Hi John:
I presume that the fault current path for the ungrounded
SELV pole must be routed through the SELV source to ground
as that path is the lowest impedance path to ground. It
seems to me that the fault current would have to pass
through the transformer winding. In
-Original Message-
From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com
[mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:15 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Pre-amps
I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that
provide preamps
with a 20-22dB
I knew someone was going to ask this..
A few years back, I was attending a UL 1950 seminar in Minneapolis.
One of the presenters (a fellow named 'Bahra') happened to mention
that UL has a specification for the 'electric chair'.
The operating current was quoted by him to not exceed 70ma.
I
If you want to save some money, try Mini-Circuits. http://www.minicircuits.com/
We use one of their amps as a pre-amp to our receiver (don't have the model
number handy). It give us about 22db gain from 10Mhz-2Ghz. Works good and it
cost hundreds, not thousands of dollars. Beware! What you
I read in !emc-pstc that marti...@appliedbiosystems.com wrote (in
of931a5cdb.ac7941d8-on88256b04.0063e...@pe-c.com) about 'Pre-amps', on
Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps
with a 20-22dB gain.
You wouldn't care to suggest a frequency
I read in !emc-pstc that John Shinn john.sh...@sanmina.com wrote (in
004301c16d2f$1286d000$0b3d1...@hadco.comsanmina.com) about '80/80 rule
for euro compliance?', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
OK - Lets settle if for all of you young folk. The 80/80 rule originated
in VDE 0871/6.78, section 4.1.4.
I
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
20041710.jaa08...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com) about 'AW: Define Continuous
DC Voltage', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
A SELV circuit can be grounded. As a result of
connecting the SELV to ground, the name of the circuit
may change to PELV or
What happened to the RCIC Website?
Pryor
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
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To cancel your subscription, send mail
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
20041912.laa08...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com) about 'AW: Define Continuous
DC Voltage', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
I presume that the fault current path for the ungrounded
SELV pole must be routed through the SELV source to ground
as that path
Keep in mind that failure of the earthing can also be an undetected
fault.
The intent is to provide two levels of protection, two layers of
insulation or one layer of insulation plus earthing. In each case,
failure of one level may go undetected until failure of the second
produces a hazard.
Amund:
In answer to your question, I would cite the words of President
Ronald Reagan, quoting Chairman Gorbachev, quoting V.I. Lenin:
Doveryay, no proveryay. - Trust, but verify.
Regards,
Jack
Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E.
65 Crandon Way
Rochester, NY 14618
Phone: 716 442 3909
Fax: 716 442 2182
Please, oh please! let Ed Price have the job.
-ANYTHING to keep Ed out his Santa suit Ho, HO, HOing around the malls.. :)
He beat me to it last year. I NEED the spare income this year.
heh heh,
kyle
-Original Message-
From: lfresea...@aol.com [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday,
John,
I mean the CE mark + DoC. From my point of view, I'd like to see some test
reports or other relevant documentation. But I'm now talking about
standalone products build-in for commercial systems. I think I will accept
the CE mark next time I buy an electric shaver. Guess Philips won't spend
John,
I won't take any risk at all I mean, as long as you verify test reports
for standalone units and also check up with possible addition hardware
requirements if the unit shall be incorporated to a larger system, I think
we have done as much as you can expect. The next step would be to
Joe,
HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are
looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at
(949) 587-9800.
Regards, Ravinder
PCB Development and Design Department
IBM Corporation
Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com
Hi John:
SELV can protect under single fault conditions. BUT, as I tried to
explain, under some conditions, it can allow a single fault *to persist
undetected*, until eventually a second, unrelated fault occurs which
then results in a serious hazard.
This is a
Thomas
In Brazil you need to comply to CISPR 22 and all the IEC 6100-4 family. More
information can be found at ANATEL (national telecommunication agency) site:
www.anatel.gov.br
Sérgio Rocha Loures
Siemens Ltda. - Brazil
Supply Chain - Quality and Engineering
IC SC QE L
Tel: +55 41
This is a re-post since I have not received any replies. Please respond if
you have any information. Thanks, Richard.
-Original Message-
From: WOODS, RICHARD
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:34 PM
To: 'emc-pstc'
Subject: German X-ray requirements for monitors
A
I read in !emc-pstc that gunter_j_ma...@embraco.com.br wrote (in
offe76605a.acd9696b-on83256b04.00537...@embraco.com.br) about
'Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz', on Wed, 14 Nov
2001:
List
Nowadays, we run conducted EMI tests according to EN55014-1 to household
appliances.
The
I read in !emc-pstc that Loop, Robert rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com wrote (in
81a0ea0cd2a23f439f43a64d24db7d8d08f...@hnt.wylelabs.com) about
'Grounding Continuity Testers for UL 60950', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
Where in the world can
we get a tester that would go up to 200 amps with a 12 V output?
Vehicle
I read in !emc-pstc that am...@westin-emission.no wrote (in LFENJLPMMJB
mhpeibnilieagcbaa.am...@westin-emission.no) about 'CE-mark compliance',
on Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
Hi all,
Do all manufactures fulfill the EU-directives with testing in their own
facilities or by an independent test lab? I guess
I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps
with a 20-22dB gain.
What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why?
Your assistance is appreciated.
Regards
Joe Martin
Applied Biosystems
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC
I read in !emc-pstc that John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote (in
bhmfeca9hj87e...@jmwa.demon.co.uk) about 'AW: Define Continuous DC
Voltage', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
I said quite clearly that failure of double or reinforced insulation is
acceptable because failure of it has an acceptably low
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
20041626.iaa08...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com) about '[Fwd: User Warning
Signal Words]', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001:
Most warnings are ignored because we use warnings
indiscriminately. Like the story of the boy who cried
Wolf! we have diminished
Amund
Do you mean just the CE Mark, or the CE Mark accompanied by the appropriate
DoC?
Here is a an example of what can happen if you accept the Mark on its own,
A few years ago, in a well-publised legal case in the UK, a PC reseller had
his own badge placed on the equipment. However, when
Hello Thomas,
the situation of the EMC issues applicable to radio equipment is as follows:
Brazil:
Approval needed from ANATEL, the telecom regulator. Radio equipment are
considered as Category II and no EMC requirements are applicable unless it
has any connection to a public network. Then,
Hi Vito:
Could either of you clarify why a double insulated SELV circuit can not be
grounded? Is it a 60950 based or based on some other performance(?) based
requirements?
This requires a bit of history. I don't have all of
the history, but I can fill in some of the blanks.
IEC
OK - Lets settle if for all of you young folk. The 80/80 rule originated
in VDE 0871/6.78, section 4.1.4.
Regards,
John Shinn, P.E.
Manager, Lab. Operations
Sanmina
-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Lou
Hi John:
My point is that, if attention-demanding words of differing intensity
are considered necessary, how can they be chosen, other than the way
they are at present?
Of course, you may deny that differing intensity is necessary, so that
only one word is required, but I
Compliance West USA makes high current continuity testers. I have a 200A
model. Their website is:
http://www.compwest.com/
Patty Knudsen
Ericsson Wireless Communications
patricia.knud...@ericsson.com
-Original Message-
From: Loop, Robert [mailto:rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com]
Sent:
In the past I had been involved with integration of standalone products
into a larger system. Ultimately my larger system would be required to
be tested, and I would want it to pass.
As the customer who would integrate production quantities of the
standalone, I asked for the report. Those that
Note that such a tester may be unnecessary. Note that 2.6.3.3 requires
testing only for PROTECTIVE BONDING CONDUCTORS that do not comply with
the minimum sizes in table 3B and for protective bonding terminals that
do not comply with table 3E.
You are unlikely to find a tester of this size on the
Hi David,
Please have a look at the free On-Line training courses that are on our web
site at www.test4safety.com, follow the E-Learning Solutions link and
download ES/2001/INTPWRSUP/D 007
The solution is there.
Best regards
Gregg
PS - we are tidying up the material so it may change over the
List
Nowadays, we run conducted EMI tests according to EN55014-1 to household
appliances.
The frequency range is 150kHz up to 30MHz.
Is there any standard or project to impose limits to lower frequencies ?
Thanks
Günter J. Maass
EMBRACO S.A.
---
This
Robert,
We often do high current tests as a type test and on our production line
this is a routine test. Some people have used simple arc welders. They are
economical but you have to be careful of the strike voltage. Another
alternative is that most agencies allow you to do a DC test in which
To all the group, Thank you for your overwhelming response on this issue. I now
have a very clear understanding of ULC vs. CUL.
Thanks again,
Joe
Josiah P. Burch
Compliance Engineer II
Andover Controls Corporation
300 Brickstone Square
Andover,Ma 01810
(978)-470-0555 x335
(978)-470-3615 Fax
Hi all,
Do all manufactures fulfill the EU-directives with testing in their own
facilities or by an independent test lab? I guess the answer must be No.
From my time working in a test lab, my experience is that big companies like
Alcatel, Siemens and so on, do the required testing according to
Is someone know if we have to comply with specific EMC requirements for
radio products for adressing Bresil, Mexique and Argentina countries?
Thanks for your help
Thomas LUCHINI
EMC Engineer
SANMINA
Good Morning Group,
Does anyone have any information regarding high amperage continuity
testers that might be purchased for testing compliance with Sub-Clause
2.6.3 of UL 60950?
My concern is regarding high amperage equipment and the requirement to
test at two times the circuit current.
We
I read in !emc-pstc that Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com wrote (in
007501c16cba$d2481220$3e3e3...@corp.auspex.com) about '80/80 rule for
euro compliance?', on Tue, 13 Nov 2001:
I have never liked the 80-80 Rule as liberal as some may
think it is. I've even toyed with the idea of writing a
I read in !emc-pstc that vit...@aol.com wrote (in 117.79cc5a2.29233849@
aol.com) about 'AW: Define Continuous DC Voltage', on Tue, 13 Nov 2001:
Could either of you clarify why a double insulated SELV circuit can not be
grounded? Is it a 60950 based or based on some other performance(?) based
I have never liked the 80-80 Rule as liberal as some may
think it is. I've even toyed with the idea of writing a paper
about it, but I think I'd go to sleep writing it, let alone
presenting it.
If you take the basic premise statistically and work out the
numbers yourself, you will
John, Rich;
Could either of you clarify why a double insulated SELV circuit can not be
grounded? Is it a 60950 based or based on some other performance(?) based
requirements?
thx,
vgl
In a message dated Tue, 13 Nov 2001 7:51:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rich
Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com writes:
Hi Ted:
The electrician's rule of thumb when working on domestic wiring was to
always check the wire is dead, even though you isolated it, in case of
bridging or faulty connection. The technique used was to brush the
exposed conductor lightly with the back of the fingers. Any
ULC vs. CULJoe,
The ULC mark is the mark issued by Underwriters Laboratories of Canada for
certain products to be sold only in Canada.
The c-UL mark is the mark issued by Underwriters Laboratories for products
to be sold in Canada. The c-UL-us mark is the only mark for both the US and
Canadian
Hi John:
SELV can protect under single fault conditions. BUT, as I tried to
explain, under some conditions, it can allow a single fault *to persist
undetected*, until eventually a second, unrelated fault occurs which
then results in a serious hazard.
This is a problem of the
Hi John:
Tetanus is a disease caused by a bacillus. Muscles spasm is tetany.
Not according to my (American) dictionary.
Tetanus has two definitions.
The first is the disease or the bacterium that causes
the disease.
The second is a prolonged contraction of a muscle
resulting from
I believe it is 2000-2700V and about 7-10A the value has increased from
1700V and 6A because some prisoners did not die.
Regards,
Jorge Sarellano
TUV PRODUCT SERVICE
Compliance Engineer
Phone 408-919-3744
Fax 408-919-0585
Have you visited http://www.tuvam.com lately?
-Original Message-
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
20032049.maa06...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com) about '[Fwd: User Warning
Signal Words]', on Tue, 13 Nov 2001:
Well... I guess I didn't make my point.
The ANSI standard defines three classes of signal
words.
I think you did, but you may
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