There is an excellent video magazine here, all about kite antennas in
Great Britain
http://www.txfilms.co.uk/txfactor/txf003.shtml
73 de David G4DMP
In a recent message, K8JHR jricha...@k8jhr.com writes
Short wave listeners use kites and baloons to hold up long wire
antennas all the time.
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
On 6/25/2014 5:43 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
So, I've been selecting two of the tallest
candidates a couple of hundred feet apart and stringing a stout nylon rope
between them
I wonder if the tree hurts during key down?
Sent from my iPhone this time
On Jun 26, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu wrote:
Now THAT is what being a ham is about!
OK, my part in this thread is over. Loading a tree can't be topped.
Ted, KN1CBR
We have one
27, 2014 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
I wonder if the tree hurts during key down?
Sent from my iPhone this time
On Jun 26, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu wrote:
Now THAT is what being a ham is about!
OK, my part in this thread is over. Loading a tree
...@icloud.com
To: Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
I wonder if the tree hurts during key down?
Sent from my iPhone this time
On Jun 26, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu wrote
I do it a little diffeerently. I tie a rock on the end of the Antenna that
needs to be in the tree. Then I lay the wire untangled on the ground. Then I
tie the other end to myself so I don't throw the wire where I can't find it. I
can't get the heighth I would like, But I don't have to try
k6...@foothill.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
On 6/26/2014 4:12 PM, Rick Bates, WA6NHC wrote:
This may be off topic, but in light of it being Field Day Weekend in
the US
It's radio, Eric will probably see
Hmmm vertical dipole... vs... end fed half wave vertical dipole
- not sure these are equivalent in performance. I know W8JI thinks
the end fed half wave needs some sort of ground system-counterpoise to
keep the feed line from becoming part of the antenna, so I am wondering
- asking not
Half-wave dipoles are equal no matter how they are fed. With an end-fed
dipole, the short counterpoise advocated by W8JI is merely a method of
accomplishing feed to that high impedance point. There is no difference
in the radiation of any half wave dipole (except as influenced by
ground,
Why would it matter where it's fed? A half wave dipole has the same current
distribution regardless of the feed point.
Wes. N7WS
On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:51 AM, K8JHR jricha...@k8jhr.com wrote:
Hmmm vertical dipole... vs... end fed half wave vertical dipole -
not sure these are
way up in the tree.
73, Charlie k3ICH
- Original Message - From: Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
On 6/26/2014 4:12 PM, Rick Bates, WA6NHC wrote:
This may be off topic
in a knot way up in the
tree.
73, Charlie k3ICH
- Original Message - From: Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
On 6/26/2014 4:12 PM, Rick Bates, WA6NHC wrote:
This may be off
Baytalskiy [mailto:sla...@nullserv.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 6:25 PM
To: Rick Bates, WA6NHC
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
I wonder if anyone's ever used a kite in a field to keep a wire up.
I see kites a lot in the summer, along belt parkway here
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
On 6/26/2014 4:12 PM, Rick Bates, WA6NHC wrote:
This may be off topic, but in light of it being Field Day Weekend in
the US
It's radio, Eric will probably see it as relevant, unless we overdo it,
which we
On 6/27/2014 3:16 AM, Gerry leary wrote:
Thanks very much for showing me HYpower Anntennas. They look very interesting,
and I am going to call them with questions.
When I was getting back on the air in 2003 in Chicago, I needed a
shortened antenna for 80 and 40. I bought his shortened 80/40
On 6/27/2014 6:30 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
if you can couple RF into it, it will radiate.
Yes. There are many ways to feed a vertical dipole. I developed a method
that uses the outside of the coax as half of the dipole, and uses a
ferrite choke to form the end insulator. The choke is
...@audiosystemsgroup.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
On 6/25/2014 5:43 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
So, I've been selecting two of the tallest
candidates a couple of hundred feet apart and stringing a stout
nylon rope
between
http://w5jgv.com/tree_antenna/index.htm
Ralph is the ham I was referring to. Now you have as much as I am
aware of. I forgot that Ralph wound a torus around the tree
base. He used an old oak which brings song to mind tie a yellow
ribbon around that ole oak tree
The question about
This is how we feel about the plant world:
*John Barleycorn*
There were three men came out of the West,
Their fortunes for to try,
And these three men made a solemn vow:
John Barleycorn must die.
They've ploughed, they've sown, they've harrowed him in,
Threw clods upon his head,
And these
Doug - I've been using an 88 foot long doublet at 45 feet for about four years
- works very, very well on 40-6 meters. It tunes on 80 but I have an inverted L
I use there. Currently I feed it with about 110 feet of 450-ohm ladder line and
a Current Designs 4:1 balun, and then about ten feet of
This guy comae up with a variation on the OCF Dipole that matches well
on many bands and has been field tested in contests by a station in
Germany. Lightweight, low profile, durable, especially good for QRP or
field day operations.
Maybe it will give you an idea or two... I understand the
I also have one of their fan dipoles: full size 40, full size 20 with coils and
more wire on the ends that gives me shortened 80. Excellent quality! Great
price.
Brian KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 27, 2014, at 6:16 AM, Gerry leary gerrylear...@icloud.com wrote:
Thanks very much for
End of thread.
In the future, please self moderate and end threads as quickly as possible in
the interest of better list SNR.
73,
Eric
Modulator
elecraft.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home:
Hi Jim,
This thread has been closed. Please take further discussion off list in the
interest of reducing list overload for others.
73,
Eric
elecraft.com
On 6/28/2014 9:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
On 6/27/2014 6:30 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
if you can couple RF into it, it will radiate.
Yes.
. The ends droop down at about 45
degrees to tie-off points in trees. A compromise? Yes, but it works.
73, Charlie k3ICH
- Original Message -
From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF
This is an interesting discussion about antennas for forest regions where you
have very tall trees. I have a lot of trees, but getting an antenna to 45 or
50 feet would involve very small branches. I have mostly Chinese Tallow Trees
with some Ash and Beech, so stringing a wire from trees is
out.
Keith
KB9WMJ
- Original Message -
From: Fred Townsend fptowns...@earthlink.net
To: Doug Person k0...@aol.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees [OT]
Hi Doug:
I use a similar technique in suspending my antennas
The K9YC modelling with EZNEC
http://k9yc.com/VertOrHorizontal-Slides.pdf is quite interesting.
Certainly has me thinking about vertical dipoles. The half-wave end-fed
looks like the perfect candidate for a simple vertical dipole.
Doug -- K0DXV
On 6/25/14, 11:55 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
On
- From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF in the Trees
On 6/25/2014 5:43 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
So, I've been selecting two of the tallest
candidates a couple of hundred feet apart and stringing
That's a good and useful presentation. Although they don't affect Jim's
vertical vs. horizontal conclusions, slides 22, 26, and 73 contain errors
confusing quarter- and half wavelengths for 160/80/40 meters (i.e. 133 ft is
a quarter wave on 160, not a half wave).
John, KU4AF
Pittsboro, NC
On 6/26/2014 9:17 AM, KU4AF wrote:
Although they don't affect Jim's
vertical vs. horizontal conclusions, slides 22, 26, and 73 contain errors
confusing quarter- and half wavelengths for 160/80/40 meters (i.e. 133 ft is
a quarter wave on 160, not a half wave).
Thanks John. I had fixed that at
I have used trees to hang wire in the past.
Now I use metal trees i.e. Rohn-25 and Rohn-45 metal trees. Much
easier to climb and they do not sway near as much. Truthfully, the
forest does not reach much higher than50-60 feet in my part of
Alaska. We get 50-60 mph winds each year (mainly in
My only method of raising wire into the air to act as dipoles (actually fan
dipoles) are trees -- nice tall straight trees. In my case, Douglas Fir, Red
Cedar, and Hemlock. Each tree is about 80 to 95 feet tall. I don't climb
these trees though. All antennas launched via bow arrow with
Jim's presentation is excellent, covering lots of trade-offs that most
of us face putting up antennas. There are a couple (at least) other
aspects that should be considered.
I've been using an end fed half wave vertical for several years with my
K1 for portable ops. It's easy to put up on a
On 6/26/2014 1:38 PM, Brian Hunt wrote:
I've been using an end fed half wave vertical for several years with my
K1 for portable ops.
EFHW's are very popular with the Summits On The Air crowd, and there are
several varieties of transformers that will get the impedance down to
what the ATU in
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com wrote:
I'm getting pretty good with the bow arrow method
===
For years I used a slingshot, firing a weight attached to a spinning reel.
Worked pretty good. But last year I bought one of these gadgets:
I have a theory about this.
Compare a vertical to a dipole. One reason for additional noise is that
a vertical is omnidirectional, and noise comes from all directions. The
signal is coming from one direction, and if it is the right direction,
then the 2.2 dB gain from directivity of a dipole
This may be off topic, but in light of it being Field Day Weekend in the US
The problem with the bow or slingshot is when (if) the projectile comes down.
The arrow has an issue because it gets hung up or in branches and doesn't have
enough mass to pass through some branches or allow
I wonder if anyone's ever used a kite in a field to keep a wire up.
I see kites a lot in the summer, along belt parkway here in Brooklyn and they
seem to stay in one place for long periods of time.
I'm sure one can use 12 or 14 AWG wire and let a kite carry it pretty high. Of
course you need
This may be off topic, but in light of it being Field Day Weekend in the
US
The problem with the bow or slingshot is when (if) the projectile comes down.
The arrow has an issue because it gets hung up or in branches and doesn't
have enough mass to pass through some branches or
On 6/26/2014 4:12 PM, Rick Bates, WA6NHC wrote:
This may be off topic, but in light of it being Field Day Weekend in
the US
It's radio, Eric will probably see it as relevant, unless we overdo it,
which we do at times. :-)
The arrow has an issue because it gets hung up or in branches
Now THAT is what being a ham is about!
OK, my part in this thread is over. Loading a tree can't be topped.
Ted, KN1CBR
We have one member of the ARRL Experimental Group on 600m that has
actually loaded a pine tree to act as a vertical antenna, He wrapped
a huge amount of wire around the
On 6/26/2014 4:24 PM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:
I wonder if anyone's ever used a kite in a field to keep a wire
up. I see kites a lot in the summer, along belt parkway here in
Brooklyn and they seem to stay in one place for long periods of
time. I'm sure one can use 12 or 14 AWG wire and let a
Hmmm. Interesting theory Vic. I agree that ambient noise probably
doesn't have any particular polarization. My dipoles clearly have less
noise pickup than my verticals. I do have a Cushcraft MV-6 compact
vertical on top of the garage which has a balun as part of its design
and it's noise
Short wave listeners use kites and baloons to hold up long wire antennas
all the time. I did this long before becoming a ham.
-- K8JHR --
On 6/26/2014 7:24 PM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:
I wonder if anyone's ever used a kite in a field to keep a wire
I remember that Benjamin Franklin was a short wave listener -- his radio used a
rusty key as the detector. His resonant circuit included a Leyden Jar
capacitor. He quit this hobby though when, during an electrical storm, his
lightning protection failed and destroyed his rig. Embarrassed
I have been playing with the two-tree solution to the one tree problem,
with a family of inverted Vees (and a K3 and KX3, for keeping this on
topic). The one tree problem is that a Vee hoisted onto a top limb of a
coniferous tree is inevitably too close to if not tangled into the
branches below
I run the following antennas in some pretty serious forest, and I get great
results with them all:
- 160M Inverted L with elevated radials over Pine trees. The tree is
about 90ft tall and then the insulated wire loops over a branch
- 80M Vertical also will elevated radials (the rope
I use a similar approach. I have a very strong Kevlar line strung
between two tall trees and the dipoles are at least 40 feet from either
tree. My dipoles at 60 feet out perform my beam at 30 feet by a
substantial margin.
Doug, K0DXV
On 6/25/14, 6:43 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
I have been
The best trick I've found in dealing with moving trees is running the
line through a pulley down to a weight that is heavy enough to keep the
things reasonably taught. The trees can move all the want and the line
just rides on the pulleys.
Doug -- K0DXV
On 6/25/14, 6:51 PM, Michael Walker
of the volume of sap and water so the
wetter the more loss and the further away you want to keep the antenna.
73,
Fred, AE6QL
,
-Original Message-
From: Doug Person via Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Jun 25, 2014 8:03 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RF
On 6/25/2014 5:43 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
So, I've been selecting two of the tallest
candidates a couple of hundred feet apart and stringing a stout nylon rope
between them. In the middle of the cord I attach the balun for the Vees,
thereby allowing the legs to be in the clear, moveable from
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