Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-12-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Fri, 26.11.10 16:18, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Sorry for not responding earlier to this, I have been travelling the last few weeks with little access to the internet. I tried it amtu.service - Abstract Machine Tests Loaded: loaded

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-23 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 06.12.10 12:30, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote: Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) said: If systemd will allow us to do that, sure. What's the point here? For example, this doesn't cut down on the number of listening ports, obviously, nor on the requirements

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-11 Thread Kevin Kofler
Rahul Sundaram wrote: Socket activation is not mandatory or even a benefit in all cases. Just because we have a patch doesn't mean it is the right one. Upstream might have the foresight and the knowledge to see problems with patches we might not. There might be security implications. It

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-11 Thread Rahul Sundaram
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Rahul Sundaram wrote: Socket activation is not mandatory or even a benefit in all cases. Just because we have a patch doesn't mean it is the right one. Upstream might have the foresight and the knowledge to see problems with patches

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-10 Thread Kevin Kofler
Bill Nottingham wrote: Right. To do this in systemd implies that you're patching openssh to do socket-based activation... hence why I asked about upstream's opinion on it. Why would we care? It's our goal to have ALL network daemons be socket-activated eventually. This is a distribution-wide

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-10 Thread Kevin Kofler
Chris Adams wrote: The only thing you need a firewall by default for is to prevent services that are listening on the network from being accessible. The better solution is to stop having services listen on the network by default. FWIW, this is what Ubuntu has been doing for ages (they call it

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-10 Thread Rahul Sundaram
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 4:57 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.atwrote: Bill Nottingham wrote: Right. To do this in systemd implies that you're patching openssh to do socket-based activation... hence why I asked about upstream's opinion on it. Why would we care? It's our goal to

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-07 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 20:08 -0600, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com said: On most laptops, however, which are the most common types of system sold today, a firewall is very definitely needed when you're connecting to hotel networks, public wifi

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-07 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Tomas Mraz tm...@redhat.com said: In the cups case might be probably reasonable to default to localhost. However for rpcbind it is clearly not so - what's the point of starting things that are mostly needed for NFS when you would be able to mount only NFS provided by the

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-07 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/7 Tomas Mraz tm...@redhat.com: On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 20:08 -0600, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com said: On most laptops, however, which are the most common types of system sold today, a firewall is very definitely needed when you're connecting

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-07 Thread Till Maas
On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 08:08:49PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com said: On most laptops, however, which are the most common types of system sold today, a firewall is very definitely needed when you're connecting to hotel networks, public wifi

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Hans de Goede
Hi, On 12/06/2010 06:34 AM, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, W dniu 3 grudnia 2010 09:14 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: [..] What services are installed by default when installong form Live GNOME/KDE/etc and DVD? Ok, let's ask the question differently - what

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 10:43 użytkownik Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com napisał: Hi, On 12/06/2010 06:34 AM, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, W dniu 3 grudnia 2010 09:14 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com  napisał: [..] What services are installed by default when installong form

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 06:34:45 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, W dniu 3 grudnia 2010 09:14 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: [..] What services are installed by default when installong form Live GNOME/KDE/etc and DVD? Ok, let's ask the question

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Bill Nottingham
Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) said: IMO ssh can be off by default and should be started only if user tries to connect over port 22. If systemd will allow us to do that, sure. What's the point here? For example, this doesn't cut down on the number of listening ports, obviously, nor on the

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 18:01 użytkownik Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com napisał: On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 06:34:45 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, W dniu 3 grudnia 2010 09:14 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: [..] What services are installed by default

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/6 Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com: Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) said: IMO ssh can be off by default and should be started only if user tries to connect over port 22. If systemd will allow us to do that, sure. What's the point here? For example, this doesn't cut down on the

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 18:17:51 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 18:01 użytkownik Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com napisał: ...snip... What are you trying to do? I'm trying to convert sysvinit scripts to systemd services (as many as possible) If you're

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 18:43 użytkownik Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com napisał: On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 18:17:51 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 18:01 użytkownik Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com napisał: ...snip... What are you trying to do? I'm trying to

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Bill Nottingham
Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) said: If systemd will allow us to do that, sure. What's the point here? For example, this doesn't cut down on the number of listening ports, obviously, nor on the requirements for root passwords and potential root login. And if it's started in

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/6 Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com: Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) said: If systemd will allow us to do that, sure. What's the point here? For example, this doesn't cut down on the number of listening ports, obviously, nor on the requirements for root passwords and

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Miloslav Trmač
Michał Piotrowski píše v Po 06. 12. 2010 v 20:22 +0100: 2010/12/6 Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com: Does openssh stands out something special between other demons? Actually, it does - for remote installations (sometimes the only option) ssh needs to be running after installation so that the

Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
I wonder why my server rejected my previous email? -- Wiadomość przekazana dalej -- Od: Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com Data: 6 grudnia 2010 20:46 Temat: Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Bill Nottingham
Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) said: We are talking here about the case when ssh server is started when user connect to 22 port (or other configured). From my POV everything should work as expected. Right. To do this in systemd implies that you're patching openssh to do socket-based

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/6 Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com: Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) said: We are talking here about the case when ssh server is started when user connect to 22 port (or other configured). From my POV everything should work as expected. Right. To do this in systemd implies

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Toshio Kuratomi
On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 06:55:20PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 18:43 użytkownik Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com napisał: On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 18:17:51 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 18:01 użytkownik Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/7 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com: On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 06:55:20PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: W dniu 6 grudnia 2010 18:43 użytkownik Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com napisał: On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 18:17:51 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: W dniu 6 grudnia 2010

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Matt McCutchen
On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 00:38 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Cron - but should be activated only when cron files exist It seems to me that the list: - ssh - Dbus - syslog - iptables - ip6tables - auditd - restorecond is an absolute minimum to get working system. I don't agree that ssh

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/7 Matt McCutchen m...@mattmccutchen.net: On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 00:38 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Cron - but should be activated only when cron files exist It seems to me that the list: - ssh - Dbus - syslog - iptables - ip6tables - auditd - restorecond is an absolute

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Toshio Kuratomi
On Tue, Dec 07, 2010 at 12:38:07AM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/12/7 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com:  Those might be able to start defining a category of things needed to run a desktop session or something. iptables, no chance to disable this I'd be more inclined to ask

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Matt McCutchen
On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 01:07 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/12/7 Matt McCutchen m...@mattmccutchen.net: On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 00:38 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Cron - but should be activated only when cron files exist It seems to me that the list: - ssh - Dbus - syslog -

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Adam Williamson
On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 10:54 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: There are no stupid questions :) On most desktop systems firewall is not needed. Many users do not even know how to configure it. In fact I disable it in most of my systems, because there is no real use for it. So I asked a simple

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Miloslav Trmač
Adam Williamson píše v Po 06. 12. 2010 v 17:57 -0800: On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 10:54 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: There are no stupid questions :) On most desktop systems firewall is not needed. Many users do not even know how to configure it. In fact I disable it in most of my

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Jesse Keating
On 12/06/2010 05:57 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On most laptops, however, which are the most common types of system sold today, a firewall is very definitely needed when you're connecting to hotel networks, public wifi access points... Please explain why. What actual service is the firewall

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Matt McCutchen
On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 17:57 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 10:54 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: There are no stupid questions :) On most desktop systems firewall is not needed. Many users do not even know how to configure it. In fact I disable it in most of my

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com said: On most laptops, however, which are the most common types of system sold today, a firewall is very definitely needed when you're connecting to hotel networks, public wifi access points... The only thing you need a firewall by default

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/7 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com: On Tue, Dec 07, 2010 at 12:38:07AM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/12/7 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com:  Those might be able to start defining a category of things needed to run a desktop session or something. iptables, no chance

Re: Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-06 Thread Toshio Kuratomi
On Tue, Dec 07, 2010 at 07:14:16AM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/12/7 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com: On Tue, Dec 07, 2010 at 12:38:07AM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/12/7 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com:  Those might be able to start defining a category of things

Fedora default services (was: Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services)

2010-12-05 Thread Michał Piotrowski
Hi, W dniu 3 grudnia 2010 09:14 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: [..] What services are installed by default when installong form Live GNOME/KDE/etc and DVD? Ok, let's ask the question differently - what services should be run by default to provide working system for

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-12-03 Thread Michał Piotrowski
Hi, What services are installed by default when installong form Live GNOME/KDE/etc and DVD? -- Best regards, Michal Sent from my iToaster -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-12-03 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:14:26 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, What services are installed by default when installong form Live GNOME/KDE/etc and DVD? Varies? :) I don't know that anyone has a list... it should be pretty easy to do some installs and run 'chkconfig --list

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-12-03 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/12/4 Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com: On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:14:26 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, What services are installed by default when installong form Live GNOME/KDE/etc and DVD? Varies? :) I don't know that anyone has a list... it should be pretty easy to do

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-26 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Fri, 2010-11-26 at 02:07 +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote: Lennart Poettering píše v Pá 26. 11. 2010 v 01:27 +0100: On Thu, 25.11.10 17:33, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: And also, cron does a couple of really nasty things. For example it wakes up in regular intervals to check if a job

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-26 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Fri, 2010-11-26 at 03:05 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Fri, 26.11.10 02:07, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: Lennart Poettering píše v Pá 26. 11. 2010 v 01:27 +0100: On Thu, 25.11.10 17:33, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: And also, cron does a couple of really nasty

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-26 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Thu, 2010-11-25 at 23:11 -0500, Genes MailLists wrote: On 11/25/2010 11:01 PM, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said: Well, I actually believe we should design an OS here, not just a set of independent tools. And that means I think closer

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-26 Thread Michał Piotrowski
Hi, How to start things that really are not demons? Amtu seemed to be a simple service to convert [Unit] Description=Abstract Machine Tests After=syslog.target [Service] EnvironmentFile=/etc/sysconfig/amtu ExecStart=/usr/sbin/amtu $EXTRAOPTIONS [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target sudo

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-26 Thread Tomasz Torcz
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 03:42:33PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, How to start things that really are not demons? Amtu seemed to be a simple service to convert [Unit] Description=Abstract Machine Tests After=syslog.target [Service] EnvironmentFile=/etc/sysconfig/amtu

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-26 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/26 Tomasz Torcz to...@pipebreaker.pl: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 03:42:33PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, How to start things that really are not demons? Amtu seemed to be a simple service to convert [Unit] Description=Abstract Machine Tests After=syslog.target [Service]

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-26 Thread Frank Ch. Eigler
Miloslav =?UTF-8?Q?Trma=C4=8D?= m...@volny.cz writes: [...] If the system integrates everything into one process, the only remaining troubleshooting mechanisms are integrated logging [...], debugger [...] and systemtap (only a little better than a debugger, and not available for most

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/25 Tomas Mraz tm...@redhat.com: On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 21:56 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: That's the point of the .path unit. i.e. you can list dirs to watch. If a user then drop a file into one of those dirs cron gets automatically started. Basically, in your .path unit you'd

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Thu, 2010-11-25 at 09:31 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/25 Tomas Mraz tm...@redhat.com: On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 21:56 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: That's the point of the .path unit. i.e. you can list dirs to watch. If a user then drop a file into one of those dirs cron gets

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Thu, 2010-11-25 at 09:31 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/25 Tomas Mraz tm...@redhat.com: On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 21:56 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: That's the point of the .path unit. i.e. you can list dirs to watch. If a user then drop a file into one of those dirs cron gets

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Michał Piotrowski
W dniu 25 listopada 2010 17:33 użytkownik Tomas Mraz tm...@redhat.com napisał: On Thu, 2010-11-25 at 09:31 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Actually it's true, but in the near future all standard cron jobs might be runned by systemd http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/systemd.timer.html

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Thu, 25.11.10 08:39, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: That's the point of the .path unit. i.e. you can list dirs to watch. If a user then drop a file into one of those dirs cron gets automatically started. Basically, in your .path unit you'd write something like this:

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Thu, 25.11.10 17:33, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: Actually it's true, but in the near future all standard cron jobs might be runned by systemd http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/systemd.timer.html It's not 100 % cron replacement now, but who knows what the future holds

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Andrew Clayton
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 01:15:04 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: The only contents of /etc/crontab and /etc/cron.d is the lines to handle /etc/cron.daily and friends. As mentioned we can easily run On RHEL/CentOS (and it's likely only a matter of time before systemd fillers through to them)

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Genes MailLists
Although I can't be the only one who puts various cron jobs under /etc/cron.d that get run at various times. Andrew Almost every administrative cron here is in a cron.d crontab file .. we need control over exactly what time certain things happen. So please keep the functionality. If

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Miloslav Trmač
Lennart Poettering píše v Pá 26. 11. 2010 v 01:27 +0100: And also, cron does a couple of really nasty things. For example it wakes up in regular intervals to check if a job is ready to run. It does so to deal with wallclock time changes/suspends. In systemd we are working on a different way to

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Miloslav Trmač
Lennart Poettering píše v Pá 26. 11. 2010 v 01:27 +0100: On Thu, 25.11.10 17:33, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: And also, cron does a couple of really nasty things. For example it wakes up in regular intervals to check if a job is ready to run. It does so to deal with wallclock time

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Fri, 26.11.10 02:07, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: Lennart Poettering píše v Pá 26. 11. 2010 v 01:27 +0100: On Thu, 25.11.10 17:33, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: And also, cron does a couple of really nasty things. For example it wakes up in regular intervals to check if

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Thu, 25.11.10 19:57, Genes MailLists (li...@sapience.com) wrote: Although I can't be the only one who puts various cron jobs under /etc/cron.d that get run at various times. Andrew Almost every administrative cron here is in a cron.d crontab file .. we need control over

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Genes MailLists
On 11/25/2010 09:08 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Thu, 25.11.10 19:57, Genes MailLists (li...@sapience.com) wrote: keep the functionality. Hey, as I made explcitily clear I have no plans of taking away anything from you. No need to be defensive... Actually that was after I posted but ok

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Genes MailLists
On 11/25/2010 09:19 PM, Genes MailLists wrote: On 11/25/2010 09:08 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Thu, 25.11.10 19:57, Genes MailLists (li...@sapience.com) wrote: keep the functionality. Hey, as I made explcitily clear I have no plans of taking away anything from you. No need to be

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Miloslav Trmač
Lennart Poettering píše v Pá 26. 11. 2010 v 03:05 +0100: On Fri, 26.11.10 02:07, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: Lennart Poettering píše v Pá 26. 11. 2010 v 01:27 +0100: On Thu, 25.11.10 17:33, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: And also, cron does a couple of really nasty things.

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said: Well, I actually believe we should design an OS here, not just a set of independent tools. And that means I think closer integration is good and only has benefits. But this is a Unix-like OS, where each tool does one (or few)

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Genes MailLists
On 11/25/2010 11:01 PM, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de said: Well, I actually believe we should design an OS here, not just a set of independent tools. And that means I think closer integration is good and only has benefits. But this is a

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Marcela Mašláňová
On 11/26/2010 01:27 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Thu, 25.11.10 17:33, Tomas Mraz (tm...@redhat.com) wrote: Actually it's true, but in the near future all standard cron jobs might be runned by systemd http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/systemd.timer.html It's not 100 % cron

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-25 Thread Adam Williamson
On Fri, 2010-11-26 at 07:42 +0100, Marcela Mašláňová wrote: I'm just curious, how many programmes would stay in Fedora after you finish systemd ;-) /sarcasm. and do we run systemd in emacs, or emacs from systemd?! -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk:

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Sun, 21.11.10 00:46, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi, I would like to help with scripts conversion. IMO the conversion action should be coordinated. Comments, thoughts? I would certainly welcome any work in this

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Tomasz Torcz
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 01:41:49PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Sun, 21.11.10 00:46, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi, I would like to help with scripts conversion. IMO the conversion action should be

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Marcela Mašláňová
On 11/24/2010 01:41 PM, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Sun, 21.11.10 00:46, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi, I would like to help with scripts conversion. IMO the conversion action should be coordinated. Comments, thoughts?

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/24 Tomasz Torcz to...@pipebreaker.pl: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 01:41:49PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Sun, 21.11.10 00:46, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi, I would like to help with scripts conversion.

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/24 Marcela Mašláňová mmasl...@redhat.com: On 11/24/2010 01:41 PM, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Sun, 21.11.10 00:46, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi, I would like to help with scripts conversion. IMO the conversion

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 24.11.10 13:59, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: 2010/11/24 Tomasz Torcz to...@pipebreaker.pl: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 01:41:49PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Sun, 21.11.10 00:46, Michał Piotrowski

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Lennart Poettering wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking of but never check ehwther it is feasible is to make cron/at autostart a soon as some job is scheduled. I.e. use .path trigger to check whether /etc/crontab and user jobs exist, and start cron only

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Wed, 24.11.10 13:59, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: 2010/11/24 Tomasz Torcz to...@pipebreaker.pl: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 01:41:49PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de:

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread James Antill
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 10:19 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 17:18:44 +0100, Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: W dniu 21 listopada 2010 12:13 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: We can create a list of all scripts in wiki and

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/24 Paul Wouters p...@xelerance.com: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Lennart Poettering wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking of but never check ehwther it is feasible is to make cron/at autostart a soon as some job is scheduled. I.e. use .path trigger to check whether

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Tomasz Torcz
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 09:30:03PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Paul Wouters p...@xelerance.com: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Lennart Poettering wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking of but never check ehwther it is feasible is to make cron/at autostart a soon as

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
W dniu 24 listopada 2010 21:34 użytkownik Tomasz Torcz to...@pipebreaker.pl napisał: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 09:30:03PM +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote: 2010/11/24 Paul Wouters p...@xelerance.com: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Lennart Poettering wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 24.11.10 15:22, Paul Wouters (p...@xelerance.com) wrote: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Lennart Poettering wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking of but never check ehwther it is feasible is to make cron/at autostart a soon as some job is scheduled. I.e. use .path trigger

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 24.11.10 21:30, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: 2010/11/24 Paul Wouters p...@xelerance.com: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Lennart Poettering wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking of but never check ehwther it is feasible is to make cron/at autostart a soon

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
Someone uses cherokee web server? Please check this service https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=657085 Kind regards, Michal -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 24.11.10 22:08, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Someone uses cherokee web server? Please check this service https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=657085 Looks good (haven't tested it though, and don't really know cherokee). In this case however, I think it would

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
I wanted to convert httpd, and I saw that it's already converted and it uses socket httpd.socket ListenStream=80 What if administrator want to change port to other? Let's say, that I've got configured three servers: 80 - cherokee 81 - apache 82 - nginx In this enviroment httpd.socket should

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 24.11.10 22:32, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: I wanted to convert httpd, and I saw that it's already converted and it uses socket httpd.socket ListenStream=80 Where do I find this? Its not in the pkg git tree nor in bugzilla? What if administrator want to change

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Wed, 24.11.10 22:08, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: Someone uses cherokee web server? Please check this service https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=657085 Looks good (haven't tested it though, and don't really know

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/24 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de: On Wed, 24.11.10 22:32, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: I wanted to convert httpd, and I saw that it's already converted and it uses socket httpd.socket ListenStream=80 Where do I find this? Its not in the pkg git tree nor

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 24.11.10 21:25, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking of but never check ehwther it is feasible is to make cron/at autostart a soon as some job is scheduled. I.e. use .path trigger to check whether /etc/crontab and user jobs

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-24 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 21:56 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Wed, 24.11.10 15:22, Paul Wouters (p...@xelerance.com) wrote: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Lennart Poettering wrote: BTW, regarding at and cron: what I was thinking of but never check ehwther it is feasible is to make

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Michał Piotrowski
W dniu 21 listopada 2010 12:13 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: We can create a list of all scripts in wiki and maintainers of individual packages would indicate that they want to convert scripts themselves. How can I get information about all packages that provides init

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
MP == Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com writes: MP How can I get information about all packages that provides init MP scripts? repoquery --whatprovides '/etc/init.d/*' - J -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Rudolf Kastl
2010/11/23 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com: W dniu 21 listopada 2010 12:13 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: We can create a list of all scripts in wiki and maintainers of individual packages would indicate that they want to convert scripts themselves. How can I

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Michal Schmidt
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:18:44 +0100 Michał Piotrowski wrote: How can I get information about all packages that provides init scripts? When I do rpm -qf /etc/init.d/* I get only information about already installed packages. Any magic switch to get informations about all packages from rpm

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Bruno Wolff III
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 17:18:44 +0100, Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com wrote: W dniu 21 listopada 2010 12:13 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: We can create a list of all scripts in wiki and maintainers of individual packages would indicate that they want to

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
On 11/20/2010 11:46 PM, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, I would like to help with scripts conversion. IMO the conversion action should be coordinated. Comments, thoughts? Kind regards, Michal I created this a while back so just take your pick from there fill it with a link to the new file

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/23 Jason L Tibbitts III ti...@math.uh.edu: MP == Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com writes: MP How can I get information about all packages that provides init MP scripts? repoquery --whatprovides '/etc/init.d/*' It seems to me that too little packages was returned  - J --

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Michał Piotrowski
2010/11/23 Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com: On 11/20/2010 11:46 PM, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, I would like to help with scripts conversion. IMO the conversion action should be coordinated. Comments, thoughts? Kind regards, Michal I created this a while back so just take

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread philippe makowski
2010/11/23 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com: W dniu 21 listopada 2010 12:13 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: We can create a list of all scripts in wiki and maintainers of individual packages would indicate that they want to convert scripts themselves. I'll try to do

Re: F15 Feature - convert as many service init files as possible to the native SystemD services

2010-11-23 Thread Michał Piotrowski
W dniu 23 listopada 2010 18:35 użytkownik philippe makowski makowski.fed...@gmail.com napisał: 2010/11/23 Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com: W dniu 21 listopada 2010 12:13 użytkownik Michał Piotrowski mkkp...@gmail.com napisał: We can create a list of all scripts in wiki and maintainers of

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