Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
Hello, Hello, I have to say that I'm a little bit confused by all this. Even though I am in favor of an EN native-lang project, I'm afraid it would be created now for the bad reasons. It is not because the Marketing project pretendedly does a bad job that an EN project should be created. This community has rules and is coordinated in a way that can be criticized, but still in a way that has allowed us to survive and gain some significant market share since 4 years. It is not because some are frustrated that our community should divide itself into structural forks, like an EN NL project. I just cannot let this happen. We all know that we need more independence, more power and ressources to accomplish the purposes of OOo. We all know that we are going to live exciting and hazardous times because a foundation will have to be created, and that who will be inside it and who will invest in it is still not clear. This is why a project, and especially such an important project as an EN NL project, cannot be created out of frustration. This is why, although I usually don't do that, and that I hate to do this, I vote -1 for the EN NL project. Sorry, Charles-H. Schulz. I agree with Charles. Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
I agree with Charles. I too agree with Louis and Charlese. Pavel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
I too agree with Louis and Charlese. I contemplated the issue and the situation before making a decision. I vote -1 for the English Native Language project. Maybe not now but in the near future when we can form a united front for the English NL, anglophone :) Cheers, khirano - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] IRC bot
Thanks, Daniel. Charles. On Thu, 2005-02-24 at 01:29 -0500, Daniel Carrera wrote: Hi all, Just a neat update on the IRC conf idea. I just managed to write a really cool IRC robot to help out at the conference. Recall the basic setup. Someone speaks for 10-20min (may include slides, just tell us where to get them). After the talk comes a 5min QA. This is where the bot comes in. During the QA the channel is moderated. To ask a question you would type: /msg QuestionBot Your question. The moderator sees the question and posts it when the speaker is done answering the previous one. The moderator would also try to give everyone a chance, and if there are too many questions, pick the better ones. Then comes the free for all period where everyone can talk. This is so cool! Cheers, - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] IRC Conf -- channel op
Hello, I'd go for the first or the third option. Charles, On Thu, 2005-02-24 at 01:34 -0500, Daniel Carrera wrote: Hello all, We were talking about holding the conf at #ooonlc I just sent an email about moderating the channel. This means that we need a channel op there to change the channel modes. I can see 3 solutions: 1) Give channel op to whoever is speaking. 2) Give channel op to whoever is moderating. Linda Worthington has offered to moderate. She's cool. Can she get channel op? 3) Get a current channel op to sit through the talk so they can set/unset moderation. Which of these would be easiest to acomodate? Cheers, - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
Hi all, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hello, I have to say that I'm a little bit confused by all this. Even though I am in favor of an EN native-lang project, I'm afraid it would be created now for the bad reasons. It is not because the Marketing project pretendedly does a bad job that an EN project should be created. This community has rules and is coordinated in a way that can be criticized, but still in a way that has allowed us to survive and gain some significant market share since 4 years. It is not because some are frustrated that our community should divide itself into structural forks, like an EN NL project. I just cannot let this happen. We all know that we need more independence, more power and ressources to accomplish the purposes of OOo. We all know that we are going to live exciting and hazardous times because a foundation will have to be created, and that who will be inside it and who will invest in it is still not clear. This is why a project, and especially such an important project as an EN NL project, cannot be created out of frustration. This is why, although I usually don't do that, and that I hate to do this, I vote -1 for the EN NL project. If I agree that an EN project should not be created out of frustration, however I think that what Ryan and Ian expressed has to be taken into consideration. I'm surprised that we say no to people offering time an energy to our community. I feel that this is not the concept of the NLC. I'm surprised that we say no without proposing anything else. Please don't see all this as a critic, but more interrogations. I feel that saying -1 doesn't give any answer to the strenght of community they asked for and the help they need to manage this community, even if I understand well that this could not be done in emergency and in response to a possible fork. Kind regards Sophie -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.3.0 - Release Date: 21/02/2005 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
I'm surprised that we say no to people offering time an energy to our community. No, certainly not. We want them to help inside marketing project for their marketing goals of EN, N-L project in QA project for their QA goals of EN N-L project etc. We certainly do not want to have two groups of people doing marketing in English language, one in global amrketing project and one in English N-L project. This is nonsense. Pavel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
Charles wrote: appease the tensions at first, Consider that the tensions are a result of not having an NLP in the first place. This question can be today answered in two ways: -an EN native-lang project (not created out of frustration or in a desire of going somewhere else) -regional groups of users. For English, regional groups make slightly more sense than one NLP --- if only because regional groups could handle translation into English better. [The difference between British English, and American English is a lot more than Boot/Bonnet. Likewise, the difference between South African and Australian English is much more than vocabulary. (A triple negative in American English is a very ambigious yes. A triple negative in South African English is an emphatic no.)] Mitigating against regional groups, is where English is spoken. It is a collapsing language in North America. That is where I think _most_ of the native English users live. A north_american_regional_group would, by default, have to include, at a minimum, Spanish, and French. [French being an official language of Canada. Spanish being an official language in two states and the dominant language in five states of the united states. [OOo 1.1.4 does not support Spanish (US) as a Locale. That should be fixed for 2.0.] xan jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] IRC Conf -- channel op
Pavel Janík wrote: Please have a look at VOICE privilege on IRC. Yes, I know about voice. And during the talk itself and the QA all we need is voice. But when the talk first starts an op has to be there to set the channel to +m and after the QA set it back to -m. Cheers, -- Daniel Carrera | I don't want it perfect, Join OOoAuthors today! | I want it Tuesday. http://oooauthors.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] IRC Conf -- channel op
Charles-H.Schulz wrote: I'd go for the first or the third option. Sure. Whatever floats your boat. :-) As long as we can make this work without pulling any teeth... Cheers, -- Daniel Carrera | I don't want it perfect, Join OOoAuthors today! | I want it Tuesday. http://oooauthors.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] IRC Conf -- channel op
From: Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:27:32 -0500 need is voice. But when the talk first starts an op has to be there to set the channel to +m and after the QA set it back to -m. You seem to already have op access to @ooonlc ;-) -- Pavel Jank die_if_kernel(Whee... Hello Mr. Penguin, current-tss.kregs); -- 2.2.16 arch/sparc/kernel/traps.c - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
Jonathon Blake wrote: For English, regional groups make slightly more sense than one NLP --- if only because regional groups could handle translation into English better. I don't think so... you don't seem similar distinctions between all the variations of Spanish. And the differences I see between Spanish spoken in different countries is greater than that between Brits and Yanks. Another important issue to consider is not dividing our volunteers too much. There is an optimum region. Having too many people in a group is incredibly inefficient (I believe that some OOo lists suffer from this). But having too few is also ineffective. And yet a third issue is that NLs are not intended to correspond to countries, but rather to linguistic groups. I *like* that, and wouldn't want to lose it. I would not feel confortable on an American NL or an British NL. That just rubs the the wrong way. But I would be right at home at an English NL. A north_american_regional_group would, by default, have to include, at a minimum, Spanish, and French. [French being an official language of Canada. Spanish being an official language in two states and the dominant language in five states of the united states. Indeed, you're right. Yet another problem with country/region groups (that's a fourth point). And a fifth point: Marketing already has MarCons that are divided based on regional boundaries. Cheers, -- Daniel Carrera | I don't want it perfect, Join OOoAuthors today! | I want it Tuesday. http://oooauthors.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
Hi all, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I concur. I think all four of us want (eventualy) an English NL project, and for the same reasons. We'll make it eventualy :-) Yes! Please add me to the all four. :) Cheers, khirano - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
Hi Sophie, If I agree that an EN project should not be created out of frustration, however I think that what Ryan and Ian expressed has to be taken into consideration. I'm surprised that we say no to people offering time an energy to our community. I feel that this is not the concept of the NLC. I'm surprised that we say no without proposing anything else. Please don't see all this as a critic, but more interrogations. I feel that saying -1 doesn't give any answer to the strenght of community they asked for and the help they need to manage this community, even if I understand well that this could not be done in emergency and in response to a possible fork. I was under the impression that we--I and others--actually proposed a bunch of solutions that seemed, to me, to be better. That is: To boost and promote the MarCon efforts, to develop more regional groups. I also think that having more effective communication is a good strategy. Would an EN project, especially one born of frustration accomplish this? Or would it rather do the opposite? Kind regards Sophie best Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
Hi Jonathon, A north_american_regional_group would, by default, have to include, at a minimum, Spanish, and French. [French being an official language of Canada. Spanish being an official language in two states and the dominant language in five states of the united states. Not really. You can have a user group/ marketing group with people who speak different languages included; or many such groups. I think what counts here is local effectiveness, and I don't think that to be effective everyone in a regional group must speak the same language. But let me also rephrase the issue. If there is frustration now with process then let's address it directly. Don't create a NLC project out of frustration. Do bring the frustration to the Community Council or to NLC leadership. (I think the CC is more pertinent here, but Charles and I differ; both are options.) [OOo 1.1.4 does not support Spanish (US) as a Locale. That should be fixed for 2.0.] xan jonathon best Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
On Thu, 2005-02-24 at 20:59, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: Hi Jonathon, A north_american_regional_group would, by default, have to include, at a minimum, Spanish, and French. [French being an official language of Canada. Spanish being an official language in two states and the dominant language in five states of the united states. Not really. You can have a user group/ marketing group with people who speak different languages included; or many such groups. I think what counts here is local effectiveness, and I don't think that to be effective everyone in a regional group must speak the same language. But let me also rephrase the issue. If there is frustration now with process then let's address it directly. Don't create a NLC project out of frustration. Do bring the frustration to the Community Council or to NLC leadership. (I think the CC is more pertinent here, but Charles and I differ; both are options.) Well I believe our CC representative is well versed on the issue ;-) -- Ian Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] EN Native-Lang
hi I think it was agreed that one born out of frustration was not a good idea which is why there has been backing off. That does not mean that in principle an EN project is not needed for the reasons Charles and Sophie articulate. To me its simply a matter of symmetry and being seen to be even-handed with all native languages and as far as possible their cultural identity. No doubt there are lines to be drawn on that score but I wouldn't like to see a line drawn at the point of never ever having an EN project. Oh, I agree; an EN project is possible. I think there are some pragmatic issues to be dealt with, but those can be dealt with. As to the representative(s) being versed in the issues, there are actually three here: Sophie, Pavel (NLC), and Daniel (CCR). best Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[native-lang] Proposal for Indonesian native-lang project
I'd like to propose a native-lang project for the Indonesian language.For now, NLC level 1 will be best for us. I have been working on OOo documentation project and provide Indonesian version of the Manual, Setup Guide, HowTo, etc for several months. The officialpage for Indonesian page that i maintain is http://documentation.openoffice.org/id/ We have our local Documentation page to help Indonesian people who likes tocontribute to the Documentation project (http://project.informatix.or.id/ and http://jogja.linux.or.id/project/Dokumentasi-OOo/). In this project, we have 13 peoples who contributes to the Documentation project and still more to come. We also have two mailing list that provides OOo supports for Indonesian user and also forcontributor to the OOo Documentation project. The mailing list can be reached in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oooindo for support and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proyek-ooofor contributors I also a member of Jogja Linux User Group and moderator for Indonesian Linux Forum, http://forum.linux.or.id, which can support for the Indonesian project. It is an active OpenSource community. Web space, cvs access, and mailing lists will be needed to make this project alive Code for Indonesia : IDMy OpenOffice.org username is willysr.I've signed the JCA. - -- Willy Sudiarto Raharjo Registered Linux User : 336579 Public-key : http://www.informatix.or.id/willy/public-key.txt Blog : http://willysr.blogspot.com OOo Documentation Project (ID) : http://project.informatix.or.id Mandrakelinux Translation Project (ID) : http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/l10n/id.php3 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[native-lang] fisl6.0
Anyone planning to go to the 6th International Free Software Forum http://fisl.softwarelivre.org/ June 1-4, 2005, Porto Alegre/RS, Brazil ? If you wish to present a paper, the Call for Papers deadline is Monday 28 Feb, see: https://fisl.softwarelivre.org/papers/index.en.html Anyone just planning to be there? I know some people that are going from other OSS projects, but I just wondered whether there was going to be an OOo contigent :) All the best Jacqueline McNally Lead, OpenOffice.org Marketing Project - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] fisl6.0
Anyone planning to go to the 6th International Free Software Forum http://fisl.softwarelivre.org/ June 1-4, 2005, Porto Alegre/RS, Brazil ? Yes. If you wish to present a paper, the Call for Papers deadline is Monday 28 Feb, see: https://fisl.softwarelivre.org/papers/index.en.html Thanks! Anyone just planning to be there? I know some people that are going from other OSS projects, but I just wondered whether there was going to be an OOo contigent :) Friends, this is an important conference! All the best Jacqueline McNally Lead, OpenOffice.org Marketing Project cheers Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
