That's true, MS did stack the deck to artificially exclude apple..I mean she
wanted a portable computer and Apple doesn't have one of those...she wanted
a reasonable price, and we KNOW Apple doesn't have reasonable prices. Man
how dishonest! Anyone needing a portable just buy an imac and lug
Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new
iMac?
db
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You forgot to insist that it must be brown.
What a silly, meaningless response this is.
I have this image of Tom sitting at home being deliberately obtuse,
seeing how much shit he can stir up on this list. It's really not worth
it to play his games.
I know. It has occurred to me more
Not sure how this got to be anything not a Mac is scum. I was
responding to criticism that MS does not sell hardware, but MS was
showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Their
cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's.
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
MS was showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper
than Apple's.
Still clinging to this myth? I guess it's as comforting to McFans as a pair
of fuzzy slippers, but, as was shown here long ago, the HP in question is
not even two months old.
Their cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.netwrote:
She wanted a LAPTOP!!!
Do you not understand that some people need a machine they can use in the
classroom, or on a plane, or working from their hotel room when traveling.
Surely you are not ignorant of the many
The requirements were artificially contrived to exclude
a very good and appropriate computer that Apple does make
that competes with the 8-pound laptop.
Right, the need to be able to take the machine with you is unbelievably
artificial. How ridiculous. Nobody in the real world needs to take
My company laptop is an HP model, maybe six months old now, so I do know
a bit about their cheaper models. It has a zippy 5400 RPM 80 GB hard
drive. The laptop is heavy, although lighter than its IBM predecessor,
so I only schlep it around if I must take it home.
One thing I have found to be
Now you are talking! :-)
Stewart
At 09:39 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote:
Yeah it is called chopped steak!
Extra Value Meal?
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I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop
computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that.
Well, there ya go. The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by
Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it? Whether you care about them or
not?
FYI, the budget buyers
I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop
computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that. I am over 50, so I
don't care about looking cool. But I can appreciate cool hardware and
software, and Apple can provide that. Nor do I think people with
windows laptops are
So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows
computer is because you're on budget. Wow, how far does MS expect to
get with that as their brand?
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop
computer,
In this day and economic climate pretty far.
Have you noticed the shift in tone and focus of commercials in the
past 6 months?
Green, Saves Money, Makes good Economic sense, etc. etc.
That is what advertising is all about, appeal to the current consumer
orientation.
If they really wanted
No - I am saying, as one with decades professionally in and out of
academic environments, that the overwhelming majority of classroom
settings are inhospitable to both the physical profile and battery
life of a 17 inch laptop. A smaller laptop that will actually fit on
a standard class
Different definition of budget.
When you as an adult buy a pair of shoes, do you buy the cheap ones
that will wear out in a year or two, or good quality ones that with
care will last a decade or more?
When you buy a power tool that you plan to use a lot do you buy a
Walmart special that
You are defining your own criteria.
I do have a budget on shoes. I will not pay more than $70.00 for a
pair of shoes.
I need a pair of shoes that are comfortable, look nice, will wear
well, and DO NOT HURT MY FEET!
I will look and look and look until I find that pair of shoes that
meats
Actually the better choice right now is the netbooks for classroom notes etc.
They are light very portable and not a huge footprint.
I was in Target the other day and they had a closeout on a Linux ASUS
netbook for 212.00.
Those truly are the portable choice right now. Download your stuff
Faulty logic.
The statement:
If you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop
is not equivalent to the statement
Only if you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop
Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:
So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows
computer is because you're on
Jeff, I do use _both_ W XP and OS X daily. I never called windows users
riff-raff. You seem to want to drag that in. I am not whining about MS
commercial, just criticizing it.
Don't buy a Mac, but at least try one before you whimper about Mac fans
or get out-raged at criticism of MS. Might
Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two.
My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook
Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two
years - cheaper than keeping them in repair.
Anecdotal evidence. I've got my own. I have
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Matthew Taylor
taylorsmatt...@gmail.com wrote:
You can pay a little more up front to save big in the long run, or you can
pay less up front at a long term cost.
It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher
quality in terms of
Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My
wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At
work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper
than keeping them in repair.
Are they used in the same manner in the
Check your outgoing about 21 hours ago where you said and I quote:
*No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much
cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware).*
The implication being running any hardware with windows is scum sucking
bottom feeder
Jeff, I do use _both_ W XP and OS X daily. I never called windows users
riff-raff. You seem to want to drag that in. I am not whining about MS
commercial, just criticizing it.
Then you aren't paying attention to what you are writing.
Don't buy a Mac, but at least try one before you
Maybe she needed a laptop today, not three years from now after scrimping
and saving? Maybe she wanted one with at least some kind of warranty rather
then a 4 year old mac that has nothing but duct tape and a wing and a prayer
keeping it together.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Constance
And that is my Point! MS is only advertizing themselves as the
alternative for people on a tight budget. Let's crow to the heavens and
rejoice! Thou tomb stone shall read: None were cheaper than him!
Not sure why everybody keeps bringing up irrelevant examples about cars
when the talk about
It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher
quality in terms of component parts than are far less expensive
similarly sized and outfitted machines designed and marketed for the
Windows OS. It is very difficult for me to believe that a $700
computer will be of
My point is that Lady Shopright COULD have had a Mac laptop, IF she
hadn't wanted to pay a Wal-Mart discount price for a fancy, premium
new machine. Which is pretty unrealistic--if she had done 5 minutes'
worth of research on the Net, she would have known that. No need for
even a pretend
Nope, they picked cheap. There are fine windows configurations
available, but MS picked a bottom-feeder to bolster their ad: If you
must buy cheap, you must buy our OS on it. Strange message for a
software maker, no?
For the record, the hardware was the scum-sucker, not MS. I just think
it
I don't see any other message in their ad. Just MS is cheaper, so buy a
laptop with Windows if you can't afford more.
Do they make another point that I missed?
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Faulty logic.
The statement:
If you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop
is not
And that is my Point! MS is only advertizing themselves as the
alternative for people on a tight budget. Let's crow to the heavens
and
rejoice! Thou tomb stone shall read: None were cheaper than him!
Not sure why everybody keeps bringing up irrelevant examples about cars
when the talk
I had felt that way for many years but hoped it had abated some when I
bought my MacBookPro 3 years ago; my first Apple OS device. Those old
feelings of not wanting to associate with certain types of folks have
been reawakened lately. I just hope that I can be grown up enough to
let those feelings
I would be hard pressed to find a laptop that competes with Apple on the
looks of the machine. The new laptops are exceptional looking. But they
aren't 1000 dollars more exceptional looking then competing specs for me.
MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins
are
Not true. Your problem is with the placement of the word only.
It is true that MS is advertising themselves as the _only_ alternative
for people on a tight budget.
Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:
And that is my Point! MS is _only_ advertizing themselves as the
alternative for people on a
Since MS does not make hardware, why did they bring hardware into it?
Apple sells OS X separately; does MS sell windows for less? What about
the applications? Anything they can advertize other than low-price when
they compare themselves to apple?
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original
That's true, MS did stack the deck to artificially exclude apple.
Game Over.
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I don't see any other message in their ad. Just MS is cheaper, so
buy a laptop with Windows if you can't afford more.
Do they make another point that I missed?
There's no validity to your assumption that one ad is supposed to show all
possible reasons for doing something. Here's an old
Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at
non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the
same way MFB exist. The mac community was on the fighting end for so long
they are just never not fighting. It's like so many of them have little
The one thing other contests do test that Pwn2Own doesn't is speed. I
could have written my exploit in a day or a week or even a month. At other
contests, you have to be ready to go non-stop for three days or whatever.
Didn't I just write that: an exploit coded in advance embedded in a web
There seems to be a fundamental difference between most apple users and most
windows users. Apple users identify themselves with their computers, it
means something to them, they get tshirts with apple logos, they put apple
stickers on their cars. You don't find many windows users with stickers
Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have
other ads out?
The last long campaign I remember was the one about all the
innovation. Before the law-suits.
Using your logic, apple's ads would be doing the same as MS, but they
seem to strike varying topics to tout their
Well she could have a laptop running MAC OSX for under $1K. It would of
course be a hackintosh. If she were happy with a netbook then she could
just pull it off for under $500 including buying OSX.5. That M$ gets some
money, Apple gets some money and MSI or dell or whoever gets some money.
Fine. Well built and reliable. Better built and more reliable than
a similarly outfitted Macintosh? Far less worrisome in operation?
Much less need for Geeks On Call?
Just as reliable and well-built, if not more so. I don't know about
the Geeks. I've never needed nor used them.
How
The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by
Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it?
Except that it is not true. Other than that you are just fine.
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Not quite sure how I 'changed the facts'--everything I posted was
factual. It's certainly true that you can get a Mac laptop for less
than $1K, if you don't demand the latest fancy model, you don't want
it instantly, and you're willing to do some research. It's all a
matter of
By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and just
relaxed at least ten years ago.
I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to just sit
back and be satisfied. Can you?
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Sometimes It's like some mac users
Actually they really don't touch on macs at all. They talk about ilife
sometimes...but mostly it's windows bad/mac good type adverts. Although
done a lot better then MS has ever done.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)
mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote:
Few ads from MS come to
It's like a bad horror movie...just when you think it's over it comes back.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
Well she could have a laptop running MAC OSX for under $1K. It would of
course be a hackintosh. If she were happy with a netbook then she could
I don't see any advantage, but I'm no expert.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 AM, db db...@att.net wrote:
Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new iMac?
db
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I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage sale, looks
brand new. I could have bought a 150 dollar toaster oven at some shop that
did toast perfectly, but I got the 10 dollar deal down the road.
You must have an old centurion model. The frakkin' skin jobs are the
$150
Must be irritated horribly by all those Apple ads then.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote:
I'm not irritated by her personal choice; I just don't like the deceptive
rhetoric and the silly attitudes of the commercial.
It's true, the art of the
For free, I can get you one that toasts both sides at once!
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
snip!
I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage sale,
looks
brand new. I could have bought a 150 dollar toaster oven at some shop that
did toast
I'm not talking company, I'm talking user base.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)
mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote:
By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and just
relaxed at least ten years ago.
I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can
What do they do better than Apple - both make software, but MS does not make
hardware. So why the hell would I want MS software over Apple's? They
can't seem to explain that in their marketing.
Actually MS does make some hardware and they publish detailed hardware
specifications for PCs that
If it was free, the TFB would just make fun of me.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:10 AM, John Emmerling jpemmerl...@gmail.comwrote:
For free, I can get you one that toasts both sides at once!
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
snip!
I like toast. I have a 10
The neighbors see you with one of the new centurion models with the built in
guns in the forearms and they stop inviting you over to barbques..the snobs.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote:
I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage
I need a pair of shoes that are comfortable, look nice, will wear
well, and DO NOT HURT MY FEET!
Looks to me that you would not be buying a big, bulky, heavy laptop with
a crappy screen either. That would hurt your back and your eyes.
Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have
other ads out?
Uh, yes? The 4-1/2 year-old girl capturing, enhancing, and emailing pictures
to granny with a few clicks? Other little girls making panoramas and such?
I was never talking about the users. That sounds too much like envy /
inferiority. Blech. Don't want to go there.
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
I'm not talking company, I'm talking user base.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)
mark.sny...@ngc.com
To say that Apple is incapable of building a less expensive machine that
won't last more than a year or two is a sad commentary on its engineering
skills. But I don't believe this for an instant. They are perfectly capable
of doing this; they choose not to. Why that is, I couldn't tell you.
Yes
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:11 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't see any advantage, but I'm no expert.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 AM, db db...@att.net wrote:
Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new iMac?
DVD-R is compatible with a wider range of DVD
Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new
iMac?
One plays better on DVD players. I don't remember which. Try Wikipedia. I
think I saw the answer there.
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She wanted a LAPTOP!!!
Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one?
She did not buy a laptop. She bought a compact desktop that takes the
form of a laptop, but it is not a laptop computer. It is too big, bulky,
and heavy.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote:
Of course, they have ~90x more users. When I go into an Apple store
[shudder], the *cough* Geniuses all seem to be very busy with Apple
owners having problems.
You are right, and most of those troubles are with iPods
Tom, read the subject line!
I wrote that subject line. It belongs to me. It is the title of the
commercial, not a reference to a type of computer.
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Does any of this affect the truthiness of its basic point, that if you need
a laptop with a decent size screen and you have only a thousand bucks,
you're out of luck with Apple because they don't make one? Isn't that
factually accurate?
No it is nonesense. The big, bulky, heavy, blurry thing she
Yes, that is true. What I am seeing, that is not in the ad, is the
statement
_Only_ if you are on a tight budget would you want to buy hardware
with an MS operating system.
What I do see is _If_ you are on a tight budget, etc
Didn't you take logic in some math course where you learned the
I already defended you on this one. Tom is too small and frail to lift 8
pounds! It's not his fault he's built weak.
(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds lighter)
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
She wanted a LAPTOP!!!
Why do
Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at
non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the
same way MFB exist.
You obviously have not been reading this thread. The WFBs have made some
mighty wild claims in defense of their dearly loved.
MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins
are gigantic, other hardware manufacturers, not so much.
Same reason you should go out and buy a car from a bankrupt car maker.
You would not want to buy something from a healthy company that was
making money and was sure
Actually they really don't touch on macs at all. They talk about ilife
sometimes...but mostly it's windows bad/mac good type adverts. Although
done a lot better then MS has ever done.
See the latest gPhone commercial. They show all these wide-eyed people
staring at the tiny screen and they
Useful things that are not done in real time either! WooHoo!
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
Actually they really don't touch on macs at all. They talk about ilife
sometimes...but mostly it's windows bad/mac good type adverts. Although
done a lot better
Right, but your solution to the gal who wanted a laptop was an iMac
which is not.
Tom Piwowar wrote:
Tom, read the subject line!
I wrote that subject line. It belongs to me. It is the title of the
commercial, not a reference to a type of computer.
(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds lighter)
I don't comsider that a laptop. It is actually a portable video
production studio. That is what it is bought for. That is why it costs
what it costs. It competes with alternatives selling upwards of $100,000.
That Mac
And you've been discussing the matter with yourself for seven emails...the
mirror analogy suddenly seems even more apropos.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at
non mac users their own
Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece Sunday on the deadly computer virus sweeping
the world? The story suggested that there is some reason to think it might
be activated in millions of computers by its creator on April 1 to do harm
or create mischief. Any thoughts about how serious this might be and
Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece Sunday on the deadly
computer virus sweeping the world? The story suggested
that there is some reason to think it might be activated
in millions of computers by its creator on April 1 to do
harm or create mischief. Any thoughts about how serious
this
Why do I think Tom or maybe others are going to say that if you have a Mac,
there is nothing to worry about from this thing? :)
Because it is true?
This is the good old downadup with us again.
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Actually it's not with you if you just update.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
Why do I think Tom or maybe others are going to say that if you have a
Mac,
there is nothing to worry about from this thing? :)
Because it is true?
This is the good old
well, no; just that it has the potential to wreck a lot of harm, like steal
your personal info. from computer.
Randall
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:23 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
Deadly? They said that?
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Ranbo ran...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone see the 60
Thanks,
Just saw something on local news, with advice like this. Even if computer
is patched and updated couldn't this virus clog the internet by spamming
lots of computers? This was suggested on the local news show as a potential
problem.
Randall
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Chris
well, no; just that it has the potential to wreck a lot of harm, like steal
your personal info. from computer.
Not really. If you cared about this kind of stuff you would not be using
a PC.
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well if apple made heavier laptops i would have bought one...
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
well, no; just that it has the potential to wreck a lot of harm, like
steal
your personal info. from computer.
Not really. If you cared about this kind of stuff
I have been thinking about how much information about myself to
Put on the internet, I wanted know if any who as put their resume
Online had any problems, with ID thieves or any problems.
I have had stuff about me up on the Internet for close to 20 years. The
only things I am careful to not
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:30 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
well if apple made heavier laptops i would have bought one...
Over 90% of the defendants who appear on the Judge Judy Show are
Windows users! I'll be checking the stats for the Jerry Springer
Show shortly.
Steve
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote:
Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of
Arguments
sketch.
No, it isn't!
If only this thread would pine for the fjords.
True story The Apple Genius told me that my Wife's 2cnd Generation Nano
I heard speculation that the virus payload may be up for auction and all
this publicity could drive up the prices.
--
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)
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Not best but in the top 5.
Their keyboards and mice are one of only two brands I will
buy. Logitech is the other one.
Stewart
At 08:52 PM 3/31/2009, you wrote:
Can you name something MS makes that is considered best quality in its
category? I can't think of anything.
As I suspected. The
Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new
iMac?
One plays better on DVD players. I don't remember which. Try Wikipedia. I
think I saw the answer there.
DVD-R is the native format for video DVDs. I can burn the -R and +R on
my computers, but I've found that the -R
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 06:51:52 -0400, Chris Dunford wrote:
I have this image of Tom sitting at home being deliberately obtuse,
seeing how much shit he can stir up on this list. It's really not worth
it to play his games.
I know. It has occurred to me more than once that if this were anyplace
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote:
My prediction is that after all this hype, nothing significant will happen.
Either that or millions of desktop screens will turn upside down.
Perhaps nothing happening would be the worst sign at all. One big silent
bot
Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of
Arguments
sketch.
No, it isn't!
Yes, it is.
Oh look, this isn't an argument.
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Perhaps nothing happening would be the worst sign at all. One big
silent bot net take over.
Yeah, I'm running the scans anyway.
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Xbox lost out to Wii.
Well, now this is a really interesting conclusion.
We (wii?) have both, and there is no comparison. Except for the wiimotes,
which really are pretty cool, Xbox is superior in *every* respect. As in
blows it away. Side-by-side with the Xbox's HD graphics, the Wii looks like
Tom,
Get with the program! the 20 iMac is much more
practical...
Rocky
Date:Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:27:56 -0400
From:Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com
Subject: Re: Laptop Hunters
(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only
1.2 pounds lighter)
I don't comsider that a laptop. It
++
| TomTom Settles With Microsoft |
| from the caves-not-just-for-bears dept. |
| posted by ScuttleMonkey on Monday March 30, @16:48 (Microsoft) |
|
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