Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[b_s-wilk]

A laptop? Strangely, everyone I know - myself included - drags around
mice with their laptops, so I *always* have a middle mouse button
available.

As Tom said, if you don't mind using two hands there are hotkeys. You
can also right-click and "open link in new tab". Thing is, you don't
want EVERY link you click to open new tabs, only some of them. Have
you considered a mouse for the laptop?


That's odd. I rarely see anyone using a mouse with their notebooks that 
they carry around, only with desktop-replacement ones at home.


All Mozilla apps had click-and-hold contextual menus as a default until 
Firefox 3. Even though I have a mouse that can do right/left click, I 
like the click-and-hold method better. Dumped the multi-buttons when my 
trackball died years ago.


To return that preference to it's proper default, go back to 
about:config. Enter "click" [no quotes] as your filter in the search 
field. For ui.click_hold_context_menus, set value as true. You'll see 
other settings that you can change, like 
browser.tabs.opentabfor.middleclick [not much good for a one- or 
two-button mouse], and browser.urlbar.clickAtEndSelects.



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[CGUYS] Mac/PeeCee History [was: Another new Windows ad...]

[b_s-wilk]

> Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of 
> xerox.  I believe Jobs hired on one or several? of the guys 
> who worked for xerox to work on the lisa OS.  Someone here 
> might know that history better.


Not really. The Mac team did interact with the Xerox team as they were 
nearby and working on similar ideas. They did demo things to each other.


One of the best stories was about Atkinson seeing a mockup of a graphics 
application at XeroxPARC. He thought it was a demo. He then went back to 
Apple and programmed a similar application. Later the Xerox folks were 
amazed, they had been stumped by the problem.


The Apple team was extremely talented.


I think Steve Jobs spent less than a week at Xerox in Palo Alto. Might 
have been just a tour. That's a great way to observe and get ideas, but 
he didn't steal code. He built on an idea. Woz was more familiar with 
the Xerox technology.


Xerox wasn't the first to use a mouse. They weren't the first to have 
GUI. Before Jobs visited Xerox I was already experimenting with a GE 
Genigraphics computer for drawing. It used something like a joystick. 
The Mac is a huge improvement, but GE had one of the better setups in 
the mid-70s to mid-80s.



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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Sue Cubic]

At 08:22 PM 4/10/2009 -0400, you wrote:

Heh. That scroll wheel *is* your middle mouse button. Press it down.


I know that it locks the scroll, but didn't know it did anything 
else.  I'll be darned! :)


Sue 



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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Tony B]

Heh. That scroll wheel *is* your middle mouse button. Press it down.


On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Sue Cubic  wrote:
> No, not a laptop.  It's a Logitech Trackman Wheel mouse.  No center
> button--in the center is a scroll wheel.


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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Sue Cubic]

At 05:22 PM 4/10/2009 -0400, you wrote:


In Firefox/Seamonkey/Flock/Camino location bar type:  about:config

In search field type:tab

That gives you all the available choices for how you want tabs to work.
Double-click on any and you can change the parameters. Confused? This
explains many of the settings,
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_:_FAQs_:_About:config_Entries. For 
more, try http://kb.mozillazine.org/Category:Preferences


You can create your own too!

Betty



Thanks, Betty!  I found the list, now I just need to explore what 
they all mean!


Sue 



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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Sue Cubic]

At 05:08 PM 4/10/2009 -0400, you wrote:

A laptop? Strangely, everyone I know - myself included - drags around
mice with their laptops, so I *always* have a middle mouse button
available.

As Tom said, if you don't mind using two hands there are hotkeys. You
can also right-click and "open link in new tab". Thing is, you don't
want EVERY link you click to open new tabs, only some of them. Have
you considered a mouse for the laptop?


No, not a laptop.  It's a Logitech Trackman Wheel mouse.  No center 
button--in the center is a scroll wheel.  I have 2 of these 
mouses/mice/meese?--one for my desktop and one for my laptop.  It's 
the only thing I've ever found that doesn't wreck my hand.


Sue 



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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Chris Dunford]

> > Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by
> > IBM.
> 
> And the OS was written by Digital Research. Some say MS stole it.

Oh, boy, here we go.

Who exactly says that, and why? MS licensed it, which to the best of my
knowledge isn't theft.

(Anyway, it was Seattle Computer Products, not DR.  DR's OS was CP/M.)


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Chris Dunford]

> Why do you quote something, then talk about something else

I just identified this scheme earlier today as "Plan #1".

My dad used to have a joke about two guys stranded on a desert island. After
they'd been through all their jokes a hundred times, they just gave each one
a number, so one guy would just say "Number 31!" and the other guy would
laugh.

We should consider assigning numbers to Tom's various obfuscations.


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Re: [CGUYS] cool firefox extension

[mike]

Chrome does this too...does safari on mac?

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:

> > I saw that and I do like to have lots of tabs open, but my experience
> > with FireFox (and other browsers) is that they run slower and slower as
> > more tabs are open. So I often run with several browsers to divide my
> > open tabs among them. This seems to avoid slowdowns.
> >
> > Is this just me or are others seeing that the browser gets unusably
> > slow
> > as the number of tabs gets over 20? I'm getter better action with three
> > browsers 10 or 15 tabs each.
> >
> > Same happens on Mac or Windows.
>
> I realize that I'm wasting my breath here, but you might consider trying
> IE8. Firefox runs all its tabs from one process, but IE8 uses a separate
> process for each one. That makes opening a new tab a little slower, but
> opening a lot of tabs doesn't slow it down. I think Chrome works this way
> too.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] cool firefox extension

[Chris Dunford]

> I saw that and I do like to have lots of tabs open, but my experience
> with FireFox (and other browsers) is that they run slower and slower as
> more tabs are open. So I often run with several browsers to divide my
> open tabs among them. This seems to avoid slowdowns.
> 
> Is this just me or are others seeing that the browser gets unusably
> slow
> as the number of tabs gets over 20? I'm getter better action with three
> browsers 10 or 15 tabs each.
> 
> Same happens on Mac or Windows.

I realize that I'm wasting my breath here, but you might consider trying
IE8. Firefox runs all its tabs from one process, but IE8 uses a separate
process for each one. That makes opening a new tab a little slower, but
opening a lot of tabs doesn't slow it down. I think Chrome works this way
too. 


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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind

[mike]

Here you provide and example of one of your worst traits...passing off your
opinions as if they are facts.

With your logic, Steve W would have never created the mac.  He enjoyed
*doing* things to computers, a lot of people do.  Don't knock it...don't do
it if you don't want to, but putting it down just shows your small vision of
computing.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

>
>
> I don't mind spending more on Apple hardware because it works. I don't
> have to futz with it much.. I love doing things using computers. I do not
> enjoy doing things *to* computers. That is a waste of time.
>
> >Some of us do like the experiment factor, the case panel on my main system
> >hasn't been on since I built this system, I'm always pulling HD's or
> adding
> >something etc.
>
> Well that's a computer tinkering hobby. I have no patience for such time
> wasting. I use the computer to accomplish things.
>
> Maybe that's the big difference between a WFB and a MFB?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[mike]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIMP_(computing)

Doesn't look like it was just a mockup.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> > Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of
> > xerox.  I believe Jobs hired on one or several? of the guys
> > who worked for xerox to work on the lisa OS.  Someone here
> > might know that history better.
>
> Not really. The Mac team did interact with the Xerox team as they were
> nearby and working on similar ideas. They did demo things to each other.
>
> One of the best stories was about Atkinson seeing a mockup of a graphics
> application at XeroxPARC. He thought it was a demo. He then went back to
> Apple and programmed a similar application. Later the Xerox folks were
> amazed, they had been stumped by the problem.
>
> The Apple team was extremely talented.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Tom Piwowar]

> Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by
> IBM.

And the OS was written by Digital Research. Some say MS stole it.


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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[b_s-wilk]

I have Firefox set to "new pages should be opened in a new tab".
This works fine if I click on a link in a new email.  However, if I
attempt to open a new site from my Personal Tool Bar, the new page
opens in the tab that is currently open.

Am I doing something wrong?  The only way I can seem to have more
than one tab is to open a new tab first.



In Firefox/Seamonkey/Flock/Camino location bar type:  about:config

In search field type:tab

That gives you all the available choices for how you want tabs to work.
Double-click on any and you can change the parameters. Confused? This
explains many of the settings,
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_:_FAQs_:_About:config_Entries. For 
more, try http://kb.mozillazine.org/Category:Preferences


You can create your own too!

Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[mike]

Why do you quote something, then talk about something else?  When you say
'you', who are you talking to?  I think you are skipping the part to see who
is writing the emails.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >So first you argue they don't use their machines more...then you say when
> >they do they are lazy good for nothings?  And you wonder why people think
> >you hate MS with your no win scenarios you play out here.
>
> ??? The Nielsen study is looking at something very different than the
> hardware sales stats do. You appear to not understand that. You want to
> ignore Nielsen's tabulating the PS2 even though it is very significant in
> their population. The argument you make for excluding the PS2 is based on
> current and future sales, but when presented with those stats you appear
> confounded.
>
> There is no room for sloppy thinking when working with statistics. You
> must understand what the numbers measure and use them appropriately. I
> am. You are not.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Tom Piwowar]

> Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of 
> xerox.  I believe Jobs hired on one or several? of the guys 
> who worked for xerox to work on the lisa OS.  Someone here 
> might know that history better.

Not really. The Mac team did interact with the Xerox team as they were 
nearby and working on similar ideas. They did demo things to each other.

One of the best stories was about Atkinson seeing a mockup of a graphics 
application at XeroxPARC. He thought it was a demo. He then went back to 
Apple and programmed a similar application. Later the Xerox folks were 
amazed, they had been stumped by the problem.

The Apple team was extremely talented.


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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Tony B]

A laptop? Strangely, everyone I know - myself included - drags around
mice with their laptops, so I *always* have a middle mouse button
available.

As Tom said, if you don't mind using two hands there are hotkeys. You
can also right-click and "open link in new tab". Thing is, you don't
want EVERY link you click to open new tabs, only some of them. Have
you considered a mouse for the laptop?

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Sue Cubic  wrote:
> At 04:29 PM 4/10/2009 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> I use my middle mouse button to open links in new tabs.
>
> I don't have a middle mouse button. :)  So I'm not missing something in the
> controls setup?


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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Tom Piwowar]

> Am I doing something wrong?  The only way I can seem to have more than one
> tab is to open a new tab first.

Command-click on the link.


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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind

[Tom Piwowar]

>I'm not sure why you are looking to spend 450, you've made it clear you
>don't mind spending more on apple hardware.  I spend quite a bit more
>getting ipods then I would getting other mp3 players.

I don't mind spending more on Apple hardware because it works. I don't 
have to futz with it much.. I love doing things using computers. I do not 
enjoy doing things *to* computers. That is a waste of time.

>Some of us do like the experiment factor, the case panel on my main system
>hasn't been on since I built this system, I'm always pulling HD's or adding
>something etc.

Well that's a computer tinkering hobby. I have no patience for such time 
wasting. I use the computer to accomplish things.

Maybe that's the big difference between a WFB and a MFB?


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Tom Piwowar]

>So first you argue they don't use their machines more...then you say when
>they do they are lazy good for nothings?  And you wonder why people think
>you hate MS with your no win scenarios you play out here.

??? The Nielsen study is looking at something very different than the 
hardware sales stats do. You appear to not understand that. You want to 
ignore Nielsen's tabulating the PS2 even though it is very significant in 
their population. The argument you make for excluding the PS2 is based on 
current and future sales, but when presented with those stats you appear 
confounded.

There is no room for sloppy thinking when working with statistics. You 
must understand what the numbers measure and use them appropriately. I 
am. You are not.


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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Sue Cubic]

At 04:29 PM 4/10/2009 -0400, you wrote:

I use my middle mouse button to open links in new tabs.


I don't have a middle mouse button. :)  So I'm not missing something 
in the controls setup?


Sue 



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Re: [CGUYS] cool firefox extension

[Tom Piwowar]

>Tree Style Tabs.  This does just what it says, puts your tabs on the side in
>the tree format.  For those with tons of tabs open in firefox, this makes
>them much easier to find and hit.  Great little extension.

I saw that and I do like to have lots of tabs open, but my experience 
with FireFox (and other browsers) is that they run slower and slower as 
more tabs are open. So I often run with several browsers to divide my 
open tabs among them. This seems to avoid slowdowns. 

Is this just me or are others seeing that the browser gets unusably slow 
as the number of tabs gets over 20? I'm getter better action with three 
browsers 10 or 15 tabs each.

Same happens on Mac or Windows.


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Re: [CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Tony B]

I use my middle mouse button to open links in new tabs.


On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Sue Cubic  wrote:
> I have Firefox set to "new pages should be opened in a new tab".  This works
> fine if I click on a link in a new email.  However, if I attempt to open a
> new site from my Personal Tool Bar, the new page opens in the tab that is
> currently open.
>
> Am I doing something wrong?  The only way I can seem to have more than one
> tab is to open a new tab first.


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[CGUYS] Firefox tabs

[Sue Cubic]

I have Firefox set to "new pages should be opened in a new 
tab".  This works fine if I click on a link in a new email.  However, 
if I attempt to open a new site from my Personal Tool Bar, the new 
page opens in the tab that is currently open.


Am I doing something wrong?  The only way I can seem to have more 
than one tab is to open a new tab first.


Sue


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[CGUYS] cool firefox extension

[mike]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5890

Tree Style Tabs.  This does just what it says, puts your tabs on the side in
the tree format.  For those with tons of tabs open in firefox, this makes
them much easier to find and hit.  Great little extension.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Chris Dunford]

> Orginally being?
> 
> OS X is based on freebsd and other open standard projects, 
> not at all an apple designed os..Apple did what a lot of 
> companies do, take a product and make it better.
> 
> Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of 
> xerox.  I believe Jobs hired on one or several? of the guys 
> who worked for xerox to work on the lisa OS.  Someone here 
> might know that history better.

He's probably talking pre-Mac. As I recall, Wozniak and a couple other guys
wrote Apple DOS in-house.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Chris Dunford]

> Chronologically:
> Steve W. & Steve J. came first. The hardware came first, then an OS to
> make the hardware do something useful in a relatively easy manner.
> 
> Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by
> IBM.

I think that chronology is accurate, but only you're talking strictly about
operating systems. Remember that Gates and Allen wrote the Basic interpreter
for the Altair in 1975--two years before the Apple II was released and four
years before Apple DOS came out. (And for what it's worth, what was by then
Microsoft also wrote a 6502 version for Apple.) 

All this was long before IBM entered the picture. So you're right if you're
talking about OSs, but Gates and MS were major players in personal computing
for quite a while before that.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[mike]

Orginally being?

OS X is based on freebsd and other open standard projects, not at all an
apple designed os..Apple did what a lot of companies do, take a product and
make it better.

Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of xerox.  I believe
Jobs hired on one or several? of the guys who worked for xerox to work on
the lisa OS.  Someone here might know that history better.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Alvin Auerbach  wrote:

> Chronologically:
> Steve W. & Steve J. came first. The hardware came first, then an OS to make
> the hardware do something useful in a relatively easy manner.
>
> Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by IBM. He
> didn't "decide to sell an OS." IBM licensed QDOS from Bill, and they renamed
> it. They should have purchased it. Korean manufacturers undercut IBM, and
> licensed the OS from Bill, and the BIOS from (I don't remember).
>
> Bill originally wrote software for Apple, then was approached by IBM. QDOS
> was purchased, not written, by Bill; and QDOS was a rip off of CPM. Windows
> was a rip off of Mac OS. AFAIK, Bill never came up with an original OS.
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
>
>  MS and Apple came up with two marketing campaigns, and methods.  Bill
>> decided to sell an OS and let manufacturers design equipment around it.
>>
>> Steve decided to not only sell an OS but to sell Hardware designed around
>> it.
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Tom Piwowar]

>Speaking of...how many here have ever been a participant in a Nielsen poll  
>or survey?
> 
>Not me...

Me, me, me!

The phoned me every morning to ask what I had watched the night before. 

The funny thing was that they always questioned me incredulously about 
gaps. They would say you watched  that ended at 9:00 and you watched 
 that started at 10:00. What did you watch at 9:00 to 10:00? I would 
say "I turned the TV off, there was nothing worth watching." This they 
were very suspicious of. They would list all the shows for that time slot 
to be sure I did not watch any of them.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Alvin Auerbach]

Chronologically:
Steve W. & Steve J. came first. The hardware came first, then an OS to  
make the hardware do something useful in a relatively easy manner.


Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by  
IBM. He didn't "decide to sell an OS." IBM licensed QDOS from Bill,  
and they renamed it. They should have purchased it. Korean  
manufacturers undercut IBM, and licensed the OS from Bill, and the  
BIOS from (I don't remember).


Bill originally wrote software for Apple, then was approached by IBM.  
QDOS was purchased, not written, by Bill; and QDOS was a rip off of  
CPM. Windows was a rip off of Mac OS. AFAIK, Bill never came up with  
an original OS.



On Apr 10, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

MS and Apple came up with two marketing campaigns, and methods.   
Bill decided to sell an OS and let manufacturers design equipment  
around it.


Steve decided to not only sell an OS but to sell Hardware designed  
around it.




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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[mike]

Foxconn makes boards for Apple towers too, I believe ASUS handles the laptop
side.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall <
popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> There is another problem with this number.
>
> Apple combines their whole operation.  Hardware and Software.
>
> You would have to separate out what their profit margin is on the OS, and
> what their profit margin is on their hardware (Computer)
>
> MS does not sell computers.  They sell an OS, a Suite and other software,
> plus some peripherals.  But MS is not a hardware manufacturer except for the
> Xbox, but that is not a computer.
>
> There are a ton (and I mean that literally) of hardware manufacturers out
> there.  Some of them are crap.
>
> I have noticed that Foxconn seems to be part of I[pods and makes some parts
> for them.  In the PC world Foxconn is not one of the better board makers.
>
> Remember the days of Amptron?  Emachines?
>
> There are some cheap and dirty PC manufacturers out there.  I would not buy
> their equipment.
>
> There are some higher end manufacturers and that is who I deal with.
>
> MS and Apple came up with two marketing campaigns, and methods.  Bill
> decided to sell an OS and let manufacturers design equipment around it.
>
> Steve decided to not only sell an OS but to sell Hardware designed around
> it.
>
> Both have been successful in what they endeavored to set out to do.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> At 11:48 AM 4/10/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Betty--Assuming Tom's claim is real (he misplaced his link to back
>> this up, goshdarnit!), 1.7% is an average of ALL PC makers, which is
>> quite a few.  We have no way of knowing what made this number and what
>> it measured.  Tom's playing fast and loose with reality, so that it
>> matches his expectations, is well documented.
>>
>> I know Mac people are used to thinkinig in monolithic terms regarding
>> hardware, but I suspect this 1.7% figure is largely meaningless.
>>
>
> Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
> mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
> Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
> Ozark, AL  SL 82
>
>
>
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[CGUYS] IE7 Internet Access Problem

[Richard P.]

Recently I've been having intermittent connectivity problems with IE7
accessing the Internet. More often than not, IE7 just sits there and
spins away with no Internet activity showing in the Zone Alarm Intenet
monitor. Shutting down the firewall doesn't help all the time
(although it did seem to help once). Typing in the IP address directly
doesn't help either. IE7 Internet access is set to default levels.

This is a recent problem but I don't know when exactly it happened, as
I use Firefox as my main browser. I've had no issues with Firefox or
Thunderbird access. I tried IE8 but that had the same issue. Any help
will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Richard P.
Windows XP SP3
Zone Alarm 8.0.298.000
Internet Explorer 7.0.5730.13
AVG Antivirus
Spy Sweeper Antispyware


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

There is another problem with this number.

Apple combines their whole operation.  Hardware and Software.

You would have to separate out what their profit margin is on the OS, 
and what their profit margin is on their hardware (Computer)


MS does not sell computers.  They sell an OS, a Suite and other 
software, plus some peripherals.  But MS is not a hardware 
manufacturer except for the Xbox, but that is not a computer.


There are a ton (and I mean that literally) of hardware manufacturers 
out there.  Some of them are crap.


I have noticed that Foxconn seems to be part of I[pods and makes some 
parts for them.  In the PC world Foxconn is not one of the better board makers.


Remember the days of Amptron?  Emachines?

There are some cheap and dirty PC manufacturers out there.  I would 
not buy their equipment.


There are some higher end manufacturers and that is who I deal with.

MS and Apple came up with two marketing campaigns, and methods.  Bill 
decided to sell an OS and let manufacturers design equipment around it.


Steve decided to not only sell an OS but to sell Hardware designed around it.

Both have been successful in what they endeavored to set out to do.

Stewart


At 11:48 AM 4/10/2009, you wrote:

Betty--Assuming Tom's claim is real (he misplaced his link to back
this up, goshdarnit!), 1.7% is an average of ALL PC makers, which is
quite a few.  We have no way of knowing what made this number and what
it measured.  Tom's playing fast and loose with reality, so that it
matches his expectations, is well documented.

I know Mac people are used to thinkinig in monolithic terms regarding
hardware, but I suspect this 1.7% figure is largely meaningless.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Jeff Wright]

> Apple is very good at business. They offer excellent products at a fair
> price with enough cash left over for R&D. How much of the competitors' 1.7%
> profit goes to R&D?

Betty--Assuming Tom's claim is real (he misplaced his link to back
this up, goshdarnit!), 1.7% is an average of ALL PC makers, which is
quite a few.  We have no way of knowing what made this number and what
it measured.  Tom's playing fast and loose with reality, so that it
matches his expectations, is well documented.

I know Mac people are used to thinkinig in monolithic terms regarding
hardware, but I suspect this 1.7% figure is largely meaningless.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Jeff Wright]

> You have it backwards. $$$ doesn't equal quality. However, often it costs
> more to design and make a quality product--and have money left over for R&D.

No, I don't have it backwards; I explained as much.  Please read again
what I wrote.


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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >I think you are using that Apple math where everything costs more.  The
> MSI
> >wind can be picked up for less then 320, add in a used copy of OS X for
> say
> >100 bux? Now you are looking at less then 450.  I know you like to pay
> that
> >premium so you can still spend 300 more if you want.
>
> Sorry, I used the price quoted in the story you provided. Is there
> anything else in the story I should ignore?
>
> So I'm looking to spend $450 on a computer configuration that is not
> supported by the OS or hardware vendor, may or may not work correctly,
> may or may not be upgradeable, may or may not accept security upgrades,
> etc.


Windows users are used to this.  These are the risks you get trying to run
Windows on anything.   It could be worth the risks to run an OS that is less
vulnerable or at least less targeted.

>
>
> I am puzzled. Do WFBs value cheap so much that they totally ignore any
> risk factor. As I said earlier, if you are so immune to risk, why not
> just go out and steal a Mac?
>
>
Part of this is the unwillingness of Apple to fill this niche and the good
olde hacker ethic of trying to do something to see if it can be done. Some
people find it amusing.   I doubt that the shrink wrap license is
enforceable in a illegal sense.


-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] iPod digital audio

[b_s-wilk]

My Sennheisers do well enough and are very portable



You probably said which ones they are some time back, but I overlooked it. 
Please tell!


Mary

I first bought the MX 500 earbuds a few years ago, then lost them last 
fall, and bought two more pairs from an Amazon store. They're somewhat 
better than entry level, have decent treble ad bass if the music is set 
for that before adding to the iPod, instead of relying of the built-in 
equalizer. It has an in-line volume control which I like for podcasts.


I also like my Koss PortaPro, 
http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/p?OpenForm&pc^pt^PORTAPRO, which 
isn't quite so portable. These new ones look interesting, 
http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/p?openform&pc^pt^SportaPro. Got two 
Koss KSC75 sportclips at a Radio Shack closeout. All are for portables.


For higher quality, I'd get headphones at musiciansfriend.com.

Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind [was Another new Windows ad...]

[Alvin Auerbach]

Thanks Betty, Tom, and Mike, for your info.

After looking it over, I've decided that for my degree of computer  
expertise, I should leave my MSI Wind just they way it is. It does run  
iTunes well, and that's the main reason that I purchased it.


BTW, I paid $379 + $9 shipping at Costco.com, for the MSI Model  
U100-432US Netbook. It has the better battery and supposedly better  
audio, and a padded case. This also includes some mildly useful tech  
support from Costco, the option for a fully refundable return within  
90 days; and from the AMEX card, a second year of warranty identical  
to the MSI warranty, and a 1% rebate.


One glitch tho -- When I connect the audio out directly to the input  
of my amp, there's no problem. When I connect it thru an unshielded  
switchbox, I get some noise in the audio, and additional noise when I  
use the trackpad. When I disconnect the MSI's AC adaptor at either the  
AC input or the DC output, the noise goes away.


Alvin



On Apr 9, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Alvin Auerbach wrote:

I have an MSI Wind which I use as my jukebox, with iTunes. I've read  
articles in which people describe how they put OS X on the machine,  
but it seems that one must be quite knowledgeable to do so. I'm not  
that knowledgeable. Has anyone heard of a "turnkey" solution?


Alvin


On Apr 9, 2009, at 11:47 AM, mike wrote:


I've got more then one friend seriously contemplating getting one
of those MSI winds to run OS X on.




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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind

[b_s-wilk]

>http://snipurl.com/flkdk


$759 (assuming you pay for the OS) vs. $999 for a MacBook. That's way too 
much. I would spend the extra $240 just for the reliability factor.


Heck if I wanted to go that way I could just go to the nearest college 
campus and steal a MacBook.


The Dell and HP netbooks can be hacked to run OS X. They cost at least 
50% less than a MacBook and weigh less [~1.4kg vs 2kg].


A MacBook isn't a netbook. It's a wonderful notebook.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[b_s-wilk]

Most products have at least a 50% markup [that means base cost is 50% of 
selling price, not including shipping, handling, storage, marketing, 
advertising, sales]. With some electronics it has been as low as 10% to 
cover costs and have a minimal profit. A net profit of 1.7% is hardly 
worth doing business. Supermarkets work at at 2-5% profit.


No. 1.7% is unsustainable. What happens when they have a sale? The only 
"profit" some vendors will make is a tax writeoff for selling products 
below cost. The rest of the profit will come from the rebates they offer 
you so that they can use your money for 8-12 weeks before sending you a 
check.


Apple is very good at business. They offer excellent products at a fair 
price with enough cash left over for R&D. How much of the competitors' 
1.7% profit goes to R&D?




Wrong.  You are arguing the pc makers have a profit margin of 0 or less and
then you say 1.7 is unsustainable?

No wonder macs have a reputation for being bad at business.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:


> >As to the profit margin, so what?  That's the standard profit margin
> >for the grocery industry and we're still able to go shopping for
> >groceries year after year.  Even still, companies come and go all the
> >time; is this news to you?

>
> Are you really that clueless about business economics? I expect better,
> even from a WFB. To stay in business these companies are either going to
> raise prices 50 to 100% or start sourcing their parts at junkyards. A
> profit margin that slim is simply unsustainable.



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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[b_s-wilk]

> My response was aimed at Tom who thinks that giving consumers a good
> bargain is a bad thing.  In his book, $$$ = quality; it's largely an
> exercise in snobbery.  There is some correlation with price and
> reliability, but not always. In real estate, it's location, location,
> location.  You aren't necessarily getting a better built house, just
> one in a better neighborhood.  With cars, it's cachet and performance,
> often at the expense of reliability, but not always.  You can get very
> relaible, but poorly performing cars (and ZERO cachet) for very little
> money.

You have it backwards. $$$ doesn't equal quality. However, often it 
costs more to design and make a quality product--and have money left 
over for R&D.


PC makers often skimp on important details like using a cheap TN 
display, compared to my new iMac which contains a wide angle H-IPS/S-IPS 
display that alone costs the same or more than the entire PC. And please 
don't give me a cheap clunky PC keyboard! We have a collection in the 
closet that are barely usable compared to the Apple keyboards.


I won't complain about Bob's HP notebook. It serves its purpose well 
[except for searches], but even at ~15 inches is heavy to carry around 
compared to my MacBook.



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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Chris Dunford]

> >The point, which you seem to miss, is that PS2 is an obsolete product.
> 
> Not for Nielsen numbers. Nielsen is measuring what people have in their
> homes and are using. PS2 Wins. If you want to track non-obsolete
> products
> you should be looking at current sales. For that the latest stats are
> at
> the bottom of this post. Read and weap.

Shocking. Well, maybe the fact that you can get a new PS2 for less than a
hundred bucks has some impact. But, oh, I forgot, people who buy cheap
hardware are idiots. 

Go ahead and ignore the fact that PS2 playing time dropped by 40% in one
year. If that happened to Windows you'd be organizing a fireworks display on
the Mall. But since it's not an MS product, it's not important.

> >OK, I clicked the wrong link.
> 
> Conveniently.
> 
> >Your comments on this could charitably be termed "grasping at straws".
> 
> I see you grasping at straws. You only copied part of the survey
> results
> and declare the parts you don't like "irrelevant."

Making stuff up again? What I said that PS2 is irrelevant because (a) it is
a dying product and (b) you compared Xbox to Wii, not PS2.

> And I'm sure you'll be terrified by any discussion of what the Nielsen
> numbers really represent. The Wii user is going to be engaged in
> vigorous
> activity while the XBox user will be a lethargic couch potato. The Wii
> user will play a vigorous game or two and get on with life. The XBoxer
> will sit there and sit there and sit there. Possibly too lazy to even
> get
> up to poop.

Now, THAT is irrelevant.

> Bottom line is that you are just spinning for your masters. Wii sales
> are
> almost double XBox sales. Nintendo holds the top 2 spots with XBox a
> distant third.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/c9p57v  (Short link so as not to confuse you know
> who.)

Ad hominem attacks, snarky comments, insults, utter irrelevancies ("couch
potato"), cherry-picked data, fabricated quotes, and moving targets (TP plan
#1: when someone points out that you were wrong, say something completely
different and act like it is what you were saying all along). Pretty typical
TP bullshit. It is no longer possible, if it ever was, to take you
seriously.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Jeff Wright]

> Are you really that clueless about business economics? I expect better,
> even from a WFB. To stay in business these companies are either going to
> raise prices 50 to 100% or start sourcing their parts at junkyards. A
> profit margin that slim is simply unsustainable.

Project, monkey boy, project.

Why do you have such a hard time with objective reality?  Stop
fighting it Tom, really.  It's embarrassing.


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Jeff Wright]

>  When I speak of what type of computer one wants, I am speaking of
> personal use.  A fair number of purchases for personal use are also
> predicated upon the need to do work at home for an employer.

It may very well be the situation, but that is a business tool needs case.

>  Windows buyers fear not being able to get help from all their
> friends and relatives who also have Windows machines.  They also, in
> many cases, simply do not want ot be "different."  You just don't want
> to walk into a Chamber of Commerce meeting with a Mac.  Suspicious
> glances, whispering and talk in hushed tones will immediately ensue.

You're being silly now, on both counts.  I have elderly relatives who
buy Windows machines, because that is what they know and don't want to
be bothered learning something new just to do their email and buying
plane tickets for travel.

I set up my 70-something mother-in-law several years ago and I only
need to deal with her Dell XP system a couple times per year.  She's
more afraid to try and do anything beyond basic operation, which
usually amounts to installing some app or updating an existing 3rd
party app, like Flash.  I keep telling her that she is perfectly
capable of doing these things, but she'd rather I do it.

> For what it is worth, the local DC Fox outlet advertises being able
> to keep up-to-date with the news by logging in to their website with
> your "PC."  Not your computer, but with your "PC" computer.  See,
> Windows is the expectation.  Either that or they do not understand
> that the term "PC" has come to mean Windows.

No it's "personal computer," a generic term.  The only people who
would have a problem with this are Mac users who simultaneously want
to declare their Independence from the hegemony and whine about
feeling excluded.


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

For about a year and a half or two ears we were a nielsen family.

We were supposed to scan all that we bought and either put in the 
prices or they could automatically get the price.


When we got home we pulled out the scanner and scanned every item we 
bought (for personal use) and then put in the price.


Was a pain in the you know what but it was supposed to get buying trends etc.

As the house slowly emptied out and as I got tired of re scanning 
everything I bought, we dropped out.


Stewart


At 09:53 AM 4/10/2009, you wrote:

Speaking of...how many here have ever been a participant in a Nielsen poll
or survey?

Not me...

D


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[mike]

I participated in one local radio survey...never another.

One point to add perhaps, MS basically has unlimited money to dump into the
xbox line, and they have shown a wilingness to do so.  Sony is another story
however with their company wide losses.  And I've said before...the wii is
not competing with xbox/ps3.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:53 AM,  wrote:

> Speaking of...how many here have ever been a participant in a Nielsen poll
> or survey?
>
> Not me...
>
> D
>
>
> In a message dated 4/10/2009 10:11:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> t...@tjpa.com writes:
>
> And I'm  sure you'll be terrified by any discussion of what the Nielsen
> numbers  really represent. The Wii user is going to be engaged in vigorous
> activity  while the XBox user will be a lethargic couch potato. The Wii
> user will  play a vigorous game or two and get on with life. The XBoxer
> will sit  there and sit there and sit there. Possibly too lazy to even get
> up to  poop.
>
> **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
> steps!
> (
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26
> hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62
> )
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[DBCfour]

Speaking of...how many here have ever been a participant in a Nielsen poll  
or survey?
 
Not me...
 
D
 
 
In a message dated 4/10/2009 10:11:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
t...@tjpa.com writes:

And I'm  sure you'll be terrified by any discussion of what the Nielsen 
numbers  really represent. The Wii user is going to be engaged in vigorous 
activity  while the XBox user will be a lethargic couch potato. The Wii 
user will  play a vigorous game or two and get on with life. The XBoxer 
will sit  there and sit there and sit there. Possibly too lazy to even get 
up to  poop.

**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26
hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)


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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind

[mike]

Might want to read again...I never sent a link.

I'm not sure why you are looking to spend 450, you've made it clear you
don't mind spending more on apple hardware.  I spend quite a bit more
getting ipods then I would getting other mp3 players.

Some of us do like the experiment factor, the case panel on my main system
hasn't been on since I built this system, I'm always pulling HD's or adding
something etc.

As far as WFBs you'll have to find one to ask, they are probably out by big
foot having a smoke or swimming with nessie.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >I think you are using that Apple math where everything costs more.  The
> MSI
> >wind can be picked up for less then 320, add in a used copy of OS X for
> say
> >100 bux? Now you are looking at less then 450.  I know you like to pay
> that
> >premium so you can still spend 300 more if you want.
>
> Sorry, I used the price quoted in the story you provided. Is there
> anything else in the story I should ignore?
>
> So I'm looking to spend $450 on a computer configuration that is not
> supported by the OS or hardware vendor, may or may not work correctly,
> may or may not be upgradeable, may or may not accept security upgrades,
> etc.
>
> I am puzzled. Do WFBs value cheap so much that they totally ignore any
> risk factor. As I said earlier, if you are so immune to risk, why not
> just go out and steal a Mac?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[mike]

So first you argue they don't use their machines more...then you say when
they do they are lazy good for nothings?  And you wonder why people think
you hate MS with your no win scenarios you play out here.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Looks like I shouldn't quote engadget...
> >
> >*The study found that of those three, owners of the Xbox 360 got the most
> >use out of their console -- an average of 11.4 percent of the time for the
> >duration of the poll, while the PS3 came in a close second at 10.6
> percent.
> >The original Xbox followed directly behind that with 10.2 percent, while
> Wii
> >owners gamed a sad 6.8 percent of the time... far less than that of even
> PS2
> >owners.*
>
> I will quote myself: Couch potatoes... XBox users too lethargic to even
> get up to poop.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] OSX typing tutor software ... one more time?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Unfortunately, I have forgotten the name and am 3000 miles away from the 
>computer with those emails on it.
>Would you all be so kind to remind me again?

You are never far away from the CGuys. At www.cguys.org you will find a 
link to archives. You can find the thread and an answer in a flash.


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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind

[Tom Piwowar]

>I think you are using that Apple math where everything costs more.  The MSI
>wind can be picked up for less then 320, add in a used copy of OS X for say
>100 bux? Now you are looking at less then 450.  I know you like to pay that
>premium so you can still spend 300 more if you want.

Sorry, I used the price quoted in the story you provided. Is there 
anything else in the story I should ignore?

So I'm looking to spend $450 on a computer configuration that is not 
supported by the OS or hardware vendor, may or may not work correctly, 
may or may not be upgradeable, may or may not accept security upgrades, 
etc.

I am puzzled. Do WFBs value cheap so much that they totally ignore any 
risk factor. As I said earlier, if you are so immune to risk, why not 
just go out and steal a Mac?


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Tom Piwowar]

>The point, which you seem to miss, is that PS2 is an obsolete product.

Not for Nielsen numbers. Nielsen is measuring what people have in their 
homes and are using. PS2 Wins. If you want to track non-obsolete products 
you should be looking at current sales. For that the latest stats are at 
the bottom of this post. Read and weap.

>OK, I clicked the wrong link.

Conveniently.

>Your comments on this could charitably be termed "grasping at straws".

I see you grasping at straws. You only copied part of the survey results 
and declare the parts you don't like "irrelevant."

And I'm sure you'll be terrified by any discussion of what the Nielsen 
numbers really represent. The Wii user is going to be engaged in vigorous 
activity while the XBox user will be a lethargic couch potato. The Wii 
user will play a vigorous game or two and get on with life. The XBoxer 
will sit there and sit there and sit there. Possibly too lazy to even get 
up to poop.

Bottom line is that you are just spinning for your masters. Wii sales are 
almost double XBox sales. Nintendo holds the top 2 spots with XBox a 
distant third.

http://tinyurl.com/c9p57v  (Short link so as not to confuse you know who.)

North America Hardware Sales February 2009
--
Wii   753K
Nintendo DS   588K

Xbox 360  391K

PlayStation 3 276K
PSP   199K
PlayStation 2 131K

If you add different product groups together, even Sony leads Microsoft.


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Tom Piwowar]

>Looks like I shouldn't quote engadget...
>
>*The study found that of those three, owners of the Xbox 360 got the most
>use out of their console -- an average of 11.4 percent of the time for the
>duration of the poll, while the PS3 came in a close second at 10.6 percent.
>The original Xbox followed directly behind that with 10.2 percent, while Wii
>owners gamed a sad 6.8 percent of the time... far less than that of even PS2
>owners.*

I will quote myself: Couch potatoes... XBox users too lethargic to even 
get up to poop.


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[CGUYS] OSX typing tutor software ... one more time?

[db]

10 days ago or so I inquired about recommendations for OSX typing tutor 
software.   I got some good recomendations ... one of which was a 
software app. 

Unfortunately, I have forgotten the name and am 3000 miles away from the 
computer with those emails on it.


Would you all be so kind to remind me again?

thanks,

db


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Re: [CGUYS] New Gear Question Regrading USB 3

[Tom Piwowar]

>Let's hope USB3 is stable, because I can easily see it replacing SATA
>internally if it is.

I hold little hope for USB3. The engineers working on it do not appear to 
be the brightest bulbs.


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Re: [CGUYS] OS X on an MSI Wind [was Another new Windows ad...]

[Tom Piwowar]

>I have an MSI Wind which I use as my jukebox, with iTunes. I've read  
>articles in which people describe how they put OS X on the machine,  
>but it seems that one must be quite knowledgeable to do so. I'm not  
>that knowledgeable. Has anyone heard of a "turnkey" solution?

Yes there is a disk image that is fully patched for installation. Do not 
ask me where.


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Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings

[Tom Piwowar]

Subject: Re: [CGUYS] wii/sony/xbox ratings
Sent:4/12/20 6:43 AM
Received:4/9/09 10:21 PM
From:Tom Piwowar, t...@tjpa.com
Reply-To:Computer Guys Discussion List, 
COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
To:  CGUYS Computer Guys  Listserv, 
COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>I imagine that Mike omitted this because, as the original report notes and
>you omitted, PS2 is dying and will no longer be the top console by the end
>of this year. In other words, it will be irrelevant soon enough.

If that were so we would stop counting Window's marketshare too. Deciding 
that the top rated product is "irrelevant" is a slippery slope.

>Further, it's not clear where the numbers you quote came from. They aren't
>in the article you linked to. 

Sure are. It must be that darn Vista Readlity Distortion Firewall again.

http://xbox.joystiq.com/2009/01/02/nielsen-360-the-second-most-played-conso

le-of-08/

>Not exactly a "wide margin" to my eye.

17 vs 31 is almost double to my eye. I would call it a wide margin. Are 
you counting votes for Coleman?


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> Definitely. A significant percentage of Windows buyers are motivated by low 
> self esteem. This is a well-known phenomenon.

  In some cases perhaps.

  When I speak of what type of computer one wants, I am speaking of
personal use.  A fair number of purchases for personal use are also
predicated upon the need to do work at home for an employer.  The
employer/employee umbilical cord extends beyond that Nextel phone to
include the computer they need to have at home as well as in the car
in order to greatly extend the workday and please the boss.  Yes,
slavery still continues in a sense.

  Windows buyers fear not being able to get help from all their
friends and relatives who also have Windows machines.  They also, in
many cases, simply do not want ot be "different."  You just don't want
to walk into a Chamber of Commerce meeting with a Mac.  Suspicious
glances, whispering and talk in hushed tones will immediately ensue.

  For what it is worth, the local DC Fox outlet advertises being able
to keep up-to-date with the news by logging in to their website with
your "PC."  Not your computer, but with your "PC" computer.  See,
Windows is the expectation.  Either that or they do not understand
that the term "PC" has come to mean Windows.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

[Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)]

I have bought computers since the 1980's, both personal use (Apple) and
corporate/government-contracts (SGI, Sun, many PC vendors).  I Never buy
_any_ additional memory from the computer vendor.  It has always been
cheaper to buy memory from a memory vendor - much cheaper!  That "proof"
is Bo-o-ogus!

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
>Want proof?  Check apple prices on memory upgrades on new machines as 
>opposed to buying memory from a vendor.

Dell overcharges just as much. I've seen printer manufacturers
overcharge by 500-1000%. Best Buy's prices are crazy. I bet many others
overcharge too.



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