Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Michael Grube]

You are a random, anonymous person with some unqualified sense of
importance using personal attacks to accomplish I'm not sure actually,
what are you trying to accomplish?

This conversation isn't really helpful anymore and should have ended about
20 emails ago. Veiled insults and being living because the word "Classic"
is added to the title seems incredibly dramatic to me. What's the point of
continuing this ragefest? What is the goal? Guilt Ian into changing his
mind? You're doing a pretty bad job.

The regular users in this post who are not highly invested developers seem
fairly neutral to me. Screaming into the abyss changes nothing. Insults
change nothing. This thread has become ridiculous.


On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:49 AM Freenet304987 
wrote:

> Ian Clarke  wrote:
> > > You do not care about the currently existing, vibrant Freenet
> > > Community?
> >
> > I care about the maintainers and users of Fred, and I've said I
> > do
>
> If you care so much about the maintainers, then why are you ignoring
> the fact that they are **all** here, right now, telling you "no"?
>
> > this is why I've been discussing this with you for the last
> > 18 months to ensure that I gave your perspective a fair hearing,
> > even if I ultimately didn't agree with it.
>
> You discussed this in private with a single person.
>
> That is not a discussion with "the maintainerS" or the "userS",
> plural.
> Such a discussion would have been what is happening on the mailing
> list here right now.
>
> And as you can see, it would have resulted in a "no", because
> it does result in a "no" now, which you still not seem to accept.
>

Re: Freenet's Hackathon (second edition)

[Michael Grube]

I'll be participating.

PR Stuff

[Michael Grube]

Hi Dev List,

I've been quietly running a very small PR campaign and would like to make
some data visible to people. I think the results are encouraging.

Since January I've done 3 things to promote Freenet: Gave a brief
introduction to Freenet primitives and a very very basic runthrough of
pyFreenet.

The class was well attended and truly I did not have to work very hard to
fill it.

The second thing I did was give a talk at a regional convention called
Penguicon. I gave essentially the same talk with a demo(that worked!
quickly!) showing what Freenet is, how it works, etc.

The convention gave about 20 talks an hour and my Freenet talk was in the
top 20 most popular for the entire event - at one point it was in the top
15. I attribute this not to something I did, but to the level of interest
people have in decentralized anonymous communication and publication.

The audience for this is laypeople but my slides are here, if anybody cares:
http://presentations.penguicon.org/?download=Penguicon+2017%2FNo+Gods%2C+No+Servers.pdf

Finally, I've created a night at my local hackerspace for the specific aim
of setting up darknets and getting people on FMS. I did not anticipate this
being a big event, but I have 20 RSVPs so far and I know there are some
people who are coming but do not wish to publicly acknowledge it. I did not
even promote this event.

So why am I sharing all of this? Honestly I'm surprised and encouraged at
the level of interest that has remained in Freenet. There is a lot left to
fight for and we should not allow high-profile imitations discourage us.

That's all for now,
Thanks.

[freenet-dev] VOUTE Virtual Overlay

[Michael Grube]

All,

Had an interesting discussion with Stefanie Roos this morning about her
VOUTE virtual overlay concept.

Essentially a virtual overlay is created in a tree structure, which allows
for stable and efficient routing against Pitch Black style attacks.

Please find her work below:

SSK@Q
~~e6Q7W1sxWBXO~bBDLPDap13A1bwzTJEZ-v9UsAok,mEbkm3O-fMdjh2wtvkZ1jcdH06jCKLv~JoxXadeOn0M,AQACAAE/roos-defense.odp

SSK@4kpxBxgVIWaxOppZzuknxHbeqsU0Yq5Ru0ykatl
~jGA,5FgDujaL8-6kKI6PkoUruh16IyFQBe~MFWk35ZlczEA,AQACAAE/diss-final.pdf

SSK@upySqJkEFlAQcoV3MM0H62qCzP9wD4aia2fNnhJphaA
,LN9mquodEbNixuqmEWuc8kMdsy51pPU8JgW3qPr09zw,AQACAAE/secureRoot.pdf
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Re: [freenet-dev] Should we just go ahead and redesign the website?

[Michael Grube]

Arne, he did not mention you.

I am at fault, for example, about keeping quiet on the website. I don't
think Ian was attacking a specific person here.

Let's all try to make an effort to remain on topic so we can reach a
consensus about the website. I know there are some complicated issues here,
but we cannot move forward if we don't remain on topic.

Thanks,
Mike

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

>
> Ian Clarke writes:
> > When I've raised the subject of a website redesign in the past, the only
> voices
> > I heard in response were opposed to it.
> > But it appears that some people agreed with me yet remained silent at
> the time,
> > giving me the misleading impression that I had a minority view.
>
> I did not remain silent. A year ago I said we should not do it *right
> now* (an embargo). A few months ago I said it needs to be done right.
>
> This is what I also said today.
>
> One way to do it right would be to make a new *landing page*, i.e.
> https://get.freenetproject.org
>
> That would keep all existing inbound links working and avoid putting
> more work on volunteers.
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Should we just go ahead and redesign the website?

[Michael Grube]

+1 in favor of immediate action on the website.

The wiki was really supposed to be the developer resource originally,
right? So a separate place for developer doc seems not only logical but
also something we've already wanted in the past.

On Aug 6, 2016 12:03 PM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> When I've raised the subject of a website redesign in the past, the only
> voices
> I heard in response were opposed to it.
> But it appears that some people agreed with me yet remained silent at the
> time,
> giving me the misleading impression that I had a minority view.
> I'm happy to carve off up-to $5k of that $25k right now, commission a new
> design
> on 99designs (probably around $1k), get a service like
> https://thesiteslinger.com/ to convert it to HTML (probably a few hundred
> $$ -
> I've worked with them before, they're good), and from there we can set it
> up,
> perhaps using Github Pages.
> I think we should reduce the amount of content on the main website
> significantly, limiting it to user-focussed content like explaining what
> Freenet
> is and how to use it.
> Developer docs and other more detailed information can be migrated to
> Github
> wiki and linked from the main website.
> This can be handled separately to the prioritization process.
> Thoughts?
> Ian.
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Better captcha for WOT

[Michael Grube]

FMS makes use of audio captchas. A response to abuse could be to move in
that direction as well.

On Jul 20, 2016 6:19 PM,  wrote:

> > On 20-07-16 17:05, dyn...@mail2tor.com wrote:
> >> Google research declares the simple text captcha dead. They remain
> >> difficult for human beings, but machine learning can crack them 99.9% of
> >> the time.
> >
> > While probably true, no captcha abuse on WoT has been documented so far.
> >
> >> I propose a better captcha for WOT that works like:
> >
> > Thank you for considering how WoT can be improved. Your proposal is not
> > immediately clear to me; I'll fire some questions and state some of my
> > doubts to get a better understanding.
> >
> >> - The challenge to be solved: Add the numbers presented in the puzzle
> >> series that ONLY show trees.
> >
> > I don't see what benefit having to add numbers brings over recognizing
> > characters. Digits are easier to recognize for computers (for there are
> > only 10 of them, compared to our 26 character alphabet), and addition is
> > a trivial task for computers as well.
> >
> >> - It presents 5-10 puzzles. The legit puzzles randomly sprinkled
> >> throughout.
> >
> > What do you mean by randomly sprinkled legit puzzles? All puzzles in WoT
> > are supposed to be legit. What purpose would a non-legit puzzle have? Or
> > do you envision a series of multiple "puzzles" within a single
> > captcha-like image?
> >
> >> - What puzzles look like: A number is drawn across an image backdrop of
> >> trees and other objects.
> >>
> >>
> >> That should raise the bar and not be hard to switch to.
> >
> > In my humble opinion, this statement is far from the truth.
> >
> > Consider a finite set of "tree" and "non-tree" images that is to be
> > shipped with WoT. This reduces your proposal to a captcha with an
> > alphabet extended to the cardinality of the set of images, however
> > operating on image similarity (and known classification information on
> > whether the image is a tree or not) instead of character similarity.
> >
> > The strength of captcha alternatives that are based on identification of
> > image contents, relies on the assumption that the image set (in other
> > words, the classification data) is kept private. This cannot be done for
> > WoT (the attacker could always download the source after all!), unless
> > each user would have to supply their own source of captcha images —
> > which would make setup unnecessarily hard.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Bert
> >
> > ___
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> > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
> I got nothin' :) The idea was poorly thought out. Thanks for your time
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Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

I really can't stress this enough, getting 501c3 status does take time and
money (I think the application fee was about $800 last time I checked) and
provides a lot of benefits. It's not something we should toy with.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Michael Grube <michael.gr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Unless we want to risk our 501c3 status by playing around with the
> definition of "substantial", we should probably not run any kind of
> campaign, including helping to collect signatures and send emails.
>
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Michael Grube <michael.gr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations
>>
>> " In addition, it may not be an *action organization*
>> <https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/political-and-lobbying-activities>*,
>> i.e.,* it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part
>> of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for
>> or against political candidates."
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ximin Luo <infini...@freenetproject.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the
>>> specific legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:
>>>
>>> http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html
>>>
>>> which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that
>>> costless efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.
>>>
>>> X
>>>
>>> Michael Grube:
>>> > I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal
>>> for
>>> > the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
>>> >
>>> > Tor project is probably also in violation.
>>> > On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo" <infini...@freenetproject.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Ian Clarke:
>>> >>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we
>>> are
>>> >> a 501c3
>>> >>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
>>> >> activities they
>>> >>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that
>>> the
>>> >> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting
>>> against
>>> >> Rule 41.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
>>> >> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this
>>> is
>>> >> less likely.
>>> >>
>>> >> X
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>>> >> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>>> >> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>>> >> ___
>>> >> Devl mailing list
>>> >> Devl@freenetproject.org
>>> >> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>> > ___
>>> > Devl mailing list
>>> > Devl@freenetproject.org
>>> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>>> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>>> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

Unless we want to risk our 501c3 status by playing around with the
definition of "substantial", we should probably not run any kind of
campaign, including helping to collect signatures and send emails.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Michael Grube <michael.gr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations
>
> " In addition, it may not be an *action organization*
> <https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/political-and-lobbying-activities>*,
> i.e.,* it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part
> of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for
> or against political candidates."
>
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ximin Luo <infini...@freenetproject.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the
>> specific legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:
>>
>> http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html
>>
>> which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that costless
>> efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.
>>
>> X
>>
>> Michael Grube:
>> > I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal
>> for
>> > the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
>> >
>> > Tor project is probably also in violation.
>> > On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo" <infini...@freenetproject.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Ian Clarke:
>> >>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we
>> are
>> >> a 501c3
>> >>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
>> >> activities they
>> >>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>> >>
>> >> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the
>> >> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting
>> against
>> >> Rule 41.
>> >>
>> >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>> >>
>> >> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
>> >> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is
>> >> less likely.
>> >>
>> >> X
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>> >> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>> >> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>> >> ___
>> >> Devl mailing list
>> >> Devl@freenetproject.org
>> >> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>> > ___
>> > Devl mailing list
>> > Devl@freenetproject.org
>> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>> ___
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>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations

" In addition, it may not be an *action organization*
<https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/political-and-lobbying-activities>*,
i.e.,* it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of
its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or
against political candidates."

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ximin Luo <infini...@freenetproject.org>
wrote:

> Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the
> specific legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:
>
> http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html
>
> which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that costless
> efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.
>
> X
>
> Michael Grube:
> > I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal for
> > the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
> >
> > Tor project is probably also in violation.
> > On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo" <infini...@freenetproject.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Ian Clarke:
> >>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we
> are
> >> a 501c3
> >>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
> >> activities they
> >>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
> >>
> >> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the
> >> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting
> against
> >> Rule 41.
> >>
> >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
> >>
> >> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
> >> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is
> >> less likely.
> >>
> >> X
> >>
> >> --
> >> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> >> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
> >> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
> >> ___
> >> Devl mailing list
> >> Devl@freenetproject.org
> >> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> > ___
> > Devl mailing list
> > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >
>
>
> --
> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
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Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal for
the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.

Tor project is probably also in violation.
On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo"  wrote:

> Ian Clarke:
> > Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we are
> a 501c3
> > non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
> activities they
> > can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>
> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the
> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting against
> Rule 41.
>
> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>
> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is
> less likely.
>
> X
>
> --
> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
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Re: [freenet-dev] HotPETs talk on Freenet overlay services

[Michael Grube]

I love it! Do you mind if I share this more broadly?

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Prometheas 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We got word that our talk proposal "Eclipse and Re-Emergence of
> Anonymous P2P Storage Network Overlay Services" [0] was accepted at
> HotPETs [1].
>
> The motivation is to illustrate the capabilities of Freenet overlay
> services (aka plugins) and showcase what has been built so far. We
> suggest that in some cases, eg for whistleblowing and blogging
> platforms, they offer better security guarantees compared to the
> extensively used Tor onion services.
>
> Comments are welcome!
> Best,
> Marios
>
> [0]
>
> http://www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/M.Isaakidis/p/isaakidis-p2pstorageservices-hotpets16.pdf
> [1] https://www.petsymposium.org/2016/hotpets.php
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Experiments in Fractal Addressing Space

[Michael Grube]

Hi again everyone,

I want to dive into a little bit more detail about how a fractal addressing
space might provide consistency without taking a major hit to performance.

Based on the system I described in the previous post, I want to talk about
how fractals might be combined with small world routing. There are
basically 2 possibilities that I see:

1) A strict fractal lattice is obtained via Metropolis-Hastings MCMC. Each
fractal generation continues swapping locations in our (0,1) space with
Sandberg's original acceptance function until a small world network is
created. This means search performance turns into Log base2 (n) + log^2(n)
on average.

2) A small world fractal lattice is obtained via Metropolis-Hastings MCMC.
If we know a proportion of how many long range links each node *should*
have, this approach may still resist Pitch Black. I am still experimenting
with this possibility.

When a node joins the darknet(I am not considering any opennet cases), we
may simply decide to choose a location in a generation that fits best with
our fractal neighborhood. At that point we may pick a location within that
fractal generation at random and swap until we have our desired
distribution of neighbors.

I would like to release more information about scalability but this work is
still being reviewed. It looks promising at the moment.

Unfortunately I had less time to write this than I had originally
anticipated. I will make my best effort to continue posting an informal
explanation but I will be occupied for the next 5 days or so. I will
attempt to release a draft of the paper to the list by the end of the week.

Thanks again.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Michael Grube <michael.gr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Before you read this, I am writing the results more fomally in a paper.
> I'll be using some informal language and making some assumptions about your
> knowledge in this post. I really just wanted to get the concepts out there
> in case I'm hit by a bus or something.
>
> I wanted to share some experiments I've been doing. I think they may have
> interesting applications for Freenet, especially in terms of scalability,
> churn and the pitch black attack.
>
> Pitch Black is a severe problem for darknet routing. The heart of the
> exploit is that we have no way to check our neighbor's honesty about who
> their friends are. There have been some valiant attempts to solve this
> problem including an interesting attempt to abandon swapping altogether and
> use local markov chains. A problem with this is that the distribution of
> the keyspace responsibility becomes uneven and so we can naturally expect
> data loss.
>
> What if the addressing space were fractal? If our space becomes fractal,
> we have a large(theoretically infinite) number of discrete buckets that we
> can partition our space into. The self-similar property of all fractals
> also means that we should have a local way to check the distribution of our
> neighbors while maintaining a global structure. If a swap is proposed, we
> should simply be able to ask if it brings our neighborhood closer or
> further away from a fractal neighbor distribution. It also turns out that
> greedy routing in a fractal can achieve small world performance
> <http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0612326v1.pdf> if we want to go that
> route.
>
> In my example, I will be using the complement of the cantor set, which is
> also a binary tree. This is not a coincidence - I'd like to demonstrate
> that using a fractal addressing system can still allow us to keep decent
> performance.
>
> Let's map our keyspace with the complement of the cantor set. This means
> that instead of removing 1/3rd of the space at every iteration, we will
> fill space instead. Iteration 1 is 1/3rd of the keyspace, iteration 2 is
> (1/6) and so on.  We now have a 2-dimensional address for every location in
> the network - the generation of the fractal that a position corresponds to
> and the value between (0,1).
>
> To make this easier to parse, here are some examples of node locations:
> (0.359465966, 1)
> (0.740859445, 2)
> (0.981788632, 9)
>
> The thought behind this is that if every node assumes a position in a
> fractally addressed space, there can be an expected local distribution of
> neighbors with respect to a given generation. So how do we calculate the
> fit of our neighborhood against the the fit of a proposed configuration?
>
> For a strict fractal lattice, we want the distribution of our neighbors to
> be:
>
> Fd -The fractal iteration distance -  1/3d where d is distance between
> generations
> Gn - The global probability of that neighbor, 1/3n where n is the
> generation our neighbor belongs to
> Gs - The global probability of us being in our generation 1/3s where s is
> our gen

[freenet-dev] Experiments in Fractal Addressing Space

[Michael Grube]

Hi everyone,

Before you read this, I am writing the results more fomally in a paper.
I'll be using some informal language and making some assumptions about your
knowledge in this post. I really just wanted to get the concepts out there
in case I'm hit by a bus or something.

I wanted to share some experiments I've been doing. I think they may have
interesting applications for Freenet, especially in terms of scalability,
churn and the pitch black attack.

Pitch Black is a severe problem for darknet routing. The heart of the
exploit is that we have no way to check our neighbor's honesty about who
their friends are. There have been some valiant attempts to solve this
problem including an interesting attempt to abandon swapping altogether and
use local markov chains. A problem with this is that the distribution of
the keyspace responsibility becomes uneven and so we can naturally expect
data loss.

What if the addressing space were fractal? If our space becomes fractal, we
have a large(theoretically infinite) number of discrete buckets that we can
partition our space into. The self-similar property of all fractals also
means that we should have a local way to check the distribution of our
neighbors while maintaining a global structure. If a swap is proposed, we
should simply be able to ask if it brings our neighborhood closer or
further away from a fractal neighbor distribution. It also turns out that
greedy routing in a fractal can achieve small world performance
 if we want to go that route.

In my example, I will be using the complement of the cantor set, which is
also a binary tree. This is not a coincidence - I'd like to demonstrate
that using a fractal addressing system can still allow us to keep decent
performance.

Let's map our keyspace with the complement of the cantor set. This means
that instead of removing 1/3rd of the space at every iteration, we will
fill space instead. Iteration 1 is 1/3rd of the keyspace, iteration 2 is
(1/6) and so on.  We now have a 2-dimensional address for every location in
the network - the generation of the fractal that a position corresponds to
and the value between (0,1).

To make this easier to parse, here are some examples of node locations:
(0.359465966, 1)
(0.740859445, 2)
(0.981788632, 9)

The thought behind this is that if every node assumes a position in a
fractally addressed space, there can be an expected local distribution of
neighbors with respect to a given generation. So how do we calculate the
fit of our neighborhood against the the fit of a proposed configuration?

For a strict fractal lattice, we want the distribution of our neighbors to
be:

Fd -The fractal iteration distance -  1/3d where d is distance between
generations
Gn - The global probability of that neighbor, 1/3n where n is the
generation our neighbor belongs to
Gs - The global probability of us being in our generation 1/3s where s is
our generation

We calculate what our local distribution *should* be for a neighbor in some
generation by using:

(Fd*Gn)/Gs

We can then ask our neighbors for the location of their neighbors, which
gives us a picture of our neighborhood. Since an attacker knows who our
friends are, but not necessarily our friends friends, it is hard for them
to manipulate us into accepting an arbitrary position in the fractal
dimension.

I will write a second post tomorrow explaining these concepts in greater
detail and include some graphs and code.

Thanks and bye for now.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Proposal for a democratic process to efficiently allocate resources (including the $25k)

[Michael Grube]

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> I've written a proposal for how we can do this, based on my learnings over
> a
> decade and a half of managing software projects (mostly commercial).
> Feedback from the core team has been positive so-far, with the main
> objection
> being that it may be too elaborate for our needs.


Our needs are varied and hard to estimate. It probably fits.


> I think it can be implemented
> easily enough with intelligent use of Google Docs and a little bit of elbow
> grease, which I'm ok with providing if others can help.
> https://gist.github.com/sanity/4cf3b1c3484bdb9926d71bc9c4fc0341
> Thoughts?
>

I think it's a good start. I wonder if it would be helpful to define our
categories only by measurable metrics. Subjective categories may be too
easy to spend unnecessary amounts of time and energy on with no final
result.


> Ian.
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] DuckDuckGo has donated $25k to Freenet

[Michael Grube]

That's great!

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> It should now be safe to announce that DuckDuckGo has donated $25k to
> Freenet.
> Will follow-up with discussion with my thoughts on some processes we can
> use to
> decide how to allocate it.
> Ian.
> -- Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Mitigate the Pitch Black attack (the simulation works)

[Michael Grube]

Hi Stefanie,

My apologies, I missed that you were talking about a different attack.

Regardless, I agree that the presented solutions are not ideal.

Thanks,
Michael

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Michael Grube <michael.gr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Stefanie,
>
> I'm just clarifying for my own sake - you're talking about pitch black,
> correct? There are some implications which may involve capturing routing
> requests, but essentially the attack destroys the small world routing
> efficiency of Sandberg's work by propagating fixed locations throughout the
> network by lying about the locations of neighbors. It does not matter
> terribly much if the attacker is highly connected or not - 2 attackers can
> cripple a network of about 1000 or so nodes given adequate time.
>
> For the record I agree completely that the solutions demonstrated by my
> simulation work are not ideal. I'm still working on some countermeasures
> which I hope to release the code for soon.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
>
> Thanks!
> Michael
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Stefanie Roos <
> stefanie.r...@tu-dresden.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> if I remember correctly, the thought behind i) was that the attacker has
>> a very high probability
>> to capture routing requests that pass one of its neighbors, so the
>> strength of the attacker should depend on the ttl of the routing and the
>> connectivity/degree of the attacker (=factors influencing the likelihood
>> that a neighbor is on the route), I guess.
>>
>> Yes, as stated, it is definitively an improvement over the current
>> algorithm. Just pointing out that it might still have some issues and I
>> am currently unsure if they are serious threats or can be disregarded :)
>> My guess would be that the problem only arises if the attacker has a lot
>> of neighbors, but any concrete results reinforcing that guess would of
>> course be better.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19.04.2016 21:57, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
>> > Hi Stef,
>> >
>> > Thank you for your answer!
>> >
>> > I’m sorry that it took me long to answer back. I somehow missed a lot of
>> > messages the past three months… (I’m only now catching up bit by bit)
>> >
>> > i) only works when the attacker is directly connected to the target,
>> >right? That would allow them to fix one node per active connection to
>> >a bad position, and for that they have to be already connected via
>> >darknet, so they have to social engineer their way to the nodes.
>> >
>> > I would think that both problems are much weaker in impact — though
>> > that’s easy compared to the pitch black attack which effectively allowed
>> > poisoning the network with negligible cost.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> > Arne
>> >
>> > Stefanie Roos writes:
>> >
>> >> Hi Arne,
>> >>
>> >> looks fine in general and seems to prevent the PitchBlack Attack in its
>> >> current form.
>> >> I am slightly worried about some modified versions of the attack, which
>> >> take the protection scheme into account.
>> >>
>> >> Does the following attack work?
>> >> Pitch Black Attack: attacker(s) always provide location l1
>> >> In addition, they
>> >> i) pretend to have location l2, reasonably far from l1
>> >> ii) whenever nodes route for a location loc, an attacker on the route
>> >> replies with an loc' close to loc
>> >>
>> >> i) should encourage neighbors to forward to the attacker (because it
>> >> seems to be one of the few nodes not close to l1) and ii) ensures that
>> >> nodes don't swap to random location
>> >>
>> >> => I don't think this is a probably as long as the attacker has few
>> >> connections (and is thus unlikely to be on the route) but will be a
>> >> problem for more powerful attackers, so it might be good to check how
>> >> much it changes your results and determine how strong an attacker has
>> to
>> >> be (in terms of connections to honest nodes or so).
>> >>
>> >> A second problem might be presented by an attacker who does not perform
>> >> a PitchBlack Attack, but upon receiving a routing request for the
>> >> closest node to location loc always replies with a fake location at a
>> >> large distance to loc, in order to achieve a randomi

Re: [freenet-dev] Mitigate the Pitch Black attack (the simulation works)

[Michael Grube]

 that the defense against the Pitch Black Attack works:
> >>> A small number of attackers can no longer kill parts of the keyspace
> and
> >>> can also no longer make certain parts of the keyspace inaccessible.
> >>>
> >>> Attackers can still limit the convergence of the network towards a
> >>> reproduction of the small world network, but since we know that Opennet
> >>> works quite well with 30% backoff, this limited convergence should
> >>> suffice for efficient routing.
> >>>
> >>> I also identified two possible ways to make the algorithm more
> efficient.
> >>>
> >>> The fix does not need to know the size of the network. The only global
> >>> information it needs is routing to random locations.
> >>>
> >>> In this mail I first describe simulator and Pitch Black Attack.
> >>> Afterwards I describe the fix. The fix was originally proposed by Oskar
> >>> Sandberg. He did all the hard work, I just describe it here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ## Graphics
> >>>
> >>> -
> http://draketo.de/dateien/freenet/fix-pitch-black-400-mean-median-median2-peerdist.png
> >>> -
> http://draketo.de/dateien/freenet/fix-pitch-black-400-mean-median-median2-lochist.png
> >>>
> >>> (because that’s what most people really want ☺)
> >>>
> >>> These show that the fix prevents complete fracturing of the keyspace:
> It
> >>> recreates the short connections.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ## The simulator
> >>>
> >>> Most of the simulation is the work of Michael Grube. I just fixed a
> >>> small bug.
> >>>
> >>> - Michaels Repo: http://github.com/mgrube/pbsim
> >>> - My Repo: http://github.com/ArneBab/pbsim
> >>>
> >>> The network starts with a random network and then optimizes it — either
> >>> with clean swapping or under attack without and with different
> >>> countermeasures.
> >>>
> >>> To run the simulation, run
> >>>
> >>> ./testfixpitchblack.py
> >>>
> >>> You need pylab and networkx (links are in README.md).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ## The Pitch Black Attack (the problem)
> >>>
> >>> Optimizing the network with swapping works pretty well without attacks
> >>> (within the mathematical limits[1]) — as shown in the simulation
> ("clean
> >>> swapping network"). But this can currently be broken easily, even by a
> >>> single attacker, using the Pitch Black Attack.[3]
> >>>
> >>> Swapping exchanges keys and implicitly trusts randomly selected
> >>> nodes. Two nodes compare their peers, and if they determine that
> >>> exchanging their locations improves the link length distribution to
> >>> their respective group of peers, they swap the locations. Node A now
> has
> >>> the former location of node B and node B has the former location of
> node A.
> >>>
> >>> Normally that’s no problem: The probability that this trust is
> >>> violated is just the proportion of attackers in the network. So some
> >>> swapping will wrong, but this will only happen rarely.
> >>>
> >>> There is one lasting effect however: If node B always hands out the
> same
> >>> location when swapping, this location will stay in the network
> >>> indefinitely and former location of node A will be lost. This is slow,
> >>> only one key can be killed per swapping, but highly effective.
> >>>
> >>> Using the Pitch Black Attack, attackers can remove selected locations
> >>> From the network (which allows for censorship by making selected files
> >>> with known keys inaccessible, because nodes with their content change
> >>> to locations which won’t be searched for this content).
> >>>
> >>> The fix for this has been pending since 2008 because “We have solutions
> >>> for this but they are still being tested.”
> >>> (https://freenetproject.org/about.html#papers). I consider this
> testing
> >>> to be done with this email. The fix works (described as follows).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ## Approach
> >>>
> >>> To fix the Pitch Black Attack nodes route to a random location and
> check
> >>> the distance of the closest node they can reach. If this distance

Re: [freenet-dev] Decentralized Web Summit in San Francisco, by the Internet Archive, June 8th

[Michael Grube]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_...@web.de>
wrote:

>
> Michael Grube writes:
>
> > If nobody would object, I can also check my availability. If both of us
> are
> > available, we could simply both go - right?
>
> That sounds ideal, I’d say :)
>
> Are you up for asking them whether you can join for the Freenet project?
>

Yes. I'll add that to my todo list and let you know how it goes.



>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Decentralized Web Summit in San Francisco, by the Internet Archive, June 8th

[Michael Grube]

If nobody would object, I can also check my availability. If both of us are
available, we could simply both go - right?
On Apr 19, 2016 1:29 PM, "Dan Roberts"  wrote:

> Hi xor,
>  Thanks for the kind words. I think hiding behind semi-real-time text
> messaging has allowed me to seem a bit better than I really am ;-) . But
> regardless, *if nobody objects* I'm happy to be an emissary as best I can,
> especially since I admit at least I'm probably better than nobody. I'll
> look into my availability for that time.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
> On Apr 19, 2016 1:50 AM,  wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 11, 2016 07:29:55 AM Dan Roberts wrote:
> > > I'm happy to attend (I commute farther for school every day), but I'm
> not
> > > the representative Freenet needs to be there to answer difficult
> > questions.
> > > I also know I have a commitment that week, but I don't *think* it
> > > conflicts...
> >
> > I beg to differ :) You do well in IRC team discussion, you're both
> > technically
> > and socially qualified.
> > And most people who are new to Freenet are happy with a basic explanation
> > how
> > it works, and then quickly drift away into discussions about whether it
> is
> > politically correct to have true freedom of speech :D
> > So don't expect them to even ask that much technical details. The social
> > aspects are where you can sell it, and the arguments there aren't
> > difficult.
> > If you want to know all I've gathered over the years, I'd be happy if you
> > could figure out what the proper place in the Wiki would be, and point me
> > to
> > it on IRC.
> >
> > In case that doesn't convince you yet - we used to have this kind of
> public
> > attention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC6R6GeAqM
> > And nowadays, we barely hit any conferences. Partly due to decreased
> public
> > interest, but probably mostly due to lack of people to just do it.
> > So go for it :)
> >
> > If you're willing: Can you contact them soonish? We always do things too
> > late,
> > better do it ASAP. (Less than 2 months of time left.)
> > If you can't go there, it would be nice if you could at least give a
> > definite
> > no, so maybe someone else can go.
> > Considering how much data they store, the Internet Archive must have
> > *massive*
> > funding, so this is a big opportunity.
> >
> > In either case: Thanks for considering this! :)
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [freenet-dev] freenetproject.org traffic: Pretty good

[Michael Grube]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimilarWeb

"In June 2013, SimilarWeb released SimilarWeb PRO, an advanced version of
the free and general purpose SimilarWeb.[16]
 In addition,
SimilarWeb provides its data in form of API
.[17]
 SimilarWeb uses
data extracted from four main sources: 1) A panel of web surfers made of
millions of anonymous users equipped with a portfolio of apps, browser
plugins, desktop extensions and software; 2) Global and Local ISPs; 3) Web
traffic directly measured from a learning set of selected websites and
intended for specialized estimation algorithms; 4) A colony of web crawlers
that scan the entire Web."

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Matthew Toseland  wrote:

> On 10/03/16 20:40, hyazin...@emailn.de wrote:
> > Have a look at this:
> https://www.similarweb.com/website/freenetproject.org
> > Looks pretty good. It's new that China is in the TOP 5 of visitors
> splitted by origins...
>
> How is that possible? We've been blocked for over a decade - both the
> website and the protocol (at least 0.5). And the current Chinese
> government is moving in the direction of more censorship rather than less.
>
> Also how does this work, I thought we got rid of third party analytics?
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Data

[Michael Grube]

A quick correction, this is probe data, not data from a seed node.
On Feb 17, 2016 9:56 AM, "Michael Grube" <michael.gr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All,
>
> Some 2 months ago, Steve was nice enough to collect anonymous data from a
> seednode and share it with me to do analysis on it. I am currently swamped
> and figured this information should be accessible to the public anyway.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0lQIisqJ2blMTZ0ZlVNcmxXSXc
>
> Enjoy, and ask me or Steve if you have questions.
>
> Thanks
>
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[freenet-dev] Freenet Data

[Michael Grube]

All,

Some 2 months ago, Steve was nice enough to collect anonymous data from a
seednode and share it with me to do analysis on it. I am currently swamped
and figured this information should be accessible to the public anyway.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0lQIisqJ2blMTZ0ZlVNcmxXSXc

Enjoy, and ask me or Steve if you have questions.

Thanks
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Re: [freenet-dev] Mitigate the Pitch Black attack (the simulation works)

[Michael Grube]

All,

Please excuse my absence. I have been very preoccupied. I am OK with the
idea that we should publish and am willing to spend time assisting with
that effort.

However I should disclose that I am doing research on creating a method
very similar to Snadberg's original work, except that the network would sit
on top of a fractal lattice.

I am investigating methods to exploit the assumption of a fractal network
to detect swap proposals that are inappropriate or very out of place.

The work is shoddy and incomplete at the moment but all of my free time is
going into it. I will make people aware of results as I get them.

Thanks
On Feb 9, 2016 8:59 AM, "Stefanie Roos" <stefanie.r...@tu-dresden.de> wrote:

> Hi Arne,
>
> looks fine in general and seems to prevent the PitchBlack Attack in its
> current form.
> I am slightly worried about some modified versions of the attack, which
> take the protection scheme into account.
>
> Does the following attack work?
> Pitch Black Attack: attacker(s) always provide location l1
> In addition, they
> i) pretend to have location l2, reasonably far from l1
> ii) whenever nodes route for a location loc, an attacker on the route
> replies with an loc' close to loc
>
> i) should encourage neighbors to forward to the attacker (because it
> seems to be one of the few nodes not close to l1) and ii) ensures that
> nodes don't swap to random location
>
> => I don't think this is a probably as long as the attacker has few
> connections (and is thus unlikely to be on the route) but will be a
> problem for more powerful attackers, so it might be good to check how
> much it changes your results and determine how strong an attacker has to
> be (in terms of connections to honest nodes or so).
>
> A second problem might be presented by an attacker who does not perform
> a PitchBlack Attack, but upon receiving a routing request for the
> closest node to location loc always replies with a fake location at a
> large distance to loc, in order to achieve a randomized network (since
> the node changes its location to the random location loc while its
> current location might actually be very good).
>
> However, I think both attacks are certainly less of a problem than
> PitchBlack.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stef
>
>
>
> On 08.02.2016 12:13, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > ## Preface
> >
> > I fixed a small bug in the simulator of thesnark. With that, the
> > simulator shows that the defense against the Pitch Black Attack works:
> > A small number of attackers can no longer kill parts of the keyspace and
> > can also no longer make certain parts of the keyspace inaccessible.
> >
> > Attackers can still limit the convergence of the network towards a
> > reproduction of the small world network, but since we know that Opennet
> > works quite well with 30% backoff, this limited convergence should
> > suffice for efficient routing.
> >
> > I also identified two possible ways to make the algorithm more efficient.
> >
> > The fix does not need to know the size of the network. The only global
> > information it needs is routing to random locations.
> >
> > In this mail I first describe simulator and Pitch Black Attack.
> > Afterwards I describe the fix. The fix was originally proposed by Oskar
> > Sandberg. He did all the hard work, I just describe it here.
> >
> >
> > ## Graphics
> >
> > -
> http://draketo.de/dateien/freenet/fix-pitch-black-400-mean-median-median2-peerdist.png
> > -
> http://draketo.de/dateien/freenet/fix-pitch-black-400-mean-median-median2-lochist.png
> >
> > (because that’s what most people really want ☺)
> >
> > These show that the fix prevents complete fracturing of the keyspace: It
> > recreates the short connections.
> >
> >
> > ## The simulator
> >
> > Most of the simulation is the work of Michael Grube. I just fixed a
> > small bug.
> >
> > - Michaels Repo: http://github.com/mgrube/pbsim
> > - My Repo: http://github.com/ArneBab/pbsim
> >
> > The network starts with a random network and then optimizes it — either
> > with clean swapping or under attack without and with different
> > countermeasures.
> >
> > To run the simulation, run
> >
> > ./testfixpitchblack.py
> >
> > You need pylab and networkx (links are in README.md).
> >
> >
> > ## The Pitch Black Attack (the problem)
> >
> > Optimizing the network with swapping works pretty well without attacks
> > (within the mathematical limits[1]) — as shown in the simulation ("clean
> > swapping network").

Re: [freenet-dev] Open Encryption projects receive half a million euros of Dutch government

[Michael Grube]

I've contacted the people Bert listed explaining our interest, what Freenet
is and why I believe we qualify for funding.

Bert, don't we provide infrastructure to applications through FCP? Sure, it
can be imrpoved, but we do, right? :)

Anyway, no expectations from me personally but we'll see what happens.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Ian <i...@locut.us> wrote:

> Can't hurt to try, thanks Michael!
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Michael Grube <michael.gr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Cliche quote about missing 100% of shots not taken goes here.
> >
> >
> > If nobody else is even going to try, I suppose I will. I am not free
> until
> > this weekend but I will give it a shot.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 1:56 AM, Bert Massop <bert.mas...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > The key parts of the amendment are the following:
> > > > De indieners van dit amendement [willen] de ontwikkeling en
> versterking
> > > van encryptie ondersteunen door €0,5 miljoen te doneren aan open source
> > > encryptie projecten, zoals OpenSSL, LibreSSL, PolarSSL, etc.
> > > > […]
> > > > Het ministerie van Economische Zaken moet, in samenspraak met
> > deskundigen
> > > uit het veld, projecten selecteren die cruciaal zijn voor de
> > internationale
> > > internet infrastructuur.
> > >
> > > Or loosely translated:
> > > > The authors of this amendment aim to support the development and
> > > reinforcement of encryption by means of a donation of €0.5 million to
> > open
> > > source encryption projects, such as OpenSSL, LibreSSL, PolarSSL, etc.
> > > > […]
> > > > The Ministry of Economic Affairs must, together with field experts,
> > > select projects that are crucial for the international internet
> > > infrastructure.
> > >
> > > I deem it unlikely that Freenet would find any funding as a consequence
> > of
> > > this amendment.
> > >
> > > First, the amount is donated towards "open source encryption projects",
> > > from the rest of the amendment it follows that encryption libraries are
> > > meant—which we are not in my humble opinion. We use encryption, but we
> > > don't provide it to other applications as such.
> > >
> > > Then, I would be lying if I claimed that Freenet is, at this point,
> > crucial
> > > for the internet infrastructure. Wouldn't I? ;)
> > >
> > > If anyone would like to give it a shot regardless of the above, it
> would
> > > probably most useful to contact the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs.
> > > Their contact information is provided in [0].
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > > Bert
> > >
> > > [0]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/ministeries/ministerie-van-economische-zaken/inhoud/contact-met-ez
> > > Op 9 dec. 2015 01:05 schreef "Ian Clarke" <i...@freenetproject.org>:
> > >
> > > > Any Dutch Freeneters want to look into this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://tweakers.net/nieuws/106723/open-encryptieprojecten-krijgen-half-miljoen-euro-van-nederlandse-overheid.html
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ian Clarke
> > > > Founder, The Freenet Project
> > > > Email: i...@freenetproject.org
> > > > ___
> > > > Devl mailing list
> > > > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> > > ___
> > > Devl mailing list
> > > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> > >
> > ___
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> > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >
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Re: [freenet-dev] Possible Active Pitch Black Attack

[Michael Grube]

Very much appreciated!
On Dec 4, 2015 11:35 AM, "Bert Massop" <bert.mas...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The circle plot shows the peer location, the histogram does not. We should
> instead fix the histogram to show the peer locations.
>
> Should be 15 minutes of work at most, if I don't see a pull request by
> tomorrow I'll file one.
>
> All the best,
> Bert
> Op 4 dec. 2015 17:29 schreef "Michael Grube" <michael.gr...@gmail.com>:
>
> > If this graph is a measure of your distance from your peers we should
> > reconsider the graph title.
> > On Dec 4, 2015 11:25 AM, "Steve Dougherty" <st...@asksteved.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 12/04/2015 11:20 AM, Bert Massop wrote:
> > > > Also, the clusters all appear close to your respective node's
> > locations,
> > > as
> > > > expected, and certainly not around 0.00 (which would be on the top or
> > on
> > > > the extreme right of the circle plot, I'm not reading the code at the
> > > > moment).
> > > >
> > > > Again, I see no reason to worry.
> > >
> > > Oh, okay. That makes sense. I will say that naming a distance plot
> "Peer
> > > Location Distribution" is extraordinarily misleading.
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> > >
> > ___
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Canary

[Michael Grube]

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Matthew Toseland  wrote:

> On 02/12/15 20:34, Ian wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Victor Denisov 
> wrote:
> >
> >> This is very interesting, it is - but I'm afraid the true reason Freenet
> >> is struggling as a software development project is much, much simpler.
> >> If I can put my two kopecks' worth out there, my *personal* feeling is
> >> that the project has been lacking some sort of a "steel hand",
> >> Stalin-style, ever since Ian had stepped down.
> >>
> >> Basically, what Freenet had shown in that regard is that management "by
> >> committee" doesn't work for open-source projects just like it doesn't
> >> work in the world of commercial applications. You (developers) and we
> >> (users) desperately need a real *leader*, a person who will listen to
> >> different points of view and then make quick, binding and final
> >> decisions - which everyone will respect and adhere to, and which will
> >> end any and all discussions of the topic in question. You/we should
> >> choose *one* person and willfully grant him/her authority to make final
> >> unilateral decisions on all aspects of the project.
> >>
> >> I'm afraid that before that is done, Freenet is destined to be stuck in
> >> the development mire it currently is.
> > I'm not sure, I've definitely been very hands-off in recent years, but
> even
> > at the peak of development around 2000-2003ish I don't think anyone would
> > describe me as "Stalin-like", I always tried to act more as a
> > "facilitator", trying to encourage people to play nice and be an
> > independent arbiter.  For a while that worked pretty well, perhaps
> > partially because the constant flow of favorable publicity provided a
> > constant flow of new, enthusiastic, and (often) competent developers
> > willing to devote their time.
>
> IMHO we need to play the publicity game again. Maybe it will take a
> little while to get our pieces in place e.g. sort out the website. But
> we need to do something to get some attention, even if it's just calling
> it 0.8.
>

Yep. We actually have some really solid functionality in place right now.
Sone is awesome and was a big win. More sexy functionality and a UI
overhaul will position us very well

I also know somebody at a prominent tech publication who I may be able to
convince to cover freeenet in a favorable light, so I think we can have
that phenomenon go on again. We just need to get hacking.

Maybe I will eat my words and jump back in just to prove a point.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Canary

[Michael Grube]

" For a while that worked pretty well, perhaps partially because the
constant flow of favorable publicity provided a constant flow of new,
enthusiastic, and (often) competent developers willing to devote their
time."

This, more or less. Freenet is simply not experiencing the positive
feedback loop it used to be in. There's no single way to get back into the
grove outside of simply working until you have something that people want
to use. The situation might look dire from the discussions we're having,
but active participation from developers will go a long way as long as the
code is QA'ed.


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Ian  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Victor Denisov  wrote:
>
> >
> > This is very interesting, it is - but I'm afraid the true reason Freenet
> > is struggling as a software development project is much, much simpler.
> > If I can put my two kopecks' worth out there, my *personal* feeling is
> > that the project has been lacking some sort of a "steel hand",
> > Stalin-style, ever since Ian had stepped down.
> >
> > Basically, what Freenet had shown in that regard is that management "by
> > committee" doesn't work for open-source projects just like it doesn't
> > work in the world of commercial applications. You (developers) and we
> > (users) desperately need a real *leader*, a person who will listen to
> > different points of view and then make quick, binding and final
> > decisions - which everyone will respect and adhere to, and which will
> > end any and all discussions of the topic in question. You/we should
> > choose *one* person and willfully grant him/her authority to make final
> > unilateral decisions on all aspects of the project.
> >
> > I'm afraid that before that is done, Freenet is destined to be stuck in
> > the development mire it currently is.
>
>
> I'm not sure, I've definitely been very hands-off in recent years, but even
> at the peak of development around 2000-2003ish I don't think anyone would
> describe me as "Stalin-like", I always tried to act more as a
> "facilitator", trying to encourage people to play nice and be an
> independent arbiter.  For a while that worked pretty well, perhaps
> partially because the constant flow of favorable publicity provided a
> constant flow of new, enthusiastic, and (often) competent developers
> willing to devote their time.
>
> I don't think a "Stalin-like" approach will work for most open source
> projects because unlike Stalinist Russia, people voluntarily need to want
> to be part of your project or they'll just walk away.
>
> That being said, I do think the project would significantly benefit from a
> new and much more engaged leader, ideally with project management
> experience, but unfortunately such people do not grow on trees when you
> need them to work voluntarily.  Should we find such a person I would
> support them in a heartbeat.
>
> Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Rebooted (without rewriting everything, pay for opennet)

[Michael Grube]

On Nov 30, 2015 11:09 AM, "Bert Massop" <bert.mas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Michael Grube <michael.gr...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > This is true of everything that money can buy. Which is everything, with
> >> the possible (and slightly dubious) exception of social capital /
> >> friends. A big global friend-to-friend darknet is a good long term
> >> solution but the problem is how to get to that point.
> >
> >
> > Please, please PLEASE don't murder me for suggesting this, but what if
we
> > used social media to bootstrap network connectivity?
>
> How is that different from Darknet?

I have no interest in hijacking the conversation. Spreading darknet
connections by creating social media applications to quickly and easily
exchange noderefs is the rough idea. If you want to discuss it further we
can create a new thread.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Rebooted (without rewriting everything, pay for opennet)

[Michael Grube]

This is true of everything that money can buy. Which is everything, with
> the possible (and slightly dubious) exception of social capital /
> friends. A big global friend-to-friend darknet is a good long term
> solution but the problem is how to get to that point.


Please, please PLEASE don't murder me for suggesting this, but what if we
used social media to bootstrap network connectivity?
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Re: [freenet-dev] My project

[Michael Grube]

Hey toad,

It's nice to see you back in the community. You know, NS2 can actually
simulate more or less anything you can think of with quite a bit of
accuracy. I know there are also extensions to add parallelism. You may want
to consider writing a Freenet library for ns2 as on option because it would
make developing simulations easier for others as well.

I can appreciate that Java is nicer in some ways because you can build it
out into production code more easily, but I'd encourage you to weigh the
pros and cons.
On Nov 30, 2015 4:52 PM, "Matthew Toseland"  wrote:

> My project for university this year involves improving the efficiency of
> simulations of Freenet (by configurably bypassing the lower layers) and
> using that to test load management. Ideally I'd like to simulate The
> Patch and show that it causes problems, and simulate some of the
> proposed improvements to the current load management. It has to be my
> own work but I will be posting the branches on my Github repository,
> since I'd like it to be merged; comments are welcome. I hope to make
> substantial progress on it over the Christmas vacation, that is, from
> now until January...
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Thoughts on website

[Michael Grube]

Should the website maybe also mention Freenet's 501c3 status near the
donation bar?
On Nov 4, 2015 10:34 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> I like the donation bar, and the website is a huge improvement.
>
> However, I'm still very concerned about how much blank space there is on
> our front page, while you have to scroll down to see any kind of real
> explanation of what Freenet is.  The bulk of the information is below the
> fold.  I really think the layout is all wrong here, and given that it's the
> landing page, it is absolutely critical that we get it right.
>
> I'm also not a fan of the scrollbox as the primary means to explain what
> Freenet is (it get's price of place in the middle of the page).  I find it
> pretty cumbersome.  It might be good off to the side, but not right in the
> middle of the first page people see (surrounded by mostly blank space).
>
> Can anyone think of any other well-designed website that has so much empty
> space above the fold when the page is first loaded?  I guess you could say
> that Google does, but they have far less explaining to do.
>
> I've submitted it for feedback here:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/design_critiques/comments/3ri38h/we_recently_redesigned_our_website_would_love/
>
> Ian.
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] A bold idea for discussion: "Freenet 2"

[Michael Grube]

Bold indeed.

Necessary, in my opinion. The complexity that the project will ultimately
face due to disparate and poorly documented code will eventually outweigh
the benefits even of holding on to current users.

The currently complex code also means that Freenet may become a security
joke, which is not acceptable.

My contributions have been limited but I believe this would be a step in
the right direction.

Thanks,
Mike

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Ian  wrote:

> For those that appear to be craving a "bold new strategy", one thing I've
> proposed in the past would be to put the main Freenet codebase in
> "maintenance mode", and throw our resources behind
> http://tahrirproject.org/
> (possibly renaming it "Freenet 2" since Tahrir is a terrible name).
>
> Tahrir addresses several key concerns:
>
>- The people we actually want to help, those in China, Iran, etc, often
>have very constrained bandwidth.  Tahrir is designed for this, Freenet
> is a
>bandwidth hog
>- Tahrir is designed for a Twitter/Facebook type use-case
>("microblogging"), which has proven very powerful in terms of promoting
>political change
>- It's a fresh-ish codebase, much smaller, although needs some cobwebs
>blown off
>- Can incorporate a mixnet, but actually better suited to a mixnet than
>Tor because latency is less of an issue
>
> Clearly, this would not be a direct successor to Freenet, it would not be
> backwards compatible, and would be designed for a different (but perhaps
> more current) use-case.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] TAILS inclusion by creating .deb package

[Michael Grube]

This offer is still open, by the way.

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 7:22 AM, xor x...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 On Friday, December 12, 2014 05:12:40 PM Michael Grube wrote:
  To add incentive, I will send $50 in BTC to anybody who creates a Debian
  compatible package.
 
  Thanks.

 Thank you. Added to bugtracker entry:
 https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=6268
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Re: [freenet-dev] TAILS inclusion by creating .deb package

[Michael Grube]

Perhaps this requires more than $50. I simply don't have time. I will post
offers in places outside of this list and see if I can get someone to do it.
On Dec 17, 2014 9:10 AM, Ximin Luo infini...@pwned.gg wrote:

 https://github.com/freenet/debian but it hasn't been updated for a few
 years. Feel free to try to get it to work again.

 As far as possible, this tries to follow all of Debian policy. Some things
 still need to be fixed however.

 I wish to veto any half-assed Debian package that doesn't follow policy,
 it will lead to more headache in the long run.

 Some caveats:

 - currently disables update-over-freenet. need to figure out a good way to
 interact with that
 - requires master branch of contrib, not sure if freenet has switch yet
 (still on legacy-29 last time I checked)
 - probably lots of other things, but you'll run into them when you've
 played with that repo.

 Lots of work to be done, happy hacking!

 X

 On 13/12/14 17:40, Michael Grube wrote:
  Toad,
 
  If you can point me to an up-to-date debian package, I'd be grateful and
  willing to contact the TAILS people with that package.
 
  In the absence of an up to date package that we can submit to debian, my
  offer stands.
 
  On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Matthew Toseland 
 matt...@toselandcs.co.uk
  wrote:
 
  On 12/12/14 23:00, xor wrote:
  FYI here's our relevant bugtracker entry, which contains some arguments
  for
  adding Freenet to TAILS:
 
  https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=6268
  I thought we had a debian package but not a repository? Is it currently
  not maintained? There are good reasons not to go for *official*
  inclusion at this stage IMHO but an unofficial package (including a
  repository, and updated for every release) is a good idea.
 
 


 --
 GPG: 4096R/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
 git://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git


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Re: [freenet-dev] TAILS inclusion by creating .deb package

[Michael Grube]

Toad,

If you can point me to an up-to-date debian package, I'd be grateful and
willing to contact the TAILS people with that package.

In the absence of an up to date package that we can submit to debian, my
offer stands.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Matthew Toseland matt...@toselandcs.co.uk
wrote:

 On 12/12/14 23:00, xor wrote:
  FYI here's our relevant bugtracker entry, which contains some arguments
 for
  adding Freenet to TAILS:
 
  https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=6268
 I thought we had a debian package but not a repository? Is it currently
 not maintained? There are good reasons not to go for *official*
 inclusion at this stage IMHO but an unofficial package (including a
 repository, and updated for every release) is a good idea.


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[freenet-dev] TAILS inclusion by creating .deb package

[Michael Grube]

https://tails.boum.org/contribute/meetings/201409/

Someone proposed on Redmine to include more darknets, for example freenet
and Namecoin.

We don't know Namecoin, and adding freenet seems a bad idea to someone.
Also they are not in Debian. We will close the ticket and open another one
in case some darknet packaged for Debian appears (freenet, namecoin or
others)

Getting us on TAILS would be a win. I can't commit to doing this now, but
better to make others aware in case they are able.
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Re: [freenet-dev] TAILS inclusion by creating .deb package

[Michael Grube]

To add incentive, I will send $50 in BTC to anybody who creates a Debian
compatible package.

Thanks.
On Dec 12, 2014 5:05 PM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

 https://tails.boum.org/contribute/meetings/201409/

 Someone proposed on Redmine to include more darknets, for example freenet
 and Namecoin.

 We don't know Namecoin, and adding freenet seems a bad idea to someone.
 Also they are not in Debian. We will close the ticket and open another one
 in case some darknet packaged for Debian appears (freenet, namecoin or
 others)

 Getting us on TAILS would be a win. I can't commit to doing this now, but
 better to make others aware in case they are able.

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[freenet-dev] 31c3 - We Fix the Net Assembly

[Michael Grube]

I have neither the time nor the authority to speak about the current state
of Freenet development. However if somebody is feeling brave, I wonder if
it might benefit us to be there. I first found out about Freenet years ago
by watching the talking at ccc, so if we are suffering from bad marketing
this may be a good opportunity for us.

There are two options. Our friends over at GNUNet are hosting a track
called We Fix the Net where speakers can talk about their projects.

https://gnunet.org/wefixthenet

The other option is to submit a paper:
https://frab.cccv.de/cfp/31C3

If anybody can make it out to Hamburg, it may be good for us.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter

[Michael Grube]

I hate to put it this way, but let's be coldly rational here. Please do not
take this as an offensive question: What can we offer that maidsafe cannot?
Since it will be based on 'safecoins' I'm assuming it will cost money to
use which is one advantage we have. Anything beside that though?

Blockchains are a crappy thing to put an entire set of technologies on top
of, especially since Ghash.io was capable of executing the 51% attack
earlier this year.

Should we focus on small world vs blockchain? Is this even an issue?
Curious to know what everyone thinks.
 On Nov 17, 2014 4:27 PM, Matthew Toseland mj...@cam.ac.uk wrote:

 On 17/11/14 20:46, Michael Grube wrote:
  I know I've not comment or contributed in some time now, but I just have
  some comments on this.
 
  On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Matthew Toseland mj...@cam.ac.uk
 wrote:
 
  On 16/11/14 17:50, Ian wrote:
  On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Matthew Toseland mj...@cam.ac.uk
  wrote:
  On 16/11/14 16:36, Ian Clarke wrote:
  We're in an interesting situation.  The world finally appears to
 really
  care about the things that Freenet has been about from the very
  beginning a
  decade and a half ago (most of the publicity back then viewed Freenet
  through the prism of Napster and copyright infringement).  People
  finally
  care about anonymity, privacy, government monitoring, etc.  We should
  be
  able to capitalize on this but it will take work.
  And in the meantime every wannabe clone project gets all the funding,
  and we don't, because we're old news. Yeah.
 
  I don't think it's because we're old news, although I think that's a
  perception challenge we need to address.  I think it's because we
 really
  haven't been making much of an effort to market ourselves.  In the past
  journalists came to us, and I was fairly good at communicating with
 them
  on
  the project's behalf, but we can't rely on organic press interest any
  more,
  we need to make an effort to reach out.
 
  For example, we should be perfect for a kickstarter project, we just
 need
  to do it, and do it to a high standard (good message, good quality
 video,
  etc).
  Is it actually possible to do a Kickstarter-or-one-of-its-competitors
  project if you are a social network (therefore banned from Kickstarter)
  with no physical goodies to give to donors and no intention of making a
  profit?
 
  Freenet as darknet might technically be referred to as a social network,
  but not in the commonly known sense.
 
  Physical goodies can be a low power freenet node to run, since freenet is
  ideal in 24/7 conditions anyway.
 
  I am worried about competition from maidsafe, who is a business that
 claims
  to offer everything freenet does with the ability to farm. We need to
  differentiate from or beat them, IMO.
 
  That's all, thanks.
 I think OSS projects are excluded? Kickstarter is really a business
 incubator. But I believe IndieGoGo allows more.

 Low power freenet node is something somebody interested should work
 on... long run they will be important for darknet.


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Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter

[Michael Grube]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Toseland mj...@cam.ac.uk wrote:

 On 17/11/14 21:38, Michael Grube wrote:
  I hate to put it this way, but let's be coldly rational here. Please do
 not
  take this as an offensive question: What can we offer that maidsafe
 cannot?
  Since it will be based on 'safecoins' I'm assuming it will cost money to
  use which is one advantage we have. Anything beside that though?
 Precisely for that reason it can cash in on venture capital and the
 whole Bitcoin hype engine?

 Beyond that, I don't know, don't have time to dig. Arne's site does
 mention it though.
  Blockchains are a crappy thing to put an entire set of technologies on
 top
  of, especially since Ghash.io was capable of executing the 51% attack
  earlier this year.
 
  Should we focus on small world vs blockchain? Is this even an issue?
  Curious to know what everyone thinks.
 Block chains have some advantages for spam-resistant naming and other
 stuff Freenet sucks at. I.e. Freenet needs scarcity for announcement,


All that means is there is an arbitrary associated cost based on the
hashrate for communication. This actually places power in the wealthiest
parties on the network which is not exactly conducive to free speech, but
that is a topic for a different time.


 safe KSKs, forums, search. Bitcoin/namecoin is one way to do that.

 However you also need a distributed storage mechanism, which doesn't
 have much to do with block chains.


I think maidsafe addresses the storage issue.




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[freenet-dev] Using hardware to secure opennet; was: Would you pay to join opennet?

[Michael Grube]

For what it's worth, I think there is some potential here.

If Freenet were tweaked to favor performance slightly over cryptography and
anonymous routing(I'm not suggesting we get rid of these things
completely), it might be worth attempting to sell as a very cheap cloud
service. There is a company, Space Monkey, that is employing this exact
model - the difference between them and any other file sharing platform
being that they distribute devices to their users, who end up paying very
low prices for storage. It's interesting enough to me that, with a little
bit of funding, I would like to help design and build a similar solution
based on Freenet. In fact, Freenet might have an advantage over competing
services because it's open source.  Just a thought. There are people that I
know I could pitch to and I can't be the only person on this list who can
say that. Maybe then we wouldn't have the same time and money problems. :)


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Robert Hailey wrote:

>
> On 2013/07/22 (Jul), at 12:22 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
>
> >> IMO, the company/service going away ranks pretty low in the
> implementation concerns.
> >
> > This does happen in practice. See e.g. Wikileaks. Companies can and do
> pull the plug on clients that cause press/political issues for them.
>
> What I meant, is that in the *worst case scenario* where:
>
> * we only use yubikeys,
> * we use expiring certs, and
> * yubico just pulled the plug on us
>
> Then our total investment has been:
> (1) a 100%-reusable mechanism that delivers a string to a signing server
> [and reports back], and
> (2) a single (near-zero cost) API web-call that verifies the identifier
>
> ...and if we do nothing, "certificates" will expire and break down the
> network.
>
> Then all we have to do is release an update with one change, that
> certificates that expire after date-X (a value perhaps one month before
> they pulled the plug) are considered valid.
>
> Next, we can write whatever other custom validation solution is required,
> and regardless of the identifier (paypal receipt number, validation code,
> bitcoin "from" address) we would already have the transport system needed
> (just change the help text)... and we are not "heavily invested" in this
> particular solution, nor have incurred a substantial disruption.
>
> > I'm sure there would be people who wouldn't want to go the yubikey route.
>
>
> I would be surprised if there wasn't, but (from the user's perspective) it
> is about as unsavory as "paying for freenet"... but you get a cool gadget!
>
> --
> Robert Hailey
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] New darknet routing paper may be important

[Michael Grube]

 Also, the reality may be even worse: Even without attackers, churn in the
 network causes natural degeneration; we randomise periodically to try to
 correct this.

 Note that we are probably immune to their third attack due to using a
 commit/reveal on swapping. However the first two are real enough and can't
 be beaten by commit/reveal.

 We could implement this tomorrow. What exactly do we need to determine
 before doing so? We could validate the implementation, and compare it to
 current swapping, in a many-nodes-one-VM simulator (we can simulate approx
 100 to 500 real nodes on one high end system).


That's interesting. What do you consider high end? If it will actually
help, I'll rent some cloud hardware. I'm not sure about supporting 10,000
nodes, but maybe 2 or 3 thousand from me.



 The old probe requests were intended to find the successor of a
 particular location/node, and often saw huge gaps. However they were often
 so large that I assumed it was a bug in the implementation, or a
 particularly perverse topology glitch combined with overload... if the
 latter, that's a serious problem in itself...

 The paper talks about not having peers-of-peers. We do have locations for
 peers-of-peers for FOAF routing purposes. I wonder if this is important...

 Average hops is good, but their max htl is nearly 200. This is kind of
 worrying! Fortunately we can afford some failure thanks to key-level
 redundancy...

 The new algorithm has impressive performance on big networks - swapping
 doesn't scale, LMC works a lot better with the limited number of swaps.
 Having said that, they only show 10k nodes in this paper - the slides from
 the related talk (
 http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/icsi/events/2013/03/strufe-dark-social-networking)
  suggest it works well on larger networks too; clearly swapping is running
 into scalability problems even at 10k nodes, at least with 6000|V| swaps.



 
  On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Matthew Toseland
  t...@amphibian.dyndns.orgwrote:
 
   On Tuesday 05 Mar 2013 15:57:58 Matthew Toseland wrote:
A paper accepted by INFOCOM 2013 claims to:
1) Show that our view of Kleinberg is unrealistic because we do not
 have
   the sideways lattice links - the closest connection to the target isn't
   always closer to the target than we've been so far.
2) Prove that we can't have polylog routing, and show that perverse
   cases where the best route will take us further away are increasingly
   common as networks grow, and
3) Propose a new algorithm that is provably polylog.
   
  
 http://www.p2p.tu-darmstadt.de/publications/details/?no_cache=1tx_bibtex_pi1[pub_id]=TUD-CS-2013-0036
(A Contribution to Analyzing and Enhancing Darknet Routing, Roos 
   Strufe)
   
Performance simulations show it is similar to ours or better
 depending
   on the properties of the network, via a parameter C, the maximal
 distance
   to the closest neighbor over all nodes, i.e. if our closest links are
   close enough, our current algorithm should work, but if not, their
 version
   is significantly faster.
   
The new algorithm changes backtracking and keeps a list of marked
 nodes
   - all nodes visited AFAICS, or at least nodes where it backtracked.
   Obviously this has security implications, but on darknet this is less
   important than on opennet, and we really should have a separate tunnel
   setup system for the very paranoid (e.g. based on Pisces).
   
Having said that:
- All the topologies simulated showed acceptable HTL for a 100,000
 node
   network, even using our current simplistic algorithm. Granted that's
   somewhat idealized...
- We can use redundancy to some degree to avoid perverse parts of the
   keyspace breaking important functionality. I've suspected that
 perverse
   parts of the keyspace exist for some time, and that seems to be the
   paper's main concern; and it does not solve the problem either, it
 merely
   limits it.
- Right now hardly anyone uses darknet, and Michael Grube still
 hasn't
   finished dealing with Pitch Black.
   
His homepage also has some rather vague ideas under open theses on
   censorship attacks on opennet via flooding; I suspect this was written
 by
   his supervisor who may not have investigated the matter fully. IMHO
   flooding opennet is a rather expensive attack, it's probably much
 easier to
   MAST your target and take them offline IRL! :)
http://www.p2p.tu-darmstadt.de/people/stefanie-roos/
   
   And they provide a new swapping algorithm too, which is simpler to
   implement, only uses local information, is faster and far more attack
   resistant:
  
  
 http://www.ukp.tu-darmstadt.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Group_P2P/share/publications/Attack_Resistant_Network_Embeddings_for_Darknets.pdf
  
   Now if only we really had a 10,000 node darknet to run these algorithms
   on! Making it easy to build a darknet has to be a high priority.
  
 

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Re: [freenet-dev] New darknet routing paper may be important

[Michael Grube]

I've rented a machine with 24GB ram and 8 cores. Matthew has the login
info. Hopefully others can donate more testing resources.


On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Matthew Toseland
t...@amphibian.dyndns.orgwrote:

 On Friday 03 May 2013 13:31:04 Michael Grube wrote:
  
   Also, the reality may be even worse: Even without attackers, churn in
 the
   network causes natural degeneration; we randomise periodically to
 try to
   correct this.
  
   Note that we are probably immune to their third attack due to using a
   commit/reveal on swapping. However the first two are real enough and
 can't
   be beaten by commit/reveal.
  
   We could implement this tomorrow. What exactly do we need to determine
   before doing so? We could validate the implementation, and compare it
 to
   current swapping, in a many-nodes-one-VM simulator (we can simulate
 approx
   100 to 500 real nodes on one high end system).
  
 
  That's interesting. What do you consider high end? If it will actually
  help, I'll rent some cloud hardware. I'm not sure about supporting 10,000
  nodes, but maybe 2 or 3 thousand from me.

 Relatively high CPU and RAM. It's only needed because we still encrypt, of
 course. We could make this much more efficient by modifying the node a bit.

 Obviously we slow things down a lot, run relatively few requests, small
 stores etc.

 See freenet/node/simulator/RealNode*Test

 Note that I've never distributed this between multiple systems...

 It's a spectacularly inefficient simulation, but since it uses the real
 code, it's useful for sanity checking. Might be worth making it more
 efficient in future...

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Re: [freenet-dev] New darknet routing paper may be important

[Michael Grube]

So this paper is definitely interesting. One thing we should ask ourselves,
though, is if we are OK with there being a non-uniform key distribution.
Seems essential to me.

This might be a good temporary solution though. Doing markov chains with
neighbors is a decent idea. The question is if we can replace it with a
function whose output is equally hard to forge but also fairly random.
There may be some simple operation we can perform on the output to make the
distribution more equal.

Also, I'm seeing their simulator source code but not their implementation
code.


On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Matthew Toseland
t...@amphibian.dyndns.orgwrote:

 On Tuesday 05 Mar 2013 15:57:58 Matthew Toseland wrote:
  A paper accepted by INFOCOM 2013 claims to:
  1) Show that our view of Kleinberg is unrealistic because we do not have
 the sideways lattice links - the closest connection to the target isn't
 always closer to the target than we've been so far.
  2) Prove that we can't have polylog routing, and show that perverse
 cases where the best route will take us further away are increasingly
 common as networks grow, and
  3) Propose a new algorithm that is provably polylog.
 
 http://www.p2p.tu-darmstadt.de/publications/details/?no_cache=1tx_bibtex_pi1[pub_id]=TUD-CS-2013-0036
  (A Contribution to Analyzing and Enhancing Darknet Routing, Roos 
 Strufe)
 
  Performance simulations show it is similar to ours or better depending
 on the properties of the network, via a parameter C, the maximal distance
 to the closest neighbor over all nodes, i.e. if our closest links are
 close enough, our current algorithm should work, but if not, their version
 is significantly faster.
 
  The new algorithm changes backtracking and keeps a list of marked nodes
 - all nodes visited AFAICS, or at least nodes where it backtracked.
 Obviously this has security implications, but on darknet this is less
 important than on opennet, and we really should have a separate tunnel
 setup system for the very paranoid (e.g. based on Pisces).
 
  Having said that:
  - All the topologies simulated showed acceptable HTL for a 100,000 node
 network, even using our current simplistic algorithm. Granted that's
 somewhat idealized...
  - We can use redundancy to some degree to avoid perverse parts of the
 keyspace breaking important functionality. I've suspected that perverse
 parts of the keyspace exist for some time, and that seems to be the
 paper's main concern; and it does not solve the problem either, it merely
 limits it.
  - Right now hardly anyone uses darknet, and Michael Grube still hasn't
 finished dealing with Pitch Black.
 
  His homepage also has some rather vague ideas under open theses on
 censorship attacks on opennet via flooding; I suspect this was written by
 his supervisor who may not have investigated the matter fully. IMHO
 flooding opennet is a rather expensive attack, it's probably much easier to
 MAST your target and take them offline IRL! :)
  http://www.p2p.tu-darmstadt.de/people/stefanie-roos/
 
 And they provide a new swapping algorithm too, which is simpler to
 implement, only uses local information, is faster and far more attack
 resistant:

 http://www.ukp.tu-darmstadt.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Group_P2P/share/publications/Attack_Resistant_Network_Embeddings_for_Darknets.pdf

 Now if only we really had a 10,000 node darknet to run these algorithms
 on! Making it easy to build a darknet has to be a high priority.

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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet meetup/mini-conference?

[Michael Grube]

If my voice holds any importance, the next CCC woukld be best for me. North
America or Europe is preferred.


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:33 AM, vmonmoonsh...@gmail.com wrote:

 - I like the idea of the side event but doesn't need to be a huge event
   anyway.

 - What about next CTS? They seems to hold one every 6 month. The good
   thing about the CTS is that they get together in small groups and
   discuss the project of their choice, we can form the freenet group and
   have our event as a part of the (un)conference. The problem is that
   they keep it in countries that censorship is a serious issue and I
   don't think European countries beside Bela Russ qualify for that.

 Cheers,
 Vmon

 devl-requ...@freenetproject.org writes:
  TheSeeker suggested maybe a side event near (time/space) to an
  existing conference. vmon suggested CTS, but it's too early for me
  (April) and probably inaccessible for most people here. (Hong Kong,
  April).
 
  My personal preference timing-wise is any time between June 24th and
  October (though e.g. CCC is possible too; avoid uni term-time!).
 
  Thoughts?
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  --
 
  Message: 4
  Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 16:47:40 +0100
  From: Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
  To: supp...@freenetproject.org
  Cc: devl@freenetproject.org
  Subject: [freenet-dev] Broken build 1439! Do not upgrade if you have
darknet peers!
  Message-ID: 201304011647.46521.t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
 
  Please do not upgrade to 1439 if you have darknet peers, it will break
  and be unable to start up. 1440 is inserting, please use
  that. Sorry...
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  --
 
  Message: 5
  Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 23:12:27 +0200
  From: Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
  To: devl@freenetproject.org
  Subject: [freenet-dev] NullPointerError after OOM or disk-full
  Message-ID: 1600837.oVK3CafvYu@fluss
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
 
  Hi,
 
  I got the following null-pointer error on startup after having some
  problems with my disk and memory:
 
  ?
  jvm 1 | In particular: YOU ARE WIDE OPEN TO YOUR IMMEDIATE PEERS! They
  can eavesdrop on your requests with relatively little difficulty at
  present (correlation attacks etc).
  jvm 1| Creating PeerManager
  jvm 1 | WrapperManager Error: Error in WrapperListener.start callback.
  java.lang.NullPointerException
  jvm 1| WrapperManager Error: java.lang.NullPointerException
  jvm 1| WrapperManager Error:at
 freenet.node.Node.enableNewLoadManagement(Node.java:5383)
  jvm 1| WrapperManager Error:at
 freenet.node.PeerNode.noLoadStats(PeerNode.java:3593)
  jvm 1 | WrapperManager Error: at
  freenet.node.PeerNode.setPeerNodeStatus(PeerNode.java:3563)
  jvm 1 | WrapperManager Error: at
  freenet.node.PeerNode.setPeerNodeStatus(PeerNode.java:3555)
  jvm 1| WrapperManager Error:at
 freenet.node.PeerManager.addPeer(PeerManager.java:332)
  jvm 1| WrapperManager Error:at
 freenet.node.PeerManager.readPeers(PeerManager.java:271)
  jvm 1 | WrapperManager Error: at
  freenet.node.PeerManager.tryReadPeers(PeerManager.java:203)
  jvm 1| WrapperManager Error:at
 freenet.node.Node.init(Node.java:1714)
  jvm 1| WrapperManager Error:at
 freenet.node.NodeStarter.start(NodeStarter.java:189)
  jvm 1 | WrapperManager Error: at
 
 org.tanukisoftware.wrapper.WrapperManager$11.run(WrapperManager.java:2979)
  jvm 1| Shutting down...
  jvm 1| Stopping database jobs...
  jvm 1| Rolling back unfinished transactions...
  jvm 1| Closing database...
  jvm 1| [db4o 7.4.63.11890   2013-04-01 22:59:38]
  jvm 1|  '/home/arne/freenet/node.db4o.crypt' close request
  jvm 1| [db4o 7.4.63.11890   2013-04-01 22:59:38]
  jvm 1|  '/home/arne/freenet/node.db4o.crypt' closed
  jvm 1| Completed writing logs to disk.
  wrapper  | -- Wrapper Stopped
 
 
 
  Additional notes:
 
  - Two times the disk was full.
  - The node died at least once, I assume because of an out of memory error
  - I killed persistent-temp-[nodeid]/freenet-temp-* to recover diskspace.
 
  Best wishes,
  Arne
  --
  Ich hab' nichts zu verbergen ? hab ich gedacht:
 
  - http://draketo.de/licht/lieder/ich-hab-nichts-zu-verbergen
 
  -- next part --
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Re: [freenet-dev] Native android client?

[Michael Grube]

You may want to consider that the traffic from freenet may significantly
wear down any mobile device's battery. That being said, a lightweight
android client might be amazing. You may also want to consider working to
put Tahrir(http://github.com/sanity/tahrir) on Android, which may be easier
on a mobile device's battery.

Just some thoughts. Go for it!!


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Rodger Fox rodger...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello all.
 I just just joined here. In fact I haven't even peeked at the source code
 yet, so excuse me if I'm being rude or ignorant in anything I suggest here,
 but has anyone here considered porting freenet to mobile devices.

 If it's of interest to others, I'd like to initiate the task, particularly
 for android.
 I'll stay brief until I get some feedback. Any thoughts on this?

 -Rodger

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Re: [freenet-dev] The current store size stats attack and Pitch Black

[Michael Grube]

I haven't had too much time to think about this. How would centralized
reporting work? Seems like a malicious person could have a bunch of nodes
join and simply report bad stats.

Just my feedback. I'll try to have some kind of decent response in the next
24 hours.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
 wrote:

 On Wednesday 27 Feb 2013 19:40:49 Matthew Toseland wrote:
  On Wednesday 27 Feb 2013 18:54:34 Matthew Toseland wrote:
   operhiem1's graphs of probed total datastore size have been attacked
 recently by nodes returning bogus store sizes (in the multi-petabyte
 range). This caused a sudden jump in store sizes on the total store size
 graph. He excluded outliers, and the spike went away, but now it's come
 back.
  
   The simplest explanation is that the person whose nodes are returning
 the bogus stats has hacked their node to return bogus datastore stats even
 when it is relaying a probe request. Given we use fairly high HTLs (30?)
 for probes, this can affect enough traffic to have a big impact on stats.
  
   Total store size stats don't matter that much, but we need to use
 probe stats for a couple of things that do:
   1. Pitch Black prevention will require probing for the typical
 distance between a node and its peers. Granted on darknet it's harder for
 an attacker to have a significant number of edges / nodes distributed
 across the keyspace.
   2. I would like to be able to test empirically whether a given change
 works. Overall performance fluctuates too wildly based on too many factors,
 so probing random nodes for a single statistic (e.g. the proportion of
 requests rejected) seems the best way to sanity check a network-level
 change. If the stats can be perverted this easily then we can't rely on
 them, so empiricism doesn't work.
  
   So how can we deal with this problem?
  
   We can safely get stats from a randomly chosen target location, by
 routing several parts of a probe request randomly and then towards that
 location. The main problems with this are:
   - It gives too much control. Probes are supposed to be random.
   - A random location may not be a random node, e.g. for Pitch Black
 countermeasures when we are being attacked.
  
   For empiricism I guess we probably want to just have a relatively
 small number of trusted nodes which insert their stats regularly - canary
 nodes?
  
  Preliminary conclusions, talking to digger3:
 
  There are 3 use cases.
 
  1) Empirical confirmation when we do a build that changes something.
 Measure something to see if it worked. *NOT* overall performance, low level
 stuff that should show a big change.
  = We can use canary nodes for this, run by people we trust. Some will
 need to run artificial configs, and they're probably not representative of
 the network as a whole.
  = TODO: We should try to organise this explicitly, preferably before
 trying the planned AIMD changes...
  2) Pitch Black location distance detection.
  = Probably OK, because it's hard to get a lot of nodes in random places
 on the keyspace on darknet.
  3) General stats: Datastore, bandwidth, link length distributions, etc.
 This stuff can and should affect development.
  = This is much harder. *Maybe* fetch from a random location, but even
 there it's problematic?
  = We can however improve this significantly by discarding a larger
 number of outliers.
  Given that probes have HTL 30, and assuming opennet so nodes are
 randomly distributed:
  10 nodes could corrupt 5% of probes
  21 nodes could corrupt 10% of probes
  44 nodes could corrupt 20% of probes.
 
  Also note that it depends on what the stat is - the probe request stats
 are a percentage from 0 to 100, so much less vulnerable than datastore
 size, which can be *big*.
 
 One proposal: use low HTL probes from each node: (possibly combined with
 central reporting, possibly not)

 https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=5643

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Re: [freenet-dev] Pitch Black Attack - Analysis, Code, Etc.

[Michael Grube]

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
 wrote:

 On Monday 28 Jan 2013 21:39:54 Michael Grube wrote:
  On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Matthew Toseland 
 t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
   wrote:
 
   On Monday 28 Jan 2013 18:09:07 Michael Grube wrote:
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Matthew Toseland 
t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
   
 On Sunday 27 Jan 2013 05:02:17 Michael Grube wrote:
  Hi everyone,
 
  Around this time last year I started on work to simulate the
 pitch
   black
  attack working against Oskar Sandberg's swapping algorithm that
 is
  implemented for use with darknet. The work is essentially
 incomplete,
 but I
  did enough to get an idea of how well Oskar's proposed solution
 to
   the
  Black Attack works. Hopefully the information that follows can
   provide
 some
  insight for anybody working on this problem.

 It looks like we have a good chance of using Oskar's original plan.
   Maybe
 even getting it published, with some help (carl might help even if
 you
 don't have time?).
 
  The code is messy, so I'm going to do a walkthrough of how
 exactly I
   ran
  the simulation.
 
  To start off, my code is available at
 http://github.com/mgrube/pbsim
   .
 
  Let's start. The first thing I did was create the small world
 network
 that
  is assumed in the darknet. The graph size can obviously be of any
   size,
 but
  in our experiment we'll make the network size 1000 nodes. This is
   pretty
  simple in python and can be accomplished with one line in the
   networkx
  library:

 You did check that there isn't a scalability issue? :)
   
I tested with 10,000 nodes as well and the results did not vary by
 much.
The most important difference I noticed was that 2 attackers became a
   less
significant number. Not that this really means anything to a would-be
attacker.
   
If you are convinced that scalability is a problem, I can add
 support for
threads to what I have and make it easy to simulate 100,000 or 1M or
whatever number we want to try.
  
   I don't know. In my experience threads complicate matters quite a bit.
  
 
  Certainly they can. In this case it would help, however.
 
 

 I wonder if it would be worth writing up the natural pitch black
 via
 churn evolution we saw in ~ 2008. Basically, when you have churn,
   newbies
 end up with the worst locations i.e. those furthest away from the
   main
 clusters. So even without an attack, the network locations become
 more
   and
 more clustered. We fixed it by periodic randomisation, which
 seemed to
   have
 relatively little cost - the nodes quickly got their old locations
   back,
 more or less.

 Another thing we want to look into is what the cost is of swapping
 (especially on a growing network, or even two networks merging) in
   terms of
 losing datastores due to locations changing. That might need more
   detailed
 simulations...
   
I will see what I can do about looking into these sometime later this
   week.
  
   Good.
   
  We can see the aftermath by looking at a histogram of node
   locations. The
  randomize function uses a random function to assign each node a
   location,
  so first let's look at a histogram of locations before the
 attack:
 

  
 http://127.0.0.1:/CHK@ODZ1s5SDYrVvyNo0ONh4O9rtI~pcVmTSShh47UFPY5U,SKJfkX2eswHMrqidDWTUoZKGMaZ9yt0l6uLUZMmxOqk,AAMC--8/preattacklocations.PNG

 Suprisingly wide range of concentrations.
 
  The biasing locations for these attack nodes were:
  .6935
  .1935
  .9435
  .4435
  .4665
  .9665
  .7165
  .2165
 
  Our histogram of node locations now shows a disproportionate
 number
   of
  nodes with those locations:
 
 

  
 http://127.0.0.1:/CHK@aI0BN0NXEjU--8dFtCYZwPwUWcM0rpamIf3lnv7FfHc,SCr2NPJYZVpFJKSf-qDYerQTQyDfdoV3-DeX-W1e91I,AAMC--8/postattack.PNG

 Scary!
   
Quite.
   
  So, the attack with only two nodes is obviously very effective.
 It's
  important to note that the attack simulation method assumed that
   nodes
 were
  attacking before the swapping algorithm had a chance to organize
 the
  network. This is something of a worst case scenario.

 So this is attacking after we've done some swapping but not enough
 to
 reach the point of diminishing returns?
 
  Now, let's measure the effectiveness of Oskar Sandberg's proposed
 solution,
  which is described on the bug tracker:
  https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3919
 
  We can test sandberg's solution by using:
 
  sandbergsolution(sandberg_solution_network, attackers, .037)
 
  The last parameter, .037 is the distance threshold for
   re-randomizing a
  node's location

Re: [freenet-dev] Pitch Black Attack - Analysis, Code, Etc.

[Michael Grube]

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
 wrote:

 On Monday 28 Jan 2013 21:39:54 Michael Grube wrote:
  On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Matthew Toseland 
 t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
   wrote:
 
   On Monday 28 Jan 2013 18:09:07 Michael Grube wrote:
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Matthew Toseland 
t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
   
 On Sunday 27 Jan 2013 05:02:17 Michael Grube wrote:
  Hi everyone,
 
  Around this time last year I started on work to simulate the
 pitch
   black
  attack working against Oskar Sandberg's swapping algorithm that
 is
  implemented for use with darknet. The work is essentially
 incomplete,
 but I
  did enough to get an idea of how well Oskar's proposed solution
 to
   the
  Black Attack works. Hopefully the information that follows can
   provide
 some
  insight for anybody working on this problem.

 It looks like we have a good chance of using Oskar's original plan.
   Maybe
 even getting it published, with some help (carl might help even if
 you
 don't have time?).
 
  The code is messy, so I'm going to do a walkthrough of how
 exactly I
   ran
  the simulation.
 
  To start off, my code is available at
 http://github.com/mgrube/pbsim
   .
 
  Let's start. The first thing I did was create the small world
 network
 that
  is assumed in the darknet. The graph size can obviously be of any
   size,
 but
  in our experiment we'll make the network size 1000 nodes. This is
   pretty
  simple in python and can be accomplished with one line in the
   networkx
  library:

 You did check that there isn't a scalability issue? :)
   
I tested with 10,000 nodes as well and the results did not vary by
 much.
The most important difference I noticed was that 2 attackers became a
   less
significant number. Not that this really means anything to a would-be
attacker.
   
If you are convinced that scalability is a problem, I can add
 support for
threads to what I have and make it easy to simulate 100,000 or 1M or
whatever number we want to try.
  
   I don't know. In my experience threads complicate matters quite a bit.
  
 
  Certainly they can. In this case it would help, however.
 
 

 I wonder if it would be worth writing up the natural pitch black
 via
 churn evolution we saw in ~ 2008. Basically, when you have churn,
   newbies
 end up with the worst locations i.e. those furthest away from the
   main
 clusters. So even without an attack, the network locations become
 more
   and
 more clustered. We fixed it by periodic randomisation, which
 seemed to
   have
 relatively little cost - the nodes quickly got their old locations
   back,
 more or less.

 Another thing we want to look into is what the cost is of swapping
 (especially on a growing network, or even two networks merging) in
   terms of
 losing datastores due to locations changing. That might need more
   detailed
 simulations...
   
I will see what I can do about looking into these sometime later this
   week.
  
   Good.
   
  We can see the aftermath by looking at a histogram of node
   locations. The
  randomize function uses a random function to assign each node a
   location,
  so first let's look at a histogram of locations before the
 attack:
 

  
 http://127.0.0.1:/CHK@ODZ1s5SDYrVvyNo0ONh4O9rtI~pcVmTSShh47UFPY5U,SKJfkX2eswHMrqidDWTUoZKGMaZ9yt0l6uLUZMmxOqk,AAMC--8/preattacklocations.PNG

 Suprisingly wide range of concentrations.
 
  The biasing locations for these attack nodes were:
  .6935
  .1935
  .9435
  .4435
  .4665
  .9665
  .7165
  .2165
 
  Our histogram of node locations now shows a disproportionate
 number
   of
  nodes with those locations:
 
 

  
 http://127.0.0.1:/CHK@aI0BN0NXEjU--8dFtCYZwPwUWcM0rpamIf3lnv7FfHc,SCr2NPJYZVpFJKSf-qDYerQTQyDfdoV3-DeX-W1e91I,AAMC--8/postattack.PNG

 Scary!
   
Quite.
   
  So, the attack with only two nodes is obviously very effective.
 It's
  important to note that the attack simulation method assumed that
   nodes
 were
  attacking before the swapping algorithm had a chance to organize
 the
  network. This is something of a worst case scenario.

 So this is attacking after we've done some swapping but not enough
 to
 reach the point of diminishing returns?
 
  Now, let's measure the effectiveness of Oskar Sandberg's proposed
 solution,
  which is described on the bug tracker:
  https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3919
 
  We can test sandberg's solution by using:
 
  sandbergsolution(sandberg_solution_network, attackers, .037)
 
  The last parameter, .037 is the distance threshold for
   re-randomizing a
  node's location

Re: [freenet-dev] Maven revisited

[Michael Grube]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 I was thinking about the fact that we still build Freenet using the tools
 that were available to us a decade ago, while the Java world has moved on
 to more sophisticated dependency management tools like Maven.

 I recall that the reason for not using Maven is that it doesn't operate
 over a secure connection, and it leaves us open to the compromise of any of
 Freenet's dependencies Maven repositories.

 This is despite the fact that no such compromise as ever occurred on any
 project that I'm aware of, and since we don't do code audits of Freenet's
 current dependencies, our current approach doesn't immunize us against it
 anyway.

 However, one approach that might alleviate this concern is that we run our
 own Maven repository which will host any dependencies we need, and then
 configure Maven not to pull from the central Maven repos.




 There is the other issue that Maven can be a PITA to use, however there
 are similar alternatives: http://www.streamhead.com/maven-alternatives/



 Thoughts?



Maven's really not that bad. If people are absolutely terrified about
depedencies being compromised, maybe make a quick script to do a checksum
on the dependencies once they're donwloaded.




 Ian.

 --
 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org

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[freenet-dev] Pitch Black Attack - Analysis, Code, Etc.

[Michael Grube]

Old response that was never forwarded.

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.dewrote:

 Hi Snark,

 Thank you for posting! Your analysis looks pretty good.

 Am Sonntag, 27. Januar 2013, 00:02:17 schrieb Michael Grube:

  Not bad! There is obviously still some influence but the location
  distribution has evened out noticeably.
 
  There is one down side to this solution, however, and that is that it
  appears to affect search performance. By how much, I am not sure, but our
  link length distribution is now looking less ideal:
 
 
 http://127.0.0.1:/CHK@TdODwHOdC9peiHYGtTxDa9yy9v0lXSHKWW4G7wM5-~A,OIy08YxNZdg4M3vpgm7wETOhUvU3RYFzrkJQ7No9poE,AAMC--8/deterioratinglinkdist.PNG

 What happens if you now apply normal swapping to this distribution? Does
 it get better or do we see a general problem of swapping?


Do you mean without attackers? Changing back to the original swapping
method with attackers makes the location distribution fall apart again.
Without attackers from this point on, the link length distribution moves
back to ideal distribution again.  I just ran this again to be sure, but
the resulting graph is nothing new, so I didn't insert it.



 (in some tests while discussing probes, a swapping example I wrote worked
 well for some stuff, but broke down with certain configurations)

 The link length distribution could be a pretty big problem…

 Compare it with the real distribution:


 http://127.0.0.1:/USK@pxtehd-TmfJwyNUAW2Clk4pwv7Nshyg21NNfXcqzFv4,LTjcTWqvsq3ju6pMGe9Cqb3scvQgECG81hRdgj5WO4s,AQACAAE/statistics/148/plot_link_length.png


My first thought is that I'd like to see this graph with link length from 0
to 1. Also, it's important to note that this graph is percent of nodes with
that link length or smaller, whereas the graphs I inserted are counts of
the number of links with the distance marked on the x axis. This difference
might have been obvious to some people, but I just want to be sure
everybody sees that.

I can't promise anything immediate, but I was already implementing the
search algorithm in my simulation. I can try to get some actual numbers by
this time next week.



 Best wishes,
 Arne

 PS: I also like it that you used freenet itself for hosting!


Of course =)


 --
 Unpolitisch sein
 heißt politisch sein,
 ohne es zu merken.
 - Arne (http://draketo.de)



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Re: [freenet-dev] Maven revisited

[Michael Grube]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Matthew Toseland 
 t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:

 On Thursday 31 Jan 2013 17:50:32 Michael Grube wrote:
  On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org
 wrote:
 
   I was thinking about the fact that we still build Freenet using the
 tools
   that were available to us a decade ago, while the Java world has
 moved on
   to more sophisticated dependency management tools like Maven.
  
   I recall that the reason for not using Maven is that it doesn't
 operate
   over a secure connection, and it leaves us open to the compromise of
 any of
   Freenet's dependencies Maven repositories.
  
   This is despite the fact that no such compromise as ever occurred on
 any
   project that I'm aware of, and since we don't do code audits of
 Freenet's
   current dependencies, our current approach doesn't immunize us
 against it
   anyway.

 Have you actually tried to find out?
  
   However, one approach that might alleviate this concern is that we
 run our
   own Maven repository which will host any dependencies we need, and
 then
   configure Maven not to pull from the central Maven repos.
  
   There is the other issue that Maven can be a PITA to use, however
 there
   are similar alternatives:
 http://www.streamhead.com/maven-alternatives/
  
   Thoughts?
  
  Maven's really not that bad. If people are absolutely terrified about
  depedencies being compromised, maybe make a quick script to do a
 checksum
  on the dependencies once they're donwloaded.

 Maven does not do any sort of signature checking. Maven's own repository
 doesn't even do SSL IIRC.


 http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-repository-ssl.html



 It is therefore not suitable for building binaries that will be
 distributed. In my view this is true of any binaries that will be
 distributed to anyone, but it certainly isn't true of building binaries for
 an auto-updater capable of deploying 5,000 nodes within an hour - a
 significant target for conventional malware even if it wasn't for the fact
 that some of these people really do need their privacy.

 If we run our own repository:
 - We need to maintain it. This is more unnecessary work.
 - We need to host it. This is more CPU usage on the small, cheap, rather
 limited VM that runs the website etc.

 But most importantly, we need it to be reasonably easy to *develop
 Freenet anonymously*. This is not a theoretical aspiration. There are
 anonymous developers today, and some of them are extremely productive at
 times.


 Some kind of Infocalypse bridge?



 Exactly what problem are you trying to solve here?



 It's really not that hard to build Freenet. Granted it should be easier;
 the immediate problem is you need not only freenet-ext.jar (which the build
 scripts will fetch for you if you set one line in a config file; the first
 time you run ant it will tell you this), but also the bouncycastle jar,
 which isn't auto-fetched.

 If you really want security advice ask nextgens. But it looks to me like
 Maven is hopeless for our purposes. For a non-security-related project, for
 a single developer who doesn't distribute the resulting binaries, fine. For
 a corporate setup where both the developers and the server are inside the
 firewall, fine. But for us, it does not make sense.

 Regarding not auditing dependencies, we do try to obtain clean copies
 of our dependencies. Also most of them aren't security critical, and so
 aren't updated regularly. Ordinarily this would be a bad thing - but it
 does reduce the number of opportunities for malware to slip in. The biggest
 dependency is db4o, and IMHO we should get rid of it soon, it's been
 nothing but a nightmare. Whenever we have looked into updating it we have
 found new and wonderful bugs, and so haven't bothered...

 In any case, the fact that we haven't audited every line of some of our
 dependencies is not an excuse for failing to perform basic due dilligence
 on our build process. Freenet is security sensitive, it has an
 auto-updater, it's not safe for us to just grab jars from wherever and hope
 for the best, which seems to be what most of the Java community do. And
 it's what Maven does too, without any form of authentication.

 The best person to ask for security advice on this sort of issue is
 Nextgens anyway. He's been around lately.



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[freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1

[Michael Grube]

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Steve Dougherty wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 04/28/2012 06:56 PM, Zlatin Balevsky wrote:
> > In Gnutella we observed that long-lived nodes tend to be better
> > connected and that they also cluster with other high-uptime nodes.
> > If the same is true for Freenet it's a good idea to keep an eye for
> > side effects as you tweak the behavior.
>
> Good to know - I'll look for that. Are there any particular effects
> you had in mind? The Metropolis-Hastings correction in the new probes
> should produce a fairly uniform distribution of endpoints despite
> clustering and well-connected nodes, but explicitly simulating the
> effects of high uptime could be helpful.
>
> It occurs to me that the probe requests I hope to depreciate allow
> reconstructing the actual network topology - perhaps we could run
> simulations on top of it? The new probe requests are currently planned
> to not report degrees or link length distributions, [1] which as far
> as I can tell would mean no way to reconstruct the network as measured
> in simulation. Does it seem reasonable to omit the ability to gather
> such information?
>
>
> On 04/28/2012 03:51 PM, Michael Grube wrote:
> > Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix?
>
> The simulation generates the graph in a way which effectively sort of
> assumes darknet: it assigns locations, then iterates over the network
> and connects nodes based on link length. [2] [3] I'm working under the
> assumption that when using the same degree distribution as the network
> is measured to have this is an accurate enough approximation. I will
> include these and similar plots in this week's progress report.
>

Ah, ok. You're making a Kleinberg Small World graph. Nice.


>
> My understanding is that a more thorough simulation of darknet would
> randomly assign locations and reassign them with the location-swapping
> algorithm used in Fred.


Right. Funnily enough, the swapping algorithm is most concisely described
in the Pitch Black paper. I'd suggest that as a reference for quick
implementation.


> I think simulating opennet would be more work
> both to implement and to run, as it would mean implementing
> path-folding and randomly assigning locations and connections.
>

No doubt about that. Just curious. I did some work involving some very
simple probes, but it was more of a theoretical simulation. We'll see how
close theory matches reality I guess ;)

Thanks for answering.


>
> [1] https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3568
> [2]
>
> https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L139
> [3]
>
> https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L52
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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Re: [freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1

[Michael Grube]

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Steve Dougherty st...@asksteved.comwrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 04/28/2012 06:56 PM, Zlatin Balevsky wrote:
  In Gnutella we observed that long-lived nodes tend to be better
  connected and that they also cluster with other high-uptime nodes.
  If the same is true for Freenet it's a good idea to keep an eye for
  side effects as you tweak the behavior.

 Good to know - I'll look for that. Are there any particular effects
 you had in mind? The Metropolis-Hastings correction in the new probes
 should produce a fairly uniform distribution of endpoints despite
 clustering and well-connected nodes, but explicitly simulating the
 effects of high uptime could be helpful.

 It occurs to me that the probe requests I hope to depreciate allow
 reconstructing the actual network topology - perhaps we could run
 simulations on top of it? The new probe requests are currently planned
 to not report degrees or link length distributions, [1] which as far
 as I can tell would mean no way to reconstruct the network as measured
 in simulation. Does it seem reasonable to omit the ability to gather
 such information?


 On 04/28/2012 03:51 PM, Michael Grube wrote:
  Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix?

 The simulation generates the graph in a way which effectively sort of
 assumes darknet: it assigns locations, then iterates over the network
 and connects nodes based on link length. [2] [3] I'm working under the
 assumption that when using the same degree distribution as the network
 is measured to have this is an accurate enough approximation. I will
 include these and similar plots in this week's progress report.


Ah, ok. You're making a Kleinberg Small World graph. Nice.



 My understanding is that a more thorough simulation of darknet would
 randomly assign locations and reassign them with the location-swapping
 algorithm used in Fred.


Right. Funnily enough, the swapping algorithm is most concisely described
in the Pitch Black paper. I'd suggest that as a reference for quick
implementation.


 I think simulating opennet would be more work
 both to implement and to run, as it would mean implementing
 path-folding and randomly assigning locations and connections.


No doubt about that. Just curious. I did some work involving some very
simple probes, but it was more of a theoretical simulation. We'll see how
close theory matches reality I guess ;)

Thanks for answering.



 [1] https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3568
 [2]

 https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L139
 [3]

 https://github.com/Thynix/routing-simulator/blob/73dfd6c94156cef35815ac7de2fcfa934385ccae/Graph.java#L52
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 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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[freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1

[Michael Grube]

Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix?

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Steve Dougherty wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Here's an update on my progress on the statistics project for the
> first week:
>
> The current probes are biased towards better-connected nodes: at each
> hop they choose a random peer to pass the request to - this is a random
> walk. However, because better-connected nodes by definition have more
> connections, the requests will be passed to them more often and they
> will be over-represented in results. To address this, the new probes I
> will implement will use Metropolis-Hastings correction: unlike the
> uniform random walk which always uses the random peer it picks, it is
> less likely to pick a well-connected node, and more likely to pick a
> poorly-connected node. As there are more chances to pick a
> well-connected node than a poorly-connected one, this balances out to
> a uniform probability to pick any given node.
>
> I'm starting from evanbd's network simulator,[1] which is able to
> generate networks based off theoretical models and perform some routing
> simulations. It can now also reproduce a given degree (number of peers)
> distribution which allows simulating the network as it is measured to be
> in addition to purely theoretical models.
>
> Currently I'm working on plotting the distribution of this routing
> strategy with different limits on hops before returning information -
> Hops To Live - HTL. This is to get a good number to start with in the
> implementation of these probes. I will also refactor the simulator and
> make it easier to configure: currently values are hard-coded and
> changing the simulation parameters means recompiling.



>
> My goal is to have this area of simulation done and have begun planning
> if not implementing the new probe requests by the end of next week.
>
> Thanks,
> operhiem1
>
> [1]
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> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Statistics Project Update #1

[Michael Grube]

Are you assuming opennet, darknet, a mix?

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Steve Dougherty st...@asksteved.comwrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Here's an update on my progress on the statistics project for the
 first week:

 The current probes are biased towards better-connected nodes: at each
 hop they choose a random peer to pass the request to - this is a random
 walk. However, because better-connected nodes by definition have more
 connections, the requests will be passed to them more often and they
 will be over-represented in results. To address this, the new probes I
 will implement will use Metropolis-Hastings correction: unlike the
 uniform random walk which always uses the random peer it picks, it is
 less likely to pick a well-connected node, and more likely to pick a
 poorly-connected node. As there are more chances to pick a
 well-connected node than a poorly-connected one, this balances out to
 a uniform probability to pick any given node.

 I'm starting from evanbd's network simulator,[1] which is able to
 generate networks based off theoretical models and perform some routing
 simulations. It can now also reproduce a given degree (number of peers)
 distribution which allows simulating the network as it is measured to be
 in addition to purely theoretical models.

 Currently I'm working on plotting the distribution of this routing
 strategy with different limits on hops before returning information -
 Hops To Live - HTL. This is to get a good number to start with in the
 implementation of these probes. I will also refactor the simulator and
 make it easier to configure: currently values are hard-coded and
 changing the simulation parameters means recompiling.




 My goal is to have this area of simulation done and have begun planning
 if not implementing the new probe requests by the end of next week.

 Thanks,
 operhiem1

 [1]
 USK@gjw6StjZOZ4OAG-pqOxIp5Nk11udQZOrozD4jld42Ac
 ,BYyqgAtc9p0JGbJ~18XU6mtO9ChnBZdf~ttCn48FV7s,AQACAAE/flog/29/200911.xhtml
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 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

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 =cnM8
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

[freenet-dev] GSoC 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Mohammad Hoda wrote:

> Hi Michael
> Thanks for the reply.
> I would indeed be going for GSOC. Could you please tell me a little
> bit more about the coding part. BTW what is Tahrir
>

Most of the development for Freenet is done in Java.

Here are instructions for getting the source code for Freenet:
http://freenetproject.org/developer.html

Tahrir is a social media/filesharing application that uses small-world
routing in the same way that Freenet does.
Described here: https://github.com/sanity/tahrir/wiki



> Thanks
>
> On 17/02/2012, Michael Grube  wrote:
> > Hi Mohammed,
> >
> > The first thing you can do is educate yourself about exactly how Freenet
> > works in detail if you haven't
> > done so already.
> >
> > Generally speaking, you can help Freenet by:
> > 1. Adding interesting content
> > 2. Running a node, spreading awareness, getting people to use it
> > 3. Making or contributing to useful Freenet applications(Freetalk, WoT,
> etc)
> > 4. Fixing bugs (http://bugs.freenetproject.org)
> >
> > However, if you're going for GSoC anyway, you may want to make some code
> > contributions to Tahrir.
> > You could end up making a big impact and who knows, it might impress
> > certain people!
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Mohammad Hoda  >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >> Ild like to start helping freenet, GSoC or no GSoC. Can some one tell
> >> me where to start
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> On 17/02/2012, Zlatin Balevsky  wrote:
> >> > +1 you might just have a winner
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ian Clarke 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I'm not sure whether people would object to this, but I would quite
> >> >> like
> >> >> to mentor a student to work on Tahrir under the umbrella of the
> Freenet
> >> >> project.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thoughts?  Opinions?  Insults?
> >> >>
> >> >> Ian.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Florent Daigniere <
> >> >> nextgens at freenetproject.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hi!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Should Freenet take part to Google Summer of Code 2012?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Is anyone motivated to mentor candidates?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'd like to mentor but probably won't do it if I'm the only one.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Florent
> >> >>> ___
> >> >>> Devl mailing list
> >> >>> Devl at freenetproject.org
> >> >>> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ian Clarke
> >> >> Founder, The Freenet Project
> >> >> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
> >> >> Devl mailing list
> >> >> Devl at freenetproject.org
> >> >> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mohammad Jamilish Shiyamul Hoda
> >> Computer Science Engineer
> >> Mobile:+91 829 624 0102
> >> ___
> >> Devl mailing list
> >> Devl at freenetproject.org
> >> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Mohammad Jamilish Shiyamul Hoda
> Computer Science Engineer
> Mobile:+91 829 624 0102
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] GSoC 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Mohammad Hoda shiyamh...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Michael
 Thanks for the reply.
 I would indeed be going for GSOC. Could you please tell me a little
 bit more about the coding part. BTW what is Tahrir


Most of the development for Freenet is done in Java.

Here are instructions for getting the source code for Freenet:
http://freenetproject.org/developer.html

Tahrir is a social media/filesharing application that uses small-world
routing in the same way that Freenet does.
Described here: https://github.com/sanity/tahrir/wiki



 Thanks

 On 17/02/2012, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi Mohammed,
 
  The first thing you can do is educate yourself about exactly how Freenet
  works in detail if you haven't
  done so already.
 
  Generally speaking, you can help Freenet by:
  1. Adding interesting content
  2. Running a node, spreading awareness, getting people to use it
  3. Making or contributing to useful Freenet applications(Freetalk, WoT,
 etc)
  4. Fixing bugs (http://bugs.freenetproject.org)
 
  However, if you're going for GSoC anyway, you may want to make some code
  contributions to Tahrir.
  You could end up making a big impact and who knows, it might impress
  certain people!
 
 
  On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Mohammad Hoda shiyamh...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Hi
  Ild like to start helping freenet, GSoC or no GSoC. Can some one tell
  me where to start
  Thanks
 
  On 17/02/2012, Zlatin Balevsky zlat...@gmail.com wrote:
   +1 you might just have a winner
  
   On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org
  wrote:
  
   I'm not sure whether people would object to this, but I would quite
   like
   to mentor a student to work on Tahrir under the umbrella of the
 Freenet
   project.
  
   Thoughts?  Opinions?  Insults?
  
   Ian.
  
  
   On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Florent Daigniere 
   nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
  
   Hi!
  
   Should Freenet take part to Google Summer of Code 2012?
  
   Is anyone motivated to mentor candidates?
  
   I'd like to mentor but probably won't do it if I'm the only one.
  
   Florent
   ___
   Devl mailing list
   Devl@freenetproject.org
   http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
  
  
  
  
   --
   Ian Clarke
   Founder, The Freenet Project
   Email: i...@freenetproject.org
  
   ___
   Devl mailing list
   Devl@freenetproject.org
   http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
  
  
 
 
  --
  Mohammad Jamilish Shiyamul Hoda
  Computer Science Engineer
  Mobile:+91 829 624 0102
  ___
  Devl mailing list
  Devl@freenetproject.org
  http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
 
 


 --
 Mohammad Jamilish Shiyamul Hoda
 Computer Science Engineer
 Mobile:+91 829 624 0102
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

[freenet-dev] GSoC 2012

[Michael Grube]

Hi Mohammed,

The first thing you can do is educate yourself about exactly how Freenet
works in detail if you haven't
done so already.

Generally speaking, you can help Freenet by:
1. Adding interesting content
2. Running a node, spreading awareness, getting people to use it
3. Making or contributing to useful Freenet applications(Freetalk, WoT, etc)
4. Fixing bugs (http://bugs.freenetproject.org)

However, if you're going for GSoC anyway, you may want to make some code
contributions to Tahrir.
You could end up making a big impact and who knows, it might impress
certain people!


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Mohammad Hoda wrote:

> Hi
> Ild like to start helping freenet, GSoC or no GSoC. Can some one tell
> me where to start
> Thanks
>
> On 17/02/2012, Zlatin Balevsky  wrote:
> > +1 you might just have a winner
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ian Clarke 
> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not sure whether people would object to this, but I would quite like
> >> to mentor a student to work on Tahrir under the umbrella of the Freenet
> >> project.
> >>
> >> Thoughts?  Opinions?  Insults?
> >>
> >> Ian.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Florent Daigniere <
> >> nextgens at freenetproject.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi!
> >>>
> >>> Should Freenet take part to Google Summer of Code 2012?
> >>>
> >>> Is anyone motivated to mentor candidates?
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to mentor but probably won't do it if I'm the only one.
> >>>
> >>> Florent
> >>> ___
> >>> Devl mailing list
> >>> Devl at freenetproject.org
> >>> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ian Clarke
> >> Founder, The Freenet Project
> >> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Devl mailing list
> >> Devl at freenetproject.org
> >> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Mohammad Jamilish Shiyamul Hoda
> Computer Science Engineer
> Mobile:+91 829 624 0102
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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[freenet-dev] GSoC 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> I'm not sure whether people would object to this, but I would quite like
> to mentor a student to work on Tahrir under the umbrella of the Freenet
> project.
>
> Thoughts?  Opinions?  Insults?
>

More probably stands to be accomplished this way. Less code to wade
through, a simpler implementation, etc. I suppose the immediate impact
could be higher. *Basic Freenet-like functionality is obviously needed ASAP
in many places.*

It seems like Tahrir is different enough from the Freenet software package(
https://github.com/sanity/tahrir/wiki/Overview) that associating it with
the Freenet Project makes sense anyway.

IMHO, the biggest Freenet problems are theoretical problems as The Seeker,
Evanbd, toad and others have been saying. In the meantime, a lightweight,
specific implementation would be amazing. Just make sure they produce nice
documentation please...



> Ian.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Florent Daigniere <
> nextgens at freenetproject.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Should Freenet take part to Google Summer of Code 2012?
>>
>> Is anyone motivated to mentor candidates?
>>
>> I'd like to mentor but probably won't do it if I'm the only one.
>>
>> Florent
>> ___
>> Devl mailing list
>> Devl at freenetproject.org
>> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] GSoC 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 I'm not sure whether people would object to this, but I would quite like
 to mentor a student to work on Tahrir under the umbrella of the Freenet
 project.

 Thoughts?  Opinions?  Insults?


More probably stands to be accomplished this way. Less code to wade
through, a simpler implementation, etc. I suppose the immediate impact
could be higher. *Basic Freenet-like functionality is obviously needed ASAP
in many places.*

It seems like Tahrir is different enough from the Freenet software package(
https://github.com/sanity/tahrir/wiki/Overview) that associating it with
the Freenet Project makes sense anyway.

IMHO, the biggest Freenet problems are theoretical problems as The Seeker,
Evanbd, toad and others have been saying. In the meantime, a lightweight,
specific implementation would be amazing. Just make sure they produce nice
documentation please...



 Ian.


 On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Florent Daigniere 
 nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 Hi!

 Should Freenet take part to Google Summer of Code 2012?

 Is anyone motivated to mentor candidates?

 I'd like to mentor but probably won't do it if I'm the only one.

 Florent
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl




 --
 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] GSoC 2012

[Michael Grube]

Hi Mohammed,

The first thing you can do is educate yourself about exactly how Freenet
works in detail if you haven't
done so already.

Generally speaking, you can help Freenet by:
1. Adding interesting content
2. Running a node, spreading awareness, getting people to use it
3. Making or contributing to useful Freenet applications(Freetalk, WoT, etc)
4. Fixing bugs (http://bugs.freenetproject.org)

However, if you're going for GSoC anyway, you may want to make some code
contributions to Tahrir.
You could end up making a big impact and who knows, it might impress
certain people!


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Mohammad Hoda shiyamh...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi
 Ild like to start helping freenet, GSoC or no GSoC. Can some one tell
 me where to start
 Thanks

 On 17/02/2012, Zlatin Balevsky zlat...@gmail.com wrote:
  +1 you might just have a winner
 
  On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org
 wrote:
 
  I'm not sure whether people would object to this, but I would quite like
  to mentor a student to work on Tahrir under the umbrella of the Freenet
  project.
 
  Thoughts?  Opinions?  Insults?
 
  Ian.
 
 
  On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Florent Daigniere 
  nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
 
  Hi!
 
  Should Freenet take part to Google Summer of Code 2012?
 
  Is anyone motivated to mentor candidates?
 
  I'd like to mentor but probably won't do it if I'm the only one.
 
  Florent
  ___
  Devl mailing list
  Devl@freenetproject.org
  http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
 
 
 
 
  --
  Ian Clarke
  Founder, The Freenet Project
  Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 
  ___
  Devl mailing list
  Devl@freenetproject.org
  http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
 
 


 --
 Mohammad Jamilish Shiyamul Hoda
 Computer Science Engineer
 Mobile:+91 829 624 0102
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

[freenet-dev] Website traffic increased substantially

[Michael Grube]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Robert Hailey
wrote:

>
> On 2012/01/23 (Jan), at 8:21 AM, Martin 'The Bishop' Scheffler wrote:
>
> > well, i see the megaupload-bust as a second factor to that.
> > we should thank the FBI for pushing users in our direction :-)
>
> And then we should push development of freenet into freenet itself before
> the FBI comes in our direction. :-)
>

=/

Development alone will not save us.

With a sufficient set of arguments and PR, we should be able not only to
keep the FBI at bay, but even portray ourselves as people who are doing
good(because we are!). This is exactly how WikiLeaks protected themselves
before they got really big. They were very practiced at answering
*all*counterarguments to their activities. I have seen a good deal of
development and tech support discussion in #freenet, but I have not seen a
proportionate amount of legal and social defenses.

Maybe it would be possible to make friends with the EFF or ACLU? I'm not
sure how we'd get the help we may need.



>
> --
> Robert Hailey
>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website traffic increased substantially

[Michael Grube]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Robert Hailey
rob...@freenetproject.orgwrote:


 On 2012/01/23 (Jan), at 8:21 AM, Martin 'The Bishop' Scheffler wrote:

  well, i see the megaupload-bust as a second factor to that.
  we should thank the FBI for pushing users in our direction :-)

 And then we should push development of freenet into freenet itself before
 the FBI comes in our direction. :-)


=/

Development alone will not save us.

With a sufficient set of arguments and PR, we should be able not only to
keep the FBI at bay, but even portray ourselves as people who are doing
good(because we are!). This is exactly how WikiLeaks protected themselves
before they got really big. They were very practiced at answering
*all*counterarguments to their activities. I have seen a good deal of
development and tech support discussion in #freenet, but I have not seen a
proportionate amount of legal and social defenses.

Maybe it would be possible to make friends with the EFF or ACLU? I'm not
sure how we'd get the help we may need.




 --
 Robert Hailey

 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

[freenet-dev] Freenet Revival?

[Michael Grube]

Somewhat related, myself and some people at the local hackerspace are
getting involved in evaluating what Freenet has vs what we'd like to see,
then going out and implementing it.

Good things are about to happen!

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> Anyone familiar with this (if you don't speak French you'll need Google
> Translate):
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/freenetrevivaltaskforce/home
>
> Ian.
>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Revival?

[Michael Grube]

Somewhat related, myself and some people at the local hackerspace are
getting involved in evaluating what Freenet has vs what we'd like to see,
then going out and implementing it.

Good things are about to happen!

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 Anyone familiar with this (if you don't speak French you'll need Google
 Translate):

 https://sites.google.com/site/freenetrevivaltaskforce/home

 Ian.


 --
 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

[freenet-dev] Fwd: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> Will you submit?


Under the assumption that the paper is where it needs to be by the
deadline, yes.


>  These guys have rejected our papers in the past specifically because we
> haven't yet formally responded to the Pitch Black paper, so submitting a
> response to it would be a pretty good thing IMHO.
>
> Have you had any contact with Theodore Hong?  If you ask him very nicely
> he may be willing to provide feedback on your paper.  Of course I will too,
> but Theo has a lot more experience with academic papers than I do.
>

That's a nice lead. Thanks!


>
> Ian.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Michael Grube  gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info!
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Ian Clarke > freenetproject.org>wrote:
>>
>>> fyi
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>> From: David Hausheer 
>>> Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 5:27 PM
>>> Subject: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012
>>> To: David Hausheer 
>>>
>>>
>>> ##**##**
>>> #
>>>  IEEE P2P 2012
>>>  12th International Conference in Peer-to-Peer Computing
>>> CALL FOR PAPERS
>>> ##**##**
>>> #
>>>
>>> September 3-5 2012, Tarragona (Spain)
>>> http://www.ieee-p2p.org
>>>
>>> ##**##**
>>> ##
>>> # Papers Due: *** April, 13 2012 ***
>>> # Accepted papers will be published in the conference proceedings
>>> # by the IEEE Computer Society Press, which are indexed by EI.
>>> ##**##**
>>> ##
>>>
>>> The P2P'12 conference solicits papers on all aspects of large-scale
>>> distributed computing. Of particular interest is research that
>>> furthers the state-of-the-art in the design and analysis of
>>> large-scale distributed applications and systems, or that investigates
>>> real, deployed, applications or systems. We seek high-quality and
>>> original contributions on this general theme along a range of topics
>>> including:
>>>
>>>* Information retrieval and query support
>>>* P2P for cloud computing
>>>* Large-scale infrastructure technology
>>>* Semantic overlay networks and semantic query routing
>>>* P2P for grids, clouds, and datacenters
>>>* Deployed (commercial) applications and systems
>>>* Security, trust, and reputation
>>>* Cooperation, incentives, and fairness
>>>* P2P economics
>>>* Social networks
>>>* Overlay architectures and topologies
>>>* Overlay interaction with underlying infrastructure
>>>* Overlay monitoring and management
>>>* Self-organization
>>>* P2P applications and systems over mobile networks
>>>* Measurements and modeling of P2P and cloud systems
>>>* Performance, robustness, and scalability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ++**++
>>> Paper submission guidelines
>>> ++**++
>>>
>>> Papers can be submitted either as full papers or as short papers
>>> (following the IEEE single-spaced two-column format and a 10-point
>>> font size). Full papers should not exceed 10 pages and short papers
>>> should not exceed 5 pages. Short papers are expected to present work
>>> that is less mature but holds promise, articulate a high-level vision,
>>> describe challenging future directions or offer results that do not
>>> merit a full submission. Please note that short papers also need
>>> evaluation results or analysis to corroborate the claims of the paper
>>> and that a paper longer than 5 pages is treated as a full paper.
>>>
>>> Papers must be submitted electronically in PDF format through the EDAS
>>> paper-submission website linked from the conference website. IEEE
>>> templates for LaTeX and Microsoft Word, as well as related
>>> information, can be found at the IEEE Digital Toolbox webpage. The
>>> conference proceedings will be published by the IEEE Communications
>>> Society.
>>>
>>> All submissions will be evaluated using a double-blind review
>>> process. To ensure blind reviewing, 

[freenet-dev] Fwd: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Evan Daniel  wrote:

> Submitting a response to the Pitch Black paper seems a bit premature,
> given that in the real world we probably have network distribution
> problems even without an active adversary.
>

Could you be more specific? Are you talking about the clustering that
occurs on its own?

The paper I am writing simulates proposed solutions to the pitch black
attack and measures their effectiveness. Assuming I can get that done in
short order, I will begin looking for better approaches if they can be
improved upon.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Fwd: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Evan Daniel eva...@gmail.com wrote:

 Submitting a response to the Pitch Black paper seems a bit premature,
 given that in the real world we probably have network distribution
 problems even without an active adversary.


Could you be more specific? Are you talking about the clustering that
occurs on its own?

The paper I am writing simulates proposed solutions to the pitch black
attack and measures their effectiveness. Assuming I can get that done in
short order, I will begin looking for better approaches if they can be
improved upon.
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Fwd: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012

[Michael Grube]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:

 Will you submit?


Under the assumption that the paper is where it needs to be by the
deadline, yes.


  These guys have rejected our papers in the past specifically because we
 haven't yet formally responded to the Pitch Black paper, so submitting a
 response to it would be a pretty good thing IMHO.

 Have you had any contact with Theodore Hong?  If you ask him very nicely
 he may be willing to provide feedback on your paper.  Of course I will too,
 but Theo has a lot more experience with academic papers than I do.


That's a nice lead. Thanks!



 Ian.


 On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thanks for the info!

 On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.orgwrote:

 fyi

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: David Hausheer haush...@kom.tu-darmstadt.de
 Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 5:27 PM
 Subject: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012
 To: David Hausheer haush...@kom.tu-darmstadt.de


 ##**##**
 #
  IEEE P2P 2012
  12th International Conference in Peer-to-Peer Computing
 CALL FOR PAPERS
 ##**##**
 #

 September 3-5 2012, Tarragona (Spain)
 http://www.ieee-p2p.org

 ##**##**
 ##
 # Papers Due: *** April, 13 2012 ***
 # Accepted papers will be published in the conference proceedings
 # by the IEEE Computer Society Press, which are indexed by EI.
 ##**##**
 ##

 The P2P'12 conference solicits papers on all aspects of large-scale
 distributed computing. Of particular interest is research that
 furthers the state-of-the-art in the design and analysis of
 large-scale distributed applications and systems, or that investigates
 real, deployed, applications or systems. We seek high-quality and
 original contributions on this general theme along a range of topics
 including:

* Information retrieval and query support
* P2P for cloud computing
* Large-scale infrastructure technology
* Semantic overlay networks and semantic query routing
* P2P for grids, clouds, and datacenters
* Deployed (commercial) applications and systems
* Security, trust, and reputation
* Cooperation, incentives, and fairness
* P2P economics
* Social networks
* Overlay architectures and topologies
* Overlay interaction with underlying infrastructure
* Overlay monitoring and management
* Self-organization
* P2P applications and systems over mobile networks
* Measurements and modeling of P2P and cloud systems
* Performance, robustness, and scalability



 ++**++
 Paper submission guidelines
 ++**++

 Papers can be submitted either as full papers or as short papers
 (following the IEEE single-spaced two-column format and a 10-point
 font size). Full papers should not exceed 10 pages and short papers
 should not exceed 5 pages. Short papers are expected to present work
 that is less mature but holds promise, articulate a high-level vision,
 describe challenging future directions or offer results that do not
 merit a full submission. Please note that short papers also need
 evaluation results or analysis to corroborate the claims of the paper
 and that a paper longer than 5 pages is treated as a full paper.

 Papers must be submitted electronically in PDF format through the EDAS
 paper-submission website linked from the conference website. IEEE
 templates for LaTeX and Microsoft Word, as well as related
 information, can be found at the IEEE Digital Toolbox webpage. The
 conference proceedings will be published by the IEEE Communications
 Society.

 All submissions will be evaluated using a double-blind review
 process. To ensure blind reviewing, papers should be anonymized by
 removing author names and affiliations, as well as by masking any
 information about projects and bibliographic references, etc. that
 might reveal the authors' identities. Papers that are not properly
 anonymized will be rejected without review. Submitted papers should
 describe original and previously unpublished research and are not
 allowed to be simultaneously submitted or under review elsewhere.

 *Note:* P2P 2012 will experiment with two changes to the traditional
 reviewing process: two-phase reviewing and open reviews. These
 changes are an effort to provide additional feedback to authors of
 submitted papers and make the overall reviewing process more
 transparent. Specifically, all paper submissions will receive between
 3 and 5 reviews each; while all papers will receive at least 3
 reviews, papers of sufficient quality will undergo a second reviewing
 phase. In addition, the camera-ready version of each accepted

[freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Michael Grube]

IMHO, we should have data before we make decisions about contracting work
out. $4600 is really not a lot of money, so these tasks ought to be chosen
carefully and only when there is a definite gain to be made. It'd be quite
easy to make a long wishlist, but I think what we need are features as
advised by the experienced developers and the features that are most
frequently asked for by the public.

Not that brainstorming isn't productive, but I think our process might have
to be a little more structured.

Just my two cents.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Steve Dougherty wrote:

> Three more options:
>
> * Complete modularization of freenet-ext, allowing for wrapper upgrade.
> * Add a dismissable "release notes/news" pane to the front page upon
> upgrade.
> * Move bandwidth limit questions for the presets out of the wizard and
> replace with a notification/UserAlert to address them after the node
> has been set up, starting out assuming low rates.
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Steve Dougherty 
> wrote:
> > It might be reasonable to do darknet invitations: a file which allows
> > someone to connect with another node over darknet without exchanging
> > noderefs. (I can't think of how this would work, though.) This could
> > also, perhaps more conveniently, come baked into a generated
> > installer. In a similar vein, generated installers could include
> > additional plugins as well. When I helped someone set up Freenet, FRED
> > itself was fast, but all the plugins (WoT, Freetalk, FMS, Sone) took a
> > while to download. Sure, I can carry the .jars/.zips around with me,
> > but that's annoying and not streamlined.
> >
> > More extensively, which probably falls outside the scope and intent of
> > gun.io, it would be very nice to have code cleanup, review, and
> > documentation. One cleanup task that occurs to me is separating FProxy
> > and the rest of the UI from - I'm not sure what to call it: the core?
> > Such work could involve using FCP to interact with the backend and
> > using an established templating engine like Apache Velocity Engine.
> > Review could catch bugs and inform any possible cleanup and
> > documentation. Documentation would allow others to add Freenet support
> > to their existing products, or write their own Freenet daemons. It'd
> > also be good for FRED to have a protocol and load balancing
> > specification to work from.
> >
> > These projects are probably still be too large, and I'm not sure about
> > putting them on gun.io as I'd like to do them myself, but I'm
> > interested in realtime public chat using WoT for identities, and more
> > chat programs/plugins which are compatible with FLIP. I'm hoping to
> > work on that myself in the form of additions to my chat plugin. There
> > have also been many posts about a filesharing plugin, which I think is
> > a great idea, but I haven't noticed reports of progress on any of them
> > so far. Most recently, f?nfnull's "What Freenet really needs" in
> > eng.freenet on Freetalk mentions this.
> >
> > How about posting subtasks for cleaning up WoT/Freetalk?
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM, Michael Grube 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If I understand correctly, you pick a task that nobody has time to do.
> You then outsource that task. People then compete for your money with their
> solutions.
> >>>
> >>> It's like TopCoder but you get paid to win! Awesome.
> >>
> >>
> >> Right, and I think anyone can offer to pay people to perform specific
> tasks, not just the project.
> >>
> >> What are some good candidate problems for people to address?  We could
> invite both donors and programmers for each problem...
> >>
> >> Ian.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ian Clarke
> >> Personal blog: http://blog.locut.us/
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Devl mailing list
> >> Devl at freenetproject.org
> >> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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[freenet-dev] Fwd: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012

[Michael Grube]

Thanks for the info!

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> fyi
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: David Hausheer 
> Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 5:27 PM
> Subject: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012
> To: David Hausheer 
>
>
> ##**##**#
>  IEEE P2P 2012
>  12th International Conference in Peer-to-Peer Computing
> CALL FOR PAPERS
> ##**##**#
>
> September 3-5 2012, Tarragona (Spain)
> http://www.ieee-p2p.org
>
> ##**##**##
> # Papers Due: *** April, 13 2012 ***
> # Accepted papers will be published in the conference proceedings
> # by the IEEE Computer Society Press, which are indexed by EI.
> ##**##**##
>
> The P2P'12 conference solicits papers on all aspects of large-scale
> distributed computing. Of particular interest is research that
> furthers the state-of-the-art in the design and analysis of
> large-scale distributed applications and systems, or that investigates
> real, deployed, applications or systems. We seek high-quality and
> original contributions on this general theme along a range of topics
> including:
>
>* Information retrieval and query support
>* P2P for cloud computing
>* Large-scale infrastructure technology
>* Semantic overlay networks and semantic query routing
>* P2P for grids, clouds, and datacenters
>* Deployed (commercial) applications and systems
>* Security, trust, and reputation
>* Cooperation, incentives, and fairness
>* P2P economics
>* Social networks
>* Overlay architectures and topologies
>* Overlay interaction with underlying infrastructure
>* Overlay monitoring and management
>* Self-organization
>* P2P applications and systems over mobile networks
>* Measurements and modeling of P2P and cloud systems
>* Performance, robustness, and scalability
>
>
>
> ++**++
> Paper submission guidelines
> ++**++
>
> Papers can be submitted either as full papers or as short papers
> (following the IEEE single-spaced two-column format and a 10-point
> font size). Full papers should not exceed 10 pages and short papers
> should not exceed 5 pages. Short papers are expected to present work
> that is less mature but holds promise, articulate a high-level vision,
> describe challenging future directions or offer results that do not
> merit a full submission. Please note that short papers also need
> evaluation results or analysis to corroborate the claims of the paper
> and that a paper longer than 5 pages is treated as a full paper.
>
> Papers must be submitted electronically in PDF format through the EDAS
> paper-submission website linked from the conference website. IEEE
> templates for LaTeX and Microsoft Word, as well as related
> information, can be found at the IEEE Digital Toolbox webpage. The
> conference proceedings will be published by the IEEE Communications
> Society.
>
> All submissions will be evaluated using a double-blind review
> process. To ensure blind reviewing, papers should be anonymized by
> removing author names and affiliations, as well as by masking any
> information about projects and bibliographic references, etc. that
> might reveal the authors' identities. Papers that are not properly
> anonymized will be rejected without review. Submitted papers should
> describe original and previously unpublished research and are not
> allowed to be simultaneously submitted or under review elsewhere.
>
> *Note:* P2P 2012 will experiment with two changes to the traditional
> reviewing process: two-phase reviewing and "open reviews". These
> changes are an effort to provide additional feedback to authors of
> submitted papers and make the overall reviewing process more
> transparent. Specifically, all paper submissions will receive between
> 3 and 5 reviews each; while all papers will receive at least 3
> reviews, papers of sufficient quality will undergo a second reviewing
> phase. In addition, the camera-ready version of each accepted paper
> will be accompanied by a 1-page summary that consists of the
> significant portions of the (anonymized) reviews that the paper
> received during the reviewing process and a 1-paragraph summary by the
> authors detailing how they addressed the reviewers' comments. The
> conference proceedings as well as the conference website will include
> the camera-ready version of each accepted paper together with the
> corresponding 1-page summary review.
>
> In addition to the main conference, IEEE P2P 2012 will have a poster
> and demo session, and a conference best paper award.  Thanks to the
> supporting organizations, P2P 2012 also plans to offer a small number
> of travel grants . Application 

Re: [freenet-dev] Fwd: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012

[Michael Grube]

Thanks for the info!

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 fyi

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: David Hausheer haush...@kom.tu-darmstadt.de
 Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 5:27 PM
 Subject: Call for Papers: IEEE P2P 2012
 To: David Hausheer haush...@kom.tu-darmstadt.de


 ##**##**#
  IEEE P2P 2012
  12th International Conference in Peer-to-Peer Computing
 CALL FOR PAPERS
 ##**##**#

 September 3-5 2012, Tarragona (Spain)
 http://www.ieee-p2p.org

 ##**##**##
 # Papers Due: *** April, 13 2012 ***
 # Accepted papers will be published in the conference proceedings
 # by the IEEE Computer Society Press, which are indexed by EI.
 ##**##**##

 The P2P'12 conference solicits papers on all aspects of large-scale
 distributed computing. Of particular interest is research that
 furthers the state-of-the-art in the design and analysis of
 large-scale distributed applications and systems, or that investigates
 real, deployed, applications or systems. We seek high-quality and
 original contributions on this general theme along a range of topics
 including:

* Information retrieval and query support
* P2P for cloud computing
* Large-scale infrastructure technology
* Semantic overlay networks and semantic query routing
* P2P for grids, clouds, and datacenters
* Deployed (commercial) applications and systems
* Security, trust, and reputation
* Cooperation, incentives, and fairness
* P2P economics
* Social networks
* Overlay architectures and topologies
* Overlay interaction with underlying infrastructure
* Overlay monitoring and management
* Self-organization
* P2P applications and systems over mobile networks
* Measurements and modeling of P2P and cloud systems
* Performance, robustness, and scalability



 ++**++
 Paper submission guidelines
 ++**++

 Papers can be submitted either as full papers or as short papers
 (following the IEEE single-spaced two-column format and a 10-point
 font size). Full papers should not exceed 10 pages and short papers
 should not exceed 5 pages. Short papers are expected to present work
 that is less mature but holds promise, articulate a high-level vision,
 describe challenging future directions or offer results that do not
 merit a full submission. Please note that short papers also need
 evaluation results or analysis to corroborate the claims of the paper
 and that a paper longer than 5 pages is treated as a full paper.

 Papers must be submitted electronically in PDF format through the EDAS
 paper-submission website linked from the conference website. IEEE
 templates for LaTeX and Microsoft Word, as well as related
 information, can be found at the IEEE Digital Toolbox webpage. The
 conference proceedings will be published by the IEEE Communications
 Society.

 All submissions will be evaluated using a double-blind review
 process. To ensure blind reviewing, papers should be anonymized by
 removing author names and affiliations, as well as by masking any
 information about projects and bibliographic references, etc. that
 might reveal the authors' identities. Papers that are not properly
 anonymized will be rejected without review. Submitted papers should
 describe original and previously unpublished research and are not
 allowed to be simultaneously submitted or under review elsewhere.

 *Note:* P2P 2012 will experiment with two changes to the traditional
 reviewing process: two-phase reviewing and open reviews. These
 changes are an effort to provide additional feedback to authors of
 submitted papers and make the overall reviewing process more
 transparent. Specifically, all paper submissions will receive between
 3 and 5 reviews each; while all papers will receive at least 3
 reviews, papers of sufficient quality will undergo a second reviewing
 phase. In addition, the camera-ready version of each accepted paper
 will be accompanied by a 1-page summary that consists of the
 significant portions of the (anonymized) reviews that the paper
 received during the reviewing process and a 1-paragraph summary by the
 authors detailing how they addressed the reviewers' comments. The
 conference proceedings as well as the conference website will include
 the camera-ready version of each accepted paper together with the
 corresponding 1-page summary review.

 In addition to the main conference, IEEE P2P 2012 will have a poster
 and demo session, and a conference best paper award.  Thanks to the
 supporting organizations, P2P 2012 also plans to offer a small number
 of travel grants . Application Information for these grants 

[freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Michael Grube]

I wonder if there's a competitive debugging phase like in TopCoder. Holy
crap, that would be awesome!

At any rate, imho Freenet needs to do this now that the resident expert has
dedicated his time to school.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Michael Grube wrote:

> If I understand correctly, you pick a task that nobody has time to do. You
> then outsource that task. People then compete for your money with their
> solutions.
>
> It's like TopCoder but you get paid to win! Awesome.
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Daxter  wrote:
>
>> That's a very interesting platform indeed? but how do you decide which
>> tasks to outsource?
>>
>> -Daxter
>>
>> On Jan 5, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
>>
>> I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This
>> could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done?
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Devl mailing list
>> Devl at freenetproject.org
>> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
>
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[freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Michael Grube]

If I understand correctly, you pick a task that nobody has time to do. You
then outsource that task. People then compete for your money with their
solutions.

It's like TopCoder but you get paid to win! Awesome.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Daxter  wrote:

> That's a very interesting platform indeed? but how do you decide which
> tasks to outsource?
>
> -Daxter
>
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
>
> I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This
> could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done?
>
> [snip]
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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[freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Michael Grube]

This is something I would get pretty excited about. +1

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This
> could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done...
>
> -- Forwarded message --
>
> ...snip...
>
> My name is Rich Jones, and I'm the lead developer and director of a
> project called Gun.io, a platform for open source project managers to raise
> funds and to hire open source freelancers for microtasks on their projects.
> I'm writing to you today to invite you to give it a try!
>
> The way it works is pretty simple: you post a task which needs to be done
> for your project and offer up an amount of money to pay for it. Other
> people can then contribute to this pool of money, or they can work on the
> task assigned. The first person to complete the task to your satisfaction
> will then be awarded all of the money in the pool.
>
> Gun.io is perfect for discrete tasks that your project needs to move
> forward, like fixing bugs, adding new features, and writing tests, examples
> and documentation. It's a great way to raise and spend funds, too, as your
> donors will know that their contributions are going directly to improving
> the project. Gun.io is how you turn a good project into a great project.
>
> Gun.io has already used successfully by the Etherpad Foundation and
> Mozilla, the makers of Firefox. We are a fairly new project, but we already
> have thousands of registered developers who will be notified when your gig
> is posted.
>
> This is also completely free for open source projects! I developed Gun.io
> because I am an open source developer myself, and I wanted to hire
> assistance for my projects but was unsatisfied with offshore freelancers. I
> wanted to build a community-based solution which would have open source
> developers working for each other, so that's what we've made. I think that
> Freenet could really benefit from what we've built, so please give it a try!
>
> You can see our homepage here: http://gun.io
> you can browse our open source gigs here: http://gun.io/open/
> and you can post your own here: http://gun.io/open/new/
>
> If you've got any questions or comments (or if you just want to chat),
> feel free to email me any time at rich dot gun dot io.
>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Michael Grube]

This is something I would get pretty excited about. +1

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This
 could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done...

 -- Forwarded message --

 ...snip...

 My name is Rich Jones, and I'm the lead developer and director of a
 project called Gun.io, a platform for open source project managers to raise
 funds and to hire open source freelancers for microtasks on their projects.
 I'm writing to you today to invite you to give it a try!

 The way it works is pretty simple: you post a task which needs to be done
 for your project and offer up an amount of money to pay for it. Other
 people can then contribute to this pool of money, or they can work on the
 task assigned. The first person to complete the task to your satisfaction
 will then be awarded all of the money in the pool.

 Gun.io is perfect for discrete tasks that your project needs to move
 forward, like fixing bugs, adding new features, and writing tests, examples
 and documentation. It's a great way to raise and spend funds, too, as your
 donors will know that their contributions are going directly to improving
 the project. Gun.io is how you turn a good project into a great project.

 Gun.io has already used successfully by the Etherpad Foundation and
 Mozilla, the makers of Firefox. We are a fairly new project, but we already
 have thousands of registered developers who will be notified when your gig
 is posted.

 This is also completely free for open source projects! I developed Gun.io
 because I am an open source developer myself, and I wanted to hire
 assistance for my projects but was unsatisfied with offshore freelancers. I
 wanted to build a community-based solution which would have open source
 developers working for each other, so that's what we've made. I think that
 Freenet could really benefit from what we've built, so please give it a try!

 You can see our homepage here: http://gun.io
 you can browse our open source gigs here: http://gun.io/open/
 and you can post your own here: http://gun.io/open/new/

 If you've got any questions or comments (or if you just want to chat),
 feel free to email me any time at rich dot gun dot io.


 --
 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Michael Grube]

If I understand correctly, you pick a task that nobody has time to do. You
then outsource that task. People then compete for your money with their
solutions.

It's like TopCoder but you get paid to win! Awesome.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Daxter xovat...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's a very interesting platform indeed… but how do you decide which
 tasks to outsource?

 -Daxter

 On Jan 5, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:

 I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This
 could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done…

 [snip]

 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org



 ___
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 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

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Re: [freenet-dev] Gun.io

[Michael Grube]

I wonder if there's a competitive debugging phase like in TopCoder. Holy
crap, that would be awesome!

At any rate, imho Freenet needs to do this now that the resident expert has
dedicated his time to school.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.comwrote:

 If I understand correctly, you pick a task that nobody has time to do. You
 then outsource that task. People then compete for your money with their
 solutions.

 It's like TopCoder but you get paid to win! Awesome.

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Daxter xovat...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's a very interesting platform indeed… but how do you decide which
 tasks to outsource?

 -Daxter

 On Jan 5, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:

 I recieved the following email from Rich Jones, creator of Gun.io.  This
 could be a very interesting way for us to get specific tasks done…

 [snip]

 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org



 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl



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[freenet-dev] Addressing the "Pitch Black" attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> This is great Michael!
>
> What will the "output" of your work be?  I'm guessing an academic
> paper that will be published?  Do you have a professor supervising
> your work?
>

The output of my work will be simulations of the attack against some
potential countermeasures as well as a paper. I do have an advisor
supervising the work but I'm sure I'll be reaching out to the the community.



> I'm happy to provide feedback on whatever you produce, just let me know.
>

Will do!


>
> Ian.
>
> On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Michael Grube 
> wrote:
> > Created a stand-in Wiki page. You'll be able to track all of my progress
> > from here.
> >
> > https://snark.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W1
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Michael Grube  >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Tried creating a Wiki Page, had the same problem Ian described.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Grube <
> michael.grube at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Ian,
> >>>
> >>> I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete
> this
> >>> task to graduate from college ;)
> >>>
> >>> That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
> >>> course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
> >>> attention at the moment.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> What is the latest status of addressing the "Pitch Black" attack
> >>>> described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?
> >>>>
> >>>> I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
> >>>> periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
> >>>> this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
> >>>> returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
> >>>> you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
> >>>> up your current position for the random one.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
> >>>> paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
> >>>> this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
> >>>> moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
> >>>> it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ian.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ian Clarke
> >>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
> >>>> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
> >>>> ___
> >>>> Devl mailing list
> >>>> Devl at freenetproject.org
> >>>> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Devl mailing list
> > Devl at freenetproject.org
> > http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Personal blog: http://blog.locut.us/
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Addressing the Pitch Black attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:

 This is great Michael!

 What will the output of your work be?  I'm guessing an academic
 paper that will be published?  Do you have a professor supervising
 your work?


The output of my work will be simulations of the attack against some
potential countermeasures as well as a paper. I do have an advisor
supervising the work but I'm sure I'll be reaching out to the the community.



 I'm happy to provide feedback on whatever you produce, just let me know.


Will do!



 Ian.

 On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Created a stand-in Wiki page. You'll be able to track all of my progress
  from here.
 
  https://snark.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W1
 
 
  On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.com
 
  wrote:
 
  Tried creating a Wiki Page, had the same problem Ian described.
 
 
  On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Grube 
 michael.gr...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Ian,
 
  I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete
 this
  task to graduate from college ;)
 
  That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
  course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
  attention at the moment.
 
  Mike
 
  On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:
 
  What is the latest status of addressing the Pitch Black attack
  described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?
 
  I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
  periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
  this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
  returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
  you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
  up your current position for the random one.
 
  Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
  paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
  this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
  moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
  it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.
 
  Ian.
 
  --
  Ian Clarke
  Founder, The Freenet Project
  Email: i...@freenetproject.org
  ___
  Devl mailing list
  Devl@freenetproject.org
  http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
 
 
 
 
  ___
  Devl mailing list
  Devl@freenetproject.org
  http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl



 --
 Ian Clarke
 Personal blog: http://blog.locut.us/
 ___
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 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

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[freenet-dev] Addressing the "Pitch Black" attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

Created a stand-in Wiki page. You'll be able to track all of my progress
from here.

https://snark.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W1

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Michael Grube wrote:

> Tried creating a Wiki Page, had the same problem Ian described.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Grube  gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>
>> I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete this
>> task to graduate from college ;)
>>
>> That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
>> course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
>> attention at the moment.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>>
>>> What is the latest status of addressing the "Pitch Black" attack
>>> described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?
>>>
>>> I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
>>> periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
>>> this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
>>> returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
>>> you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
>>> up your current position for the random one.
>>>
>>> Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
>>> paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
>>> this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
>>> moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
>>> it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.
>>>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian Clarke
>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
>>> ___
>>> Devl mailing list
>>> Devl at freenetproject.org
>>> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>>
>>
>
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[freenet-dev] Addressing the "Pitch Black" attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

Tried creating a Wiki Page, had the same problem Ian described.

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Grube wrote:

> Ian,
>
> I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete this
> task to graduate from college ;)
>
> That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
> course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
> attention at the moment.
>
> Mike
> On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>
>> What is the latest status of addressing the "Pitch Black" attack
>> described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?
>>
>> I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
>> periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
>> this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
>> returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
>> you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
>> up your current position for the random one.
>>
>> Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
>> paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
>> this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
>> moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
>> it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> --
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
>> ___
>> Devl mailing list
>> Devl at freenetproject.org
>> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
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[freenet-dev] Addressing the "Pitch Black" attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

Ian,

I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete this
task to graduate from college ;)

That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
attention at the moment.

Mike
On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> What is the latest status of addressing the "Pitch Black" attack
> described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?
>
> I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
> periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
> this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
> returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
> you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
> up your current position for the random one.
>
> Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
> paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
> this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
> moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
> it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.
>
> Ian.
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: ian at freenetproject.org
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Addressing the Pitch Black attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

Ian,

I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete this
task to graduate from college ;)

That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
attention at the moment.

Mike
On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 What is the latest status of addressing the Pitch Black attack
 described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?

 I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
 periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
 this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
 returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
 you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
 up your current position for the random one.

 Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
 paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
 this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
 moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
 it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.

 Ian.

 --
 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Addressing the Pitch Black attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

Tried creating a Wiki Page, had the same problem Ian described.

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.comwrote:

 Ian,

 I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete this
 task to graduate from college ;)

 That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
 course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
 attention at the moment.

 Mike
 On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 What is the latest status of addressing the Pitch Black attack
 described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?

 I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
 periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
 this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
 returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
 you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
 up your current position for the random one.

 Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
 paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
 this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
 moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
 it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.

 Ian.

 --
 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl


___
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Devl@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Addressing the Pitch Black attack (aka anyone want to write a paper?)

[Michael Grube]

Created a stand-in Wiki page. You'll be able to track all of my progress
from here.

https://snark.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W1

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Michael Grube michael.gr...@gmail.comwrote:

 Tried creating a Wiki Page, had the same problem Ian described.


 On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Grube 
 michael.gr...@gmail.comwrote:

 Ian,

 I've actually made a commitment to do this and will have to complete this
 task to graduate from college ;)

 That means I'll be done before May and will start in about 2 weeks. Of
 course I can start sooner than that, but something else is gripping my
 attention at the moment.

 Mike
 On Dec 25, 2011 3:21 AM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:

 What is the latest status of addressing the Pitch Black attack
 described here: http://grothoff.org/christian/pitchblack.pdf ?

 I understand that the basic idea is to counteract the clustering by
 periodically randomizing node locations, and Oskar's refinement to
 this is to pick a key randomly, route for it with a special query that
 returns the nearest node identifier to the key found. If the closest
 you can get is much further than your distance to your neighbors, give
 up your current position for the random one.

 Is this the latest thinking on this?  There was talk of working on a
 paper which describes this solution and validates it.  Is anyone doing
 this?  Is anyone interested in doing this?  Unfortunately at the
 moment the attack remains unanswered in the academic literature, and
 it has already caused at least one of our papers to be rejected.

 Ian.

 --
 Ian Clarke
 Founder, The Freenet Project
 Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl



___
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[freenet-dev] Usability testing

[Michael Grube]

I'm actually putting together a presentation to show off Freenet to a new
hackerspace that just started up where I am for this coming Friday. This
doesn't fall in the ungeeky category, but maybe I'll insert the slides into
Freenet and post a URI on the list. Maybe we can even pick up some extra
help.

On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Matthew Toseland  wrote:

> [20:30:58]  Gaming4JC: anyway, if you can do some usability testing
> with your un-geeky friends, please do so
> [20:31:21]  Gaming4JC: usability testing = get them to install it,
> don't help them unless they get really stuck, record what they have problems
> with and what their comments are
> [20:31:29]  toad_: they usually go blank at the initial
> interface, up until they click on Linkageddon... then they scream and
> uninstall it... -.-
> [20:31:44]  Gaming4JC: :|
> [20:31:53]  Gaming4JC: because linkageddon links to some cp? :|
> [20:31:59]  yepyep
> [20:32:20]  Gaming4JC: do they try the search box?
> [20:32:27]  toad_: imo, we need a family friendly index. Pretty
> much like AFK index, but more up to date.
> [20:32:30]  Gaming4JC: everyone knows what to do with a search box
> ... our problem is ours sucks
> [20:32:33]  toad_: not that I know of.
> [20:32:39]  Gaming4JC: we have ... AFK :|
> [20:32:43]  and it's out of date yeah
> [20:32:56]  takes too long to search, people grow bored to fast
> [20:33:03]  too*
> [20:33:05]  :P
> [20:33:19]  but in any case, we cannot legally have a policy of "no
> child porn"; we have to link to what indexes people make ...
> [20:33:44]  true, but we should make the initial links more...
> user friendly
> [20:33:49]  and family friendly
> [20:33:59]  if people want to find crap it's easy enough to get
> without an index
> [20:34:01]  ;P
> [20:34:01]  Gaming4JC: we choose indexes based on usefulness. that
> means, a) easy to find what you want and b) hard to find what you don't by
> accident
> [20:34:21]  Gaming4JC: i.e. no offensive links without
> warnings/descriptions
> [20:34:43]  toad_: yes, that should be a must. No eye-full
> suprises.
> [20:34:48]  description = win. :)
> [20:35:45]  Gaming4JC: so the problem is they don't understand what
> to do with it after it's installed?
> [20:35:53]  toad_: right.
> [20:36:26]  toad_: Which to me is a little confusing, I found it
> easy to find stuff. But most ungeeky friends just don't get it
> [20:36:43]  maybe GUI needs to be more intuitive.
> [20:36:44]  Gaming4JC: they expect it to look like facebook, i
> guesS?
> [20:36:55]  toad_: yeah something like that
> [20:36:55]  *gag*
> [20:36:56]  xD
>
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>
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[freenet-dev] Seednodes wanted!

[Michael Grube]

If you have no other volunteers, I can offer my node roughly 14x7.

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Matthew Toseland  wrote:

> On Friday 13 May 2011 19:26:24 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > We need more seednodes for opennet. If you can run a seednode please send
> me your opennet (not darknet) noderef. You can find it here:
> > http://127.0.0.1:/strangers/myref.fref
> >
> > To be a seednode you need to:
> > - Have reasonable uptime, as close to 24x7 as reasonably possible.
> > - Have your ports forwarded reliably. The whole point of being a seednode
> is new users' nodes can contact your node to do their initial announcements,
> so you need to be able to receive packets from anywhere.
> > - Have at least 40KB/sec upstream bandwidth dedicated to Freenet.
> > - Have a static IP or a dyndns address.
> >
> > Please send me your opennet refs! Thanks.
> >
> One thing I missed: You need to enable "Be a seednode?" on the opennet
> config page.
>
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[freenet-dev] $1000 of zazzle Freenet merchandise (t-shirts, mugs, etc etc)

[Michael Grube]

Volunteer here for plan 3 ;)

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:04 AM, xor  wrote:

> There are multiple options:
> (1) Give away the stuff to random people at some hacker congress as
> advertisement.
> (2) Evil plan: Sell the stuff >:] Use earned money as funds for FPI
> (3) Spent all of it on stickers and let some of the known-to-be-reliable
> developers do some guerilla marketing with them at places which are highly
> frequented by possible users. Nerd-pubs, etc.
>
> I would vote for (3). I would also offer to do this myself if I get mailed
> stickers :)
> Actually I would love to do this, before you even mailed this I already was
> sort of angry at myself that I didn't do any effort on this yet
> I think the amount of stickers we can get for $1000 will be a few hundred
> thousand so we can do LOTS of marketing with that.
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>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Seednodes wanted!

[Michael Grube]

If you have no other volunteers, I can offer my node roughly 14x7.

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
 wrote:

 On Friday 13 May 2011 19:26:24 Matthew Toseland wrote:
  We need more seednodes for opennet. If you can run a seednode please send
 me your opennet (not darknet) noderef. You can find it here:
  http://127.0.0.1:/strangers/myref.fref
 
  To be a seednode you need to:
  - Have reasonable uptime, as close to 24x7 as reasonably possible.
  - Have your ports forwarded reliably. The whole point of being a seednode
 is new users' nodes can contact your node to do their initial announcements,
 so you need to be able to receive packets from anywhere.
  - Have at least 40KB/sec upstream bandwidth dedicated to Freenet.
  - Have a static IP or a dyndns address.
 
  Please send me your opennet refs! Thanks.
 
 One thing I missed: You need to enable Be a seednode? on the opennet
 config page.

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Re: [freenet-dev] $1000 of zazzle Freenet merchandise (t-shirts, mugs, etc etc)

[Michael Grube]

Volunteer here for plan 3 ;)

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:04 AM, xor x...@gmx.li wrote:

 There are multiple options:
 (1) Give away the stuff to random people at some hacker congress as
 advertisement.
 (2) Evil plan: Sell the stuff :] Use earned money as funds for FPI
 (3) Spent all of it on stickers and let some of the known-to-be-reliable
 developers do some guerilla marketing with them at places which are highly
 frequented by possible users. Nerd-pubs, etc.

 I would vote for (3). I would also offer to do this myself if I get mailed
 stickers :)
 Actually I would love to do this, before you even mailed this I already was
 sort of angry at myself that I didn't do any effort on this yet
 I think the amount of stickers we can get for $1000 will be a few hundred
 thousand so we can do LOTS of marketing with that.
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

___
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[freenet-dev] Prelim Glance at DARPA-BAA-10-69

[Michael Grube]

Not something I would call thorough, but here are some observations and
thoughts I put together this morning.

Before I paste this I think it's worth noting that the PDF describing the
Proposal says "The Government desires that all technical data or computer
software that is developed or delivered under this program should be
furnished to the Government with *at least Government Purpose Rights*.  If
there is client side software and/or technical data, the Government
*desires that
software and/or technical data be freely redistributable.* "

We could keep the changes we make! I think this is good news :)


Ok, here it goes. Again, not what I would call thorough - just a starter:

DARPA-BAA-10-69 Safer Warfighter Communications


*DEADLINE FOR PROPOSAL*
7/6/10

>From http://www.darpa.mil/tcto/solicitations/BAA-10-69.html:

General requirements:
"safe, resilient communications over the Internet, particularly in
situations in which a third-party is attempting to discover the identity or
location of the end users, or block the communication"

and

"required to support applications such as instant messaging, electronic
mail, social networking, streaming video, voice over Internet protocol
(VoIP), video conferencing, and other media that promote effective
communication."

Freenet particularly does not fit the bill for supporting existing social
networking sites, instant messaging, streaming video or VoIP. Freenet to my
knowledge does not have software that allows access to the non-anonymous
internet.

What do people think about developing software to make this possible? Would
it be possible to speed freenet up quite a bit by perhaps not making
encryption mandatory in all cases or selecting a different routing
algorithm? My technical knowledge of freenet is maybe poor by comparison to
the rest of Freenet-devl, I'm just throwing ideas out.

From
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity=form=317c763016b2af11ac6370670e650e84=core&_cview=0
:

A sightly better example of what they are looking for is given:

"any and all technologies that allow anonymous Internet communications to
bypass techniques that suppress, localize, and/or corrupt information such
as:
Internet Protocol (IP)-address filtering...
Domain Naming Service (DNS) hijacking...
filtering that captures and analyzes the content of the user's network
traffic through deep packet inspection.."

IP Address Filtering - This is with respect to the web/internet as it exists
and Freenet has no current capabilities even to access the web/internet let
alone bypassing filtering by IP.

/** Perhaps an app could be developed to allow individuals to access a
computer on the Tor network as a relatively quick and dirty hack? **/

DNS Hijacking - Freenet obviously is very suited to avoid this. The question
again becomes access to the non-Freenet Internet.

/** It's also worth noting that in the case of connecting to a Tor node, the
hijacking vulnerability moves to wherever the gateway is operating.**/

Deep packet inspection - Freenet fits the bill on this one pretty well,
right?

/** Vulnerability again moved to Tor node **/

After reviewing the general requirements it seems to me that Freenet is
missing:
1. Anonymous Access to the Web/Other internet services
2. The speed required to stream data

Probably not obvious problems to solve with our current code base. I'm not
sure if DARPA is looking for a "strength in numbers" approach like Tor or if
something of that nature would be acceptable to them.

This might be slightly discouraging, but remember that all that needs to be
submitted is a good solution and we could get funding to develop as we
needed! :) It also seems to me that the general features requested from
DARPA here would be desirable for the public as well and may bring more
attention to Freenet if implemented well.
-- next part --
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[freenet-dev] Prelim Glance at DARPA-BAA-10-69

[Michael Grube]

Not something I would call thorough, but here are some observations and
thoughts I put together this morning.

Before I paste this I think it's worth noting that the PDF describing the
Proposal says The Government desires that all technical data or computer
software that is developed or delivered under this program should be
furnished to the Government with *at least Government Purpose Rights*.  If
there is client side software and/or technical data, the Government
*desires that
software and/or technical data be freely redistributable.* 

We could keep the changes we make! I think this is good news :)


Ok, here it goes. Again, not what I would call thorough - just a starter:

DARPA-BAA-10-69 Safer Warfighter Communications


*DEADLINE FOR PROPOSAL*
7/6/10

From http://www.darpa.mil/tcto/solicitations/BAA-10-69.html:

General requirements:
safe, resilient communications over the Internet, particularly in
situations in which a third-party is attempting to discover the identity or
location of the end users, or block the communication

and

required to support applications such as instant messaging, electronic
mail, social networking, streaming video, voice over Internet protocol
(VoIP), video conferencing, and other media that promote effective
communication.

Freenet particularly does not fit the bill for supporting existing social
networking sites, instant messaging, streaming video or VoIP. Freenet to my
knowledge does not have software that allows access to the non-anonymous
internet.

What do people think about developing software to make this possible? Would
it be possible to speed freenet up quite a bit by perhaps not making
encryption mandatory in all cases or selecting a different routing
algorithm? My technical knowledge of freenet is maybe poor by comparison to
the rest of Freenet-devl, I'm just throwing ideas out.

From
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunitymode=formid=317c763016b2af11ac6370670e650e84tab=core_cview=0
:

A sightly better example of what they are looking for is given:

any and all technologies that allow anonymous Internet communications to
bypass techniques that suppress, localize, and/or corrupt information such
as:
Internet Protocol (IP)-address filtering...
Domain Naming Service (DNS) hijacking...
filtering that captures and analyzes the content of the user's network
traffic through deep packet inspection..

IP Address Filtering - This is with respect to the web/internet as it exists
and Freenet has no current capabilities even to access the web/internet let
alone bypassing filtering by IP.

/** Perhaps an app could be developed to allow individuals to access a
computer on the Tor network as a relatively quick and dirty hack? **/

DNS Hijacking - Freenet obviously is very suited to avoid this. The question
again becomes access to the non-Freenet Internet.

/** It's also worth noting that in the case of connecting to a Tor node, the
hijacking vulnerability moves to wherever the gateway is operating.**/

Deep packet inspection - Freenet fits the bill on this one pretty well,
right?

/** Vulnerability again moved to Tor node **/

After reviewing the general requirements it seems to me that Freenet is
missing:
1. Anonymous Access to the Web/Other internet services
2. The speed required to stream data

Probably not obvious problems to solve with our current code base. I'm not
sure if DARPA is looking for a strength in numbers approach like Tor or if
something of that nature would be acceptable to them.

This might be slightly discouraging, but remember that all that needs to be
submitted is a good solution and we could get funding to develop as we
needed! :) It also seems to me that the general features requested from
DARPA here would be desirable for the public as well and may bring more
attention to Freenet if implemented well.
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[freenet-dev] DARPA Research/Proposal

[michael . grube]

If nobody else will take this, I have a long weekend and can probably do  
some preliminary research. Not sure I can commit to writing a proposal yet.
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[freenet-dev] Proposal for Google Summer of Code 2009

[Michael Grube]

Name:
Michael Grube

Email:
michael.grube at gmail.com

Project Title: Automatic generation of Freesite indexes using the WoT
concept

Benefits to the Community:
Manually generated freesite indexes have some obvious limits to how many
freesites they can organize
and allow for the possibility of censorship.
The end result of this project would be a plugin that allowed the freenet
community to automatically
generate and maintain a freesite index. This would save time on the creation
of freesite indexes and
allow users to discover material relevant to their interests much more
easily. It is also important to note
that this would allow creators of new freesites to have their site become
known much more easily,
which imho is a road block against the creation of new content on freenet.

Expected Results:
- The creation of a plugin that allows users to recommend a key for
submission to a certain group or category(analogous to a Freetalk board)
- The creation of a simple, easy to use user interface
- The ability of a user to create a new group/category as well as
subcategories
- The ability of an individual to apply WoT to filter poor or unfitting
suggestions, categories
- The ability of a user to save an automatically generated index as an html
file suitable for distribution as a freesite.
It should be noted that this system can extend to beyond simply suggesting a
freesite for an index dedicated to a user-defined category, but that
adding features such as a

Project Schedule:
The time required to complete the above listed goals should be about 3
months. This will not be a problem, as I will have no other obligations.
I will be able to start on this project as early as the first week of May
and, if successful, plan on continuing work on this project well after GSoC
has ended.

Bio:
I am a second year Computer Science and Engineering undergraduate student
and the University of Toledo, Ohio and have completed the majority of my
programming courses using Java. I am passionately interested in the idea of
creating a decentralized, self organizing communication network and have
ideas I believe to be original for organizing information in a system that
is democratic in nature. Since discovering the Freenet project several
months ago I have become extremely interested in contributing to the
improvement of performance and "user-friendliness" of freenet.  The
development of these features I believe are essential to seducing a larger
population of Freenet users. My simple wish is to make Freenet an
attractive, viable solution for the general public!

Thank you for your consideration.
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[freenet-dev] Proposal for Google Summer of Code 2009

[Michael Grube]

Name:
Michael Grube

Email:
michael.gr...@gmail.com

Project Title: Automatic generation of Freesite indexes using the WoT
concept

Benefits to the Community:
Manually generated freesite indexes have some obvious limits to how many
freesites they can organize
and allow for the possibility of censorship.
The end result of this project would be a plugin that allowed the freenet
community to automatically
generate and maintain a freesite index. This would save time on the creation
of freesite indexes and
allow users to discover material relevant to their interests much more
easily. It is also important to note
that this would allow creators of new freesites to have their site become
known much more easily,
which imho is a road block against the creation of new content on freenet.

Expected Results:
- The creation of a plugin that allows users to recommend a key for
submission to a certain group or category(analogous to a Freetalk board)
- The creation of a simple, easy to use user interface
- The ability of a user to create a new group/category as well as
subcategories
- The ability of an individual to apply WoT to filter poor or unfitting
suggestions, categories
- The ability of a user to save an automatically generated index as an html
file suitable for distribution as a freesite.
It should be noted that this system can extend to beyond simply suggesting a
freesite for an index dedicated to a user-defined category, but that
adding features such as a

Project Schedule:
The time required to complete the above listed goals should be about 3
months. This will not be a problem, as I will have no other obligations.
I will be able to start on this project as early as the first week of May
and, if successful, plan on continuing work on this project well after GSoC
has ended.

Bio:
I am a second year Computer Science and Engineering undergraduate student
and the University of Toledo, Ohio and have completed the majority of my
programming courses using Java. I am passionately interested in the idea of
creating a decentralized, self organizing communication network and have
ideas I believe to be original for organizing information in a system that
is democratic in nature. Since discovering the Freenet project several
months ago I have become extremely interested in contributing to the
improvement of performance and user-friendliness of freenet.  The
development of these features I believe are essential to seducing a larger
population of Freenet users. My simple wish is to make Freenet an
attractive, viable solution for the general public!

Thank you for your consideration.
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