Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Dear Bernd & Charlie, Thanks for your advice!! For the time being, we have to put the safety instructions with the unit. Best regards, Scott On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 at 15:54, Dürrer Bernd wrote: > Dear Scott, > > > > I agree with Charlie Blackham’s conclusions on instructions in electronic >

[PSES] AW: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Dear Scott, I agree with Charlie Blackham's conclusions on instructions in electronic format embedded in the device. I am not aware of any plans to amend LVD and RED to align their requirements on instructions with the new Machinery regulation. However, as the monetary and environmental costs

[PSES] AW: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

Hi Chuck, my understanding of the Chinese regulation for CCC is that it is only applicable to finished products that are listed in the catalogue (like an external switch mode power supply that may be brought to market as a separate product) or parts of finished products that are accessible to

Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Dear Bernd, Although LVD and RED are modern directives, they are considered old compared with MR issued in 2023. Could the view on instructions in electronic format be aligned all together one day? Thanks and regards, Scott On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 at 13:27, Scott Xe wrote: > Dear Bernd, > >

Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Scott Requirements on instructions to be in printed format are often included/implied in safety standards – for example EN 62368-1:2014: F.4 Instructions When information with regard to safety is required according to this standard, this information shall be given in an instruction for

Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Dear Bernd, Thanks for your good references! The LVD and RED do not decline the instructions in electronic format. What about those instructions embedded in the ROM as the memory is not expensive as before? For example, mobile phones, TVs, etc. Regards, Scott On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 15:14,

[PSES] 2022 IEEE EMC SIPI Symposium proceedings

I attended the 2022 Symposium, and have a copy of the proceedings – but somehow the index file got deleted. Can anyone share that file with me? I am specifically trying to find a presentation on 5G immunity, I think from someone at IBM. Thanks, [cid:image931841.jpg@69E5E534.76AC205E] David

[PSES] AW: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

Hi Doug, please be aware that line cords and plugs are subject to mandatory CCC certification in the People’s Republic of China (cf. CHINA QUALITY CERTIFICATION CENTRE-Notice and Bulletin (cqc.com.cn)). This means even if your

[PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Hi Amund, In the European Union, it depends on the Directive that is applicable for your product. Both the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU (L_2014096EN.01035701.xml (europa.eu), Article 6, Point 7, Article

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

No. I don't see so many EU documents as others here do, and it is very difficult, as you know, to find a document when you don't know a document title to look for. I am remembering information posted here quite a long time ago. On 2023-08-13 17:56, Amund Westin wrote: Yes, I was thinking

[PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Yes, I was thinking that a short paper guide would help. URL link is important as you say, and QR are actually for advanced mobile users. Have you seen this issue been discussed in “Blue Guide” or other EU documents? Fra: John Woodgate Sendt: 13. august 2023 18:43 Til:

Re: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

I believe that in Europe, it is not allowed. Current practice seems to be to include with the product a short  'User Guide' or similar, which includes the safety information required by the relevant safety standard, and the DOC(s), together with a text link of the URL of the full User Manual.

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Amund,We at Tarana Wireless started using QR code to get access to latest user guide info to install and other relevant info.No issues so far with this process in place.Christopher On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 09:01:41 AM PDT, Amund Westin wrote: Can’t find info about this in the

[PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

Can’t find info about this in the Blue Guide Fra: Amund Westin Sendt: 13. august 2023 17:57 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR To avoid a lot of paper use, it is possible to leave a short instruction with the product

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

I really hope not. See my story 'How to lose half a million dollars': /April 2 2014 From: Compliance (JH) To: MJ54 Team Leader (BB) Subject: MJ54 tests Not good news. Model for testing (MFT) failed several EMC tests, and there are safety issues as well. Details in a following message. Can we

[PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

To avoid a lot of paper use, it is possible to leave a short instruction with the product to enter a web site or use affixed QR code (on product) to get access to the User manual and other relevant documentation? Should such a symbol Link https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iso:grs:7000:3500 also be

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

I wonder why industry is spending so much on EMC compliance. Is it because the development teams are leaving this work to the final phase of the design, where changes are expensive and schedules slip ? Ralph From: doug emcesd.com Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2023 8:57 PM To:

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. But in the case of ESD testing, IEC 61000-4-2 is not a very good standard. We knew this in 1996 where work done by myself and others showed that the waveform needs to have a di/dt spec to rule out the uncontrolled high frequency ringing many simulators

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

I suspect that folks who have been directly involved with air-discharge ESD can appreciate it's inherent, operator influenced, uncertainly. Having run both internal and third party EMC test labs, I recognize that few things are done "perfectly" (whatever "perfect" is), but I've always

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

The basic question is, "How good is good enough?" Risk standards for product safety address that question to some extent, but it applies to every lab measurement, whether the applicable standards (or regulations) consider it or not. Best regards, John McBain On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 2:26 AM John

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

But crossing t's and dotting i's is exactly what is required by competence standards, including the several ISO 170XX series. Furthermore, standards specify performance of test equipment, if possible, and only if that is not possible, they specify design. If that is not possible, they specify

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

No way am I jumping in the middle of this debate, but it is extremely useful in another way. A few observations: ESD is by its very nature a chaotic event (air discharge more so than contact). It is not entirely surprising that someone who has spent decades working on something would

Re: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

Yes, I have had China Customs open a shipment of 10 powered speakers and find one power cord was not from an approved manufacture on our critical components list. We were short one cord set so I had used an engineering sample… Had right plug and cordage, just not on our products components

Re: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

Manufacturers cannot side-step liability by claiming ignorance. The manufacture is solely responsible for any product they place on the market, with or without the correct power cord. From: Douglas Powell Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 7:53 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re:

Re: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

How would the customs folks in those countries check appliance line cords ? Do they open boxes, pull contents, and inspect? If the USA plug is not rated for higher voltage, does it really present a hazard ? (compliance vs safety) The USA/Canadian plugs have a LOTS of creepage distance

Re: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

Yes, I did find this topic on the EMC-PSTC archive. And yet it seems to come up over and over. Best regards, Doug Douglas E Powell Laporte, Colorado USA On Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 9:39 AM John Woodgate wrote: > I seem to remember this subject being extensively discussed about two > years ago.

[PSES] PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

It maybe cheaper/less custom issues if local distributor can purchase line cord from the local market. Power supply should be certified for the country it is used in. Yes Brazil and South Africa line chord certification Leadtime are long and costly. Australia also has some conditions for

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

I didn’t say most labs are bad. Errors do happen and for me almost every lab I have used has made a mistake. These errors are rare but do happen and the effect of a single error can be very costly. One lab made an especially bad mistake for a small company that engaged me that cost the company

Re: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

I seem to remember this subject being extensively discussed about two years ago. The bans on 'alien' cords are indeed enforced, and some authorities were extremely unhelpful in finding solutions, e.g. not allowing products to be shipped without cords, which were added in the country of

Re: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

I believe you are correct. Simply shipping the wrong cord types to certain locations is actually prohibited, and in general, including incorrect types could be viewed as endorsement of their use in other areas. A thing that should be simple, now gets complicated. On occasion, I've heard

Re: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

Hello Doug - Wow I had no idea that this issue existed. Thanks for bringing it up! As I understand that the inclusion of incorrect cords in a package spreads the incorrect conclusion that ALL of the cords are suitable for use. Did I get that right? On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 8:00 AM Douglas Powell

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

That's right. It is good to call attention to problems that may well be deeply hidden or not recognized as a possibility, but it is necessary to concentrate on the facts and leave out peripheral matters that don't help to deal with the issue. On 2023-08-11 14:28, Larry K. Stillings wrote: You

[PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

All, I was talking with a client recently about shipping line cords to various countries around the world and how some do not allow the incorrect cords within a shipment while others do. Brazil, as far as I know, does not permit incorrect cordage. Argentina, Australia, and China (PRC) are all

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

Well said, Larry. Thanks, Jack Murphy DEKA Research & Development Corporation 340 Commercial Street Manchester, NH 03101 603-669-5139 (x6669) jmur...@dekaresearch.com From: Larry K. Stillings Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 9:29 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

Doug, Your once-a-year lab bashing is offensive, some years you do it more and honestly I'm tired of not saying something about it. It's especially offensive to people like myself whom has been running test labs for the last 33 years and pride myself in the work we have provided to our

[PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems

Hi All, Just a couple of thoughts on what a good lab should do for ESD testing and how to protect yourself as a client from test problems. 1. Bring an Ohmmeter with you to the lab and measure the resistance from the Horizontal Coupling Plane to the Ground Reference Plane. It should be

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

Cord-connected equipment? From: Elliott Martinson Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2023 12:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change If it were to become a leakage current issue, I’d wonder whether the parasitic inductance

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

If it were to become a leakage current issue, I'd wonder whether the parasitic inductance [i.e., enclosed loop area] in the current paths through the Y-Caps could be reduced, as that can often be much more meaningful than the actual capacitance value. If package choice and layout were already

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

Hi, Brian- More margin is good but be sure to check that your leakage/touch current is still acceptable. Sometimes striking that balance means living with a little less emissions margin than an EMC guy would prefer. :) Good luck, Chet Summers From: Brian Gregory Sent: Thursday, August 10,

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

Certification activities in the USA are handled by TCBs. Most test labs either have a separate TCB group, or work with a specific TCB for approvals. You should work with a lab to determine what tests need to be repeated, and take the data. Based on the new data the lab can determine if it is a

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

Yes, we increased the Y-Caps to get more margin. And we did!So, to qualify for a Class 1 permissive change, we'd need to show before & after data ? Applying for a Class 2 permissive change, means FCC will look only at the latest data to be sure it passes? Colorado Brian -- Original

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

Brian, Section 2.948 of Part 47 of the CFR requires the lab be accredited when doing certification testing. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-2/subpart-J/subject-group-ECFRd5ad3b739dbf27a/section-2.948 As for whether it is a Class 1 or Class 2 Permissive change

Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

What are you changing about the Y-caps? If it's just a new supplier and the caps conform to the required component standard, there is no degradation. Reducing he capacitance would be a degradation for EMC but not for safety. Who determines the class is the person who has all the necessary

[PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change

Hello EMC experts, A question came up today about filing new results to FCC for our legacy product. 1. If the filing is only for FCC, then the lab providing the report does not need A2LA accreditation,2. If the filing is for a safety report, then the lab does need A2LA accreditation. Have I

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

Scott, I’m not sure how long ago Amazon stopped carrying lithium cells but I needed some for a project and tried to buy from what looked like the highest quality vendor, not just based on price. Hard to tell on an online store who is good or bad especially when you don’t recognize any

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

In my career, I investigated (in the USA) a large number of field failures (mostly fires) of safety-certified products. The claims were against us as the manufacturer, not the certifier. The claimant or his insurance would hire an investigator to identify the cause of the fire, where

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

The flood of products using counterfeit marking from China renders our efforts virtually useless and hampers our ability to manufacture competitively. On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:02 PM Scott Xe wrote: > * This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: > scott...@gmail.com * >

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

UL1973 and UL1642 do a pretty through job of addressing functional safety of batteries and safety of the individual cells. Perhaps some LiON batteries are finding their way into the USA market without 3rd party certification. How to prevent uncertified or unlisted products from reaching the

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

Dear Ted, I couldn't agree with your views more. It is crucial for us to tackle these issues, despite the existing regulations and testing standards in place. The regulatory authorities and enforcement bodies must thoroughly assess why these measures have proven ineffective in preventing the

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

All new regulations address the issues from the online and offline stores. Let's see how to improve the current situation. Expecting the online stores to implement it proves ineffective. Hope the gap will be closed soon. Regards, Scott On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 at 22:05, Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wrote:

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

It happens before COVID-19 and becomes obvious due to more popular usage during & post COVID-19. As far as I recall, Amazon has taken down this type of products from their websites and asked for test reports and DoC. UL also supported the creation of a new set of standards for this type of

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

Hi Ted Thank you for the interesting read on NYC deliveries. With the size of the NYC food market, the economic forces must be immense. Economic markets have a way of creating solutions. In this market, the first person with a good solution will win big! Seriously interesting problem! On

Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Hi John, Sure - I can see that for equipment approved to 508A. But this equipment is designed and built to NFPA 79 and EN 60204-1. In this particular case I’m only involved in assisting the client in CE Marking the machines, so that’s the focus. Doug Nix “All code is guilty until proven

Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

UL requires us to apply a 'UPS Voltage Present When Off' label for UL 508A mobile carts we build with a UPS installed.  Inspector considers it a safety violation if the label is not on the access panel or door. John John Cochran Compliance Manager

Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Doug, a quick search through NFPA70 (USA national electrical code) says in article 645 Information Technology Equipment: 645.16 Marking. Each unit of an information technology system supplied by a branch circuit shall be provided with a manufacturer's nameplate, which shall also include the

Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Doug In the past I’ve worked on control cabinets used in Semi-Conductor plant equipment and this is an extract from an earlier version of SEMI S2 I have: 13.5 Uninterruptable Power Supplies (UPSs) — This section applies to UPSs with outputs greater than: 30 volts rms, 42.4 volts peak; 60 volts

Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Wouldn't this fall under the requirement from 60204-1 clause 5.3.5 for Excepted Circuits? "Permanent warning label(s) shall be appropriately placed in proximity to the operating means of the supply disconnecting device to draw attention to the hazard" Best regards, Mark Stultz | CMSE(r) |

Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

You could decide not to search, just put a label on anyway. I looked at the Preview of IEC 60947-1, but did not find anything. There is a 7th edition in preparation. On 2023-08-02 22:24, Doug Nix wrote: Colleagues, I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel.

Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Hello, Couple of thoughts. We might consider the UPS to be a second power source for the machine, which may warrant signage (multiple power sources). Or, similar to condensation heaters for machine enclosures that are powered from the disconnect mains, in the past we’ve added signage to

[PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Colleagues, I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel. The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the disconnecting device is switched off. I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that requires a label on the

Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing! Has anybody heard any UK thoughts about how the UK will approach the new Machinery Regulation, which replaces the Machinery Directive for CE marking? Mike Sherman Sherman PSC LLC > On 08/01/2023 8:17 AM CDT Lauren Crane >

Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

Thanks, Matthew, this is very helpful! Doug Nix d...@ieee.org +1 (519) 729-5704 > On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:41, Matthew Wilson | GBE > wrote: > > https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation > > Reporting: >

Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

An unusually sensible decision. If it happens in the future that the European requirements for a particular product family become unacceptable in UK, an exception can be made just for those products, leaving CE valid for everything else. On 2023-08-01 10:41, Matthew Wilson | GBE wrote:

Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

Thanks very much for sharing this! Best Regards, - Lauren Crane **Sent from mobile phone. Please excuse typos, brevity, etc.** Confidential – Limited Access and Use From: Matthew Wilson | GBE Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 4:41:12 AM To:

[PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation Reporting: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a picture of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Taiwan BSMI Product Labelling

Hello Cecil, Yes the product needs to be labelled in simplified Chinese, also the product manual. The Chinese will be needed for any safety related verbiage such as volts, amps etc. and product ‘type’. (main function) Symbols can be used as an alternate. The English can be shown, as long as the

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

And raising concern about batteries starting fires: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cargo-ship-fire-netherlands-ev-electric-vehicle-battery-north-sea-freemantle-highway/ The cause is NOT known but it MAY have been started in an electric car - not confirmed. Best regards, John McBain On Fri, Jul

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

When I worked for a manufacturer, only two countries in Europe stopped shipments of products to confirm we had done the testing required to apply the CE Mark. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the products that had fires were bought online from sellers on eBay or similar online services.

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

I can give additional background on the reason why these fires have become common in New York. A large number of residents of New York City use delivery services for goods and food, such as Uber-Eats, DoorDash, and GrubHub. The adoption of these delivery services accelerated during the COVID

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

The charity is often none too strong on technicalities, except for the articles by electrically-qualified people. The big problem with third-party testing is the legal exposure of the test houses to actions for damages. The premiums could be enormous and unsustainable. However, the position

[PSES] -- Laboratory Scheduling Software Options

Hello folks, We are hitting the limits of our calendar system in terms of being able to easily allocate resources (both human and test facility) efficiently. The problem mostly manifests in terms of "who is using resource x at the moment? Can we fit this other work in?" We want to be able

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

Matthew I think the issue is, again, one of enforcement – the UK General Product Safety Regulations impose requirements on both manufacturers and importers, so there is existing legislation that could be used. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

[PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27th July might be of interest. "Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks, heavy machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a charity [UK based Electrical Safety First]

Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

Let's keep in mind that the table from EN 55035 (actually from CISPR 35) is from an Informative Annex and is not a part of the Normative requirements. That said, it does provide some useful information. The requirement in CISPR 35 from 80 MHz to 1 GHz is 3 V/m. This provides a reasonable level

Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

Hello All, I am wondering if the 20 V/m level was borrowed from IEEE C37.90.2, which is referenced in UL CCN NRGU for Protective Relays. The IEEE C37.90.x series is one of the industry standards for items associated with protecting and control of the electrical grid. It does not seem quite

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

The exposure limits according to the ICNIRP depends on frequency, of course. >From 1hz to 300hz the Occupational limits are like 20kV/m for E-Field and 40k to 200uT. >From 3khz to 10Mhz the limit is 170V/m (100uT). For the General Public (up to 24 hours a day), the limit is 83V/m (27uT). For

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

The EM field exposure limits are not always in standards: in Europe they are in a European Council document based on Commission-funded research (ICNIRP). I don't recall any limits as low as 10 V/m. On 2023-07-27 19:07, Richard Nute wrote: I’m a product safety engineer.  This discussion is

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

Some thirty years ago, the keynote speaker at an IEEE EMC symposium in the USA was a noted medical researcher working on the long term health effects of exposure to EM fields (neurological as opposed to simply thermal effects). In substance, what he said was we evolved to live with certain

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

I'm a product safety engineer. This discussion is based upon a safety standard specifying a limit for the accessible electric field strength. Doug Smith said: "These days we think 10 V/m is dangerous." See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3553569/

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] RE: Clearances >30 kHz

Ryan Table 10 is fof frequencies < 30kHz. Temporary overvoltage is at mains frequency. Therefore in most cases your input for table 10 is TOV. Best regards Boštjan Poslano iz Outlook za Android Od: Ryan Jazz Poslano: sreda, julij 26,

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] RE: Clearances >30 kHz

Hello Boštjan, Appreciate your reply. I have since learned that Table 10 and Table 11 are for the Working Voltages. Table 14 is what you mentioned, Withstand Voltage (Transient) Scott, Thank you for your reply also. Sincerely, Ryan Jazz Ryan Jayasinghe Regulatory Compliance Engineer

[PSES] Taiwan BSMI Product Labelling

Hello Colleagues, I need to confirm that the BSMI Taiwan product label needs to be in Chinese for the Taiwan market? Thanks. Cecil - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To

Re: [PSES] Clearances >30 kHz

Dear Ryan, Table 10 - input is your temporary overvoltage. Normally 2000Vpk for mains voltages up to 250Vac Table 11 - input is your working voltage Table 14 - input is your transient voltage - defined by OVC (for OVC II 2500Vpk). So table 11 brings you very low value and normally table 10 and

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

I don’t see 100 V/m. Assuming an omni pattern, 0.5 W peak power and using, E = √(30•ERP) / r the phone would need to be within a few centimeters of the observation point, and in that close the distance scaling assumption in that equation breaks down. -- Ken Javor (256) 650-5261

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

Hi All, My observation is that a cell phone at max power, close to the product, generates voltages and currents in the product that are on the order of what a 100 V/m far field would induce! I have seen many manifestations of this including making a product permanently non-functional.

Re: [PSES] Clearances >30 kHz

Hi Ryan, Clarification at the end of 5.4.2.2 (before the tables) indicates that which table you use is dependent on the frequency of the associated circuit. The implication is that you could have some circuits use Table 10 and some circuits use Table 11. It seems appropriate to use Table 11 for

Re: [PSES] Clearances >30 kHz

Remarkable difference between 29.9 kHz and 30.1 kHz! On 2023-07-25 23:39, Ryan Jazz wrote: Dear Members, Hope you can help me understand the requirement for the clearance needed between the bottom PCB of power supply to metal chassis. Looking up UL 62368-1 Third Edition, and using the

[PSES] Clearances >30 kHz

Dear Members, Hope you can help me understand the requirement for the clearance needed between the bottom PCB of power supply to metal chassis. Looking up UL 62368-1 Third Edition, and using the 'Voltage up to an including peak' of 2000 V for overvoltage category II Table 10 for <30 kHz. I see

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

The residential level of 3m V/m was in IEC 1000-4-3 predates portable phones, WiFi, Bluetooth and all the other mobile and portable transmitters widely in use today. The 20+ V/m field strengths in these standards are what is obtained from a cellular phone at maximum power, or WiFi device, at

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

Hi Brian, In IEC 61000-4-3 the level is defined as the unmodulated rms field strength. The modulation (1kHz 80% AM) is applied symmetrically around that level. >From memory this means that the peak is 5.1dB higher than the level. The opposite is true in ISO 11452-2 for automotive where the

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

Yes. The standards need to allow for possibilities. I have about a 3 dB gain antenna that is about a meter away from the charger port. It transmits about 15 watts at 144.39 MHz to send out an APRS position packet. I recently bought a PHEV, although my 2 minute timer is not yet installed, but

Re: [PSES] Order of attenuators

Hi All, It turns out the signal generator has an average output of only mW, but a peak power of 5000W or so. This is a small battery powered hand-held EFT like pulse generator, from Fischer Custom Communications, that I use for circuit troubleshooting. It will deliver thousands of Watts of

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

Piling on, while one may compute very high field intensities from say a mobile phone or other such microwave handheld transmitter, these field intensities will not illuminate a 1.5 m square area at such levels.  If such levels are in fact justified, it might make sense to reduce the required

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

While the vehicle is on charge or vey near a charger? On 2023-07-24 23:12, Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wrote: John, I have transmitter that transmits on a VHF Frequency about 2 minutes after I shut the car off. A number of setups allow a person to use a hand held device to access a higher powered

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

John, I have transmitter that transmits on a VHF Frequency about 2 minutes after I shut the car off. A number of setups allow a person to use a hand held device to access a higher powered transceiver that is in the car. It's fairly common setup for highway patrol vehicles, due to distance from

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

AM transmissions obviously have different amplitudes when modulated than when not.  Above 1 GHz, where transmissions are primarily digitally encoded (phase/frequency shift modulation techniques where the amplitude is constant), I don’t believe this is the case.  So it may be that above (for

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

There are, but 20 V/m still is a very high value. One wouldn't expect a transmitter to be used in a car while it is on charge. On 2023-07-24 22:57, Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wrote: Wi-Fi and cell phones are not the only transmitters near cars. There are police, fire and ham radio transceivers in

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

Wi-Fi and cell phones are not the only transmitters near cars. There are police, fire and ham radio transceivers in cars. Some of which are on gain antennas and can be remotely accessed to transmit. Not to mention hand held transceivers that might walk by. Jim, WB8VSU On July 24, 2023

Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength

The reference for 20 V/m to EV chargers comes from UL 2231-2. This is not a medical standard, but Annex A does call out the medical standard 60601-1-2 as a reference, as well as CENELEC 50204. We can't figure out why; cell phones produce less than half that, and our WiFi transmitter is

Re: [PSES] Order of attenuators

6, 3, 20. The calculations are left as an exercise for thereader.  On 2023-07-24 20:14, doug emcesd.com wrote: Hi All, Here is a puzzle. I have a signal source of average power less than 10 mW and I want to put three attenuators on the output, 20 dB, 6 dB and 3 dB.  All are two Watt

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