Re: debian how-to
Daniel Burrows wrote: [...] For instance, today I wanted to read up on git hook scripts. I checked the manual page git(1), and saw the note: Read hooks[9] for more details about each hook. ... 9. hooks hooks.html Being an experienced Debian user, I knew that I needed to look in /usr/share/doc/git to find the rest of the documentation. Except that's not right, because there is no git package. [...] Does this documentation show up in dwww? I can't check this in Etch - git-buildpackage will not install because of dependency problems. -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
Chris Lale writes: Daniel Burrows wrote: [...] For instance, today I wanted to read up on git hook scripts. I checked the manual page git(1), and saw the note: Read hooks[9] for more details about each hook. ... 9. hooks hooks.html Being an experienced Debian user, I knew that I needed to look in /usr/share/doc/git to find the rest of the documentation. Except that's not right, because there is no git package. [...] Does this documentation show up in dwww? I can't check this in Etch - git-buildpackage will not install because of dependency problems. Its in package git-doc and is therefore in the /usr/share/doc/git-doc directory -- Alan Chandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (via webmail - normally means I am not at my computer) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
Alan Chandler wrote: Chris Lale writes: Daniel Burrows wrote: [...] For instance, today I wanted to read up on git hook scripts. I checked the manual page git(1), and saw the note: Read hooks[9] for more details about each hook. ... 9. hooks hooks.html Being an experienced Debian user, I knew that I needed to look in /usr/share/doc/git to find the rest of the documentation. Except that's not right, because there is no git package. [...] Does this documentation show up in dwww? I can't check this in Etch - git-buildpackage will not install because of dependency problems. Its in package git-doc and is therefore in the /usr/share/doc/git-doc directory Thanks. hooks.html is exactly where you say after installing git-doc. It does not show up in dwww though - presumably because its not registered with doc-base. BTW, dpkg -S $(which git) does not work with only the git-doc package installed. This works though (filtering a search for git to show the result of git and hooks): $ dpkg -S git | grep hooks git-doc: /usr/share/doc/git-doc/hooks.html git-doc: /usr/share/doc/git-doc/hooks.txt Cheers, -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
Am 2007-12-31 22:15:46, schrieb Douglas A. Tutty: I also dislike huge long man pages. To me, man pages should be for a bit more help than foo --help; a summary. The main doc should be in plain html for viewing with lynx or something. So you hate the manpages to bash, fvwm, gcc, zgv, fetchmail or mc? Hmmm... weird! I love it, since this are real manpages and HTML pages can not easy searched... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 01:35:08PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2007-12-31 22:15:46, schrieb Douglas A. Tutty: I also dislike huge long man pages. To me, man pages should be for a bit more help than foo --help; a summary. The main doc should be in plain html for viewing with lynx or something. So you hate the manpages to bash, fvwm, gcc, zgv, fetchmail or mc? Hmmm... weird! I love it, since this are real manpages and HTML pages can not easy searched... HTML pages (not just html versions of man pages) can have a TOC, you can search with / the same as you can with less in a man page. I use Lynx mostly for things like the shorewall-doc, tldp HOWTOs, ntpd docs, etc. Things like the bash man page are too much info for one single page, rsync would be easier to read in a different format. The man pages started out as an online version of printed books. In printed books, you can keep a thumb in one spot, turn a couple of pages and flip back and forth. Can't do that easily in a normal man page with less. Online docs should use the most user-friendly format possible. Since I can do everything in lynx that I can in man/less, yet if I go to Konqueror I can split the screen and have separate sections, it would make sense to me if man pages were in html with toc and hyperlinks. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 01:35:08PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2007-12-31 22:15:46, schrieb Douglas A. Tutty: I also dislike huge long man pages. To me, man pages should be for a bit more help than foo --help; a summary. The main doc should be in plain html for viewing with lynx or something. So you hate the manpages to bash, fvwm, gcc, zgv, fetchmail or mc? Hmmm... weird! I love it, since this are real manpages and HTML pages can not easy searched... HTML pages (not just html versions of man pages) can have a TOC, you can search with / the same as you can with less in a man page. I use Lynx mostly for things like the shorewall-doc, tldp HOWTOs, ntpd docs, etc. Things like the bash man page are too much info for one single page, rsync would be easier to read in a different format. The man pages started out as an online version of printed books. In printed books, you can keep a thumb in one spot, turn a couple of pages and flip back and forth. Can't do that easily in a normal man page with less. Online docs should use the most user-friendly format possible. Since I can do everything in lynx that I can in man/less, yet if I go to Konqueror I can split the screen and have separate sections, it would make sense to me if man pages were in html with toc and hyperlinks. You can use dwww to view man pages and info in a web browser, as well as the other documentation. That allows you to search using the browser capabilities (using / for w3m), although it doesn't supply the TOC, index or hyperlinks. I usually prefer man pages directly with less as my pager, but sometimes dwww also works well. Info pages are almost unusable for me, but the html view in dwww makes them almost bearable. The problem with info pages is that they are a book format, so it is difficult for quick lookup. They have a TOC and index, but they seem to index things in ways that I find almost incomprehensible, so I usually end up having to page though everything before I find what I want. Since they are multiple pages, that means that having to hunt down every link to try to find all of the pages. -- Carl Johnson[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 10:17:23AM -0800, Carl Johnson wrote: You can use dwww to view man pages and info in a web browser, as well as the other documentation. That allows you to search using the browser capabilities (using / for w3m), although it doesn't supply the TOC, index or hyperlinks. I usually prefer man pages directly with less as my pager, but sometimes dwww also works well. If you have the whole groff installed, you can use man -H to get that, but again I don't think you get hyperlinks. Info pages are almost unusable for me, but the html view in dwww makes them almost bearable. The problem with info pages is that they are a book format, so it is difficult for quick lookup. They have a TOC and index, but they seem to index things in ways that I find almost incomprehensible, so I usually end up having to page though everything before I find what I want. Since they are multiple pages, that means that having to hunt down every link to try to find all of the pages. Agreed, I hate info more than man, even with pinfo. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
Rick Dooling wrote: [...] I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, [...] You may find some of these things in the Debian NewbieDOC project [1]. If you feel like adding more the wiki is very simple to use (it uses the same software as wikipedia.) Currently, there are articles/HOWTOs for these areas: * 1 Help installing Debian GNU/Linux * 2 Help installing software in Debian GNU/Linux * 3 Help managing a Debian system * 4 Help with network and internet * 5 Help with office applications * 6 Help with multimedia in Debian * 7 Help with printing * 8 Help with programming [1] http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Docs -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:05:35 -0800 (PST) Rick Dooling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing flash, mounting usb drives or ntfs drives and so on, the sort of things found in Martin's Ubuntu How-To. I know that some work in both. I guess I'm just curious if a similar thing already exists for Debian. And if not would it be a useful project to redo the Ubuntu How-To with an eye toward the Debian user. Hi Rick, I'm writing several howto's and publishing them on http://wiki.slashconcept.com Some of them are Ubuntu related but most of them are dedicated to Debian. The most recent one is about internet anonymity runnning Tor, Privoxy, Torbutton and Vidalia (published today). So take a look at the wiki and if you have some proposals for new howtos you can write me a mail. Greets, Chris -- Christoph Pilka (CEO) slashconcept GbR | www.slashconcept.com Brüggemannstraße 1 38640 Goslar Tel: +49 (0) 5321 / 1 80 00 Mobil: +49 (0) 1 77 / 2 92 88 76 Fax: +49 (0) 53 21 / 75 91 69 Firmensitz: Goslar Geschäftsführer: Christoph Pilka, Jens Grasshoff Ust-IdNr.: DE253452374
Re: debian how-to
On 01/01/2008, Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 01:49:25PM -0800, Daniel Burrows wrote:
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 01:15:48PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL
PROTECTED] was heard to say:
Perhaps it should be policy that if the documentation isn't in the usual
/usr/share/doc/[package-name] that there be a note there with a pointer
(i.e. The documentation for this package is in the foo-doc package since
it is so big.) or (The documentation for this package is under a license
that does not meet the debian free software guidelines. You can find
the documentation {in the non-free package foo-doc | at the following
URL}, preferably the non-free package option.
Also, perhaps it should be policy that the man page for each command
list the package from which it comes and therefore where the further
docs are.
The dpkg -S trick should be in the debian installation manual under how
to find documentation, which should also point to the debian-reference,
and the other sources of documentation we've discussed in this thread.
A secondary issue is that there's no consistency in file formats
between different documentation packages. To read documentation, you
need to be able to handle:
* Plain text
* HTML
* PDF
* PostScript
* DVI
* Manpages
* Info documents
* Whatever help file format Gnome and KDE are using nowadays
There is also texinfo as another source of documentation and anyone
using perl has to know about perldoc.
This wouldn't be as much of an issue if there was a way for a user to
easily access all the documentation related to a command; PDF viewers
are fairly easy to deal with, for instance (although a lot of packages
compress their PDF documentation, which means you have to manually
uncompress it somewhere).
I think that pdf is the biggest issue. I don't normally put a pdf
reader on all my boxes and I often don't have X. I usually have mc and
lynx. If I need info, I'll use pinfo although I don't like the info
format.
I also dislike huge long man pages. To me, man pages should be for a
bit more help than foo --help; a summary. The main doc should be in
plain html for viewing with lynx or something.
I quite like man pages - I guess you must dislike the iptables and
bash ones immensely.
I use less as my pager and can search the man page to find things I
want plus move around the document reasonably well. The format of the
man pages is that the syntax is at the top of the file with the
options all discussed afterwards so I only have to go back up to the
top using 1G to refresh my view of what I am seeing. Esc-U usually
clears selected text resulting from a search.
I would however prefer to see a consistent approach to documentation.
It is very confusing for a newbie.
I am not entirely fond of the info system even though it is useful
with the emacs speedbar. Yet there are short man pages which say see
the info page for the complete documentation and that caused me the
worry of working out if I had info installed.
Lynx is useful for viewing HTML on non-X systems.
It is also important to have the documentation for the particular
version of the package installed
and not the latest available on the upstream website - many newbies
might well seek that website rather than think to look for
documentation on their system.
There is a massive amount of documentation out there. Some indexing
of debian documentation occurs on http://www.uk.debian.org/doc/ but I
think package documentation should always appear in
/usr/share/doc/packagename.
Some of the howtos are important to read especially the apt-get howto
but I find I worry how applicable some howtos actually are now.
Regards
Lesley
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Re: debian how-to
Thanks for the thoughts and advice. I agree about learning to use man pages, and I use them whenever possible, and also look for any installed docs, but I still think a list of common post-installation tasks would be handy. I'm going to do a couple of installs next week and will try to compile a list, or build off of David Martin's Ubuntu how-to. The Debian Wiki is also nice. http://wiki.debian.org/Manual-Howto Thanks again, Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 01:08:13PM +0900, David wrote: Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 06:05:35PM -0800, Rick Dooling wrote: I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing flash, mounting usb drives or ntfs drives and so on, the sort of things found in Martin's Ubuntu How-To. I know that some work in both. I guess I'm just curious if a similar thing already exists for Debian. And if not would it be a useful project to redo the Ubuntu How-To with an eye toward the Debian user. Since all the documentation is already provided on how to do each of these with whatever tools are installed on the user's box, the most important skill for the new Debian user to have is howto find and use the documentation. Agreed! And not just documentation. I've thought a number of times that the package description aspect of the aptitude interface should include the path of the package concerned. Also on the Debian site package description and the documentation - surely that makes sense. This would help a newbie get on top of the filing scenario much more quickly. I remember struggling to find exactly where packages lived on my system when I would look in a number of places and see packages with similar names residing in a couple of them (or more). The docs are always under /usr/share/doc/[package name] apropos which locate find Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
From: Douglas A. Tutty Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:08 AM On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 01:08:13PM +0900, David wrote: Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 06:05:35PM -0800, Rick Dooling wrote: I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing flash, mounting usb drives or ntfs drives and so on, the sort of things found in Martin's Ubuntu How-To. I know that some work in both. I guess I'm just curious if a similar thing already exists for Debian. And if not would it be a useful project to redo the Ubuntu How-To with an eye toward the Debian user. Since all the documentation is already provided on how to do each of these with whatever tools are installed on the user's box, the most important skill for the new Debian user to have is howto find and use the documentation. Agreed! And not just documentation. I've thought a number of times that the package description aspect of the aptitude interface should include the path of the package concerned. Also on the Debian site package description and the documentation - surely that makes sense. This would help a newbie get on top of the filing scenario much more quickly. I remember struggling to find exactly where packages lived on my system when I would look in a number of places and see packages with similar names residing in a couple of them (or more). The docs are always under /usr/share/doc/[package name] apropos which locate find As a n00b to Debian (though I've used several distributions over the past few years) a lot of these simple things can take quite a while to figure out. For those of you who have been intimately involved and continuously using Debian it is so obvious but to the rest of us - nope. Not all the docs are under /usr/share/doc/[package name], some are under usr/share/[package name] with no apparent rhyme nor reason. Then, everything is gzipped, should the user extract these to their home folder or is there a particular method to read these as they stand? There are a plethora of packages that popup when you search aptitude or the other graphical package manager, which is the most common and easiest to use? should we install everything or? Also getting the package managers to work with other mirrors or the non free or contrib, how is it done without searching for hours through documentation in an often cyclic manner. Then there's the installation manual that gives a brief overview of the installation but few links to go to for additional resources, help etc other than the list. What about using the Rescue modes of the install CD, other than a few short paragraphs there's not much help there. I've discovered a few it's inherent limitations while fixing the messed up grub hd assignments, ended up using a knoppix DVD to do all the fixing and reinstalling of GRUB, after searching for a few hours for solutions. The grub shell won't run from the rescue mode so many of the helpful items are unavailable. As was stated many other disto's have these n00b pages for a quick reference to get us up to speed so that we can start figuring out how to do things on our own. Many n00bs are reticient to post to lists or forums as they often receive negative feed back from some of the more seasoned users who feel like they are answering the same questions time and again. I've yet to find anything on somehow efficiently searching archives for fixes to problems that may have already been solved. Sometimes it's just a matter of using the proper key words. Anyways, my diatribe has gone on long enough, sorry. I'm just trying to elaborate on the need here, not asking for assistance ... yet. :) Dave -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fw: Re: debian how-to
Please respond to the list and not to me. -- Raquel Begin forwarded message: Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:58:01 -0500 From: Paul Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Raquel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: debian how-to On Mon December 31 2007, Raquel wrote: locate - list files in databases that match a pattern # locate header.php lists every file named header.php complete with path I downloaded powertop using svn. All that does is put the new source in a folder right where you are. That does me no good, so I try your locate: # locate powertop bash: locate: command not found paulandcilla:/media# ack. running KDE and Debian Lenny # uname -a Linux paulandcilla 2.6.22-3-686 #1 SMP Mon Nov 12 08:32:57 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux paulandcilla:/media# -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux user # 367800 Registered Ubuntu User #12459 -- Raquel For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in the United States is closely connected with this. --Albert Einstein -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 08:13:31 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not all the docs are under /usr/share/doc/[package name], some are under usr/share/[package name] with no apparent rhyme nor reason. Then, everything is gzipped, should the user extract these to their home folder or is there a particular method to read these as they stand? If you have less installed you can run: zless README.gz That will decompress to a pipe and let you read it. If you run 'eval $(lessfile' you could just run 'less README.gz' instead. As was stated many other disto's have these n00b pages for a quick reference to get us up to speed so that we can start figuring out how to do things on our own. Many n00bs are reticient to post to lists or forums as they often receive You could do worse than look at the 'doc-debian' package: In this package, you will find: * Debian Linux Manifesto, * Constitution for the Debian Project, * Debian GNU/Linux Social Contract, * Debian Free Software Guidelines. . Additionally provided are: * Debian GNU/Linux Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), * Debian Bug Tracking System documentation, and * Introduction to the Debian mailing lists. . All of these files are available at ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/ and mirrors thereof. I've yet to find anything on somehow efficiently searching archives for fixes to problems that may have already been solved. Sometimes it's just a matter of using the proper key words. If a problem is fixed in a package then you should already have it! (Unless you see it in a stable release and it was only fixed in unstable) But I'm not 100% sure I understand what you mean in this point Does this help: http://bugs.debian.org/'package name' e.g. http://bugs.debian.org/less Steve -- # Kink-Friendly Dating http://ctrl-alt-date.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 08:13:31AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Douglas A. Tutty Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:08 AM The docs are always under /usr/share/doc/[package name] apropos which locate find As a n00b to Debian (though I've used several distributions over the past few years) a lot of these simple things can take quite a while to figure out. For those of you who have been intimately involved and continuously using Debian it is so obvious but to the rest of us - nope. That kind of info should be in the debian-reference, debian-policy, fhs, etc. Not all the docs are under /usr/share/doc/[package name], some are under usr/share/[package name] with no apparent rhyme nor reason. Then, everything is gzipped, should the user extract these to their home folder or is there a particular method to read these as they stand? If you find docs for a package under /usr/share/[package name] then that is probably a bug. Personally, I view the docs with mc. When you tell it to view, it will unpack and display with its internal viewer. If it is html, I hit enter and I get lynx. I've never seen a question here on the list about how do I read the documentation. There are a plethora of packages that popup when you search aptitude or the other graphical package manager, which is the most common and easiest to use? should we install everything or? Just like doing a library search (or a google search), you can combine search terms for Aptitude. Search patters are covered in the aptitude-doc manual. Also getting the package managers to work with other mirrors or the non free or contrib, how is it done without searching for hours through documentation in an often cyclic manner. You can't complain that debian doesn't tell you how to connect to a non-debian mirror. man sources.list should work for all mirrors. Contrib and non-free are also examples given in the man page. Then there's the installation manual that gives a brief overview of the installation but few links to go to for additional resources, help etc other than the list. What about using the Rescue modes of the install CD, other than a few short paragraphs there's not much help there. I've discovered a few it's inherent limitations while fixing the messed up grub hd assignments, ended up using a knoppix DVD to do all the fixing and reinstalling of GRUB, after searching for a few hours for solutions. The grub shell won't run from the rescue mode so many of the helpful items are unavailable. The installation manual is huge, not a brief overview. You may have been looking at an installation summary. The release notes for Etch were quite a stack when I printed them out. As was stated many other disto's have these n00b pages for a quick reference to get us up to speed so that we can start figuring out how to do things on our own. Many n00bs are reticient to post to lists or forums as they often receive negative feed back from some of the more seasoned users who feel like they are answering the same questions time and again. debian-reference, aptitude-doc, man pages, installation manual (the whole thing), online wiki, google the archives, and then ask on the list. I've yet to find anything on somehow efficiently searching archives for fixes to problems that may have already been solved. Sometimes it's just a matter of using the proper key words. google. site:lists.debian.org [topic] [topic]... Anyways, my diatribe has gone on long enough, sorry. I'm just trying to elaborate on the need here, not asking for assistance ... yet. :) Dave Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:13:31 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not all the docs are under /usr/share/doc/[package name], some are under usr/share/[package name] with no apparent rhyme nor reason. Then, everything is gzipped, should the user extract these to their home folder or is there a particular method to read these as they stand? The files under /usr/share/[package name] are meant to be used by the package at run time, and perhaps are part of an online help facility. I understand packages which have a built in help often do not give out other documentation. But if that is not the case, and the primary documentation lives compressed in /usr/shar/package-name; then you have found a bug, please report it. Also getting the package managers to work with other mirrors or the non free or contrib, how is it done without searching for hours through documentation in an often cyclic manner. I think this is covered in the release notes. Then there's the installation manual that gives a brief overview of the installation but few links to go to for additional resources, help etc other than the list. What about using the Rescue modes of the install CD, other than a few short paragraphs there's not much help there. I've discovered a few it's inherent limitations while fixing the messed up grub hd assignments, ended up using a knoppix DVD to do all the fixing and reinstalling of GRUB, after searching for a few hours for solutions. The grub shell won't run from the rescue mode so many of the helpful items are unavailable. As was stated many other disto's have these n00b pages for a quick reference to get us up to speed so that we can start figuring out how to do things on our own. Many n00bs are reticient to post to lists or forums as they often receive negative feed back from some of the more seasoned users who feel like they are answering the same questions time and again. I've yet to find anything on somehow efficiently searching archives for fixes to problems that may have already been solved. Sometimes it's just a matter of using the proper key words. Anyways, my diatribe has gone on long enough, sorry. I'm just trying to elaborate on the need here, not asking for assistance ... yet. :) Perhaps you can provide the kind of documentation that you think is needed? I mean, this is the Debian way, a whole bunch of people volunteering our time to scratch our particular itches. Your diatribe seems to indicate this is an itch you might be best to scratch. manoj -- Who goeth a-borrowing goeth a-sorrowing. Thomas Tusser Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:04:53 -0800, Raquel [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: forwarded message: Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:58:01 -0500 From: Paul Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] I downloaded powertop using svn. All that does is put the new source in a folder right where you are. That does me no good, so I try your locate: locate powertop bash: locate: command not found paulandcilla:/media# , | __ which dlocate | /usr/bin/dlocate | __ dlocate /usr/bin/dlocate | dlocate: /usr/bin/dlocate | __ apt-cache show dlocate | Package: dlocate | Priority: optional | Section: utils | Installed-Size: 88 | Maintainer: Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Architecture: all | Version: 0.94 | Depends: dctrl-tools | grep-dctrl (= 0.11), dpkg (= 1.8.0), locate | findutils ( 4.2.31-2), perl | Filename: pool/main/d/dlocate/dlocate_0.94_all.deb | Size: 16606 | MD5sum: 8b3eb28d752136b527e2062b31b2d1f6 | SHA1: 1454c9ba576aa97102898137d84ef85f194ee88b | SHA256: d74531e715bd0f262c9970152e83b2c99c070dcf5346240bd3fd44391f3b450b | Description: fast alternative to dpkg -L and dpkg -S | Uses GNU locate to greatly speed up finding out which package a file | belongs to (i.e. a very fast dpkg -S). Many other uses, including | options to view all files in a package, calculate disk space used, view | and check md5sums, list man pages, etc. | Tag: admin::package-management, implemented-in::perl, interface::commandline, role::program, scope::utility, suite::debian, use::searching, works-with::file, works-with::software:package ` , | __ which locate | /usr/bin/locate | __ dlocate /usr/bin/locate | locate: /usr/bin/locate.findutils | __ apt-cache show locate | Package: locate | Priority: optional | Section: utils | Installed-Size: 348 | Maintainer: Andreas Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Architecture: amd64 | Source: findutils | Version: 4.2.31-4 | Replaces: findutils ( 4.2.31-2) | Depends: findutils ( 4.2.31-1), libc6 (= 2.7-1) | Conflicts: slocate (= 3.1-1.1) | Filename: pool/main/f/findutils/locate_4.2.31-4_amd64.deb | Size: 141504 | MD5sum: f5a85b5fd7ed8c6d13abfc2fefce9b7a | SHA1: f8d4f03fe85293e1eebd86dfcaa82cb6e4dbb46e | SHA256: 1335cf78d605b897c90ffe7e13465807aea7befaed329ae6ef1d23dd7a15afac | Description: maintain and query an index of a directory tree | updatedb generates an index of files and directories. GNU locate can be used | to quickly query this index. ` , | __ which powertop | /usr/sbin/powertop | __ dlocate /usr/sbin/powertop | powertop: /usr/sbin/powertop | __ apt-cache show powertop | Package: powertop | Priority: extra | Section: utils | Installed-Size: 404 | Maintainer: Patrick Winnertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Architecture: amd64 | Version: 1.9-2 | Depends: libc6 (= 2.7-1), libncursesw5 (= 5.6+20071006-3) | Suggests: cpufrequtils, laptop-mode-tools | Filename: pool/main/p/powertop/powertop_1.9-2_amd64.deb | Size: 69104 | MD5sum: ea14bf106cca03510dad2386aa4dc992 | SHA1: e5750a003b577cc288bafd18a4ced3b4e91458b9 | SHA256: 7d7fc9a26525c657b186a20a51dff9ac67f3507f47c13dcb0c2d617be5fbb773 | Description: linux tool to find out what is using power on a laptop | PowerTOP is a Linux tool that finds the software component(s) that | make your laptop use more power than necessary while it is idle. As of | Linux kernel version 2.6.21, the kernel no longer has a fixed 1000Hz | timer tick. This will (in theory) give a huge power savings because | the CPU stays in low power mode for longer periods of time during | system idle. | . | However... there are many things that can ruin the party, both inside | the kernel and in userspace. PowerTOP combines various sources of | information from the kernel into one convenient screen so that you can | see how well your system is doing, and which components are the | biggest problem. | Homepage: http://www.linuxpowertop.org | Tag: hardware::laptop, implemented-in::c, interface::commandline, role::program, scope::utility | Task: laptop ` __ aptitude install powertop HTH. HAND. manoj -- Worth seeing? Yes, but not worth going to see. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 04:27:30 + (UTC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing ... Thanks, The best resource is this mailing list, frankly, for any general questions. Another resource I recommend for basic set up questions is http://www.debiantutorials.org/. One resource that has the potential to be great is http://wiki.debian.org/. If you yourself wanted to create a basic howto page for debian, this would be the place to do it. Of course, the man pages, the /usr/share/doc/ directory, and google, are great resources. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 01:15:48PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:13:31 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not all the docs are under /usr/share/doc/[package name], some are under usr/share/[package name] with no apparent rhyme nor reason. Then, everything is gzipped, should the user extract these to their home folder or is there a particular method to read these as they stand? The files under /usr/share/[package name] are meant to be used by the package at run time, and perhaps are part of an online help facility. I understand packages which have a built in help often do not give out other documentation. But if that is not the case, and the primary documentation lives compressed in /usr/shar/package-name; then you have found a bug, please report it. Even when Policy is followed, it isn't necessarily that simple. For instance, today I wanted to read up on git hook scripts. I checked the manual page git(1), and saw the note: Read hooks[9] for more details about each hook. ... 9. hooks hooks.html Being an experienced Debian user, I knew that I needed to look in /usr/share/doc/git to find the rest of the documentation. Except that's not right, because there is no git package. Luckily, I also know about dpkg -S $(which git) which tells me that git is in the git-core package. So I check there: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls /usr/share/doc/git-core/hooks.html ls: /usr/share/doc/git-core/hooks.html: No such file or directory So I check the source package for git-core to see if the docs got split out somehow: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache showsrc git-core Package: git-core Binary: git-daemon-run, git-core, git-cvs, gitweb, git-gui, git-email, git-arch, git-svn, git-doc, gitk Aha, there's a git-doc package! And indeed, that's where hooks.html lives: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls /usr/share/doc/git-doc/hooks.html /usr/share/doc/git-doc/hooks.html That took me a minute or two. But there are at least four things I had to know which a new user of Debian won't know. I think the biggest problem is that documentation is organized by package and not by command, or at least that there's no interface for searching *all* the documentation by command. There's also no consistency in where the documentation ends up, although this may be a matter of Policy compliance. To take the first three packages I looked at: * git-doc places its files in /usr/share/doc/git-doc * vim-doc places its files in /usr/share/doc/vim-common/html * aptitude-doc-* places its files in /usr/share/doc/aptitude/html/$LANG A secondary issue is that there's no consistency in file formats between different documentation packages. To read documentation, you need to be able to handle: * Plain text * HTML * PDF * PostScript * DVI * Manpages * Info documents * Whatever help file format Gnome and KDE are using nowadays This wouldn't be as much of an issue if there was a way for a user to easily access all the documentation related to a command; PDF viewers are fairly easy to deal with, for instance (although a lot of packages compress their PDF documentation, which means you have to manually uncompress it somewhere). I don't have time to do this, but I think it is something that should be fixed at some point. doc-base was an effort to at least build a central documentation registry (in the non-Windows sense :) ), but AFAIK it's not used much these days. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 08:13:31AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Douglas A. Tutty Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:08 AM - Original Message - From: Rick Dooling Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:05 PM Hello all, I started out on Debian. Moved to Ubuntu for a few months, and then moved back to Debian a couple of years ago. I still find this Ubuntu How-To by David Martin very helpful, and I'm wondering if there is such an animal for Debian. http://www.funnestra.org/ubuntu/gutsy/ I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing flash, mounting usb drives or ntfs drives and so on, the sort of things found in Martin's Ubuntu How-To. I know that some work in both. I guess I'm just curious if a similar thing already exists for Debian. And if not would it be a useful project to redo the Ubuntu How-To with an eye toward the Debian user. Thanks, Rick Dooling ** The docs are always under /usr/share/doc/[package name] apropos which locate find As a n00b to Debian (though I've used several distributions over the past few years) a lot of these simple things can take quite a while to figure out. For those of you who have been intimately involved and continuously using Debian it is so obvious but to the rest of us - nope. That kind of info should be in the debian-reference, debian-policy, fhs, etc. Doug. Thanks everyone for your suggestions, I was just trying to site some examples for a need for a more simplistic starter guide for n00bs, I've been doing already some of the suggestions and found my own alternatives. It's more the wading through the voluminous documentation and finding the right piece within that that's the issue. It's a very daunting and often confusing process trying to figure some of this out for one's self. As was suggested a quick summary of how to do some of these (with appropriate references), all in one spot was a nice idea, I thought and I was trying to substantiate the original post by Rick Dooling yesterday (inserted above) and his observation / suggestion / request / ??. Dave
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 01:49:25PM -0800, Daniel Burrows wrote:
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 01:15:48PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL
PROTECTED] was heard to say:
Even when Policy is followed, it isn't necessarily that simple.
For instance, today I wanted to read up on git hook scripts. I
checked the manual page git(1), and saw the note:
Read hooks[9] for more details about each hook.
...
9. hooks
hooks.html
Being an experienced Debian user, I knew that I needed to look in
/usr/share/doc/git to find the rest of the documentation. Except that's
not right, because there is no git package. Luckily, I also know
about
dpkg -S $(which git)
which tells me that git is in the git-core package. So I check
there:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls /usr/share/doc/git-core/hooks.html
ls: /usr/share/doc/git-core/hooks.html: No such file or directory
So I check the source package for git-core to see if the docs got
split out somehow:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache showsrc git-core
Package: git-core
Binary: git-daemon-run, git-core, git-cvs, gitweb, git-gui, git-email,
git-arch, git-svn, git-doc, gitk
Aha, there's a git-doc package! And indeed, that's where hooks.html
lives:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls /usr/share/doc/git-doc/hooks.html
/usr/share/doc/git-doc/hooks.html
That took me a minute or two. But there are at least four things I
had to know which a new user of Debian won't know.
Perhaps it should be policy that if the documentation isn't in the usual
/usr/share/doc/[package-name] that there be a note there with a pointer
(i.e. The documentation for this package is in the foo-doc package since
it is so big.) or (The documentation for this package is under a license
that does not meet the debian free software guidelines. You can find
the documentation {in the non-free package foo-doc | at the following
URL}, preferably the non-free package option.
Also, perhaps it should be policy that the man page for each command
list the package from which it comes and therefore where the further
docs are.
The dpkg -S trick should be in the debian installation manual under how
to find documentation, which should also point to the debian-reference,
and the other sources of documentation we've discussed in this thread.
A secondary issue is that there's no consistency in file formats
between different documentation packages. To read documentation, you
need to be able to handle:
* Plain text
* HTML
* PDF
* PostScript
* DVI
* Manpages
* Info documents
* Whatever help file format Gnome and KDE are using nowadays
This wouldn't be as much of an issue if there was a way for a user to
easily access all the documentation related to a command; PDF viewers
are fairly easy to deal with, for instance (although a lot of packages
compress their PDF documentation, which means you have to manually
uncompress it somewhere).
I think that pdf is the biggest issue. I don't normally put a pdf
reader on all my boxes and I often don't have X. I usually have mc and
lynx. If I need info, I'll use pinfo although I don't like the info
format.
I also dislike huge long man pages. To me, man pages should be for a
bit more help than foo --help; a summary. The main doc should be in
plain html for viewing with lynx or something.
I don't have time to do this, but I think it is something that should
be fixed at some point. doc-base was an effort to at least build a
central documentation registry (in the non-Windows sense :) ), but AFAIK
it's not used much these days.
I could never figure it out in the time I had to spend on figuring it
out. It was far easier just to do what we've discussed here.
Doug.
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Re: debian how-to
On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 06:05:35PM -0800, Rick Dooling wrote: I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing flash, mounting usb drives or ntfs drives and so on, the sort of things found in Martin's Ubuntu How-To. I know that some work in both. I guess I'm just curious if a similar thing already exists for Debian. And if not would it be a useful project to redo the Ubuntu How-To with an eye toward the Debian user. The problem would be all the variation possible in Debian. I use Aptitude in interactive mode and would search for an mp3 player. Others would use apt-get. I run amd64 and had to setup a chroot i386 to get flash running in Etch. I mount USB sticks by adding an entry in /etc/fstab and a mount point then just mounting them with mount. Others use one of at least three Desktop Environments each with their own method. Since all the documentation is already provided on how to do each of these with whatever tools are installed on the user's box, the most important skill for the new Debian user to have is howto find and use the documentation. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 06:05:35PM -0800, Rick Dooling wrote: I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing flash, mounting usb drives or ntfs drives and so on, the sort of things found in Martin's Ubuntu How-To. I know that some work in both. I guess I'm just curious if a similar thing already exists for Debian. And if not would it be a useful project to redo the Ubuntu How-To with an eye toward the Debian user. Since all the documentation is already provided on how to do each of these with whatever tools are installed on the user's box, the most important skill for the new Debian user to have is howto find and use the documentation. Agreed! And not just documentation. I've thought a number of times that the package description aspect of the aptitude interface should include the path of the package concerned. Also on the Debian site package description and the documentation - surely that makes sense. This would help a newbie get on top of the filing scenario much more quickly. I remember struggling to find exactly where packages lived on my system when I would look in a number of places and see packages with similar names residing in a couple of them (or more). Regards, -- David Palmer Linux User - #352034 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian how-to
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:08:13 +0900 David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 06:05:35PM -0800, Rick Dooling wrote: I know about Debian Reference and Debian Help site, but I'm more interested in a list of common how-tos that most people would like to do after installation, such as add mp3 playing ability, installing flash, mounting usb drives or ntfs drives and so on, the sort of things found in Martin's Ubuntu How-To. I know that some work in both. I guess I'm just curious if a similar thing already exists for Debian. And if not would it be a useful project to redo the Ubuntu How-To with an eye toward the Debian user. Since all the documentation is already provided on how to do each of these with whatever tools are installed on the user's box, the most important skill for the new Debian user to have is howto find and use the documentation. Agreed! And not just documentation. I've thought a number of times that the package description aspect of the aptitude interface should include the path of the package concerned. Also on the Debian site package description and the documentation - surely that makes sense. This would help a newbie get on top of the filing scenario much more quickly. I remember struggling to find exactly where packages lived on my system when I would look in a number of places and see packages with similar names residing in a couple of them (or more). Regards, -- David Palmer Linux User - #352034 I moved to Linux, from Windoze NT, back in 1999. One of the very first things I did, in trying to learn about Linux, was to learn some very basic commands. Did you know that Linux keeps a database of every file stored on your hard drive(s)? There are commands to find those files. locate - list files in databases that match a pattern # locate header.php lists every file named header.php complete with path whereis - locate the binary, source, and manual page files for a command # whereis whereis lists every file named whereis on your hard disk, of course, complete with path -- Raquel Family values are a little like family vacations-subject to changeable weather and remembered more fondly with the passage of time. Though it rained all week at the beach, it's often the momentary rainbows that we remember. --Leslie Dreyfous -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
