Re: [computer-go] Re: [Cgos-developers] CGOS 9x9 is down

2008-01-24 Thread Don Dailey
Michael Williams wrote: Just allow any login to superceed any previous login. This should go on the cgos-developers list.Briefly, I want to know what the bug is so that I'm not just sweeping it under the rug.Also I don't want to allow log in if you are actually playing a game or

[computer-go] Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Heikki Levanto
Everyone is looking at the top end of the scalability study http://cgos.boardspace.net/study/ But what happens in the low end? Both programs show linear progress to begin with, then a corner, and more (almost?) linear development. Fatman's curve has a clear break at 3 doublings, when it

[computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Hideki Kato
Heikki, The numbers of games are about 200 and their ratings' standard deviations (right of Elo) are 70 to 100, right now. To get 95% of reliability, you have to double them. Don't you think it's too early to conclude any? -Hideki Heikki Levanto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Everyone is looking at

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread steve uurtamo
it's a natural tendency to look for patterns in data as soon as you have any data at all. some of these patterns i'd be willing to bet will hold up over time -- but the bayesian in me would say that is simply because they have further given evidence for my prior beliefs. requiring everyone to

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Heikki Levanto
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 10:34:42PM +0900, Hideki Kato wrote: The numbers of games are about 200 and their ratings' standard deviations (right of Elo) are 70 to 100, right now. To get 95% of reliability, you have to double them. Don't you think it's too early to conclude any? Well, I am

Re: [computer-go] Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Jason House
On Jan 24, 2008 8:00 AM, Heikki Levanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone is looking at the top end of the scalability study http://cgos.boardspace.net/study/ But what happens in the low end? Both programs show linear progress to begin with, then a corner, and more (almost?) linear

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Magnus Persson
Quoting Heikki Levanto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Of course we can wait until we get more data. I just wanted to share my observation that the curves seem to change around the level where MC playouts tend to flatten out, and hear if anyone would have some insightful comments to that. Even with the risk

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Heikki Levanto
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 03:19:52PM +0100, Magnus Persson wrote: Nothing wrong with that, I do it myself all the time for my own tests. But I have tricked myself at lot of time plotting curves like this. Ok, when three people all tell me that I am jumping to conclusions, I am willing to

[computer-go] Triple-Ko Detection

2008-01-24 Thread wing
Michael, Your code works just fine as far as it is concerned, provided that the board already prevents simple-kos, and detects 2 passes as end of game and that you repeat the triple ko twice. This is your code: if(move[n-1] == move[n- 7] move[n-2] == move[n- 8]

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Don Dailey
Hi Hideki, No need to stop any of the weaker games since 99% of the compute time is consumed by the strongest half. Also, only the new mogo's will be scheduled to play until they catch up - however their opponent will almost always be the stronger players. The probability of one of them

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Don Dailey
Yes, several comments are right on the money. You cannot trust data based on less than a few hundred games - although you can clearly see very general trends (programs tend to get stronger.) You may have noticed the scale has been expanding ever since we started. Mogo13 was one time around

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Alain Baeckeroot
Le jeudi 24 janvier 2008, Don Dailey a écrit : Hi Hideki, No need to stop any of the weaker games since 99% of the compute time is consumed by the strongest half. Also, only the new mogo's will be scheduled to play until they catch up - however their opponent will almost always be the

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Don Dailey
FatMan is a CPU hog, I think it would be good to get a lot of data first, and then perhaps see what happens with FatMan 14.I would not put 15 in unless 14 showed an improvement. I hope to find an explanation for the sudden flattening out of FatMan, which could point to a general

[computer-go] out of topic: Bobby Fisher

2008-01-24 Thread Alain Baeckeroot
Hello http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/18/fischer_dead/ Alain. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Don Dailey
Ok, what the heck. Not enough data to draw any conclusions, but I broke out the white and black win percentages when both players were within specific 200 point ELO windows.I ignored all other games. rangewh bl wperc bperc - --- --- - - 1000-1199

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Don Dailey
I also checks what the results were when both players were within 200 ELO of each other and BOTH were at least 2400 ELO and the score is 89 - 88 in white's favor. So there doesn't seem to be any overwhelming advantage at these levels. - Don Don Dailey wrote: Ok, what the heck. Not

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Hideki Kato
Don Dailey: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Hideki, No need to stop any of the weaker games since 99% of the compute time is consumed by the strongest half. Also, only the new mogo's will be scheduled to play until they catch up - however their opponent will almost always be the stronger players. The

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Hideki Kato
steve uurtamo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: it's a natural tendency to look for patterns in data as soon as you have any data at all. some of these patterns i'd be willing to bet will hold up over time -- but the bayesian in me would say that is simply because they have further given evidence for my prior

Re: [computer-go] Re: Scalbility study: low end

2008-01-24 Thread Heikki Levanto
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 06:07:30PM -0500, Don Dailey wrote: FatMan is a CPU hog, I think it would be good to get a lot of data first, and then perhaps see what happens with FatMan 14.I would not put 15 in unless 14 showed an improvement. Fair enough! Although it is too early to say