Re: Modularity and the system-upgrade path

[Howard Howell]

On Fri, 2019-10-18 at 13:05 +0200, Lukas Ruzicka wrote:
> 
> > Or, even better (or worse): Sombody installs GIMP via GNOME
> > Software,
> > 
> > and under the hood, dnf does its magic and installs gimp from the
> > 
> > module, which might depend on another, even non-default module,
> > etc.
> > 
> > But then, what will happen when that module is EOL, and the user
> > has
> > 
> > never even interacted with dnf, or modules? Will system upgrades
> > break
> > 
> > and prompt the user to fix something they didn't even know existed,
> > 
> > and have never interacted with?
> 
> This has already happened. We have had complaints from people who had
> neverinstalled any module, or used the "dnf module" command and they
> still ended up withmodules installed with a problem to upgrade their
> computers to F31.
> 
> 
>  
> > 
> > Fabio
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Pierre
> > 
> > > ___
I just got a new computer, an Intel with Nvidia 2060 graphics card.  I
could NOT get fedora to install or boot.  For the first time since
fedora 7 I am off of fedora.Wayland drove me nuts, the changes to the
OS were less than perfect, some applications I used to run would not
run, and on and on, the inability to install and boot Fedora was the
last straw for me.  I may come back someday, because up until Fedora
28, things were pretty good.  Get back to that standard, and I will
likely come back.  Meanwhile I will no longer recommend Fedora to my
friends until things stabilize.Good luck, guys.  I wish you all the
best.
Les H
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Openscad

[Howard Howell]

HI, everyone,
Is there a plan to upgrade OpenSCAD to 2019-05?  That is the
latest release according to the website?

Regards,
Les H
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Re: Fedora crda To wireless-regdb Upgrade

[Howard Howell]

On Fri, 2018-07-20 at 14:47 -0400, John W. Linville wrote:
> A mostly "behind the scenes" aspect of the Linux wireless LAN
> (IEEE802.11) subsystem has changed upstream with some system-level
> effects. Replacing an existing package with a cleaner but
> functionally
> equivalent package is an attractive option, but there are questions
> regarding the update path, how signing the the regulatory database
> should be handled, and how to communicate these changes outward to
> the
> greater community.
> 
> BACKGROUND
> 
> Usage of Radio Frequency (RF) spectrum is generally regulated around
> the world. Even unlicensed use of RF spectrum (as with wireless LANs)
> is still subject to some level of local regulation. In order to
> support
> lawful use of wireless LAN technology with Linux around the world,
> the
> Linux kernel uses an externally maintained wireless regulatory
> database
> that encodes relevant information about known regulatory (i.e.
> legal/governmental) domains. The kernel makes use of this information
> in order to enforce wireless regulations for devices under its
> control,
> although some devices further apply their own limitations at the
> driver
> or firmware level as well.
> 
> For a long time, the Linux kernel relied on a piece of software known
> as the Central Regulatory Domain Agent (CRDA) to feed the kernel with
> regulatory information in response to UDEV events that indicate what
> regulatory domain's rules are to be enforced. Also, within Fedora,
> the
> setregdomain script runs when a wireless netdev is instantiated. By
> default this script attempts to relate a system’s TZ (i.e. Time Zone)
> setting to a corresponding country code, which is then used to set
> the
> wireless regulatory domain. The setregdomain script can also use
> alternate means to determine which regulatory domain to request, as
> detailed in the setregdomain.1 man page.
> 
> CRDA is maintained upstream in the crda git repository. The wireless
> regulatory database is maintained upstream in the wireless-regdb git
> repository. In Fedora, snapshots of both of the above repositories
> are
> built within the single crda RPM. This is done to enable build-time
> generation of a key used to sign the wireless-regdb database which is
> then embedded in the concurrently built crda binary in order to
> validate the integrity of the database at runtime.
> 
> As of about the upstream 4.15 version of Linux, the kernel's wireless
> developers had determined that future updates to the wireless
> regulatory database may require format changes that would be
> incompatible with the existing CRDA implementation. Further, Linux
> kernel changes over the years now enabled the kernel to load firmware
> images without requiring a userland helper like CRDA. So, the Linux
> kernel wireless developers implemented an in-kernel replacement for
> CRDA. This includes code to validate the wireless regulatory database
> against a signature that is built into the kernel itself.
> 
> SITUATION
> 
> At present, Fedora kernels are configured to use the in-kernel
> wireless
> regulatory database loader. If the database is not found or is not
> signed with the key built into the kernel, then boot time messages
> appear, creating the appearance of a problem. For now, there is no
> actual problem. Fedora systems continue to ship with CRDA, which
> continues to perform its original duties with no effective problem as
> of yet. The harmless "error" messages during boot are the only
> symptom.
> (NOTE: the latest Fedora CRDA package works around this issue,
> eliminating the spurious "error" messages at boot time.)
> 
> For now, there is no emergency. We could continue to ship CRDA as-is.
> My concern is that eventually, CRDA may no longer be a viable option
> for future regulatory database updates. In that case, it would seem
> to
> be better to change now than to do so in a rush later.
> 
> Also, replacing the combined CRDA/wireless-regdb "crda" package with
> a
> new "wireless-regdb" package removes a wart from our package
> collection
> and replaces it with a package that is simpler and easier to
> understand
> how it is built. That will be one less "why did they do that?" item
> hanging around in Fedora.
> 
> ACTION IN PROGRESS
> 
> I have created a wireless-regdb package for Fedora. It simply
> installs
> the wireless regulatory database binary into /usr/lib/firmware,
> alongside it's pre-existing detached signature. This package includes
> a
> version of the setregdomain script that is virtually identical to
> what
> is in the existing crda package. This package has been approved for
> Fedora, but I recently imported the SRPM to the Fedora repository.
> (htt
> ps://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1598921)
> 
> I have been testing with the above package for a couple of weeks, and
> the user experience is identical to using the crda solution. Given
> this
> success, I believe that the best option will be to push this package
> with Obsoletes 

Re: Prioritizing ~/.local/bin over /usr/bin on the PATH

[Howard Howell]

On Tue, 2018-06-12 at 12:10 +0100, Tomasz Kłoczko wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 at 12:28, Miro Hrončok 
> wrote:
> [..]
> > See the change description.
> 
> OK So here is quoted original email with proposal.
> 
> "I'd like to propose putting the ~/.local/bin in front of the
> /usr/bin on
> the PATH.
> 
> Currently /usr/bin has priority over ~/.local/bin, which causes a
> [bug]
> where the old system-installed executable written in Python (from
> /usr/bin) is launched, but it finds new Python sources (installed
> into
> $HOME) which it doesn't work with and crashes.
> 
> [bug] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1571650
> 
> I believe the current configuration breaks the intuitive expectation
> that things installed closer to the user should take priority. That's
> for example how it works with Python.
> Interestingly, ubuntu and opensuse do not have ~/.local/bin on their
> PATH (though Ubuntu has ~/bin) so we can't take guidance there.
> 
> Does anyone see a reason not to prioritize ~/.local/bin over
> /usr/bin?"
> 
> At the end of the proposal is the question about potential reasons
> why
> this change should not be included, and answer on exactly this
> question has been provided in this thread several times in different
> forms and by more than one person.
> 
> Most of us knows that sometimes it is really hard to find answer on
> some question or prove some theories/thesis. Logick gives perfect
> tool
> to open such hard nuts sometimes instantly.
> https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Negation_of_Conditional_implies_Negation_o
> f_Consequent
> So called CPA (Conditional Proof Assumption) says that If it is hard
> to answer on the original question straight just try to negate
> original formula/postulat/question than continue work on negated one.
> I'll add to this thread kind of CPA question:
> 
> What this change fixes, improves or makes possible in context of
> pure/only distribution resources?
> 
> Second part of above question is really crucial. What started
> #1571650
> wend to "proposal" of the change of the distribution resources
> behaviour.
> Was it correct step? What if this ticket would be about "unexpected
> behavior" of the python in case of installing something in /opt? What
> about other prefixes? Does "positive reaction" on such "needs" should
> imply/justify opening discussion on fiddling in distribution OOTB
> $PATH???
> IMO definitely *NO*!!!
> 
> Just FTR: So far I was unable to find in any of the fredesktop.org or
> other specs (https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/) things like
> requirement use /usr/local{bi,sbin} or ~.local/bin in $PATH (and
> especially on the front of thes env variable). I would be really glad
> to find original reason why paths like /usr/local{bi,sbin} have been
> added to OOTB $PATH and why someone has been thinking that those
> paths
> should be added on the front of the $PATH.
> 
> I can only guess that most of the people reading this thread and
> still
> not able to identify any danger from security angle may be thinking
> that fiddling in the $PATH isn't dangerous or it may be dangerous
> only
> when someone is typing some commands into shell prompt.
> If it is like this this impression is wrong and I'm 100% sure at
> least
> few people (not only me) commenting in this thread could have no any
> difficulty to show that it is really only impression.
> 
> kloczek
> -- 
> Tomasz Kłoczko | LinkedIn: http://lnkd.in/FXPWxH
> ___
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> sts.fedoraproject.org/message/EI62XGJANQ4ZX3XC3MDQXY5T2UZLQGNY/
I haven't followed all of this thread, too self busy.  However there is
a security argument.  If you have a local executable directory, then
the capability for malicious software to attach is wide open for that
user, whatever their privelege level might be.

Most businesses that have linux in their suite, won't want a ~/.bin
anywhere in their organization.

Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Mon, 2018-02-05 at 16:39 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On 02/05/2018 01:35 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > My eyes hurt
> > after a few hours trying to find the smaller and darker default
> > cursors.
> 
> Do you know that you can simply increase the size of the cursors?
> 
> dconf write /org/gnome/desktop/interface/cursor-size 48
> 
> I swear I saw it in one of GNOME GUI tools but I can't find it now 
> (doesn't seem to be in Settings or Gnome-tweaks)
> ___
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You are on my hero's list.  Somebody figure out how to make this part
of gnome-tweak-tool, PLEASE, or on the accessibility menu.

Thank YOU!!!
Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Sat, 2018-02-03 at 22:58 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 02/03/2018 05:58 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > Latest finding...
> > running gpartd, which I wanted to use to reformat an SD card for
> > use 
> > with a raspberry PI, drops me out to login immediately.
> > attached is the latest journalctl after the third attempt.
> > I clicked on gpartd at 17:36:14, and ended up logging back in at
> > 17:37:01
> > 
> > I don't know if this helps, but gpartd seems to fire the issue
> > every time.
> 
> Did you try switching the cursor theme back to the default to see if 
> that makes a difference?  Also, be aware that there's an issue with
> the 
> Places menu extension that gets triggered in various ways which might
> be 
> relevant here.
> 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1538493
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Hi, Samuel,
I did switch the cursors back using gnome-tweak-tool.  While
doing that I noticed that there was no selection for the shell theme,
not even the default nor was default or Adwaita available in the pull
down.  I installed the only one I could find from dnf, which was
selene.  Once that was done, the alarm ( a triangle with an "!" in it)
disappeared, and both default and Adwaita appeared in the pull down.  I
selected default.  It appears that the default setup doesn't actually
load the shell theme.

So far, so good, but I really miss the gamma.gold cursors which
are much easier for me to see and use.

No problems so far.  If it goes one week, I will again attempt
the Gamma.Gold cursors because I need the visibility.  My eyes hurt
after a few hours trying to find the smaller and darker default
cursors.

Regards,
Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Thu, 2018-02-01 at 09:08 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-01-31 at 09:43 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> > On Wed, 2018-01-31 at 14:14 +0100, Olivier Fourdan wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Olivier Fourdan <ofourdan@redhat
> > > .com> wrote:
> > > > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session[1715]: gnome-session-
> > > > binary[1715]: WARNING: App 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited
> > > > with 
> > > > > Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: Window
> > > > > manager error: Could not find cursor. Perhaps set
> > > > > XCURSOR_PATH
> > > > 
> > > > Interesting, that could be the problem! gnome-shell is both a
> > > > Wayland compositor (thus the display server) and an X11 window
> > > > manager.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Are you using a custom cursor theme or the default “Adwaita”
> > > cursor theme? 
> > >  
> > > > I think we should keep those discussions, including these
> > > > important bits, in the issue you filed upstream (https://gitlab
> > > > gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/9) and not in a downstream
> > > > mailing list :)
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > And... I got confused by multiple issues being reported in the
> > > same mail thread, that issue was filed by Przemek, so probably
> > > different from yours...
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > Olivier
> > > 
> > OK!  I did change the cursor theme.  According to gnome-tweak-tool, 
> > it is Gamma.Gold.  I have some vision problems and this looked good
> > to me.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Les H
> > ___
> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> I replied back to this message because the laters ones all are either
> mine or another thread within this topic...
> Olivier,
>   I left my system logged in, and several journal entries occured
> while I slept.  Then today there are lots of messages about
> evolution. And after being on the system for only 20 minutes, I got
> logged off again.
> 
>   I captured the messages to a file (744 lines)  and have
> attached it here.
> 
> Regards,
> Les H
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Latest finding...
running gpartd, which I wanted to use to reformat an SD card for use
with a raspberry PI, drops me out to login immediately.
attached is the latest journalctl after the third attempt.
I clicked on gpartd at 17:36:14, and ended up logging back in at
17:37:01

I don't know if this helps, but gpartd seems to fire the issue every
time.

Regards,
Les HFeb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Faile

Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Wed, 2018-01-31 at 09:43 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-01-31 at 14:14 +0100, Olivier Fourdan wrote:
> > Hi
> > 
> > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Olivier Fourdan <ofourdan@redhat.c
> > om> wrote:
> > > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session[1715]: gnome-session-
> > > binary[1715]: WARNING: App 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with 
> > > > Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: Window
> > > > manager error: Could not find cursor. Perhaps set XCURSOR_PATH
> > > 
> > > Interesting, that could be the problem! gnome-shell is both a
> > > Wayland compositor (thus the display server) and an X11 window
> > > manager.
> > > 
> > 
> > Are you using a custom cursor theme or the default “Adwaita” cursor
> > theme? 
> >  
> > > I think we should keep those discussions, including these
> > > important bits, in the issue you filed upstream (https://gitlabgn
> > > ome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/9) and not in a downstream
> > > mailing list :)
> > > 
> > 
> > And... I got confused by multiple issues being reported in the same
> > mail thread, that issue was filed by Przemek, so probably different
> > from yours...
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Olivier
> > 
> OK!  I did change the cursor theme.  According to gnome-tweak-tool,
> it is Gamma.Gold.  I have some vision problems and this looked good
> to me.
> 
> Regards,
> Les H
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I replied back to this message because the laters ones all are either
mine or another thread within this topic...
Olivier,
I left my system logged in, and several journal entries occured
while I slept.  Then today there are lots of messages about evolution.
And after being on the system for only 20 minutes, I got logged off
again.

I captured the messages to a file (744 lines)  and have
attached it here.

Regards,
Les HFeb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 02:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 03:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/var/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f83
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 04:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children of 
/tmp/systemd-private-06b6f836b50
Feb 01 05:19:43 school gsd-housekeepin[2069]: Failed to enumerate children 

Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Wed, 2018-01-31 at 14:14 +0100, Olivier Fourdan wrote:
> Hi
> 
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Olivier Fourdan  > wrote:
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session[1715]: gnome-session-
> > binary[1715]: WARNING: App 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with 
> > > Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: Window
> > > manager error: Could not find cursor. Perhaps set XCURSOR_PATH
> > 
> > Interesting, that could be the problem! gnome-shell is both a
> > Wayland compositor (thus the display server) and an X11 window
> > manager.
> > 
> 
> Are you using a custom cursor theme or the default “Adwaita” cursor
> theme? 
>  
> > I think we should keep those discussions, including these important
> > bits, in the issue you filed upstream (https://gitlabgnome.org/GNOM
> > E/gnome-shell/issues/9) and not in a downstream mailing list :)
> > 
> 
> And... I got confused by multiple issues being reported in the same
> mail thread, that issue was filed by Przemek, so probably different
> from yours...
> 
> Cheers,
> Olivier
> 
OK!  I did change the cursor theme.  According to gnome-tweak-tool, it
is Gamma.Gold.  I have some vision problems and this looked good to me.

Regards,
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Wed, 2018-01-31 at 13:58 +0100, Olivier Fourdan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> What you logs tells is:
> 
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Howard Howell <hlhow...@pacbell.net
> > wrote:
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school evolution-alarm[2297]: Error reading events
> > from display: Broken pipeJan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-
> > software[2301]: Error reading events from display: Broken pipe
> 
> Wayland native applications exiting with broken pipe, means the
> Wayland compositor (gnome-shell is dead)
>  
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session-binary[1715]: WARNING: App
> > 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with code 1
> 
> gnome-session tells us that gnome-shell is gone
>  
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session[1715]: gnome-session-
> > binary[1715]: WARNING: App 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with 
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: Window
> > manager error: Could not find cursor. Perhaps set XCURSOR_PATH
> 
> Interesting, that could be the problem! gnome-shell is both a Wayland
> compositor (thus the display server) and an X11 window manager.
>  
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: Fatal server
> > error:
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: (EE) failed
> > to read Wayland events: Broken pipe
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: (EE)
> 
> Then Xwayland exits with “broken pipe”, like the other Wayland
> clients, because the Wayland compositor is, well ,dead.
>  
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session-binary[1715]: Unrecoverable
> > failure in required component org.gnome.Shell.desktop
> 
> gnome-session says something goes really wrong...
>  
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school
> > org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.MediaKeys.desktop[2048]:
> > xcb_connection_has_error() returned true
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: gsd-housekeeping:
> > Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X s
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school gsd-print-notif[2013]: gsd-print-
> > notifications: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable)
> > Jan 31 01:14:08 school at-spi-bus-launcher[1825]: XIO:  fatal IO
> > error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":
> >  ESCOC
> 
> And now, the X11 clients (hence depending on the X server, thus
> Xwayland) all quit as well, because the X server (Xwayland) is dead,
> because the Wayland compositor is dead...
>  
> > This doesn't tell me anything, but I'll bet some of you systems
> > guys can see through it to see the root cause, or at least a good
> > trail to follow.
> 
> I think we should keep those discussions, including these important
> bits, in the issue you filed upstream (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME
> /gnome-shell/issues/9) and not in a downstream mailing list :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Olivier
> 
> 
> 
Do you want me to repost at that address?
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Wed, 2018-01-31 at 01:28 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-01-30 at 10:15 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> > On Tue, 2018-01-30 at 10:49 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> > > On 01/29/2018 09:33 PM, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote:
> > > > Please see my earlier post in this thread regarding how to get
> > > > a 
> > > > stacktrace out of coredumpctl
> > > 
> > > This is a great debugging harness; thanks for pointing it out as
> > > I 
> > > didn't know about it.
> > > 
> > > I am currently reporting my pan-crashing-Wayland crashing issue
> > > on 
> > > gnome.org---but in the true Heisenbug fashion it stopped
> > > crashing,
> > > so
> > > I 
> > > can't reproduce it now. It was crashing almost every time I used
> > > the
> > > pan 
> > > newsreader (the three crash dumps I submitted were just few days
> > > apart 
> > > in my coredumpctl records), but now they're as solid as rock.
> > > 
> > > I have to say that the GNOME developers responded almost
> > > immediately, 
> > > and I feel stupid for not being able to demonstrate replication.
> > > I
> > > am 
> > > really curious about the nature of this bug: it must be some
> > > weird 
> > > interaction---perhaps related to memory use or something like
> > > that.
> > > ___
> > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-
> > > le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > 
> > I had the same experience.  I loaded all the tools that were
> > recommended, and the crashes seem to have stopped ( that is no
> > crashes
> > since I loaded all the tools.) Maybe there is a hidden fix in the
> > debug
> > stuff.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Les H
> > ___
> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> 
> spoke too soon.  Just got logged out.  Had just finished looking up
> some info on bitcoin on the web, then closed the browser, moved the
> mouse toward the top annunciation in the top banner of the desktop. 
> Screen went dark and dropped me out to the login window.
> 
> Checking logs and backtrace to see if I can find anything useful...
> Later post if I do.
> 
> Regards,
> Les H
> ___
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Well, Journalctl shows the following.  
Jan 31 00:00:00 school evolution-alarm[2297]:
/builddir/build/BUILD/evolution-3.24.6/src/calendar/alarm-
notify/alarm.c:251:
Jan 31 00:19:56 school sol.desktop[24828]: xkbcommon: ERROR: Key
"" added to modifier map for multiple modifiers; Usi
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /var/tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /var/tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /var/tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /var/tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187e85e
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187e85e
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187e85e
Jan 31 00:59:38 school gsd-housekeepin[2045]: Failed to enumerate
children of /tmp/systemd-private-3d6dfe8707be46aa9187e85e
Jan 31 01:09:51 school org.gnome.Calculator.desktop[25129]: xkbcommon:
ERROR: Key "" added to modifier map for multip
Jan 31 01:10:45 school gnome-calculato[25129]: gtk_container_remove:
assertion 'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
Jan 31 01:14:08 school evolution-alarm[2297]: Error reading events from
display: Broken pipe
Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-software[2301]: Error reading events from
display: Broken pipe
Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session-binary[1715]: WARNING: App
'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with code 1
Jan 31 01:14:08 school gnome-session[1715]: gnome-session-binary[1715]: 
WARNING: App 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with 
Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.Shell.desktop[1785]: Window manager
error: Could not find cursor. Perhaps set XCURSOR_PATH
Jan 31 01:14:08 school org.gnome.

Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Tue, 2018-01-30 at 10:15 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-01-30 at 10:49 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> > On 01/29/2018 09:33 PM, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote:
> > > Please see my earlier post in this thread regarding how to get a 
> > > stacktrace out of coredumpctl
> > 
> > This is a great debugging harness; thanks for pointing it out as I 
> > didn't know about it.
> > 
> > I am currently reporting my pan-crashing-Wayland crashing issue on 
> > gnome.org---but in the true Heisenbug fashion it stopped crashing,
> > so
> > I 
> > can't reproduce it now. It was crashing almost every time I used
> > the
> > pan 
> > newsreader (the three crash dumps I submitted were just few days
> > apart 
> > in my coredumpctl records), but now they're as solid as rock.
> > 
> > I have to say that the GNOME developers responded almost
> > immediately, 
> > and I feel stupid for not being able to demonstrate replication. I
> > am 
> > really curious about the nature of this bug: it must be some weird 
> > interaction---perhaps related to memory use or something like that.
> > ___
> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> 
> I had the same experience.  I loaded all the tools that were
> recommended, and the crashes seem to have stopped ( that is no
> crashes
> since I loaded all the tools.) Maybe there is a hidden fix in the
> debug
> stuff.
> 
> Regards,
> Les H
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
spoke too soon.  Just got logged out.  Had just finished looking up
some info on bitcoin on the web, then closed the browser, moved the
mouse toward the top annunciation in the top banner of the desktop. 
Screen went dark and dropped me out to the login window.

Checking logs and backtrace to see if I can find anything useful...
Later post if I do.

Regards,
Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Tue, 2018-01-30 at 10:49 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On 01/29/2018 09:33 PM, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote:
> > Please see my earlier post in this thread regarding how to get a 
> > stacktrace out of coredumpctl
> 
> This is a great debugging harness; thanks for pointing it out as I 
> didn't know about it.
> 
> I am currently reporting my pan-crashing-Wayland crashing issue on 
> gnome.org---but in the true Heisenbug fashion it stopped crashing, so
> I 
> can't reproduce it now. It was crashing almost every time I used the
> pan 
> newsreader (the three crash dumps I submitted were just few days
> apart 
> in my coredumpctl records), but now they're as solid as rock.
> 
> I have to say that the GNOME developers responded almost
> immediately, 
> and I feel stupid for not being able to demonstrate replication. I
> am 
> really curious about the nature of this bug: it must be some weird 
> interaction---perhaps related to memory use or something like that.
> ___
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> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

I had the same experience.  I loaded all the tools that were
recommended, and the crashes seem to have stopped ( that is no crashes
since I loaded all the tools.) Maybe there is a hidden fix in the debug
stuff.

Regards,
Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Thu, 2018-01-25 at 09:51 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-01-24 at 14:29 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> > On 01/23/2018 06:56 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > > Due to that last line, issued su and password and ran it again:
> > > # lshw
> > > Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> > 
> > ok, great---so now do 'gdb lshw', type 'r' in gdb, and see where it
> > crashes.
> > 
> > You may need to debuginfo-install few packages if gdb says it can't
> > find 
> > debugging symbols, and you may need to install also some -source 
> > packages because the recent changes in packaging and dnf fail to do
> > so. 
> > Then, report whether the crash happens reliably in a single
> > location,
> > or 
> > is random as it would be if your hardware is flaky.
> > ___
> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> 
> It did not crash.  Here are the last 2 lines it output:
> 
> configuration: autonegotiation=off broadcast=yes driver=tun
> driverversion=1.6 duplex=full link=no multicast=yes port=twisted pair
> speed=10Mbit/s
> WARNING: output may be incomplete or inaccurate, you should run this
> program as super-user.
> [Inferior 1 (process 3063) exited normally]
> 
> The things I would point out are that Terminal is in a window, and
> when
> that crash occured I had just run the command, and it may not have
> terminated fully.  The command lshw seems to be multithreaded.
> 
> Regards,
> Les H
> ___
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Now I'm in a new and apparently unresolvable loop for debug info for
glibc.  The program gdb when running lshw needs glibc-2.25-
12.fc26.x86_64.

But the install won't pick up that version.  Here is the exchange with
me (gdb) run
Starting program: /usr/sbin/lshw 
Missing separate debuginfos, use: dnf debuginfo-install glibc-2.25-
12.fc26.x86_64
USB 
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x772c1b70 in feof () from /lib64/libc.so.6
(gdb) exit
Undefined command: "exit".  Try "help".
(gdb) quit
A debugging session is active.

Inferior 1 [process 5734] will be killed.

Quit anyway? (y or n) y
[root@school lesh]# dnf debuginfo-install glibc-2.25-12.fc26.x86_64
enabling updates-debuginfo repository
enabling fedora-debuginfo repository
enabling rpmfusion-free-updates-debuginfo repository
enabling rpmfusion-free-debuginfo repository
enabling rpmfusion-nonfree-updates-debuginfo repository
enabling rpmfusion-nonfree-debuginfo repository
Last metadata expiration check: 0:46:46 ago on Thu 25 Jan 2018 11:11:19
AM PST.
Package glibc-debuginfo-2.23.1-11.fc24.x86_64 is already installed,
skipping.
Dependencies resolved.
Nothing to do.
Complete!
[root@school lesh]# gdb lshw
GNU gdb (GDB) Fedora 8.0.1-33.fc26
Copyright (C) 2017 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl
.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show
copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu".
Type "show configuration" for configuration details.
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>.
Find the GDB manual and other documentation resources online at:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/documentation/>.
For help, type "help".
Type "apropos word" to search for commands related to "word"...
Reading symbols from lshw...Reading symbols from
/usr/lib/debug/usr/sbin/lshw.debug...done.
done.
(gdb) run
Starting program: /usr/sbin/lshw 
Missing separate debuginfos, use: dnf debuginfo-install glibc-2.25-
12.fc26.x86_64
USB 
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x772c1b70 in feof () from /lib64/libc.so.6
(gdb) 
and gdb running lshw:



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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Wed, 2018-01-24 at 14:29 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On 01/23/2018 06:56 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > Due to that last line, issued su and password and ran it again:
> > # lshw
> > Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> 
> ok, great---so now do 'gdb lshw', type 'r' in gdb, and see where it
> crashes.
> 
> You may need to debuginfo-install few packages if gdb says it can't
> find 
> debugging symbols, and you may need to install also some -source 
> packages because the recent changes in packaging and dnf fail to do
> so. 
> Then, report whether the crash happens reliably in a single location,
> or 
> is random as it would be if your hardware is flaky.
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
It did not crash.  Here are the last 2 lines it output:

configuration: autonegotiation=off broadcast=yes driver=tun
driverversion=1.6 duplex=full link=no multicast=yes port=twisted pair
speed=10Mbit/s
WARNING: output may be incomplete or inaccurate, you should run this
program as super-user.
[Inferior 1 (process 3063) exited normally]

The things I would point out are that Terminal is in a window, and when
that crash occured I had just run the command, and it may not have
terminated fully.  The command lshw seems to be multithreaded.

Regards,
Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Tue, 2018-01-23 at 19:52 -0500, Jared K. Smith wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Howard Howell <hlhow...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
> > Due to that last line, issued su and password and ran it again:
> > 
> > # lshw
> > 
> > Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> > 
> > #
> 
> Due to the fact that you're having segfaults in command-line programs
> as well, I'm tempted to say you've got a bigger (hardware?) problem
> on your hands, and that Wayland crashing is just a symptom of that
> larger issue.
> 
> --
> Jared Smith
> 
That's the first real crash from command line.
Regards,
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Tue, 2018-01-23 at 12:35 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 01/23/2018 12:22 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > I thought there was a tool to list installed boards, but can't
> > find it.  Any thoughts there, other than opening up the system and
> > getting the label information?
> 
> lshw and/or lshw-gui
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Tried invoking the command.  Got the prompt to install it, entered the
su password, and got this response.

description: Computer
width: 64 bits
capabilities: smp vsyscall32
  *-core
   description: Motherboard
   physical id: 0
 *-memory
  description: System memory
  physical id: 0
  size: 15GiB
 *-cpu
  product: AMD FX(tm)-8300 Eight-Core Processor
  vendor: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD]
  physical id: 1
  bus info: cpu@0
  size: 1450MHz
  capacity: 3300MHz
  width: 64 bits
  capabilities: fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr pae mce
cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht
syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp x86-64 constant_tsc rep_good
nopl nonstop_tsc cpuid extd_apicid aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq monitor
ssse3 fma cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 popcnt aes xsave avx f16c lahf_lm
cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch
osvw ibs xop skinit wdt lwp fma4 tce nodeid_msr tbm topoext
perfctr_core perfctr_nb cpb hw_pstate retpoline retpoline_amd vmmcall
bmi1 arat npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save tsc_scale vmcb_clean flushbyasid
decodeassists pausefilter pfthreshold cpufreq
 *-pci:0
  description: Host bridge
  product: RD9x0/RX980 Host Bridge
  vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
  physical id: 100
  bus info: pci@:00:00.0
  version: 02
  width: 32 bits
  clock: 33MHz
*-pci:0
 description: PCI bridge
 product: RD890/RD9x0/RX980 PCI to PCI bridge (PCI Express
GFX port 0)
 vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
 physical id: 2
 bus info: pci@:00:02.0
 version: 00
 width: 32 bits
 clock: 33MHz
 capabilities: pci normal_decode bus_master cap_list
 configuration: driver=pcieport
 resources: irq:24 ioport:e000(size=4096) memory:fea0-
feaf ioport:c000(size=268435456)
   *-display
description: VGA compatible controller
product: Oland [Radeon HD 8570 / R7 240/340 OEM]
vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
physical id: 0
bus info: pci@:01:00.0
version: 00
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: vga_controller bus_master cap_list rom
configuration: driver=radeon latency=0
resources: irq:47 memory:c000-cfff
memory:fea0-fea3 ioport:e000(size=256) memory:c-d
   *-multimedia
description: Audio device
product: Cape Verde/Pitcairn HDMI Audio [Radeon HD
7700/7800 Series]
vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
physical id: 0.1
bus info: pci@:01:00.1
version: 00
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=snd_hda_intel latency=0
resources: irq:49 memory:fea6-fea63fff
*-pci:1
 description: PCI bridge
 product: RD890/RD9x0/RX980 PCI to PCI bridge (PCI Express
GPP Port 0)
 vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
 physical id: 4
 bus info: pci@:00:04.0
 version: 00
 width: 32 bits
 clock: 33MHz
 capabilities: pci normal_decode bus_master cap_list
 configuration: driver=pcieport
 resources: irq:24 ioport:d000(size=4096) memory:fe90-
fe9f ioport:d000(size=1048576)
   *-network
description: Ethernet interface
product: RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
Controller
vendor: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
physical id: 0
bus info: pci@:02:00.0
logical name: enp2s0
version: 0c
serial: d8:50:e6:5b:cd:af
size: 100Mbit/s
capacity: 1Gbit/s
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: bus_master cap_list ethernet physical tp
mii 10bt 10bt-fd 100bt 100bt-fd 1000bt 1000bt-fd autonegotiation
  

Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Mon, 2018-01-22 at 19:53 +, Tom Hughes wrote:
> On 22/01/18 15:58, Adam Williamson wrote:
> 
> > I have a dual monitor setup with both monitors rotated, using an
> > NVIDIA
> > adapter (9600 GT). Works fine, uses Wayland. Again, you need to be
> > *very specific* about graphics issues. They are very often very
> > specific to the exact hardware in use - down to the model of the
> > graphics card and which specific outputs are used.
> 
> 1 x NVIDIA Corporation G84 [GeForce 8600 GT]
> 
> with DVI-I-1 connected to 2560x1600 panel
> and DVI-I-2 connected to 1600x1200 panel rotated right
> 
> 1 x NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 210]
> 
> with DVI-I-1-3 connected to 1600x1200 panel rotated right
> 
> I can't see any obvious indication in the logs of why it fell back
> but 
> if it's not rotation maybe it's having multiple cards?
> 
> Tom
> 
> -- 
> Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
> http://compton.nu/
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My setup is as follows:
AMD Fx(tm)-8300 eight-core processor x8
64-bit
AMD Oland graphics
Gnome 3.24.2
976GB disk
Dual monitors
ViewSonic 23" Primary
Samsung Electric Company 23"
Fedora 26
Wayland (normal login, but Xorg login has similar issues)
Programs experiencing issues:
PixyMon after rebuild crashes
Gscheme simply goes away
System updated at each prompt, including today.
Running Gschem by invoking it from a terminal provides no
unusual information. Tried on both monitors.
LibreOffice Calc has died once or twice, not sure, can't repeat
that.
Occasionally rapid mouse movement to the Activities bar causes
logout.  Can't get repeatable to determine if any application causes
it.
Frequently my use has up to 20 tabs open in firefox, evolution
up (like now), and one or two other applications open simultaneously,
like now I have settings showing the display info.

Checking jounalctl and dmesg has not revealed anything
pertinent.  Can you gentlefolk suggest anyplace else to look?  Or is
there any more information you need?

I thought there was a tool to list installed boards, but can't
find it.  Any thoughts there, other than opening up the system and
getting the label information?

Regards,
Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Mon, 2018-01-22 at 18:57 -0500, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> On 21 January 2018 at 14:42, Stephen John Smoogen <smo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On 21 January 2018 at 14:06, Howard Howell <hlhow...@pacbell.net>
> > wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2018-01-21 at 15:25 +0100, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> > > > Folks, please move this discussion to users@lists.fedoraproject
> > > > .org.
> > > > ___
> > > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject
> > > > .org
> > > 
> > > HI, Igor,
> > > I posted here on purpose.  Users cannot change the
> > > direction of
> > > Linux, only you guys, the developers, have that capability.  I
> > > like the
> > > direction the discussion has taken. I want the group to think
> > > responsibily about the users.  Not just the technology, because
> > > technology that is not useful on a widely distributed operating
> > > system
> > > is not beneficial to anyone.
> > > 
> > 
> > Posting a diatribe to the devel list usually has the opposite
> > effect
> > than getting people to think about things.
> > 
> 
> I am apologizing to the readers of the list and to Les. My comments
> were not helpful and were rather hurtful in several parts. I was
> wrong
> to have compared the post to a drunk with a broken bottle.
> 
> 
> 
No worries, Stephen, 
I have sometimes experienced hoof in mouth disease myself. 
Maybe this is kind of one of those times, for me, too.  I just really
really like Fedora.  I have been with the system for a long time, at
least since 5 or something like that.  I cannot contribute much, but I
do what I can.

Regards,
Les H
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Re: Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

On Sun, 2018-01-21 at 15:25 +0100, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> Folks, please move this discussion to us...@lists.fedoraproject.org.
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HI, Igor,
I posted here on purpose.  Users cannot change the direction of
Linux, only you guys, the developers, have that capability.  I like the
direction the discussion has taken. I want the group to think
responsibily about the users.  Not just the technology, because
technology that is not useful on a widely distributed operating system
is not beneficial to anyone.

As to my misspelling of Wayland, that is ignorance on my part. 
I regret that, but as they say, it's on the internet, and immortal.

Regards,
Les H
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Wyland is a disaster

[Howard Howell]

Hi, guys,
I'm sorry, but wyland is a disaster for me.  I do work on lots
of different software platforms, and things are just not working well. 
They kind-of-work, which is the really worst condition one can have. 
My new video board won't work with wyland, my pixycam software won't
work with wyland, some other graphics have changed colors, or don't
fully resolve with wyland, and finding compatible third party products
which was tough enough on linux to begin with is now virtually
impossible.  The web compatible products work, like MPLABX from
microchip, but occasionally crash.  Gscheme crashes randomly, and there
are others I haven't tried recently, but which I expect to have issues
supporting.

Whatever the impetus was to change, it must have been driven by
somebody that doesn't really use the system.  I have tried starting as
an Xorg login, but somehow that seems less than operating for similar
reasons, all surrounding graphics I suspect.  So whether it is wyland
or the new graphics driver, kind-of-working is not a good deal.  Yes, I
can change distributions, and if that is the only solution, I will, but
isn't that contradictory to the idea of becoming the OS of choice?

I expected that all these nagging issues would be worked out by
now.  But there is no sign of improvement.  Worse I am not getting my
stuff done.  Granted I am just a hobbyiest, but doesn't this also
affect your more professional users?

Regards,
Les H
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Issues in F26 that bug me

[Howard Howell]

Hi, guys,
There are a few issues that bug me about Fedora, up to the
current F26 version I am running.  I know about bugzilla, but I want to
mention them here first in case I have something set up wrong and it's
me, not fedora.

1.  The software update notification... When I click on it and
it brings up the window, the window comes up basically empty.  I click
on button to see what updates there are, and the window takes a very
long time, then shows the list of packages, but the button to click on
to Reboot and Install disappears. If you close the window, the
notification comment block goes away, but if you click on the toolbar,
it will come up and is still there.  If you click on the notification
again, the window will come up and is formatted differently, the list
is gone, but the reboot and install button is back.  If you close the
window this time, the notification disappears.  In other words, you can
accept the update blindly, or list it, wait a long time, check the
list, close the window, wait a bit, reopen the notification via the
tool bar, then hit reboot and install.  Please tell me how to fix this,
or where to file the bug.  It should not be this complicated.

2.  When I want to report something or check my system status
using the setup/details window, I cannot copy the machine information. 
Every bug report, and most messages here require that information.  why
isn't it copy capable?

3.  Wyland!!??!!!  I liked X.  It worked!  Wyland has some
quirks, including the inability to run some kinds of video cards, like
Nvidia, and while it was brutal before, at least you could get it
working.  Now  So I have  a better video card setting in my lab,
and a powersupply to support it and I haven't installed it because it
is not supported yet.  I know it is not your fault when manufacturers
(those idiots) refuse to reveal their instruction set or communications
architecture, but shouldn't some form of industry standards
organization be created to set up some standards so new systems could
be used across OS's and platforms?  Maybe RedHat could initiate that,
but I suspect Microsoft would be adamant about not opening the Kimono.

Thanks,
Les H
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update craziness

[Howard Howell]

Hi, guys,
Running F26 on AMD FX8300 system.
Have been keeping my system updated every time the notification
pops up with the reboot and install.

Today had a bit of cookiness happen on the web, so I decided to
do a manual dnf update from the CLI.  386 updates
It's still finalizing, then I will reboot, but what is
happening that the system doesn't appear to be up to date?

Regards,
Les H
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Re: upgrade failed

[Howard Howell]

On Sat, 2017-09-30 at 02:51 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> Am 30.09.2017 um 01:53 schrieb Howard Howell:
> > installing package ncurses-libs-6.0-8.20170212.fc26.i686 needs
> > 22458368
> > on the / filesystem
> > installing package json-c-0.12.1-2.fc26.i686 needs 21594112 on the
> > /
> > filesystem
> 
> well, don't mess up your system until your disk is full and that is 
> hardly a "development topic"
I didn't mess up my system, I don't put stuff in /.  If a set of
software is putting stuff in /, that needs to be paid attention, and
corrected in the chain.
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upgrade failed

[Howard Howell]

Hi, guys,
Backed up my system and tried the upgrade by clicking on the
software>>upgrade button.  It failed.

Here is the output from the notification box:

Detailed errors from the package manager follow:

Error running transaction: installing package glibc-all-langpacks-2.25-
10.fc26.x86_64 needs 61677568 on the / filesystem
installing package adobe-source-han-sans-cn-fonts-1.004-3.fc26.noarch
needs 5804032 on the / filesystem
installing package mrpt-doc-1.4.0-1.fc26.noarch needs 203509760 on the
/ filesystem
installing package libwebp-0.6.0-2.fc26.i686 needs 167936 on the /
filesystem
installing package pixman-0.34.0-3.fc26.i686 needs 958464 on the /
filesystem
installing package proj-4.9.3-2.fc26.i686 needs 688128 on the /
filesystem
installing package tcp_wrappers-libs-7.6-85.fc26.i686 needs 798720 on
the / filesystem
installing package gsm-1.0.17-1.fc26.i686 needs 860160 on the /
filesystem
installing package libsndfile-1.0.28-6.fc26.i686 needs 1404928 on the /
filesystem
installing package nss-softokn-freebl-3.32.0-1.2.fc26.i686 needs
1478656 on the / filesystem
installing package libcrypt-nss-2.25-10.fc26.i686 needs 1183744 on the
/ filesystem
installing package libdb-5.3.28-24.fc26.i686 needs 3289088 on the /
filesystem
installing package libsepol-2.6-2.fc26.i686 needs 2146304 on the /
filesystem
installing package libselinux-2.6-7.fc26.i686 needs 1998848 on the /
filesystem
installing package libmount-2.30.2-1.fc26.i686 needs 2523136 on the /
filesystem
installing package glib2-2.52.3-1.fc26.i686 needs 5894144 on the /
filesystem
installing package gstreamer1-1.12.2-1.fc26.i686 needs 8994816 on the /
filesystem
installing package harfbuzz-1.4.4-1.fc26.i686 needs 882 on the /
filesystem
installing package libglvnd-egl-1:0.2.999-
24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26.i686 needs 8990720 on the / filesystem
installing package mesa-libEGL-17.1.7-1.fc26.i686 needs 9248768 on the
/ filesystem
installing package mesa-libglapi-17.1.7-1.fc26.i686 needs 9306112 on
the / filesystem
installing package libglvnd-glx-1:0.2.999-
24.20170818git8d4d03f.fc26.i686 needs 9646080 on the / filesystem
installing package mesa-libGL-17.1.7-1.fc26.i686 needs 9801728 on the /
filesystem
installing package cairo-1.14.10-1.fc26.i686 needs 10874880 on the /
filesystem
installing package pango-1.40.12-1.fc26.i686 needs 11657216 on the /
filesystem
installing package lz4-libs-1.8.0-1.fc26.i686 needs 11685888 on the /
filesystem
installing package systemd-libs-233-6.fc26.i686 needs 13332480 on the /
filesystem
installing package dbus-libs-1:1.11.16-1.fc26.i686 needs 13393920 on
the / filesystem
installing package qt-1:4.8.7-28.fc26.i686 needs 28168192 on the /
filesystem
installing package qt-x11-1:4.8.7-28.fc26.i686 needs 51011584 on the /
filesystem
installing package qt-mobility-common-1.2.2-
0.26.20140317git169da60c.fc26.i686 needs 14217216 on the / filesystem
installing package qt-mobility-location-1.2.2-
0.26.20140317git169da60c.fc26.i686 needs 16404480 on the / filesystem
installing package qt-mobility-sensors-1.2.2-
0.26.20140317git169da60c.fc26.i686 needs 14770176 on the / filesystem
installing package dbusmenu-qt-0.9.3-0.12.20150604.fc26.i686 needs
14532608 on the / filesystem
installing package pulseaudio-libs-10.0-4.fc26.i686 needs 15450112 on
the / filesystem
installing package orc-0.4.27-1.fc26.i686 needs 15118336 on the /
filesystem
installing package libstdc++-devel-7.2.1-2.fc26.i686 needs 16551936 on
the / filesystem
installing package gstreamer1-plugins-base-1.12.2-1.fc26.i686 needs
21639168 on the / filesystem
installing package qtwebkit-2.3.4-16.fc26.i686 needs 97132544 on the /
filesystem
installing package alsa-plugins-pulseaudio-1.1.4-1.fc26.i686 needs
19890176 on the / filesystem
installing package sni-qt-0.2.6-8.fc26.i686 needs 2768 on the /
filesystem
installing package pam-1.3.0-2.fc26.i686 needs 21315584 on the /
filesystem
installing package krb5-libs-1.15.1-28.fc26.i686 needs 22863872 on the
/ filesystem
installing package libacl-2.2.52-15.fc26.i686 needs 21073920 on the /
filesystem
installing package libXScrnSaver-1.2.2-11.fc26.i686 needs 21094400 on
the / filesystem
installing package ncurses-compat-libs-6.0-8.20170212.fc26.i686 needs
22257664 on the / filesystem
installing package libbsd-0.8.3-3.fc26.i686 needs 21385216 on the /
filesystem
installing package libidn-1.33-2.fc26.i686 needs 21573632 on the /
filesystem
installing package libseccomp-2.3.2-1.fc26.i686 needs 21544960 on the /
filesystem
installing package ncurses-libs-6.0-8.20170212.fc26.i686 needs 22458368
on the / filesystem
installing package json-c-0.12.1-2.fc26.i686 needs 21594112 on the /
filesystem
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Re: missing credentials

[Howard Howell]

On Tue, 2016-12-13 at 09:44 +0100, Milan Crha wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-12-12 at 12:43 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > That sounds highly plausible. evolution currently shells out to gpg
> > which is pretty fragile, so it's not very surprising that some
> > issue
> > could cause it to hang forever. It needs to be rewritten to use
> > GPGME.
> 
>   Hi,
> I looked on GPGME sometime in the beginning of the year and it's
> missing some features the evolution(-data-server) uses. I do not
> recaal
> what exactly, I'm sorry. It's still just a front end for the gpg/ggp2
> binary, thus basically the same what the evolution-data-server does.
> 
> These things are run in a dedicated thread, thus they do not block
> the
> UI, only may result in an infinite wait for a response from the
> gpg/gpg2. It doesn't result in a timeout though. Being it about
> gpg/gpg2, I'd reference:
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769204
> 
> Being it about WebKit2 usage as such (the 3.22.x uses WebKit2, while
> 3.20.x used WebKit1), I'd reference for example:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1398806#c2
> 
>   Hope it helps,
>   Milan

The first one GNOME Bugzilla – Bug 769204 says:
Status: RESOLVED NOTGNOME

The second one  Bug 1398806 - Weird rendering for Evolution on
Wayland doesn't seem to apply.

In the past when evolution blocked on gpg messages it was because I
didn't have the correct url to the cert for the sig or encryption. 
could that still be the case here?

I have also noticed that now when I click reply, and then minimize the
evolution window, the reply no longer is interactive.  This is new
behavior with F25 because I could do that with all prior versions of
fedora.  But I suspect that some interaction with wayland/evolution is
the issue.

Regards,
Les H

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missing credentials

[Howard Howell]

HI, guys,
I have noticed that messages from Kevin Fenzi and Stephen
Gallagher do not load in evolution.  So I surmise that I am missing a
credential source or something.  Any guidelines... This seems to have
happened when I upgraded from F-24 via DNF if that makes any
difference.

I tried to reply to them privately, but evolution just hung up
and eventually gave me a time out error.

Regards,
Les H.
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade: SOLVED

[Howard Howell]

On Fri, 2016-12-02 at 03:05 +0200, Alexander Ploumistos wrote:
> I think you might be missing Google's key:
> https://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/
> 
> 
> 
> 
Thanks, got it.

Regards,
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade: SOLVED

[Howard Howell]

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 14:52 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 17:03 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> > This got me thinking if there's a common root cause that could be 
> > checked automatically? I didn't quite understand what exactly
> > happened 
> > in the affected packages to cause it.
> 
> No, they're usually all different little awkward packaging corner
> cases.
> 
> For instance, one common one in the F24 -> F25 upgrade involved the
> rpm
> python subpackages. These were called rpm-python and rpm-python3 in
> F24, but in F25 they were renamed to python2-rpm and python3-rpm . Of
> course, the F25 packages got lines like:
> 
> Obsoletes: rpm-python < %{version}-%{release}
> Provides: rpm-python = %{version}-%{release}
> 
> Obsoletes: rpm-python3 < %{version}-%{release}
> Provides: rpm-python3 = %{version}-%{release}
> 
> Unfortunately, the F24 stable 'rpm' package actually got *ahead* of
> the
> F25 stable rpm package for a while. So when you tried to run the
> upgrade, the obsoletion didn't kick in - because the F24 package
> *wasn't* "< %{version}-%{release}". But dnf couldn't keep the old
> rpm-
> python(3) package(s) around because then some other dependency chain
> wasn't satisfied (I forget the details). So it simply had no way to
> resolve the problem without removing everything that required rpm-
> python or rpm-python3 ...
> 
> But that's just one possible case, there have been many others.
> Packaging is hard. You can usually figure it out, if you dig into a
> bit; it *does* help to file bugs so the issues can be solved for
> others.
The rpm -e did in fact fix the issue.  The completeness solution posted
by John (I think that was who posted it) was a good idea.  However as
was pointed out, the package for Google-earth still has some issues.  I
need it to continue the development of the friends program, so I re-
installed it using dnf, and got the following error:
# dnf install google-earth
Last metadata expiration check: 0:46:41 ago on Thu Dec  1 15:46:43
2016.
Dependencies resolved.
===
=
 Package  ArchVersion   Repository 
Size
===
=
Installing:
 google-earth-stable  x86_64  6.0.3.2197-0  google-
earth   30 M

Transaction Summary
===
=
Install  1 Package

Total download size: 30 M
Installed size: 92 M
Is this ok [y/N]: y
Downloading Packages:
google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64.rpm 356 kB/s |  30
MB 01:27
-
---
Total   356 kB/s |  30
MB 01:27 
warning: /var/cache/dnf/google-earth-17f28a61f303b7a2/packages/google-
earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64.rpm: Header V4 DSA/SHA1 Signature, key
ID 7fac5991: NOKEY
The downloaded packages were saved in cache until the next successful
transaction.
You can remove cached packages by executing 'dnf clean packages'.
Error: Public key for google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64.rpm is
not installed

Still some work to do.  Is there any thing specific you believe I
should say in the bugzilla post?

Regards,
Les H
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 14:32 -0700, stan wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2016 11:32:33 -0800
> Howard Howell <hlhow...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hi, everyone,
> > I have been trying to upgrade my system from f24 to f25 using
> > the cli in the terminal.
> > 
> >   814  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25
> >   815  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25 --allowerasing
> >   816  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25 --allowerasing
> > --
> > nogpgcheck
> > 
> >   all run from superuser.
> > 
> >   error: 
> > Running transaction check
> > Transaction check succeeded.
> > Running transaction test
> > The downloaded packages were saved in cache until the next
> > successful
> > transaction.
> > You can remove cached packages by executing 'dnf clean packages'.
> > Error: Transaction check error:
> >   file /usr/bin from install of
> > google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64 conflicts with file from
> > package filesystem-3.2-37.fc24.x86_64 # dnf --system-upgrade reboot
> > will not run due to same error.
> 
> This is a well known error in the spec file for the google earth
> file.
> It tries to own /usr/bin, which it can't own, and so fails.
> 
> Here's a web reference to it.
> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=302767
> and here
> https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/85979/transaction-check-err
> or-during-google-earth-install/
> 
> A long time ago I installed google earth, and used a work around on
> the
> spec file.  I don't remember it now, but it worked with the rebuilt
> rpm
> file.
> 
> The way to fix this so you can upgrade is by removing only google
> earth using rpm directly, instead of through dnf.
> 
> rpm --erase --nodeps --test [google-earth-stable?]
> 
> This will test the command without doing anything.  When it does what
> you want, remove the --test option.
> 
> After the upgrade, you can look for ways to re-install google earth.
Thanks, Rich, Dominik, Adam, Josh and John.  It appears that both
versions are now gone.

It looks like probably Dominik's suggestion of the -e cleared the
program.  So somehow, rpm -e packagename seemed to be the magic bullet.
 I will start overwith the update to make sure all the packages
downloaded, and let you know if success happens.

Thank you all for your support.

Regards,
Les H
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 21:25 +, John Florian wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:35 -0800, Josh Stone wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > Perhaps dnf thinks google-earth is now the authority on
%{_bindir} ?
> > > > > > So removing it is tearing the rug out from under all those
others?
> > 
> > Well, I don't think so, as I'd expect that to rip out much *more*
> > > > stuff. I think it must be something a bit more odd than /usr/bin .
The
> > 'filesystem' package provides /usr/bin too, and that ought to be
> > installed.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point.  What does `rpm -V filesystem` show?
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
Nothing!# rpm -V filesystem
# 

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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 13:21 -0800, Josh Stone wrote:
> On 12/01/2016 12:40 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Josh Stone <jist...@redhat.com>
> > To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora
> >  > v...@lists.fedoraproject.org>, Adam Williamson <adamwill@fedoraproje
> > ct.o
> > rg>
> > Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
> > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 12:37:04 -0800
> > 
> > On 12/01/2016 12:26 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Now it gets really weird...
> > > # rpm -q --provides google-earth
> > > package google-earth is not installed
> > 
> > Should be google-earth-stable, no?
> > *
> > 
> > Different results:
> > rpm -q --provides google-earth-stable
> > google-earth = 7.1.7.2606
> > google-earth-stable = 7.1.7.2606-0
> > google-earth-stable(x86-64) = 7.1.7.2606-0
> 
> There's also something weird that this is 7.1...
> but your original mail quoted problems with 6.0.
> 
New stuff, however the commands are affecting the system, when I now go
to /opt/google/earth, the directory is now empty.

and google earth is no longer in the list of applications.

regards,
Les H
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 21:54 +0100, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
wrote:
> On Thursday, 01 December 2016 at 21:40, Howard Howell wrote:
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Josh Stone <jist...@redhat.com>
> > To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora
> >  > v...@lists.fedoraproject.org>, Adam Williamson <adamwill@fedoraproje
> > ct.o
> > rg>
> > Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
> > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 12:37:04 -0800
> > 
> > > 
> > > On 12/01/2016 12:26 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Now it gets really weird...
> > > > # rpm -q --provides google-earth
> > > > package google-earth is not installed
> > > 
> > > Should be google-earth-stable, no?
> > > *
> > 
> > Different results:
> > rpm -q --provides google-earth-stable
> > google-earth = 7.1.7.2606
> > google-earth-stable = 7.1.7.2606-0
> > google-earth-stable(x86-64) = 7.1.7.2606-0
> > 
> > But not the one with the issue???
> 
> Yes, because dnf complains about issues with the updated
> google-earth-stable package, not the current one. 
> 
> Try `rpm -e google-earth-stable'.
> 
> Regards,
> Dominik
> 
> PS. Your quoting is bad (no indentation, so it misattributes quotes)
> and this is really not a topic for the developers list.
As you can see, I did change the quoting preferences.  I didn't notice
that it had changed.  I have vision issues, and touch issues, so
occasionally I change things I do not intend to. 
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Regards,
Les H
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

-Original Message-
From: Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <domi...@greysector.net>
Reply-to: Development discussions related to Fedora
<devel@lists.fedoraproject.org>
To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 21:54:13 +0100

On Thursday, 01 December 2016 at 21:40, Howard Howell wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Stone <jist...@redhat.com>
> To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora
>  v...@lists.fedoraproject.org>, Adam Williamson <adamwill@fedoraproject
> .o
> rg>
> Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 12:37:04 -0800
> 
> > 
> > On 12/01/2016 12:26 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Now it gets really weird...
> > > # rpm -q --provides google-earth
> > > package google-earth is not installed
> > 
> > Should be google-earth-stable, no?
> > *
> 
> Different results:
> rpm -q --provides google-earth-stable
> google-earth = 7.1.7.2606
> google-earth-stable = 7.1.7.2606-0
> google-earth-stable(x86-64) = 7.1.7.2606-0
> 
> But not the one with the issue???

Yes, because dnf complains about issues with the updated
google-earth-stable package, not the current one. 

Try `rpm -e google-earth-stable'.

Regards,
Dominik

PS. Your quoting is bad (no indentation, so it misattributes quotes)
and this is really not a topic for the developers list.

# rpm -e google-earth-stable
[root@school log]# 

Well, I tried the users list, no reply.  I did google, bugzilla, and
checked as many search terms as I could.  Upgrades via dnf are
relatively new, and since it was not on bugzilla, I thought before I
submitted one I should have sufficient supporting information on what
exactly is the bug.  A non conforming package is going to happen on the
cutting edge, so this is something that bears investigation by the
developers, I would think.

Also if investigation proves that I caused it then providing people
with information to avoid the issue would be good, wouldn't it?
 However installing a non supported package should not prevent an
upgrade, should it?

Regards,
Les H
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

-Original Message-
From: Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org>
To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Josh Stone <jist...@redhat.com>, Development
discussions related to Fedora <devel@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:54:44 -0800

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:40 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Stone <jist...@redhat.com>
> To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora
>  v...@lists.fedoraproject.org>, Adam Williamson <adamwill@fedoraproject
> .o
> rg>
> Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 12:37:04 -0800
> 
> On 12/01/2016 12:26 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Now it gets really weird...
> > # rpm -q --provides google-earth
> > package google-earth is not installed
> 
> Should be google-earth-stable, no?
> *
> 
> Different results:
> rpm -q --provides google-earth-stable
> google-earth = 7.1.7.2606
> google-earth-stable = 7.1.7.2606-0
> google-earth-stable(x86-64) = 7.1.7.2606-0
> 
> But not the one with the issue???

It's a file, I just wanted to see the package provides. Can we also
get:

rpm -ql google-earth-stable ?
***
# rpm -ql google-earth-stable
/etc/cron.daily
/etc/cron.daily/google-earth
/opt/google/earth/free
/opt/google/earth/free/ImporterGlobalSettings.ini
/opt/google/earth/free/ImporterUISettings.ini
/opt/google/earth/free/PCOptimizations.ini
/opt/google/earth/free/drivers.ini
/opt/google/earth/free/google-earth
/opt/google/earth/free/google-earth.desktop
/opt/google/earth/free/googleearth
/opt/google/earth/free/googleearth-bin
/opt/google/earth/free/gpl.txt
/opt/google/earth/free/gpsbabel
/opt/google/earth/free/kh20
/opt/google/earth/free/lang
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/ar.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/bg.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/ca.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/cs.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/da.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/de.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/el.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/en.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/es-419.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/es.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/fa.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/fi.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/fil.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/fr.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/he.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/hi.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/hr.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/hu.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/id.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/it.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/ja.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/ko.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/lt.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/lv.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/nl.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/no.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/pl.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/pt-PT.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/pt.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/ro.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/ru.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/sk.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/sl.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/sr.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/sv.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/th.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/tr.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/uk.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/vi.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/zh-Hans.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/zh-Hant-HK.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/lang/zh-Hant.qm
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGAttrs.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGCore.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGExportCommon.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGGfx.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGMath.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGOpt.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGSg.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libIGUtils.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libLeap.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libQtCore.so.4
/opt/google/earth/free/libQtGui.so.4
/opt/google/earth/free/libQtNetwork.so.4
/opt/google/earth/free/libQtWebKit.so.4
/opt/google/earth/free/libaction.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libalchemyext.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libapiloader.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libauth.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libbase.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libbasicingest.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libcollada.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libcommon.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libcommon_gui.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libcommon_platform.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libcommon_webbrowser.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libcomponentframework.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libevll.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libexpat.so.1
/opt/google/earth/free/libfilmstrip.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libflightsim.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libfreebl3.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libfusioncommon.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libgdal.so.1
/opt/google/earth/free/libgdata.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libge_cache.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libge_chrome_net.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libge_net.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libgeobase.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libgeobaseutils.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libglobalnew.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libgoogleapi.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libgoogleearth_free.so
/opt/google/earth/free/libgooglesearch.so
/opt

Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

-Original Message-
From: Josh Stone <jist...@redhat.com>
To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora , Adam Williamson <adamwill@fedoraproject.o
rg>
Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 12:37:04 -0800

On 12/01/2016 12:26 PM, Howard Howell wrote:
> 
> Now it gets really weird...
> # rpm -q --provides google-earth
> package google-earth is not installed

Should be google-earth-stable, no?
*

Different results:
rpm -q --provides google-earth-stable
google-earth = 7.1.7.2606
google-earth-stable = 7.1.7.2606-0
google-earth-stable(x86-64) = 7.1.7.2606-0

But not the one with the issue???
Regards,
Les H
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

-Original Message-
From: Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org>
To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora 
Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:22:31 -0800

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:15 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org>
> To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora
>  v...@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:11:29 -0800
> 
> On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:05 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Since the dnf erase command doesn't work, or tries to remove over
> > 211M
> > of files, do you mean just to remove the directory tree for the
> > offending package using the rm command?
> 
> Sorry, I missed that part. I use 'dnf remove', but I don't know if
> there's any difference between that and 'dnf erase'. But when you say
> '211M of files', that could just be Google Earth itself; it's a
> pretty
> big app. What exactly is the output from 'dnf remove google-earth'?
> 
> Dependencies resolved.
> =
> ==
> =
>  Package  Arch   VersionRepositor
> y 
> Size
> =
> ==
> =
> 
> Transaction Summary
> =
> ==
> =
> Remove  61 Packages

Wow, yeah. There is something weird going on there. It looks a lot like
the google-earth stuff is providing some kind of core stuff which
should usually come from a Fedora package, so that package isn't
installed. But I dunno how you got in that state in the *first* place.
What does `rpm -q --provides google-earth` show?

sorry for the second reply... but, google earth still works.  I don't
remember when exactly I installed it, or from where.  I was deep into a
bit of friends code he is using on robotics, which uses the google
earth api for its mapping.  I get one track minded when chasing
software, and that package is 4 or 5 languages, deep directory stuff,
lots of indirect and text parsing in the web interface, so my mind was
in a different space when it asked for google earth. I normally load
such things just using dnf install, but I seem to remember that I
couldn't find google earth with dns (probably typos or text inversion),
so I may have downloaded it from google.  Speed kills!
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

-Original Message-
From: Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org>
To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora 
Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:22:31 -0800

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:15 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org>
> To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora
>  v...@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:11:29 -0800
> 
> On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:05 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Since the dnf erase command doesn't work, or tries to remove over
> > 211M
> > of files, do you mean just to remove the directory tree for the
> > offending package using the rm command?
> 
> Sorry, I missed that part. I use 'dnf remove', but I don't know if
> there's any difference between that and 'dnf erase'. But when you say
> '211M of files', that could just be Google Earth itself; it's a
> pretty
> big app. What exactly is the output from 'dnf remove google-earth'?
> 
> Dependencies resolved.
> =
> ==
> =
>  Package  Arch   VersionRepositor
> y 
> Size
> =
> ==
> =
> 
> Transaction Summary
> =
> ==
> =
> Remove  61 Packages

Wow, yeah. There is something weird going on there. It looks a lot like
the google-earth stuff is providing some kind of core stuff which
should usually come from a Fedora package, so that package isn't
installed. But I dunno how you got in that state in the *first* place.
What does `rpm -q --provides google-earth` show?

Now it gets really weird...
# rpm -q --provides google-earth
package google-earth is not installed
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Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

-Original Message-
From: Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org>
To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora 
Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:11:29 -0800

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 12:05 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> 
> 
> Since the dnf erase command doesn't work, or tries to remove over
> 211M
> of files, do you mean just to remove the directory tree for the
> offending package using the rm command?

Sorry, I missed that part. I use 'dnf remove', but I don't know if
there's any difference between that and 'dnf erase'. But when you say
'211M of files', that could just be Google Earth itself; it's a pretty
big app. What exactly is the output from 'dnf remove google-earth'?

Dependencies resolved.
===
=
 Package  Arch   VersionRepository 
Size
===
=
Removing:
 esmtpx86_64 1.2-
4.fc24 @updates   97 k
 google-earth-stable  x86_64 7.1.7.2606-
0   @@commandline 189 M
 liblockfile  x86_64 1.09-
4.fc24@fedora44 k
 libpng12 x86_64 1.2.56-
2.fc24  @fedora   442 k
 mailxx86_64 12.5-
19.fc24   @fedora   479 k
 ncurses-compat-libs  x86_64 6.0-
6.20160709.fc24@updates  946 k
 patchx86_64 2.7.5-
3.fc24   @fedora   231 k
 perl-Algorithm-Diff  noarch 1.1903-
4.fc24  @fedora   108 k
 perl-Archive-Tar noarch 2.06-
2.fc24@updates  149 k
 perl-Archive-Zip noarch 1.58-
1.fc24@updates  252 k
 perl-B-Lint  noarch 1.20-
6.fc24@fedora30 k
 perl-CGI noarch 4.28-
2.fc24@fedora   533 k
 perl-CPANnoarch 2.11-
349.fc24  @fedora   1.7 M
 perl-Class-ISA   noarch 0.36-
1017.fc24 @fedora13 k
 perl-Compress-Bzip2  x86_64 2.25-
1.fc24@updates  142 k
 perl-Data-Sectionnoarch 0.26-
6.fc24@fedora40 k
 perl-Devel-Size  x86_64 0.80-
4.fc24@fedora78 k
 perl-Env noarch 1.04-
347.fc24  @fedora26 k
 perl-ExtUtils-CBuilder   noarch 1:0.280224-
2.fc24  @fedora96 k
 perl-ExtUtils-MM-Utils   noarch 7.10-
5.fc24@updates  3.1 k
 perl-File-CheckTree  noarch 4.42-
296.fc24  @fedora28 k
 perl-IO-Zlib noarch 1:1.10-
364.fc24@updates   19 k
 perl-IPC-Cmd noarch 1:0.96-
1.fc24  @updates   83 k
 perl-IPC-System-Simple   noarch 1.25-
8.fc24@fedora69 k
 perl-Locale-Codesnoarch 3.40-
1.fc24@updates  2.2 M
 perl-Locale-Maketext noarch 1.26-
349.fc24  @updates  166 k
 perl-Locale-Maketext-Simple  noarch 1:0.21-
364.fc24@updates   14 k
 perl-MRO-Compat  noarch 0.12-
10.fc24   @fedora26 k
 perl-Module-Buildnoarch 2:0.42.18-
1.fc24   @fedora   654 k
 perl-Module-CoreList noarch 1:5.20161020-
1.fc24@updates  719 k
 perl-Module-Load-Conditional noarch 0.68-
1.fc24@updates   29 k
 perl-Module-Metadata noarch 1.27-
4.fc24@fedora61 k
 perl-Net-Pingnoarch 2.43-
364.fc24  @updates   67 k
 perl-Params-Checknoarch 1:0.38-
347.fc24@fedora28 k
 perl-Perl-OSType noarch 1.009-
2.fc24   @fedora33 k
 perl-Pod-Checker noarch 4:1.71-
6.fc24  @fedora45 k
 perl-Pod-Htmlnoarch 1.22-
364.fc24  @updates   36 k
 perl-Pod-LaTeX   noarch 0.61-
297.fc24  @fedora84 k
 perl-Pod-Parser  noarch 1.63-
348.fc24  @fedora   263 k
 perl-Pod-Plainer noarch 1.04-
2.fc24@fedora   5.1 k
 perl-Software-Licensenoarch 0.103012-
1.fc24@fedora   417 k
 perl-Sys-Syslog  x86_64 0.35-
1.fc24@updates   95 k
 perl-Test-Simple noarch 1.001014-
347.fc24  @fedora   448 k
 perl-Text-Diff   noarch 1.44-
1.fc24@fedora83 k
 perl-Text-Glob   noarch 0.09-
15.fc24   @fedora   7.8 k
 perl-Text-Soundexx86_64 3.05-
2.fc24@fedora47 k
 perl-Text-Template   noarch 1.46-
4.fc24@fedora   122 k
 perl-autodie noarch 2.29-
2.fc24@fedora   211 k
 perl-inc-latest  noarch 2:0.500-
4.fc24

Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

-Original Message-
From: Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org>
To: hlhow...@pacbell.net, Development discussions related to Fedora 
Subject: Re: failure of f24 to f25 upgrade
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 11:41:23 -0800

On Thu, 2016-12-01 at 11:32 -0800, Howard Howell wrote:
> 
> Hi, everyone,
>   I have been trying to upgrade my system from f24 to f25 using
> the cli in the terminal.
> 
>   814  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25
>   815  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25 --allowerasing
>   816  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25 --allowerasing --
> nogpgcheck
> 
>   all run from superuser.
> 
>   error: 
> Running transaction check
> Transaction check succeeded.
> Running transaction test
> The downloaded packages were saved in cache until the next successful
> transaction.
> You can remove cached packages by executing 'dnf clean packages'.
> Error: Transaction check error:
>   file /usr/bin from install of google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-
> 0.x86_64 
> conflicts with file from package filesystem-3.2-37.fc24.x86_64
>   # dnf --system-upgrade reboot
> will not run due to same error.
> 
> I have obtained the google key and installed it using pgp install,
> but
> no change.  Here are some of the other things I have tried:
>     dnf distrosync
>     dnf help
>     dnf upgrade google_Earth
>     dnf upgrade google-earth
>     dnf system-upgrade --nogpgcheck reboot
>     dnf erase googleearth
> 
> The erase google earth I have tried also with the full name
>     dnf erase google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64
>     No match for argument: google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64
>     Error: No packages marked for removal.
> 
> Given that I cannot erase the offending package, I tried:
>     dnf system-upgrade reboot --allowerasing
>     Error: system is not ready for upgrade
> 
> Yet again with nogpgcheck
>   dnf system-upgrade reboot --nogpgcheck
>   Error: system is not ready for upgrade
> 
> A straight reboot will bring the system back to f24.  But no upgrade.
> 
> A bugzilla check was no less frustrating with no help for the issue.
> 
> Any ideas out there?

Well, that Google Earth package is clearly bad. There's no reason it
should own /usr/bin . It looks like the problem is that it sets a
different mode on it than the `filesystem` package does, which dnf/rpm
will see as a conflict: two packages can contain the same file or
directory without conflict only so long as the file or directory is
identical and has identical properties in both. If they diverge at all,
it becomes a package conflict.

The obvious thing you can do for now is simply remove the google-earth
package; after that the upgrade should work fine. You can then look at
ways to reinstall Google Earth on the upgraded system.

Since the dnf erase command doesn't work, or tries to remove over 211M
of files, do you mean just to remove the directory tree for the
offending package using the rm command?

Regards,
Les H
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failure of f24 to f25 upgrade

[Howard Howell]

Hi, everyone,
I have been trying to upgrade my system from f24 to f25 using
the cli in the terminal.

  814  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25
  815  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25 --allowerasing
  816  dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=25 --allowerasing --
nogpgcheck

  all run from superuser.

  error: 
Running transaction check
Transaction check succeeded.
Running transaction test
The downloaded packages were saved in cache until the next successful
transaction.
You can remove cached packages by executing 'dnf clean packages'.
Error: Transaction check error:
  file /usr/bin from install of google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64 
conflicts with file from package filesystem-3.2-37.fc24.x86_64
  # dnf --system-upgrade reboot
will not run due to same error.

I have obtained the google key and installed it using pgp install, but
no change.  Here are some of the other things I have tried:
    dnf distrosync
    dnf help
    dnf upgrade google_Earth
    dnf upgrade google-earth
    dnf system-upgrade --nogpgcheck reboot
    dnf erase googleearth

The erase google earth I have tried also with the full name
    dnf erase google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64
    No match for argument: google-earth-stable-6.0.3.2197-0.x86_64
    Error: No packages marked for removal.

Given that I cannot erase the offending package, I tried:
    dnf system-upgrade reboot --allowerasing
    Error: system is not ready for upgrade

Yet again with nogpgcheck
dnf system-upgrade reboot --nogpgcheck
Error: system is not ready for upgrade

A straight reboot will bring the system back to f24.  But no upgrade.

A bugzilla check was no less frustrating with no help for the issue.

Any ideas out there?

Regards,
Les H
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