios 
machines, and since almost every modern day machine has that, it's not 
the easiest thing to get a copy of dos up and running, but for 
particular nich operations, dos still has it's place.



On 1/21/2023 2:34 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Java is a web based system used by android, linux, and sunos.

Dos?

I quit dos because its single task nature.

Pluss dos can't do usb anything.

Dos can also not do the advanced networks we have.

No one uses modems anymore really.


On 22/01/2023 8:00 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Too bad java never got dos-compatible, if it had maybe lynx would be
running on java by now.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not 
accessible

actually takes work believe it or not.

Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines 
java gives
us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen 
instead of
using the provided text output routines java has built in. And, even 
better,
(for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it 
will place
GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom 
layout for
you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being 
visible, and
you don't have to fight with screen layout at all. Unfortunately, 
java also
offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted 
developers think
nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various 
aspects
of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader 
users.


Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple 
development tools

use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, 
or they
want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided 
default

elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.

These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, 
only sighted
developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by 
changing
various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in 
accessibility

in the process.


On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room 
about
its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that 
messes

up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen 
reader

that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the 
internet

was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to 
me that

coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you 
can?t turn
the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen 
reader

settings that I can find.


    On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel 


    wrote:


    The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister 
mud
    3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you 
probably

    already have (alteraeon.com 3000)

    Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the 
mud

    easier to use.

    Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be 
happy to

    assist where I can.


    On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

    Hi guys



    Can anyone recommend any good muds?



    Lindsay Cowell.



    Sent from Mail for Windows



    From: Jude DaShiell
    Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
    To: blind-gamers@groups.io
    Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud



Bad experience in that mud.

For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.

First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you 
will be


offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jesse Gaona]

If you are into Tolkien, and love exploring, questing, and hunting
orcs, then you should check  out MUME.
mume.org; port 4242

On 1/21/23, Lindsay Cowell  wrote:
> I now play 3 kingdoms. My username on there is Tina.
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>
> From: Travis Siegel
> Sent: 20 January 2023 23:34
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
>
> The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud 3scapes.3k.org
> 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably already have
> (alteraeon.com 3000)
> Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud easier to
> use.
> Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to assist
> where I can.
>
> On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> Can anyone recommend any good muds?
>
> Lindsay Cowell.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>
> From: Jude DaShiell
> Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
>
> Bad experience in that mud.
> For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.
> First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be
> offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the
> quest cannot be completed.
> Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the
> kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a
> low level.
> This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created
> earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring
> experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the
> characters you created graduate.
> Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to
> start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each
> character leaves mudschool
> There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill
> everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more
> money when you graduate.  Money is hard to come by though you can bank it.
> Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector.  The
> tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too.
> All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be
> playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience
> with a mud I've had.  At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to
> build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud.
>
>
>
> Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>


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Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jude DaShiell]

It's not the blindy way of access, it's the lowest common denominator of
access.  There is a difference and if you haven't worked in a11y, you
won't appreciate that difference.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023, Shaun Everiss wrote:

> I actually disagree.
>
> The sighted world is opening up and education is the way.
>
> Yes the blind etc should have more involvement.
>
> But do we really want to go down the blindy way of access.
>
> Ie this program needs jaws to work and will cost a lot of cash.
>
> q9 is in leasy, leasy costs cash.
>
> Blindness software costs a lot of cash.
>
> You really want our own stuff for our own stuff?
>
> True its accessible to us but thats it.
>
> True some don't write all that well but working as a web system and software
> tester, using what is already existing is the big thing.
>
> Labeled images, things which are so fancy they just don't read, etc.
>
> The web platform is the future.
>
> Back in the day I used spaciffic blindness software.
>
> And while I could access things while everyone brought new hardware mine had
> to work with the software for access on a speech synth which if it didn't work
> wouldn't work.
>
>
> Mainstreaming may have dropped access a little but its also got us using
> mainstreamed tech.
>
> And in the age of ai, voice recognition, and some screen access the world is
> ready for us.
>
> There will come a point when blindness will be a thing of the past.
>
> And when that happens, all the blindy developers and blind software makers and
> blindy everyone and all the helpless blindy blind persons will be out of a
> job.
>
> What I am saying is there will be a point where integration will be the
> future.
>
> And I'd rather do it now painfull that it may be right at this moment than
> later.
>
> Another example.
>
> My now dead grandpa used paper, had issues understanding security and the net.
>
> Got into the waggon to late.
>
> Then all the analog lines dropped.
>
> Same with my aunt.
>
> By then in my grandpa's case it was to complex.
>
> A lot of the old are left high and dry because the world has moved on.
>
> I don't think the disabled should be left like that if there is an opertunity
> to move.
>
> Saying all that I do agree with you that the blind and general disabled
> community are under utilised by the mainstream community and thats going to
> need to change if we are to move forward.
>
>
>
> On 22/01/2023 7:59 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > We need more blind developers replacing those sighted developers or we'll
> > never get accessible useable and functional software everyone can use.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> > defense of liberty:
> >   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> >
> > .
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:
> >
> >> Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not
> >> accessible
> >> actually takes work believe it or not.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives
> >> us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of
> >> using the provided text output routines java has built in.  And, even
> >> better,
> >> (for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will
> >> place
> >> GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout
> >> for
> >> you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible,
> >> and
> >> you don't have to fight with screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java
> >> also
> >> offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think
> >> nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various
> >> aspects
> >> of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.
> >>
> >> Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development
> >> tools
> >> use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
> >> accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or
> >> they
> >> want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default
> >> elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.
> >>
> >> These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only
> >> sighted
> >> developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing
> >> various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in
> >> accessibility
> >> in the process.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> >>> Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
> >>> its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
> >>> up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
> >>> screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Shaun Everiss]

Java is a web based system used by android, linux, and sunos.

Dos?

I quit dos because its single task nature.

Pluss dos can't do usb anything.

Dos can also not do the advanced networks we have.

No one uses modems anymore really.


On 22/01/2023 8:00 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Too bad java never got dos-compatible, if it had maybe lynx would be
running on java by now.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:


Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not accessible
actually takes work believe it or not.

Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives
us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of
using the provided text output routines java has built in.  And, even better,
(for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will place
GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout for
you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible, and
you don't have to fight with screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java also
offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think
nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various aspects
of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.

Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development tools
use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or they
want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default
elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.

These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only sighted
developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing
various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in accessibility
in the process.


On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader
that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet
was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to me that
coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:


I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn
the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader
settings that I can find.


On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel 
wrote:


The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud
3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably
already have (alteraeon.com 3000)

Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud
easier to use.

Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to
assist where I can.


On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

Hi guys



Can anyone recommend any good muds?



Lindsay Cowell.



Sent from Mail for Windows



From: Jude DaShiell
Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud



Bad experience in that mud.

For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.

First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be

offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the

quest cannot be completed.

Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the

kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a

low level.

This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created

earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring

experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the

characters you created graduate.

Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to

start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each

character leaves mudschool

There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill

everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Shaun Everiss]

I actually disagree.

The sighted world is opening up and education is the way.

Yes the blind etc should have more involvement.

But do we really want to go down the blindy way of access.

Ie this program needs jaws to work and will cost a lot of cash.

q9 is in leasy, leasy costs cash.

Blindness software costs a lot of cash.

You really want our own stuff for our own stuff?

True its accessible to us but thats it.

True some don't write all that well but working as a web system and 
software tester, using what is already existing is the big thing.


Labeled images, things which are so fancy they just don't read, etc.

The web platform is the future.

Back in the day I used spaciffic blindness software.

And while I could access things while everyone brought new hardware mine 
had to work with the software for access on a speech synth which if it 
didn't work wouldn't work.



Mainstreaming may have dropped access a little but its also got us using 
mainstreamed tech.


And in the age of ai, voice recognition, and some screen access the 
world is ready for us.


There will come a point when blindness will be a thing of the past.

And when that happens, all the blindy developers and blind software 
makers and blindy everyone and all the helpless blindy blind persons 
will be out of a job.


What I am saying is there will be a point where integration will be the 
future.


And I'd rather do it now painfull that it may be right at this moment 
than later.


Another example.

My now dead grandpa used paper, had issues understanding security and 
the net.


Got into the waggon to late.

Then all the analog lines dropped.

Same with my aunt.

By then in my grandpa's case it was to complex.

A lot of the old are left high and dry because the world has moved on.

I don't think the disabled should be left like that if there is an 
opertunity to move.


Saying all that I do agree with you that the blind and general disabled 
community are under utilised by the mainstream community and thats going 
to need to change if we are to move forward.




On 22/01/2023 7:59 am, Jude DaShiell wrote:

We need more blind developers replacing those sighted developers or we'll
never get accessible useable and functional software everyone can use.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:


Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not accessible
actually takes work believe it or not.

Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives
us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of
using the provided text output routines java has built in.  And, even better,
(for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will place
GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout for
you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible, and
you don't have to fight with screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java also
offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think
nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various aspects
of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.

Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development tools
use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or they
want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default
elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.

These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only sighted
developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing
various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in accessibility
in the process.


On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader
that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet
was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to me that
coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:


I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn
the 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Travis Siegel]

Not much point to that.  Lynx is written in C, and it works fairly 
well.  It's already portable to many environments, including dos.


Not sure a java port would be helpful.

Besides, C is a compiled language, Java is an interpreted one. 
Interpreted languages are slower than compiled ones (in general), so 
it's better for lynx to be as it is.



On 1/21/2023 2:00 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Too bad java never got dos-compatible, if it had maybe lynx would be
running on java by now.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:


Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not accessible
actually takes work believe it or not.

Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives
us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of
using the provided text output routines java has built in.  And, even better,
(for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will place
GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout for
you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible, and
you don't have to fight with screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java also
offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think
nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various aspects
of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.

Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development tools
use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or they
want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default
elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.

These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only sighted
developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing
various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in accessibility
in the process.


On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader
that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet
was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to me that
coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:


I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn
the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader
settings that I can find.


On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel 
wrote:


The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud
3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably
already have (alteraeon.com 3000)

Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud
easier to use.

Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to
assist where I can.


On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

Hi guys



Can anyone recommend any good muds?



Lindsay Cowell.



Sent from Mail for Windows



From: Jude DaShiell
Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud



Bad experience in that mud.

For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.

First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be

offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the

quest cannot be completed.

Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the

kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a

low level.

This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created

earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring

experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the

characters you created graduate.

Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to

start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each

character leaves mudschool

There's a dungeon in the center of 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jude DaShiell]

Too bad java never got dos-compatible, if it had maybe lynx would be
running on java by now.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

> Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not accessible
> actually takes work believe it or not.
>
> Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives
> us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of
> using the provided text output routines java has built in.  And, even better,
> (for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will place
> GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout for
> you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible, and
> you don't have to fight with screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java also
> offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think
> nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various aspects
> of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.
>
> Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development tools
> use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
> accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or they
> want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default
> elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.
>
> These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only sighted
> developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing
> various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in accessibility
> in the process.
>
>
> On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
> > its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
> > up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
> > screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
> > either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader
> > that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
> > operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet
> > was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
> > languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to me that
> > coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> > defense of liberty:
> >   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> >
> > .
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> >
> >> I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn
> >> the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader
> >> settings that I can find.
> >>
> >>
> >>On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel 
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud
> >>3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably
> >>already have (alteraeon.com 3000)
> >>
> >>Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud
> >>easier to use.
> >>
> >>Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to
> >>assist where I can.
> >>
> >>
> >>On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> >>
> >>Hi guys
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Can anyone recommend any good muds?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Lindsay Cowell.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Sent from Mail for Windows
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>From: Jude DaShiell
> >>Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
> >>To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> >>Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bad experience in that mud.
> >>
> >> For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.
> >>
> >> First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be
> >>
> >> offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the
> >>
> >> quest cannot be completed.
> >>
> >> Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the
> >>
> >> kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a
> >>
> >> low level.
> >>
> >> This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created
> >>
> >> earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring
> >>
> >> experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the
> >>
> >> characters you created graduate.
> >>
> >> Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to
> >>
> >> start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each
> >>
> >> character leaves 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jude DaShiell]

We need more blind developers replacing those sighted developers or we'll
never get accessible useable and functional software everyone can use.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

> Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not accessible
> actually takes work believe it or not.
>
> Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives
> us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of
> using the provided text output routines java has built in.  And, even better,
> (for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will place
> GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout for
> you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible, and
> you don't have to fight with screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java also
> offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think
> nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various aspects
> of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.
>
> Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development tools
> use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent
> accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or they
> want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default
> elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.
>
> These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only sighted
> developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing
> various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in accessibility
> in the process.
>
>
> On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
> > its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
> > up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
> > screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
> > either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader
> > that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
> > operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet
> > was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
> > languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to me that
> > coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> > defense of liberty:
> >   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> >
> > .
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> >
> >> I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn
> >> the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader
> >> settings that I can find.
> >>
> >>
> >>On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel 
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud
> >>3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably
> >>already have (alteraeon.com 3000)
> >>
> >>Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud
> >>easier to use.
> >>
> >>Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to
> >>assist where I can.
> >>
> >>
> >>On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> >>
> >>Hi guys
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Can anyone recommend any good muds?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Lindsay Cowell.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Sent from Mail for Windows
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>From: Jude DaShiell
> >>Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
> >>To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> >>Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bad experience in that mud.
> >>
> >> For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.
> >>
> >> First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be
> >>
> >> offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the
> >>
> >> quest cannot be completed.
> >>
> >> Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the
> >>
> >> kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a
> >>
> >> low level.
> >>
> >> This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created
> >>
> >> earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring
> >>
> >> experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the
> >>
> >> characters you created graduate.
> >>
> >> Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to
> >>
> >> start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Travis Siegel]

Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program.  Making it not 
accessible actually takes work believe it or not.


Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java 
gives us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen 
instead of using the provided text output routines java has built in.  
And, even better, (for visually impaired developers), java has a grid 
mode, where it will place GUI elements on the screen in a logical left 
to right top to bottom layout for you, so you never have to worry about 
your screen designs being visible, and you don't have to fight with 
screen layout at all.  Unfortunately, java also offers other layout 
modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think nothing of 
making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various aspects of the 
output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users.


Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development 
tools use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 
percent accessible.  But, as always, folks want their app to look 
different, or they want to do something different, and so they don't use 
the provided default elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible.


These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only 
sighted developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by 
changing various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built 
in accessibility in the process.



On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader
that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet
was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to me that
coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:


I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn the 
prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader settings 
that I can find.


   On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel  wrote:


   The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud 
3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably already have 
(alteraeon.com 3000)

   Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud easier to 
use.

   Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to assist 
where I can.


   On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

   Hi guys




   Can anyone recommend any good muds?




   Lindsay Cowell.




   Sent from Mail for Windows




   From: Jude DaShiell
   Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
   To: blind-gamers@groups.io
   Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

  


Bad experience in that mud.

For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.

First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be

offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the

quest cannot be completed.

Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the

kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a

low level.

This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created

earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring

experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the

characters you created graduate.

Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to

start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each

character leaves mudschool

There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill

everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more

money when you graduate.  Money is hard to come by though you can bank it.

Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector.  The

tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too.

All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be

playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience

with a mud I've had.  At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to

build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud.

  

  

  


Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in

defense 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jude DaShiell]

The distribution  for the code base is on a github site.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

> It's rare that mud prompts can't be turned off or at the very least changed. 
> Often times, typing help prompt will give you all sorts of information about
> what you can place in your prompt, and what information it can give you.
>
> I hate long prompts, and generally just change my prompt to a single > (that's
> a greater than symbol), because that way I know when the mud is ready for
> input, and I generally also tie aliases to other information I wish to know,
> like typing hp to tell my current hitpoints, and so on.  I've rarely run into
> a mud where the prompt wasn't changeable at all.  I don't know what you guys
> are referring to when you say coffee mud, I'm assuming it's a particular mud,
> but that is confusing, because there was a mud written in java called coffee
> mud several years ago, so when someone says coffee mud, it makes me think of
> the coffee mud written in java, which is a mud program itself, not a specific
> mud..
>
> I'm sure the address for coffee mud was mentioned here in the past, but I had
> no interest, so didn't bother to note it down.
>
> Perhaps this coffee mud everyone is talking about is the home of the coffee
> mud distribution, as in the folks that wrote the java based mud, but it
> doesn't sound like that's the case, from all the things that have been written
> here.
>
> To my knowledge, the coffee mud java project wasn't ever finished, though it
> did work, I took a look at it, and decided it wasn't for me (as an admin at
> least)
>
>
> Anyway, not that I intended to go off on that tangent, check help prompt to
> see if it's possible to modify it to make it easier to deal with with a screen
> reader.
>
>
> On 1/20/2023 10:12 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> > I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn the
> > prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader settings
> > that I can find.
> >
> >
> >> On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud
> >> 3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably already
> >> have (alteraeon.com 3000)
> >>
> >> Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud easier to
> >> use.
> >>
> >> Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to assist
> >> where I can.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi guys
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone recommend any good muds?
> >>>
> >>> Lindsay Cowell.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from Mail  for
> >>> Windows
> >>>
> >>> *From: *Jude DaShiell 
> >>> *Sent: *20 January 2023 19:47
> >>> *To: *blind-gamers@groups.io
> >>> *Subject: *Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
> >>>
> >>> Bad experience in that mud.
> >>>
> >>> For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.
> >>>
> >>> First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be
> >>>
> >>> offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the
> >>>
> >>> quest cannot be completed.
> >>>
> >>> Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the
> >>>
> >>> kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a
> >>>
> >>> low level.
> >>>
> >>> This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created
> >>>
> >>> earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring
> >>>
> >>> experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the
> >>>
> >>> characters you created graduate.
> >>>
> >>> Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to
> >>>
> >>> start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each
> >>>
> >>> character leaves mudschool
> >>>
> >>> There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill
> >>>
> >>> everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more
> >>>
> >>> money when you graduate.  Money is hard to come by though you can bank it.
> >>>
> >>> Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector.  The
> >>>
> >>> tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too.
> >>>
> >>> All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be
> >>>
> >>> playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience
> >>>
> >>> with a mud I've had.  At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to
> >>>
> >>> build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud.
> >>>
> >>> Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> >>>
> >>> defense of liberty:
> >>>
> >>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> >>>
> >>> -Ed 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jude DaShiell]

coffeemud is a particular mud coffeemud.net port 23.  It is possible
coffeemud's code base has been used by others to create additional muds
with different names as well.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

> It's rare that mud prompts can't be turned off or at the very least changed. 
> Often times, typing help prompt will give you all sorts of information about
> what you can place in your prompt, and what information it can give you.
>
> I hate long prompts, and generally just change my prompt to a single > (that's
> a greater than symbol), because that way I know when the mud is ready for
> input, and I generally also tie aliases to other information I wish to know,
> like typing hp to tell my current hitpoints, and so on.  I've rarely run into
> a mud where the prompt wasn't changeable at all.  I don't know what you guys
> are referring to when you say coffee mud, I'm assuming it's a particular mud,
> but that is confusing, because there was a mud written in java called coffee
> mud several years ago, so when someone says coffee mud, it makes me think of
> the coffee mud written in java, which is a mud program itself, not a specific
> mud..
>
> I'm sure the address for coffee mud was mentioned here in the past, but I had
> no interest, so didn't bother to note it down.
>
> Perhaps this coffee mud everyone is talking about is the home of the coffee
> mud distribution, as in the folks that wrote the java based mud, but it
> doesn't sound like that's the case, from all the things that have been written
> here.
>
> To my knowledge, the coffee mud java project wasn't ever finished, though it
> did work, I took a look at it, and decided it wasn't for me (as an admin at
> least)
>
>
> Anyway, not that I intended to go off on that tangent, check help prompt to
> see if it's possible to modify it to make it easier to deal with with a screen
> reader.
>
>
> On 1/20/2023 10:12 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> > I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn the
> > prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader settings
> > that I can find.
> >
> >
> >> On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud
> >> 3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably already
> >> have (alteraeon.com 3000)
> >>
> >> Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud easier to
> >> use.
> >>
> >> Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to assist
> >> where I can.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi guys
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone recommend any good muds?
> >>>
> >>> Lindsay Cowell.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from Mail  for
> >>> Windows
> >>>
> >>> *From: *Jude DaShiell 
> >>> *Sent: *20 January 2023 19:47
> >>> *To: *blind-gamers@groups.io
> >>> *Subject: *Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
> >>>
> >>> Bad experience in that mud.
> >>>
> >>> For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.
> >>>
> >>> First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be
> >>>
> >>> offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the
> >>>
> >>> quest cannot be completed.
> >>>
> >>> Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the
> >>>
> >>> kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a
> >>>
> >>> low level.
> >>>
> >>> This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created
> >>>
> >>> earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring
> >>>
> >>> experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the
> >>>
> >>> characters you created graduate.
> >>>
> >>> Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to
> >>>
> >>> start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each
> >>>
> >>> character leaves mudschool
> >>>
> >>> There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill
> >>>
> >>> everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more
> >>>
> >>> money when you graduate.  Money is hard to come by though you can bank it.
> >>>
> >>> Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector.  The
> >>>
> >>> tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too.
> >>>
> >>> All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be
> >>>
> >>> playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience
> >>>
> >>> with a mud I've had.  At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to
> >>>
> >>> build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud.
> >>>
> >>> Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> >>>
> >>> 

Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Travis Siegel]

It's rare that mud prompts can't be turned off or at the very least 
changed.  Often times, typing help prompt will give you all sorts of 
information about what you can place in your prompt, and what 
information it can give you.


I hate long prompts, and generally just change my prompt to a single > 
(that's a greater than symbol), because that way I know when the mud is 
ready for input, and I generally also tie aliases to other information I 
wish to know, like typing hp to tell my current hitpoints, and so on.  
I've rarely run into a mud where the prompt wasn't changeable at all.  I 
don't know what you guys are referring to when you say coffee mud, I'm 
assuming it's a particular mud, but that is confusing, because there was 
a mud written in java called coffee mud several years ago, so when 
someone says coffee mud, it makes me think of the coffee mud written in 
java, which is a mud program itself, not a specific mud..


I'm sure the address for coffee mud was mentioned here in the past, but 
I had no interest, so didn't bother to note it down.


Perhaps this coffee mud everyone is talking about is the home of the 
coffee mud distribution, as in the folks that wrote the java based mud, 
but it doesn't sound like that's the case, from all the things that have 
been written here.


To my knowledge, the coffee mud java project wasn't ever finished, 
though it did work, I took a look at it, and decided it wasn't for me 
(as an admin at least)



Anyway, not that I intended to go off on that tangent, check help prompt 
to see if it's possible to modify it to make it easier to deal with with 
a screen reader.



On 1/20/2023 10:12 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can’t 
turn the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen 
reader settings that I can find.




On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel  wrote:



The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud 
3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably 
already have (alteraeon.com 3000)


Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud easier 
to use.


Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to 
assist where I can.



On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:


Hi guys

Can anyone recommend any good muds?

Lindsay Cowell.

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows


*From: *Jude DaShiell 
*Sent: *20 January 2023 19:47
*To: *blind-gamers@groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

Bad experience in that mud.

For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.

First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be

offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the

quest cannot be completed.

Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several 
since the


kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a

low level.

This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you 
created


earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly 
boring


experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the

characters you created graduate.

Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to

start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities 
as each


character leaves mudschool

There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can 
kill


everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more

money when you graduate.  Money is hard to come by though you can 
bank it.


Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector.  The

tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too.

All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be

playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience

with a mud I've had.  At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to

build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud.

Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in

defense of liberty:

soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."

-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.






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Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Jude DaShiell]

Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about
its config options.  For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes
up screen displays.  Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the
screen if you set lines and columns correctly too.  That way those can
either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader
that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for
operations.  Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet
was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier
languages with deeper internet documentation.  It's interesting to me that
coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

> I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn the 
> prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader settings 
> that I can find.
>
>
>   On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel  wrote:
>
>
>   The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud 
> 3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably already 
> have (alteraeon.com 3000)
>
>   Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud easier 
> to use.
>
>   Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to 
> assist where I can.
>
>
>   On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
>
>   Hi guys
>
>    
>
>   Can anyone recommend any good muds?
>
>    
>
>   Lindsay Cowell.
>
>    
>
>   Sent from Mail for Windows
>
>    
>
>   From: Jude DaShiell
>   Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
>   To: blind-gamers@groups.io
>   Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
>
>  
>
> Bad experience in that mud.
>
> For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.
>
> First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be
>
> offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the
>
> quest cannot be completed.
>
> Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the
>
> kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a
>
> low level.
>
> This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created
>
> earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring
>
> experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the
>
> characters you created graduate.
>
> Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to
>
> start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each
>
> character leaves mudschool
>
> There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill
>
> everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more
>
> money when you graduate.  Money is hard to come by though you can bank it.
>
> Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector.  The
>
> tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too.
>
> All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be
>
> playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience
>
> with a mud I've had.  At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to
>
> build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud.
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
>
> defense of liberty:
>
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>
>  
>
> .
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> 
>
>


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Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

[Lindsay Cowell]

I now play 3 kingdoms. My username on there is Tina.


Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Travis Siegel
Sent: 20 January 2023 23:34
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: Muds was RE: [blind-gamers] coffeemud

The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud 3scapes.3k.org 
3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably already have (alteraeon.com 
3000)
Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud easier to use.
Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to assist where 
I can.

On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
Hi guys
 
Can anyone recommend any good muds?
 
Lindsay Cowell. 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: Jude DaShiell
Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud
 
Bad experience in that mud.
For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips.
First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be
offered.  Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the
quest cannot be completed.
Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since the
kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a
low level.
This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you created
earlier.  Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly boring
experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the
characters you created graduate.
Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to
start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as each
character leaves mudschool
There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill
everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more
money when you graduate.  Money is hard to come by though you can bank it.
Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector.  The
tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too.
All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be
playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience
with a mud I've had.  At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to
build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud.
 
 
 
Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
 
.
 
 
 
 
 




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