Re: Trac components cleanup

[Julien Phalip]

On Mar 29, 4:47 pm, Gabriel Hurley  wrote:
> The component re-organization is done now, as per Julien's (and Jannis')
> suggestions above. I even re-categorized the 84 tickets that were in
> "Contrib apps" into their new separate contrib.foo components (thank god for
> Trac bulk modify privileges!).
>
> The organization definitely makes more sense now, though I fear the list has
> actually grown longer (due to all the contrib apps that were lumped together
> before). If anything, that should be a reminder that some of those apps are
> rather stale these days, but that's a conversation for another day. ;-)
>
> If you find any problems feel free to let me know.
>
> All the best,
>
>     - Gabriel

Wow, fantastic! We owe you a few cold beers :D

Julien

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Gabriel Hurley]

The component re-organization is done now, as per Julien's (and Jannis') 
suggestions above. I even re-categorized the 84 tickets that were in 
"Contrib apps" into their new separate contrib.foo components (thank god for 
Trac bulk modify privileges!).

The organization definitely makes more sense now, though I fear the list has 
actually grown longer (due to all the contrib apps that were lumped together 
before). If anything, that should be a reminder that some of those apps are 
rather stale these days, but that's a conversation for another day. ;-)

If you find any problems feel free to let me know.

All the best,

- Gabriel

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Julien Phalip]

On Mar 29, 8:58 am, Gabriel Hurley  wrote:
> I can work on it late tonight (about 6-8 hours from now) if no one else gets
> to it.
>
> All the best,
>
>     - Gabriel

Excellent, thank you Gabriel! There's no rush -- whenever it suits
you. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Julien

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Gabriel Hurley]

I can work on it late tonight (about 6-8 hours from now) if no one else gets 
to it.

All the best,

- Gabriel

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Julien Phalip  wrote:
> I wouldn't mind trying but I don't have much experience administering
> Trac and I wouldn't want to make a mess. Earlier in this thread
> Gabriel has offered to help as he's got the Trac skillz.
>
> Gabriel, are you around? :-)

Sweet. I'll leave it up to the two of you, then.

Jacob

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Julien Phalip]

On Mar 29, 2:01 am, Jacob Kaplan-Moss  wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Julien Phalip  wrote:
> > Now that 1.3 has been released (yay!), I'm reviving this thread to see
> > if we can make Trac a little more efficient on our way to 1.4. I'll
> > try to summarise what's been suggested so far in regard to improving
> > and clarifying the "Component" field:
>
> Agree with everyone else -- this makes perfect sense. Do you have the
> relevant bits in Trac to make these changes yourself? If so feel free
> to do so; otherwise ping me and I'll give you the perms.

I wouldn't mind trying but I don't have much experience administering
Trac and I wouldn't want to make a mess. Earlier in this thread
Gabriel has offered to help as he's got the Trac skillz.

Gabriel, are you around? :-)

Julien

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Julien Phalip  wrote:
> Now that 1.3 has been released (yay!), I'm reviving this thread to see
> if we can make Trac a little more efficient on our way to 1.4. I'll
> try to summarise what's been suggested so far in regard to improving
> and clarifying the "Component" field:

Agree with everyone else -- this makes perfect sense. Do you have the
relevant bits in Trac to make these changes yourself? If so feel free
to do so; otherwise ping me and I'll give you the perms.

Jacob

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Jannis Leidel]

On 28.03.2011, at 07:56, Julien Phalip wrote:

> Now that 1.3 has been released (yay!), I'm reviving this thread to see
> if we can make Trac a little more efficient on our way to 1.4. I'll
> try to summarise what's been suggested so far in regard to improving
> and clarifying the "Component" field:
> 
> * The "Contrib apps" component would be made redundant and new
> components for each missing contrib app (e.g. contenttypes, sitemaps)
> would be added. Also, for readability's sake, "django.contrib.foo"
> would be renamed to simply "contrib.foo".
> 
> * For consistency, the "Authentication" component would be renamed to
> "contrib.auth", and "RSS framework" to "contrib.syndication".
> 
> * Consolidate "django-admin.py", "django-admin.py inspectdb" and
> "django-admin.py runserver" into one component (called "Management
> commands" perhaps?).

Why not "Core (Management commands)"?

> * Rename "Django Web site" to "Djangoproject.com Web site"
> 
> * Lastly, potentially the most controversial change: for clarity's
> sake, rename "Core framework" to "Core (Other)", "Cache system" to
> "Core (Cache system)", "django.core.mail" to "Core (Mail)", and
> "Serialization" to "Core (Serialization)".
> 
> Let me know if any of that is total yak shaving or if it's worth
> implementing. By the way, the reason why I care about this
> specifically is because I think that by making the component data more
> accurate and consistent, we'll drive in more useful contribution from
> people who feel they are expert or simply interested in specific areas
> of the codebase.

Definitely worth it, even if it's not possible to do this in a backwards 
compatible way (broken links to Trac ticket queries).

Jannis

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Carl Meyer]

On 03/28/2011 02:33 AM, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
> As with the other thread on Trac changes -- I agree this is worth
> doing, but would like to hear some other core dev voices before making
> any changes.

These changes look to me like a gain in sanity on every front. +1

Carl

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Julien Phalip  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Now that 1.3 has been released (yay!), I'm reviving this thread to see
> if we can make Trac a little more efficient on our way to 1.4. I'll
> try to summarise what's been suggested so far in regard to improving
> and clarifying the "Component" field:
>
> * The "Contrib apps" component would be made redundant and new
> components for each missing contrib app (e.g. contenttypes, sitemaps)
> would be added. Also, for readability's sake, "django.contrib.foo"
> would be renamed to simply "contrib.foo".
>
> * For consistency, the "Authentication" component would be renamed to
> "contrib.auth", and "RSS framework" to "contrib.syndication".
>
> * Consolidate "django-admin.py", "django-admin.py inspectdb" and
> "django-admin.py runserver" into one component (called "Management
> commands" perhaps?).
>
> * Rename "Django Web site" to "Djangoproject.com Web site"
>
> * Lastly, potentially the most controversial change: for clarity's
> sake, rename "Core framework" to "Core (Other)", "Cache system" to
> "Core (Cache system)", "django.core.mail" to "Core (Mail)", and
> "Serialization" to "Core (Serialization)".
>
> Let me know if any of that is total yak shaving or if it's worth
> implementing. By the way, the reason why I care about this
> specifically is because I think that by making the component data more
> accurate and consistent, we'll drive in more useful contribution from
> people who feel they are expert or simply interested in specific areas
> of the codebase.

As with the other thread on Trac changes -- I agree this is worth
doing, but would like to hear some other core dev voices before making
any changes.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Julien Phalip]

Hi all,

Now that 1.3 has been released (yay!), I'm reviving this thread to see
if we can make Trac a little more efficient on our way to 1.4. I'll
try to summarise what's been suggested so far in regard to improving
and clarifying the "Component" field:

* The "Contrib apps" component would be made redundant and new
components for each missing contrib app (e.g. contenttypes, sitemaps)
would be added. Also, for readability's sake, "django.contrib.foo"
would be renamed to simply "contrib.foo".

* For consistency, the "Authentication" component would be renamed to
"contrib.auth", and "RSS framework" to "contrib.syndication".

* Consolidate "django-admin.py", "django-admin.py inspectdb" and
"django-admin.py runserver" into one component (called "Management
commands" perhaps?).

* Rename "Django Web site" to "Djangoproject.com Web site"

* Lastly, potentially the most controversial change: for clarity's
sake, rename "Core framework" to "Core (Other)", "Cache system" to
"Core (Cache system)", "django.core.mail" to "Core (Mail)", and
"Serialization" to "Core (Serialization)".

Let me know if any of that is total yak shaving or if it's worth
implementing. By the way, the reason why I care about this
specifically is because I think that by making the component data more
accurate and consistent, we'll drive in more useful contribution from
people who feel they are expert or simply interested in specific areas
of the codebase.

Many thanks!

Julien

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Gabriel Hurley]

I'm not endorsing any specific set of changes here, but I can address the 
feasibility of making the changes in Trac:

>From empirical testing on my own Trac installation (running 0.11 currently, 
Django is on 0.12) updates to components, resolutions, etc. all propagate 
correctly when edited through the admin. Whether that's because Trac's 
backend is using foreignkeys (as one might hope), or whether it's simply 
wired up with the right hooks to update the database fields when the values 
are edited I don't know. But either way, it works as you'd expect.

So, whatever changes we decide to make, they shouldn't be hard to implement.

- Gabriel

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Julien Phalip]

On Feb 28, 10:58 am, Paul McMillan  wrote:
> I think the django-admin.py categories could be consolidated into a single 
> one.
>
> In the interest of readability, we might rename django.contrib.foo to
> simply contrib.foo.
>
> As long as we're clarifying, "Django Web Site" might be better named
> "DjangoProject Web Site".

Yes I totally agree with those points. Perhaps "django-admin.py"
should also be renamed "Django built-in commands", and add ".com" in
"DjangoProject.com Web Site".

I'm not a Trac expert, but it feels as though the component values are
stored as full strings. So if changes are made it's likely we'll have
to run SQL queries to bulk-update the corresponding database entries.

Julien

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Paul McMillan]

>> * The "Contrib apps" component [1] should be made redundant and new
>> components for each missing contrib app (e.g. contenttypes, sitemaps)
>> should be added. I mean, even databrowse has its own component! :) The
>> "Contrib app" mixes lots of unrelated things, making it a bit
>> pointless.
>> * For consistency, the "Authentication" component should be renamed to
>> django.contrib.auth, and "RSS framework" to
>> django.contrib.syndication.

I'm also +1 on those two.

> However, "core" is clearly being misused (or at least misunderstood).
> I'm open to suggestions (driven by the data) as to what extra
> categories we should add and/or how we should rename core. There are
> 169 open tickets attributed to "core" -- care to make some
> suggestions?

Core tends to end up as a dumping ground for people who haven't
carefully read the (admittedly already long) list of categories. It's
near the top, and so it's easy to choose over other more appropriate
categories. Consolidating some of the redundant categories might help.

I think the django-admin.py categories could be consolidated into a single one.

In the interest of readability, we might rename django.contrib.foo to
simply contrib.foo.

As long as we're clarifying, "Django Web Site" might be better named
"DjangoProject Web Site".

Those later two probably aren't worth doing unless Trac provides an
easy rename functionality.

-Paul

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Re: Trac components cleanup

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Julien Phalip  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Tweaking Trac seems to be in the air, so I had some more ideas to
> suggest :)
>
> The "component" field in Trac is very useful when people look for
> tickets in their areas of familiarity/expertise. I think there are a
> few things that should be cleaned up to make the system a bit more
> useful and effective:
>
> * The "Contrib apps" component [1] should be made redundant and new
> components for each missing contrib app (e.g. contenttypes, sitemaps)
> should be added. I mean, even databrowse has its own component! :) The
> "Contrib app" mixes lots of unrelated things, making it a bit
> pointless.
> * For consistency, the "Authentication" component should be renamed to
> django.contrib.auth, and "RSS framework" to
> django.contrib.syndication.

Definitely agreed on these two.

My only concern would be implementation -- can we change the name of
the component, or do we need to go through a "create new name,
reassign existing, delete old" dance.

This is something that anyone with admin rights in Trac (including
myself) can do, once we've got a few +1 votes confirmed.

> * Clarify what the "Core framework" component [2] means, as it ends up
> being used for a lot of irrelevant things (for example, I've just
> cleaned out a lot of ORM-related tickets). Note that django.core.mail
> has its own component, but there are so many things that could be
> considered as part of the core framework that it might be difficult
> and counter-productive to split it in a gazillion components (as
> opposed to the number of contrib apps which is reasonably small and
> will never grow). At the very least, the name "Core framework" should
> be disambiguated if possible.

In defence of the status quo -- "mail" is a clearly isolated set of
APIs in a single module, but this isn't true of other "core" parts of
Django. I think this makes a good

However, "core" is clearly being misused (or at least misunderstood).
I'm open to suggestions (driven by the data) as to what extra
categories we should add and/or how we should rename core. There are
169 open tickets attributed to "core" -- care to make some
suggestions?

> * Merge the "User experience" component [3] with django.contrib.admin
> since it contains very few tickets and the vast majority of user
> experience related tickets will likely always be related to the admin
> anyway.

This differentiation was intentional (at least, it was at the time).
The idea of the "UX category" was to provide a list of
designer-focussed work -- ie., things where you didn't necessarily
need to be a programmer in order to make a contribution. Of course,
this ignores the contribution that designers can make in a design as
"how things work" vs "how things look" sense.

However, I think it's worth keeping this differentiation; it may be a
weak differentiator, but I think it's work keeping the distinction
between tasks that are known to be primarily Python, and tasks known
to be primarily CSS/JS.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

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Trac components cleanup

[Julien Phalip]

Hi,

Tweaking Trac seems to be in the air, so I had some more ideas to
suggest :)

The "component" field in Trac is very useful when people look for
tickets in their areas of familiarity/expertise. I think there are a
few things that should be cleaned up to make the system a bit more
useful and effective:

* The "Contrib apps" component [1] should be made redundant and new
components for each missing contrib app (e.g. contenttypes, sitemaps)
should be added. I mean, even databrowse has its own component! :) The
"Contrib app" mixes lots of unrelated things, making it a bit
pointless.
* For consistency, the "Authentication" component should be renamed to
django.contrib.auth, and "RSS framework" to
django.contrib.syndication.
* Clarify what the "Core framework" component [2] means, as it ends up
being used for a lot of irrelevant things (for example, I've just
cleaned out a lot of ORM-related tickets). Note that django.core.mail
has its own component, but there are so many things that could be
considered as part of the core framework that it might be difficult
and counter-productive to split it in a gazillion components (as
opposed to the number of contrib apps which is reasonably small and
will never grow). At the very least, the name "Core framework" should
be disambiguated if possible.
* Merge the "User experience" component [3] with django.contrib.admin
since it contains very few tickets and the vast majority of user
experience related tickets will likely always be related to the admin
anyway.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Julien

[1] Contrib apps component:
http://code.djangoproject.com/query?status=assigned=new=reopened=Contrib+apps=id=summary=component=status=milestone=version=priority
[2] Core framework component:
http://code.djangoproject.com/query?status=assigned=new=reopened=Core+framework=id=summary=component=status=milestone=version=priority
[3] User experience component:
http://code.djangoproject.com/query?status=assigned=closed=new=reopened=User+Experience=id=summary=component=status=milestone=version=priority

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