On Thu, 2017-03-16 at 19:54 -0400, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 03/16/2017 05:48 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> >
> > Except that rdmd needs separating out as a distinct thing so that
> > ldc
> > users can use it.
> >
>
> I'm pretty sure it does work
On 03/16/2017 05:48 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Except that rdmd needs separating out as a distinct thing so that ldc
users can use it.
I'm pretty sure it does work fine with ldc. Just do:
rdmd --compiler=ldmd [...otherflags...]
On Wed, 2017-03-15 at 23:36 +, jmh530 via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> […]
> otherwise use Python or R or other languages to use D. rdmd works
> just fine for me.
Except that rdmd needs separating out as a distinct thing so that ldc
users can use it.
--
Russel.
On Wednesday, 15 March 2017 at 21:10:49 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote:
A Jupyter kernel exists - written by John Colvin. It works and
I have used it, and you can write python in one sell and D in
another. It needs some work though, and so I am sure if
somebody would like to contribute pull
On Saturday, 4 March 2017 at 19:36:30 UTC, Jon Degenhardt wrote:
On Saturday, 4 March 2017 at 09:13:15 UTC, Seb wrote:
On Friday, 3 March 2017 at 19:18:31 UTC, jmh530 wrote:
A Jupyter kernel would go a long way to students being able
to easily play around with it in a browser. There's already
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 14:49:42 UTC, Atila Neves wrote:
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 05:50:01 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
It's actually rather rare to *need* to avoid the GC -- only
niche applications need that, like if you're writing a game
engine that has to avoid stop-the-world pauses (which
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 at 16:26:20 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
Learn the lesson from Java. It started with a truly crap GC and
everyone said Java is crap because the GC is garbage. D has
seemingly actually progressed beyond this stage technically but
not marketing wise. The Java folk worked
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 at 23:29:24 UTC, Jared Jeffries
wrote:
I've read the answer to questions like "Which is the best
programming language to learn in 2017?".
Nobody was telling anything about D, which is really sad,
because in my opinion D could be one of the best answers to
this
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 at 18:45:55 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
D seems to be in a situation where those who don't care have a
crap GC which needs to be improved and those who do care have
the tools to deal with it. So there needs to be ongoing
replacement of the D GC until there is something
On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 10:05:54 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
[...]
My gut feeling is that the D language execution and data model
is not compatible with a "do not stop the world" GC. However
this is opinion not really backed with evidence.
I've recently been made aware of [1] and [2]. GC
On Tue, 2017-03-07 at 11:06 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 06:45:55PM +, Rico Decho via Digitalmars-
> d wrote:
> [...]
> > But I don't think that D's GC is fine for people who care about it.
> >
> > If it is, why are people on this forum giving advices
On Tue, 2017-03-07 at 18:45 +, Rico Decho via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > D seems to be in a situation where those who don't care have a
> > crap GC which needs to be improved and those who do care have
> > the tools to deal with it. So there needs to be ongoing
> > replacement of the D GC
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 10:41:06PM -0500, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
> Yes, this. Although, granted, the OO-koolaid *was* quite strong indeed
> in those days.
>
> It really is strange to look back on all that, when I was fairly sold
> on OO too (just not quite as
On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 06:45:55PM +, Rico Decho via Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
> But I don't think that D's GC is fine for people who care about it.
>
> If it is, why are people on this forum giving advices on how to
> disable and/or avoid it for soft real-time applications where a GC
>
D seems to be in a situation where those who don't care have a
crap GC which needs to be improved and those who do care have
the tools to deal with it. So there needs to be ongoing
replacement of the D GC until there is something good, this is
a technical problem. That people who care about
On Mon, 2017-03-06 at 10:22 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>
[…]
> Nevertheless, it's certainly true that D's GC could use a major
> upgrade
> at some point. While it's not horrible, the present implementation
> does
> leave more to be desired. Hopefully the various efforts at GC by
On 03/06/2017 07:47 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Sun, Mar 05, 2017 at 05:26:08PM +, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Oh for the days when the only error message you ever got was 0c4.
You can get similar experiences even in modern times in the embedded
area (at least
On Sun, Mar 05, 2017 at 05:26:08PM +, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-03-03 at 09:33 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 07:12:07PM -0500, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa)
> > via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > > […]
> > Ahh, the memories! (And how
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 15:40:54 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
If this isn't a perfect example of D's marketing problem I
don't know what is. Someone who likes D and takes the time to
write on the forum yet thinks the GC will randomly run no
matter what.
To make it abundantly clear: I'm not
If you have a lot of total allocated memory, GC may still be
somewhat slow (because it has to scan a lot of memory, most of
which is still live). One possible approach is to do your
large-scale, long-term allocations outside the GC heap (i.e.,
use malloc) so that the amount of GC memory that
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 18:22:53 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
but I'm not sure what has come of it.
https://github.com/dlang/druntime/pull/1603
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 16:40:02 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
GC.disable doesn't guarantee the garbage collector won't run
In only exceptional cases
deems necessary for correct program behavior, such as during an
out of memory condition
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 05:52:40PM +, Rico Decho via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> Btw, I'm not promoting Nim here, just asking to take inspiration from
> its memory model ;)
Nevertheless, it's certainly true that D's GC could use a major upgrade
at some point. While it's not horrible, the present
Btw, I'm not promoting Nim here, just asking to take inspiration
from its memory model ;)
I've used Nim in the past, and while it's a nice language, D is
much closer to perfection regarding my personal needs and tastes.
I've actually converted all my Nim scripts to D, because :
1/ it doesn't
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 05:30:56PM +, Rico Decho via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > maybe that's what you're looking for:
> > https://dlang.org/phobos/core_memory.html#.GC.collect
>
> Indeed !
>
> I'll try to make some benchmarks with a 3D rendering loop to see how
> much time it takes if there is
maybe that's what you're looking for:
https://dlang.org/phobos/core_memory.html#.GC.collect
What is nice with Nim it that it has a GC heap PER THREAD. No
need to stop the other threads during a GC...
https://nim-lang.org/docs/threads.html
https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#threads
"Nim's
maybe that's what you're looking for:
https://dlang.org/phobos/core_memory.html#.GC.collect
Indeed !
I'll try to make some benchmarks with a 3D rendering loop to see
how much time it takes if there is not much to GC.
GC.disable doesn't guarantee the garbage collector won't run:
https://dlang.org/phobos/core_memory.html#.GC.disable I'm not
sure how much impact that has in practice.
That's why I'd like D to allow also Nim's alternative GC method.
https://nim-lang.org/docs/gc.html
Basically, you have the
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 15:40:54 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
...
For instance, you ask for GC when the game is in a menu or
after a background resource loading.
...
maybe that's what you're looking for:
https://dlang.org/phobos/core_memory.html#.GC.collect
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 16:42:50 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
Writing up a detailed example with code showing how to avoid
the GC in the most common situations, posting it on Reddit, and
then making it easy to find on dlang.org would be a good start.
Given the importance of these issues, it should
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 14:49:42 UTC, Atila Neves wrote:
Unfortunately, I have no ideas on how to remedy the situation.
I also don't know how to get people to stop believing that C is
magically fast either, which I think is a similar perception
problem.
Writing up a detailed example with
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 06:39:27 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
void loop() {
// code
}
void loadLevel() {
import core.memory : GC;
GC.disable();
while(stuff)
loop();
GC.collect();
}
GC.disable doesn't guarantee the garbage collector won't run:
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 15:40:54 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
If I remember well the garbage collection could be triggered
during any allocation, for instance when concatenating some
displayed text, and freeze all threads until the garbage
collection is done.
My understanding is that GC can be
If this isn't a perfect example of D's marketing problem I
don't know what is. Someone who likes D and takes the time to
write on the forum yet thinks the GC will randomly run no
matter what.
To make it abundantly clear: I'm not bashing on you in the
slightest, Rico Decho. I'm just pointing
void loop() {
// code
}
void loadLevel() {
import core.memory : GC;
GC.disable();
while(stuff)
loop();
GC.collect();
}
Also see EMSI containers for no gc containers with
deterministic destruction
https://github.com/economicmodeling/containers
Thanks for
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 05:50:01 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
It's actually rather rare to *need* to avoid the GC -- only
niche applications need that, like if you're writing a game
engine that has to avoid stop-the-world pauses (which can be
easily worked around, btw), or real-time medical
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 05:50:01 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
Actually it's my case. I'd LOVE to use D for game development
for instance, but I won't take the risk of having the GC pause
the game when I don't want to, even for just an unknown amount
of milliseconds, and even if I know that anyway
On Monday, 6 March 2017 at 05:50:01 UTC, Rico Decho wrote:
Actually it's my case. I'd LOVE to use D for game development
for instance, but I won't take the risk of having the GC pause
the game when I don't want to, even for just an unknown amount
of milliseconds, and even if I know that
It's actually rather rare to *need* to avoid the GC -- only
niche applications need that, like if you're writing a game
engine that has to avoid stop-the-world pauses (which can be
easily worked around, btw), or real-time medical applications
where if it stops for 10ms somebody dies. 90% of
On 03/05/2017 12:12 PM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Sat, 2017-03-04 at 09:29 +, Patrick Schluter via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
TL;DR
The big issue with IDE's is that they become part of the projects
themselves.
I thought this sort of crap had gone out with the naughties. Any
On Sat, 2017-03-04 at 19:36 +, Jon Degenhardt via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On Saturday, 4 March 2017 at 09:13:15 UTC, Seb wrote:
> > On Friday, 3 March 2017 at 19:18:31 UTC, jmh530 wrote:
> > > A Jupyter kernel would go a long way to students being able to
> > > easily play around with it in a
On Fri, 2017-03-03 at 09:33 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 07:12:07PM -0500, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa)
> via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > […]
> Ahh, the memories! (And how I am dating myself... but who
> cares.) Such
> fond memories of evenings spent poring over
On Sat, 2017-03-04 at 09:29 +, Patrick Schluter via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
>
[…]
> The thing that annoys me with IDE's is generally not the IDE
> itself, or even their heaviness. The main problem I encounter
> with them is that they often end up being tied with the project
> itself, which
On Sat, Mar 04, 2017 at 09:06:52AM +, Rico Decho via Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
> Unfortunately C++ developers generally have to use this language in
> cases where garbage collected languages like Java and C# wouldn't be
> used.
>
> So D's garbage collector may be a problem to convince most
On Saturday, 4 March 2017 at 09:13:15 UTC, Seb wrote:
On Friday, 3 March 2017 at 19:18:31 UTC, jmh530 wrote:
A Jupyter kernel would go a long way to students being able to
easily play around with it in a browser. There's already
dabble (D REPL) that one could make use of. I was surprised at
On Friday, 3 March 2017 at 18:45:50 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
(Abscissa) wrote:
On 03/03/2017 10:40 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
IDEs, vastly more supportive, useful software development
functionality
than editors, especially for debugging, yes.
It's that last one, the one about
On Friday, 3 March 2017 at 19:18:31 UTC, jmh530 wrote:
A Jupyter kernel would go a long way to students being able to
easily play around with it in a browser. There's already dabble
(D REPL) that one could make use of. I was surprised at the
breadth of the list of kernels available these days.
On Friday, 3 March 2017 at 19:49:06 UTC, Jared Jeffries wrote:
I think that the programming tutorial using D as the first
programming language is what is really need, and fortunately I
see that now it's on his way.
Ali Çehreli's book is really good in that regard. he explains
programming
That's a curious statement, because I was trained mainly as a
C/C++ programmer, and still use them for my job every day. I
was very well-versed in the intricacies of C, and somewhat C++,
yet I was very unhappy with them. For several years I would
scour the net during my free time to look for
On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 07:49:06PM +, Jared Jeffries via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> > Yeah. I am actually skeptical of the whole GUI koolaid. I'm pretty
> > sure having a GUI is not a necessity to implementing the equivalent
> > functionality of an IDE in a text-mode editor.
>
> Personally I'm
Yeah. I am actually skeptical of the whole GUI koolaid. I'm
pretty sure having a GUI is not a necessity to implementing the
equivalent functionality of an IDE in a text-mode editor.
Personally I'm using a mix of Geany, Coedit and Code::Blocks for
D development, depending on what I'm doing
On Thursday, 2 March 2017 at 15:32:26 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
I spend my days working with graduate students in economics
departments. They have to program for their research, but most
of them have never taken a programming class. I use RStudio
server. Students need only a browser to do fairly
On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 01:45:50PM -0500, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
> But I do really wish though, that the IDE devs would start
> prioritizing efficiency, UI snappiness, and startup time. Yea, those
> toold do more, but they don't do THAT much more that would
>
On 03/03/2017 12:33 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Call me a non-conformist or whatever, but every
time I see too much hype surrounding something, my kneejerk reaction is
to be skeptical of it. I eschew all bandwagons.
Yea, I'm the same way. Not even a deliberate thing really, just
On 03/03/2017 10:40 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
IDEs, vastly more supportive, useful software development functionality
than editors, especially for debugging, yes.
It's that last one, the one about getting working software developed
faster, that is the one that has moved me
On 03/03/2017 12:33 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Ahh, the memories!
(Please keep memories marked with [OT]. Thanks! -- Andrei)
On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 07:12:07PM -0500, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 03/02/2017 10:32 AM, bachmeier wrote:
> >
> > I too learned to program using BASIC sometime in the mid-80's. The
>
> Ditto here (well, late 80's). AppleSoft Basic on Apple IIc.
Ahh, the memories!
On Thu, 2017-03-02 at 15:02 -0500, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> […]
> I've used tools from JetBrains before. IMO, it should be easy for
> both
> vim and emacs to catch up to tools like JetBrains, Xamarin and such.
> All
> they need are a couple extensions to artificially
Slant does a pretty good job of providing a platform to these
opinionated questions.
https://www.slant.co/topics/25/viewpoints/11/~best-programming-language-to-learn-first~d
That's right.
Btw I've tested this simple "opinionated" search :
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 14:34:59 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
There's a reason stackoverflow and
softwareengineering.stackexchange delete these kinds of
questions: they're counter productive and can't actually be
answered.
Slant does a pretty good job of providing a platform to these
On 03/02/2017 10:32 AM, bachmeier wrote:
I too learned to program using BASIC sometime in the mid-80's. The
Ditto here (well, late 80's). AppleSoft Basic on Apple IIc.
"enterprise" side of things has created a completely unnecessary
learning curve. Java being used to teach intro to
On Thursday, 2 March 2017 at 15:32:26 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
On Thursday, 2 March 2017 at 11:10:54 UTC, Martin Tschierschke
wrote:
I started to learn programming (BASIC) with an traditional
home computer in the 80's
(Schneider/Amstrad CPC6128).
The best thing was, you only needed to switch it
On 03/02/2017 07:47 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
And what is the tooling and workflow? We are now living in the post-
VIM/post-Emacs era. If there isn't a JetBrain IDE or plugin to an IDE
for a language, you are in losing territory for big take up: without an
IDE (JetBrains is
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 13:53:17 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
Plenty of people do, particularly on reddit, StackOverflow,
Hacker News, and whatever forums & communities they tend to
hang out at (e.g. gamedev.net). If there's an absence of such
at Quora, it's just because none of the vocal D
Why not advertise? Because lagging deterministic memory
management, meaning nogc. And garbage collection
I'll probably be kicked for saying this. ^
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 08:12:05 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
(Abscissa) wrote:
What's quora?
(It's really hard to always keep on top of all the latest tread
sites/appz/whatever. It's all so fly-by-night.)
I've dissmissed Quora the first time I've seen it like 5 years
ago, but last year I've
On Thursday, 2 March 2017 at 11:10:54 UTC, Martin Tschierschke
wrote:
I started to learn programming (BASIC) with an traditional home
computer in the 80's
(Schneider/Amstrad CPC6128).
The best thing was, you only needed to switch it on and only
with typing "DRAW 640,400" a line was drawn from
On 03/03/2017 12:10 AM, Martin Tschierschke wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 18:34:22 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 17:09:51 UTC, Jared Jeffries wrote:
I think it should instead be advertised as the perfect language to
learn programming and web development, because
On Thu, 2017-03-02 at 12:29 +, Jared Jeffries via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> >
[…]
> IMHO, what really matters to a developer experimenting a new
> language are :
> - Is the new language easy to learn ? How long will it take me to
> become productive with it ?
> - Is it really worth the effort
We need a powerful message that resonates. I think performance
is the strongest message and it directly attacks people's major
and misplaced concern about D's garbage collector.
Indeed, D gives better performance than other similar garbage
collected languages like Java, C#, etc.
But I don't
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 18:37:46 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
(Abscissa) wrote:
On 03/01/2017 12:25 PM, Jack Stouffer wrote:
I agree. We have a lot to improve in terms of marketing.
Mainly our messaging is jumbled.
Rust = memory safety
Go = the best runtime around
D = everything I guess?
And
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 18:34:22 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 17:09:51 UTC, Jared Jeffries
wrote:
I think it should instead be advertised as the perfect
language to learn programming and web development, because
that's where it really shines, IMHO.
I agree, but
Thats the gab I'm trying to fill
https://github.com/aberba/learn-coding
GREAT INITIATIVE !!!
There's a reason stackoverflow and
softwareengineering.stackexchange delete these kinds of
questions: they're counter productive and can't actually be
answered.
The question "Which is the best programming language to learn
in 2017" is one such question. It comes down strictly to
opinion and
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 18:34:22 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 17:09:51 UTC, Jared Jeffries
wrote:
I think it should instead be advertised as the perfect
language to learn programming and web development, because
that's where it really shines, IMHO.
I agree, but
On 03/01/2017 12:25 PM, Jack Stouffer wrote:
I agree. We have a lot to improve in terms of marketing.
Mainly our messaging is jumbled.
Rust = memory safety
Go = the best runtime around
D = everything I guess?
And the problem is that D is good at everything (IMO), so how do we go
about
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 17:09:51 UTC, Jared Jeffries wrote:
I think it should instead be advertised as the perfect language
to learn programming and web development, because that's where
it really shines, IMHO.
I agree, but we need an intro to programming class using D as the
language
On 03/01/2017 08:35 AM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote:
However the forum does often answer some highly important and relevant
questions. My favorite so far was the "If I wanted to jump from an
airplane flying at 30,000 feet with nothing but bubble wrap for
protection, how much would I need?"
Since
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 17:25:07 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
I agree. We have a lot to improve in terms of marketing.
Mainly our messaging is jumbled.
Rust = memory safety
Go = the best runtime around
D = everything I guess?
And the problem is that D is good at everything (IMO), so how
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 17:09:51 UTC, Jared Jeffries wrote:
I'm not talking especially about Quora, even if I admit that
it's on this forum that somebody advised me to learn D to
improve my object oriented programming skills.
[...]
I think it should instead be advertised as the perfect
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 17:09:51 UTC, Jared Jeffries wrote:
I'm not talking especially about Quora, even if I admit that
it's on this forum that somebody advised me to learn D to
improve my object oriented programming skills.
I'm just saying that I think that D is de facto one of the
I'm not talking especially about Quora, even if I admit that it's
on this forum that somebody advised me to learn D to improve my
object oriented programming skills.
I'm just saying that I think that D is de facto one of the best
languages for beginners like me.
A lot better than most
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 at 23:29:24 UTC, Jared Jeffries
wrote:
I've read the answer to questions like "Which is the best
programming language to learn in 2017?".
Nobody was telling anything about D, which is really sad,
because in my opinion D could be one of the best answers to
this
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 10:20:45 UTC, Jared Jeffries wrote:
I suggest that D lovers answer as often as possible to these
kind of questions on these websites.
Plenty of people do, particularly on reddit, StackOverflow,
Hacker News, and whatever forums & communities they tend to hang
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 08:12:05 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
(Abscissa) wrote:
On 02/28/2017 06:29 PM, Jared Jeffries wrote:
What's quora?
(It's really hard to always keep on top of all the latest tread
sites/appz/whatever. It's all so fly-by-night.)
Quora is a general Q forum and hang-out
Here is a link to my answer :
https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-best-programming-language-to-learn-in-2017/answer/Jared-Jeffries-4?prompt_topic_bio=1
It's one of those forum websites where you ask a question,
experts give their advices and people vote for the best answer.
You can find them by searching "best programming language 2017"
in google for instance.
I suggest that D lovers answer as often as possible to these kind
of questions
On 02/28/2017 06:29 PM, Jared Jeffries wrote:
I've read the answer to questions like "Which is the best programming
language to learn in 2017?".
Nobody was telling anything about D, which is really sad, because in my
opinion D could be one of the best answers to this question.
I've answered
I've read the answer to questions like "Which is the best
programming language to learn in 2017?".
Nobody was telling anything about D, which is really sad, because
in my opinion D could be one of the best answers to this question.
I've answered this question. Better late than never.
I
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