My copy is the 1989 British edition published by Leo Cooper and has all the maps. Hope this helps.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from Alex Calvo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: --
Hi,
I would like to buy a copy of this book but from some Amazon comments it seems no
Everything I've seen is that WSC went out of his way to be a good parent to his childen, remembering his own childhood. That's what should be emphasized; far too many "great men" made much less effort than Churchill - remember where he was when WWI broke out? In Norfolk, on the beach with h
I assume many of you have seen the PBS documentary on the Dr. Crippen case. It occurred when WSC was Home Secretary and he signed off on the death warrant. Given the evidence at the time, I can't disagree with his decision, especially given his well-known (from his Boer War experiences) empa
Ted Briggs, the last surviving of the three survivors of HMS Hood, has died at age 85. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/3140770/Ted-Briggs.html
We shall not see their like again. Ave atque vale.
Jonathan Hayes
Michael Barthorp calls it "The Anglo-Boer War" and this is probably the most historically correct term as both sides did their darndest to keep the black population out of the conflict. When I was living in Britain, WWI was always referred to as "the Kaiser's War" and WWII "Hitler's War". C
"Trust the people" was of course a phrase he inherited from his father. I can't disagree with that phrase -it's probably the best succinct _expression_ of true democracy ever written (or spoken? - assistance please !!)
The true test of democracy is not how you get the scum in - it's how
As a quotation freak myself, I'm not amazed at how many quotations are recycled. I'm sure it would not be difficult to find that many of Churchill's "bon-est" mots came from previous sources. But why should this be a deprecation? Surely it is a tribute to Churchill that he knew how to quot
I recently noticed a mention of Helen Duncan in a book in a used book store (that's where you find all the books you didn't know you wanted), who was tried and convicted in England of witchcraft! The illustrations included a minute from WSC to the Home Secretary asking why "this obsolete tomf
OOps, I forgot to say this was in April, 1944.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from [EMAIL PROTECTED]: --
I recently noticed a mention of Helen Duncan in a book in a used book store (that's where you find all the books you didn't know you wanted), who was tried a
Hmm There certainly was a lot of paranoia before the D-Day landings. I seem to recall investigations of crossword puzzles whose clues were the codewords of various D-Day operations. But, still. a Witchcraft Act!!! The mind boggles. At least she wasn't executed. Exodus 22:18.
J
The sparkling wine producers of the Champagne region of France have waged a quite successful legal campaign to prohibit any sparkling wine from other than the Champagne region of France from using any word even resembling "champagne" to describe their product, claiming consumers would be fool
Any estimated pub date on Prof. Muller's eagerly awaited annotated "River War"? Yes, we ARE looking forward to instantly grapping a copy.
Jonathan Hayes
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article5446082.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/4077305/Joan-Bright-Astley.html
Jonathan Hayes
"General Eisenhower on the Military Churchill - a Conversation with Alistair Cooke", W.W. Norton & Co., 1970
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from "Scott Manning" : -- Hello All,I'm trying to find quotes by some world leaders of the past few decades discussing th
Those of us on the 1999 South Africa trip will have great memories of Elizabeth Nel and her husband Frans. You may find this link interesting.
http://www.foxnews,com/story/0,2933,482148,00.html
Jonathan Hayes
Since Prof. Muller is doing it, we can expect that it will be (a) definitive, and (b) well-organized and put together. Believe me, this is not a combination often seen in scholarly works. I sometimes think one requirement for a PhD is to have flunked English composition.
I am certainly no
Neilson obviously can't have a very high opinion of prewar European leaders if he does think they were less tyrannical than Hitler. You have to be strong to be a tyrant and none of the democratic ones were. Who was this General Robert Wood? The name is not familiar.
Jonathan Hayes
--
Holmes was inconsistent in this: I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge that might be useful to him gets crowd
Hoo, boy! Getting into dangerous waters here, chaps! However, Churchill was an excellent athlete (fencing, polo), physically brave (almost to the point of foolhardiness), a lover of fine cigars and whisky. You can choose the Churchill you want.
Jonathan hayes
-- Original mess
Pol Roger champagne, of course.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from Anthony Calabrese : --
Occasionally, we have gotten into heated discussions on this list for someone invoking Churchill in support of a current political position, be it Iraq, Iran, taxes, soci
Well, well. You learn something new everyday. I had no idea anybody paid any attention anymore to MSNBC's ravings. I wouldn't believe them if they said today was Tuesday.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from Rich H : -- > > I don't know if the Churchill family
In today's Wall Street Journal, Dennis Berman in his column, "The Game", states: "As Winston Churchill might put it, GMAC is a financial black hole stuffed into a governance black box."
He couldn't have stretched or twisted that one much more! Poor Sir Winston - the things done in his name
Ah, well, ah, well. I don't watch Fox and, in spite of what my wife says, I'm not a lunatic. However, since I am a combat veteran, I am a potential terrorist.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from "Smith, James M" : --
Well, well. We are not all Fox lunatics
The latest issue of Air & Space magazine - a Smithsonian publication - has a very good article "Travels with Churchill". I know all listmembers will enjoy it. We will have one quibble - the lead photo was not taken in 1942, but in 1944 and it's not just any "anxious young soldier" in the p
I guess we all would prefer hardbacks but the cost differential is something horrendous. Publishers make economic decisions on these things. It's been a number of years since I've spent much time in France, but it used to be practically no books there were hardback.
Jonathan Hayes
---
Reading the obituary of an English clergyman whom I'd known slightly, I saw the statement that his fluency in the Russian language had helped him greatly at Bletchly Park in WW2.I am certainly not surprised that the British were spying on the Russians - it would have been quite irresponsible o
One question would be, was it part of his job to visit hospitals? The only time that I can think of when it would have been was when he was a battalion commander in the Royal Scots Fusiliers when (if possible) it would have been part of his job to have visited wounded from his command. Of c
Architecture needs symmetry?
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from "Antoine Capet" : -- > > Seen in a review tonight (last sentence): > > "as John Buchan liked to remind his friend Winston Churchill, good history, > like good architecture, needs symmetry" > > http:
Lloyd George actually was a pretty good manager of the war - much better than Asquith. Where he fell down - and this was a mistake Churchill did NOT make - was in failing to sack Haig. That the German offensives of 1918 failed was solely due to the resilience of the French poilus and
I will not bring politics into the discussion. But I refuse to believe that WSC would ever have acted as despicably as the late Senator Kennedy did at Chappaquiddick. Had he not been a Kennedy in Massachusetts, he would have spent a goodly number of years in the slammer.
The media has bee
I do suppose that Teddy Kennedy had an occasional nip, but I don't recall that ever having an effect on him in his work so I would regard that as irrelevant. Booze does not seem to have been a problem for him. I know there are innuendos, but I prefer to stick to hard facts.
According to h
It is my understanding that WSC wrote all his own speeches himself (probably a good part of the reason they were so good). I also believe that was normal procedure during that time. Does anyone know when that salutory practice went out of fashion? With the current proliferation of speechwri
I couldn't find Dinners with Churchill on amazon.co.uk either. Where would it be available?
Dinner with Mugabe - that's a pretty big contrast!
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from "Antoine Capet" : -- > > > Neither did I. My first "hit" on Amazon.com when ent
Churchill was playing poker there too. "Don't just assume you'll get the Royal Navy. If you don't help us survive now, it might be the Germans who get the Royal Navy." I have no doubt FDR understood WSC's meaning loud and clear.
Steel true, blade straight
Jonathan Hayes
---
It's not a quote and I didn't mean it as such. It's my view of the essence of the message that I believe Churchill was trying to send. No one - let alone Churchill - would ever have put it so bluntly. If you look at what was going on between them - this is the message Churchill was conve
I suppose it's too much to ask that people follow our Patron's strictures about never assuming what Churchill would do in a modern situation. Sometimes it's harmless - "would Chuchill Twitter?" - but more often it seems to follow the logic pattern:
Churchill did things which were coura
I'll buy off on the wit - as for the rest: his great friend, Lord Birkenhead said "When Winston is right, he is very right. When he is wrong, oh my God."
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from "Linne, Walter P" : --
Winston Churchill was a product of his
According to Newman's Birsds of South Africa, the sakabulu is the long-tailed widowbird and is noted as a "common resident".
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from "Paul Courtenay" : -- > > The best authority is Doug Russell in his 2005 book "Winston Churchill, > So
I don't care if it's called The Churchill Arms or The Flying Thundermug, the only relevant concern is, does it have Real Ale? If yes, then go and happily quaff a pint. Otherwise eschew the premises for an establishment where Mine Host draws the proper cask-conditioned.
Jonathan Hayes
I'm sure everyone found the article on Egbert Roscoe in the latest Finest Hour
to be of interest. I think you'll also find the following site of interest.
Have your sound on and play the attached mp3 file.
http://www.otr.com/orch_hell.shtml
Jonathan Hayes
--
You received this message becaus
If this is true, it's more bizarre than normal.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/theroyalfamily/6624594/Revealed-the-Duke-and-Duchess-of-Windsors-secret-plot-to-deny-the-Queen-the-throne.html
It's obvious WSC had no inkling of this. Had he known of it, I think Britain's
first thermon
The "Deserve Victory" poster appears to be a "son of" the iconic Kitchener
poster "Your Country Needs You" which was cloned into Uncle Sam for the United
States. Hardly surprising - when you've got somethin that works that well,
milk it! The change of phrase comes out just right.
Jonathan Hay
Good question - it's obviously winter and out-of-doors. It's in an
industrial setting ("cloth-cap" workers in background). Churchill's binoculars
are official RAF Observer Corps issue. There are a number of photos of
Churchill with binoculars, but the only one I can think of where he had th
I think Clementine did the world a service. Does anyone know what Sutherland's
personal feelings toward Churchill were? It's looks like the sort of painting
you'd do of someone you didn't like very well.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from richard geschke :
--
No
If you've been to Chartwell, you've undoubtably noticed that the bricks were
laid with truly professional skill. Indeed, as many have noticed, Churchill
was a member of the bricklayers' union.
Churchill did a number of various things in his life, but it should be noted
that he never did anythi
I think the most significant thing about all this is how Churchill, after all
these years, keeps getting dragged out as a symbol of what ever the latest
hobby horse is. Much more than FDR or Eisenhower, for example. Poor WSC; he
wouldn't recognize most of this from Adam.
Any really great man
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/politics-obituaries/7352232/Winston-Churchill.html
This does not give the cause of death.
Jonathan Hayes
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Darn good question, Antoine. While I don't know the answer, I would suspect
that (as is usually the case), the Daily Telegraph was providing the financial
backing for the project - which undoubtably was extremely expensive.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from "Antoine Capet" :
Dunno about online resources, but the book "W.S.C. A Cartoon Biography" by
Fred Urquhart (Cassells, 1955) should give you everything you're looking for.
www.bookfinder.com has it readily available for under $20.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Original message from Perpetuo991 :
--
There are several photos of WSC wearing that outfit on the "Prince of Wales" in
1940 - which would be stretching the defintion of "Royal Tacht" quite a bit!
But I'm wondering - is that uniform really that of the Royal Yacht Squadron or
is it that of Trinity House?
Jonathan Hayes
--
I'll be making a trip to the WW1 battlefields - Ypres and the Somme - in a
couple of weeks, and, of course, one of the places I'd like to see is Lawrence
Farm, Churchill's HQ. Only where, exactly, is it? None of the Churchillian
histories are any help; Major and Mrs. Holt say nothing about it
You are right; Greece was one of Il Duce's mistakes. He was jealous of
Hitler's successes and wanted one of his own. Hitler was not a happy camper
when he heard about it.
What is being neglected is that Yugoslavia had also gone pro-Ally. Hitler
could not have invaded Russia with that flank o
Thanks to all who responded on this thread. A great bunch of people. I'll
still be in France when Jim Lancaster goes, so I won't be able to give him any
assistance, but hopefully with the information he has from this thread he won't
need more from my poor efforts.
I, and I am certain, Jim wil
At six p.m., WSC was asked by King George VI to form a government. He said he
would do so.
A great moment in history.
Jonathan Hayes
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You are SO right! That must have been an amazing moment. I figured all
Churchillians were already familiar with that, so didn't clutter it up. But it
says volumes about both WSC and George VI - all positive.
I'm afraid they don't make them like that any more.
Jonathan Hayes
-- Or
I hate to say it, Carey, but this sort of stuff is practically être de rigueur
these days. The only thing that works is to be savage - calling them
intellectually inferior for trying to rewrite history. I hate not being nice,
but being nice in these cases is water off a duck's back.
Jonathan
Didn't Churchill say apropos of another subject entirely "This is the sort of
nonsense up with which I will not put?" I spent a lot of time in the U.S. Air
Force sitting nuclear alert. On that basis, perhaps Mr. Lackey would therefore
categorize me as a potential mass murderer and state terror
I am as fusty an old curmudgeon as anyone on this listserv. I personally would
not go for this sort of thing - BUT, I'm not trying to sell anything to
anybody. Big difference.
If this sort of stuff appeals to the younger set, why not make use of it to get
your message across? Sounds perfe
This is really a two part question. First, is when did the forward motion of
the Axis stop and second, when did the forward motion of the Allies start?
I would say, in the West, it was Alamein and Torch. In the Pacific,
Guadalcanal for both. In Russia, Kursk for the first, not sure about the
One area which has always surprised me a bit as not getting a lot of interest
is Churchill the athlete. He was public school fencing champion and scored two
of the four goals in the polo match when the 4th Hussars won the champoinship.
He continued playing polo into his fifties. Worth a menti
It's always a good day when the latest Finest Hour pops through the mail slot.
I noticed a page on "Tory Democracy". I recall reading somewhere that someone
asked Lord Randolph what Tory Democracy was. He replied "I'm not sure, but I
believe it is principally opportunism."
Si non è vero, è
I make it a habit to fact check absolutely everything I read as I am very much
aware of confirmation bias (i.e., if you think person X is a low-down ornery
polecat who would steal the wheels off a baby carriage, and someone says X
cheats at cards, you'll probably believe it. But do you know whe
Which just goes to show there is nothing new under the sun and WSC's admonition
"Study history!" is always relevant. The Venetians attached sponsons to their
warships to shallow their draft enough to enable them to enter the lagoon. I
doubt the Venetians were the first to do this sort of thing
Churchill was not unathletic, however. Public schools fencing champion, scored
two of the four goals in the polo match where the 4th Hussars won the
championship, played polo into his fifties. Probably more of a jock than the
Governor.
Jonathan Hayes
--- On Fri, 8/27/10, David Freeman wrot
This does not pass the smell test. Excuse me, but would anyone in anything
resembling their right mind acquiese to the serious degredation of their
fighting force - just to persuade another person to come in?
This proposition is put forth by complete and utter fools. I am getting a
little to
A somber analysis. Unfortunately, I must agree with much of it. In regards to
the present lamentable recrudescence of anti-Semitism, both in Europe and the
United States, I have always regarded anti-Semitism as an infallible indication
of interlectual inferiority.
Jonathan Hayes
--- On Wed,
Probably many of you already know this, but for the benefit of those who don't:
I've always been mildly intrigued by WSC's friend Bendor, Duke of
Westminister. "Bendor" sounds a bit odd to transatlantic ears, but then so do
a lot of otther English names, so didn't give it further tho
I, of course, fully recognize Prof. Muller's most assiduous efforts and
understand that publishers' time tables are measured in millenia, but would it
be possible to have a progress report on the annotated River War?
I admire Prof. Muller's restraint. At this point, I would be interviewing
as
To say this is really bad is an understatement. I have no sympathy with them
- many an American family would be thrilled to only be paying L9,000 a year
for college instead of the $50,000 which is becoming the norm here.
We really can't compare - in the '30s the Oxford Union debated "Resol
Check out http://www.historynet.com/stalin-the-puppetmaster.htm
Basically, it proposes that Stalin was a far better negotiator than either WSC
or FDR and so was able to get everything he wanted without giving anything up.
I found it a very interesting article.
Jonathan Hayes
--
You receive
Stalin was going to take it, no question. But WSC and FDR didn't have to agree.
Jonathan Hayes
--- On Mon, 1/3/11, Carey Stronach wrote:
From: Carey Stronach
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Stalin vs. Churchill and Roosevelt
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 5:2
I didn't say they should have taken military action - that would have been
obviously impossible. The electorate in neither Britain or America would have
stood for it. But there was leverage. We'll probably never know the full
impact of Lend Lease on Russia, but it was significant. Stalin was
Edward III? Wasn't he dead?
Jonathan Hayes
--- On Fri, 1/28/11, Stan A. Orchard wrote:
From: Stan A. Orchard
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: The King's Speech
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, January 28, 2011, 1:44 PM
It should be pointed out that the abdication crisis wa
As Churchillians, I imagine we have at least a passing interest in cavalry
charges, so I thought this obit might not be totally off-topic.
Jonathan Hayes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/8334018/Mario-Traverso.html
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go
For those unacquainted with wastewater treatment, sewers are not generally
"flushed". They are usually designed to gravity flow to the treatment plant,
or, if gravity flow is not sufficient, pumping stations are included in the
plan. There is never any "flushing" as we would generally understa
The painting is listed as C247 in David Coombs' book, Sir Winston Churchill's
Life Through his Paintings, circa 1930, Pont du Gard. Owned by Arabella
Churchill and sold at Sotheby's, New York in 1981 for $10,000.
Jonathan Hayes
--- On Wed, 3/16/11, Antoine Capet wrote:
From: Antoine Capet
Well, they probably would have liked it in Churchill's time. And at least
they're getting something for their 30,000 pounds.
Jonathan Hayes
--- On Thu, 3/31/11, David Freeman wrote:
From: David Freeman
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Churchill's old school in the news
To: "Churchill Chat"
Date:
If it hadn't been for Dowding, the Battle of Britain would have been lost. It
was Dowding who pushed the development of radar (Prof. Lindemann was opposed to
it), it was Dowding who pushed the development and acquisition of the eight-gun
fighter. It was Dowding who established the command and
Another thing that I've been thinking about recently is Churchill's moral
courage. I think especially of his "blood, toil, tears and sweat" speech.
He'd only been Prime Minister a few days. There were many in his own party who
distrusted him and felt Halifax should have been made PM; he depen
The horrors of the Holocaust were certainly real, but one has to ask the
question, what COULD have been done? And, realistically, the answer has to be
- not much. The Holocaust occurred in the geographic middle of the Nazi
empire, well away from any possible military action. Those suggesting
I've recently published my own book - which has nothing to do with WSC which is
why I haven't posted it on the listserv. I don't like to go off-topic.
But it got me thinking about a probably apocryphal Churchill story. It seems
WSC sent a copy of one of his books to his cousin, Lord Londonderr
I could easily be wrong on who it was. These type of stories have a habit of
attaching themselves to all sorts of people. Still, the family may have
thought
it was funny - it is the type of thing which is funny well afterward, but I
wonder what WSC thought?
Jonathan
_
I was reading an article in which WSC was quoted: "the Balkans produce more
history than they can consume."
Felicitous turn of phrase! But - is it real? If so, where did he say it?
Jonathan Hayes
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I noticed a headline in the Daily Telegraph - "Winston Churchill made history
- David Cameron never will". Leaving aside the article content - which I
wasn't
interested in anyway - I had to take note that almost 50 years after his death,
WSC is still headline material. As Churchill Centre m
Somehow when I see the word "launch", I always think of smacking a bottle of
champagne across the bow. Hope that didn't happen in Ottawa.
Best Churchillian wishes to Ottawa - we're thrilled to have you on board!
Jonathan Hayes
From: John David Olsen
To: C
In case you haven't heard this. Download it and play it for your family on
Christmas Eve.
http://www.otr.com/ra/christmas/1941-12-24 MBS White House Christmas Tree
Ceremony.mp3
Jonathan Hayes
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Clicking on the link ain't going to work; you have to type the whole thing in -
including the spaces indicated. Bit of a nuisance.
Jonathan Hayes
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You can get it now at www.amazon.co.uk. I've ordered many books from them and
they have no problem in shipping to the former colonies. My recently published
book, No Lilies or Violets, is also available from amazon.co.uk, as well as
amazon.com. (Shameless self-promotional plug).
Best regards
Well, I figured that Canadians would have the sophisticated discernment to
appreciate true quality writing.
And as Churchill wrote to his mother (this may not be 100% correct). "This is
a
pushing age and we must push as hard as we can."
I've ordered Cita Stelzer's book.
Jonathan Hayes
__
That sounds very un-Churchillian to me. Both his physical and moral courage
were of very high calibre.
Jonathan Hayes
From: Stan A. Orchard
To: ChurchillChat
Sent: Sat, January 21, 2012 1:57:30 PM
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Yet Another Churchill Quote?
Wit
"South African Memories" by Lady Sarah Wilson, WSC's aunt is available for free
download at gutenberg.org and is a jolly good read. The Boer War from the
other side of South Africa than where WSC was. Quite a feisty lady!
The Malakand Field Force and River War are also available for free down
It seems to have been an instance of "plausible deniability". I would find it
very difficult to believe that neither the US nor the British governments knew
what he was going to say, but since he was a private citizen and not a
governmental office holder (other than MP), they could say it was h
Mr. McMenahim's article states "Only six years later, German civilians were
dying of starvation as a consequence of the British fleet's successful blockade
of German ports." as though that was something heinous.
Excuse me, Mr. McMenahim, but we are talking about war. Those of us who have
been
I stand by my comments, Mr. McMenamin. War is war - it is not a vicar's
garden party. Inter arma leges silent as the Romans used to say.
Do you really believe there is any such thing as "international law" when a
country believes it is fighting for it's life? I would point out that I was
Boy, did everybody read me wrong. Did I really muck it up that much or does
every body have their blinkers on?
Jonathan Hayes
From: Johan Arve
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, March 4, 2012 10:13:30 PM
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Finest Hou
According to the Wall Street Journal this morning, Churchill's writings will
soon be published in electronic form. I have a sneaking suspicion he would
approve.
Jonathan Hayes
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To post to this
Excellent - very happy to know that.
From: "Editor, Finest Hour"
To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com
Cc: ChurchillChat@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, June 19, 2012 8:12:11 AM
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: WSC Goes Electronic
Jonathan: I had the pleasure of helping
www.ManyBooks.net has Malakand Field Force, River War, London to Ladysmith,
River War and Liberalism and the Social Problem for free download. I have no
idea about what editions these are. www.gutenberg.org has, plus the above and
more, South African Memories by Lady Sarah Wilson (WSC's aunt)
I think this is a bit of Fisher humor. It appears to be a play on the Order of
St. Michael and St. George, which has three ranks: Companion (CMG), Knight
Commander (KCMG) and Knight Grand Cross (GCMG). These initials were commonly
translated as CMG - "Call Me God", KCMG - "Kindly Call Me God"
It's Groucho Marx - who cares whether it's true or not?
Jonathan Hayes
From: David Freeman
To: Churchill Chat
Sent: Wed, November 28, 2012 8:11:58 PM
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Groucho Marx talking about Winston Churchill
Colleagues,
I don't know how much
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