Steven Noels wrote:
Santiago Gala wrote:
When I said:
Just tell them. I think they are all PMC Chairs are subscribed to
board, so it should be easy to tell them there to
Sideway comment from my little peanut gallery: this is (only) the second
time I overheard that PMC chairs can subscribe to bo
Santiago Gala wrote:
...
Another troublesome and interesting case is incubation processes. There
are messages going back and forth between the incubator and the
relevant pmc to take the project, and quite often the final acceptance
decision is not documented anywhere, or barely so. And the pr
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:25:09 +0200
Santiago Gala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (both in the harsh criticism trend, by one or the other, every one of
> us is in the role at times, and in the sense that we learn that we can
> survive to it and fight against it and be actually supported by other
>
Steven Noels wrote:
> Santiago Gala wrote:
>>> Just tell them. I think they are all PMC Chairs are subscribed to
>>> board, so it should be easy to tell them there to
>
> Sideway comment from my little peanut gallery: this is (only) the second
> time I overheard that PMC chairs can subscribe t
Santiago Gala wrote:
When I said:
Just tell them. I think they are all PMC Chairs are subscribed to
board, so it should be easy to tell them there to
Sideway comment from my little peanut gallery: this is (only) the second
time I overheard that PMC chairs can subscribe to board@ - in three
year
El miércoles, 22 octu, 2003, a las 06:18 Europe/Madrid, Phil Steitz
escribió:
Maybe I am way off base here, but I see the whole community as
responsible. The Board and PMCs (relatively stable "authorities") have
to exist for legal reasons and to make program-level decisions
(including how
El martes, 21 octu, 2003, a las 07:03 Europe/Madrid, Craig R.
McClanahan escribió:
One of the hardest things for many newcomers to Apache (or other open
source cultures that operate similarly) is the brusque-sounding tone
of many comments. It's not personal -- it's based on a (shared) goal
to
Phil Steitz wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Phil Steitz wrote:
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
...
I don't think that effective decision-making in a large organization
*requires* bureacracy.
You're right. It requires responsibility.
It's possible that an entity is responsible of something without
ha
On Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003, at 01:23 Europe/Rome, Tetsuya Kitahata
wrote:
"Condemn the offense but not the offender."
( Tsumi wo nikun de, hito wo nikuma zu )
I'll add this to my list of design patterns for community management.
Without this principle, e-mail communication might
soon end up with
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Phil Steitz wrote:
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
...
I don't think that effective decision-making in a large organization
*requires* bureacracy.
You're right. It requires responsibility.
It's possible that an entity is responsible of something without having
bureacracy in
I am not sure whether this proverb (?) can express
my feelings and one of my principles, however, I am
willing to put it here:
"Condemn the offense but not the offender."
( Tsumi wo nikun de, hito wo nikuma zu )
--
This principle might be really adaptable to Open Source
Software Communities, I
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:59 AM
> I don't think David and Sander did such a bad thing, they expressed
> their opinion, but I disliked the way they did and I wanted to
> apologize for the feeling you got out of this.
>
> You felt sad
Phil Steitz wrote:
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
...
I don't think that effective decision-making in a large organization
*requires* bureacracy.
You're right. It requires responsibility.
It's possible that an entity is responsible of something without having
bureacracy in place. In Apache it's main
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
Your comment about bureacracy is interesting. For the first time in my
life, I've spent the last three+ years working for a big company (Sun),
after working for organizations with < 500 employees previously in my
career. Apache's bureaucracy doesn't hold a candle t
I know, I shouldn't post this...
* Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Life is not fair.
[..]
> If you voluntarily chose to stay in a location where you can't get what
^^^
How did you get that impression?
> you need to keep up, you can't expect others to scale
I won't. Life is not fair. I have several customers there (Hofheim), so
I know about this.
Solution: Move. E.g. my last house move and the location of my office
were purely based on the number of carriers able to offer me bandwith
there. I live in this century, I want to interact with its technol
I don't want to drag this along forever, but I feel I need to be
precise because I don't want email communication to make it drier than
it is.
On Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003, at 09:07 Europe/Rome, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:52:16 +0200
Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
W
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:52:16 +0200
Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When I apologized it was because of the tone of the discussion and
> because the discussion took place in the wrong location (when
> foundation-wide entities start to deal with merit issues, the entire
>
> foundat
On Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003, at 07:03 Europe/Rome, Craig R. McClanahan
wrote:
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:02:35 -0400
(Subject: Re: Inappropriate use of announce@)
Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
tetsuya has a lot of energy, and i think we are seeing the
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:02:35 -0400
(Subject: Re: Inappropriate use of announce@)
Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
tetsuya has a lot of energy, and i think we are seeing the common
decay into inertia and conservatism common to groups as they grow
a
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:02:35 -0400
(Subject: Re: Inappropriate use of announce@)
Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> tetsuya has a lot of energy, and i think we are seeing the common
> decay into inertia and conservatism common to groups as they grow
> and age.
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
>
> Any by trying to build "an ideal world for yourself", you basically
> killed whatever enthusiasm or dedication Tetsuya showed. Because you
> offered no support or at least positive feedback but only "we don't like
> this format, this way of posting, this content,
* Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I liked the idea of a general "announce" list where all this stuff is
> sent and let my mail client sort it out. This is the 21st century. If
> you have bandwidth, disk space or download time concerns, you're either
> not using the right techno
On 20/10/2003, at 04:44, Rob Oxspring wrote:
we know that everybody has
his/her own preferences
Again I would have thought that most of us are grown up enough to
realise
that.
Therefore I wrote '... we [the ASF community] know ...' :)
so why don't we just go with a pull-model instead of
pushing
th
On 20/10/2003, at 04:43, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
Well, the threads on this and other similar topics showed that the
majority
of our community has a completely different point of view when it
comes
to information reception.
Compared to whom? To you, me or Tetsuyo?
EVERYBODY HAS HIS/HER OWN PR
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:13:35 +0200
(Subject: Re: Information channels, Re: Inappropriate use of announce@)
Nicola Ken Barozzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I recently read that the smaller an issue is, the bigger a discussion it
> gets, as everyone has something to say.
>
>
I recently read that the smaller an issue is, the bigger a discussion it
gets, as everyone has something to say.
This issue must be pretty trivial then.
In any case, who decides? What is the PMC or "something" overlooking
these things, that can give a reasonable decision and stop all this
nonse
I've been trying to stay out of all this but the logic here just made me
bite and chime in.
- Original Message -
From: "Erik Abele" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 12:38 PM
Subject: Information channels, Re: Inappropriate use of announce@
[
On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 13:38, Erik Abele wrote:
Hi,
> Well, the threads on this and other similar topics showed that the
> majority
> of our community has a completely different point of view when it comes
> to
> information reception.
Compared to whom? To you, me or Tetsuyo?
>
> To summariz
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> long ago, when the original httpd announce@apache.org got
> repurposed into a general announcement list, did we say
> anything about what subscribers could expect? do we say
> anything about it now on the page where people learn about
> the list
Sander Striker wrote:
>
> Also consider the people that are subscribed to the announce list, all 8304
> of them. I'm sure they didn't sign up to an announcement list to receive
> 43k emails. If they had wanted that, they would have subscribed to a
> newsletter... ;).
after any announcement to
As the discussion now shows *nobody* is in favour of Tetsuyas
resignation
and *everybody* appreciate[sd] his efforts but it also seems that there
exist some basic misunderstandings, at least I've lost the point
somewhere
last night...
On 20/10/2003, at 10:44, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
And th
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:37:23 +0200
(Subject: RE: Inappropriate use of announce@)
"Sander Striker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also consider the people that are subscribed to the announce list,
> all 8304 of them.
8304
Great! I have heard from Noel that the nu
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Joshua Slive wrote:
> I do believe that there have been some people getting a little too picky
> about "policies". In general in the Apache world, and especially in the
> case of the documentation, he who does the work should get to make the
> decisions. Suggesting that the
According to Stefano Mazzocchi:
> I *DO* agree that it is, IMO, better to use Noel's suggestion and send
> a short reminder of the newsletter with a link to the web site. I agree
> with Justin as well, nobody likes to read long emails, expecially when
> you didn't ask for them.
Well, I tend to
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
I very much enjoyed the hard work that Tetsuya put into the newsletter
and I'm very sad to see him step down because of such puny reasons as to
which mailing list this newsletter should be sent.
Me too on both points.
Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:[EMAIL PROTE
And then we end up with 200 mailinglists, each getting a single message
per month/week/year. Vey efficient. Verrry german. I love it!
Everything in its neat little box. Stamped, filed, put away.
I liked the idea of a general "announce" list where all this stuff is
sent and let my mail client s
Tetsuya,
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
You did a great job, as usual, on the newsletter, and you should
continue to do so, IMO.
+1, your contribution is very much appreciated.
-John K
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For addit
Joshua Slive wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
Nope. I have to resign.
Well, thanks for your contribution Tetsuya. I think it is a worthwhile
project, and I hope you reconsider or someone picks it up.
I do believe that there have been some people getting a little too pic
At 12:41 PM 20/10/2003, you wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Tetsuya
Kitahata wrote:
> Nope. I have to resign.
Well, thanks for your contribution Tetsuya. I think it is a
worthwhile
project, and I hope you reconsider or someone picks it up.
I do believe that there have been some people getting a litt
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> Nope. I have to resign.
Well, thanks for your contribution Tetsuya. I think it is a worthwhile
project, and I hope you reconsider or someone picks it up.
I do believe that there have been some people getting a little too picky
about "policies". I
> From: Erik Abele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Announce@ is for announcements, community@ for community musings, and
> *perhaps*
> newsletter@ is for the newsletter. That's it, simple, eh?
+1. (Can still put a short note in announce@)
Cheers,
Berin
This message was sent through MyMail http://w
Hi Tetsuya!
Many people is very interested and apreciate your effort in creating a
kind of "glue" for all the projects under the Apache umbrella. Here
include me too, for sure!
Tetsuya Kitahata dijo:
>
> Nope. I have to resign. The difference of the e-mail culture.
Hmm I can't believe that.
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:40:24 -0400
"Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ... It seems that the newsletter itself is going to the contrary.
> The newsletter is doing that job. All that was asked is that you
> post an announcement to announce@, not the entire contents. Why is
> that a
ositive
and adapt!
Cheers,
Berin
>
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Inappropriate use of announce@
> Date: 20/10/2003 9:20:39
> To: community@apache.org
>
>
> Nope. I have to resign. The difference of the e-mail culture.
> We, Japanese
On 20/10/2003, at 01:40, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
The original intention of the newsletter was "Newsletter
will be one of the *glue* of the communities in the ASF
umbrella
... It seems that the newsletter itself is going to the contrary.
The newsletter is doing that job. All that was asked is that
> The original intention of the newsletter was "Newsletter
> will be one of the *glue* of the communities in the ASF
> umbrella
> ... It seems that the newsletter itself is going to the contrary.
The newsletter is doing that job. All that was asked is that you post an
announcement to announce@,
am willing to resign.
Thank you for reading.
-- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:08:19 -0400
(Subject: RE: Inappropriate use of announce@)
"Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tetsuya,
>
> All that David was asking is that you post a SHORT announce
Tetsuya,
All that David was asking is that you post a SHORT announcement, like the
sample I posted, rather than the ENTIRE newsletter. That is all.
You did a great job, as usual, on the newsletter, and you should continue to
do so, IMO.
--- Noel
---
ter/editor.html
Thank you for reading and sorry for posting FAT mails twice
to announce@, before.
-- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:09:46 +0100
(Subject: Inappropriate use of announce@)
"David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I feel the posting of the
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