johnwag...@avaya.com
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:13 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: D of C again
I read in !emc-pstc that Wagner, John P (John) johnwag...@avaya.com
wrote (in 4203D61676D0AE468AA5CEA90A891C130288F018
I agree with Paul. It is usually very difficult to print the DoC in the users
manual. Ordinarily, the manual is approved and goes to print before the final
testing of the product and certainly before the DOC is signed.
One solution we have used is to print all the compliance information in
You'll find this requirement in NEC Article 210.21 (B) (2)
Total cord and plug connected load. Where connected to a branch circuit
supplying 2 or more rreceptacles or outlets, a receptacle shall not supply a
total cord and plug connected load in excess of the maximum in table
210.21(B)(2).
Nonsense! Both the basic standard and the CISPR standard have words to the
effect that performance degradation is defined by the manufacturer.
John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Westminster, CO
It passed by one vote. CISPR/I/73/RVD is the voting report.
John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Westminster, CO 80234-2726
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com
From:
It is my understanding that such ports ARE included in the scope. Comments
from experts on CISPR/I indicate that digital TV tends to have higher
emissions than traditional TV signals. The intent of the standard is
clearly to limit emissions from cabling structures. Unless test data shows
Ground loops
John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Westminster, CO 80234-2726
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, January
As the requirements for conducted emissions on telecom ports developed,
definitions changed repeatedly -- all intended to describe the same cabling.
At one point, extensive networks was used which I think better describes the
situation. However, then the question is What is extensive? Also,
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
You may be right -- the WEEE deals with how to dispose of waste and who pays
for such disposal and reclamation.
I think you should be more concerned with the RoHS Directive that bans
substances like lead, cadmium, hexavalent chromium, brominated
I would agree with your argument that you need not comply because you are not
connected to the public low voltage supply. Furthermore, the standards you
cite are written for 230V, 50Hz distribution, so your voltage is not even
within the scope of the standard.
John P. Wagner
Regulatory
IEEE 519 is a Recommended Practice. It suggests voltage distortion limits at
the Point of Common Coupling based upon the customer load vs short circuit
current capabillity. It has nothing to do with paroduct harmonics. It is not
a regulation, but electric utilities may adopt it as a company
CISPR 16-4: Uncertainty in EMC Measurements has just been published. This
should give you all the ammunition you need to deal with the issue of how to
include NSA in your uncertainty budget. If 16-4 is not yet available from the
IEC, CISPR/A/355/FDIS is the draft standard upon which it is
B3-D16
Westminster, CO 80234-2726
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com
--
From: Ken Javor[SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:18 PM
To: Wagner, John P (John); michael.sundst...@nokia.com;
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George
The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For systems assembled from
components, the system considered compliant if assembled from compliant
components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral
rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to
Not yet. CISPR/I is working the issue and has 3 CD's in circulation at the
moment.
Nothing yet, however, on non-invasive measurements using current probes and
capacitive voltage clamps -- measurment method C.1.3 and C.1.4. Its on the
agenda for WG3 and hopefully a CD will be forthcoming by
I support John's comments. I would also add that because the standards do not
guarantee error-free or flawless performance, and that immunity is largely a
performance issue, a manufacturer with concerns about the immunity performance
of his product relative to input voltage may, and should,
It depends. If your product is to be located adjacent to the PC in actual
operation, then it is appropriate to include the PC with the EUT. If your
product is more like an Ethernet hub that is not intended to be co-located with
the PC, then the PC can be outside the chamber. I would test it
I think the simple answer is no. The NEC deals primarily with installation
wiring and not with equipment plugged into that wiring. A phrase similar to
where listed equipment is installed is found in many sections of the code,
generally where special installation conditions are acceptable
That's exactly what we do here. Follow the OJ.
John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Strategic Standards.
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com
--
From: Colgan, Chris[SMTP:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com]
Reply
Electric utilities genreate and distribute 3 phase power. At the load,
then, some power conversion strategy is employed to derive 2 phase
power. For instance, by adding a secondary winging on a 3 phase
transformer on phases A and B with 47% of the winding on phase A and 53%
on phase B, the
Actually, 2 phase systems have a phase rotation of 90 degrees, not 180.
Two phase systems have been used for control motors and the like, but
are fairly rare these days. 180 degree rotation between phases is a
center tapped single phase system. The proper terminology is, I
believe, split phase.
I don't know about Part 18, but because the modem connects to the
telecom network, it would have to comply with Part 68.
John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Strategic Standards.
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com
Apart from numerous small changes and clarifications, resulting from
experience/enquiries over the past couple of years there were the
following major items:
Requirements added covering the effect of UV on materials and people.
Added detail regarding use of lasers and LEDs;
Added requirements
This type of testing is already defined and required in CISPR 24.
Some years ago I tested surge tested many PC and minicomputer supplies
using the 1.2/50 (8/20) bi wave 2 ohm source impedance. Most supplies
would tolerate a 2000 to 2500 V pulse without damage. Above that, the
power supply was
Let me take a wild stab at this one.
First, presumably the value of this dummy device is that it convinces
its audience that it indeed is a real security device. Given that, it
seems that the more accurately it mimics the real device the better. If
the real device is CE marked, you probably
I would not interpret the RTTE Directive that way. Its intent is for
equipment directly or indirectly connected to the public switched
network. If ther is no network connection, there is no requirement.
Furthermore, it is the interface to the network that applies. For
instance, PC's on an
There is a manufacturer in the US who makes filters to eliminate low
order harmonic current, particularly the 3rd. The product is made to
mitigate real or imagined harmonic problems, not to meet some harmonic
standard. The product is called 3rd Out I think. It is available as
a plug-in device
Both types of equipment fall under the Low Voltage and EMC Directives. The
RTTE Directive (Radio and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment) applies
only to Termnial equipment. Network equipment has its own EMC Standards EN
300-386 series) and presumably safety as well. As to network
You're right, Gary. ITU K.20 (I believe) specifies testing of telecom ports
connected to the network. The test levels are 1.5kV if primary protection
is present, 4.0 kV if not. The waveform is 10 x 700.
CISPR 24 actually references these test levels in Table 2..
One of the European common
The genesis of this requirement may go back to some of the discussions
regarding 1000-4-5 and later CISPR 24. As I recall, there were some
interests who felt it appropriate to surge test all communication lines. 10
meter length was added to exclude such things as interconnecting RS232
cables to
Yes. A DOC without EN61000-3-3 may be interpreted as incomplete. We are in
the same sitiuation as you -- our products don't cause fluctuations or
fllicker. Nevertheless, we write a test report for EN61000-3-3 (just a
paragraph or so) citing section 6.1 -- and we list EN61000-3-3 on the DOC.
Lame argument! Many of us make products designed exclusively for the
Commercial/industrial market. Our products do not connect directly to the
publlic low voltage distribution systems yet we meet the requirements
because the intent is to protect the low voltage distribution system. In
the case
I'd like to throw my two cents worth in here.
First, compliance with a national/international standard or regulatory
regime does not guarantee adequate product performance or safety. That is
the responsibility of the manufacturer. The standard(s) gives guidance to
achieve that acceptable level
I take some exception to the response below.
Single phase connections between phases either on a delta or wye system do
not have a neutral connection.
There are two grounded delta systems -- corner ground where one phase is
grounded, or center tapped ground on one of the phases (commonly called
Try the US Dept of Commerce. They have a pamphlet titled Electric Current
Abroad which should give you all the information you need. It can be
ordered from their website for $5.00 in hardcopy. I believe it is also
available electronically from the same site.
John P. Wagner
AVAYA
CENELEC prA14 passed amending EN61000-3-2 Class D to include only PC's,
monitors, and TV's. So, if your product is not in any of those categories,
you need not comply with Class D after the doa of the amendment.
Nevertheless, if your product is Class D, the Class D limits are the same
as those
I believe the surge test is applicable. The zener avalanche diode barriers
provide protection to sensitive circuit components, but are the zeners
robust enough to withstand the surge?
If the signal line in question is one which, according to the standard, is
to be surge tested, the presence or
There is an IEC Technical Report IEC61000-3-4 dealing with harmonics of
products drawing over 16 Amps/phase. It does not have the stature of a
standard, but is the preferred evaluation method. IEC TC77 is developing a
standard from this report.
John P. Wagner
Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs
...@matrox.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 12:40 PM
To: Wagner, John P (John); emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Where is 8.2.1 in EN55022 ?
Hello John,
Thank you for your comment. The only problem is that the BS EN55022:1998
that I order through Global Engineering Documents
When EN55022 was adopted, there were several common technical
modifications to CISPR 22. One of those changes was to delete subclauses
8.2.1, 8.2.2 and 8.2.3.
In the EN, the following paragraph was added to 8.2
The operational conditions of the EUT shall be determined by the
manufacturer
Try BHS International.
Their website is http://www.bhsintl.com.
Their email address is: bo...@bhsintl.com
John P. Wagner
Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs
11900 N. Pecos St, Room 2F58
Denver CO 80234
email: johnwag...@lucent.com
phone: 303 538-4241
fax: 303 538-5211
--
From:
At the final stages of development of IEC 61000-3-2, TC77 WG1 responsible
for the document made an editorial change without review by voting bodies.
That change was to add the statement This section is a Product family
standard. With the exception of a few questionable characters leading WG1,
no
CISPR 24 allows the transition from conducted to radiated immunity anywhere
from 30MHz to 80MHz.. The European implementation, EN55024 does not. The
4-6, 4-3 boundary is at 80MHz.
The Japanese did extensive testing for equivalence of RF field exposure to
current injection. They found that
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