Re: [DNG] donating a host

[Alessandro Selli]

On 12/08/2017 at 21:08, John Franklin wrote:
> I may have an old (non-Ultra) SPARC machine in storage somewhere, or possible 
> an even older 68000-based SUN system.  If a PPC-based Macintosh would be 
> useful, I have some old boxes.  Most of these machines are in the Raleigh, NC 
> area, some are in the Washington, DC area.  I’m happy to donate any or all of 
> them.

  I think they'd be more welcome in an IT-history museum, rather than to power 
a XXI century porting project.


   I have a Blade-2000 machine, 2x1.2 GHz Ultrasparc III processors, available, 
if someone is thinking about a Devuan porting to such an architecture.  But I 
think Ultrasparc III too are a bit too old to spend the time required to port a 
modern GNU/Linux distribution on it.



  Greetings,

-- 
Alessandro Selli 
Tel. 3701355486
VOIP SIP: dhatarat...@ekiga.net
Chiave PGP/GPG key: B7FD89FD

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Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Evilham]

Thank you for posting it here Michael :).

Am 12/08/2017 um 18:52 schrieb Michael Siegel:
> There is a pretty big (2500-3000 visitors) Linux/FOSS event taking place
> in Chemnitz (Germany) in March. It's called Chemnitzer Linux Tage
> (Chemnitz Linux Days) and has been held annually since 1999. The
> project's website can be found at
> 
>   https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de.

Also, this has a bit of a reputation in the "geek circles" in Germany.

> I think it would be great if Devuan presented itself there.
> 
> There are two possible ways of doing that:
> 
> * Giving a talk of about 30 to 45 minutes and answering questions from
> the audience for another 30 or 15 minutes respectively
> 
> * Having a booth in the exhibition area of the building where people can
> come by, inform themselves, ask questions, obtain installation media and
> such
> 
> I think it should be possible to have both if available manpower allows
> for that.

Maybe both is not quite necessary, you know how that goes, people come
to you afterwards if they are interested. OTOH: if enough people end up
volunteering, sure why not.

> It would be best if a possible talk could be given in German language,
> though that's not mandatory. The call for lectures will presumably be
> out in mid-October. The website also has some notes for speakers
> (https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/programm/hinweise) as well as
> for exhibitors
> (https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/programm/hinweise) that should
> be considered.
> 
> So, if anyone's interested, I'd be quite happy. I could help organizing
> things.

I'm actually interested here to see what our Elder Developers have to
say. Maybe one of them can make it, that'd be a hit.

As mentioned on IRC, I'm quite near and could lend a hand; my German is
not perfect, but it's alright (as long as I don't have to understand
extremely thick Chemnitzer accents :)).

Let's see how much interest this gathers and what can be done from that,
did you have any particular topic in mind?
-- 
Evilham
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Re: [DNG] [devuan-dev] Status of releasebot and updates to www.devuan.org

[Alessandro Selli]

Il 12/08/2017 20:04, Jaromil ha scritto:
> apologies, this mail was meant to the -dev list, which is still
> public, so sincere apologies for cross-posting, it really wasn't
> meant.

  It was a good reading, though! :-)


  Greetings,

-- 
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Tel. 3701355486
VOIP SIP: dhatarat...@ekiga.net
Chiave PGP/GPG key: B7FD89FD

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Re: [DNG] donating a host

[Evilham]

Am 12/08/2017 um 20:45 schrieb info at smallinnovations dot nl:
> So is the intention to migrate dev1galaxy.org to this machines? Or
> something like that? Then i am in!

Already happened a few days ago ;) good to see it went unnoticed!
(means it went smoothly)

Here a small announcement about that:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1532
-- 
Evilham
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Re: [DNG] donating a host

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 12.08.2017 20:45, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote:

I suppose 1&1 is some VPS provider? 


It's on of the largest hosting provider in Germany (probably whole
Europe).

I've got some physical machines there.

I like to get my hands dirty, but 
for something usefull. So is the intention to migrate dev1galaxy.org to 
this machines? Or something like that? Then i am in!


Yes, for example. Or things like build bots.

I'd like to put all these things into containers, so it can be cloned /
moved easily.


--mtx
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Re: [DNG] donating a host

[info at smallinnovations dot nl]

On 12-08-17 20:16, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote:

On 12.08.2017 17:11, lfs.mail...@leloft.co.uk wrote:

Hi,



Not quite sure what you need, but i've got a couple of i5s that i'm
using as backup and are woefully under-employed, so i'd be happy to see
them work for their living.  I'd need to open the ports
for you on the router and on the machines themselves, so we'd have to
work those bits out.


I've still got some idling machines @1+1, which need to be reinstalled.
Planned to use them for build machines, mta, httpd, etc. Just lacking
the time to take care about them.

If anybody here likes to get his hands dirty and reinstall them
(perhaps proxmox cluster or docker host), just let me know.

--mtx
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I suppose 1&1 is some VPS provider? I like to get my hands dirty, but 
for something usefull. So is the intention to migrate dev1galaxy.org to 
this machines? Or something like that? Then i am in!


Grtz

Nick

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Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 12.08.2017 18:52, Michael Siegel wrote:

There is a pretty big (2500-3000 visitors) Linux/FOSS event taking place
in Chemnitz (Germany) in March. It's called Chemnitzer Linux Tage
(Chemnitz Linux Days) and has been held annually since 1999. The
project's website can be found at

https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de.

The "About Us" page is at

https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/info/about

I think it would be great if Devuan presented itself there.


Good idea.

I've planned to go there for many years, but always missed it :(

By the way: some more people from central germany here ?


--mtx
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Re: [DNG] donating a host

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 12.08.2017 17:11, lfs.mail...@leloft.co.uk wrote:

Hi,



Not quite sure what you need, but i've got a couple of i5s that i'm
using as backup and are woefully under-employed, so i'd be happy to see
them work for their living.  I'd need to open the ports
for you on the router and on the machines themselves, so we'd have to
work those bits out.


I've still got some idling machines @1+1, which need to be reinstalled.
Planned to use them for build machines, mta, httpd, etc. Just lacking
the time to take care about them.

If anybody here likes to get his hands dirty and reinstall them
(perhaps proxmox cluster or docker host), just let me know.

--mtx
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Re: [DNG] [devuan-dev] Status of releasebot and updates to www.devuan.org

[Jaromil]

apologies, this mail was meant to the -dev list, which is still
public, so sincere apologies for cross-posting, it really wasn't
meant.


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Re: [DNG] [devuan-dev] Status of releasebot and updates to www.devuan.org

[Jaromil]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017, Evilham wrote:

> Please, let's everyone stick to what concerns us.

thanks for your reasoning. Here is what concerns me in brief:

0- We need to welcome more qualified developers to the project.
   I number it zero since I believe we all agree with this.

1- All developers must be treated equally. the fact me and Nextime
   have initiated the Devuan project, or Daniel is an elder and by all
   means a very important contributor, still does not mean we can miss
   deadlines, shabbily liquidate contributions or miss to maintain
   promises and agreements to the other developers. Noone can be
   exempt from any responsibility taken, no matter how important that
   person is to the project. This is not an attack to Nextime! because
   I admit I'm also behind some tasks and that just confirms point 0
   and I'm keen to pass them on to people who demonstrate the good
   will and love and expertise in doing them.

2- Development is a process and, as you pointed out, must happen as an
   OPEN process. Commits to a codebase must be properly commented and
   reviews must happen already during the development flow, to avoid
   enormous amounts of time wasted rewriting things and to allow
   experts to feed into specific parts of the projects. The quality of
   code cannot be a patchwork between releases.


3- While we do have time and possibility to grow, we must aim for TOP
   quality.  It is our task and that of all others engaging the
   project to RAISE its quality standards. Out of the huge amount of
   work we managed to do in the past year, now we must step out of
   emergency mode and take care to do things properly. Being a leader
   in Devuan means MORE work, not less, plus also means embodying what
   all Devuan developers SHOULD do.


Frankly this is my agenda and it is not just on top of the
scorsh/releasebot diatribe and it is not just about others developers,
but also myself, because I cannot be excellent enough alone nor with
other 2 excellent people like Daniel and Nextime, nor with us all on
this list. We must have a transparent process in place to recognise
and agree on excellence of cotnributions, not proceed by patchwork.

Also if I'm aloud to have a 4- and 5- concern then I'd share that of
most people commenting on Jessie release that it has taken too long
and those of parazyd and others that many important packages in Devuan
do not have yet a maintainer and also on Jessie we are behind updates
on a number of important packages.

Next I'll start to comment on your document, but also I have heavy
time constraints and need some breaks for peace of mind from work
(which chases me even on "vacation" periods and I'm not talking about
Devuan) so it will likely take me until tuesday to feed into the
document you propose.

> https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/1/edit/nXiySd0FPHvG8pBgGgImxA/aJ87TdwIEWiIk96GZcFwypnb

ciao




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[DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Michael Siegel]

There is a pretty big (2500-3000 visitors) Linux/FOSS event taking place
in Chemnitz (Germany) in March. It's called Chemnitzer Linux Tage
(Chemnitz Linux Days) and has been held annually since 1999. The
project's website can be found at

https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de.

The "About Us" page is at

https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/info/about

I think it would be great if Devuan presented itself there.

There are two possible ways of doing that:

* Giving a talk of about 30 to 45 minutes and answering questions from
the audience for another 30 or 15 minutes respectively

* Having a booth in the exhibition area of the building where people can
come by, inform themselves, ask questions, obtain installation media and
such

I think it should be possible to have both if available manpower allows
for that.

It would be best if a possible talk could be given in German language,
though that's not mandatory. The call for lectures will presumably be
out in mid-October. The website also has some notes for speakers
(https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/programm/hinweise) as well as
for exhibitors
(https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/programm/hinweise) that should
be considered.

So, if anyone's interested, I'd be quite happy. I could help organizing
things.


msi
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[DNG] Building from source [was Re: Runit crisis: was GNOME usability "improvements"]

[Didier Kryn]

Le 12/08/2017 à 05:37, Adam Borowski a écrit :


...  You can tinker on your home desktop, which is nice for
development and for exploring new ways, but it's not something for an
average user, nor anything that has a place anywhere nearby a production
machine.  If I deploy a server, I can run a git version of its main service,
but the system's base is supposed to be well integrated already.

I'm building a GNU+Busybox Linux OS with all applications 
statically linked against Musl libc. It is for fun and will never 
replace a distro; and it is very time-consuming actually.

There's a reason LFS is a curiosity rather than something for everyday use,
despite its undeniable educational value.

Gnu/Linux is almost never assembled from scratch in reality. It is 
built from a full-featured and recent Gnu/Linux development platform. 
When you want everything recompiled from scratch, say when porting to a 
new arch or linking against another libc, there is a bootstrapping 
problem. I tried LFS several years ago. The manual and the patches had 
taken so long to the authors to work-out that all packages were very 
outdated. In addition the version based on Musl libc (which I was 
willing to build) was not working AFAIR.


I now have, in a chroot, a functional development platform, meaning 
I have passed the bootstrap phase and everything is now much easier. All 
commands are statically linked except Python. It took me 4 years partial 
time, with a lot of periods in which I was totally discouraged. I 
haven't documented all the steps, but the system can recompile itself 
entirely from the official sources. I didn't start from LFS but from a 
mix of Aboriginal and Debian and it was tricky because I wanted that my 
gcc understand Ada; it has Ada, C, C++, Java, Objective-C and 
Objective-C++ (I only speak the first two).


I plan to use this system to experiment how X.Org and Mdev can play 
together - still need to build X.org :-) . I prefer experimenting in 
this simple environment to not be encumbered with package-related 
things, eg Udev.


Didier



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[DNG] donating a host

[lfs.mailing]

Hi,
Thanks for your response, golinux.
Please feel free to email me directly on this address, but I also get
the dng digests, so i'll check them a bit more frequently...
Not quite sure what you need, but i've got a couple of i5s that i'm
using as backup and are woefully under-employed, so i'd be happy to see
them work for their living.  I'd need to open the ports
for you on the router and on the machines themselves, so we'd have to
work those bits out.  
Hope to hear from you.
fraser 
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Re: [DNG] Nvidia Drivers

[Ed Fletcher]

On August 12, 2017 9:39:27 AM ADT, fsmithred  wrote:
>On 08/11/2017 09:16 PM, Ed Fletcher wrote:
>
>> Where I'm stuck is here:
>> 
>> nvidia-vdpau-driver : Depends: libvdpau1 (>= 0.9) but 0.8-3+deb8u2 is
>to
>> be installed
>> 
>> Which is odd since jessie-backports main has this:
>> 
>> Package: libvdpau1
>> Source: libvdpau
>> Version: 1.1.1-1~bpo8+1
>> 
>> Version 1.1.1 should be installing, which would satisfy the
>dependency.
>> However, it seems to be invisible to apt-get.
>> 
>
>Did you tell apt-get to install libvdpau1 from backports? Something
>like:
>  apt-get -t jessie-backports install nvidia-whatever* libvdpau1
>
>* I don't know the current package names to use. Maybe nvidia-driver
>(metapackage) is enough.
>
>fsmithred
>
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Thanks fsmithred.  Got it with:

# apt-get -t jessie-backports install libvdpau1
# apt-get -t jessie-backports install nvidia-driver
# reboot

Hmm, bash screen, no windows.

# nvidia-settings

Says to run nvidia-xconfig.  I find that in jessie contrib, add contrib to 
sources.list, update, upgrade.

# apt-get install nvidia-xconfig
# nvidia-xconfig

It complains that xorg is not installed.  This is where things went sideways.  
I followed the directions on -

git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-install-Devuan/wikis/Minimal-xorg-install

because it seemed to be a solution.  Now startx gives me:

Fatal server error: (EE) no screens found   
xinit: unable to connect to X server

# apt-get install --reinstall x-window-system

startx still fails.

I'm not sure if I've completely pooched it.  If anyone can suggest a way out 
I'd appreciate it.  Otherwise I'll reinstall the OS and try again.

Thanks,
Ed
-- 
Ed Fletcher

"Where it is a duty to worship the sun it is pretty
sure to be a crime to examine the laws of heat."
- Christopher Morley
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Re: [DNG] Nvidia Drivers

[fsmithred]

On 08/11/2017 09:16 PM, Ed Fletcher wrote:

> Where I'm stuck is here:
> 
> nvidia-vdpau-driver : Depends: libvdpau1 (>= 0.9) but 0.8-3+deb8u2 is to
> be installed
> 
> Which is odd since jessie-backports main has this:
> 
> Package: libvdpau1
> Source: libvdpau
> Version: 1.1.1-1~bpo8+1
> 
> Version 1.1.1 should be installing, which would satisfy the dependency.
> However, it seems to be invisible to apt-get.
> 

Did you tell apt-get to install libvdpau1 from backports? Something like:
  apt-get -t jessie-backports install nvidia-whatever* libvdpau1

* I don't know the current package names to use. Maybe nvidia-driver
(metapackage) is enough.

fsmithred

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Re: [DNG] This mailing list (was: Re: Nvidia Drivers)

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 at 14:19, vmlinux  wrote:

> SINCE WHEN ED? This had better be the appropriate place to discuss such
> questions because I sure don't come here for the drama. I come here for the
> technical insight, collective problem solving and all things Devuan. If
> that's not what were doing here, correct me, and I'll happily unsubscribe.
>
> 


+1

> --
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[DNG] This mailing list (was: Re: Nvidia Drivers)

[vmlinux]

SINCE WHEN ED? This had better be the appropriate place to discuss such 
questions because I sure don't come here for the drama.  I come here for the 
technical insight, collective problem solving and all things Devuan. If that's 
not what were doing here, correct me, and I'll happily unsubscribe. 



On August 12, 2017 1:35:53 AM CDT, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
::Since this is a help request, please use the appropriate place which
::is the forum.
::dev1galaxy.org
::
::After editing your /etc/apt/sources.list file you should run:
::# apt-get update
::
::After that try to see whether version 1.1.1 is available. You can use:
::apt-cache search libvdpau1
::
::Then, install the package:
::# apt-get install libvdpau1
::
::Before allowing the installation check which packages are to be
::replaced to make sure you don't break your system.
::
::-- 
::If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
::(Albert Einstein)
::If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand
::the concepts underlying them.
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Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Didier Kryn]

Le 11/08/2017 à 10:07, Narcis Garcia a écrit :


Something has to be done (written)



As you know, once everything has been /done/ and everything has 
been /written/, there is always more /written/ than /done/ :-)


Nevertheless, let me /write/ the current status of my personnal 
cogitations (as Steve mentionned there are some sound discussions 
already available, from Laurent Bercot, for example).


There is one thing which has been discussed several times on this 
list and on which it took me some time to reach an opinion: the role of 
PID1. This process has two distinctive features:


1) it inherits all the zombies. One assumes it wait()s them out.
2) the kernel /panics/ (reboots) when PID1 dies.

The OS can survive some times if PID1 stops collecting the zombies, 
maybe enough time for the admin to take action. Nevertheless the kernel 
developpers decided there should be a "kernel panic" when PID1 dies. 
Kernel panic can be made impossible, by writing a very simple program, 
which, only collects zombies. The first PID1 would first fork() another 
true Init, and then exec() a pure zombie-collector a program so short 
and simple that you're sure it'll never crash. In this situation, the 
kernel would have no chance to ever panic, but the system might become 
unusable and non-rebootable for other reasons. Therefore, if this 
"kernel panic" feature exists, it is not only because PID1 must wait() 
the zombies; it is also for the system designer to put vital rescue 
capabilites in PID1. Or for PID1 to die if the process with these vital 
capabilities dies. Because the ability to wait() zombies is not the only 
vital one.


Putting the kitchen sink in PID1 makes the system fragile and 
putting nothing may render the system unusable without a power-cycle. 
Therefore the first question is what do we want in PID1.


The 11/08/2017 at 21:32, in another thread, Adam Borowski wrote:

For me, sysvinit is good enough -- it's the rc system not init that matters.


Actually all criticism I have read against sysvinit are in reality 
against rc, that is the tricks and the bloated script files necessary to 
give the admin handles to manage the services. Sysvinit, instead, is 
still a very good compromise of what needs to be put in PID1. Or 
Busybox's Init, which is sysvinit minus the runlevels.


I think all this only leaves two questions:

1) Which sophistication of supervision/control do we want for the 
services?


2) How complicated is a supervisor which can be restarted if it 
dies? If this proves too complicated, do we want a kernel panic when the 
supervisor dies?


At this point, there might be a choice of the degree of 
complexity/capability. A laptop able to boot in 20s doesn't require the 
same things as a heavy-duty server.


 These are the considerations I would have in mind when comparing 
the available supervisor alternatives, but I didn't take the time to do 
it yet, sorry because this is probably what you are calling for.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Caching leads to unresponsiveness

[marc]

> Linux uses all available more for caching of filesystems. When copying large
> files to slow network filesystems (nfs, smb, sshfs, davfs) it takes a long
> time until such allocated memory becomes free. When these network
> filesystems saturate memory linux becomes very unresponsive. It can take
> minutes to start applications.
> 
> Is there a way to limit memory usage of network filesystems?

I can think of two, but both might require a bit of coding:

 - open(2) the target file(s) with O_DIRECT or maybe O_SYNC.
   I don't think cp(1) has that as an argument though. 
   And few remote filesystems support a sync flag...

 - rate limit the file transfer - in other words issue
   the write(2) calls at a pace which matches the bandwidth
   available. Again, I don't believe standard cp(1) has
   that feature. If it were me I would use the double
   tar trick, but write a rate-limiting pipe program
   to fit between them:

   tar -c -C /home/source -f- . | pipelimit -r 2M | tar -xv -C /mnt/target -f-

   where a simple pipelimit looks like:

 result = read(STDIN_FILENO, buffer, BUFFER_SIZE);
 usleep(small_delay);
 write(STDOUT_FILENO, buffer, result);

Conventional unix/linux assumes that filesystems are "fast", and 
one doesn't have to worry about the link properties/bandwidth to
the disk - you are bumping your head against that assumption

regards

marc
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Re: [DNG] Nvidia Drivers

[Edward Bartolo]

Since this is a help request, please use the appropriate place which
is the forum.
dev1galaxy.org

After editing your /etc/apt/sources.list file you should run:
# apt-get update

After that try to see whether version 1.1.1 is available. You can use:
apt-cache search libvdpau1

Then, install the package:
# apt-get install libvdpau1

Before allowing the installation check which packages are to be
replaced to make sure you don't break your system.

-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand
the concepts underlying them.
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