Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Carlton Gibson]

Hey Andrew. 

Thanks to Jamesie and Asif for volunteering to help. 

Some general point, I'll make publicly, because they're general purpose: 

   - Due to Andrew's great work, the repos are in a good condition. Very 
   few open issues. The main task is to keep it that way: triaging the new 
   tickets, closing those we can. 
   - Let's use the labelling system Andrew already has in place. (No issues 
   if we don't do that perfectly, but lets try.) 
   - I don't think we can keep offering support in the repo. We need to 
   guide people to support channels. (A little hint is OK if you've got one 
   immediately.)
   - I'll set up protected branch rules, so all changes via PR (with 
   approvals) so we make sure we're on the same page, and can continue 
   Andrew's high standards. 
   - Let's not ping Andrew until we've explored all other possibilities. 
   Burnout/overwhelm is rubbish and self-care is the #1 priority. 

Thanks for all your work here Andrew. Have a breather. We'll try and keep 
it going. 🙂
(I'm sure there's other people here who can help us when we get stuck...) 

Kind Regards,

Carlton


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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Andrew Godwin]

OK, another update on the update (sorry, I am using the last of my energy
to arrange this handover, so I missed some things yesterday)

I'm going to hand over to a team of Carlton, Jamesie and Asif for now -
I'll get the docs on the repo sorted out tonight and make write up a few
more docs on how to run the release side of things.

I'll give Carlton admin access to the repo if he doesn't have it already,
and the two of you I'll grant commit access. Hopefully that should be
enough to give this a solid go. I'll leave notifications for @andrewgodwin
on, on github, for now, so if you really need me try that, but I may turn
that off if it turns out to be too much.

Thanks all who came forward. I'm hopeful that things can be kept going!

Andrew

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:18 PM Andrew Godwin  wrote:

> Just to update on this - nobody has individually come forward to help
> full-time, though I have seen Carlton help out on a few issues (thanks for
> that).
>
> I've added the PySlackers group into the support docs, as well - thanks
> for that offer.
>
> I'm still planning to remove myself from watching all the repos come Feb
> 1st, and barring positive confirmation someone else is going to actively
> take over I'll put up notices on all the projects that they are actively
> unmaintained apart from security issues.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:06 AM Andrew Godwin 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels
>> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for
>> help.
>>
>> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it
>> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and
>> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start
>> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>>
>> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to
>> put those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an
>> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the
>> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active
>> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still
>> maintained if they're not.
>>
>> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of
>> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>>
>> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain
>> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up
>> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to
>> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>>
>> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help
>> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly
>> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>>
>> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want
>> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me
>> personally to chat about what's involved.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Asif Saif Uddin]

Hi Andrew!! I would love to help as a co-maintainer of the projects related 
to django-channels. my github: auvipy

On Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 4:18:57 AM UTC+6, Andrew Godwin wrote:
>
> Just to update on this - nobody has individually come forward to help 
> full-time, though I have seen Carlton help out on a few issues (thanks for 
> that).
>
> I've added the PySlackers group into the support docs, as well - thanks 
> for that offer.
>
> I'm still planning to remove myself from watching all the repos come Feb 
> 1st, and barring positive confirmation someone else is going to actively 
> take over I'll put up notices on all the projects that they are actively 
> unmaintained apart from security issues.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:06 AM Andrew Godwin  > wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels 
>> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for 
>> help.
>>
>> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it 
>> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and 
>> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start 
>> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>>
>> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to 
>> put those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an 
>> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the 
>> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active 
>> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still 
>> maintained if they're not.
>>
>> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of 
>> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>>
>> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain 
>> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up 
>> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to 
>> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>>
>> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help 
>> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly 
>> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>>
>> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want 
>> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me 
>> personally to chat about what's involved.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Jamesie Pic]

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 3:19 PM Shrawan Poudel  wrote:
>
> Hello, i am interested in helping in this project. Please guide thought the 
> process for helping .
> I have been using these projects in many of my Production app .

Watch the repository on github, read the pull requests and ask
questions about submitted code where you feel that it could be
improved.

Look at the issues, try to reproduce them, submit a pull request with a fix.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 12:27 AM Andrew Godwin  wrote:
>
> Instead, I think Django should focus on a good async path for HTTP - views, 
> ORM, templates, and the like. This is what I want to get done if I can get my 
> time and energy back!

There's nothing I wouldn't do to see that happening !

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Andrew Godwin]

Just to update on this - nobody has individually come forward to help
full-time, though I have seen Carlton help out on a few issues (thanks for
that).

I've added the PySlackers group into the support docs, as well - thanks for
that offer.

I'm still planning to remove myself from watching all the repos come Feb
1st, and barring positive confirmation someone else is going to actively
take over I'll put up notices on all the projects that they are actively
unmaintained apart from security issues.

Andrew


On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:06 AM Andrew Godwin  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels
> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for
> help.
>
> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it
> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and
> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start
> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>
> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put
> those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an
> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the
> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active
> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still
> maintained if they're not.
>
> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of
> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>
> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain
> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up
> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to
> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>
> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help
> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly
> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>
> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want
> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me
> personally to chat about what's involved.
>
> Andrew
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Christian González]

Hi,

I'm no experienced developer nor a Django contributor, but I "suffered" 
from this theme too. What I tried in the past is to create a Django 
"application", or more a framework (https://pypi.org/project/gdaps/), to 
support "plugins" which consist of a backend (the django part), and an 
included frontend (which shoud contain a "plugin" of a Js-framework like 
Vue.js or Angular, etc) that "blends" in into the web client dynamically.


I have experimented with using templates serving Vue code, or separating 
the part that is served to the browser from the Django backend in a 
different directory, bypassing Django templates, and did not succeed much.


This all is not directly related to the theme here, but where it is 
connected, is that, for writing a modern application nowadays, you IMHO 
have to be responsive in the frontend, and I think that async calls are 
not smart enough to solve that.


If you ever tried the "easiness" of Meteor, you always envy that when 
using Django with templates.


So: If I had a wish to Santa Claus :-), I would really support Django 
having "Channels" (or however it may be named) included more deeply into 
the system: I think that the Templates approach is not the worst, 
because it is very flexible. It just doesn't have a solution to the 
communication problem between server and client. Again, if I could wish 
something, It would be Integration of frontend frameworks into the 
template language and having calls to e.g. DRF included INTO the 
template language, like the "batteries included" approach of Meteor with 
their "connected" variables that update automatically when another 
client changes them.


This all is possible with Django DRF, channels and a modern Js 
framework, but VERY much boilerplate code and hand-written updates, 
no-way modern.


I know it's much I demand here - I just want to add my 2cents - Django 
is GREAT software.


It's just that the frontend side (templates, auto-communication and data 
bindings) did not gain that much love as the backend.


Maybe you'll say "Hey, Django IS only a backend". Yes and no. If so, you 
can remove the templates completely. It's not a backend, it just 
focussed on the backend more than on the frontend.


If there would be a way to integrate channels more deeply into Django, 
together with frontend 2-way data bindings, push notifications etc., I 
would really appreciate it and could imagine supporting that using money 
too.


Cheers,

Christian


Am 22.01.19 um 15:18 schrieb John Obelenus:
Chiming in. As a long-time django user (nearly a decade), websockets 
is an area that the project on the whole is very, very, far behind the 
leading edge of the web industry. It's great, often desirable, to not 
be *on* the leading edge, but in my opinion, the project is too far 
behind it.


There are numerous projects where I would, now, not consider using 
django (or at least, using it only for the admin to save time/effort). 
That is the first issue that I see for the django project as a whole.


Secondly, and probably something Andrew expects to be helped (if not 
outright solved), is the general speed of serving requests. Async can 
absolutely help here (How much it helps is up for debate). As a 
developer who is using a lot more NodeJS now the inherent speed in 
that platform's request lifecycle can often be a game-changer in terms 
of performance and resources needed.


On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 2:57:18 PM UTC-5, Andrew Godwin wrote:



On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:34 AM Michael Martinez
> wrote:

Hi Andrew

To me, Websockets is the defining use case for using Django
Channels. From a user POV, saying that Channels is focused on
the wrong problem (websockets) is like saying Django is too
focused on HTTP.

When I have selected Channels (vs other tools), my rationale
was not:

"/I need a general purpose async platform and it would be
great if it worked with Websockets, ZeromQ and played nice
with Django.../" (therefore Django Channels vs Tornado vs ...)


rather my rationale is more like:

"/I need to build real time features with Websockets using
Django../" (therefore Django Channels).


Oh, I totally get that, and Channels does well at providing
WebSockets - the problem is that it's still an area with a lot
less interest and also one I personally have no use for at the
moment. Those things combined mean that WebSockets is not
something I'm really interested in supporting for free right now;
I'd have to be paid to work on it (as I was with the Mozilla grant
for a lot of Channels' development).

Andrew

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[John Obelenus]

Chiming in. As a long-time django user (nearly a decade), websockets is an 
area that the project on the whole is very, very, far behind the leading 
edge of the web industry. It's great, often desirable, to not be *on* the 
leading edge, but in my opinion, the project is too far behind it.

There are numerous projects where I would, now, not consider using django 
(or at least, using it only for the admin to save time/effort). That is the 
first issue that I see for the django project as a whole.

Secondly, and probably something Andrew expects to be helped (if not 
outright solved), is the general speed of serving requests. Async can 
absolutely help here (How much it helps is up for debate). As a developer 
who is using a lot more NodeJS now the inherent speed in that platform's 
request lifecycle can often be a game-changer in terms of performance and 
resources needed.

On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 2:57:18 PM UTC-5, Andrew Godwin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:34 AM Michael Martinez  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew
>>
>> To me, Websockets is the defining use case for using Django Channels. 
>> From a user POV, saying that Channels is focused on the wrong problem 
>> (websockets) is like saying Django is too focused on HTTP.
>>
>> When I have selected Channels (vs other tools), my rationale was not:
>>
>> "*I need a general purpose async platform and it would be great if it 
>> worked with Websockets, ZeromQ and played nice with Django...*" 
>> (therefore Django Channels vs Tornado vs ...)
>>
>>
>> rather my rationale is more like: 
>>
>> "*I need to build real time features with Websockets using Django..*" 
>> (therefore Django Channels).
>>
>>  
>>
>
> Oh, I totally get that, and Channels does well at providing WebSockets - 
> the problem is that it's still an area with a lot less interest and also 
> one I personally have no use for at the moment. Those things combined mean 
> that WebSockets is not something I'm really interested in supporting for 
> free right now; I'd have to be paid to work on it (as I was with the 
> Mozilla grant for a lot of Channels' development).
>
> Andrew 
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Andrew Godwin]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:34 AM Michael Martinez <
writemichaelmarti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrew
>
> To me, Websockets is the defining use case for using Django Channels. From
> a user POV, saying that Channels is focused on the wrong problem
> (websockets) is like saying Django is too focused on HTTP.
>
> When I have selected Channels (vs other tools), my rationale was not:
>
> "*I need a general purpose async platform and it would be great if it
> worked with Websockets, ZeromQ and played nice with Django...*"
> (therefore Django Channels vs Tornado vs ...)
>
>
> rather my rationale is more like:
>
> "*I need to build real time features with Websockets using Django..*"
> (therefore Django Channels).
>
>
>

Oh, I totally get that, and Channels does well at providing WebSockets -
the problem is that it's still an area with a lot less interest and also
one I personally have no use for at the moment. Those things combined mean
that WebSockets is not something I'm really interested in supporting for
free right now; I'd have to be paid to work on it (as I was with the
Mozilla grant for a lot of Channels' development).

Andrew

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Michael Martinez]

Hi Andrew

RE:
 

>  I feel, is that is solves the wrong problem - it's focused on WebSockets, 
> which is a niche feature that a few people are happy we provide but most 
> people have no practical use for.
>

To me, Websockets is the defining use case for using Django Channels. From 
a user POV, saying that Channels is focused on the wrong problem 
(websockets) is like saying Django is too focused on HTTP.

When I have selected Channels (vs other tools), my rationale was not:

"*I need a general purpose async platform and it would be great if it 
worked with Websockets, ZeromQ and played nice with Django...*" (therefore 
Django Channels vs Tornado vs ...)


rather my rationale is more like: 

"*I need to build real time features with Websockets using Django..*" 
(therefore Django Channels).

 


On Sunday, January 20, 2019 at 5:27:39 PM UTC-6, Andrew Godwin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 12:13 PM Carlton Gibson  > wrote:
>
>> Hey Andrew. 
>>
>> I've been thinking a lot about this. You clearly shouldn't be maintaining 
>> Channels single-handedly indefinitely. 
>>  
>> I know Channels started out separately, but, it's time to think about 
>> what, if anything of channels, is to be brought into core, or become THE 
>> WAY we do things or... Yes, we need more hands, but there's a bunch of 
>> people who can help out, and at least part of the problem is your out there 
>> in the wings by yourself (with not much visibility.) 
>>
>> Q: How does Channels fit into the "Django Async Roadmap"? 
>>
>> To the extent that it does, I think there's a case for asking the board 
>> and the DSF more widely to throw everything we've got behind making sure 
>> it's properly resourced. 
>>
>
> The main problem with Channels, I feel, is that is solves the wrong 
> problem - it's focused on WebSockets, which is a niche feature that a few 
> people are happy we provide but most people have no practical use for.
>
> Instead, I think Django should focus on a good async path for HTTP - 
> views, ORM, templates, and the like. This is what I want to get done if I 
> can get my time and energy back!
>
>
>> I presume you DON'T offer support on the issue tracker, and point people 
>> to other channels? I'd be happy to "straight-bat" obvious tickets away. 
>> (Michael's offer to recieve is valuable there.) 
>>
>
> I do try to do this - I wrote a standard page last year to help out with 
> batting away (https://channels.readthedocs.io/en/latest/support.html) - 
> but sometimes it's hard to triage the bug from the support request. Your 
> help there would be most appreciated, and yes, I should add Michael's offer 
> to that support page.
>  
>
>>
>> "...and weird WebSocket client bugs."
>>
>> Can I ask you to explain what you mean there? (Point to a ticket maybe.) 
>> What kind of query do you get? Is there a particular knack to working out 
>> if it's a valid bug or not? (Or is it apparent?)
>>
>
> I don't want to single anyone out, as it's not their fault, but bugs like 
> this: https://github.com/django/daphne/issues/244
>
> This person did the work and figured it out for the most part, but lots of 
> bugs that complex and confusing come in with just the first part of the 
> issue and I'm left wondering if it's their browser, their server, their 
> Python install or actually Channels.
>
> At some point, I wake up every morning to 5-6 emails from the various 
> projects and it overwhelms, as I'm sure you've encountered. Even the bugs 
> are nasty enough that I don't feel like fixing them once I've figured out 
> they're actually bugs.
>  
>
>>
>> Thanks for all you work here. Legend. 🙂 
>>
>
> And thank you for your response and help :)
>
> Andrew 
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Guilhem Saurel]

Hi Andrew,

Have you considered Jazzband (https://jazzband.co/) for this ?

Guilhem.

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2019 19:07:06 UTC+1, Andrew Godwin a écrit :
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels 
> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for 
> help.
>
> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it 
> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and 
> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start 
> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>
> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put 
> those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an 
> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the 
> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active 
> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still 
> maintained if they're not.
>
> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of 
> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>
> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain 
> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up 
> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to 
> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>
> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help 
> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly 
> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>
> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want 
> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me 
> personally to chat about what's involved.
>
> Andrew
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Andrew Godwin]

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 12:13 PM Carlton Gibson 
wrote:

> Hey Andrew.
>
> I've been thinking a lot about this. You clearly shouldn't be maintaining
> Channels single-handedly indefinitely.
>
> I know Channels started out separately, but, it's time to think about
> what, if anything of channels, is to be brought into core, or become THE
> WAY we do things or... Yes, we need more hands, but there's a bunch of
> people who can help out, and at least part of the problem is your out there
> in the wings by yourself (with not much visibility.)
>
> Q: How does Channels fit into the "Django Async Roadmap"?
>
> To the extent that it does, I think there's a case for asking the board
> and the DSF more widely to throw everything we've got behind making sure
> it's properly resourced.
>

The main problem with Channels, I feel, is that is solves the wrong problem
- it's focused on WebSockets, which is a niche feature that a few people
are happy we provide but most people have no practical use for.

Instead, I think Django should focus on a good async path for HTTP - views,
ORM, templates, and the like. This is what I want to get done if I can get
my time and energy back!


> I presume you DON'T offer support on the issue tracker, and point people
> to other channels? I'd be happy to "straight-bat" obvious tickets away.
> (Michael's offer to recieve is valuable there.)
>

I do try to do this - I wrote a standard page last year to help out with
batting away (https://channels.readthedocs.io/en/latest/support.html) - but
sometimes it's hard to triage the bug from the support request. Your help
there would be most appreciated, and yes, I should add Michael's offer to
that support page.


>
> "...and weird WebSocket client bugs."
>
> Can I ask you to explain what you mean there? (Point to a ticket maybe.)
> What kind of query do you get? Is there a particular knack to working out
> if it's a valid bug or not? (Or is it apparent?)
>

I don't want to single anyone out, as it's not their fault, but bugs like
this: https://github.com/django/daphne/issues/244

This person did the work and figured it out for the most part, but lots of
bugs that complex and confusing come in with just the first part of the
issue and I'm left wondering if it's their browser, their server, their
Python install or actually Channels.

At some point, I wake up every morning to 5-6 emails from the various
projects and it overwhelms, as I'm sure you've encountered. Even the bugs
are nasty enough that I don't feel like fixing them once I've figured out
they're actually bugs.


>
> Thanks for all you work here. Legend. 🙂
>

And thank you for your response and help :)

Andrew

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Shrawan Poudel]

Hello, i am interested in helping in this project. Please guide thought the
process for helping .
I have been using these projects in many of my Production app .



On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 1:58 AM Carlton Gibson 
wrote:

> Hey Andrew.
>
> I've been thinking a lot about this. You clearly shouldn't be maintaining
> Channels single-handedly indefinitely.
>
> On Thursday, 17 January 2019 19:07:06 UTC+1, Andrew Godwin wrote:
>>
>> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to
>> put those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an
>> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the
>> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active
>> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still
>> maintained if they're not.
>>
>> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of
>> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>>
>
> I know Channels started out separately, but, it's time to think about
> what, if anything of channels, is to be brought into core, or become THE
> WAY we do things or... Yes, we need more hands, but there's a bunch of
> people who can help out, and at least part of the problem is your out there
> in the wings by yourself (with not much visibility.)
>
> Q: How does Channels fit into the "Django Async Roadmap"?
>
> To the extent that it does, I think there's a case for asking the board
> and the DSF more widely to throw everything we've got behind making sure
> it's properly resourced.
>
> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help
>> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly
>> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>>
>
> I presume you DON'T offer support on the issue tracker, and point people
> to other channels? I'd be happy to "straight-bat" obvious tickets away.
> (Michael's offer to recieve is valuable there.)
>
> "...and weird WebSocket client bugs."
>
> Can I ask you to explain what you mean there? (Point to a ticket maybe.)
> What kind of query do you get? Is there a particular knack to working out
> if it's a valid bug or not? (Or is it apparent?)
>
> Thanks for all you work here. Legend. 🙂
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Carlton
>
> --
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/68626427-d97d-4053-8836-5382483f63af%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Carlton Gibson]

Hey Andrew. 

I've been thinking a lot about this. You clearly shouldn't be maintaining 
Channels single-handedly indefinitely. 

On Thursday, 17 January 2019 19:07:06 UTC+1, Andrew Godwin wrote:
>
> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put 
> those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an 
> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the 
> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active 
> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still 
> maintained if they're not.
>
> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of 
> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>
 
I know Channels started out separately, but, it's time to think about what, 
if anything of channels, is to be brought into core, or become THE WAY we 
do things or... Yes, we need more hands, but there's a bunch of people who 
can help out, and at least part of the problem is your out there in the 
wings by yourself (with not much visibility.) 

Q: How does Channels fit into the "Django Async Roadmap"? 

To the extent that it does, I think there's a case for asking the board and 
the DSF more widely to throw everything we've got behind making sure it's 
properly resourced. 

Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help 
> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly 
> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>

I presume you DON'T offer support on the issue tracker, and point people to 
other channels? I'd be happy to "straight-bat" obvious tickets away. 
(Michael's offer to recieve is valuable there.) 

"...and weird WebSocket client bugs."

Can I ask you to explain what you mean there? (Point to a ticket maybe.) 
What kind of query do you get? Is there a particular knack to working out 
if it's a valid bug or not? (Or is it apparent?)

Thanks for all you work here. Legend. 🙂 

Kind Regards,

Carlton

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Dipankar]

Hi, I am also interested to contribute on this topic. Please guide.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 11:37 PM Andrew Godwin  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels
> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for
> help.
>
> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it
> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and
> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start
> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>
> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put
> those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an
> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the
> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active
> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still
> maintained if they're not.
>
> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of
> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>
> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain
> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up
> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to
> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>
> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help
> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly
> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>
> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want
> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me
> personally to chat about what's involved.
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
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> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
Warm Regards,
Dipankar B.

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Michael Martinez]

Hi Andrew, 

We have a pretty active Django channel in our Slack group if you would like 
to direct all support requests there in the meantime. Many of us including 
myself are using Django Channels in production can help with basic support 
questions.

Take care of yourself and thanks for everything you've already done!

https://pyslackers.com/


On Thursday, January 17, 2019 at 12:07:06 PM UTC-6, Andrew Godwin wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels 
> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for 
> help.
>
> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it 
> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and 
> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start 
> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>
> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put 
> those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an 
> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the 
> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active 
> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still 
> maintained if they're not.
>
> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of 
> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>
> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain 
> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up 
> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to 
> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>
> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help 
> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly 
> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>
> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want 
> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me 
> personally to chat about what's involved.
>
> Andrew
>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[sibasish mohanty]

Hi ,
I also can help in maintaining the projects.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019, 11:40 p.m. Nasir Hussain  Hi andrew, I can help in maintaining the projects. Kindly let me know what
> are the next steps.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 11:07 PM Andrew Godwin 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels
>> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for
>> help.
>>
>> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it
>> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and
>> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start
>> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>>
>> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to
>> put those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an
>> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the
>> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active
>> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still
>> maintained if they're not.
>>
>> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of
>> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>>
>> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain
>> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up
>> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to
>> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>>
>> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help
>> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly
>> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>>
>> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want
>> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me
>> personally to chat about what's involved.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAFwN1uonedcUeLz8zD%2BK5Ma82gLyAX8g0s58HeT%3Dq-dMgcLxfw%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
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> 
> .
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>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Andrew Godwin]

Hi Nasir,

I'm looking for help from people with a strong history of open source
maintenance and Django/Python/async contributions, since I can't really
guide people through it and I need to be able to trust those who I give
access to. If you think you meet that, email me personally and I'll outline
what's needed.

Andrew

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:10 AM Nasir Hussain 
wrote:

> Hi andrew, I can help in maintaining the projects. Kindly let me know what
> are the next steps.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 11:07 PM Andrew Godwin 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels
>> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for
>> help.
>>
>> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it
>> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and
>> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start
>> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>>
>> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to
>> put those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an
>> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the
>> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active
>> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still
>> maintained if they're not.
>>
>> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of
>> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>>
>> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain
>> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up
>> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to
>> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>>
>> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help
>> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly
>> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>>
>> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want
>> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me
>> personally to chat about what's involved.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAFwN1uonedcUeLz8zD%2BK5Ma82gLyAX8g0s58HeT%3Dq-dMgcLxfw%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
> --
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> 
> .
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>

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Re: Potential suspension of Channels development

[Nasir Hussain]

Hi andrew, I can help in maintaining the projects. Kindly let me know what
are the next steps.

Thanks

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 11:07 PM Andrew Godwin  Hi all,
>
> I'm writing to you all to update you on the current situation of Channels
> and related libraries (channels-redis and Daphne) and potentially ask for
> help.
>
> I've been the sole maintainer of these projects for quite a while and it
> has become unsustainable - all of my energy is taken up fielding issues and
> support requests and I haven't been able to even get myself to start
> looking at Django async stuff because of it.
>
> Given that, if nobody else can step forward to take over, I'll have to put
> those three projects (Channels, channels-redis, and Daphne) into an
> explicit maintenance mode where they only accept security requests via the
> normal security@ route, and start the process of retiring them as active
> Django projects, as I don't want to give the impression they're still
> maintained if they're not.
>
> (note: the asgiref project is still fine and should probably move out of
> Django to its own effort at some point giving the growing set of ASGI tools)
>
> If people are willing to take over maintenance, I'm happy to help explain
> some things but I don't have the bandwidth to bring someone completely up
> from scratch, so I can't help mentor someone who is totally new to
> maintaining open-source Python (sorry!).
>
> Once I recover a bit from the burnout I'll be able to come back and help
> with the really complex bugs; the main thing I need out of is the seemingly
> endless support requests and weird WebSocket client bugs.
>
> My personal deadline for this is two weeks, on February 1st. If you want
> to help out, please feel free to reply either here or get in touch with me
> personally to chat about what's involved.
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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