[Emc-users] Found info and software for the Smithy 622.

[Gregg Eshelman]

Information at the bottom of this page.
http://www.smithy.com/product-support/historicalmachines

Software
http://www.smithy.com/eztrolupdates/dists/

Those among other things popped up simply by plugging 622 into the 
search box on the Smithy site.

Smithy might be able to get you back to a working original software 
setup. Then you can save that hard drive and use another for 
experimenting with LCNC.

As someone else said, we charge extra, so send a check to... ;-)

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD

[Peter Blodow]

Hello Gene,

R,S and T are just the traditional names of the incoming 3-phase mains 
supply, very common over here, but out of date. They were replaced by 
L1, L2, L3. This comes from the usual motor or transformer hookup. U,V, 
W were the motor (or transf.) leads while X,Y,Z were the ends of the 
rotor windings (in case of brushed rotor for soft start and power 
control) or transf. secondary.

It does not matter how you get those big capacitors charged, from two or 
three phases or from a 500 V DC net as some big machine shops provide. 
Just connect your mains and measure the resulting DC voltage. The 
following switching supply will never know where the DC voltage comes 
from, unless it's to low or has too  much ripple, maybe.

Peter


Am 29.01.2016 23:04, schrieb Gene Heskett:
> The booklet shows 2 different setups including the names of the 
> terminals, which are differently named in the single phase drawing. No 
> common names are used, L-N for single, and R,S,T for the 3 phase 
> setup, and the terminals on this one are labeled R, S, and T. I'll see 
> what the vendor has to say. If he hasn't resolved it eith saying do as 
> you've said, or agreed to send me the right one with a prepayed return 
> sticker for the wrong one, by Feb 4th, ebay will step in and see if 
> they can get it fixed. I suspect that in the end, you are right. But 
> the smallest 2 pole breaker I could find at Lowes was a 20 amp. 100%+ 
> Overkill. But I did get it. So we'll see what happens in the next week.


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Jon Elson]

On 01/30/2016 11:03 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
>
>
I have an old version of Bobcad/CAM, but it is cumbersome to 
use, so I rarely use it.
Instead, I have written a bunch of c programs that write 
efficient G-code for the types of things I frequently do.  
These include milling out holes and rectangular shapes in 
panels.  I have variants that do a real pocket with a flat 
bottom, and "trepanning" routines that mill a cutout 
slightly undersize, allow the slug to drop out and then 
finish the cutout to final dimensions.

You just enter a few numbers for position and size of the 
feature, tool size, feedrates and depth, and it writes the 
G-code.  Then, I string a bunch of these together with a 
text editor, and there it is.

I have a few of these programs listed, with source code 
downloads at :
http://pico-systems.com/gcode.html

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Firmware for Mesa 5i20+7i39+7i33TA+Opto22

[Chris Kelley]

Peter,

The firmware file is SVTP6_7I39.BIT.

The excerpt from the ini file is:

[HOSTMOT2]
DRIVER=hm2_pci
BOARD=5i20
CONFIG="firmware=hm2/5i20/SVTP6_7I39.BIT num_encoders=3 num_pwmgens=1
num_3pwmgens=2 num_stepgens=1"
[EMC]


Right now, if I comment out all the lines in the hal file that touch any of
the stepgen or pwmgen pins, the axis gui will start but there are no pins
created for the pwmgen or the stepgen. While the correct number of encoders
are created, the third (spindle through the 7i33TA) isn't showing any
movement when the spindle is turned by hand.


>From what I can tell from reading the 5i20/7i39/7i33TA manuals, hal file,
and looking at the wiring:

P2 on the 5i20 goes to the 7i39 and uses the pinout in the 7i39 manual.
This runs the X and Y BLDC servos and uses two of the encoders and the 2
3-phase pwmgens from the config line in the ini.

P3 on the 5i20 goes to the 7i33TA and uses the pinout in the 7i33TA manual.
This is used for the analog signal to the spindle drive and the spindle
encoder and uses the third encoder and the one regular pwmgen from the
config line in the ini. If the 5i20 doesn't have enough firmware space for
the other 3 pwms and encoders on the 7i33, no worries, I wasn't really
planning on using them anyway.

P3 on the 5i20 goes to a OPTO22 board. GPIO pins 48 and 49 are used for
step and direction from the stepgen. In the HAL file, they get set to open
drain and inverted but no other connections are made. Physically those two
pins go to the setp/dir pins on the Gecko drive that runs the Z-axis. The
remaining GPIO pins, 50 -71, are just used for regular field I/O (limit
switches, relays, solenoids, etc.).


-Chris


On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016, Chris Kelley wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 21:18:54 -0600
> > From: Chris Kelley 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Firmware for Mesa 5i20+7i39+7i33TA+Opto22
> >
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > I recently "inherited" a little Smithy 622 CNC mill that had already been
> > converted to LinuxCNC.
> >
> > The machine has BLDC servos on the X and Y (run by the 7i39 on P1 of the
> > 5i20), a spindle encoder and analog drive (run from the 7i33TA on P2 of
> the
> > 5i20), and a stepper for the Z-axis (run along with the field I/O from
> the
> > Opto22 board on P3 of the 5i20).
> >
> > Before tonight, everything was working great. So, naturally, I had to
> mess
> > with it.
> >
> > The PC was running 2.5 on Ubuntu 10, so I decided to reload the machine
> > with a clean LinuxCNC 2.7/Debian Wheezy install (from the .iso).
> >
> > After the install, I copied over the (previously) working ini/hal config
> > files (attached). But, now when I try to start up LinuxCNC, I get an
> error
> > that the hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.enable pin cannot be found.
> >
> >> From what I can tell, even though the config is calling for 3 encoders,
> 2
> > 3-phase PWMs, 1 regular PWM, and 1 stepgen, only the encoders and 3-phase
> > PWMs are getting created.
> >
> > The only thing I can think of is that the previous owner was using a
> > modified version of the SVTP6_7I39.BIT firmware that allowed for the
> > creation of stepgens and regular pwmgens.
> >
> > Sadly, I did not think to back up the firmware folder before wiping the
> old
> > install.
> >
> > Am I missing something, or do I need some sort of custom firmware file?
> >
> > -Chris
> >
>
> What was the name of the firmware file? (should be in the hal or ini file)
> If I made the bitfile, I will have the PIN_XXX source to remake it (and the
> firmware name will help find the correct one)
> If not, the hal file will have some clues to the pinout that will help
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Firmware for Mesa 5i20+7i39+7i33TA+Opto22

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016, Chris Kelley wrote:

> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 21:18:54 -0600
> From: Chris Kelley 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] Firmware for Mesa 5i20+7i39+7i33TA+Opto22
> 
> Greetings all,
>
> I recently "inherited" a little Smithy 622 CNC mill that had already been
> converted to LinuxCNC.
>
> The machine has BLDC servos on the X and Y (run by the 7i39 on P1 of the
> 5i20), a spindle encoder and analog drive (run from the 7i33TA on P2 of the
> 5i20), and a stepper for the Z-axis (run along with the field I/O from the
> Opto22 board on P3 of the 5i20).
>
> Before tonight, everything was working great. So, naturally, I had to mess
> with it.
>
> The PC was running 2.5 on Ubuntu 10, so I decided to reload the machine
> with a clean LinuxCNC 2.7/Debian Wheezy install (from the .iso).
>
> After the install, I copied over the (previously) working ini/hal config
> files (attached). But, now when I try to start up LinuxCNC, I get an error
> that the hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.enable pin cannot be found.
>
>> From what I can tell, even though the config is calling for 3 encoders, 2
> 3-phase PWMs, 1 regular PWM, and 1 stepgen, only the encoders and 3-phase
> PWMs are getting created.
>
> The only thing I can think of is that the previous owner was using a
> modified version of the SVTP6_7I39.BIT firmware that allowed for the
> creation of stepgens and regular pwmgens.
>
> Sadly, I did not think to back up the firmware folder before wiping the old
> install.
>
> Am I missing something, or do I need some sort of custom firmware file?
>
> -Chris
>

What was the name of the firmware file? (should be in the hal or ini file)
If I made the bitfile, I will have the PIN_XXX source to remake it (and the 
firmware name will help find the correct one)
If not, the hal file will have some clues to the pinout that will help

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 January 2016 12:03:41 Chris Albertson wrote:

> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for
> options.
>
> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small
> parts (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be
> designed for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and
> arcs and later add refinements that have more organic shapes. 
> Qualities are as much as a half dozen each.
>
> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
> drawings and these can be saved in several different file formats.
>
> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there
> other options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems
> STL has no notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles. 
> Does this matter?
>
> I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
> controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes
> is fine, as I've had long experience with both.

Generally, for such projects, I write my own.  With a copy of the gcode 
docs in front of you, its not that hard altho I have had to resort to 
asking this list for help with the G2/G3 stuff. Andy has been amazingly 
helpful in that regard. So have others, giving me insightful ways to get 
it done, and I thank them all.

I make very heavy use of subroutines and both local and global named 
variables in doing so as a step and repeat isn't needed to be separately 
coded each time, just position the machine and make the call,  All of 
the code to carve the mahogany for the major boards of a copy of that 
Green & Green style blanket chest on the front cover of the Dec 2014 
issue of Fine WoodWorking might be over 1000 LOC, but I don't think so.  
That is for 2 different widths of boards, and mirroring the pattern used 
for the side board for the end boards.  And that includes all the 
assembly screw holes and pockets for the ebony buttons that hide the 
screws.  The code that carves those buttons in sandwich baggie 
quantities will bring it to perhaps 1400 LOC total.
At some point, I should tarball the lot of that and post it on my web 
page, in the sig below.  That FWIW is actually this machine.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.

I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
(most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as a
half dozen each.

I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D drawings
and these can be saved in several different file formats.

I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has no
notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
matter?

I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
fine, as I've had long experience with both.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] VFD

[Dave Cole]

Ha ha.ha ...

So what you are saying is that Gene should have bought a Chinese VFD and 
Spindle from a US distributor who buys Chinese VFDs and Spindles in 
larger quantities from the same cheap Chinese supplier?Or  what ?

If you have a better solution/source for inexpensive Spindles we would 
all like to hear about it.  :-)

Dave

On 1/29/2016 8:37 PM, Len Shelton wrote:
> ---
>
>   I'll see what the vendor has to say.  If he hasn't resolved it eith
>   saying do as you've said, or agreed to send me the right one with a
>   prepayed return sticker for the wrong one, by Feb 4th, ebay will step in
>   and see if they can get it fixed.
>
> ---
>
> So you cheaped out and bought a Chinese VFD and spindle from an eBay seller, 
> and you wanna hold his feet to the fire because the collets are metric and 
> manual is in Chinese and possibly incomplete or inaccurate? Thats your fault 
> dude. Own it.
>
>> Len
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] VFD

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 January 2016 11:47:43 Dave Cole wrote:

> Ha ha.ha ...

That was my response too Dave, and it took a huge effort to not ask Len 
what was in his morming cheerios besides milk.
>
> So what you are saying is that Gene should have bought a Chinese VFD
> and Spindle from a US distributor who buys Chinese VFDs and Spindles
> in larger quantities from the same cheap Chinese supplier?Or  what
> ?
>
> If you have a better solution/source for inexpensive Spindles we would
> all like to hear about it.  :-)
>
> Dave

Yup, 40 Rogers on that good buddy, speak up if you have something 
constructive to say, we're all listening.

FWIW I've found the vendor quite knowledgable and helpful. So all I have 
to do, in between working on a furniture project, is run a 240 line to 
it, hook it up and test it, with the motor strapped to someting suitably 
massive. So all I have to do is find enough working back to do that. If 
I would have known I was going to live this long I would have taken far 
better care of it. Unfortunately, I've been a git-r-done type, hurting 
myself too many times over the last 81 years. Now I am paying the price 
of such foolishness.  The MRI's aren't at all pretty.

I'll not polute the list with more echo's on Len's msg.

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design 
(formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of these 
apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS - as god 
intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much the only 
thing I run under Windows.

A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM and 
made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it another try 
(had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now begun to use 
Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been making parts for a 
cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet, but do intend to.  
After months of using it I believe I am not going to renew my maintenance of 
Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very reluctant to use a cloud-based 
application but I am quite pleased with Fusion 360 and have never had issues 
relating to it’s cloud-based model (you can do most things when offline as 
well).  I am constantly amazed at the features in the software as well as the 
integrated HSMWorks-based CAM software that is available for free in this 
package.   It is also constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature 
and bug release at least once a month. sometime twice a month.

I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed with 
their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is CAD only 
and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less and less but 
occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.   You can purchase 
commercial CAM packages for it.

I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
-Tom

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
> 
> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as a
> half dozen each.
> 
> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D drawings
> and these can be saved in several different file formats.
> 
> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
> options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has no
> notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
> matter?
> 
> I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
> controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
> fine, as I've had long experience with both.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] Firmware for Mesa 5i20+7i39+7i33TA+Opto22

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 January 2016 01:53:31 Rafael wrote:

> On 01/29/2016 07:18 PM, Chris Kelley wrote:
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > I recently "inherited" a little Smithy 622 CNC mill that had already
> > been converted to LinuxCNC.
> >
> > The machine has BLDC servos on the X and Y (run by the 7i39 on P1 of
> > the 5i20), a spindle encoder and analog drive (run from the 7i33TA
> > on P2 of the 5i20), and a stepper for the Z-axis (run along with the
> > field I/O from the Opto22 board on P3 of the 5i20).
> >
> > Before tonight, everything was working great. So, naturally, I had
> > to mess with it.
>
> We charge double for cases like this.
>
> > The PC was running 2.5 on Ubuntu 10, so I decided to reload the
> > machine with a clean LinuxCNC 2.7/Debian Wheezy install (from the
> > .iso).
> >
> > After the install, I copied over the (previously) working ini/hal
> > config files (attached). But, now when I try to start up LinuxCNC, I
> > get an error that the hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.enable pin cannot be
> > found.
> >
> >>From what I can tell, even though the config is calling for 3
> >> encoders, 2
> >
> > 3-phase PWMs, 1 regular PWM, and 1 stepgen, only the encoders and
> > 3-phase PWMs are getting created.
> >
> > The only thing I can think of is that the previous owner was using a
> > modified version of the SVTP6_7I39.BIT firmware that allowed for the
> > creation of stepgens and regular pwmgens.
> >
> > Sadly, I did not think to back up the firmware folder before wiping
> > the old install.
>
> It's good to have a spare drive for fresh OS install when you are not
> sure about the outcome or when there is only one partition.
>
> > Am I missing something, or do I need some sort of custom firmware
> > file?
> >
> > -Chris
>
> While I cannot answer your question about the firmware issues, it's
> worthwhile to mention that all Linux installations benefit from
> partitioned disk drive so that you do not wipe out all files with
> reinstalling the OS. I hope this helps others in the future.
>
> For future installations I recommend to create at least 4 partitions:
> /  for the OS
> /var   for logs, package cache etc.
> swap
> /home  user home directories obviously.
> /tmp   optional.
>
> /home is the last partition for "the rest of the disk space.
>
> Before you upgrade the OS it's always good to save critical config
> files: mkdir /home/backup
> tar cvfp /home/backup/etc.tar /etc
> tar /home/backup/usr.local.bin.tar /usr/local/bin
> and so on.
>
> That way you preserve any config files in case you need to restore
> them later.
>
> If you run into disk space issues at some point later, you simply move
> a directory to /home and make a link. Typical example is:
>
> mkdir /home/var.cache
> (cd /var/cache; tar cfp - .) | (cd /home/var.cache; tar xvf -)
>
> cd /var
> rm -rf /var/cache; ln -s /home/var.cache cache
>
> cp -rp /lib/firmware /home   <- this would save /lib/firmware/hm2
> firmware among others.
>
> When partioning disk drive during new installation you only need to
> make sure that last partition is preserved and mounted under /home
>
> Disk drives are so low cost thee days that it's worthwhile to install
> OS on a new one and use the old one for backups.

+1000 at least on the new drive for a new install.  With terabyte plus 
drives now under an 80 dollar bill from the online people like 
tigerdirect or newegg one doesn't have very much of an excuse for the 
cost compared to the lost.

As for backups, I've been using amanda since the late '90's and my first 
linux install. Recoveries are a piece of cake, and almost disk to disk 
copy rates timewise if you spin a 3rd big, terabyte or more, drive & 
have amanda build virtual tapes as opposed to using a considerably more 
expensive tape drive. The recovery speed comes from the tape drive being 
a sequential device that has to be read from the start to find what you 
want, but the disk drive is random access, hundreds to thousands of 
times faster.

So far, smartctl has warned me of impending drive failures with enough 
advance warning that I have yet to lose a byte of data that wasn't 
overwritten by the schedule you have amanda setup to run it.

Here, it grabs the important stuff and saves it in about an hour, 
starting a bit after 1am every morning.  At any one time, I can back up 
25 to 30 days and get it back.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 January 2016 03:24:51 Peter Blodow wrote:

> Hello Gene,
>
> R,S and T are just the traditional names of the incoming 3-phase mains
> supply, very common over here, but out of date. They were replaced by
> L1, L2, L3. This comes from the usual motor or transformer hookup.
> U,V, W were the motor (or transf.) leads while X,Y,Z were the ends of
> the rotor windings (in case of brushed rotor for soft start and power
> control) or transf. secondary.
>
> It does not matter how you get those big capacitors charged, from two
> or three phases or from a 500 V DC net as some big machine shops
> provide. Just connect your mains and measure the resulting DC voltage.
> The following switching supply will never know where the DC voltage
> comes from, unless it's to low or has too  much ripple, maybe.
>
> Peter

Thanks Peter.  I thought it was odd that an obviously pretty fresh design 
wasn't using the L1/L2/L3 designators.  But this particular area is 
obviously new to me so I thought I'd better check.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 January 2016 01:11:05 MC Cason wrote:

> Gene,
>
>Just be aware that the Square D Homeline series has aluminum bus
> bars.  I had to replace a 8 year old box, due to some arcing issues
> between the bus bar, and the breaker, so now I put noalox on all of my
> breaker contacts.  Since doing that, I have not had any more issues.
>
>The Square D industrial boxes use nickel plated copper bus bars.
>
Thats good to know. I thought it looked like alu, but wasn't positive as 
the stickups for the breaker to grip must have some sort of a yellowish 
coating on them.  This one was new in 2013 when it was installed after 
the transfer switch when I had a 20kw generator installed.  So the 
original box, with the meter socket in it, now in front of the transfer 
switch, was installed in 2007 in preparation to adding the semiattached 
garage in 2008.

So the next time I goto Lowes, I ought to pick up a tube of that grease, 
and grease them all before I re-install the cover.

As I've indicated before on this list, alu wire is a %$#@&^()+ time bomb.  
I had some of it try to burn down the house at 3 am on a -15F night in 
Carrol Nebraska in the early '70's. Old house, meterhead outside, with 
about an 8" long jumper of 8/3 alu from the meters load to the top of 
the box, fortunately located in a closet in the bedroom we were sleeping 
in because the arcing noise woke me up.  So at 3am I had to dress 
for -15F weather, locate the arc, disconnect most of the electric 
heaters, go out, cut the seal off the meter (thats a felony in Nebraska) 
go out to the transmitter & round up enough copper to replace that shit, 
replace it, put the meter back in & start taking the chill off the house 
before the pipes froze.  Called Ron at Wayne County Public Power first 
thing in the morning and told him to come by and put a new seal on the 
meter. He had a cow, but did. He and I knew each other well before that 
since the tv transmitter at KXNE-TV that I was in charge of, was their 
biggest customer, pulling around 230 kwh when it was on, until somebody 
built a pair of 150'x450' air conditioned hog barns out east of Wayne a 
few miles.

Now I am forced to use the shit here & there, simply because you can't 
buy copper in 8 gauge around here, like the 8/3wg run of UG to the shop 
building, but every box in that run gets opened and the screws tightened 
another 1/4 turn at 3 or 4 year intervals.

So my distaste for alu wire is a long standing and bitter issue. I don't 
care how tight you think the connection is, that shit cold flows over 
time and it _will_ come loose, destroying what you thought was a gas 
tight joint.  The use of noalox doesn't change that other that its 
sealing effect if slathered on thick enough to keep airborn oxygen out 
of the joint even if it does flow & reduce the contact pressures exerted 
by the screw/bolts. That will extend the time frame to failure, perhaps 
by 100%, but it will still fail.  Unless tightened occasionally to 
restore the gas tightness of the connection.  This time when I go around 
and do the tightening, I'll magic marker the date on the box cover to 
serve as a reminder as to when it was done last.  At 81 & holding a year 
at a time, my memory isn't what it was 25 years ago and isn't expected 
to get any better.

I bought an IR thermometer just to survey the crap while it was under 
power.  It has warned me once already.

Thank you very much for the heads up, MC.

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD

[Len Shelton]

I was with you until you said you wanted him to pay for return shipping 
or you'd sick eBay on him. You got what you paid for.

 >Len



On 1/30/2016 12:37 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 30 January 2016 11:47:43 Dave Cole wrote:
>
>> Ha ha.ha ...
> That was my response too Dave, and it took a huge effort to not ask Len
> what was in his morming cheerios besides milk.
>> So what you are saying is that Gene should have bought a Chinese VFD
>> and Spindle from a US distributor who buys Chinese VFDs and Spindles
>> in larger quantities from the same cheap Chinese supplier?Or  what
>> ?
>>
>> If you have a better solution/source for inexpensive Spindles we would
>> all like to hear about it.  :-)
>>
>> Dave
> Yup, 40 Rogers on that good buddy, speak up if you have something
> constructive to say, we're all listening.
>
> FWIW I've found the vendor quite knowledgable and helpful. So all I have
> to do, in between working on a furniture project, is run a 240 line to
> it, hook it up and test it, with the motor strapped to someting suitably
> massive. So all I have to do is find enough working back to do that. If
> I would have known I was going to live this long I would have taken far
> better care of it. Unfortunately, I've been a git-r-done type, hurting
> myself too many times over the last 81 years. Now I am paying the price
> of such foolishness.  The MRI's aren't at all pretty.
>
> I'll not polute the list with more echo's on Len's msg.
>
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

BTW, Dale Grover at Maker Works in Ann Arbor put together this handy overview 
of the CAD/CAM tool chain:  
http://maker-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/cadcamPosterV1.png

-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

"the CAD/CAM tool chain” should have been "their CAD/CAM tool chain”.  This is 
Maker Works tool chain for the software they use and the machines they drive.  
It doesn’t include ALL possibilities.  For example, Fusion 360 CAM isn’t shown. 
But handy nonetheless.
-Tom

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 5:12 PM, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
> 
> BTW, Dale Grover at Maker Works in Ann Arbor put together this handy overview 
> of the CAD/CAM tool chain:  
> http://maker-works.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/cadcamPosterV1.png
> 
> -Tom
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)

OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does not
work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of "membership"
starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.

That said, it looks really good:

   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
   working on the same designs
   - Users can extend it using Java
   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings


But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
 Looks like I can use this for 30 days.

Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360


On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:

> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
> the only thing I run under Windows.
>
> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>
> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>  You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>
> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
> -Tom
>
> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
> >
> > I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
> > (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
> > for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
> > add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as
> a
> > half dozen each.
> >
> > I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
> drawings
> > and these can be saved in several different file formats.
> >
> > I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
> > options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has
> no
> > notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
> > matter?
> >
> > I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
> > controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
> > fine, as I've had long experience with both.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

To clarify…  This is not an Adobe app.  The company is Autodesk, same company 
that did Autocad and Inventor, etc etc….
-Tom

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free use
> under one of two cases
> 1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
> that
> 2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can sign
> up again.
> 
> So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
> makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.
> 
> This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
> This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
> on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
> exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
> can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.
> 
> This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
> "open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a popular
> mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design and
> if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
> system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
> lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
> data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.
> 
> But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
> web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.
> 
> There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
> product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson  >
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
>> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
>> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
>> 
>> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
>> not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
>> "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30
>> days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
>> 
>> That said, it looks really good:
>> 
>>   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>>   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>>   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>>   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>>   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>>   working on the same designs
>>   - Users can extend it using Java
>>   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
>> 
>> 
>> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
>> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
>> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
>> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
>> 
>> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>>> 
>>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>>> 
>>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>>> CAD 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

This is what I get for typing while I'm looking at the app, rather than
after using it for a while.   I got to it using it via a different rout.
For Mac users getting it from the Apple Mac Store is better than
downloading from the Autodesk web site.  Apple will manage software updates
automatically and it will run on all my Apple computers, even ones I buy
years later.  The terms of use may be a little different if you get it from
the app store.

Now to work through some on-line tutorials..

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:29 PM,  wrote:

> Chris,
> Go here: http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview
> Download, sign up, and if you are a small business making less than $100k
> per year (I think that is the number), or a hobbiest you get a 1 year (and
> renewable) license for no charge.
> -Tom
> .
> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:04 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> > cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> > have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> >
> > OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
> not
> > work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
> "membership"
> > starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
> > free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> >
> > That said, it looks really good:
> >
> >   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
> >   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
> >   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
> >   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
> >   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple
> users
> >   working on the same designs
> >   - Users can extend it using Java
> >   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> >
> >
> > But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> > gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> > subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
> > Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> >
> > Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> > 
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> >
> >> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic
> Design
> >> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
> >> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on
> MacOS -
> >> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty
> much
> >> the only thing I run under Windows.
> >>
> >> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
> >> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
> >> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have
> now
> >> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
> >> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM
> yet,
> >> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
> >> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
> >> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
> >> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
> >> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed
> at
> >> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based
> CAM
> >> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
> >> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug
> release at
> >> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
> >>
> >> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
> >> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
> >> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it
> less
> >> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
> >> You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
> >>
> >> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
> >> -Tom
> >>
> >>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for
> options.
> >>>
> >>> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small
> parts
> >>> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be
> designed
> >>> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and
> later
> >>> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much
> as
> >> a
> >>> half dozen each.
> >>>
> >>> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
> >> drawings
> 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> For Mac users getting it from the Apple Mac Store is better than downloading 
> from the Autodesk web site.Apple will manage software updates 
> automatically and it will run on all my Apple computers, even ones I buy 
> years later.


I would say it is very much debatable if getting it from the Apple App store is 
“better” than from Autodesk directly.  The updates to Fusion 360 are very much 
behind on the app store version because Autodesk has to go through the Apple 
vetting procedures for every release there.  They are updating more frequently 
than Apple has been able to keep up with. Apple isn’t "managing software 
updates automatically” as much as delaying Autodesk from releasing updates 
quickly and informing you via the App Store application when they (Apple) have 
finally gotten around to censoring the offensive comments in the code and 
making it available (having been involved with an Apple app release perhaps I 
am not being facetious ;-).  If you are of the mind that being behind several 
revisions is “better”, then by all means go for it…   I have found that the new 
updates (mostly) add stability and performance as well as many enhancements and 
features (rather than more bugs) so I am a fan of the direct download myself.   

By the way, you can ALSO download the direct app from Autodesk EVEN IF you have 
the Apple app store version.  There are several threads on this subject in the 
Fusion 360 forums, which by the way are an excellent source of information.  I 
have to say, Autodesk support for Fusion 360 is absolutely great.  Notice I 
didn’t say “for a free app”.  They have been great, period.

-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

Yes.  Sorry that was a typo, autocorrected.   But actually the subscription
model of paying for software is the same.Microsoft is doing  this with
Office 360 too.   All  of these companies are looking to do the same
things, even out there cash flow with reliable monthly payments form
customers and to offer cloud data storage so your data is not tied to one
specific PC.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:45 PM,  wrote:

> To clarify…  This is not an Adobe app.  The company is Autodesk, same
> company that did Autocad and Inventor, etc etc….
> -Tom
>
> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free
> use
> > under one of two cases
> > 1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
> > that
> > 2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can
> sign
> > up again.
> >
> > So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
> > makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.
> >
> > This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
> > This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
> > on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
> > exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
> > can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.
> >
> > This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
> > "open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a
> popular
> > mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design
> and
> > if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
> > system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
> > lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
> > data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.
> >
> > But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
> > web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.
> >
> > There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
> > product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> >> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> >> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> >>
> >> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
> >> not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
> >> "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the
> first 30
> >> days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> >>
> >> That said, it looks really good:
> >>
> >>   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
> >>   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
> >>   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
> >>   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
> >>   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple
> users
> >>   working on the same designs
> >>   - Users can extend it using Java
> >>   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> >>
> >>
> >> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe
> has
> >> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> >> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe
> software.
> >> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> >>
> >> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> >> 
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic
> Design
> >>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
> >>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on
> MacOS -
> >>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty
> much
> >>> the only thing I run under Windows.
> >>>
> >>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
> >>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
> >>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have
> now
> >>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
> >>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM
> yet,
> >>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
> >>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was
> very
> >>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Greg Bentzinger]

That Maker-works chart is missing the biggist column, between scanner and CAD. 
Paper blueprints.

I know that by now you would expect that companies would supply electronic 
design media to speed up both quote and delivery times, but it seems that 
anything other than paper printed blueprints is available less than 30% of the 
time.

I also have been using Geomagic and am going to be seriously looking at 
Fusion360. I think Fusion360 is going to decimate the lower and mid range 
CAD/CAM options. For simple 2D and 2 1/2D type jobs I have my original licensed 
copy of BobCAD V12 for DOS which worked great before they attempted the Windows 
port. I can run BobCAD V12 just fine in Linux via DOSBox.

Oh and RE: Collets. This is one place where you dig deep into your wallet and 
buy the best you can afford for your milling tools - run out is everything. get 
that special collet in 1/8", 3/16", 1/4" and for what ever other endmill shank 
sizes you use. The tool life gained for about 5 endmills will pay for that size 
collet. The generic sets are ok for drilling and reaming but for fine milling 
you need top shelf.

Also for fine work - look into using SGS or other quality 3/64" solid carbide 
endmills (and try to buy double ended for only a few $$ more) these are much 
tougher than 1/32" yet allow you to do a G2/G3 move with a .025" radius. I have 
a planetary gear spindle speeder head I use. It has a 1:6 speed ratio so with 
my mill at 4000 rpm I have 24,000rpm at the tool. I bought it about 1992 and it 
still runs the same today and has about 10,000-12,000 hours on it. It was very 
expensive, custom built by a division of the Lovejoy Corp. in the UK but it has 
paid for itself many times over. Looks kind of like this but mine is smaller 
and has a Universal Engineering 200 Kwik-switch shank. 
http://www.nikken-world.com/Nikken-Spindle-Speeders.aspx 

Info on kwik switch - http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/KS_200_R8_Adapt.html 
- Ignore the R8...

Greg

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Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

Chris,
Go here: http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview
Download, sign up, and if you are a small business making less than $100k per 
year (I think that is the number), or a hobbiest you get a 1 year (and 
renewable) license for no charge.  
-Tom
.
> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:04 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> 
> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does not
> work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of "membership"
> starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
> free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> 
> That said, it looks really good:
> 
>   - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>   - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>   organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>   - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>   locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>   working on the same designs
>   - Users can extend it using Java
>   - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> 
> 
> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> 
> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> 
>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>> 
>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>> 
>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
>> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>> You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>> 
>> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
>> -Tom
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
>>> 
>>> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
>>> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
>>> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
>>> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as
>> a
>>> half dozen each.
>>> 
>>> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
>> drawings
>>> and these can be saved in several different file formats.
>>> 
>>> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
>>> options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has
>> no
>>> notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
>>> matter?
>>> 
>>> I'm doing the design work on a Apple iMac and of course the machine
>>> controller is Linux.  Any workflow that uses either of those two OSes is
>>> fine, as I've had long experience with both.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Chris Albertson
>>> Redondo Beach, California
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[Chris Albertson]

As I said, running this app as I type...  Yes you can sign up for free use
under one of two cases
1) Student or Educator, gets three free years and can sign up again after
that
2) Business that does under $100K per year gets one free year then can sign
up again.

So I yes you only owe them money if you use this to run a business that
makes over $100K.  In which case $300 is not much.

This is not really a "cloud app".  It runs like the other Adobe apps.
This means the app itself, the program is just a normal program that runs
on your local computer.  But the DATA or at lest copies of the data can
exist on Adobe's cloud storage.This is very good because it means you
can access it from any place in the world and so can your co-workers.

This would be the app to use it say a group of people wanted to design a
"open source" machine part.  Like maybe a CNC conversion kit for a popular
mill, or an open source 3D printer.  Anyone could "improve" the design and
if the improvement turns out to not be so good then the version control
system could back out the change.  You can't do this so easy if the data
lives inside one PC in one person's office.   I think you can keep local
data too if you like.  I's still playing with it.

But do NOT think of this as a "cloud app".  It is NOT browser based, not
web based.  It's runs local as any other apps does.

There does appear to be a learning curve.  This is an industrial strength
product and I've had it for all of 20 minutes so far.



On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

>
> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
>
> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does
> not work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of
> "membership" starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30
> days is free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
>
> That said, it looks really good:
>
>- A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>- It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>- It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>working on the same designs
>- Users can extend it using Java
>- Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
>
>
> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
>  Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
>
> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> 
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
>
>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>>
>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>>
>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
>> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>>  You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>>
>> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
>> -Tom
>>
>> > On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson <
>> albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > What are 

Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?

[tom-emc]

Here is the quote from the Fusion 360 link I sent:  

"Access the same design software used by industry leaders worldwide. A free 
3-year license is available for students, teachers, and academic institutions.  
A free 1-year startup license is also available for hobbyists, enthusiasts, 
makers, and emerging businesses that make less than US$100,000 in revenue per 
year. At the end of 1 year, you can reselect the startup entitlement or 
transition to a commercial entitlement.
See Terms of Service: Autodesk Web Services Entitlements 
.”

-Tom
.
> On Jan 30, 2016, at 11:04 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> It seems that Fusion 360 is in the Mac "App Store" for free.  It may be
> cloud based but it is also a "real" app that runs on a Mac.  (They might
> have a Windows version too but I have not looked.)
> 
> OK I said "free".  No, sorry, a correction, The app is free but it does not
> work without a "membership".  You can buy different levels of "membership"
> starting at $39 per month or $300 per year.  Only the first 30 days is
> free.  I'm looking at the App as I type this.
> 
> That said, it looks really good:
> 
>  - A big company that is NOT going away is behind this (Adobe)
>  - It does ,Surface, Mesh, Parametric and Solid modeling and will do
>  organic shape like a guitar neck or car body as well as simple things
>  - It holds the data and allows people to collaborate from different
>  locations on a design.  It will handle version control and multiple users
>  working on the same designs
>  - Users can extend it using Java
>  - Can output to a 3 axis mill, 3D Printer or even printed drawings
> 
> 
> But $39 per month will add up over time.  This is the model Adobe has
> gone with for their other apps like Photoshop and the like, you buy a
> subscription.   It is a good deal if you make money  with Adobe software.
> Looks like I can use this for 30 days.
> 
> Here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM,  wrote:
> 
>> I too am a Mac user.  Up until recently I have been using Geomagic Design
>> (formerly Alibre Design) for CAD and mostly Sheetcam for CAM.  Both of
>> these apps are Windows based.  I run Windows7 as an application on MacOS -
>> as god intended ;-)  with Parallels.  Geomagic and Sheetcam are pretty much
>> the only thing I run under Windows.
>> 
>> A few months ago when I read that Fusion had released their turning CAM
>> and made Fusion 360 free for enthusiasts and small businesses I gave it
>> another try (had played with early beta but found it lacking).  I have now
>> begun to use Fusion 360 almost exclusively.  I have most recently been
>> making parts for a cnc lathe so I haven’t played with the milling CAM yet,
>> but do intend to.  After months of using it I believe I am not going to
>> renew my maintenance of Geomagic Design.   I have to say that I was very
>> reluctant to use a cloud-based application but I am quite pleased with
>> Fusion 360 and have never had issues relating to it’s cloud-based model
>> (you can do most things when offline as well).  I am constantly amazed at
>> the features in the software as well as the integrated HSMWorks-based CAM
>> software that is available for free in this package.   It is also
>> constantly being improved and updated, they do a feature and bug release at
>> least once a month. sometime twice a month.
>> 
>> I also infrequently use OnShape (also cloud based) and am very impressed
>> with their collaboration features and rapid updates as well.  OnShape is
>> CAD only and doesn’t have free integrated CAM so I have been using it less
>> and less but occasionally use it with colleagues to work on some things.
>> You can purchase commercial CAM packages for it.
>> 
>> I would highly recommend you check out Fusion 360.
>> -Tom
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What are people here using to create G-code?   I am looking for options.
>>> 
>>> I'm new to CNC and trying to develop a work flow.  I'm making small parts
>>> (most fit in a 3" cube)  for robot manipulators.   These can be designed
>>> for easy manual machining but now I want to add curves and arcs and later
>>> add refinements that have more organic shapes.  Qualities are as much as
>> a
>>> half dozen each.
>>> 
>>> I use ViaCAD.  It is very much identical to "TurboCAD" to make 3D
>> drawings
>>> and these can be saved in several different file formats.
>>> 
>>> I found PyCAM.  It will read STL files and make G-code.   Are there other
>>> options?   Can you really build good G-code from STL?  It seems STL has
>> no
>>> notion of arcs and hols and pockets.  It is all triangles.  Does this
>>> matter?
>>> 
>>> I'm doing