Which book was that? Just wondering.
Julia
I am away from home. I will send you the name next weekend
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Dan wrote:
Obtaining the oil production data from
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_sum_crdsnd_adc_mbbl_m.htm
and the crude oil prices from
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Tabl
e.asp
We get the following table:
production
US imports
On 4/12/06, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4/12/06, The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is nonsense.
>
>
> Seriously? And what do you do with Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem?
>
> Nick
Based on what I've read of the Fo
On 4/11/06, Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:33:08 -0700, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Isn't it blindingly obvious that the bin Ladens of this world find
> > followers because of the social and economic conditions where they
> > recruit?
>
> No,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I understand it the incompleteness theroem does not in any way
invalidate physics or the math that is used to study and support it.
Goedal was famously misunderstood (at least according to a book I
read recently). He did not believe that his work proved that the
univ
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charlie Bell
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:14 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
>
> Socioeconomics or straight politics cre
-Original Message-
From: Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Sent: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:38:27 -0200
Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
The Fool, in a sudden religious zeal, wrote:
>
>>> I believe only in the purity of math. Everythin
> From: Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> The Fool wrote:
> >
> >>> I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is
nonsense.
> >
> >> Seriously? And what do you do with Goedel's Incompleteness
Theorem?
> >
> > Does it effect the underlying math the all physics is based around?
The Fool, in a sudden religious zeal, wrote:
>
>>> I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is nonsense.
>
>> Seriously? And what do you do with Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem?
>
> Does it effect the underlying math the all physics is based around?
>
I think it does - if the bas
Nick Arnett wrote:
On 4/12/06, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There was a lot of payback of collaborators with the Moors,
No, no. It was the Moops!
Considering my primary meaning of MOOP, "matter out of place", that's
interesting.
Julia
__
The Fool wrote:
>> From: Andrew Crystall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> On 11 Apr 2006 at 7:22, The Fool wrote:
>>
>>> If you ingore some minor gibberish about buddism:
>>>
>>> <>
>>
>> I find your faith in atheism is touching. I wonder why you need so
>> strongly not to believe. As I said to a communis
>The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I believe only in the purity of math. Everything
> else is nonsense.
> Humans are fundamentally evil creatures who deserve
> to die.
My cats and horses would disagree with those
statements:
Mice, voles, birds and deer (yes, deer!) are not
nonsense.
Grass
The Fool said:
Does it effect the underlying math the all physics is based around?
Yes, it does. It applies to any mathematical system that includes
ordinary arithmetic.
Rich
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> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Julia Thompson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:55 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> That assumes he goes to parties. He
Jim Sharkey wrote:
The Fool wrote:
I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is nonsense.
Humans are fundamentelly evil creatures who deserve to die.
You must be great fun at parties.
Jim
That assumes he goes to parties. He might not.
Julia
_
> I don't think it's good to mention "sola scriptura" and leave out Luther's
> other two -- "sola fide" and "sola gratia." It wasn't just scripture, but
> faith and grace as well.
I was thinking in terms of teaching authority...Church teachings were not to
be used.
As an aside, would you agre
On Apr 12, 2006, at 12:20 PM, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 12/04/2006, at 10:01 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Of course, it's possible that the answer you get will be
"RTF¹M" . . .
Now there's a good shortcut to atheism. :-)
Not necessarily, if as some have suggested the Bible is a record
of G
--
From: Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 4/12/06, The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is nonsense.
Seriously? And what do you do with Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem?
-
Does it effect the underlying math the all physic
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of The Fool
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:12 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> "The most disastrous consequences must f
On 4/12/06, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> There was a lot of payback of collaborators with the Moors,
No, no. It was the Moops!
>
> Fundamentalism found it's foundation in the Reformation. Luther, Calvin,
> et. al. needed to find an authority apart from the Catholic church. It w
On 4/12/06, The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is nonsense.
Seriously? And what do you do with Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem?
Nick
--
Nick Arnett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messages: 408-904-7198
___
> From: Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> But, they were not fundamentalists. The two great doctors of the
church
> (Agustine and Aquinis) did not emphasize a literal interpretation of
> scripture. The authority of the Church was the keys of the kingdom
being
> passed on from Peter to his succ
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charlie Bell
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:43 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
>
>
> Really? What was the Inquistion all
From: Charlie Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 12/04/2006, at 10:01 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course, it's possible that the answer you get will be
>>> "RTF¹M" . . .
>>
>> Now there's a good shortcut to atheism. :-)
>
>
> Not necessarily, if as some have suggested the Bible is a record o
Sure. But, I guess you're just as likely to find that smiting and
stoning is recommended as a solution as kiss-and-make-up is...
That's when it is advisable to request further light and knowledge
in the form of another hint . . .
"Lord, what sort of rock should I lob at his head?"
;)
Char
At 02:20 PM Wednesday 4/12/2006, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 12/04/2006, at 10:01 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Of course, it's possible that the answer you get will be
"RTF¹M" . . .
Now there's a good shortcut to atheism. :-)
Not necessarily, if as some have suggested the Bible is a record of
G
> From: Andrew Crystall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> On 11 Apr 2006 at 7:22, The Fool wrote:
>
> > If you ingore some minor gibberish about buddism:
> >
> > <>
>
> I find your faith in atheism is touching. I wonder why you need so
> strongly not to believe. As I said to a communist friend of mine t
On 12/04/2006, at 10:01 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Of course, it's possible that the answer you get will be
"RTF¹M" . . .
Now there's a good shortcut to atheism. :-)
Not necessarily, if as some have suggested the Bible is a record of
God's dealings with other humans. Then it might gi
On 12/04/2006, at 10:17 PM, Jim Sharkey wrote:
The Fool wrote:
I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is nonsense.
Humans are fundamentelly evil creatures who deserve to die.
You must be great fun at parties.
*snort* Lucky I wasn't drinking just then. :D
Charlie
_
The Fool wrote:
>I believe only in the purity of math. Everything else is nonsense.
>
>Humans are fundamentelly evil creatures who deserve to die.
You must be great fun at parties.
Jim
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On 12/04/2006, at 7:09 PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
In Lutheranism and most of Protestantism, Christianity isn't about
doing
good in order to get into heaven, even though that's often how it
comes
across.
That I know - I was raised C of E, and was heavily involved in
Christian fellowship thr
At 01:49 PM Wednesday 4/12/2006, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 12/04/2006, at 8:59 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
One answer is that if there really is a God, you could try asking
Him what He wants you to do . . .
Sure. Like I say, it's highly personal.
Of course, it's possible that the answer you
On 12/04/2006, at 8:59 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
One answer is that if there really is a God, you could try asking
Him what He wants you to do . . .
Sure. Like I say, it's highly personal.
Of course, it's possible that the answer you get will be "RTF¹M" . . .
Now there's a good shortcu
On 11 Apr 2006 at 7:22, The Fool wrote:
> If you ingore some minor gibberish about buddism:
>
> <>
I find your faith in atheism is touching. I wonder why you need so
strongly not to believe. As I said to a communist friend of mine the
other day, he takes his Marx a lot more seriously than I ta
At 04:35 PM Tuesday 4/11/2006, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 12/04/2006, at 12:33 AM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Faith in a deity/deities/force/whatever is one thing. It's highly
personal. But faith in a book is something else, and that's where the
argument starts - if the book says one thing, but a fol
On 11 Apr 2006 at 15:31, Dave Land wrote:
> On Apr 11, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Charlie Bell wrote:
>
> > On 11/04/2006, at 6:33 PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
> >
> >> He also seems to fail to recognize the difference between
> >> irrational and
> >> non-rational beliefs. And this statement, " Religious mod
On 4/11/06, Charlie Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Then what is it? Many Christians or theists have this idea of the
> Bible's teachings as a moral guide, but much of the moral precept
> they take from it (or imagine that's in there) is simply what they
> want to take from it. There are good
Dan Minette wrote:
One thing that struck methe fundamental reason for the last big European
war was simply "elbow room."
Generally the term used is lebensraum, or "living room", which is a
German word. It was not the reason for the war, but it was a large part
of Germany's policy towar
On 12/04/2006, at 7:45 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
I was saying that social, political and economic conditions in the
Middle
East have created an environment favorable to recruiting
terrorists by
demagogues. My point was to argue against focusing on religion as
the
reason there are terrorist
On 12/04/2006, at 4:18 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
If one is Christian, then the Incarnate Word of God (Jesus) has the
greatest
authority.
Precisely what I was taught.
I never met someone who was really a literalist
concerning the whole of scriptures.they just don't count their
non-litera
On 12/04/2006, at 3:55 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
Non-fundamentalists Protestants (including a number of Evangelical
Christians I know) agree that inspiration is not dictation. One
common
theme, which I think you agree with, is that literalism puts God in
a box
that is far too small.
That I
On 12/04/2006, at 1:57 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:
I have discussed religion with a
number of Lutherans other than Nick (mainly Germanic Europeans,
either in Cyprus or in Australia), and all bar one of those still
practicing that I have met in the flesh (so 6 or 7) are biblical
literalists.
Are y
On 12/04/2006, at 1:31 AM, Dave Land wrote:
One view -- a minority view in Christianity -- is that the Bible
is a human product, not a divine one.
Or that it is a divine one but with the errors inherent in human
transcription, which is a similar but distinct position to the one
that yo
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Nick Arnett
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:05 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> On 4/11/06, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Doug Pensinger
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:17 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> Dan wrote:
>
> > While conservatio
On 4/11/06, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > I didn't say that poverty results in or correlates to terrorism. It's
> not
> > that simple.
>
> But without correlation, then it's hard to identify it as a major cause.
I don't think you're following me. I didn't say that poverty is a
Dan wrote:
While conservation policies would have some effect, one can see a much
better correlation between changes in prices and changes in oil usage
than in governmental policies and the use of oil.
In the eight years following Carter's "moral equivelent of war", during a
period of econo
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Nick Arnett
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:47 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> On 4/11/06, Dan Minette &
Nick Arnett wrote:
> Plenty of Christians go astray by worshiping the Bible.
I suppose I get kinda wierd on this subject. But I agree with Nick's
statement above.
IMO, the study of Man and the study of the Universe are much more
important than the study of the Bible and are much more likely to
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charlie Bell
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:23 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
>
>
> So how do you decide which parts of
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dave Land
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:31 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> One view -- a minority view in Christianity --
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Doug Pensinger
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:03 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> Nick wrote:
>
> I wrote:
> >
>
Nick wrote:
I wrote:
No, that's not obvious at all. I'm pretty sure that many of his
recruits
are middle/upper income types. I would argue that it is the wealth of
the region that stimulates terrorism and that if the Middle East was
economically and politically irrelevant there would be
On 4/11/06, Charlie Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I have discussed religion with a
> number of Lutherans other than Nick (mainly Germanic Europeans,
> either in Cyprus or in Australia), and all bar one of those still
> practicing that I have met in the flesh (so 6 or 7) are biblical
> liter
On 4/11/06, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Supporting that, we don't have a major concern with Bangladesh terrorists
> or
> Zambian terrorists (two countries that have been poor for a long time).
I didn't say that poverty results in or correlates to terrorism. It's not
that simpl
On 4/11/06, Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> No, that's not obvious at all. I'm pretty sure that many of his recruits
> are middle/upper income types. I would argue that it is the wealth of the
> region that stimulates terrorism and that if the Middle East was
> economically and pol
On Apr 11, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 11/04/2006, at 6:33 PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
He also seems to fail to recognize the difference between
irrational and
non-rational beliefs. And this statement, " Religious moderation
is just a
cherry-picking of scripture, ultimately," is ri
On 12/04/2006, at 12:33 AM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Faith in a deity/deities/force/whatever is one thing. It's highly
personal. But faith in a book is something else, and that's where the
argument starts - if the book says one thing, but a follower
disagrees and does something else, where's the
At 04:22 PM Tuesday 4/11/2006, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 11/04/2006, at 6:33 PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
He also seems to fail to recognize the difference between
irrational and
non-rational beliefs. And this statement, " Religious moderation
is just a
cherry-picking of scripture, ultimately," is ri
On 11/04/2006, at 6:33 PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
He also seems to fail to recognize the difference between
irrational and
non-rational beliefs. And this statement, " Religious moderation
is just a
cherry-picking of scripture, ultimately," is ridiculous. It
implies that
fundamentalism is
On Apr 11, 2006, at 11:36 AM, William T Goodall wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006, at 4:33PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
But
there's no doubt in my mind that I also choose my theology because
of my
political and social beliefs. They are inseparable and
intertwined, as I
suspect is true for people all over
On 11 Apr 2006, at 4:33PM, Nick Arnett wrote:
But
there's no doubt in my mind that I also choose my theology because
of my
political and social beliefs. They are inseparable and
intertwined, as I
suspect is true for people all over the world.
So religion is just believing whatever you f
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Doug Pensinger
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:43 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:33:08 -0700, Nick
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:33:08 -0700, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Isn't it blindingly obvious that the bin Ladens of this world find
followers because of the social and economic conditions where they
recruit?
No, that's not obvious at all. I'm pretty sure that many of his recruits
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Nick Arnett
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:33 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Great Sam Harris Interview
>
>
> Harris argues that terrorists apparently ar
On 4/11/06, The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If you ingore some minor gibberish about buddism:
>
> <>
For anyone who is wondering, as I was, who the heck Sam Harris is...
"With the publication of his 2004 New York Times bestseller, "The End of
Faith," a full-throttle attack on religion, S
If you ingore some minor gibberish about buddism:
<>
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