Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

Perhaps my greatest error was assuming that anyone one the list would need or even want a "dumbed down" explanation. In that case, it is most certainly a "mea culpa" on my part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

On 2016-03-02 03:19, Hendrik Boom wrote: . > > Thanks. You're welcome! =) From this it looks as if there's a table of addresses for the > external references, not a table of call instructions, as I had > previously thought. This would seemm to indicate that the coopilers > generating the code

Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-dynamic-libraries/ Sorry the link didn't get through the first time. I hope you find it useful, Hendrik. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

On 2016-03-02 01:23, Hendrik Boom wrote: > Perhaps it is worth going in to more detail. Or providing links to a > more complete description. > > -- hendrik > This may be useful to you, and better than my explanation. Like yourself, I know the basics, but not the exact details of every

Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

On 2016-03-01 23:41, Rainer Weikusat wrote: > "T.J. Duchene" <tj@???> writes: > > On 2016-03-01 20:22, Rainer Weikusat wrote: > >> "T.J. Duchene" <tj@???> writes: > >> > On 03/01/2016 08:15 AM, dng-request@??? wrote: >

Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

On 2016-03-01 20:22, Rainer Weikusat wrote: > "T.J. Duchene" <tj@???> writes: > > On 03/01/2016 08:15 AM, dng-request@??? wrote: > > [...] > > > > I'd just like to offer my opinions on the subject of Debian/Devuan > > libraries, linking

Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal

On 03/01/2016 08:15 AM, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote: Message: 6 Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 15:15:05 +0100 From: Didier Kryn To:dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [DNG] leveldb support proposal Message-ID:<56d5a3e9.3060...@in2p3.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8;

Re: [DNG] A heads up about xfce's future

On 02/29/2016 04:41 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: Hi, Hello, Edward! =) Like, I assume many, on this mailing list, know what to do when they opt not to install the default window manager or desktop. However, I think, XFCE is a good choice, although on my T4400 2GB computer it tends to be

Re: [DNG] A heads up about xfce's future

On 2016-02-29 17:12, Stephanie Daugherty wrote: > Just to clarify about "default" desktop environment and what that actually > means. > > The "default" desktop environment is the one that gets squeezed onto the > first CD/DVD of a set of installation media, as well as the one that's > installed

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

Well, I suppose the topic has been beat up enough, but I just wanted to clear up something before moving on. I want you to understand why I came to the Devuan list in the first place. I came here under the assumption that Devuan was going to be a better Debian without the shove the Technical

Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 20:19:03 + Stephanie Daugherty sdaughe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Stephanie! =) They did, but out of all this design by committee, hidden between all the political bullshit and bikeshedding, they also created the most brilliant, most comprehensive set of standards for

Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

The lack of the last two: multiple versions and shell scripts are why Debian derivatives cannot share packages, even though they use identical base code. Correction: The lack of multiple versions and packahe shell scripts are why Debian derivatives cannot share packages, even though they use

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:01:35 -0400 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Please, Steve, provide us with all you mentionned, as an alternative to mainstream bloated/infected stuff. Since Devuan is all about freedom, this is the place where to deliver to the world. As soon as I can

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

Hi Stephanie! =) On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 13:44:42 + Stephanie Daugherty sdaughe...@gmail.com wrote: I fear however that we're going to see packages with deeper and deeper entanglement with systemd, where it won't be a simple matter to patch the software to work correctly. Gnome already

Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:38:35 -0700 Isaac Dunham ibid...@gmail.com wrote: To elaborate on this, GCC 5.1 (I think) has changed the ABI for C++11 support. Packages using C++11 need to be rebuilt with the new library; libreoffice has already been rebuilt, but not KDE. That's a very good

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:26:58 -0400 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Oh, you wouldn't want to do that. Contrary to what I wrote in another thread about the perfect is the enemy of the good, if *I* were in charge of decontamination, I'd throw out whole subsystems. LOL! =) One

[DNG] Devuan and upstream

Everyone of course is welcome to comment but the question is really for the Devuan team.Is the general plan is just to copy Debian, or are there plans to make more changes than just systemd? Debian APT is an example. It's a good manager, but it falls short in some key areas that are not

Re: [DNG] Packaging

On Monday, August 10, 2015 08:15:20 AM Rainer Weikusat wrote: I'm not convinced that there is any 'overarching problem': All I meant was that Debian and Devuan have the same problem. It could be resolved by changing their packaging policies slightly. The whole reason that Devuan exists is

Re: [DNG] Devuan compared to AntiX

On 08/09/2015 06:47 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: Doesn't that machine hae teh processor for which Microsoft said that all its Windowses would be totally locked down? Or have things changed for Windows 10? Hello, Hendrik! Assuming you mean safe boot, that is only mandated for devices

Re: [DNG] non-systemd Linux for newbies with good migration tool?

On 08/09/2015 08:14 PM, Isaac Dunham wrote: Hello, I'm looking for a Linux distro that I could recommend to friends who are rather frustrated with Windows 10. The friends in question ask me about how to fix problems with their computers from time to time. With the greatest respect, Isaac, by

[DNG] Packaging (was Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in packages, possibly Mission Creep)

I know I have said this before, but I just wanted to say that both threads are really the same issue. I think the overarching problem that both Debian and Devuan have is the very same problem: packaging. From my little corner of the world, every disagreement so far seems to be a package

Re: [DNG] Unmingling kdbus and the Linux kernel

On 08/08/2015 05:36 AM, Rainer Weikusat wrote: to 'use of systemd', there are things which sound like they were to fear more seriously, ie, the stated intention of at least one kernel maintainer (Tejun Hejo, spelling probably wrong) that he wants to break userspace in order to turn cgroups

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan \WTF\?)

Roger, I haven't had a chance, but I wanted to thank you for your insights regarding C++ last month. I've not used it as a main language in some time. I was coding in C++ long before smart pointers were introduced. Old habits die hard I suppose. Your comments made me reconsider many

Re: [DNG] Unmingling kdbus and the Linux kernel

If I might add my two cents a few days late, I really do not think that kdbus matters overly much and that people (including myself in the past) have assigned too much concern to the topic. Kdbus is little more than an implementation of dbus, which is a fairly neutral protocol. The concern

Re: [DNG] Init scripts in packages

James Powell Thu, 06 Aug 2015 01:02:56 -0700 Currently Debian packages contains both systemd units and init scripts. However, Debian developers refused to support several init systems. So it's only a matter of time when they remove init scripts from packages.What will Devuan developers do when

Re: [DNG] ideas for system startup (was: Init scripts in packages)

On Friday, August 07, 2015 05:06:14 PM Gregory Nowak wrote: 2. I want ctrl+alt+del to do shutdown -h, instead of shutdown -r (another real use case on another virtual system). I couldn't figure out a way to do this in debian jessie. Now, what you proposed above from what I understand

Re: [DNG] ideas for system startup (was: Init scripts in packages)

On Friday, August 07, 2015 05:46:00 PM Gregory Nowak wrote: I also did do an aptitude search sysv when I had debian jessie freshly installed, but didn't get a match. If I could have installed sysvinit or sysvinit-core in a fresh installed, I might have tried that just to see what I got.

Re: [DNG] ideas for system startup (was: Init scripts in packages)

On Friday, August 07, 2015 06:13:10 PM Gregory Nowak wrote: I actually don't mind dropping gnome. It does depend on systemd by defacto, and is bulky. I did try xfce in a fresh install of debian jessie, and found it gave me speech when I rebooted after the install. I'm sorry, I don't know

Re: [DNG] A better default windows manager

On 07/26/2015 03:43 AM, KatolaZ wrote: I agree on keeping an eye on GNUStep but, despite I am a WMaker user, I wouldn't recommend it as a default in Devuan either. HND KatolaZ Just my two cents, Realistically, I believe the only sane choice for a *default* is XFCE 4.12. Aesthetically,

Re: [DNG] OT: some ancient programming language history

On 07/26/2015 11:08 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: I also had a long discussion with some of the guys in charge of the ADA project -- they really wanted the security that comes from completely automatic storage management but they couldn't afford to have their weapons systems stop for garbage

Re: [DNG] OT: some ancient programming language history

On Sun, 2015-07-26 at 23:58 +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: Ada is not an acronym, it's after the first name of the first person who wrote programs, the daughter of Byron, the english poet. Yes, I know. Ada is used in many places where human life is at stake: eg. planes, missiles,

Re: [DNG] A better default windows manager

That's a very gracious offer, Steve, and I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated. =) If I might say so, I HATE automount. Click to mount is fine, but automounting peripheral drives like jump drives, CDs and whatnot is an inexcusable security risk, in my opinion, even under a UNIX. Mounting

Re: [DNG] A better default windows manager

On 7/25/2015 9:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote: I've heard that wayland will require systemd. SteveT I have to apologize, Steve. When I refer to Wayland I am referring to the Linux project, which as far as I know does NOT have anything to do with systemd. It's just easier to call it Wayland

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 7/25/2015 5:26 AM, Roger Leigh wrote: In C++ this simply doesn't happen; upcasting is completely transparent, downcasting with dynamic_cast is completely safe. This can lead to long standing latent bugs in the codebase that are well hidden. What you describe is the result of poor

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

to procedural programming. At that point, anyone wanting efficiency really starts questioning the value of OOP. On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote: On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 12:36:47PM -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: On 7/25/2015 5:26 AM, Roger Leigh wrote

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 7/24/2015 5:03 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Hey T.J., you seem to contradict yourself when saying C and C++ are strongly typed and Type checking is never C's job. :-) Actually, yes, C and C++ are typed, but weakly. They silently do type conversion in pretty much every instruction.

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 7/24/2015 3:57 AM, Roger Leigh wrote: First, thank you for the reply, Roger. I supremely appreciate it. I'm referring to the *GTK* C API here. Not C in general. If I create a GObject-based class, either as a subclass of a GTK class or as an independent class subclassed from the root

Re: [DNG] A better default windows manager

On 7/24/2015 8:02 PM, Marlon Nunes wrote: On 2015-07-24 21:17, T.J. Duchene wrote: CDE is basically dead, and in my opinion should remain dead. While I can share your enthusiasm for older DE's, CDE was never a favorite of anyone except corporate. Everyone else was using FVWM, Andrew

Re: [DNG] A better default windows manager

On 7/24/2015 6:30 PM, Marlon Nunes wrote: Guys what about a true UNIX and complete desktop environment to be the 'default' desktop for devuan 2.0? here's what i'm talking about: http://sourceforge.net/p/cdesktopenv/wiki/Home/ http://sourceforge.net/p/cdesktopenv/wiki/What%20is%20CDE%3F/

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 7/24/2015 8:38 PM, Joel Roth wrote: Hi T.J. and others, I've been following this thread with some interest. T.J., it seems most of your objections to OOP are not strictly against the principles and advantages of OOP in abstract, but against the way OOP is implemented in C and C++. With

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 7/23/2015 10:41 PM, Isaac Dunham wrote: I'm inclined to agree with you on C++, but I'd like to refer you to Roger Leigh's comments on the subject about seven and a half months ago; I'm only appending the first couple screenfuls (which is maybe a third of the original) but you should be able

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 7/23/2015 9:52 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: I don't care for it myself - because it is C++. Minor correction: GTK is written in C, and relies on GLib, which is also written C. However, it's open to debate as to how similar/different C-plus-GLib is to C++ in practice. Apologies

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 08:22:55 PM Hendrik Boom wrote: On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12:01AM +0200, Teodoro Santoni wrote: ... but, yeah, it's outside the scope of Devuan. D-Bus just sucks and is documented on a random basis, when you compare it to the rest of GNU/Fedora it's... like

Re: [DNG] Multi-seat on Devuan, do we actually need that useless curiosity?

On 7/23/2015 5:37 AM, Teodoro Santoni wrote: Good morning, On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:39:23PM -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: [snip] Multi-seat logins are very useful in situations where users do not understand how to run X11 applications with different user permissions. It is an easy

Re: [DNG] Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?

On 7/23/2015 12:49 AM, James Powell wrote: First off cool your jets, and trying call me out on knowing the internals of an IPC in Userspace I didn't develop is very childish. I honestly don't care if D-Bus what it does other than be a communication and messaging relay between applications

Re: [DNG] Multi-seat on Devuan, do we actually need that useless curiosity?

Guys, I have serious problems understanding what is the point of this thread, really. And lenghty emails with many interleaving, fragmented discussions and cross-quoting from several different sources are far from helpful. Hi KatolaZ! I assure you it was never my intention to offend anyone,

Re: [DNG] Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?

On 7/23/2015 5:16 AM, Laurent Bercot wrote: I agree that it's a fight for another time, though. TY! The information was very simple and very helpful. It's a design flaw that annoys everyone so. This is quite understandable. It has been my experience that a lot of code - FOSS or not -

Re: [DNG] Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?

Like you I would like to get rid of Dbus. This was invented to replace the own equivalents of Gnome and KDE, and I need neither Gnome nor KDE. But Dbus seems to have infected every other DE. At least Xfce4. Didier I do not understand this animosity toward D-BUS. Could you

Re: [DNG] Interesting comment from a kernel developer

. [T.J. Duchene] Sorry, my fault! Mea Culpa. I should have read the original message more closely. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] Interesting comment from a kernel developer

is working anymore! Have killed Jessie and installed in the Last two days a new Wheeze MiniITX machine and now anything is working as expected. I will do anything to get rid of systemd!!! It is a nightmare! -- Michelle Konzack GNU/Linux Developer 0049-176-86004575 [T.J. Duchene] Sorry to hear

Re: [DNG] systemd in the era of hotplugable devices

to the argument: Expecting init to manage all that is stupid; init should only be concerned with system processes. Thanks, Isaac [T.J. Duchene] Please understand that I hold your opinion in the highest respect. In fact, I agree with you in substance, Isaac. That said, the reality

Re: [DNG] Jeep Cherokee hacked

They are achieving it via an on-line firmware update and downloading a completely new firmware to the entertainment unit. OS is irrelevant. [T.J. Duchene] I mean no offense, but that statement should really be qualified. Actually the OS is not irrelevant, depending on the configuration

Re: [DNG] Systemd (was Dng Digest, Vol 10, Issue 41)

On Thu, 2015-07-16 at 00:16 +0200, taoi...@gmx.net wrote: Sorry, just throwing in my 2ct, not even knowing how to correctly quote (I receive the digested list). No worries, Stephan! =) Imho the biggest chance, the biggest potential for devuan would be to just start off as another debian,

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

, and you know it: GNU's Not Unix! Do not forget we are talking of GNU/Linux. Trying to be POSIX-compliant, sure, but GNU nevertheless... a dilemma :-) Good day. Didier [T.J. Duchene] LOL! =) You make a wonderful point, Didier. Quirks in GNU tools *are* a pain

Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 09:04:43 -0700 jce j...@riseup.net wrote: But as far as the vi vs. nano as *default* editor thing, I think nano would generate a lot less how do I get out of this thing? traffic for devuan support. Gentlemen, please excuse me if this seems blunt - but - I think the

Re: [DNG] Mate

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 13:17:15 -0500 Stanley Webb sw...@cumbytel.com wrote: Will it be possible to install *.deb's in Devuan? I ask because I like the Mate desktop, and they offer deb installs at their site mate-desktop.org. also libreoffice offers deb at their site www.libreoffice.org. Hi

Re: [DNG] dng@lists.dyne.org

To: ibid...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [DNG] dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 16:46:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.11.1 (GTK+ 2.24.28; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:38:47 -0700 ibid...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by alternative package chains. Multiple

Re: [DNG] dng@lists.dyne.org

: On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 06:18:09PM -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: If I might say so, I think that Devuan's short-term goal should be to get a release out as soon as possible, as close to Debian Jesse as possible. I agree with James and T.J. here. Devuan 1.0 should be debian 8 sans

Re: [DNG] dng@lists.dyne.org

On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:45:49 -0700 James Powell james4...@hotmail.com wrote: If the goal of Devuan is Debian sans-systemd, then no changes other than rebuilding packages to exclude systemd support is needed. If I might say so, I think that Devuan's short-term goal should be to get a release

[DNG] FW: systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer

-Original Message- From: T.J. Duchene [mailto:t.j.duch...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 12:14 PM To: 'Teodoro Santoni' Subject: RE: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer And as a caveman, I would also very much appreciate a sensible quoting, even

Re: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer

From: James Powell [mailto:james4...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 2:37 PM To: T.J. Duchene; 'dng' Subject: RE: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer I also do not think recreating SVCHOST is wise. I followed Windows since 2000 and since then SVCHOST has pulled in more

Re: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer

From: James Powell [mailto:james4...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:27 PM To: T.J. Duchene Subject: RE: [DNG] systemd in wheezy, was: Re: bummer I think if Devuan can break the dependency, it can prove more than most people realize. We will certainly see

Re: [Dng] Is it useful to create a .so file to replace functions imported from libsystemd Co.?

After more digging, what did the problem turn out to be? policykit-1. Yup, during my upgrade, I snagged policykit-1 from Devuan. It broke things. I apt-get remove'd policykit-1, and lookit that, my Reboot/Shutdown buttons are back. I didn't even have to restart XFCE. ~jaret

Re: [Dng] How to bust into a broken Qemu VM?

I am impressed by the moral clarity and impassionate manner of the subscribers on this list today: You mentioned system-rescuec-d and did not cause a flame war. Arnt I'd like to think that we set differences aside when some needs help. ___ Dng

Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development

I thought it was already settled and decided by the VUA that Devuan Jessie will use udev. I agree with this stance, for the same reason as T.J. points out--udev is production-ready, whereas vdev is not. It's the pragmatic thing to do--I only have a handful of hours per week to work on vdev,

Re: [Dng] Systemd discussions at LinuxQuestions.

You both made good points. I've been around a while, so I'll just speak my mind. If that bothers anyone, please plug your ears. I've used Unix before Linux existed, and after. I've seen ideas come and go. Systemd is absolutely nothing new, nor is the community reaction to it even surprising.

Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development

People are working _now_ on eudev as a replacement for udev until vdev is finished. It might even be a good replacement for udev already for the devuan jessie release. [T.J. ] That's very interesting and information I did not know. You have to admit that actual development details

Re: [Dng] Devuan - Fork or Derivative (or perhaps both)

-Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Reurich Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:58 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: [Dng] Devuan - Fork or Derivative (or perhaps both) Hi I wonder if Devuan should rebrand its relationship to Debian

Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development

-Original Message- From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of David Hare Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:12 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development While we're waiting for vdev (that does look like the way to go)

[Dng] Is it useful to create a .so file to replace functions imported from libsystemd Co.?

With respect, Edward, I can't imagine why you are taking the long way around in regards to systemd XFCE 4.12 can be compiled without systemd to my knowledge. That would eliminate any concerns. T.J. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [Dng] why someone might want systemd on devuan

This is the exact situation in which I'm glad for containers and VMs. Use all the systemd you want, but keep it in a Biosafety level 4 containment facility. I'd use a VM. I suspect a container or chroot would not be sufficient. =) All jokes aside, this would be why I am watching the systembsd

Re: [Dng] Systemd discussions at LinuxQuestions.

I am reposting this with apologies to all concerned. Outlook mangled the message text. The top few paragraphs were not my own. They belong to James P. Unfortunately this seems to be a growing trend following the Microsoft playbook of acquisition,

[Dng] Purpose of systemd-shim

Also, if one really, really, really needs a systemd burdened software, he could always run it in a Docker container. Hey, Steve! Good to hear from you! Now that is a very good point. Unfortunately, running systemd inside of Docker container requires a privileged container and does

Re: [Dng] Purpose of systemd-shim

On 2015-04-15 19:01, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 06:39:29PM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 01:22:28PM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: systemd-shim is for when you *don't* want systemd. Yes, but cause of you have things that depend on

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

-Original Message- From: Jaromil [mailto:jaro...@dyne.org] Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 2:28 AM To: T.J. Duchene; dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd hi T.J. On 6 April 2015 01:37:23 CEST, T.J. Duchene t.j.duch...@gmail.com

[Dng] Contact

Anyone wants to contact me is certainly welcome to do so off of the Devuan list, on any subject they please. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I believe that it is in Devuan's best interest that I leave. By removing myself from the list, legitimate conversation can continue. I'm still

Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated!

-Original Message- From: neofu...@ww7.be [mailto:neofu...@ww7.be] On Behalf Of Neo Futur Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 11:10 PM To: T.J. Duchene Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated! I m a gentoo and mageia user ( but I donated half a bitcoin

Re: [Dng] systemd : the perfect Unix philosophy

-Original Message- From: toto titi [mailto:voidtothete...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 5:25 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: [Dng] systemd : the perfect Unix philosophy I love that one : http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.directives.ht ml

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

-Original Message- From: Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI [mailto:ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org] Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 5:34 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 00:11:55 +0200 toto titi

Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan

-Original Message- From: Martin Steigerwald [mailto:mar...@lichtvoll.de] Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 3:36 AM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan Please do not Cc me personally on your reply. [T.J. ] Apologies. Reply to all

Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan

-Original Message- From: Adam Borowski [mailto:kilob...@angband.pl] Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 9:41 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 08:38:07PM -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: [T.J. ] To be honest

Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan

Where i come from ISP's dynamic IP lease times are *very* long, you need to reboot the home router to get a new IP and even then you may get the same IP. It's not that dynamic, at all. Add that with data your browser provides, your *.google.com in|direct usage, etc... it's easy to correlate

Re: [Dng] What do you guys think about Suggest and Recommends dependency?

-Original Message- From: Franco Lanza [mailto:next...@nexlab.it] Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 5:36 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: [Dng] What do you guys think about Suggest and Recommends dependency? Personally on debian i was using from date APT:Install-Recommends 0;

Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan

Bug#761658: Please do not default to using Google nameservers Marco tagged it as wontfix. Seriously, if I didn´t configure a nameserver I *mean* it. I don´t want it to just choose a Google nameserver then, without even telling me. [T.J. ] To be honest, I do not quite get what the

Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update and milestone

-Original Message- From: Joerg Reisenweber [mailto:reisenwe...@web.de] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:33 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update and milestone On Tue 24 March 2015 22:17:20 Steve Litt wrote: This systemd debacle increased by an

Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update and milestone

Are you for real? [T.J. ] Just to clear things up. If so: 1) Drepper maintained glibc, not gcc. These are two separate projects. True. I always treat GCC and glibc as somewhat synonymous since they go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other for all intents as

Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update and milestone

KatolaZ, [T.J. ] What I said was: It should be important to note that a segfault can be caused by any number of things, that can be unrelated to systemd itself. I do grant you that systemd has its share of undesirables, but it could be exposing a flaw in the lower libraries as well. A lot

Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update and milestone

Defaults are not necessarily caused by glibc itself Defaults = Segfaults. Don't you just hate autocorrect? T.J. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update and milestone

If something goes wrong somewhere and X11 segfaults (which I think does not happen more than once in a few decades, at least with the stable version of Xorg), then we might complain and make a fuss, but in the end is not that big deal. Having systemd as PID 1 segfaulting is a completely

[Dng] FW: Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

True. This description of the project contains already a lot of the ideas we are shaking on the list. There are still concerns about the fact that some of the software we use are big hairballs and enforce technical lock-ins. Eg. the Linux kernel and the X- Window

Re: [Dng] Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 75

Hey Steve! Do you understand what mailing list this is? Yes. I do. I didn't start the discussion. I actually recommended tabling it until after Devuan is released. Why in the *world* would we go to the substantial trouble of depoetterizing Debian if we wanted systemd to sneak back in via some

Re: [Dng] API: was (for who knows what reason): Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 75, Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

Sorry about that bad Subject line, gentlemen. I used Gmail's web interface last night and it totally screwed things up. @Steve Litt, Numo, and Patrick: Frankly everyone, without trying to be rude here - that is your prerogative whether you like or hate Gnome, systemd or whatever. I

[Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied? {FW copy - was : Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 75 by mistake)

From: T.J. Duchene [mailto:t.j.duch...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 2:25 AM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 75 Hey Steve! Do you understand what mailing list this is? Yes. I do. I didn't start the discussion. I actually recommended tabling

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

a sustainable goal to begin with. But I understood this thread started with questioning the long term policy. [T.J. Duchene] Nothing wrong with that. I'm just and only saying that if Devuan's goal is to release Devuan 1.0, then the best and most reliable QA process would be not to support anything

Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?

-Original Message- On Fri 20 March 2015 08:56:47 Go Linux wrote: I support this idea. Put all the systemd stuff in a 'quarantine' repo with the appropriate 'use at your own risk' caveats. From: Steve Litt [mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com] What would especially float my boat,

Re: [Dng] Devuan governance

to do - I'm sure you would rather be coding - but sometimes those sort of gestures are important to others. Thanks t.j. -Original Message- From: Jaromil [mailto:jaro...@dyne.org] Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 7:46 AM To: T.J. Duchene Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan

Re: [Dng] Devuan foundational philosophy: was greets

-Original Message- From: Steve Litt [mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:52 AM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: [Dng] Devuan foundational philosophy: was greets Hi KatolaZ, Naturally, my crystal ball is no better than anybody else's, but my prediction is

Re: [Dng] Plan for Devuan to use Mozilla products as is

-Original Message- From: Nate Bargmann [mailto:n...@n0nb.us] Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2015 6:36 PM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] Plan for Devuan to use Mozilla products as is Unfortunately, this sort of inconsistency toward their definition of stable caused problems in

Re: [Dng] Plan for Devuan to use Mozilla products as is

Go look at the code, it's open is a common argument i hear from pro-systemd advocates. Curious. About looking at the code: have you personally audited chrome's code, top to bottom, OpenBSD-style? 'Cos if you haven't - it is a big piece of software -, well your argument is moot Nuno,

Re: [Dng] [OT] Debian problems with Jesse - was simple backgrounds

are better. I believe they create the worst kind of programmers: lazy. t.j. On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 01:39:55AM -0600, T.J. Duchene wrote: On 03/03/2015 09:07 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: As time passed, they kept finding new

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