Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, c. wrote:
>you claim ancestory from nearly every flipping family line going aleisha.

Yes, Saba claims to be related to anyone of any import who ever existed
at any time in the world...

I'm sure she'll find some way to claim that it was her ancestors who
were responsible for the great cave art in France, and it must have been
an ancestor of hers who built the Great Pyramid, the Colossus of Rhodes,
the Lighthouse at Alexandria, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, AND
Stonehenge...


>you may have walked from the garden of eden

Remember, rats and cockroaches have legs and also walk...  ;-)


>but i grew big fuckoff batwings and flew to the red sea to live it up
>with demons. i left you and eve to lie on your backs in line.

And some of us had ancestors who just didn't buy that Garden of Eden crap
from the start, and happily developed vast civilizations elsewhere...


June (who'd rather have a reptile in her pantry than a rodent or
cockroach)


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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Aleisha Saba wrote:
>In fact once 60 minutes gave me considerable time re this claim; for as
>a joke I wrote I descended from Jack the RipperMorley Sater or
>whatever his name was, his last words were "mere woman Mrs... - for
>I had told him they would not let me in the Masons because I was a mere
>woman - but asshole - I sent him documentation of my family tree with
>items sealed with royal crown.

When was this, so we can verify the broadcast date?

The Masons have been accepting women in most lodges for some time now...


June

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[CTRL] Robotic Spy Jet To Cross Pacific Today

[William Shannon]

http://www0.mercurycenter.com/premium/local/docs/hawk21.htm



Published Saturday, April 21, 2001, in the San Jose Mercury News 

Robotic spy jet ready to cross pacific ocean

HISTORIC JOURNEY: AIRCRAFT WILL HEAD TO AUSTRALIA ON SUNDAY
IN FIRST-OF-ITS-KIND FLIGHT, 8,600 MILES WITHOUT CREW ON BOARD

BY ANDREW BRIDGES
Associated Press

EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE -- A robotic reconnaissance jet developed for the Air
Force will try to fly from California to Australia on Sunday in what
officials hope will make it the first such aircraft to cross the Pacific
Ocean.

With no pilot or onboard crew, the Global Hawk spy plane should make the 22
1/2-hour, 8,600-mile flight without human intervention, taking off from the
Mojave Desert before dawn and landing at a Royal Australian Air Force Base
outside Adelaide.

If the flight is successful, it would be the farthest a robotic aircraft has
flown between two points, said Robert Ettinger, manager of the Global Hawk
flight test program for manufacturer Northrop Grumman Corp.'s Ryan
Aeronautical Center.

Since its maiden flight in 1998, the Global Hawk has made flights of 30 hours
and more. Its capacity for endurance, combined with a telescopic camera that
can tell the difference between a sedan and a pickup truck from altitudes of
65,000 feet, make the plane ideal for surveillance and reconnaissance.

The awkward-looking plane with a 116-foot wingspan resembles a killer whale,
thanks to a bulbous nose that hides an antenna 4 feet in diameter.

On takeoff, the Global Hawk's mammoth wings droop under 15,000 pounds of fuel
that accounts for 60 percent of the aircraft's weight. A Rolls-Royce engine
sits astride the fuselage, framed by a distinctive V-shaped tail.

``It's one only its mother loves,'' Ettinger said of the plane's looks.

Once the Global Hawk takes off Sunday, it will fly nearly twice as high as
commercial jets travel.

 Northrop designed the plane to fly as far as 1,400 miles from its base,
crisscross a target for 24 hours to acquire radar, infrared and
black-and-white images, and then return home.

The plane cost more than $750 million to develop during the last seven years.

Although designed primarily for reconnaissance, the Global Hawk also could be
equipped with eavesdropping devices such as those aboard the EP-3E Aries II
spy plane being held by China, Ettinger said.

The plane flying Sunday has been dubbed the ``Southern Cross II'' in honor of
the first aircraft to fly from the United States to Australia. The original
Southern Cross, a three-engine Fokker that departed from Oakland, and its
crew made the trip in several legs in 1928.

[CTRL] U.S. On Alert For Smallpox Terror Attack

[William Shannon]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=68020




US on alert for smallpox terror attack

By Jeremy Laurence, health editor

22 April 2001

The US government has ordered 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine from a 
British company in a sign of the growing alarm that terrorists could unleash 
lethal viruses in future battles against Western states.


The astonishing size of the contract ­ worth $343m (£200m) ­ highlights the 
fears on both sides of the Atlantic about the threat of biological terrorism. 
If a virus such as smallpox was released, the speed of modern communications 
could spread the infection all over the world in days.


In the UK, the health department warned all NHS hospitals last year to 
prepare for a criminal or terrorist attack on their local populations 
involving biological weapons. Police teams trained by scientists from Porton 
Down, the government research centre on biological and chemical warfare, have 
been formed to take the lead role in the event of an attack.


The British Medical Association said that advances in technology meant 
biological weapons were now easier to manufacture than chemical ones, 
increasing the risk that they could be used in an attack.


Over the past 40 years there have been 121 incidents around the world 
involving the use of biological agents. The use of sarin nerve gas in an 
attack by a Japanese terrorist organisation six years ago, in which 12 people 
were killed and 5,000 injured, focused world attention on the threat. The US 
last year set aside $1.4bn (£940m) for protection against chemical or 
biological attacks.


The latest contract for smallpox vaccine is against a disease that no longer 
exists ­ and the world must hope it will never encounter again. It was 
eradicated from the planet in 1980 and only two research institutions ­ one 
in the US and one in Russia ­ still retain stocks of the virus.


The threat of a smallpox attack is highlighted in the preview edition of 
Infectious Diseases, a new journal published by The Lancet. Donald Henderson 
of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health said: "A large stockpile of 
vaccine is a very high priority because smallpox has a 30 per cent fatality 
rate. There is no vaccine production capacity anywhere in the world and we 
now have a very susceptible population."


The vaccine ordered by the US government is being manufactured by a US 
subsidiary of the Cambridge-based UK biotechnology company Acambis, formerly 
known as Peptide Therapeutics. Delivery to the US government's Center for 
Disease Control in Atlanta is due to start from mid-2004.


A spokeswoman said: "At the moment we are going through the process of 
developing and licensing the vaccine, but under the contract we have the 
right to sell it to anyone who wants it. When the time comes we will be 
marketing it to other governments, including the UK. It certainly would be a 
logical step for them to take."


The likelihood of a chemical or biological attack in the UK is seen as low by 
the Department of Health, but the results could be devastating. Working 
parties have been set up to consider the threat and exercises have been run 
in parts of the country. Lists of the most likely agents to be used have been 
drawn up, together with advice on how many people they might kill or injure, 
and strategies for treating the victims.


In the US, fear of biological terrorism has become as unnerving as the threat 
itself. President Clinton's declaration in 1998 that he expected a biological 
or chemical attack within the next five years has fuelled alarm and provided 
fertile ground for hoaxers. 

Re: [CTRL] So Duncan What About the German Scientist in KGB

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Aleisha Saba wrote:
>So - what about the Nazi Scientists who went to Russia?

Far fewer Nazi scientists went to the USSR after the war as were brought
into the USA, with the help of the CIA and politicos like Nixon...and
eventually they and their decendents have taken over both our political
system and our economic system...



June

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Re: [CTRL] So Duncan What About the German Scientist in KGB

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, nexusmagazine wrote:
>Maybe you can be clearer as to your point, after all, I am only an
>Australian.

You'll have to wait for Hell to freeze over for a post of any clarity
from Saba...  ;-)


June

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 4/21/01 11:53:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< What would Jesus say?

Steve >>

He would say, "Don't give little children to lesbians and homosexuals,"

Bill H

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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[CTRL] New Evidence That Hess Died In Britain

[William Shannon]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-118144,00.html



SATURDAY APRIL 21 2001  

New evidence that Hess died in Britain  

BY MICHAEL EVANS

THE conspiracy theory that Rudolf Hess was not the man who died in jail in 
Berlin in 1987 has been revived.

 A new book claims that there is evidence that Hitler’s deputy died in a 
plane crash a year after flying to Britain in 1941 to sue for peace with 
members of the Establishment. The man who was found guilty of war crimes at 
Nuremberg and spent the rest of his life in Spandau prison is said to have 
been a double planted by the British secret service. Lynn Picknet, Clive 
Prince and Stephen Prior, the authors of Double Standards: The Rudolf Hess 
Cover-up, claim to have evidence that Hess was killed while flying with the 
Duke of Kent over Wales in 1942.

 Yesterday the Public Record Office released more material supporting the 
official line, covering Hess’s illness in 1970. However, the book backs the 
view of Hugh Thomas, a former army surgeon posted to Berlin in 1973 who 
examined the prisoner and became convinced that he was not Hess. 

[CTRL] Poll On Palestinian Attitudes Towards Politics

[Nurev Ind.]

-Caveat Lector-

JMCC Public Opinion Poll No. 40 On Palestinian Attitudes Towards Politics
including the Current Intifada April 2001

(Jerusalem Media and Communication Centre)
http://www.jmcc.org/polls/2001/no40.htm
On Palestinian Attitudes Towards Politics including the Current Intifada
April 2001

Methodology
A random sample of 1200 people over the age of 18 were interviewed
face-to-face throughout the West Bank (5,6,7 April 2001) and Gaza Strip on
(10,11,12 April 2001). The margin of error is 3 percent, with a confidence
level of 95.

Results (in percentages)
Q. 1 In general how optimistic or pessimistic do you feel towards the
future?
3.8 Very optimistic 41.8 Optimistic
37.0 Pessimistic 16.3 Very Pessimistic 1.1 No answer

Q.2 Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the way Yassir Arafat is
handling
his job as President of the Palestinian Authority? Do you feel that way
strongly or only somewhat?
20.9 Very satisfied 36.8 Somewhat satisfied
20.3 Somewhat dissatisfied 17.7 Very dissatisfied 4.3 No answer

Q.3 Which Palestinian political or religious faction do you trust most?
32.3 Yasser Arafat 8.0 Ahmed Yassin 4.7 Haider 'abd al-shafi
3.0 Sa'eb 'Ireiqat 2.3 Marwan al-barghouti
12.8 Others 28.3 No one 8.6 No answer

Q.4 And which political party or faction, if any, is currently best able to
help achieve goals?
35.1 Fateh 17.7 Hamas 4.9 Islamic Jihad
3.2 Other Islamic faction 1.5 PFLP 1.1 PPP
1.9 Others 23.1 No one 11.5 No answer

Q.5 And what way is your feeling about suicide bombing operations against
Israeli civilians in Israel? Do you strongly support, somewhat support,
somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose suicide bombings against Israeli
civilians?
54.4 Strongly support 19.3 Somewhat support
10.1 Somewhat oppose 5.8 Strongly oppose 7.1 Don't know 3.3 No answer

Q.6 Do you support or oppose the continuation of the current Palestinian
Intifada ?
80.2 Support 13.3 Oppose 5.0 I don't know 1.5 No answer

Q.7 The current Intifada includes popular characteristics such as the
demonstrations and military characteristics. In your opinion, do you
support
the continuation of a popular or military Intifada or both of them
together?
13.5 I support the continuation of a popular resistance Intifada
15.8 With the continuation of a military resistance Intifada
62.3 I am with both a popular and military resistance Intifada
6.9 I don't know 1.5 No answer

Q.8 What's your opinion of the Oslo agreement? Would you say that you
strongly support it, support it, oppose it, or strongly oppose it ?
3.8  Strongly support it 36.6 Support it
33.0 Oppose it 19.9 Strongly oppose it 6.7 No answer

Q.9 . In general, how do you evaluate the Palestinian Authority's
performance? Would you say its performance is very good, bad, or very bad?
5.5 Very good 56.3 Good 23.9 Bad 11.3 Very bad 3.0 No answer

Q.10 The United States acts as the sponsor of the peace process and a
mediator in the negotiations. Do you believe that it is conducting its
mediation in a biased manner towards the Palestinians, in a neutral manner
or in a biased manner towards the Israelis?
0.4 Biased manner towards the Palestinians
2.5 Neutral manner
95.3 Biased manner towards the Israelis
1.2 Don't know 0.6 No answer

Q.11. How satisfied are you with Arab solidarity with the Intifada . Would
you say you are very satisfied, somewhat satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied,
or totally dissatisfied?
39.8 Satisfied 58.4 Dissatisfied 1.3 I don't know 0.5 No answer

Q.12. Under the current conditions, some believe that the peace process is
dead and there is no chance of resuming the negotiations , while others see
that the peace process is passing through difficult conditions with an
unclear future and there is another group that believes that the peace
process is still alive and there is a possibility of resuming negotiations
.

29.7 The peace process is dead and there is no chance of resuming
negotiations
43.8 The peace process is passing through difficult conditions with an
unclear future
19.1 The peace process is Still alive and there is a possibility of
resuming
the negotiations
0.5 Other ... please specify
6.3 I don't know 0.6 No answer

Q.13 Some believe that the two -state formula is the best solution for the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict while others believe that the historical
Palestine cannot be divided into two states and therefore the best solution
would be a bi-national state in all of Palestine where Palestinians and
Israelis enjoy equal rights, which of these two solutions would you prefer?
43.8 Two states Israeli & Palestinian
24.8 Bi-national state in all of Palestine
14.7 No solution
 8.2 Palestinian state  2.8 Islamic state
0.9 Other 3.6 I don't know 1.2 No answer

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==
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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[c.]

-Caveat Lector-

is it not blasphemous to put words and policies (or anything to hand) into
jesus's mouth?

- Original Message -
From: "Bill Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and
homosexuals?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 4/21/01 11:53:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << What would Jesus say?
>
> Steve >>
>
> He would say, "Don't give little children to lesbians and homosexuals,"
>
> Bill H
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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>
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>
> Om
>

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] [NA] The Truth About the Energy Crisis

[lloyd]

-Caveat Lector-

..

>From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]
Note:  We store 100's of related "New Paradigms Posts" at:
http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html

From: "Jim Condit Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [NA] The Truth About the Energy Crisis
Date: Saturday, April 21, 2001 4:27 AM

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing.
Those who count the votes decide everything."
attributed to Communist Tyrant Josef Stalin

[One option available to help Citizens for a Fair Vote Count fund 50 organizers to 
rescue America -- to restore honest elections and teach Americans how to become active 
and effective in the 300,000 precincts across the nation -- is to do yourself a favor 
by going to http://newlife.electriclife.net and see the information there regarding 
"the strangest nutritional secret" -- electric nutrition.]


April 21, 2001 NA (Network America) ewire

The Truth About the Energy “Crisis”

The bluntness of this e-wire will shock the eyeballs out of some heads.
Others will be offended and quit the list. Others will say “Thank God
somebody finally put it together and said it. And others will say – "who
knows what"?

BUT FIRST: After the last Network America e-wire about the cover up
surrounding Timothy McVeigh and the unsuccessful government operation
known as “The Oklahoma City bombing” (unsuccessful because this
deliberately staged mass murder in the very heartland of America did not
stampede the American public into supporting the prepared
“anti-terrorist” legislation, anti-Free Speech legislation, and
anti-Second Amendment legislation in its wake), several readers wrote in
and suggested a possibility I had thought about but had not dared say.

They suggested the possibility that Tim McVeigh will not be killed in
mid May, but that he will be put to sleep while the instruments show he
goes dead – with the 160 or so family members of the victims watching
via closed circuit TV to “validate” the execution. Under this theory,
McVeigh is playing the part of patsy and is being told he will be put
into a kind of witness protection program with altered identity. The
reason this was suggested is that, according to these sources, McVeigh
has requested “for religious reasons” that no autopsy be done on his
body – and that the court has approved his request. If anyone can offer
solid evidence on this point, I would definitely publish it right away.
Such a request would be so ridiculous as to raise such suspicions. (Can
you imagine? A man who wantonly murders 168 people -- suddenly has
religious qualms about an autopsy!)

Time is short – so if anyone can document this “no autopsy” request by
McVeigh, please do so with “McVeigh Autopsy” in the subject line so I
will see it. The only thing I want to re-emphasize for now – is that
McVeigh will not be allowed to speak to the public live, nor will any of
his alleged audiotapes be made public. We are being told that McVeigh is
being allowed 15 minutes a day to do press interviews. Who are these
interviewers? What do you want to bet they are all the usual CIA
approved suspects from NBC to Time Magazine. McVeigh will not be allowed
to speak to the public, -- he might say something that doesn’t “fit.”
However, my only feeling is that whatever McVeigh is being told,
whatever role he thinks he’s playing – he will be killed on that
execution table. If the “no autopsy request” story is true, -- it may
have been done for McVeigh’s benefit.

Before moving to the energy “crisis”, I want to state again my
revulstion at the sight of the the Big 5 TV Networks milking and
shamelessly exploiting the stunned grief of the family members of the
victims of the Oklahoma City bombing with their right hands, while
covering up all the evidence of a government conspiracy around McViegh
with the other.

On to the energy “crisis”:

There is one reason for our ongoing bouts with “energy crisis” since the
1970’s: the almost all powerful “Zionist” Lobby needs Americans to
believe that “we must have oil from the middle east” so that we will be
willing to send our sons and daughters to the middle east to defend the
state of Israel against the Arab world.

In conjunction with this explosive revelation, the following points
should be covered:

1. Before some of you start hurling the now diminished charge of
“anti-Semitism” at this writer – please realize that there is a whole
raft of intelligent, articulate Jewish groups and individuals who are
adamantly opposed to the way the government of the State of Israel has
been operating in the middle east, and the way its “Zionist” lobby arm
operates in the United States.

Researchers can go to the website: jewsnotzionists.org -- for starters.
Then go over to the MER site --- middleeast.org – hosted by Jewish
writer Mark Bruzonzky. Then find the book “The Zionist Connection” by
Jewish author Arthur Lillienthal. Then go to gsgbooks.com  -- wh

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 4/22/01 8:04:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< is it not blasphemous to put words and policies (or anything to hand) into

jesus's mouth? >>

Why would you say this, politicians and religious leaders do it on a daily
basis. Besides, this is exactly what he would say on this issue. Jesus was
not politically correct. He would say what was on his mind and mean it. He
didn't worry about hurting someone's feelings.

Bill H

Bill H

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[c.]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Bill Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and
homosexuals?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 4/22/01 8:04:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << is it not blasphemous to put words and policies (or anything to hand)
into
>
> jesus's mouth? >>
>
> Why would you say this,

because i am certain that it is blasphemous to make up the word of god. so
if he didn't actually say anything about letting homosexuals or lesbians
look after children-  then it would be blasphemous to suggest that he did.

 politicians and religious leaders do it on a daily
> basis.

yes, they do- it does not make it less blasphemous.

 >Besides, this is exactly what he would say on this issue.

ok- i just wanted to know how you came to that decision. like to explain?


>Jesus was
> not politically correct.

that is irrelevent- i am not claiming correctness - i am just curious as to
why you think he would have said that.

He would say what was on his mind and mean it. He
> didn't worry about hurting someone's feelings.

fine, so tell and be frank already

>
> Bill H
>
> Bill H
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] A Comanche Patriot Tries to Save the White Man (fwd)

[Yardbird]

-Caveat Lector-

A Comanche Patriot Tries to Save the White Man

FrontPageMagazine.com  | January 17, 2001
http://www.frontpagemag.com/poesnotepad/2001/pn01-17-01.htm

"I'M A PATRIOT because I love and value what America stands for,"
says Dr. David A. Yeagley, a Comanche Indian and humanities professor
at Oklahoma State University in Oklahoma City. "I value freedom, and
I'm willing to fight for it."

Next month, Yeagley takes his fight to the state legislature, which
will consider his proposal to add an optional patriotism course to
Oklahoma's high school curriculum. Governor Frank Keating has
endorsed the plan.

Yeagley dreams of taking his course national. "Patriotism has to be
taught," he says. "It doesn't just grow out of the ground."

Up to now, U.S. schools have done an exceptionally poor job of
teaching it. A Zogby poll taken in June 2000 showed that nearly one
third of American college students are not proud to be Americans.

"As an Indian, I feel it is my sacred honor to save the white man
again, this time, from himself," says Yeagley, who holds a divinity
degree from Yale. "Before he gives this country away, thus defeating
me twice, I want to try to save what he built out of my land."

Indians saved the white man before, says Yeagley, when they helped
the first settlers get established. Now they must save him again,
this time from political correctness.

"White guilt is the biggest flaw in the American psyche," warns
Yeagley.

As a Comanche, Yeagley feels no guilt over his ancestors'
deeds. "They were the lords of the south plains," he says. "They
kicked out all the other Indians. They had no tolerance for other
Indians, no tolerance for white people, no tolerance for anybody
except themselves."
Comanche elders have been instilling that warrior spirit in their
young, for centuries, through the stories and customs of their
ancestors.

Unfortunately, says Yeagley, white Americans have failed to do the
same. The fighting spirit that built this country has been allowed to
fade.

The problem became clear to him last summer, when he assigned his
class to debate the question of whether or not patriotism should be
taught in school. After a two-hour discussion, the student jury voted
no.

"They were afraid that skinheads and militia people would somehow get
control of it," says Yeagley.

Beyond such scare images from the media, his students had little
concept of patriotism. Yeagley made up his mind to design a course
that would fill the gap.

"America has held out this offer of charity for all, that everyone,
including minorities, can have a better life," says Yeagley. "But if
you want to be kind to people and charitable and indulgent, you have
to do it from a position of strength, otherwise you lose the ability
to do any good for anybody."

In their willingness to indulge even the most extreme demands of the
Jesse Jackson crowd, white Americans are slowly giving up their
strength, warns Yeagley.

"I think it's demonstrable that, historically speaking, the most
people get the best deal under this system," says Yeagley. "I'm
trying to come to the rescue here and say to the white man, look,
don't destroy everything you have. If you don't want the country,
give it back to me! Don't give it away to someone else."

Born of a Comanche mother and a white father, Yeagley has always been
fascinated by the question of identity.

"I was curious to know what makes a people a nation," he says.

Yeagley concluded that love is at the root of it. "It's difficult to
love an abstract idea, especially for young people. You love real
things, the land, the people, the language, the food. Basic things."

Yeagley wants to focus on those basic things in his proposed course,
teaching a simple love and respect for one's people and culture.

"Being willing to take your grocery cart back into the store instead
of leaving it in front of somebody's car, I think that's patriotic,"
he says.

During Yeagley's classroom debate over patriotism last summer, one
young man confessed, "Dr. Yeagley, I don't think we have a clue of
what you're talking about. When I think of patriotism, all I can
think of is my grandfather who fought in World War II. I think of old
people."

Maybe that's not such a bad thing, Yeagley suggests. It is the elders
who preserve the stories of the tribe.

"If an Indian wants to know what it means to be Indian, he asks his
elders," says Yeagley. "If you want to know what it means to be
patriotic American, ask your grandfather. He'll tell you."

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement 

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 4/22/01 8:41:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< He would say what was on his mind and mean it. He

> didn't worry about hurting someone's feelings.


fine, so tell and be frank already >>

So, we agree on that point anyway.

Jesus being a Jew accepted the Old Testament as containing the truth. In the
OT there are more than a few references to Homosexually as being an
abomination before God. Read the account of what happened to Sodom and
Gomorra.
In the New Testament we notice that Jesus likes little children and is
conserned about their welfare.

So, if God views Homosexually as an abomination (sin for you people with a
public school education :)) and God as Jesus likes little children, then why
would he want those homosexual sinners to have little children?

Bill H

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[c.]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Bill Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and
homosexuals?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 4/22/01 8:41:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << He would say what was on his mind and mean it. He
>
> > didn't worry about hurting someone's feelings.
>
>
> fine, so tell and be frank already >>
>
> So, we agree on that point anyway.
>
> Jesus being a Jew accepted the Old Testament as containing the truth. In
the
> OT there are more than a few references to Homosexually as being an
> abomination before God. Read the account of what happened to Sodom and
> Gomorra.
> In the New Testament we notice that Jesus likes little children and is
> conserned about their welfare.
>
> So, if God views Homosexually as an abomination (sin for you people with a
> public school education :)) and God as Jesus likes little children, then
why
> would he want those homosexual sinners to have little children?
>

jesus was a radical god because he was a forgiving god. he showed this by
associating closely with taxmen and prostitutes and he defended it too. so
it is not a massive leap to assume in a small way that a prostitute or a
taxman is socially on par with a homosexual? or is sodomy worse? and is
homosexual sodomy worse than hetrosexual in god's eyes? and is a lesbian the
same as a sodomite? why?

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Alleged Jack the Ripper Note Tells Grisly Tale

[Yardbird]

-Caveat Lector-

Letter From the Edge
April 20 — In a scrawled, smudged letter written in Cockney English, a man
claiming to be the infamous serial killer Jack the Ripper described a foiled
attempt to kill a woman and promised to find another victim soon.

The eerie note to a London doctor, made public by the government Thursday,
is filled with spelling errors mimicking the Cockney accent and gives the
gruesome details of an attempted murder.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/britain010420_jack.html

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/22/01 10:41:38 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> In a message dated 4/22/01 8:04:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << is it not blasphemous to put words and policies (or anything to hand)
into
>
> jesus's mouth? >>

No more so than speaking for any other mythical character.

Bill.

[CTRL] Waco: Year 8 (fwd)

[Yardbird]

-Caveat Lector-

Waco: Year 8
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=919

KORESH = CYRUS !!!
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=915

Research into the Power Elite's secretive Bilderberg Conferences - from
Bristol - England - For advanced researchers.
http://www.apfn.org/bilderberg.org/

Bilderberg 2001 - May 24-28 nr Gothenburg Sweden?
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=871

We The People Law Class with Ken Evens
http://micromann.freeservers.com/index.html

Casualties of a toxic war From The Tampa Tribune
http://tampatrib.com/MGAUCKCXTLC.html

This site makes for interesting reading, especially the
underground base links and the cool links are good also.
http://www.sauderzone.com/

UNARMED AND UNSAFE
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/unarmed.htm

Fuel Air Devices (cheap explosives)
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=893

What the President Should Know about our Monetary System
http://www.fame.org/HTM/President16.htm

The Fight for Honest Monetary Weights and Measures (Honest Money) is
not a new fight. It was fought, and won, several times in the last century.
In particular, ordinary people have always supported honest monetary weights
and measures and always opposed fiat money, a.k.a. paper money. Set
forth below are some quotations from some more famous personalities who
expressed thoughts on the money issue. Also included are some revealing
quotations from official publications, such as those published by the Federal
Reserve.
http://www.fame.org/

Power of Positive Patriotism
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/apfncont.htm

Public Education System vs Christian Home Schooling
Home School News, Info. & Links
http://www.ordination.org/homeschool.htm

The breakthrough for signals from the internet on the phone began with
the Carterfone decision in 1968, founded by Tom Carter, Dallas, Texas.
http://www.envax.net/history.htm

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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[CTRL] Search For Momo Continues

[William Shannon]

http://www.hannibal.net/stories/041901/com_0419010003.html



Search for Momo continues

 By DON KRAUSE

 04/19/01
Courier-Post Regional Editor

 An investigative team is in the city of Louisiana seeking possible clues to
a monster legend that stalked the community in 1972.

A team from the International Society of Cryptozoology is seeking information
on the Missouri Monster, Momo.

A member of the team, Bill Riley, a Hannibal native, reported seeing Momo in
1972. Riley now heads bigfootbusters.com, which is sponsoring the expedition.

"He came to me with this report and I find it very credible," said Richard
Greenwell, a zoologist with the International Wildlife Museum and ISC's
secretary. "We got to talking about coming back one day and meeting the other
witnesses from the 70s. Maybe other witnesses, who have kept it to themselves
to avoid ridicule, might be willing to talk after all these years."

Riley, who had kept his encounter with Momo quiet for years, said there are
reports of creature sightings going back many years.

"A lot of people do not realize the Momo sightings in '72 were not the
beginning, there's sightings that go back into the 1800s around the area,"
said Riley.

Greenwell said that is often common across the country.

"If you start digging through the newspaper archives you'll find reports
going back to the 1800s when there were reports of guerrillas or Wild Men,"
he said. "There'll be a little article in a paper and then you don't hear
anything about it and it gets forgotten."

It was a little different in Louisiana in the summer of 1972.

According to a Courier-Post article, Louisiana resident Edgar Harrison
received a call at work from his children on July 10, 1972 about something
they had seen.

His 15-year-old daughter reported seeing "a monster about 10 feet tall,
standing on two legs like a man, with long black hair all over and holding
the body of a dog, still bleeding, in one of his arms."

When he arrived home about 30 minutes later, he began searching for the
creature, and only noticed a foul stench like an old mold, a few black hairs
and some broken brush. However, he was convinced his children had seen
something.

Within a week there were three other incidents involving the alleged monster.

Riley said his encounter involved Momo emerging from a treeline and then
following behind him. He said the creature stepped over a fence "without
losing a stride."

Although reports of Bigfoot or Sasquatch are often associated with the
Pacific Northwest, Greenwell said there are reported sightings scattered
across the United States.

"We're getting reports from all over the country," he said, noting reports
from Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, as well as the midwest."

Regardless of what it is, whether it is a social phenomenon or a zoological
one, these reports keep coming in," Greenwell said.

"The Pacific Northwest is the core area where we get most reports, but if
this thing exists, there could be remnant populations in other parts of the
country," he added. "Of course local people would give it local names, Momo,
Skunk Ape, it would all be the same."

While in the area, the investigative team hopes to find some pieces to add to
the mystery.

"We hope to uncover some more evidence to add to the archives, and who knows,
maybe some evidence that's still roaming around," said Riley.

Greenwell will talk to the public tonight at 6 p.m. and7:30 p.m. at the
Louisiana Middle School. There is a $3 fee.

[CTRL] Foriegn Devil

[William Shannon]

http://www.antiwar.com/cockburn/cockburn-col.html





Foreign Devil

Alexander Cockburn


The political corruption of three Scottish judges has preserved Libya’s 
Colonel Muammar Qaddafi as one of the United States’ indispensable devils, 
outranked only by Fidel Castro in protraction and utility of service to the 
world’s number one imperial and war-making power. (As the recent imbroglio 
with China nicely illustrated, a useful devil has to be insignificant as a 
substantive threat to US interests. China is far too significant to US 
corporate interests to be trifled with lightly, and so the spy plane crisis 
was resolved without too much ado.)


Qaddafi has been a useful devil for over quarter of a century, reaching an 
apogee as a "threat" in the Reagan years when the CIA invented a Libyan 
assassination team, supposedly headed south from Canada to attack the White 
House, which was speedily fortified by concrete barricades that remained in 
place for many years thereafter. The US struck back by bombing Qaddafi’s 
compound. The White House had prepared a news release regretting the 
"accidental" death of the Libyan leader, but found to its chagrin that 
Qaddafi had survived the raid, which did manage to claim the life of his 
daughter.


Then came the downing of PanAm Flight 103 over Lockerbie in December, 1988 
with the deaths of 270 people, followed by a determined bid by US security 
agencies such as the CIA and FBI to pin the blame on Qaddafi. In fact there’s 
plenty of evidence to suggest that Iran instigated the sabotage of PanAm 
Flight 103 in revenge for the shooting down of its civilian airbus over the 
Persian Gulf by the US missile carrier Vincennes, whose officers were 
subsequently decorated for their heroism in blowing away the civilian plane 
and 290 passengers. But the US had scant way of punishing Iran, and so Libya 
once again was mustered to fulfill its Satanic role as the convenient 
receptacle for US outrage.


The case against Libya and specifically the two Libyans, Abdelbasset al 
Megrahi and Al Amin Fhimah, was always frail in the extreme, which is no 
doubt why Qaddafi finally agreed to send the two for trial by Scotch judges 
in a courtroom in Holland. The actual trial left most dispassionate observers 
all the more convinced that the three judges would have no option but than to 
find the prosecution’s case non-proven. But then came a huge public relations 
victory from the US and its ever compliant satellite, the UK. The three 
Scotch judges declared that Megrahi was indeed guilty of planting the bomb, 
and sentenced him to 20 years, a verdict he is now appealing. They found 
Fhimah innocent.


Now, in the first criticism of the verdict in the trial of two Libyans, Hans 
Koechler, a distinguished Austrian philosopher appointed as one of five 
international observers at the trial at Zeist, in Holland by Secretary 
General Kofi Annan to observe the trial, has issued a well merited 
denunciation of the Judges’ bizarre conclusion. "In my opinion," Koechler 
writes, "there seemed to be considerable political influence on the judges 
and the verdict."


Koechler’s analysis of the proceedings is by no means an exercise in legal 
esoterica. Basically, he points out that the judges found Megrahi guilty even 
though they themselves admitted that his identification by a Maltese shop 
owner (summoned by the prosecution to testify that Megrahi bought clothes 
later deemed to have been packed in the lethal suitcase-bomb) was "not 
absolute" and that there was a "mass of conflicting evidence."


Furthermore, Koechler queries the active involvement of senior US Justice 
Department officials as part of the Scottish prosecution team "in a 
supervisory role." No one should have needed an Austrian philosopher to point 
out that the verdict was a travesty. So feeble was the prosecution case that, 
last September, Scotland’s most prominent legal expert, Professor Robert 
Black of Edinburgh University, predicted that the judges would have little 
option other than a unanimous "not guilty". Such expectations in the 
integrity of Scottish justice, were similarly nourished by many others, 
including Nelson Mandela, many of the victims’ relatives, the defendants 
themselves and all those who had previously resisted efforts to drag the 
accused in front of a US Federal Court or some similar Star Chamber.


Assuming a requisite degree of judicial impartiality, the prosecution case 
absolutely depended on proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Megrahi was the 
man who bought the clothes, traced by police to a Maltese clothes shop, and 
later packed in with the bomb. In 19 separate statements to police prior to 
the trial the shopkeeper, Tony Gauci, had failed to make a positive 
identification. In the witness box, Gauci was asked five times if he 
recognized anyone in the courtroom. No answer. Finally, the exasperated 
prosecutor pointed to the dock and asked if the man sitting on the left was 
th

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 4/22/01 9:46:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< jesus was a radical god because he was a forgiving god. he showed this by

associating closely with taxmen and prostitutes and he defended it too. >>

Just because Jesus was a radical God (He was attempting to reform the Jewish
regilion) and he associated with Taxman and Prostitutes does not mean that he
approved of Homosexually. I see no proof of that.

Sodomy is sodomy, period. The only ones over here who think that sodomy is OK
are the homosexuals and the liberals. The rest of the population knows that
it is wrong. I don't know about the customs regarding sodomy in your country,
but I have heard stories about what happens to young boys in your public
schools.

And is a lesbian the same as a sodomite? My limited medical knowledge tells
me that a lesbian is incapable of performing sodomy by herself. She needs an
artificial device to perform the act.

Bill H

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/22/01 12:28:35 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:


Sodomy is sodomy, period. The only ones over here who think that sodomy is OK
are the homosexuals and the liberals. The rest of the population knows that
it is wrong. I don't know about the customs regarding sodomy in your
country,
but I have heard stories about what happens to young boys in your public
schools.

And is a lesbian the same as a sodomite? My limited medical knowledge tells
me that a lesbian is incapable of performing sodomy by herself. She needs an
artificial device to perform the act.

"Sodomy" is oral OR anal sex.
So is it wrong according to your brand of superstition to engage in oral sex
with one's wife?
If so, and if you stick to this silly creed, I can only wonder to whom your
wife turns for her sexual gratification.

Bill.

[CTRL] Bin Laden joins Arafat

[Nurev Ind.]

-Caveat Lector-

Bin Laden joins Arafat
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22495

Saudi master of terror ready to strike Israel?

C 2001 WorldNetDaily.com


Saudi master of terror Osama bin Laden is set to join Yasser Arafat's
uprising against Israel, according to DEBKA-Net-Weekly's counter-terrorism
sources.

According to the intelligence report, the U.S. tipped off Israel last week
that bin Laden's al Qaeda cells and networks in Lebanon were complete and
ready to launch strikes in Israel. They operate under the command of Imad
Mughniyeh, terrorism and intelligence consultant to Iranian spiritual
leader
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the report. As former head of the Lebanese
militant Hezbollah's security apparatus in the 1980s, Mughniyeh was
responsible for the 1993 bombing of the U.S. Embassy and Marine barracks in
Beirut and the blasting of Israeli locations in Argentina.

The Bin Laden-Mughniyeh alliance for terrorizing the West is long-standing,
according to the DEBKA-Net-Weekly report. It was forged in the early 1990s
by the Egyptian-born former U.S. army sergeant Ali Mohamed, who, on Oct.
20,
2000, became the first of bin Laden's associates to plead guilty in a U.S.
court to conspiring with the Saudi terrorist.

Mohamed's confession is the key to convicting the five suspects (of a list
of 22) who are currently on trial before the Manhattan federal court for
the
1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed 223
people
including 12 Americans. The U.S. indictment against him cites Mohamed as
revealing that bin Laden and Mughniyeh carried out joint operations in the
past with direct support from Iran.

Next week, Arafat has plans to attend an international conference in
support
of the intifada in Tehran. It is his first trip to Iran in many years.
According to a report in the New York Daily News, Iranian intelligence
decided recently that Arafat has "resumed the path of the people" by
launching the 5-month-old intifada and by breaking off peace talks with
Israel.

Arafat plans to meet with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in a trip that has been
kept quiet throughout the Middle East.

The stated goal of the conference is to seek "ways to establish an
independent Palestinian state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean
 Sea" - which, of course, means the elimination of the state of Israel.

Attendees at the conference include a veritable who's who of Islamic
terrorism -- representatives of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for
the Liberation of Palestine and Hezbollah.

The Palestinian Authority is reportedly keeping the Iran trip quiet because
of Arafat's official renunciation of terrorism, for which he won the Nobel
Peace Prize and gained recognition as a negotiating partner with Israel and
the U.S.

Editor's note: DEBKA-Net-Weekly
is a weekly electronic intelligence report
available in the WorldNetDaily online store.
http://www.dxmarket.com/worldnetdaily/products/P0012.html

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Bin Laden joins Arafat

[Foxter]

 
The Bible speaks of the King of the North 
(Saudi?) and the King of the South (Laden) going against Jerusalem.  

 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Nurev Ind. 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 1:54 
PM
  Subject: [CTRL] Bin Laden joins 
  Arafat
  -Caveat Lector-Bin Laden joins Arafathttp://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22495Saudi 
  master of terror ready to strike Israel?C 2001 
  WorldNetDaily.comSaudi master of terror Osama bin Laden is set to 
  join Yasser Arafat'suprising against Israel, according to 
  DEBKA-Net-Weekly's counter-terrorismsources.According to the 
  intelligence report, the U.S. tipped off Israel last weekthat bin Laden's 
  al Qaeda cells and networks in Lebanon were complete andready to launch 
  strikes in Israel. They operate under the command of ImadMughniyeh, 
  terrorism and intelligence consultant to Iranian 
  spiritualleaderAyatollah Ali Khamenei, said the report. As former head 
  of the Lebanesemilitant Hezbollah's security apparatus in the 1980s, 
  Mughniyeh wasresponsible for the 1993 bombing of the U.S. Embassy and 
  Marine barracks inBeirut and the blasting of Israeli locations in 
  Argentina.The Bin Laden-Mughniyeh alliance for terrorizing the West is 
  long-standing,according to the DEBKA-Net-Weekly report. It was forged in 
  the early 1990sby the Egyptian-born former U.S. army sergeant Ali Mohamed, 
  who, on Oct.20,2000, became the first of bin Laden's associates to 
  plead guilty in a U.S.court to conspiring with the Saudi 
  terrorist.Mohamed's confession is the key to convicting the five 
  suspects (of a listof 22) who are currently on trial before the Manhattan 
  federal court forthe1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and 
  Tanzania that killed 223peopleincluding 12 Americans. The U.S. 
  indictment against him cites Mohamed asrevealing that bin Laden and 
  Mughniyeh carried out joint operations in thepast with direct support from 
  Iran.Next week, Arafat has plans to attend an international conference 
  insupportof the intifada in Tehran. It is his first trip to Iran in 
  many years.According to a report in the New York Daily News, Iranian 
  intelligencedecided recently that Arafat has "resumed the path of the 
  people" bylaunching the 5-month-old intifada and by breaking off peace 
  talks withIsrael.Arafat plans to meet with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei 
  in a trip that has beenkept quiet throughout the Middle East.The 
  stated goal of the conference is to seek "ways to establish anindependent 
  Palestinian state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea" - 
  which, of course, means the elimination of the state of 
  Israel.Attendees at the conference include a veritable who's who of 
  Islamicterrorism -- representatives of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Popular 
  Front forthe Liberation of Palestine and Hezbollah.The Palestinian 
  Authority is reportedly keeping the Iran trip quiet becauseof Arafat's 
  official renunciation of terrorism, for which he won the NobelPeace Prize 
  and gained recognition as a negotiating partner with Israel andthe 
  U.S.Editor's note: DEBKA-Net-Weeklyis a weekly electronic 
  intelligence reportavailable in the WorldNetDaily online store.http://www.dxmarket.com/worldnetdaily/products/P0012.htmlwww.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org>DECLARATION 
  & DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion & informational 
  exchange list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. 
  Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These aresordid matters and 
  'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-directions and outright 
  frauds-is used politically by different groups withmajor and minor effects 
  spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, 
  CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to 
  readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust 
  denial and nazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, 
  Caveat 
  Lector.Archives 
  Available at:http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives'>http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives 
  of[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrlhttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl>To 
  subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE 
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  UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SIGNOFF 
  CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Om

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[c.]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Bill Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and
homosexuals?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 4/22/01 9:46:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << jesus was a radical god because he was a forgiving god. he showed this
by
>
> associating closely with taxmen and prostitutes and he defended it too. >>
>
> Just because Jesus was a radical God (He was attempting to reform the
Jewish
> regilion) and he associated with Taxman and Prostitutes does not mean that
he
> approved of Homosexually. I see no proof of that.

of course not.
another tack then, were the homosexual/ hetrosexual ratio the same as today?
if it was then jesus musta tolerated one or two of them working very closely
12 apostles. even at the most consevative stretch 1 in 12 then he would have
been tolerating at least one (and don't tell me he wouldn't have known- he
was god remember) in his flock

>
> Sodomy is sodomy, period. The only ones over here who think that sodomy is
OK

and if they are all democrat voters then there are more of them than there
are of you hehe

> are the homosexuals and the liberals. The rest of the population knows
that
> it is wrong. I don't know about the customs regarding sodomy in your
country,

oh, don't, the laws on sodomy in the UK are just so gay, you would not
believe.

> but I have heard stories about what happens to young boys in your public
> schools.

ditto, frat boy ;)

>
> And is a lesbian the same as a sodomite? My limited medical knowledge
tells
> me that a lesbian is incapable of performing sodomy by herself. She needs
an
> artificial device to perform the act.

LOL no way... no way you really believe you just said that!

i hope you are counting fingers and limbs etc, as artifical objects.



>
> Bill H
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] McCaffrey vs Gov. Johnson on 'Meet the Press'

[tribalzidane]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:05:54 , [EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:

> Sunday April 22, 2001 on NBC's 'Meet the Press'
> McCaffrey debates Gov. Gary Johnson about drug legalization.
>
> Should be a good debate.  Gary is coming off the NORML Conf. and the CNN
> debate.  He  should be sharp.

This should be a list of the replays, but I don't know for sure.  Check your
local listings.  All these listed are Central Daylight Time, so adjust for
your time zone:

Meet the Press KARE - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 1:35 AM
Meet the Press KCRA - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 5:30 AM
Meet the Press  KGW - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 5:00 AM
Meet the Press KING - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 5:35 AM
Meet the Press KMOL - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 3:00 AM
Meet the Press KNBC - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 5:00 AM
Meet the Press KNSD - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 4:00 AM
Meet the Press KPNX - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 5:05 AM
Meet the Press KSHB - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 3:00 AM
Meet the Press  KSL - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 4:00 AM
Meet the Press KUSA - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 4:15 AM
Meet the Press KUSA - Sun, Apr 22, 2001 11:45 PM
Meet the Press KXAS - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 3:25 AM

Meet the Press WCAU - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:30 AM
Meet the Press WCNC - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:00 AM
Meet the Press WDIV - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:30 AM
Meet the Press WHDH - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:30 AM
Meet the Press WKYC - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:00 AM
Meet the Press WLWT - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:30 AM
Meet the Press WMAQ - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:35 AM
Meet the Press WNBC - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:05 AM
Meet the Press WNCN - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:30 AM
Meet the Press  WRC - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 1:00 AM
Meet the Press WSMV - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 1:00 AM
Meet the Press WTHR - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 3:00 AM
Meet the Press WTVJ - Mon, Apr 23, 2001 2:30 AM

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Slave Reparations

[Yardbird]

-Caveat Lector-

Footing the Bill for Slave Reparations
by Michael Quinn Sullivan

20 Apr, 2001
Perhaps the American black leadership has it right; perhaps it is indeed time for 
reparations. But perhaps it is Africans who should foot the bill.

Many have watched with interest as human rights activists, journalists and government 
officials try to determine what recently happened to more than 250 slave-children a 
Nigerian ship allegedly transported around Africa to serve as factory laborers, 
domestics in the homes of the continent...

Go to 
http://www.CNSNEWS.com/ViewCommentary.asp?Page=\Commentary\archive\200104\COM20010420d.html
 to view the full story.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Videos of non-lethal technology

[kl]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.m2technologiesinc.com
--

Best Wishes


It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of certain
opinions makes it impossible to earn a living. - Bertrand Russell

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 4/22/01 10:35:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< "Sodomy" is oral OR anal sex.

Websters New Unabridged Dictionary says, Sodomy, n. any sexual intercourse
regarded as abnormal, as between persons of the same sex, especally between
males, or between a person and an animal.
Strange, Webster doesn't say anything about oral sex. Could it be your are
wrong again?


So is it wrong according to your brand of superstition to engage in oral sex
with one's wife?
If so, and if you stick to this silly creed, I can only wonder to whom your
wife turns for her sexual gratification.

Bill. >>

What does my sex life have to do with the orginal question, should homos
raising little children or what is sodomy? Or do you get your sexual
gratification from watching / reading about other peoples sexual encounters?

Bill H

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 4/22/01 11:04:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< another tack then, were the homosexual/ hetrosexual ratio the same as
today?

if it was then jesus musta tolerated one or two of them working very closely

12 apostles. even at the most consevative stretch 1 in 12 then he would have

been tolerating at least one (and don't tell me he wouldn't have known- he

was god remember) in his flock >>

Again, we don't know. There were no sociologists counting the different
groups of people . We can only assume, and assuming can cause trouble.
But with the jewish take on homosexually, it can be assumed that they were
not welcome in the better classes of society.

Oh, yeah. Fingers are an exception.

Bill H

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Yardbird]

-Caveat Lector-

> In a message dated 4/22/01 11:04:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << another tack then, were the homosexual/ hetrosexual ratio the same as
> today?
>
> if it was then jesus musta tolerated one or two of them working very closely
>
> 12 apostles. even at the most consevative stretch 1 in 12 then he would have
>
> been tolerating at least one (and don't tell me he wouldn't have known- he
>
> was god remember) in his flock >>

This is a specious claim - if homosexuals do exist in such a ratio with
heterosexuals it does not necessarily follow that every group of 12
persons will have a homosexual amongst it. Unless of course all
demographic constructs are predicated on political correctness and that
social groups are inherently obeying some transcendental Law of Heterodox
Sexual Inclusion.
Jamieson

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[bLiTz666]

-Caveat Lector-

On 4/22/01 3:01 PM Bill Howard put out the following propaganda:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 4/22/01 10:35:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << "Sodomy" is oral OR anal sex.
>
> Websters New Unabridged Dictionary says, Sodomy, n. any sexual intercourse
> regarded as abnormal, as between persons of the same sex, especally between
> males, or between a person and an animal.
> Strange, Webster doesn't say anything about oral sex. Could it be your are
> wrong again?

actually the American Heritage College Dictionary defines it as this:

Sodomy: 1. Anal copulation  of one male with another. 2. Anal or oral
copulation with a member of the opposite sex. 3. Copulation with an animal

So could it be the YOU are wrong???


--
We are trying to subvert the system. We would like to see the
system collapse. When I say the system, I mean the modern
industrial system as we know it. And one reason we see the
modern industrial system so destructive, is because it's
based on the premise that human beings are superior & it
teaches that for human beings the world exists.

The Technological Revolution=Genocide of Human Species

Earth First!
http://bcn.boulder.co.us/environment/earthfirst/Misc/Note.htm
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9901/
http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/ef/earthfirst.html

Shannon 'bLiTz' Magnani
--

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Yardbird]

-Caveat Lector-

>
> actually the American Heritage College Dictionary defines it as this:
>
> Sodomy: 1. Anal copulation  of one male with another. 2. Anal or oral
> copulation with a member of the opposite sex. 3. Copulation with an animal
>
> So could it be the YOU are wrong???

Well the Oxford Paperback Dictionary defines it as this:

Sodomy: noun 1 anal intercourse. 2 sexual intercourse between a person and
an animal.

So perhaps you're wrong Blitz...

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[bLiTz666]

-Caveat Lector-

On 4/22/01 4:10 PM Yardbird put out the following propaganda:

>> actually the American Heritage College Dictionary defines it as this:
>>
>> Sodomy: 1. Anal copulation  of one male with another. 2. Anal or oral
>> copulation with a member of the opposite sex. 3. Copulation with an animal
>>
>> So could it be the YOU are wrong???
>
> Well the Oxford Paperback Dictionary defines it as this:
>
> Sodomy: noun 1 anal intercourse. 2 sexual intercourse between a person and
> an animal.

oh my god i apologize from the depths of my anals you are right oh
god...there does that make you feel better...again YOU ARE WRONG IN THE EYES
OF THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY...take you Oxford and shove it up your
tight ass...oh but then that would be sodomy committed by a
dictionary...right???

--
We are trying to subvert the system. We would like to see the
system collapse. When I say the system, I mean the modern
industrial system as we know it. And one reason we see the
modern industrial system so destructive, is because it's
based on the premise that human beings are superior & it
teaches that for human beings the world exists.

The Technological Revolution=Genocide of Human Species

Earth First!
http://bcn.boulder.co.us/environment/earthfirst/Misc/Note.htm
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9901/
http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/ef/earthfirst.html

Shannon 'bLiTz' Magnani
--

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 4/22/01 1:57:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< So could it be the YOU are wrong??? >>

Nope.

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[CTRL] Britain is now a surveillance state

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

Britain is now a surveillance state

NO HIDING PLACE

April 15 2001 SUNDAY TIMES (UK) MAGAZINE

Britain is now a surveillance state. The authorities may be prying into your
'private' life this second. And in the electronic age, it is much easier for
innocent people to be mistaken for criminals. Bryan Appleyard investigates




Privacy is dead. We are watched by 1.5m closed-circuit television cameras,
more per head of population than any country on Earth. Our government,
police and intelligence services have more legal powers to poke around in
our private lives than those of communist China. And thanks to new
technologies from mobile phones to the internet, they can use those powers
to find out where we are, whom we talk or send e-mails to, and what websites
we click on. According to most experts in the field, a police state with
powers of control and surveillance beyond the wildest dreams of Hitler or
Stalin could now be established in Britain within 24 hours. And guess what:
MI5 probably read this article before you did. It was delivered by e-mail, a
hopelessly insecure system. It is full of the sort of security-sensitive
words the spooks look out for, and, as I shall explain, I seem to be an MI5
target.

But the weirdest thing of all is that we really don't care. To take an
example that may sound trivial but isn't, the Television Licensing Authority
is currently running an advertising campaign boasting of its ability to
invade our privacy. Hoardings show a local street sign with the caption that
declares, four people in this street don't have a TV licence and the TLA
knows who they are.

Duncan Bennett, a systems administrator with the Medical Research Council in
Cambridge, knows exactly what this means. He hasn't had a TV in 10 years and
yet, annually, he gets threatening letters from the TLA. He has now
discovered that, with no evidence against him whatsoever, they can get a
warrant - always automatically granted - to break into and search his house.
He is assumed to be guilty until proven innocent, a terrible inversion of
ancient common-law tradition. He has struggled to find anybody willing to
take up his campaign on the issue. Bennett is not suspected of
drug-trafficking, terrorism or subversion. He is suspected of having a TV
without a licence. Only in Britain would such an abuse of power - or even
such advertisements - be tolerated.

We seem to have such fear of crime, and such a mute acceptance of the
seizure of power by the authorities, that we are actually comforted by the
thought that we are being watched all the time. This, in the current climate
of paranoia and high technology, is dangerous. Our right to live a
law-abiding life without interference is now utterly compromised. The
Englishman's home is no longer his castle, it is his virtual interrogation
cell.

How did we get here? The story begins in a bedroom in Cheltenham in 1969.
James Ellis, an employee of the Government Communications Headquarters,
Britain's global listening post, had been working on the problem of coding,
more accurately known as encryption. Thanks to our cracking of the German
Enigma code during the second world war, the British were regarded as world
masters of this art. Since then, GCHQ had been working closely with the
American National Security Agency (NSA) to ensure that the good guys - us -
would always be able to crack or write codes more successfully than the bad
guys - primarily the Soviets.

In his bedroom, Ellis had an idea for a system of encryption that would be
utterly unbreakable. But his system was so completely at odds with
prevailing wisdom that it was at once rejected by almost everybody in the
code business. Ellis died in 1997, professionally anonymous to the last, and
just a month before his brilliance was generally recognised when GCHQ
finally published his papers on their website.

Until then, everybody thought the first man to have this idea was an
American named Whitfield Diffie. In 1975, Diffie had independently
experienced the same eureka moment as Ellis, but his insight was made
public. At that moment, both GCHQ and NSA, not to mention every other
security and intelligence service on the planet, suffered a crisis from
which they have yet to recover, and the issue of individual privacy leapt to
the top of the political agenda, where, almost everywhere except in Britain,
it remains.

The Ellis/Diffie invention was what is now called public key cryptography
(PKC). It is the most powerful coding system that has ever been devised.
It's what you use if you bank or buy on the internet. You don't know you're
using it: your computer does it for you. It offers everybody the power to
communicate in unbreakable codes. As a result, it's easily the worst thing
that has ever happened to the spooks and the police. Beside this, Kim Philby
was a minor hiccough.

This is how it works. Normally, if one spook wants

[CTRL] Theories on The Moon Program

[Taliesin2]

-Caveat Lector-

What are some popular theories surrounding the end of the Moon Program?
Thanks...

--
"Those who want to hear the voice of pagan gods in wind or thunder, who
want to see the fairies dance in the moonlight, who can believe that
faith can move mountains, can follow the thread on the pages of this
book. It is a fragile thread; it cannot bear the weight of facts and
dates"
-Kate Seredy, "The White Stag"
ICQ: 9815080   Operator Taliesin_2 of #SacredNemeton on IRC PaganPaths

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Woman denies terrorist label

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

Friday 20 April 2001

Woman denies terrorist label

Group 'didn't plan to hurt anyone'

The (Montreal) Gazette

"We are not terrorists," a young woman claiming to speak for a Montreal
anti-globalization group calling itself Germinal said yesterday.
Seven young men who belong to the group have been charged with conspiring
to commit life-endangering mischief at the Quebec City Summit of the
Americas this weekend.
"We were ready to assume responsibility for our actions, but not to assume
responsibility for the accusations which were made against us," she said.
The woman, in her 20s, did not want her name published, but said she was a
political science student at the Universite du Quebec a Montreal.
Her statements were made from an apartment, on Rosemont Blvd., formerly
occupied by Mario Bertoncini, 23, one of the seven men charged.
A female occupant of the apartment, who did not want to be identified
either, said Bertoncini no longer lived there, but she and the other woman
were both members of the group that has allegedly planned for several
months to break through the security fence at the summit.
"We didn't plan to hurt anyone," the occupant said. "None of the materials
seized by police were dangerous. They were only intended to help us break
through the fence. The charges have been grossly exaggerated."
Police seized smoke bombs, "thunder flash" grenade simulators, baseball
bats, slingshots and bags of steel balls, as well as motorcycle helmets and
anti-globalization literature when they nabbed two members of the
group on Highway 20 as they were nearing Quebec City Tuesday night.
Police arrested four men in the Montreal area hours later, seizing two
timing devices, fire accelerants and home-made body shields.
They issued a warrant for the arrest of another member, Pierre David Habel,
21, who surrendered to RCMP in Quebec on Wednesday night, accompanied by
his lawyer.
Habel was taken to Orsainville prison. He and the six other young men have
pleaded not guilty to plotting mischief likely to endanger life.
In Montreal, the woman claiming to be the Germinal spokesman said 15 group
members were sent to Quebec City. "There are eight more who have already
arrived in Quebec," the woman said. She would
not say whether the other members also carried tools to help them break
through the fence.
The woman said the group planned the operation for months in advance.
"All the members were acting after much political reflection. It was
obvious to us that peaceful demonstration wasn't the answer. Nobody listens."
Even so, the group planned to respect those who were demonstrating
peacefully. "We planned to break through the fence outside areas of
peaceful demonstration. There were areas where more militant
groups would welcome what we were intending to do."
The woman said most of the group members were well-educated - university
students of history, political science and economics. She said the group
was founded "around a table one night."
Of the seven men arrested, Serge Vallee was a Canadian Forces reservist and
Alex Boissoneault was a former soldier.
"Normally," the woman said, "a reservist wouldn't get in trouble for being
in possession of military equipment like the grenade simulators that were
seized. Reservists take those things home all the time."
However, she said, the group was infiltrated about two months ago.
"He called himself Nicolas. He helped buy materials for shields. He
supplied us with cell phones. He participated in meetings and he even
brought us wine.
"It was his car that was stopped on the way to Quebec - and he was in the
car. It was his car that contained the materials that were seized."
The woman said the infiltrator, who claimed to be a young entrepreneur in
his late 20s, joined the group after making friends with one of its
members. She wouldn't say who, but she did say it was one of
those arrested. Police refused to confirm or deny her story.
"The details of our investigation, which was jointly conducted by the RCMP,
the provincial police and the Canadian Forces, will come out during the
trial," Staff Sgt. Mike Gaudet of the RCMP said yesterday.
And Lt. Pierre Babinsky of the Canadian Forces said reservists are not
normally allowed to take home pyrotechnics such as the grenade simulators.
"Reservists are required to return pyrotechnic training devices before
leaving the field," Babinsky said.
One of those arrested, Roman Pokorski, 22, was a candidate for the Bloc Pot
in the 1998 Quebec election. Bloc Pot leader Marc Boris St-Maurice said he
hasn't seen or spoken to Pokorski in two years.

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Bill Howard wrote:
>> What would Jesus say?
>
>He would say, "Don't give little children to lesbians and homosexuals,"

Funny, since there is not one statement regarding homosexuality in the
whole of the New Testament attributed to having been said by Jesus
Himself.


June

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[CTRL] [radtimes] # 195

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

[radtimes] # 195

An informally produced compendium of vital irregularities.

"We're living in rad times!"
---
Send $$ to RadTimes!!  -->  (See ** at end.)
---
Contents:

--Quebec: Day One
--Naomi Klein on the Police Kidnapping of Jaggi Singh
--Water cannons and dogs, but the support of the community
--Activists in Quebec Show Evolution of an Opposition
--IMC FTAA SPECIAL NEWS BLAST | Friday, April 20, 2001
--Police, Protesters Clash in Quebec
--Protesters, Police Clash as Quebec Summit Opens
--Clashes Erupt at Summit of Americas
--Indigenous statement on FTAA

===

ZNet Update - Quebec Day One Report

Quebec: Day One

By Judy Rebick

It's not easy to upstage the opening of meeting with 34 leaders
including U.S. President George Bush.  Despite what seemed like endless
volleys of tear gas, mostly peaceful protesters came back again and
again  to Rene Levesque Boulevard in Quebec City to face down the police
and in so doing captured the attention of world media.

The battle lasted almost two hours as police chased
demonstrators off the plateau  with heavy use of tear gas and
demonstrators came back after recovering from the stinging pain in their
eyes and throats.  The most poignant moment was a sit down of about 20
people, flashing peace signs in the midst of a fog of tear gas.

Most media attention is on the perimeter breach and it was an
impressive action. First a few then more climbed up the chain-link,
surrounded the center of the city to protect the Summit of the Americas,
and in a rocking action pushed it down. By my watch it took less than
five minutes for the hated fence to come down. The amazing thing was
that only about 100 people rushed through the fence. The rest held back.
It was the protesters not the police who controlled the crowd.  I was
astounded at the discipline. There were ten or twenty people out of
about 3,000 throwing stones and bottles.  In the march that wound its
way along 6 miles  from Laval University to the perimeter, these were
the Black Bloc.  While the rest of the protest was noisy and colourful,
they were somber, solemn, dressed all in black, several armed with
sticks and stones and masked from the beginning of the march.

  No doubt there will be debates about the Black Bloc tactics.  The
creativity of the other demonstrators were lost in the confrontation.
One group calling itself the Medieval Bloc had built a 20- foot catapult
and managed to maneuver it up to police lines.  Then they hurled three
stuffed toys into the police.  One woman dressed as the Statue of
Liberty walked all the way from Laval on stilts. Another group of women
calling themselves "The Dandelions" wore T-shirts with painted slogans
like "the persistent radical blossom that will always bloom."  A young
man painted his T-shirt with the phrase, "It's hard to hit a movement
target."

Once the perimeter went down, all attention was on the intensity
of the confrontation.  And it was intense.  This was the red/yellow
march. That means there was a high chance of confrontation with the
police.  As demonstrators approached the perimeter, marshals announced
that people wanting a green (safe) zone should turn left.  No one did.
Thousands approached the perimeter.  They ran when the tear gas exploded
but they came back, time after time for two hours.

One of the most extraordinary developments on Friday was the
formation of a Canadian Labour Movement affinity group.  Affiliates of
the Canadian Labour Congress formally decided to join the direct action.

Friday was the direct action day.  Today Saturday is to be the
mass action day.  But more than 5,000 people showed up at Laval
University for the march to the perimeter knowing that it would almost
certainly lead to confrontation with the police.

There have been long debates about what should happen today when
an estimated 40,000 people are expected to join the People's March of
the Americas.  Organizers of today's march have decided to march away
from the perimeter they say for safety reasons.  With so many people
involved and the narrow streets of this beautiful old city, people could
get trapped against the wall and hurt.

Others have argued that it is politically wrong to avoid the
perimeter fence, which has become a hated symbol of the reduction of
public space that free trade is inflicted upon us.  What likely will
happen is once the main march is over a group will split off and march
to the wall.

Organizers of the People's Summit are upset about Friday's
action.  They feel it brings discredit down on the movement .  But it
seems to me that it is direct confrontation with the police that has
drawn so many 

[CTRL] [radtimes] # 196

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

[radtimes] # 196

An informally produced compendium of vital irregularities.

"We're living in rad times!"
---
Send $$ to RadTimes!!  -->  (See ** at end.)
---
Contents:

--Report from Medic: Worst police brutality ever seen
--Leaders Hunker Down Amid Summit Protests
--Protesters Seize Day In Quebec
--85 confirmed arrests, 50 unconfirmed
--Demonstrators Turn Anger on 'Wall'
--Police Fire Rubber Bullets at Summit
--Quebec City: an armed camp
--ADBWatch says media concentrating on violence in Quebec
--Police, Anarchists Clash Near Americas Summit Site
--Violent clash in Quebec
--Cops accused of subterfuge

===

Report from Medic

http://vermont.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=773&group=webcast

by IMC Sat Apr 21 '01

Worst police brutality ever seen

According to street medic and clinician, Doc Rosen, this is some of the
worst police brutality he has ever seen. He said the police are acting
with more violence than N30 in Seattle. The medics have been treating
many burns, broken bones, teargas related injuries, head injuries, and
even a C-Spine injury from a rubber bullet. The QC police are
intentionally aiming tear gas canisters and plastic bullets at peoples
heads, beating people, shooting them with water cannons, and just being
brutal in general.

===

Leaders Hunker Down Amid Summit Protests

By Saul Hudson
Reuters

QUEBEC CITY (April 21) - Western Hemisphere leaders hunkered down on Saturday
to discuss free trade behind a security fence that was under attack from
rock-throwing protesters determined to further disrupt their Quebec City
summit.

Defying riot police who repeatedly fired rubber bullets and tear gas at them,
the anti-globalization foot soldiers created a siege-like atmosphere by
massing at several points of the perimeter fence erected to protect the 34
leaders at the Summit of the Americas.

Eye-stinging tear gas floated through the sealed-off zone in the historic
city and entered venue building vents, reminding the presidents and prime
ministers that violence marring major summits has become as predictable as
their closing statements.

Hardened by battles that derailed such events as the 1999 world trade talks
in Seattle, masked militants dressed in black fought into the early hours of
Saturday with helmeted police carrying shields.

They threw burning rolls of toilet paper inside the fence as battles flared
sporadically less than half a mile from where leaders, including U.S.
President George W., Bush were staying.

For about an hour on Friday, they breached the 10-foot-high chain link fence
embedded in concrete, forcing a 90-minute delay to the summit's opening
ceremony, where the key issue was the proposed creation of the world's
largest trade area.

Thousands of demonstrators, ranging from avowed peaceniks to hard-core
anarchists, have crowded into the French Canadian city to protest a proposed
pact to create by the end of 2005 a free trade area from Alaska to Patagonia.

In contrast with the protesters, who threw rocks, bottles and hockey pucks,
hippy-like demonstrators ignored the violence and, remaining at the
front-line, danced, played drums and gently batted a large beach-ball over
the heads of militants.

FREE TRADE IS FAIR TRADE?

Police said they arrested 28 people and five officers were injured, mainly in
clashes at the metal fence that snakes for 4 miles around summit venues and
has been dubbed the ''wall of shame'' by protesters.

The prospect of the free trade zone embracing 800 million people has
galvanized a generation of activists, as the Vietnam War and nuclear arms did
previously. They say it is designed to benefit big corporations, not Latin
America's poor.

While the Friday-to-Sunday summit will officially discuss trade for only a
scheduled 30 minutes, the protesters have shoved the issue to the top of the
popular agenda and prompted leaders to defend their proposal.

Bush, who has declared himself an aggressive free trader, will address the
summit's first working session on Saturday. After Friday's violence, which
upset his timetable for meetings with regional leaders, he said the
protesters were wrong.

''Trade not only helps spread prosperity, but trade helps spread freedom
...,'' he told reporters. ''We need trade.''

Summit host, Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, said in his opening
speech: ''I welcome those who have come to Quebec City to make known their
views on how best to advance the social and economic interest of our fellow
citizens. But violence and provocation is unacceptable in a democracy.''

===

Protesters Seize Day In Quebec

Tra

[CTRL] [radtimes] # 197

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

[radtimes] # 197

An informally produced compendium of vital irregularities.

"We're living in rad times!"
---
Send $$ to RadTimes!!  -->  (See ** at end.)
---
Contents:

--IMC FTAA SPECIAL NEWS BLAST | Saturday, April 21, 2001
--IAC- REPORT FROM QUEBEC CITY
--Quebec City, Day Two: Policing The People
--Quebec police defend tactics
--Police defend gas tactic
--Woman denies terrorist label
--Report on Cornwall action (Mohawk crossing)
--Arrests Now Total 450
--Police, demonstrators clash again at Quebec summit
--Police and protesters exchange tear gas as violence rocks Quebec City again
--68,000 March In Quebec
--Police fire water cannon, tear gas in Quebec City

===

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [IMC-News] [IMC FTAA SPECIAL NEWS BLAST | Saturday, April 21, 2001]
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 02:21:45 -0700

  IMC FTAA SPECIAL NEWS BLAST | Saturday, April 21, 2001
  +

  A compilation of breaking stories, photos, video, and audio from the
  Independent Media Center Network on Saturday, April 21, 2001 covering the
  Summit of the Americas -- FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) negotiation
  and solidarity actions worldwide.

  Stay tuned for more coverage.

  http://www.indymedia.org/ftaa


  +
  SUMMARY OF TODAY'S BREAKING NEWS

  Police continued to confront protesters with teargas and fire hoses on the
  streets of Quebec City, while 30,000 labor, community, and environmental
  activists linked arms for a march through downtown. From Vermont to Seattle
  to San Diego, protesters numbering in the tens of thousands engaged in
  solidarity actions along the borders.

  Today's activities have demonstrated a marked escalation of police
  enforcement measures, including the shutdown of an activist medical center
  in Quebec and reports of police harassment of Independent Media Center
  journalists. Relentless, media activists have continued to provide
  blow-by-blow coverage while under challenging, and sometimes threatening,
  conditions.

  Statements were released from Vermont and San Diego Independent Media
  Centers in solidarity with indigenous struggles around the world for freedom
  and democracy.


  +
  WHAT IS THE IMC NEWS BLAST?

  Once again, the Independent Media Centers (IMCs) are reporting live from the
  streets -- capturing and distributing some of the most exciting and
  historical media ever produced. Follow along as grassroots media-makers
  document and distribute across the Web live and near-live coverage of the
  FTAA protests in Quebec City and solidarity protests across the Americas.

  At least 12 out of 60 Independent Media Centers worldwide (listed at
  www.indymedia.org/ftaa) are posting raw and up-to-the-minute coverage of
  FTAA-related events throughout the April 20-22 weekend. We will be
  synthesizing the best of this content for you in a series of regular news
  blasts.


  +
  FOCUS ON FTAA

  30,000 to 50,000 demonstrators have already filled the streets of Quebec,
  and thousands more have staged solidarity demonstrations this weekend in
  what has become an uprising of opposition to closed and elite international
  trade negotiations. Demonstrators charge that these global trade agreements
  only serve the interests and privileges of capital, while the most basic
  rights and interests of citizens, consumers, workers and the environment are
  perpetually recast as "trade barriers."

  As anti-globalization protests continue to grow around the world, the use of
  police-state enforcement tactics has also stepped up, increasingly denying
  the basic democratic rights of those who speak out. Hundreds have been
  injured, many seriously, as the police use teargas, fire hoses, and
  brutality to silence the demonstrators. In Quebec, reports confirm that the
  police have shut down the demonstrators' medical center, and the Media
  Center has begun to offer space to treat injured activists. Injuries in
  Quebec include a 7 month old baby who is suffering from teargas exposure,
  and a demonstrator who was shot in the neck with a rubber bullet and remains
  in serious condition.

  Rather than thwarting the grassroots movement against corporate
  globalization, militant police repression has resulted in more widespread
  and defiant demonstrations. Inherent in this commitment is the role of the
  independent media activists, determined to bring truthful reports from the
  front lines.

  With hundreds of media activists currently in Quebec City and hundreds more
  participating around the 

[CTRL] Help Friends of Cannabis in Iceland Legalize!

[tribalzidane]

-Caveat Lector-

The first internet-vote, ever, on the question of legalization of
cannabis use in prohibiton-ridden Iceland, is running at:

http://www.strik.is/frettir/pressan/

You find the voting box at the right of the side, with the word kannabis
in the text, Já = Yes, nei = no. The prohibitionists are over for the
moment (about 42% Yes and 58% no)

Please help our friends of cannabis in Iceland! :-)

We really shouldn't think of ourselves as interfering in the politics of
other countries.  If they want globalization, let's give it to them.
Besides, with more countries softening the laws or legalizing marijuana,
more pressure will be put on the USA to change its ways.

Damaeus

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
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Om

[CTRL] PANAM 103

[lloyd]

-Caveat Lector-

..

A-albionic Research Weekly Up-Date of 4-22-2001
^^^

From: Ian Goddard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 5:25 AM
Subject: PANAM 103



Those with deep faith in authority claim that there can't
be large government conspiracies, since someone would come
forward to blow the whistle, which would topple the cover-
up and the whistleblower would become a rich & famous hero,
only emphasizing why they would want to come forward. Well,
as usual, faith in authority proves thicker than the facts.
Lester Coleman was a Defense Intelligence Agent who blew
the whistle on a U.S. government drug-running operation
that bypassed normal airport security, which may have
been the means by which the bomb was slipped on board.

After Coleman blew the whistle and filed an affidavit
in court, he was arrested and jailed for using false
identity papers, which occurred as part of his job as
a U.S. intelligence agent. In short, it's a myth that
a large government conspiracy will be toppled even when
someone comes forward to blow the whistle, and it's also
a myth that there are no risks involved in whistleblowing
or that the media would protect those who come forward and
make them rich & famous covering their amazing revelations.
In reality, a whistleblower can come forward, get arrested
and rot in jail while the media reports only the government
version of reality and most people go on thinking there is
no coverup, obviously, since someone would come forward...

Now another Flight-103 whistleblower has come forward with
testimony that exactly corroborates Coleman's testimony
(let's watch as the major media ignore or attack him):

=
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/newsi.hts?section=News&story_id=8212
=

  SUNDAY HERALD

  Issue 63, April 16th, 2000

  Baggage handler says American agents
  used Pan Am to smuggle drugs

  THE Pan Am baggage handler who
  was in charge of loading luggage onto
  Flight 103 has admitted for the first
  time that he knew US intelligence
  agencies used the airline to smuggle
  drugs and that their covert operation
  could have been penetrated by
  terrorists who planted the bomb on
  board Flight 103.

  The claims made on the eve of the
  Lockerbie trial by Roland O'Neill, from
  Frankfurt, could throw allegations that
  Libya was behind the bombing into
  complete disarray. It would also
  seriously undermine the position of the
  Scottish prosecution team which is
  preparing the criminal case against
  Abdel Basset Ali Mohamed al-Megrahi
  and Lamen Khalifa Fhimah. Their trial
  will begin at Camp Zeist on May 3.

  O'Neill's admissions back up long held
  suspicions that Palestinian terrorists
  operating in Germany were behind the
  bombing. The extremists, it is claimed,
  penetrated the US drugs operation
  and swapped a bag containing drugs
  on the flight bound for America for a
  bag carrying Semtex.

  On the eve of the Lockerbie trial,
  O'Neill invited the Sunday Herald
  yesterday to his Frankfurt home
  because he wanted to explain how he
  has been tormented for the last 12
  years by the fear that he could have
  unwittingly placed the explosives on
  board the aircraft.

  O'Neill was told for the first time
  yesterday by the Sunday Herald that he
  had failed four key questions during
  a lie detector test investigating his
  role in the Lockerbie bombing. The
  result of the test pointed towards
  O'Neill being the man who ordered that
  the bomb be placed on the plane.

  O'Neill insisted that he did not lie in
  the polygraph but he did admit that he
  knew the Drug Enforcement Agency -
  an arm of US intelligence - was using
  Frankfurt as a route to smuggle heroin
  into America as part of a secret plan
  to finance the freeing of US hostages
  in Beirut.

  O'Neill's polygraph showed that he
  lied when he said he did not know who
  ordered the switching of the cases
  and when he said he did not order the
  switching of the suitcases himself.
  O'Neill also allegedly lied in the test
  when he said he did not see the cases
  being switched and when he said he
  did not kno

Re: [CTRL] Earlier, Longer David Ferrie FBI Interview 11/25/63

[Linda Minor]

-Caveat Lector-

>From MAN ON THE GRASSY KNOLL, by John R. Craig and Philip A. Rogers:

"The Southwest Freeway was then under construction about a mile south of
Cherryhurst, and various establishments were springing up along its path.
One such place he found to his liking when it opened in 1959 was Winterland,
an ice-skating rink one block north of the new freeway and just to the west
of Shepherd Drive, at 2400 Norfolk, about a mile and a half from the Rogers
home."

The above excerpt refers to a man named Charles Rogers, a man who grew up in
Houston, worked for Shell Oil, flew his own plane, and allegedly worked for
the CIA.  He was last seen shortly before his parents, in whose house he
lived, were found butchered and stuffed in the refrigerator at 1815
Driscoll, a short distance from 2400 Norfolk.


http://www.wf.net/~biles/jfk/ramparts.txt
***
THE  PROBE REFOCUSED ON on Ferrie, and on December 15 he was brought  in
for further questioning.  Asked pertinent details of the whirlwind Texas
trip  in 1963, he begged lack of memory and referred his questioners  to
the  FBI.  What about the goose hunting?  "We did in fact get  to  where
the  geese  were  and there were thousands,"  he  recounted.   "But  you
couldn't approach them.  They were a wise bunch of birds."  Pressed  for
details  of  what took place at the ice rink, Ferrie  became  irritated.
"Ice skate -- what do you think?"  he snapped.

It  didn't  take  the DA's men long to poke  holes  in  Ferrie's  story.
Melvin  Coffey,  one of his companions on the 1963 Texas  trip,  deposed
that it was not a sudden inspiration:

 Q:  The trip was arranged before?
 A:  Yes.
 Q:  How long before?
 A:  A couple of days.

The probers also determined that no one had taken along any shotguns  on
the "goose-hunting" trip.

In  Houston, the ice skating alibi was similarly discredited.  In  1963,
the  FBI  had interviewed Chuck Rolland, proprietor  of  the  Winterland
Skating Rink.  "FERRIE contacted him by telephone November 22, 1963, and
asked  for  the  skating  schedule," a Bureau report,  one  of  the  few
unclassified  documents on Ferrie, reveals.  "Mr. FERRIE stated that  he
was  coming in from out of town and desired to do some skating while  in
Houston.  On November 23, 1963, between 3:30 and 5:30 PM, Mr. FERRIE and
two companions came to the rink and talked to Mr. ROLLAND."  The  report
continues that Ferrie and Rolland had a short general conversation,  and
that Ferrie remarked that "he and his companions would be in and out  of
the  skating rink during the weekend" (Commission Document  301).   When
Garrison's men recently talked to Rolland, they obtained pertinent facts
that the FBI had either missed or failed to report in 1963.  Rolland was
certain  that  none of the three men in Ferrie's party had  ice  skated;
Ferrie  had spent the entire two hours he was at the rink standing by  a
pay telephone -- and finally received a call.

At  Houston  International Airport, more information was  gleaned.   Air
service personnel seemed to recall that in 1963 Ferrie had access to  an
airplane based in Houston.  In this craft, the flight to Matamoros would
take little more than an hour.

Ferrie  had  patently lied about the purpose of the trip.   One  of  the
standard  tactics  of bank robbers is to escape from the  scene  of  the
crime  in  a "hot car" that cannot be traced to them, then switch  to  a
"cold car" of their own to complete the getaway.  Garrison considers  it
possible that Ferrie may have been the pilot of a second craft in a two-
stage escape of the Dallas assassins to south of the border, or may have
been  slated  to be a backup pilot in the evnet contingency  plans  were
activated.

Did  Ferrie know Oswald?  The pilot denied it, but the  evidence  mounts
that  he did.  For example, there is now in Garrison's hand  information
that when Oswald was arrested in Dallas police, he had in his possession
a CURRENT New Orleans library card issued to David Ferrie.   Reinforcing
the  validity  of  this information is a Secret Service  report  on  the
questioning  of Ferrie by that agency when he was in federal custody  in
1963.   During  an  otherwise  mild  interrogation,  Ferrie  was  asked,
strangely  enough,  in  he  lent his library card  to  Oswald.   No,  he
replied,  producing  a card from the New Orleans public library  in  the
name of Dr. David Ferrie.  That card had expired.

When  he realized he was a suspect in Garrison's current  investigation,
Ferrie seemed to deteriorate.  By the time he died on February 22, 1967,
he  was  a nervous wreck, subsisting on endless cigarettes and  cups  of
coffee  and enough tranquilizers to pacify an army.  He had  sought  out
the  press only days before his death, labeling the probe a "fraud"  and
complaining that he was the victim of a "witch hunt."  "I suppose he has
me pegged as a getaway pilot," he remarked bitterly.




http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison2.html
Well, naturally, this sp

[CTRL] Conspiracy theories On the grassy knoll

[Linda Minor]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/jfk/theory/knoll.html

***
The grassy knoll has even been linked to a grisly -- perhaps the most
grisly -- Houston murder. In 1965, the dismembered bodies of Fred and Edwina
Rogers were found in a refrigerator and freezer at their home at 1815
Driscoll in Houston. Their son, Charles, who was sought as a material
witness, was never found, and the case remains "uncleared."

In the 1992 book The Man on the Grassy Knoll, John R. Craig and Philip A.
Rogers linked Charles Rogers to the grassy knoll on Nov. 22, 1963. They also
identified him as an Oswald imposter who traveled to Mexico City the month
before the assassination and who took a used car for a test spin in Dallas
two weeks before the president's death. The authors claim sharpshooter
Rogers and Charles Harrelson, later convicted in the slaying of federal
judge John Wood (and the father of actor Woody Harrelson), fired
simultaneously at Kennedy from behind a picket fence. Fleeing to a boxcar,
they were arrested along with another man and detained for two hours. Among
conspiracy theorists, they are the famous "three tramps" whose release --
with no written record remaining of their arrest -- provides even more
fodder for speculation about a conspiracy in Kennedy's death.

In 1992, however, Dallas researcher Mary La Fontaine searched the Dallas
Police Department records and found the arrest records of three men who were
indeed tramps. They were identified as Harold Doyle, Gus Abrams, and John
Forrester Gedney. But authors Craig and Rogers raise doubts as to whether
these three men were the only ones taken in after the president's killing.

Whatever the case, the place the grassy knoll holds in the minds of anyone
who remembers or investigates the Kennedy assassination is not about to dim
soon. Visit Dallas, and you will find conspiracy buffs of all sorts hanging
out there, expounding their theories, selling their leaflets and newspapers,
pointing out the landmarks. You can even stand behind the picket fence and
get a view of what a killer -- maybe the killer -- saw on Nov. 22, 1963.

The grassy knoll is a place for thought.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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Om

[CTRL] Public Relations 101...

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

Online Journal - http://www.onlinejournal.com

04-23-01: Goebbels and today's mass mind control: Part One
How PR opinion-shapers turn the people against their own interests

By Carla Binion

April 23, 2001 -- Today's right-wing public relations spin has much in
common with the propaganda methods of Hitler's PR man, Joseph Goebbels.

Goebbels admired Edward Bernays, a self-proclaimed founder of the public
relations industry.  Bernays, a Vienna-born nephew of Sigmund Freud,
opened a New York office in 1919.  According to John Stauber and Sheldon
Rampton, ("Toxic Sludge is Good for You," Common Courage Press, 1995)
Bernays "pioneered the PR industry's use of psychology and other social
sciences to design its public persuasion campaigns."

Bernays wrote in "Propaganda," (New York: 1928, pp. 47-48) "If we
understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, it is now possible
to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their
knowing it."  Bernays referred to this scientific opinion-control as the
"engineering of consent."

In his autobiography, Bernays discusses a dinner at his home in 1933
where, "Karl von Weigand, foreign correspondent of the Hearst newspapers,
an old hand at interpreting Europe and just returned from Germany, was
telling us about Goebbels and his propaganda plans to consolidate Nazi
power.  Goebbels had shown Weigand his propaganda library, the best
Weigand had ever seen.  Goebbels, said Weigand, was using my book
'Crystallizing Public Opinion' as a basis for his destructive campaign
against the Jews of Germany.  This shocked me….Obviously the attack on the
Jews of Germany was no emotional outburst of the Nazis, but a deliberate,
planned campaign."

Today, corporations spend millions on public relations campaigns to
"crystallize public opinion," often in an effort to convince the public
that harmful things are actually good for us.  Sometimes the companies
start by bending the minds of our elected representatives.

This is the first part of a series.  In part one, we'll focus on the ways
in which corporations and their public relations mind-shapers worked to
destroy the Clinton health care plan.  Today forty-four million Americans,
about one in five people, have no health coverage, and many people cannot
afford needed pharmaceutical drugs. Most Americans probably wonder why,
despite repeatedly broken campaign promises, Congress never does anything
to improve the health care system.

As far back as November 8, 1999, a Newsweek article reported that half or
more of eligible heart attack patients are at greater risk because they
can't get needed beta blockers.  The article stated that two-thirds of
people surveyed say they are worried that health care is no longer
affordable.  Conditions haven't improved since then.

In 1993, the Clinton administration tried to do something about the high
price of prescription drugs, hinting at possible government-imposed price
controls.  The pharmaceutical industry then turned to the Beckel Cowan PR
firm to oppose the administration's designs on lowering the cost of
prescription drugs -- although, of course, the Clinton plan would have
benefited the public.

Stauber and Rampton write that Beckel Cowan "created an astroturf [or,
fake grassroots] organization called 'Rx Partners' and began deploying
state and local organizers to, in the words of a company brochure,
'generate and secure high-quality personal letters from influential
constituents to 35 targeted members of Congress.'"

At the same time, Beckel Cowan managed a mail and phone campaign "which
produced personal letters, telegrams and patch-through calls to the
targeted members' local and Washington, DC, offices."  The PR firm built a
network of supporters in 35 congressional districts and states.

Pharmaceutical companies weren't the only corporations to oppose an
improved health care system.  The insurance industry went to work to fight
against the Clinton health care plan, recruiting PR-man Robert Hoopes.
According to Stauber and Rampton, the 300,000 member Independent Insurance
Agents of America (IIAA) hired Hoopes as their "grassroots
coordinator/political education specialist."

Campaign & Elections magazine reported the IIAA activated "nearly 140,000
insurance agents during the health care debate, becoming what Hoopes
describes as a new breed of Washington lobbyists," wrote Stauber and
Rampton.  Hoopes said the lobbyists "have behind them an army of
independent insurance agents from each state, and members of Congress
understand what a lobbyist can do with the touch of a button to mobilize
those people for or against them."

In Campaign & Elections magazine ("Killing Health Care Reform,"
October/November 1994) Thomas Scarlett writes of the insurance companies
PR moves, "Through a combination of skillfully targeted media and
grassroots lobbying, these groups were able to change more minds than the
president could, despite the White House 'bully pulpit.' …N

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

Serves the same purpose as that Reptilian shit you hand out.

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Re: [CTRL] LAST thing I need is legal advise from UFO expert

[Steve Wingate]

-Caveat Lector-

On 22 Apr 01, at 0:05, Aleisha Saba wrote:

> Steve and June will make a nice pair - both probably are taller sitting
> down than standing up..

Saba you are really an interesting case.

Steve

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Re: [CTRL] LAST thing I need is legal advise from UFO expert

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

Well Steve at least I can prove my pedigree..

Come from a long line of Reptilians..

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Steve Wingate]

-Caveat Lector-

On 22 Apr 01, at 2:55, Aleisha Saba wrote:

> Serves the same purpose as that Reptilian shit you hand out.

And what purpose might that be?

Steve



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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

So it is okay to insult my ancestors but I know snake in grass when I
see one.

Why do you think JFK was murdered in Texas?

The Queen of England gave him a chunk of Runymead - but then of course
you would not know that this great Magna Carta was signed by a
Fitzgerald - one of my ancestors.

You sound like one of these Mormons who put Planagenet on list of
Descendents of Satan?

What are you an expert on reptiles?

Better take good look in mirror;  my ancestors walked out of the Garden
of Eden..so yours slithered out on his belly?

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[CTRL] US Missionaries Downed Over Peru Set to Fly Home

[Steve Wingate]

-Caveat Lector-

Sunday April 22 2:43 AM ET

US Missionaries Downed Over Peru Set to Fly Home

By Simon Gardner

LIMA, Peru (Reuters) - American missionaries shot down by a Peruvian Air
Force jet over the Amazon Jungle were due to fly home to the United States
early Sunday, taking with them the bodies of a mother and her baby killed
in the incident.

The United States said Saturday its own anti-drug surveillance plane
located the missionaries for the Peruvian jet, saying they were mistaken for
drug smugglers.

The White House called the incident a ``tragic accident,'' while a U.S.
embassy official in Lima said the United States had now suspended such
``interdiction'' surveillance flights.

Roni Bowers, 35, of the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania-based Association of
Baptists for World Evangelism, and her 7-month-old daughter Charity were
killed when the plane was riddled with bullets Friday and ditched into the
Amazon River some 120 miles (200 km) from the Colombian border.

Bowers' husband, Jim, and their son, Cory, escaped unhurt. The couple,
from Muskegon, Michigan, had worked in Peru since 1993.

The Cessna's pilot, Kevin Donaldson, also survived, but was hit by a bullet
in the leg, which his son said severed major arteries.

``I will talk later,'' was all Donaldson said to reporters in Spanish after being
transported along the Amazon on a stretcher in a wooden canoe en-route
to Lima.

It was not clear whether the two families would travel on a commercial,
private or U.S. government plane, or when. The U.S. Embassy and
Peruvian government, military and airport officials all refused to comment.

The U.S. admission that it helped the Peruvian jet came late Saturday, after
carefully avoiding admitting any role in the incident for much of the day.

``An unarmed U.S. government tracking aircraft was in the area and
provided location data for the subsequent intercept mission that was
conducted by the Peruvian Air Force,'' a State Department official said on
condition of anonymity.

Mistaken For Smugglers

``It was mistaken for an airplane carrying contraband drugs,'' the
spokesman added, saying that while unarmed U.S. aircraft pass location
information to the Peruvian Air Force, the Peruvians were ``responsible for
identifying aircraft and deciding on any action.''

Military activity and drug trafficking is rife in the jungle area where the
missionaries went down in northern Peru.

``The United States is certainly upset by the fact that two American citizens
lost their lives,'' President Bush (news - web sites) said at a Summit of the
Americas in Quebec City, Canada.

The State Department spokesman said the U.S. aircraft was in the area as
part of a long-standing U.S. program to support anti-drug efforts in Peru,
involving the State Department, CIA (news - web sites), Defense
Department, Drug Enforcement Agency and other agencies.

He did not say which U.S. agency operated the plane or its type. The
Washington Post, however, carried a report in its Sunday edition saying it
was a U.S. Customs Service Cessna Citation.

The Post also quoted an unnamed U.S. official as saying the U.S. military
had intercepted a communication between unknown parties calling for a
halt in the interception.

``We monitored a communication that said you should not intercept with
violence, to wait, hold off,'' the Post quoted the official as saying. Neither
State Department or Defense officials could confirm the report.

The Peruvian Air Force said in a communique Friday it opened fire on the
missionaries' Cessna 185 ``floatplane'' after it failed to heed warnings to
land, adding it had no published flight plan. But it refused to comment
further.

A Peruvian Defense Ministry spokesman had previously said the U.S. Drug
Enforcement Administration (DEA) intercepted the plane -- which was not
mentioned in the communique. The DEA could not be reached for
comment.

Donaldson's son, Benjamin, said Bowers -- who had reported seeing an
American plane in the air at the time of the incident -- had been questioned
by DEA agents.

``He said he was asked basic questions by the DEA, who then moved him
to a hotel room,'' he told Reuters by telephone from Iquitos before heading
to Lima to catch a connecting flight to the U.S.

When Reuters later called the Iquitos El Dorado hotel, staff said American
``police agents'' were with him, and would not allow anyone to talk to him.

Donaldson's wife, Bobbi, said Bowers had reported to Peru's air traffic
authorities by radio before the attack and believed his wife and daughter
had been killed by the same bullet.


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[CTRL] THE REPTILIAN CONNECTION By David Icke

[Steve Wingate]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Forwarded message follows ---
Date sent:  Sun, 22 Apr 2001 14:06:27 +1200
From:   Misty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:SNET: THE REPTILIAN CONNECTION By David Icke
To: Misty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, AltWritersFiles 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Armageddon or New Age? <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Send reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/temp/reptconn.html
Links

THE REPTILIAN CONNECTION
By David Icke


 If you are new to my work, the most bizarre information you will find on
this site is that concerning the reptilian connection.

I understand that. It is quite something to absorb from our conditioned
version of reality. But, then, that is the very point. If you want to keep
something from the people, give them a version of reality and possibility
that is so far from what is really going on that even if the truth comes to
light it will seem far too ludicrous and extreme for most people to believe
it.



Indeed, if you do your job well enough,
the people will laugh at the truth,
call it insane, and
ridicule anyone who promotes it.
To truly understand how all the information on this site fits together into
one coherent whole (which it does), you really need to read my book, The
Biggest Secret. But for those who have not yet done so, here is some basic
background. Please remember, however, that in the book there is an enormous
amount of information to support what I am about to say.

When I reached the point some years ago where I had put together the
structure through which a few people control the direction of the world (see
And The Truth Shall Set You Free), it was clear that this network of secret
societies and covert groups manipulating global politics, business, banking,
military, media, and so on, could not have been put together in a few years
or decades. It had to go back a very long time.

So I began to trace it back into what we call history. I did this in the
knowledge that, for some reason, bloodline and genetics were vitally
important to these manipulators, the Illuminati or Illuminated ones -
illuminated into knowledge that the public never see.

I followed the trail back comfortably to the time of the Crusades in the
Middle East, the 12th and 13th centuries, that kind of period, and on it
went far back into the ancient world and pre-history.

There, all over the planet, you find the ancient legends and accounts of
"gods" from another world who interbred with humanity to create a hybrid
network of bloodlines. The Old Testament, for example, talks about the "Sons
of God" who interbred with the daughters of men to create the hybrid race,
the Nefilim. Before it was translated into English, that passage read "the
sons of the gods", plural. But the Bible accounts are only one of so many
that describe the same theme.

The Sumerian clay tablets, found in what we now call Iraq in the middle of
the 19th century, tell a similar story. It is estimated they were buried
around 2,000 BC, but the stories they tell go back long before that. The
tablets talk of a race of "gods" from another world who brought advanced
knowledge to the planet and interbred with humans to create hybrid
bloodlines. These "gods" are called in the tablets, the "Anunnaki", which
apparently translates as "those who from heaven to earth came."

The ancient accounts tell us that these hybrid bloodlines, the fusion of the
genes of selected humans with those of the "gods", were put into the
positions of ruling royal power, especially in the ancient Near and Middle
East, in advanced cultures like Sumer, Babylon, and Egypt. But it happened
elsewhere, also, as you will find, for example, in the amazing information
provided on this site by the African Zulu shaman, Credo Mutwa, and in the
incredible Credo videos, Reptilian Agenda, parts one and two. He tells the
same story from the black African tradition that I have uncovered elsewhere
in the world.

The accounts of the "serpent race" in ancient cultures are simply endless
wherever you look and the serpent, reptilian, symbolism in relation to the
Anunnaki and other versions of these "gods" is equally widespread. We see
this in the Bible, for instance, with the serpent in the "Garden of Eden"- a
story which clearly comes from the Sumerian accounts, as does the story of
Moses in the bulrushes, a story told about a Sumerian king long before the
Bible. This is why I found it so astounding when I was told by Zecharia
Sitchin, the best-known translator of the Sumerian tablets, that there was
no evidence of a serpent race in the ancient world. Of course there is. He
also strongly advised me in relation to the serpent race…"Don't go there".
Why, when the evidence, ancient and modern, is so enormous?

>From these bloodlines has come the origin of the "divine right of kings",
the belief that only certain bloodlin

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Steve Wingate]

-Caveat Lector-

This certainly is a hate filled post. No facts, just gay-bashing innuendo.
What purpose does it serve?

Sorry if I have offended some here.

What would Jesus say?

Steve

On 22 Apr 01, at 1:45, Aleisha Saba wrote:

> So is is proper to send these oh so emotionally disturbed children to a
> lesbian for love and care?   Childen screaming in the night?   Normal
> thing to do is to stay with the child and tell them there is nothing to
> fear - but Rosie, oh such motherly advise she gives.



ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES
http://www.anomalous-images.com

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

This item re California is a wonder; the police are called to Rosie
O'Donnells - a child is screaming, on several occasions.

It seems to be a trend doesn't it for pedophiles like Michael Jackson
who romped and played with the children on the Democrat Platform and in
his bedroom according to several of the children - oh no charges filed,
and the matter dropped and his is making a comback for now is he more
acceptible.

And Rosie O'Donnell - how many children does she have now?   i remember
the day a Court took away three small children from this big rich queer
in our town, the alcoholic father had virtually sold them to him.the
had been molested and this guy went to the slammer, but ended up being
murdered later, by his homosexual lover.

Now Rosie is she mommy as she says or is she daddy figure?   This guy
who was murdered, seemed like the mama figure but the guy that murdered
him alas, just wanted he money with which he was lured into his den of
iniquity.

So tell me all these people who have had their children taken away - bet
they were all poor folk, right?   Will they give them to Rosie to play
mommy?

Or now that the Creep Michael Jackson is making a comeback will they
permit him to sleep with little boys again?

So is is proper to send these oh so emotionally disturbed children to a
lesbian for love and care?   Childen screaming in the night?   Normal
thing to do is to stay with the child and tell them there is nothing to
fear - but Rosie, oh such motherly advise she gives.

Keep thinking about the other kid who had her teeth knocked out and nose
bloodied and Rosie's terribly gashed hand and wrist..must have been
dreadful, now infected?

Looks more like it was cut ramming hand through a window than cut with
what was it she said, a price tag?

Oh these Hollywood people - with all Rosie's money you think she could
have hired someone to watch these children for her rather than complaint
because she could not sleep.

Abused Children sold as Sex Slaves?  Well that will be next as if the
sale of baby body parts for profit was not bad enough.

Rosie just keeps after those little kids?  But somehow all I remember is
her on Saturday night live - a Christmas Nativity Scene, and oh that pig
eyed old bat was so funny - she picked up the baby Jesus in his little
bed and put it over her head to throw it.now this is the Rosie I
remember.

She thought that was funny?   Nice example for the kiddies>

Now I lay me down to sleep;
I pray the lord my soul to keep;

If I should die before I wake;
Please call the cops, for heavens sake?

Suffer little children -
Abused Children sent to Rosie O'Donnell..you got to be kidding.

Saba


Mail message

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat,
Indio, California Demonstration; Juvenile Courts & Children Protective
Services
Dear Friend - if you live in California and can attend the below
demonstration on Monday April 30th at the Juvenile Court in Indio, CA,
please arrive at 7:30am and help send a message to the public about the
serious situation in Juvenile Courts and Childrens Protective Services
in California in general and Riverside County in particular.. Children
are being stolen from homes everywhere and held for months at a time on
what eventually are dismissed charges of child abuse. The Juvenile
Courts are virtual STAR CHAMBERS, Draconian rooms of total summary
injustice that steamroll the rights of children, parents AND attorneys.
The horror stories are endless. Juvenile Court judges and the CPS and
County Counsel attorne. Come join us and help kick off the petition
drives and send a message to the politicians. Your help is dearly
needed. Bring a stick and poster board and a black felt pen for
messages.   Call 760/251-3572 for further information
=
Press/Media Release
--
Please take notice that on Monday April 30th in the City of Indio
California, Friends of Families, Parents and Children will hold a
peaceful Ralley, Demonstration and Protest at the Indio Juvenile Court
Building, @ 46-671 Oasis St., Indio, California, from 8am to 10am.
Interested citizens who value protection of children and families are
urged to participate in this event
--
The purpose of this peaceful ralley, demonstration and protest is to
bring to the attention of the public badly needed changes in the
California State Code sections that govern how Children’s
Protective Services and the Juvenile Courts Operate. Friends of
Families, Parents and Children will make available at this
demonstration, copies of petition drives for gathering signatures to
present to the California State Legislature and also to place an
initiative on the next state ballot for changes in the applicable code
sections. Other items made available at this event are copies of the
Chicago Tribune article released two weeks ago about an important
Federal Court ruling handed down in the State of Illinois which found

[CTRL] LAST thing I need is legal advise from UFO expert

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

First of all, Kris - Kris knows my name, my home address, and telephone
number for I ordered his book which I received and was charged to a
credit card.I am in Ohio.

Amelia, lives in Alabama - and Kris knows I am not Amelia for I had
occasion to speak to him - called early in am not thinking about the
time element.

Third as for you Steve Windbag Wingate - when I want legal advice, I
will consult an attorney - My former attorney who died,  was the best -
headed up the FBI in Detroit for 25 years.

And when I want expert advice on UFO's I will consult Gordon Novel or
Nexus' Duncan, whom I believe to be an honorable man who masters the
Kings English and is very professional.

Steve and June will make a nice pair - both probably are taller sitting
down than standing up..

Now let these great experts do a little research on their own.

Saba

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Special Thanks and Appreciation

[Amelia]

-Caveat Lector-

Substantiate that I am Aleisha.  What makes you think you
are entitled to lie about this?  Others I can remember you
said were Aleisha are c., Samantha, and birds recently.  It
is odd that you think posting under different names would
give such a thrill.
Amelia
- Original Message -
From: "YnrChyldzWyld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Special Thanks and Appreciation


-Caveat Lector-


>And June, as for the life-time banning of Aleisha~~you have
>made that rather impractical by accusing half the active
>list of actually BEING Aleisha at one time or another.  I
>suppose you are including all of us, myself most certainly

Not half the list, but YOU, most certainly



>Perhaps there are those among us who think your
>unwarranted attacks and unsubstantiated claims should
result
>in your own banning.

Provide ONE case where an 'attack' was unwarranted, or a
claim I made was
'unsubstantiated'...

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Special Thanks and Appreciation

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

by the way the book re Barry Seal is excellent; my old friend Gordon
Novel is mentioned several times and believe me, this man does not talk
to just anybody.

He is the one man alive I know who is not only a patriot but knows the
FBI and BATF is more corrupt than this so called Mafia thing.

He was an investigator at Waco - and note the aricle Kris put out re
Oswald and Ferrie - Gordon Novel worked for Bannister and you won't see
mention of him in Oliver Stone's fabrication of what is the truth re JFK
murder...

Garrison tried to extradite Novel from Columbus during his investigation
- Gordon Novel knew that Garrison was the last man to see Ferrie alive -
Govenor James Rhodes wouldl not extradite Gordon Novel..

So why did Oliver Stone exclude the most important person in this
conspiracy who knows the truth about that bunch?   Well Garrison was
personal friend to Marcelelos and Meyer Lansky and in with the mob..

Stone used old crap we had over 30 years ago taken from Assassination
Committee.old hat stuff.

Strange then isn't it - the Jolly Green Giant ended up in bed with Larry
Flynt?

So Kris did a miracle in getting Novel to talk to them.he is indeed
very particular from what I understand.

As he once said when he escaped the net of long arm of law to flee to
Columbus with Garrison panting after him - how did you get away Mr.
Novel - Mr. Novel said, he wore a disguise - he dressed like a monk,
wore English "bowler", and smoked a big cigar...Long Live the
Evergreen Pine.

Saba

Wonderful book Kris; enjoyed every page and all on this list should read
it - sometimes it is reading between few lines, but that Seal - what a
way to end a life.

Picture on front still looks like Last Supperonly thing missing is
the bag.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Greenies want you Dead - STUPIDITY

[lassey]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:09:49 -0700 Steve Wingate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On 21 Apr 01, at 9:44, ArkAngel wrote:
>
> > If you two have a personal issue with each other, why put it on
> the list,
> > that is not fair to us who have to go through all this and then
> see a scrap
> > like this.  There are more important things to read you know.
>
> Ivan,
>
> The reason I responded to Duncan's flames on this list is because I
> believe
> it is important to publicly confront those who constantly exhibit
> bad
> behavior. It is not ok in my opinion to just let it drop when it
> (the flames)
> occur again and again. Apparently the moderator does not care or
> perhaps
> does not have the time to do this, that is their perogative. But it
> seems the
> least we can expect on a list is at leawst a minimum level of
> netiquite.
>
> I just returned from camping in the Grand Canyon and it is amazing
> how a
> trip like that makes you more aware of the extreme degree that
> humans
> abuse and attack one another needlessly. Things are bad enough
> without
> these completely unnecessary and hateful attacks.
>
> Steve
>
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
> propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths,
> mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different
> groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
> thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts,
> and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>

> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives
> of
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>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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>

> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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Om

[CTRL] On Making Reality Conform to Preconceptions

[lloyd]

-Caveat Lector-

..

>From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]
Note:  We store 100's of related "New Paradigms Posts" at:
http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html

From: "M.A. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: On Making Reality Conform to Preconceptions
Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:46 PM

~~for educational purposes only~~
[Title 17 U.S.C. section 107]

The Old Cause
by Joseph R. Stromberg

China Syndrome
ON MAKING REALITY CONFORM TO PRECONCEPTIONS

The whole history of US-Chinese relations could be written as a history
of the delusions held by US policy makers and business interests about
China. What China actually was, or is, entered into matters very little,
aside from occasional US attempts at meddling and influencing the
course of events in China. Most of the latter ended in disarray and
confusion.

Sharp-eyed Yankee traders developed an interest in the fabled
China market already in the 18th century, even before we won
our independence from Britain. The notion of the China market
grew and grew throughout the 19th century. Missionaries did
a rough head count of the zillions upon zillions of Chinese and
saw enough potential converts to get all the missionaries into
heaven, bar none. Merchants considered that if every Chinaman
bought a pair of shoes, that would indeed be a lot of shoes.

Now, I am not here to make fun of missionaries and merchants.
If they wish to pay for their own efforts and take their own
chances, who could complain? It’s true that the missionaries
were instrumental in creating a number of sentimental illusions
about China and the Chinese which were of value, later, to
other people; that may be a problem of sorts. It is hard, however,
to separate this case from the common American habit of
fostering illusions about other countries, which – up against reality
– shatter, leaving policy makers and public intellectuals feeling
jilted and angry. It might have been better not to have had the
illusions in the first place. None of this mattered until politicians
and professors got into the act.

AN ASIATIC MODE OF PRODUCTION?

Coming down through the same 19th century, the Chinese
empire had its own problems. The clunky, Confucianist
bureaucratic regime ran up against population pressures
and foreign devils. The Opium War comes to mind, in
which Britain demanded that China say yes to drugs – that
was a simpler time – and acquired Hong Kong in the
unequal contest.

Internal strains on the regime somehow brought forth,
or allowed, at mid-century the T’ai-p’ing Rebellion in which
millions (six to twenty) of Chinese died. This, at a time
when we were impressed with the figure of 620,000
deaths (as well we might be) in the Late Unpleasantness
of 1861-1865. Covert aid from Western powers helped
sustain the imperial state. After all, the Western imperialists
needed some kind of regime in China to collaborate with
them, even if they did not wish it to be powerful enough
to resist their encroachments in the name of trade and
Christianity.

History rocks along in funny paths. In the course of sending
aid to the Chinese regime, French forces stopped off in
Indo-China (1858) long enough to lay the groundwork for their
very helpful colonial presence there. This was so helpful that
a lot of Americans of my generation were killed or maimed
dealing with some of the results. Not that we actually had to
be there, but once someone else has set up a hopeless mess,
how could we ask the United States not to make things worse?
C’est rire.

Anyway, although the Chinese imperial system survived
the shock of the T’ai-p’ing rebellion, China came under
increasing Western pressure. The Germans, the Brits, the
French, the Russians, and others could count, too, and
they all wanted to sell that same pair of shoes to every
Chinaman. They too had missionaries. The whole thing
became very competitive in a national-mercantilist and
imperialist sort of way.

In short order, Western powers helped themselves to exclusive
zones of trade and demanded extraterritorial status for their
nationals operating in China (the famous ‘Unequal Treaties’).
Reacting to Western intrusion, the Japanese ruling elite
repackaged and modernized the Japanese state, rose to
regional prominence, and began casting its eyes in the
direction of China as well. The famous Chinese "paranoia"
about which we have heard so much lately may have
something to do with this awkward period in Chinese
history.

ENTER THE AMERICANS

The uncompromising German laissez faire liberal Eugen
Richter said of the Weltpolitik (world policy) of Wilhelm II
that it really meant "that one wishes to be present everywhere,
where something has gone wrong." This could well be the motto
of US foreign policy since 1898. I won’t rehearse things said
here before, except to say that important figures in the US
northeastern political, economic, and intellectual elite convinced
themselv

Re: [CTRL] Dead Chinese fighter pilot footage

[c.]

-Caveat Lector-

hey bb.
i respect your patriotism and all but... well, no that isn't true. i think
nationalism is dangerous and the old fashioned way of thinking about "what
is mine, what is theirs?"
i could easily have been writing about china, UK or USA or any country. they
all suck.
i do not hate you personally- i hate your government and your governments
actions, is it so difficult to see the difference? and if i swear and make
fun of stuff such as the yellow ribbons then tough titty- don't be so damned
pompous and precious- as i said in a previous posting- no-one, not even
americans could stretch reality enough to present this incident as being
akin to, say, the iranian hostage situation in 1980. no-one thought for a
minute that the present day servicemen would not be coming home. the rest of
the world had a laugh at the latest example of american imperialist
arrogance etc etc...

your prose style in this mail is such that i can almost here your voice
rising and ending in a long shriek toward the end. i wuld begin responding
to much of what you say below but it seems wasted when i read comments such
as "on Sunday morning yet" ... which is mindboggling really. those nasty
nips really were the most evil ungodly bunch to commit such an atrocity on
the sabbath, uh? in fact it was them attacking on the lord's day that made
it an atrocity i presume?




- Original Message -
From: BB
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Dead Chinese fighter pilot footage



"c." wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
i thought there was more humour in you than there apparently is bb and it
seems i didn't make the satire or sarcasm bold enough for you to see, my
mistake.
   Sorry, I missed it.
But it's a little difficult to see humour when you attack me,
my country, my government, my military personnel, and
curse us and our endeavors.
However, maybe there IS more humour in me than
you think  --  didn't you read my suggestion that you relax
and enjoy a hamburger?   Hmmmn??
Additional comments interspersed below.
- Original Message -
From: "BB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Dead Chinese fighter pilot footage
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> No, I will agree to no such absurd, preposterous thing.
> It is not negligent to land one's aircraft to save 24 lives,
> it is only common sense, and international law provides for
> such emergencies.  I keep making this point, you keep not
> reading.
international law is all well and fine- but my point remains- they shuld
have sealanded the craft and bailed to stop it gettig into chinese hands and
to avoid the resulting diplomatic coup that china has since enjoyed.
Well, I guess that's second guessing the pilot, he had
a decision to make.  Ditching at sea is always dicey, usually
fatal.  A large plane rarely comes to rest, but flips tail over
nose, or catches one wing with resulting cartwheels and
breakup  --  usually fatalities.
I cannot detect ANY diplomatic coup that China has enjoyed-
They are in jeopardy of losing much, and now are doing a
diplomatic dance about returning our captured (under the
force of arms), stolen, rifled, pilfered aircraft.

>
> You  do not "effectively" give your military aircraft to an enemy
> simply because you were forced to land there in order to save your
> life,
they should have bailed.
>especially since the aircraft was rendered inoperable
how do you make that out?  I make that out because one prop
was chewed, the engine shut down, they lost 5-8000 feet of
altitude with the pilot using all his strength to hold the
aircraft straight because of most of the remaining torque being
applied to the right wing,  AND  finally, because of your own
words, describing the herosim of the instigator of the incident,
noted below with **, which says   "he is a national hero because
he **brough down an aircraft that was spying on his mother country"
AND
"for knocking out an american aircraft"

Therefore, I conclude the plane was rendered inoperable
because you admit that it was "brought down" and
"knocked out."

by the
> reckless joy ridings of a hot-shot jet jockey showing off.
no- not showing off- if you read the article it explained that it is a
common practice to buzz spyplanes,
It really does not matter whether or not it is common
practice, his foolish and irresponsible behavior resulted
in his death, and any reasonable person would conclude that
his low speed, all but falling out of the sky proximity to the
large aircraft, his combination of Italian, Hawaiian and Chinese
hand gestures to the US crew, and the holding up of the sign
with his email address on it for the crew to read, all while
"flying" one-handed was in fact showing off.

during the cold war it was done on both
sides. neither side actually fire on each other, so stay within int. law.
what would america do if chinese spyplanes were of

[CTRL] So Duncan What About the German Scientist in KGB

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

This is one of the most interesting items I have ever read; pulled it up
off Steve Wingates Web Site - oh how he treasures the work of Nexus?

So - what about the Nazi Scientists who went to Russia?  Each knowing
the secrets of the others, from secrets in masonry to intelligence work
- 7 Men at Spandau used so many codes from bird codes to bible calendar
code (which the Russian Guard was onto).

So we were not always at war with Germany - and Adolph Hitler aka
Heidler aka Schicklgrubber aka Hister - my, my so many names maybe he
was Austiran Jew as OSS Wild Bill Donovan and Winston Churchill believed
him to be?   For those were not Nordic Gods - there were a regular EU?

So Duncan - this element today is attempting to destroy the old line and
replace it with NWO/UN Crap - maybe this did start with murder of two
different Rockefellers - this article notes that CIA was at Western
Electric - this I know to be true here in Columbus area but there were
Union men who were going to blow up railroad tracks there, etc., and
later got busted for stealing money ffrom their members - one went to
jail..

Anyway I reproduce this very informative article - taken from Steve
Wingates Web Site which in all fairness is a beautiful site to behold.

Saba

HOME PAGE
|
SUBS INFO
|
BACK ISSUES
|
PRODUCTS LIST
|
ORDER FORM
Mind Control Slavery and the New World Order
According to this extremely disturbing report, Monarch Program
mind-control survivors claim to have been used as high-tech slaves by
certain intelligence agencies and top-ranking politicians.
Extracted from Nexus Magazine, Volume 6, Number 2 (February-March 1999).
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Telephone: +61 (0)7 5442 9280; Fax: +61 (0)7 5442 9381
>From our web page at: www.nexusmagazine.com
by Uri Dowbenko © 1998
New Improved Entertainment Corp.
PO Box 43
Pray, Montana 59065, USA
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
High-tech slavery is alive and well on planet Earth. Ever since World
War II when the United States Government's Project Paperclip sponsored
the resettlement of about 2,000 high-level Nazis in the United States,
the technology of mind-control programming has advanced rapidly.
"The Germans under the Nazi government began to do serious scientific
research into trauma-based mind control," write Fritz Springmeier and
Cisco Wheeler in their book, The Illuminati Formula used to create an
Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave. "Under the auspices of the
Kaiser Wilhelm Medical Institute in Berlin, Josef Mengele conducted
mind-control research on thousands of twins and thousands of other
hapless victims."
Mengele, known as "the Angel of Death", was one of the approximately 900
military scientists and medical researchers secretly exfiltrated into
the United States, where he continued his 'research' and trained others
in the black arts of mind control. This work in behaviour manipulation
was later incorporated into the CIA's projects Bluebird and Artichoke
which, in 1953, became the notorious MKULTRA. The CIA claims that these
programs were discontinued, but there is no credible evidence that "The
Search for the Manchurian Candidate" (the title of the definitive book
by John Marks) ever ceased.
In fact, Captain John McCarthy, US Army Special Forces (Ret.), who ran
CIA assassination teams out of Saigon during the Vietnam War, told his
friend, LAPD whistleblower Mike Ruppert, that "MKULTRA is a CIA acronym
that officially stands for 'Manufacturing Killers Utilizing Lethal
Tradecraft Requiring Assassinations'". Thus the CIA's official obsession
with producing programmed killers through the MKULTRA contained more
than 149 sub-programs in fields ranging from biology, pharmacology,
psychology to laser physics and ESP.
More recently, new evidence points to the continuous use of so-called
trauma-based programming techniques to accomplish the same goal. This
includes the deliberate induction of Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD)
in involuntary human subjects - in essence, human guinea pigs.
MPD has been reclassified by the American Psychiatric Association as
Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). The psychiatrists' bible, the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV, p. 487), characterises it by:
A. The presence of two or more distinct personality states;
B. At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently
take control of the person's behaviour;
C. Inability to recall important personal information that is too
extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness;
D. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a
substance or a general medical condition.
No matter what name is assigned to the problem, however, to create this
condition by conscious intent is an atrocity so depraved that
trauma-based mind-control programming remains the de facto Secret
Holocaust of the 20th century. Known as the Monarch Project, it has been
verified and corroborated by numerous survivors like Cathy O'Brien,
au

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[c.]

-Caveat Lector-

you claim ancestory from nearly every flipping family line going aleisha.
when are you going to post a family tree? and if it is true then i guess
your ancestors must have put it about a bit to have their seed so widely
spread. you may have walked from the garden of eden but i grew big fuckoff
batwings and flew to the red sea to live it up with demons. i left you and
eve to lie on your backs in line.
yours, lilly


- Original Message -
From: "Aleisha Saba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and
homosexuals?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> So it is okay to insult my ancestors but I know snake in grass when I
> see one.
>
> Why do you think JFK was murdered in Texas?
>
> The Queen of England gave him a chunk of Runymead - but then of course
> you would not know that this great Magna Carta was signed by a
> Fitzgerald - one of my ancestors.
>
> You sound like one of these Mormons who put Planagenet on list of
> Descendents of Satan?
>
> What are you an expert on reptiles?
>
> Better take good look in mirror;  my ancestors walked out of the Garden
> of Eden..so yours slithered out on his belly?
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

Dear c.

Listen asshole - I already put my pedigree on list long ago - and I have
official documents and a family tree that goes back to what I said it
did.

And I do not answer to a limey of questionable extraction.

you are no scotsman.

You know nothing of family trees but in our line here you find the
Warfields, Pierponts. Hammonds, DAVIS, Griffith, Plantagenet,
Fitzgerald, Welsh, Welch, and through the women this line is traced
directly to Queen Victoria on my mothers side.

In fact once 60 minutes gave me considerable time re this claim; for as
a joke I wrote I descended from Jack the RipperMorley Sater or
whatever his name was, his last words were "mere woman Mrs... - for
I had told him they would not let me in the Masons because I was a mere
woman - but asshole - I sent him documentation of my family tree with
items sealed with royal crown.

As a result a woman named Eilers was writing a book called of all
things, The 600 about descendents of Victoria - she wanted to know if I
was born on wrong side of blanket.

No bastards in my line, but she hangs onto Royals like Larry King hangs
onto Presidents - makes them seemimportant.

It was reported in New York newspaper however, that this old bat had to
change the name of her book or chapter to the
601.

So if yout my pedigree call 60 Minutes and pull up in archive, asshole.

Now do not write me anymore, do not use my name anymore, for I think you
are a stupid klutz.

Peasant.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[c.]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Aleisha Saba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and
homosexuals?



> As a result a woman named Eilers was writing a book called of all
> things, The 600 about descendents of Victoria - she wanted to know if I
> was born on wrong side of blanket.
>

wrong side of the trailer more like.

post your tree, 60 minutes never seem to return my call...

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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[CTRL] Red Chinese Get Big Bucks In Secret Hostage Deal

[lloyd]

-Caveat Lector-

..

>From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]
Note:  We store 100's of related "New Paradigms Posts" at:
http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html

From: "Anonymous Coredump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Red Chinese Get Big Bucks In Secret Hostage Deal
Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 10:09 PM

http://www.sightings.com/general9/red.htm

The Red Chinese are to get massive funds and terms in the secret deals brokered by 
Federal Reserve Commissar Alan Greenspan. The agreements, European intelligence 
sources contend, would never, if soon fully revealed, get the approval of top honchos 
of both political parties in the U.S. Congress.


The protocols, forms of clandestine U.S. Treaties, are highly favorable to mainland 
China and extremely adverse to the American White House occupied by what European and 
non-European sources aver is a highly tainted, and conflict-of-interest presidency. 
The secret deals, ending the ordeal of China holding 24 U.S. spy-plane airpeople 
hostages on an island offshore the China mainland, were hammered out with the help, 
among others of the following, many of whom have large business interests in Red China:


(1)The deals were orchestrated (maybe the "accident" also "created"?) by George 
Herbert Walker Bush, in supervising his son, George W. Bush. The Elder Bush has a long 
history in strange events. With the American CIA since at least 1959, he was part of 
the cover up of the plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy in 1963, as implicit 
in an FBI document that has surfaced. In 1976, for less than a year, he was Director 
of Central Intelligence, heading up the American spy community. In the late 1970s, 
before the U.S. began official diplomatic relations with Red China, the Elder Bush was 
U.S. envoy to Beijing, traveling and living, not with his wife but his mistress. The 
Elder Bush's brother, uncle of George W., Prescott Bush, Jr., has been a 
behind-the-scenes expert as a reputed money laundry expert, aiding criminally-inclined 
members of the Red Chinese Military and the Te-Wu, the Red Chinese Secret Police, in 
penetrating foreign currency and commodity markets, such as on th!
 e Chicago Board of Trade and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. [Visit our website 
stories about the Red Chinese Secret Police operating on U.S. soil, arranging, for 
example, the shipments of human body parts harvested from Chinese dissidents condemned 
to death, as the body organs are ordered by the Rockefeller hospitals at the 
University of Chicago, major center of transplants.]


In October, 1980, the Elder Bush, briefly visiting a Paris suburb, arranged a 
treasonous deal to supply weapons to Iran via Israel. In exchange, Iran agreed to keep 
holding 52 U.S. hostages to aid the Reagan/Bush ticket to win the 1980 Presidential 
election by showing Jimmy Carter, running for re-election, as a wimp not able to get 
the hostage release. The affair was called "The October Surprise". The hostages were 
released just at the moment in January, 1981, when Reagan/Bush were successfully 
inaugurated, as President and Vice President.


(2) Another participant of the U.S.-China hostage pacts, has been U.S. Secretary of 
State, General Colin Powell along with his sidekick, Richard Armitage, Deputy 
Secretary of State. The foreign press, unlike the captive U.S. mass media, have not 
hesitated in the past to point out that a Burmese General, in an apparently authentic 
videoed interview. contended from first-hand knowledge that three top-level Americans 
have been his worldwide dope trafficking partners in shipments from the "Golden 
Triangle", Southeast Asia including Southwest China. In fact, they built him a highway 
through the jungle to facilitate the shipments, he asserts. Identified by this Asian 
dope kingpin as his long-time business partners reportedly have been George Herbert 
Walker Bush, General Colin Powell [who during the Viet Nam War covered up the Mai Li 
mass civilian murder incident], and Powell's ever-present crony Richard Armitage.


(3) Reportedly aiding in the hostage deals translations and terms has been the Younger 
Bush Administration's Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao, wife of Senator Mitch 
McConnell (R., Ky.) a husband and wife team that reportedly fronts for the Beijing 
government in Washington. Chao has numerous business links with the Red Chinese Secret 
Police. For example, she has held a seat on the board of Protective Life Corp., which 
owns 50 per cent of CRC Protective Life Insurance, as shown on Senate 
financial-disclosure documents. [Lippo Group, tied to Bill and Hillary Clinton as well 
as George W. Bush, owned First National Bank of Mena, Arkansas, arranging to launder 
hundreds of millions of dollars, proceeds of the American CIA dope shipments through 
the nearby airport at Mena.] The other half of the Hong Kong-located unit is owned by 
Lippo jointly w

Re: [CTRL] So Duncan What About the German Scientist in KGB

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

>This is one of the most interesting items I have ever read; pulled it up
>off Steve Wingates Web Site - oh how he treasures the work of Nexus?
>
>So - what about the Nazi Scientists who went to Russia?  Each knowing
>the secrets of the others, from secrets in masonry to intelligence work
>- 7 Men at Spandau used so many codes from bird codes to bible calendar
>code (which the Russian Guard was onto).
>
>So we were not always at war with Germany - and Adolph Hitler aka
>Heidler aka Schicklgrubber aka Hister - my, my so many names maybe he
>was Austiran Jew as OSS Wild Bill Donovan and Winston Churchill believed
>him to be?   For those were not Nordic Gods - there were a regular EU?
>
>So Duncan - this element today is attempting to destroy the old line and
>replace it with NWO/UN Crap - maybe this did start with murder of two
>different Rockefellers - this article notes that CIA was at Western
>Electric - this I know to be true here in Columbus area but there were
>Union men who were going to blow up railroad tracks there, etc., and
>later got busted for stealing money ffrom their members - one went to
>jail..
>
>Anyway I reproduce this very informative article - taken from Steve
>Wingates Web Site which in all fairness is a beautiful site to behold.
>
>Saba

Dear Saba,

I haven't a clue what you are talking about, except you have posted an
article we published a couple of years ago in NEXUS Magazine.  I cannot
see how this is related to anything I have posted in response to that
idiot who thinks all greenies want people dead.

I do not even see how it relates to Steve Wingate's personal/public
problems with myself.  I am sure even Steve agrees with many things in
NEXUS itself, it is just that he has a personality issue with me.

Maybe you can be clearer as to your point, after all, I am only an
Australian.

:)

regards

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] [Spy News] U.S. Identified Baptists' Plane as Drug Carrier (fwd)

[Yardbird]

-Caveat Lector-

April 22, 2001
U.S. Identified Baptists' Plane as Drug Carrier
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/22/world/22PLAN.html


By IRVIN MOLOTSKY

WASHINGTON, April 21 - The airplane carrying American missionaries that was
shot down on Friday in Peru had been mistakenly identified as a carrier of
contraband drugs, a State Department official said tonight.

The official declined to say whether the mistake was made by a United States
aircraft, but there was American surveillance plane in the area that was
communicating with Peruvian military aircraft.

A missionary and her infant daughter were killed when the plane, a Cessna
185, was downed by fire from a Peruvian Air Force fighter jet.

The United States surveillance flights were suspended pending an
investigation of the incident.

"An unarmed U.S. government tracking aircraft was in the area and provided
location data for the subsequent intercept mission that was conducted by the
Peruvian Air Force," the State Department official said.

The United States and Peru have had a long-standing project in which
American spotters inform Peruvian interceptors when they spot what they
think are drug runners.

Those killed in the downing of the American plane were Veronica Bowers, 35,
a missionary with the Association of Baptists for World Evangelism, and her
daughter, Charity, 7 months old.

The Rev. E. C. Haskell, a spokesman for the association, which is based in
Morgantown, Pa., said that the missionaries' pilot, Kevin Donaldson, was
wounded.

Ms. Bowers's husband, Jim, 37, and their son, Cory, 6, were also on the
plane and were not wounded, Mr. Haskell said.

The United States Customs Service flies surveillance planes into what it
calls the "source zone" for drugs, but a spokesman, Dennis Murphy, said
today that his agency's planes were not involved in tracking the
missionaries' plane on Friday. A Customs Service radar plane based in the
Caribbean was flying in Colombia on Friday, but it was far north of the path
taken by the Cessna 185 and did not observe it, Mr. Murphy said.

The Customs Service has a P-3, a four-engine turboprop, the same kind of
plane that the Navy uses to track enemy submarines, based in the Caribbean.

Normal practice for the Customs Service is that once a radar plane locates a
suspicious plane in flight, it radios for a Citation, a smaller plane that
can fly at low speeds, to observe the target visually.

Both the radar plane and the observation plane carry a representative from
the host country, said Mr. Murphy, who communicates directly with the air
force of the country involved.

Recently, he said, the observation plane saw a small plane land on a dirt
strip, and saw bales being loaded unto mules; ground forces from the host
country arrived in time to intercept the drugs, he said.

The State Department official said tonight: "We are very saddened by this
tragic accident and extend our sympathy and condolences to the family, their
friends and relatives."

The official said that the downed plane was flying in northern Peru near the
Colombia border, flying from Leticia, Colombia, toward Iquitos, Peru.
Colombia has long been a major source of cocaine and other drugs reaching
the United States, prompting the United States surveillance flights in the
region.

"Pending a thorough investigation and review by Peruvian and U.S. officials
of how this tragic incident took place, the provision of location data by
the U.S. and the conduct of intradiction flights have been suspended," the
State Department official said.

The official said: "For a number of years, the United States has provided
assistance to Peru in detecting and monitoring suspect aircraft passing
through designated airspace in an effort to stem the flow of illegal drugs.
This is a United States government program in which a number of U.S.
agencies are involved, including the State Department, the Central
Intelligence Agency, the Department of Defense, the Drug Enforcement
Administration and others.

"Peruvian authorities are responsible for identifying the aircraft and
deciding on any action. We are working closely with Peruvian authorities to
determine exactly how this tragic incident took place."

Earlier today, before the State Department had issued its statement, at the
gathering of Western Hemisphere nations in Quebec, President Bush said: "The
United States is certainly upset by the fact that two citizens lost their
lives. I will wait to see all the facts before I reach any conclusions about
blame."



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[CTRL] Fw: QUEBEC/Anti-FTAA April 21—Report from IAC contingent—‘Four questions about today’s action’

[Mrs. Jela Jovanovic]

 
- Original Message - 
From: John Catalinotto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 5:02 AM
Subject: QUEBEC/Anti-FTAA April 21—Report from IAC 
contingent—‘Four questions about today’s 
action’
> Pasted and attached> > QUEBEC/Anti-FTAA April 
21—Report from IAC> contingent—‘Four 
questions about today’s> action’> > We 
spoke with four members of the International Action> Center contingent to 
the anti-FTAA demonstration in Quebec> City, Quebec, on the evening of 
April 21, after they had> spent the day first marching with tens of 
thousands of> workers and then with smaller groups of thousands of 
mostly> youthful demonstrators at the wall of wire and concrete 
set> up around the FTAA meeting place and reinforced with 6,000> 
cops. > > Today’s action was distinguished by a mass 
labor march> parallel with “break-off” marches of 
people who> were determined to challenge the government’s 
attempt> to wall off the FTAA meeting. Indymedia and some of the 
wire> services reported more police use of rubber bullets, water> 
cannon and heavy tear-gas use, with more injuries to> demonstrators. One 
lost a finger, another was shot in the> neck with a 3.5-inch rubber 
bullet. As of 8:30 p.m. none of> the injuries were reported to be 
life-threatening.> > Q: What did you consider were the most 
important differences> between the demonstration yesterday and 
today?> > Greg (who photographed the march): The participation of 
the> Canadian and Quebecois labor movement in today’s> 
action gave everyone the assurance that there was mass> 
support—and from the working class—for the> assault 
on the FTAA. I’d estimate there were> 40,000-60,000 people here 
today between the march and the> groups around the city. The Canadian 
workers know how> damaging NAFTA has been to them. Quebec’s 
workers feel> threatened by the FTAA as they did by NAFTA. 
Workers> throughout Canada have shown in the past few years they 
are> capable of militant actions themselves. I saw groups of> 
workers today with their own cotton gas masks and goggles.> Public 
workers in Newfoundland recently won 15% raises with> just the threat of 
a strike.> > Sara (IAC organizer): The labor march and the> 
“break-off” marches were separate actions, but> when 
you went to the wall to fight you knew that the workers> were cheering 
you on, even those who were not participating.> > Q. Most of you 
were at demonstrations against these> oppressive international bodies in 
Washington and then at> the protest in Philadelphia of the Republican 
National> Convention. How would you compare them with this one?> 
> Gery (youth organizer): This one was more militant. We were> out 
in the streets near the perimeter of the fence last> night past midnight 
and then in action from early this> morning, and all that time the 
demonstrators were standing> up to the police. Also, since the police 
relied on> gas—there were reports of 30 canisters a minute 
coming> at us—and water cannon instead of on arrests, it 
meant> we could stay in action longer without being arrested. 
There> were many demonstrators here from the United States and I> 
think that the good, fighting spirit and solidarity of these> days will 
carry over for the next period just as it did> after the experience in 
Seattle.> > Deirdre (veteran anti-war activist and socialist 
writer):> There was another tremendous difference. The mass of 
the> population of the city were with us. It wasn’t 
just> the workers on the labor march, but also the people who> 
lived in the neighborhoods. Even the shopkeepers who boarded> up their 
shops in fear of the clashes invited us in to use> the bathroom or to 
give us water to wash out our eyes. One> person insisted he help us, and 
told us how “my father> fought the fascists in the 
Netherlands” as he berated> the police. Another woman ran down 
after us to offer us> muffins. There was zero hostility to the 
demonstrators,> including those who were tearing town the fence and 
fighting> the police the hardest.> > Sara: There was also 
the advantage that both the movement in> Quebec and in all of Canada, and 
the population in general,> is better organized and more politically 
aware. Our> anti-racist, socialist and anti-imperialist literature 
was> accepted with enthusiasm by the crowd. And they also took> 
care of us well. At the school where we stayed the high> school students 
had fought to make it available for the> demonstration, they kept it 
secure and the organized food> for those who came to struggle. You had 
the feeling of being> an army with a population behind you.> 
> Q: The IAC brought its own political program to the> 
demonstration. How did you participate to bring out these> political 
points? What was your participation?> > Gery: Our main thrust was 
to raise the case of Mumia> Abu-Jamal. We had hundreds of bright orange 
flags that read> “Free Mumia” in Spanish, French and 
English. And> we had a big banner that read “Build global 
resis

Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

If you have some real EVIDENCE regarding Rosie O'Donnell, by all means
provide it to us.  All you have given us is your unsubstantiated
prejudicial opinion...


June (by no means a Rosie O'Donnell fan)


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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Okay to give little kids to big rich lesbians and homosexuals?

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Aleisha Saba wrote:
>Better take good look in mirror;  my ancestors walked out of the Garden
>of Eden..so yours slithered out on his belly?

Rats walk on legs.

If it weren't for reptiles, we'd be overrun with rodents like you


June (who knows of no disease spread by reptiles, but plenty are spread
by rodents)

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 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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