Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 23:36, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Think about it.  Probably little support required.  There was that notice 
> about the new LinuxCNC version for 2020.  I asked exactly how we were 
> supposed to update and if it would screw up the old version.  As yet I've not 
> seen a posting that provides the step by step upgrade method to keep the old 
> configuration and just update to 2.7.15 from 2.7.14.

That didn't require any config changes.
And for most installations it will happen automatically. (Red triangle
icon top right of screen, click through)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 21:09, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > > But, if we change the pin names to be consistent now, every existing
> > > config that uses the old names will break.
> 
> > Too bad.  Then break them.
> 
> Are you offering to be the support contact for all those users whose
> machines stop working?
> 
> --
> atp

Think about it.  Probably little support required.  There was that notice about 
the new LinuxCNC version for 2020.  I asked exactly how we were supposed to 
update and if it would screw up the old version.  As yet I've not seen a 
posting that provides the step by step upgrade method to keep the old 
configuration and just update to 2.7.15 from 2.7.14.

Ie the last posting that subject before it drifted into different methods of 
upgrading config files was:
--
Wouldn't something like sudo apt-get upgrade linuxcnc-uspace restrict the
upgrade to just LinuxCNC?

Dave
--

So Dave's question (and my original one)  for something as important as 
updating LinuxCNC to 2.7.15 wasn't answered.  I think the support for '-' to 
'_' would be just as simple.  Just don't answer.  Leave people hanging.  
Wouldn't want to buck a trend.  ;-)

John





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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 21:09, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> > But, if we change the pin names to be consistent now, every existing
> > config that uses the old names will break.

> Too bad.  Then break them.

Are you offering to be the support contact for all those users whose
machines stop working?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> > Consistency in using either the '-' or '_' is important.
> 
> Yes, but possibly now too late.
> 
> I recall seeing something somewhere that said that all HAL pins should
> use "-" exclusively.
> But then you have the problem that file names tend to use "_" (though
> I just tested and "-" is allowed) and you end up with
> loadrt some_hal_component creating pins called
> some-hal-component.00.some-pin-name.
> 
> But, if we change the pin names to be consistent now, every existing
> config that uses the old names will break.
> 

Too bad.  Then break them.

I come from the world of strongly typed languages like ALGOL 60, ALGOL 68 and 
PASCAL so I don't really care if stricter rules break existing hard to 
understand or diagnose programs or config files.  

Back in the early days of computer languages that were done on punch cards I 
can remember our professor in our compiler construction course stressing that 
with the increase in the amount of memory available that the mantra 'add 
another pass' would become more important to create a list of error messages 
when compiling a program that were 100% accurate.  He'd written an ALGOL-68 in 
IBM 370 Assembler that we used in the course.  It was terribly processor hungry 
and since we were allocated only so many seconds of computer time compiling an 
assignment program too many times resulted in burning up our funds. 

At first that seemed stupid.  Until we realized that fixing the first error 
statement and then recompiling was a waste of time.  His 'add another pass' 
philosophy was such that if compiling a program generated 45 errors you'd 
better fix all 45 before trying to compile again.  That's because unlike many 
other languages that have a flag that says stop after the first error this 
compiler recovered and kept going generating accurate errors.

Not to say that after we fixed the 45 errors that new ones wouldn't show up.  
But once you experience that envronment, every other language that can't tell 
you everything that is wrong the first time  is really just not as good.

Programming languages of any sort that overload operators to be part of 
variable names but also math operators (even if only in other languages) is 
just plain stupid.  

I could go one but I also understand that arguing with the Linux community is 
like spitting into wind.  So the end result of this is neither the program nor 
the documentation will change.  And that's sad.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 18:10, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> So I'd like to formally request that whoever is responsible fix the 
> documentation and /or the program.  It's absolutely nuts to have a variable 
> named
> (s32 rw) output−type
>
> And then another one named
> (u32 rw) pwm_frequency
>
> Consistency in using either the '-' or '_' is important.

Yes, but possibly now too late.

I recall seeing something somewhere that said that all HAL pins should
use "-" exclusively.
But then you have the problem that file names tend to use "_" (though
I just tested and "-" is allowed) and you end up with
loadrt some_hal_component creating pins called
some-hal-component.00.some-pin-name.

But, if we change the pin names to be consistent now, every existing
config that uses the old names will break.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> >
> > On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 05:18, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > I have LinuxCNC with the parallel port configured to create 1kHz on PIN14
> and DIR on PIN16 out through the PMDX-126.  Through my adaptor board I
> can run the Bergerda AC Servo from 135 RPM all the way up to 2950 RPM.
> The PWM to 0V-10V board was only $11.23 Cdn and works best with a max of
> 1kHz.  Any higher and the low end won't drop below about 500 RPM.
> [/quote]
> 
> I think that you will have trouble with a 1kHz servo thread and a 1kHz PWM.
> 
> > That doesn't work for
> > setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-freq 1000.0
> >
> > How do I set the PWM frequency?  Googling hm2_7i92 doesn't turn up
> anything that is helpful.
> 
> >The generic docs for Mesa card HAL is here:
> >http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
> >But to find that you do need to know that the Mesa firmware is called
> >Hostmot2, and that the docs section exists.
> >
> >It should be setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-frequency 1000.0
> >
> >--
> >atp
> 
> You dont need to guess about pin and parameter names.
> With LinuxCNC running type:
> 
> halcmd show pin hm*
> to show all Hostmot2 hardware pins
> 
> and
> halcmd show param hm2*
> to show all Hostmot2 hardware parameters
> 
> To create a list of all pins, parameters, and signals as a copy-paste donor
> file:
> 
> halcmd show all > linuxcnc-names.txt
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics


OK.  So the documentation at 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
is incorrect and also a little on the ambiguous level.

"pwmgens have names like "hm2_..pwmgen.". 
"Instance" is a two-digit number that corresponds to the HostMot2 pwmgen 
instance number. There are ’num_pwmgens’ instances, starting with 00.

So, for example, the HAL pin that enables output from the fourth pwmgen of the 
first 7i43 board is: hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.03.enable (this assumes that the 
firmware in that board is configured so that this HAL object is available)"

The command 
halcmd show pin hm*

Isn't any better than looking at the HAL Meter pins list which I did.  

Using the 
halcmd show all > linuxcnc-names.txt

and searching for all instances of pwm shows it's a parameter.  Not a pin.
Then using the HAL meter under parameters both the pdm and pwm frequency 
parameters show up so it's back to if you don't know you don’t know what to 
look for circle.

And it turns out it's _not_ as Andy suggested
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-frequency 1000

but instead it's 
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency 1000

And there's another example of where the documentation sends people in the 
wrong direction.  

So I'd like to formally request that whoever is responsible fix the 
documentation and /or the program.  It's absolutely nuts to have a variable 
named
(s32 rw) output−type

And then another one named 
(u32 rw) pwm_frequency

Consistency in using either the '-' or '_' is important.  And I prefer the '_' 
simply because it doesn't overload the concept that the '-' is also used for 
the subtraction symbol.

Second, the hm_7i92 probably doesn't have the internal infrastructure to 
support more than one PWM frequency which is perhaps why there is no '.00' as 
part of the pin description.   That too should then be in the documentation.  
Maybe not the Linuxcnc.org doc but then certainly in the manufacturer 7i92 
documentation. 

Or maybe just, as an idea, even if there is only one PWM frequency generator 
then '.00' should still work but '.01' etc. would fail.  That makes everything 
consistent again.  

Perhaps whoever is in the know can pass this information on to whoever is 
responsible for the documents and/or the software.  Both the document (naming) 
and the driver code (.00 and output_type instead of output-type) would be 
better if changed in that manner.

What does work giving me, using pwm, 165 RPM to 2950 RPM with the little pwm to 
voltage module is:

setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency 1000

Thank you for the support.
John Dammeyer





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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020, andy pugh wrote:


Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 10:27:58 +
From: andy pugh 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 05:18, John Dammeyer  wrote:



I have LinuxCNC with the parallel port configured to create 1kHz on PIN14 and 
DIR on PIN16 out through the PMDX-126.  Through my adaptor board I can run the 
Bergerda AC Servo from 135 RPM all the way up to 2950 RPM.  The PWM to 0V-10V 
board was only $11.23 Cdn and works best with a max of 1kHz.  Any higher and 
the low end won't drop below about 500 RPM. [/quote]


I think that you will have trouble with a 1kHz servo thread and a 1kHz PWM.


That doesn't work for
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-freq 1000.0

How do I set the PWM frequency?  Googling hm2_7i92 doesn't turn up anything 
that is helpful.



The generic docs for Mesa card HAL is here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
But to find that you do need to know that the Mesa firmware is called
Hostmot2, and that the docs section exists.

It should be setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-frequency 1000.0

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912



You dont need to guess about pin and parameter names.
With LinuxCNC running type:

halcmd show pin hm*
to show all Hostmot2 hardware pins

and
halcmd show param hm2*
to show all Hostmot2 hardware parameters

To create a list of all pins, parameters, and signals as a copy-paste donor 
file:


halcmd show all > linuxcnc-names.txt



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 13 January 2020 05:27:58 andy pugh wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 05:18, John Dammeyer  
wrote:
> > I have LinuxCNC with the parallel port configured to create 1kHz on
> > PIN14 and DIR on PIN16 out through the PMDX-126.  Through my adaptor
> > board I can run the Bergerda AC Servo from 135 RPM all the way up to
> > 2950 RPM.  The PWM to 0V-10V board was only $11.23 Cdn and works
> > best with a max of 1kHz.  Any higher and the low end won't drop
> > below about 500 RPM. [/quote]
>
> I think that you will have trouble with a 1kHz servo thread and a 1kHz
> PWM.
>
> > That doesn't work for
> > setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-freq 1000.0
> >
> > How do I set the PWM frequency?  Googling hm2_7i92 doesn't turn up
> > anything that is helpful.
>
> The generic docs for Mesa card HAL is here:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
> But to find that you do need to know that the Mesa firmware is called
> Hostmot2, and that the docs section exists.
>
> It should be setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-frequency 1000.0

The 7i90's pwmgen is similar, (I think) and I have the frequency set to 
1, with pdm-frequency set at 1. The comment says that makes it 
self-smoothing. That setup lets me run the vfd down to 5 HZ, and I've 
set a top at 200hz as the inductance of that motor makes its coil 
currents and torque fall off a cliff if I try to go any faster. Thats a 
40/1 ratio without moveing the belts. Using a mesa spinx1 pdm->analog 
for the vfd driver. Low frequency current limits in the vfd are set at 
the motors FLA. It can run at 5hz for 45 minutes and I can still lay a 
hand on it. Thats well below 100 rpms at the spindle, around 30 IIRC, 
without listening to the backgear rumble.  Nice...


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 05:18, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I have LinuxCNC with the parallel port configured to create 1kHz on PIN14 and 
> DIR on PIN16 out through the PMDX-126.  Through my adaptor board I can run 
> the Bergerda AC Servo from 135 RPM all the way up to 2950 RPM.  The PWM to 
> 0V-10V board was only $11.23 Cdn and works best with a max of 1kHz.  Any 
> higher and the low end won't drop below about 500 RPM. [/quote]

I think that you will have trouble with a 1kHz servo thread and a 1kHz PWM.

> That doesn't work for
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-freq 1000.0
>
> How do I set the PWM frequency?  Googling hm2_7i92 doesn't turn up anything 
> that is helpful.

The generic docs for Mesa card HAL is here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
But to find that you do need to know that the Mesa firmware is called
Hostmot2, and that the docs section exists.

It should be setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-frequency 1000.0

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Finally got back to doing something with the system.  Lots of electrical noise 
issues whenever the AC Servo is enabled but mostly with MACH3.  Moving cables 
and the motor solved a lot of those problems.  

Booting instead with LinuxCNC has been very successful. 

I have LinuxCNC with the parallel port configured to create 1kHz on PIN14 and 
DIR on PIN16 out through the PMDX-126.  Through my adaptor board I can run the 
Bergerda AC Servo from 135 RPM all the way up to 2950 RPM.  The PWM to 0V-10V 
board was only $11.23 Cdn and works best with a max of 1kHz.  Any higher and 
the low end won't drop below about 500 RPM.

For the parallel port version I can do this:
setp pwmgen.0.pwm-freq 1000.0

That doesn't work for 
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.pwm-freq 1000.0

How do I set the PWM frequency?  Googling hm2_7i92 doesn't turn up anything 
that is helpful.

Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> 
> I don't get the impression that the STMBL guys are interested in a
> "market".

Nor a lot of support.  

There's a misconception out there that if someone publishes the source code 
and/or schematics they don't need to provide any support. Of course if the 
software is huge or is so poorly written/documented that it's virtually 
impossible to follow then it's not really been published.

Same with poorly written manuals or translated from another language.  

So if you are buying a motor and a driver what's a better deal?
1. DC Servo set including power supply from Automation Technologies for about 
$629 for 1.27 Nm. Minimal manuals.
   --- Or something like the HP_UHUs I made 4 of but using only two.  I'm about 
$350 into each drive with replacement encoders.
2. AC Servo set running off 220VAC from Bergerda for about $350 with nicer 
cables and connectors, smaller and also 1.27 nM.. Translated manuals.
   --- I have one and I'm considering replacing two other axis with them.
3. STMBL drive for less than half but like Automation Technologies also 
requires some sort of power supply and needs RS422 drivers and isn't optically 
isolated since the drive section is optically isolated from the low voltage DC 
controller side.
  --- up side of STMBL drive is it can run AC Servo motors from about 36VDC all 
the way up to 350VDC.
  --- down side, driver chip discontinued, minimal support because the source 
code is published.

So if you have an existing AC Servo motor, you can reconfigure an existing 
drive from the far east, like the Bergerda, or use something like a STMBL 
(which is a sweet package) but spend hours trying to get it to work.

And in my case first prototype and then design, layout and have PC boards made 
for TTL to RS422 conversion.  Also more time and cost.

And it's true, the support from Bergerda where I'm pretty sure they are using 
Google Translate at times to write English, has been phenomenal they are also 
interested in selling more products.  The STMBL designers don’t appear to care 
probably because they've not set up to manufacture.  

Andy, you've been the driving support behind the STMBL product and I can't 
thank you enough for your help.

John


> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 06:44, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Look closely at what people are using for LinuxCNC and if it's not an
older PC with a parallel port it seems the only other choice is a MESA
board of some flavour.

There are also the Pico cards (admittedly using the p-port, but EPP comms
to an FPGA rather than bit-bashing) and General Mechatronics have quite an
interesting range of LinuxCNC compatible hardware.
Servo-to-Go and Motenc still work too, but are probably best considered as
legacy products.

For example, look at the chastising I received from the STMBL designers
> because I wanted step/dir support rather than LinuxCNC based MESA smart
> serial.  That there was a large market on the Windows/Mach side was
> considered imaterial


I don't get the impression that the STMBL guys are interested in a
"market".

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 21 September 2019 01:42:05 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > >  Otherwise I'd probably sell the STMBLs.
> >
> > You would probably find a buyer for one, if you have seen the gitter
> > recently. The one that I blew up and sent to Jack has blown up
> > again.
>
> All three of mine work perfectly.  So far.  I'm not eager to let them
> go.  Part of still thinks that one day I'll have a breakthrough and
> actually be able to figure out how the code works.
>
> > And there's part of me that's being tugged in the direction of an
> > Ethernet
> >
> > > Smooth Stepper and MACH3 on WIN-10 with all the issues I'm having
> > > with
> >
> > the
> >
> > > MESA.
> >
> > You should do what is right for you. Nobody has any financial
> > interest in encouraging you to use LinuxCNC. I do wonder if this is
> > part of the reason that Mach does so well? There are folk making
> > money from that encouraging its use even for things it is not very
> > good at (like lathes)
>
> I don't think there's any financial interest in encouraging to use
> MACH3 itself and it's a dead product to a certain extent although
> there are people using it with WIN-10.  I haven't looked at MACH4
> because I don't like "call home software for license permission".
>
Thats a non-starter. Although I'll have to admit I do own a win10 home 
edition box, as its the only working interface for a VNA I bought. Draws 
smith charts of an AM broadcast tower in vitually real time.

> There is on both sides interest in selling BoBs and either USB or
> Ethernet to BoB implementations.  Look closely at what people are
> using for LinuxCNC and if it's not an older PC with a parallel port it
> seems the only other choice is a MESA board of some flavour.  And if
> you buy a MESA plug in card with 4 interface cards to make up your BoB
> then the support is probably great.

I've found support from all the vendors I have delt with has been more 
than adequate. I used a PMDX-106 for spindle control with the hf mill 
for years, so I'm sorry to see the negative comments made recently.

> For example, look at the chastising I received from the STMBL
> designers because I wanted step/dir support rather than LinuxCNC based
> MESA smart serial.  That there was a large market on the Windows/Mach
> side was considered imaterial.  Had to bite my tongue after that
> series of comments.
>
> So far it seems if you buy a few hundred dollars worth of MESA I/O to
> install into a PC that runs LinuxCNC you will have very little trouble
> getting LinuxCNC running.But step outside that box...

Like to a pi or bbb. Because the odroid used in the buildbot was so 
failure prone probably from overheating, me and my pi3 have been thrown 
under the buss. But I am determined to make the rpi-4b work just because 
its video is 40x faster. I've even considered donating a suitable psu, a 
pi4 and one of heat sink kits with builtin fans for the buildbot. With 
adequate cooling and psu's, my uptimes with the pi3 have been from power 
bump to power bump. I've one odroid-C2, never did get it past the UEFI, 
bricked it trying.

But it appears that wayland is makeing any version of linuxcnc 
unbuildable, yet I'm not seeing any comments about it or progress being 
made. Python 2 support runs out the first of the year, but I'm not 
seeing any moves to use python-3.7 as part of any new release.

So what are the plans just on those 2 fronts? And what about sphinx?, its 
disappeared after wheezy, so we can't build up to date linixcnc docs as 
pdf's.

> I haven't given up yet.  Just rather discouraged at the difficulty in
> doing something that is checkbox based on Windows MACH3 and requires
> begging the supplier for a change.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> >  Otherwise I'd probably sell the STMBLs.
> 
> You would probably find a buyer for one, if you have seen the gitter
> recently. The one that I blew up and sent to Jack has blown up again.

All three of mine work perfectly.  So far.  I'm not eager to let them go.  Part 
of still thinks that one day I'll have a breakthrough and actually be able to 
figure out how the code works.  

> 
> And there's part of me that's being tugged in the direction of an Ethernet
> > Smooth Stepper and MACH3 on WIN-10 with all the issues I'm having with
> the
> > MESA.
> 
> 
> You should do what is right for you. Nobody has any financial interest in
> encouraging you to use LinuxCNC. I do wonder if this is part of the reason
> that Mach does so well? There are folk making money from that
> encouraging its use even for things it is not very good at (like lathes)

I don't think there's any financial interest in encouraging to use MACH3 itself 
and it's a dead product to a certain extent although there are people using it 
with WIN-10.  I haven't looked at MACH4 because I don't like "call home 
software for license permission".

There is on both sides interest in selling BoBs and either USB or Ethernet to 
BoB implementations.  Look closely at what people are using for LinuxCNC and if 
it's not an older PC with a parallel port it seems the only other choice is a 
MESA board of some flavour.  And if you buy a MESA plug in card with 4 
interface cards to make up your BoB then the support is probably great.

For example, look at the chastising I received from the STMBL designers because 
I wanted step/dir support rather than LinuxCNC based MESA smart serial.  That 
there was a large market on the Windows/Mach side was considered imaterial.  
Had to bite my tongue after that series of comments.

So far it seems if you buy a few hundred dollars worth of MESA I/O to install 
into a PC that runs LinuxCNC you will have very little trouble getting LinuxCNC 
running.But step outside that box...

I haven't given up yet.  Just rather discouraged at the difficulty in doing 
something that is checkbox based on Windows MACH3 and requires begging the 
supplier for a change.  

John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 20 September 2019 21:34:51 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 02:15, John Dammeyer  
wrote:
> >  Otherwise I'd probably sell the STMBLs.
>
> You would probably find a buyer for one, if you have seen the gitter
> recently. The one that I blew up and sent to Jack has blown up again.
>
> And there's part of me that's being tugged in the direction of an
> Ethernet
>
> > Smooth Stepper and MACH3 on WIN-10 with all the issues I'm having
> > with the MESA.
>
> You should do what is right for you. Nobody has any financial interest
> in encouraging you to use LinuxCNC. I do wonder if this is part of the
> reason that Mach does so well? There are folk making money from that
> encouraging its use even for things it is not very good at (like
> lathes)

I OTOH, have attempted to make mach3 do the simple things I expected to 
be possible to do on a 6040 gantry mill, and became so frustrated with 
what mach3 could not do, that the whole control box and all the mach3 
interfacing hardware is now on the path to the trash trailer.

Replaced by a vfd that works in both directins under control of a 
5i25-7i76D combo. The 24 volt stepper supply folded back to about 14 
volts when the A stepper was plugged in. And the vfd refused to follow 
orders from anyplace but its own control panel. I did salvage the motor 
drivers and that stepper psu, but I don't have a place to use them as 
the motors I have everyplace but on that 6040 are 3x the torque its 
motors have. I'm useing a quad of 2M542's with a 28 volt 12.5 amp supply 
from the old hf mill, and may yet use its Z motor on the 6040 due to the 
speed limit of aout 20 ipm imposed by that puny motor when lifting that 
1+ hp water cooled spindle motor.

Now I can write the gcode and do it all from the r key, including a 
cooling mist driven by shop air.  All under g-code or mouse control. 
Mach3 couldn't do much of that, not enough output pins. Now I have i/o 
to throw away.

Once I get the rpi4 running the sheldon, next is a tool changer on the 
6040. Got to have a project to keep me out of the bars don'cha know. :)

Mach3? Spit. Linuxcnc is 10x more versatile.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 02:15, John Dammeyer  wrote:

>  Otherwise I'd probably sell the STMBLs.

You would probably find a buyer for one, if you have seen the gitter
recently. The one that I blew up and sent to Jack has blown up again.

And there's part of me that's being tugged in the direction of an Ethernet
> Smooth Stepper and MACH3 on WIN-10 with all the issues I'm having with the
> MESA.


You should do what is right for you. Nobody has any financial interest in
encouraging you to use LinuxCNC. I do wonder if this is part of the reason
that Mach does so well? There are folk making money from that
encouraging its use even for things it is not very good at (like lathes)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,

> There's nothing here that suggests I can swap the signals like Andy
> > suggested for PWM.
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen
> 
> 
> I suspect not. I was thinking that 'table mode' might save the day, but
> step/dir is rather different to any of the table modes.
> 
> But you seem to be driving STMBL drives? So I am very confused about what
> your aim is.
> 

Here's the story.  A bit long.

I have 3 STMBL drives with only one connected to the AC Servo inside the 
Harmonic Drive for my 4th Axis.
The knee has a Gecko Driven Stepper motor.
X and Y axis are currently run with 90V DC Servos controlled with HP_UHU drives.

I did try to use the STMBL for the DC Servos but suppor,t past getting them 
turning, just wasn't there.  I'd ask how to prevent the noise while the motor 
was sitting still and there would be no answer.   That was with them sitting on 
the bench.  I needed to convert step/dir to RS422 before I could try them on 
the mill hence my little conversion board project.So for now I have my 2 
other STMBLs with two extra (spare) drive chips as backup. 

Finding a 2HP 3 phase spindle motor to which I could connect an encoder was 
becoming problematic so I started looked for alternative AC Servos.  Then I 
found the Bergerda drives from China and although there have been some teething 
pains I poured a casting for the small 400W unit that matched torque and RPM 
specifications with my DC Servos.  Mounted it on the X axis.   Smaller, just as 
powerful, and the result is I'm tempted to get a second so I can have them on X 
and Y and maybe a slightly larger one on the knee.

The  Bergeda 1.8kW motor for the spindle works with high speed stepping and 
also 0-10V which is where I am with the PWM control problem right now.  I have 
my hal file configured to put out stepping pulses from the MESA P1 port but in 
keeping with the idea of a simple MACH3 to LinuxCNC conversion project I want 
to be able to run it with PWM to 0-10V  (open loop) speed control.  

I had ordered 5 of the PC boards but got 6.  By the end of the weekend I'll 
have the spindle motor turning with LinuxCNC and MACH3 via the 0-10V PWM 
signal.  MACH3 is so much easier to configure compared to LinuxCNC that for now 
I'll just keep the old .pin file and use DB-25 pin 14 for PWM output.   I just 
want to see the motor turn via LinuxCNC control but I didn't want to rewire 
things.

So I have to make up one more little StepDir2STMBL translator board to drive 
the Bergerda at 500kHz step pulses when I connect to P1 of the MESA.  But that 
will also require a ribbon cable adaptor of some sort because the PMDX-126 
doesn't bring out the second parallel port step/dir pins.  Clearly I'm not that 
happy with that BoB either.

The STMBL is a great drive for motors with odd voltages like harmonic drive.  
The Bergerda AC Servo drives use 220VAC in and that's converted to DC so they 
won't work with a 160VDC drive.  Otherwise I'd probably sell the STMBLs.

So to sum up, I may just spend the money on a couple more Bergerda drives and 
replace the stepper on the knee.  I want to maintain step/dir for motion 
control.  

And there's part of me that's being tugged in the direction of an Ethernet 
Smooth Stepper and MACH3 on WIN-10 with all the issues I'm having with the MESA.

John






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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 00:35, John Dammeyer  wrote:

There's nothing here that suggests I can swap the signals like Andy
> suggested for PWM.
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen


I suspect not. I was thinking that 'table mode' might save the day, but
step/dir is rather different to any of the table modes.

But you seem to be driving STMBL drives? So I am very confused about what
your aim is.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> Thank you.  I'll try it later today.
> John
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> > >>
> > >> (The PMDX126 has PWM on pin 16 not 14 )
> > >
> > > Exactly.  As I've said a number of times now, I have a PMDX-126.  I've
> been
> > > asking to have the PWM moved from pin 14 to pin 16 now for the last
> > couple of
> > > days.  You've said you have a pin/bin file for the PMDX-126.  I've asked 
> > > if
> it
> > > could be emailed to me.  Since that product is out there it seems to make
> > > sense to me that it be included in the 7i92.zip file.
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > >
> > > John
> >
> > http://freeby.mesanet.com/7i92_pmdx126.zip
> >
> >

I'm pretty sure I mentioned a number of times that I'm running the 
7i92_C11Gx2D.pin file and just wanted the P2 connector DB-25 Pin 14 swapped 
with Pin 16.   Nothing on P1.  

Unfortunately the 7i92_pmdx126.pin for some strange reason has step and 
direction reversed from the convention of step on DB-25 Pin 2 and Dir on DB-25 
pin 3.  

Wasn't till I'd loaded in the new .bit file an cycled power that I realized it 
was the opposite.   

Now I know I could go down into the machine and rewire it.  Then go to my 
machine drawings and change all the pin numbers and labels.  Then load WIN-XP 
and reconfigure (just using simple windows and check boxes) to swap all the 
step/dir signals.  

But then the documentation in the pin file no longer matches logically what the 
pin does.  Code or documentation that says "Yes, it states that pin is step but 
it's really direction" is just plain silly.

There's nothing here that suggests I can swap the signals like Andy suggested 
for PWM.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen

So I'm back to requesting a copy of 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin file with only the P2 port 
DB-25 pin 14 set to none and pin 16 set to PWM.  Port P1 can be left as is.  
That strikes me as far less work than swapping all the step/dir signals in the 
PMD126 pin file.

Please?

Thanks
John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Thank you.  I'll try it later today.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: September-20-19 1:47 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:47:53 -0700
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> >>> And Peter, you stated previously that it's more versatile to not use a pin
> >>> file with the PWM DIR allocated.  So which is it?
> >>
> >> It is better (because if you dont want the pin to be spindle
> >> DIR you have no choice if you enable PWM but if its plain GPIO
> >> it can funtion ad DIR or just a normal output)
> >> but you do need PWM on the proper pin
> >>
> >> What breakout do you have and where is its PWM pin?
> >>
> >> (The PMDX126 has PWM on pin 16 not 14 )
> >
> > Exactly.  As I've said a number of times now, I have a PMDX-126.  I've been
> > asking to have the PWM moved from pin 14 to pin 16 now for the last
> couple of
> > days.  You've said you have a pin/bin file for the PMDX-126.  I've asked if 
> > it
> > could be emailed to me.  Since that product is out there it seems to make
> > sense to me that it be included in the 7i92.zip file.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > John
> 
> http://freeby.mesanet.com/7i92_pmdx126.zip
> 
> 
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:47:53 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power


And Peter, you stated previously that it's more versatile to not use a pin
file with the PWM DIR allocated.  So which is it?


It is better (because if you dont want the pin to be spindle
DIR you have no choice if you enable PWM but if its plain GPIO
it can funtion ad DIR or just a normal output)
but you do need PWM on the proper pin

What breakout do you have and where is its PWM pin?

(The PMDX126 has PWM on pin 16 not 14 )


Exactly.  As I've said a number of times now, I have a PMDX-126.  I've been 
asking to have the PWM moved from pin 14 to pin 16 now for the last couple of 
days.  You've said you have a pin/bin file for the PMDX-126.  I've asked if it 
could be emailed to me.  Since that product is out there it seems to make 
sense to me that it be included in the 7i92.zip file.


Thank you

John


http://freeby.mesanet.com/7i92_pmdx126.zip








John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> > And Peter, you stated previously that it's more versatile to not use a pin
> > file with the PWM DIR allocated.  So which is it?
> 
> It is better (because if you dont want the pin to be spindle
> DIR you have no choice if you enable PWM but if its plain GPIO
> it can funtion ad DIR or just a normal output)
> but you do need PWM on the proper pin
> 
> What breakout do you have and where is its PWM pin?
> 
> (The PMDX126 has PWM on pin 16 not 14 )

Exactly.  As I've said a number of times now, I have a PMDX-126.  I've been 
asking to have the PWM moved from pin 14 to pin 16 now for the last couple of 
days.  You've said you have a pin/bin file for the PMDX-126.  I've asked if it 
could be emailed to me.  Since that product is out there it seems to make sense 
to me that it be included in the 7i92.zip file.

Thank you

John

> 
> >
> > John



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 19:11, John Dammeyer  wrote:

So what Andy andn you are saying is if I set output-type to 4 instead of
> one the pwmgen.00 will magically appear on DB-25 pin 16?
>

In the case of that bitfile I think what would happen is that pin 14 would
become the PWM DIR output, and pin 16 would remain as GPIO.
The _definitive_ pin allocation file is the .vhd file, from which the
bitfile is made.

(PIN_C11Gx2_34.vhd)

constant PinDesc : PinDescType :=(
-- Base func  sec unit sec func sec pin -- external DB25
IOPortTag & x"00" & NullTag & NullPin, -- I/O 00 PIN 1 Spindle start just
GPIO
IOPortTag & x"00" & PWMTag & PWMAOutPin, -- I/O 01 PIN 14   Spindle speed
PWM
IOPortTag & x"00" & StepGenTag & StepGenStepPin, -- I/O 02 PIN 2X Step
(0)
IOPortTag & x"00" & NullTag & NullPin, -- I/O 03 PIN 15 Fault in just GPIO
IOPortTag & x"00" & StepGenTag & StepGenDirPin, -- I/O 04 PIN 3 X Dir  (0)
IOPortTag & x"00" & NullTag & NullPin, -- I/O 05 PIN 16   Spindle direction
or GPIO
IOPortTag & x"01" & StepGenTag & StepGenStepPin, -- I/O 06 PIN 4 Y Step (1)
IOPortTag & x"04" & StepGenTag & StepGenStepPin, -- I/O 07 PIN 17 Charge
pump stepgen (5)
IOPortTag & x"01" & StepGenTag & StepGenDirPin, -- I/O 08 PIN 5 Y Dir  (1)
IOPortTag & x"02" & StepGenTag & StepGenStepPin, -- I/O 09 PIN 6 Z Step (2)
IOPortTag & x"02" & StepGenTag & StepGenDirPin, -- I/O 10 PIN 7 Z Dir  (2)
IOPortTag & x"03" & StepGenTag & StepGenStepPin, -- I/O 11 PIN 8 A Step (3)
IOPortTag & x"03" & StepGenTag & StepGenDirPin, -- I/O 12 PIN 9 A Dir  (3)
IOPortTag & x"00" & QCountTag & QCountQAPin,   -- I/O 13 PIN 10 Input 1
(Quad A0)
IOPortTag & x"00" & QCountTag & QCountQBPin,   -- I/O 14 PIN 11 Input 2
(Quad B0)
IOPortTag & x"00" & QCountTag & QCountIdxPin, -- I/O 15 PIN 12 Input 3
(Quad Idx0)
IOPortTag & x"00" & NullTag & NullPin,   -- I/O 16 PIN 13 Input 4 just GPIO

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:08:51 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

Perhaps I'm really just missing something obvious here.



Ah, if you just need to _swap_ pwm and dir with each other, then that is
actually easy.
set the output-type to 4, and they get swapped:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen


That information is for the 7i43 not the 7i92 and I don't believe the 7i92 can
be swapped around like that. The pin file for the 7i92 only allocates two PWM
logic modules, one to each port.  The 7i43 is probably more versatile and they
can be allocated differently.

John


All HostMot 2 modules (like PWM) are the same regardless of the hardware
so anything a 7I43 can do a 7I92 can also do.

Peter, I don't believe that and I've been pretty clear about which pin file 
I'm using thoughout this entire conversation.


It is true, all hm2 modules are the same regardless of the hardware

_pinouts_ and which modules are instantiated differ on a per
configuration basis




Here's the 7i92_C11Gx2D  HAL file information.  Notice that I'm accessing 
pwmgen.00 which is listed in the pin file as coupled to I/O 1  which is DB-25 
pin 14.   And I'm attaching the spindle-cw to gpio.005 which is DB-25 pin 16.

# PWM gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.scale  [SPINDLE_9]PWM_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type  1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output true

net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
net spindle-cw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out

As I understand it the pin file defines which pins are used for the pwmgen.00.

So what Andy andn you are saying is if I set output-type to 4 instead of one 
the pwmgen.00 will magically appear on DB-25 pin 16?  And then I can set 
spindle-cw to gpio.001.out?


No, that will only work if the configurations pinout has PWM PWM-Out and DIR
pins



Only one tiny problem with that.  I'd have to also change then to a pin file 
that actually allocates a PWM DIR like 7i92_R990x2D.  Otherwise for the 
existing pin file (7i92_C11Gx2D)  how in the heck does it know that I want to 
swap pins?


And Peter, you stated previously that it's more versatile to not use a pin 
file with the PWM DIR allocated.  So which is it?


It is better (because if you dont want the pin to be spindle
DIR you have no choice if you enable PWM but if its plain GPIO
it can funtion ad DIR or just a normal output)
but you do need PWM on the proper pin

What breakout do you have and where is its PWM pin?

(The PMDX126 has PWM on pin 16 not 14 )



John






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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Perhaps I'm really just missing something obvious here.

> >
> > Ah, if you just need to _swap_ pwm and dir with each other, then that is
> > actually easy.
> > set the output-type to 4, and they get swapped:
> >
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
> 
> That information is for the 7i43 not the 7i92 and I don't believe the 7i92 can
> be swapped around like that. The pin file for the 7i92 only allocates two PWM
> logic modules, one to each port.  The 7i43 is probably more versatile and they
> can be allocated differently.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> All HostMot 2 modules (like PWM) are the same regardless of the hardware
> so anything a 7I43 can do a 7I92 can also do.
> 
Peter, I don't believe that and I've been pretty clear about which pin file I'm 
using thoughout this entire conversation.

Here's the 7i92_C11Gx2D  HAL file information.  Notice that I'm accessing 
pwmgen.00 which is listed in the pin file as coupled to I/O 1  which is DB-25 
pin 14.   And I'm attaching the spindle-cw to gpio.005 which is DB-25 pin 16.

# PWM gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.scale  [SPINDLE_9]PWM_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type  1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output true

net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
net spindle-cw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out

As I understand it the pin file defines which pins are used for the pwmgen.00.  

So what Andy andn you are saying is if I set output-type to 4 instead of one 
the pwmgen.00 will magically appear on DB-25 pin 16?  And then I can set 
spindle-cw to gpio.001.out?

Only one tiny problem with that.  I'd have to also change then to a pin file 
that actually allocates a PWM DIR like 7i92_R990x2D.  Otherwise for the 
existing pin file (7i92_C11Gx2D)  how in the heck does it know that I want to 
swap pins?

And Peter, you stated previously that it's more versatile to not use a pin file 
with the PWM DIR allocated.  So which is it?

John






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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> > Peter,
> >
> >>
> >> Actually I have found that its better in general to use GPIO for PWM
> direction
> >> on parallel port BOB configurations so you should be able to use the
> existing
> >> bit file, you just need to drive the appropriate GPIO from a spindle
> >> direction hal pin (say spindle forward)
> >
> > I'm good with that.  More versatile then.
> >
> >>
> >> I do have a PMDX126 config but its not in the 7i92H zip file
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > Would you be able to package the pin and bit files into a zip and email them
> > to me?  I can probably try it today.  If that's the only difference from
> > 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin then it should be simple.
> 
> What is the issue with the C11G bitfile? If its just a missing PWM dir pin
> Thats not a real issue
> 
I want PWM on DB-25 pin 16.  Not on DB-25 pin 14.
Thanks
John




> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 09:24:52 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

Peter,



Actually I have found that its better in general to use GPIO for PWM direction
on parallel port BOB configurations so you should be able to use the existing
bit file, you just need to drive the appropriate GPIO from a spindle
direction hal pin (say spindle forward)


I'm good with that.  More versatile then.



I do have a PMDX126 config but its not in the 7i92H zip file





Would you be able to package the pin and bit files into a zip and email them 
to me?  I can probably try it today.  If that's the only difference from 
7i92_C11Gx2D.pin then it should be simple.


What is the issue with the C11G bitfile? If its just a missing PWM dir pin
Thats not a real issue



Thanks
John







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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 09:22:39 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

Hi Andy,




-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: September-20-19 9:05 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 16:58, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

What would be best is a copy of 7i92_C11Gx2D or 7i92_R990x2D called
> 7i92_PMDXx2D with the DB-25 pin 14 and 16 operation swapped so the
PWM
> engine is applied to DB-25 pin 16 I/O5 and PWM Direction is applied to
> DB-25 pin 14 I/O 1.  Now there may well be some systems out there that
use
> PWM to 10V for spindle motor VFDs and do not use a direction signal so it
> should be possible to use the PWM DIR pin as a general output.


Ah, if you just need to _swap_ pwm and dir with each other, then that is
actually easy.
set the output-type to 4, and they get swapped:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen


That information is for the 7i43 not the 7i92 and I don't believe the 7i92 can 
be swapped around like that. The pin file for the 7i92 only allocates two PWM 
logic modules, one to each port.  The 7i43 is probably more versatile and they 
can be allocated differently.


John


All HostMot 2 modules (like PWM) are the same regardless of the hardware
so anything a 7I43 can do a 7I92 can also do.





--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 20 September 2019 10:17:01 Les Newell wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> While we are discussing power for Ethernet Anything I/O, something
> that would be really useful would be an on-board regulator that can
> handle up to 30V. Nominal 24VDC is very common in industrial machines.
> 5V is not always available. Every Ethernet Anything I/O installation
> I've done so far has ended up needing a dedicated 5V supply, usually
> derived from 24V. Just a thought for any future board revisions.
>
> Les
>
Having destroyed the whole shebang (2 bobs, a 5i25 and a 7i76D with a 24 
to 5 volt buck card that failed shorted thru at less than 1/2 of its 2 
amp rating, all replaced at a cost of around $175 before my G0704 came 
back to life again, Les, I am in favor of the separate 5v supply. I have 
a drawer full of those, but never again will I use one in a position 
where its failing shorted thru putting the whole 24 volt supply on the 5 
volt line, will I have that much max 7 volt hardware on the load side of 
one of them. In fact because I needed the ability to reset the 7i76D, by 
doing a power cycle on the computer, its 5 volts now comes from the 
5i25, and only 1 bob now has a separate 5v supply.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Peter,

> 
> Actually I have found that its better in general to use GPIO for PWM direction
> on parallel port BOB configurations so you should be able to use the existing
> bit file, you just need to drive the appropriate GPIO from a spindle
> direction hal pin (say spindle forward)

I'm good with that.  More versatile then.

> 
> I do have a PMDX126 config but its not in the 7i92H zip file
> >
> >

Would you be able to package the pin and bit files into a zip and email them to 
me?  I can probably try it today.  If that's the only difference from 
7i92_C11Gx2D.pin then it should be simple.

Thanks
John

>



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-20-19 9:05 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 16:58, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> What would be best is a copy of 7i92_C11Gx2D or 7i92_R990x2D called
> > 7i92_PMDXx2D with the DB-25 pin 14 and 16 operation swapped so the
> PWM
> > engine is applied to DB-25 pin 16 I/O5 and PWM Direction is applied to
> > DB-25 pin 14 I/O 1.  Now there may well be some systems out there that
> use
> > PWM to 10V for spindle motor VFDs and do not use a direction signal so it
> > should be possible to use the PWM DIR pin as a general output.
> 
> 
> Ah, if you just need to _swap_ pwm and dir with each other, then that is
> actually easy.
> set the output-type to 4, and they get swapped:
> 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen

That information is for the 7i43 not the 7i92 and I don't believe the 7i92 can 
be swapped around like that. The pin file for the 7i92 only allocates two PWM 
logic modules, one to each port.  The 7i43 is probably more versatile and they 
can be allocated differently.

John

> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 16:58, John Dammeyer  wrote:

What would be best is a copy of 7i92_C11Gx2D or 7i92_R990x2D called
> 7i92_PMDXx2D with the DB-25 pin 14 and 16 operation swapped so the PWM
> engine is applied to DB-25 pin 16 I/O5 and PWM Direction is applied to
> DB-25 pin 14 I/O 1.  Now there may well be some systems out there that use
> PWM to 10V for spindle motor VFDs and do not use a direction signal so it
> should be possible to use the PWM DIR pin as a general output.


Ah, if you just need to _swap_ pwm and dir with each other, then that is
actually easy.
set the output-type to 4, and they get swapped:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:55:44 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

Hi Peter,

See below.


-Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: September-20-19 6:57 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 23:01:01 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
us...@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

I've been bread boarding some circuits and mulling over the PWM to 10V

connection.

Just to review, my project here is to take a WIN-XP (7) MACH3 parallel port
based BoB system and convert it into LinuxCNC without changing any wiring.
I've had that working without any problems.  I can get faster than parallel
port stepping when I borrow my USB SmoothStepper from my CNC Router.

The equivalent approach was to buy the MESA 7i92H Ethernet to Parallel Port
card plug the cable in place of the parallel port from the PC.

However the problem is that under MACH3 I can select which pin is the PWM
and
which pin is the direction and I can't do that with the 7i92H.  I've gone
through the pin files that configure the MESA

They all assign
IO Connections for P2
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir
14  1   IOPort   PWM  0PWM (Out)

And in 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin
16  5   IOPort   None
Or in 7i92_R990x2D.pin
16  5   IOPort   PWM  0Dir (Out)

Reading the docs I can't figure out how to swap the pin functions and create
a
new pin.  Has anyone writing a step by step guide?

Thanks
John


The pin files just list the current FPGA configuration, you would need a new
bit
file to change the configuration, but note that for parallel port BOBs,
the PWM direction signal is usually left as GPIO, so as long as the PWM pin is
correct you can control direction in the hal file.

Here are the current parallel port configs in the 7I92 zip file
7i92_5ABOB_Enc
7i92_MX3660x2D
7i92_5ABOBx2D
7i92_BENEZANx2D
7i92_MX4660x2D
7i92_C11Gx2D
7i92_R990x2D
7i92_C11x2D
7i92_DMMBOB1x2D
7i92_G540x2D

What is the PWM pin on your BOB and what is the BOB name?
(I may already have it done)


I'm using the in 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin but I could use  7i92_R990x2D.pin which 
allocates PWM DIR to pin 16.

What would be best is a copy of 7i92_C11Gx2D or 7i92_R990x2D called 
7i92_PMDXx2D with the DB-25 pin 14 and 16 operation swapped so the PWM engine 
is applied to DB-25 pin 16 I/O5 and PWM Direction is applied to DB-25 pin 14 
I/O 1.  Now there may well be some systems out there that use PWM to 10V for 
spindle motor VFDs and do not use a direction signal so it should be possible 
to use the PWM DIR pin as a general output.

Here's a link to a photo of the PMDX-126.  The smaller J18 (10 pin) connector 
is for their option card which can generate 0-10V and DIR for VFD spindle 
applications using pins 16 and 14 of the input DB-25).  Unfortunately it cannot 
be changed to use alternate pins so it has to be done in the software of the 
FPGA.
https://www.pmdx.com/Images/PMDX-126_1200.jpg

https://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-107

I also have an older version called the PMDX-125 that uses the USB Smooth 
Stepper.  It's likely that if I can get the mill version totally converted to 
my satisfaction that I'd get another MESA 7i92H to replace the smooth stepper 
and run LinuxCNC on the JGRO CNC Router too.


Thanks
John


Actually I have found that its better in general to use GPIO for PWM direction 
on parallel port BOB configurations so you should be able to use the existing 
bit file, you just need to drive the appropriate GPIO from a spindle 
direction hal pin (say spindle forward)


I do have a PMDX126 config but its not in the 7i92H zip file 






-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: September-16-19 9:21 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

Boards are on the way.  Should be here Wednesday.  Total cost so far,

unless

there are duties and taxes, is $22 Cdn for 5 boards.

 If all goes well the ENABLE button on the LinuxCNC display should now

be

able reset the HP_UHU drives, I'll have 5V power for the MESA 7i92H, the
FAULT signal from the STMBL will be wire OR'd with the FAULT from the

two

HP_UHU drives and the now isolated STEP/DIR/ENALE signals will be RS-422
from an RJ45 socket to the STMBL so I can use a short Shielded Ethernet
Cable.

 Next step is to get the DB-25 to RJ45 adaptor board made so the

Harmonic

drive 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Peter,

See below.

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: September-20-19 6:57 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 23:01:01 -0700
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > I've been bread boarding some circuits and mulling over the PWM to 10V
> connection.
> 
> Just to review, my project here is to take a WIN-XP (7) MACH3 parallel port
> based BoB system and convert it into LinuxCNC without changing any wiring.
> I've had that working without any problems.  I can get faster than parallel
> port stepping when I borrow my USB SmoothStepper from my CNC Router.
> 
> The equivalent approach was to buy the MESA 7i92H Ethernet to Parallel Port
> card plug the cable in place of the parallel port from the PC.
> 
> However the problem is that under MACH3 I can select which pin is the PWM
> and
> which pin is the direction and I can't do that with the 7i92H.  I've gone
> through the pin files that configure the MESA
> 
> They all assign
> IO Connections for P2
> Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir
> 14  1   IOPort   PWM  0PWM (Out)
> 
> And in 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin
> 16  5   IOPort   None
> Or in 7i92_R990x2D.pin
> 16  5   IOPort   PWM  0Dir (Out)
> 
> Reading the docs I can't figure out how to swap the pin functions and create
> a
> new pin.  Has anyone writing a step by step guide?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
> The pin files just list the current FPGA configuration, you would need a new
> bit
> file to change the configuration, but note that for parallel port BOBs,
> the PWM direction signal is usually left as GPIO, so as long as the PWM pin is
> correct you can control direction in the hal file.
> 
> Here are the current parallel port configs in the 7I92 zip file
> 7i92_5ABOB_Enc
> 7i92_MX3660x2D
> 7i92_5ABOBx2D
> 7i92_BENEZANx2D
> 7i92_MX4660x2D
> 7i92_C11Gx2D
> 7i92_R990x2D
> 7i92_C11x2D
> 7i92_DMMBOB1x2D
> 7i92_G540x2D
> 
> What is the PWM pin on your BOB and what is the BOB name?
> (I may already have it done)

I'm using the in 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin but I could use  7i92_R990x2D.pin which 
allocates PWM DIR to pin 16.

What would be best is a copy of 7i92_C11Gx2D or 7i92_R990x2D called 
7i92_PMDXx2D with the DB-25 pin 14 and 16 operation swapped so the PWM engine 
is applied to DB-25 pin 16 I/O5 and PWM Direction is applied to DB-25 pin 14 
I/O 1.  Now there may well be some systems out there that use PWM to 10V for 
spindle motor VFDs and do not use a direction signal so it should be possible 
to use the PWM DIR pin as a general output.

Here's a link to a photo of the PMDX-126.  The smaller J18 (10 pin) connector 
is for their option card which can generate 0-10V and DIR for VFD spindle 
applications using pins 16 and 14 of the input DB-25).  Unfortunately it cannot 
be changed to use alternate pins so it has to be done in the software of the 
FPGA.
https://www.pmdx.com/Images/PMDX-126_1200.jpg

https://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-107

I also have an older version called the PMDX-125 that uses the USB Smooth 
Stepper.  It's likely that if I can get the mill version totally converted to 
my satisfaction that I'd get another MESA 7i92H to replace the smooth stepper 
and run LinuxCNC on the JGRO CNC Router too.

Thanks
John

> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: September-16-19 9:21 AM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > Boards are on the way.  Should be here Wednesday.  Total cost so far,
> unless
> > there are duties and taxes, is $22 Cdn for 5 boards.
> >
> >  If all goes well the ENABLE button on the LinuxCNC display should now
> be
> > able reset the HP_UHU drives, I'll have 5V power for the MESA 7i92H, the
> > FAULT signal from the STMBL will be wire OR'd with the FAULT from the
> two
> > HP_UHU drives and the now isolated STEP/DIR/ENALE signals will be RS-422
> > from an RJ45 socket to the STMBL so I can use a short Shielded Ethernet
> > Cable.
> >
> >  Next step is to get the DB-25 to RJ45 adaptor board made so the
> Harmonic
> > drive doesnt have to sit 18" from th

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-20-19 1:58 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 07:03, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > However the problem is that under MACH3 I can select which pin is the
> PWM
> > and which pin is the direction and I can't do that with the 7i92H.
> >
> 
> It seems that the Smoothstepper has a utility that can map functions to
> individual pins, though pins are dedicated in direction (with some
> bidirectional)
> 
> On the Mesa cards the IO pins can all be configured as input or output, but
> this is all set by the firmware rather than configured by a utility. (Or
> maybe the Smoothstepper utility creates a firmware on the fly?)
> 
> To re-allocate pins on the Mesa card you need to create a different bit
> file. (so, once again, the LinuxCNC option is much more configurable, but
> much more difficult to configure...)
> 
> It is possible to create custom bitfiles, I have done it, but it's not
> trivial and needs utilities from the FPGA manufacturer. (Xylinx)
> 
> The pragmatic answer might be a couple of D-sub headers and some
> point-to-point wiring to make a pin-swapper.
> 
> Which pin do you want the PWM to be on? You might find a firmware to suit
> by grep-ing (or using find-in-files in Geany or Notepad++)  the .vhd files.

I may not have explained it well in the previous posting.  My apologies.
Currently the allocation for the PWM section of the FPGA can be mapped (or just 
used as a output) onto the DB-25 Pin 14 which I want for SPINDLE RPM.
IO Connections for P2
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir
14  1   IOPort   PWM  0PWM (Out)

Pin 16 is simply set as an output and I'd map it as the direction for the 
Spindle r if I used the R990x2D pin file it's already set that way.
And in 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin
16  5   IOPort   None 
Or in 7i92_R990x2D.pin
16  5   IOPort   PWM  0Dir (Out)

However, the PWM module from PMDX is hard wired for PWM on pin 16 and PWM 
Direction on pin 14.  I suspect in the source code for the FPGA this is a two 
line change.  And that's all I really need done.

Thanks
John


> 
> I did once consider the idea of an Amazon VM that would build a custom
> bitfile on-demand (and got s far as setting up an instance that could build
> bitfiles, then stalled at the point where a web interface was needed)
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Les Newell]

Hi Peter,

While we are discussing power for Ethernet Anything I/O, something that 
would be really useful would be an on-board regulator that can handle up 
to 30V. Nominal 24VDC is very common in industrial machines. 5V is not 
always available. Every Ethernet Anything I/O installation I've done so 
far has ended up needing a dedicated 5V supply, usually derived from 
24V. Just a thought for any future board revisions.


Les



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 23:01:01 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

I've been bread boarding some circuits and mulling over the PWM to 10V 
connection.


Just to review, my project here is to take a WIN-XP (7) MACH3 parallel port 
based BoB system and convert it into LinuxCNC without changing any wiring.  
I've had that working without any problems.  I can get faster than parallel 
port stepping when I borrow my USB SmoothStepper from my CNC Router.

The equivalent approach was to buy the MESA 7i92H Ethernet to Parallel Port 
card plug the cable in place of the parallel port from the PC.

However the problem is that under MACH3 I can select which pin is the PWM and 
which pin is the direction and I can't do that with the 7i92H.  I've gone 
through the pin files that configure the MESA


They all assign
IO Connections for P2
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir
14  1   IOPort   PWM  0PWM (Out)

And in 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin
16  5   IOPort   None 
Or in 7i92_R990x2D.pin

16  5   IOPort   PWM  0Dir (Out)

Reading the docs I can't figure out how to swap the pin functions and create a 
new pin.  Has anyone writing a step by step guide?


Thanks
John


The pin files just list the current FPGA configuration, you would need a new bit
file to change the configuration, but note that for parallel port BOBs,
the PWM direction signal is usually left as GPIO, so as long as the PWM pin is 
correct you can control direction in the hal file.


Here are the current parallel port configs in the 7I92 zip file 
7i92_5ABOB_Enc

7i92_MX3660x2D
7i92_5ABOBx2D
7i92_BENEZANx2D
7i92_MX4660x2D
7i92_C11Gx2D
7i92_R990x2D
7i92_C11x2D
7i92_DMMBOB1x2D
7i92_G540x2D

What is the PWM pin on your BOB and what is the BOB name?
(I may already have it done)



-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: September-16-19 9:21 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

Boards are on the way.  Should be here Wednesday.  Total cost so far, unless
there are duties and taxes, is $22 Cdn for 5 boards.

 If all goes well the ENABLE button on the LinuxCNC display should now be
able reset the HP_UHU drives, I'll have 5V power for the MESA 7i92H, the
FAULT signal from the STMBL will be wire OR'd with the FAULT from the two
HP_UHU drives and the now isolated STEP/DIR/ENALE signals will be RS-422
from an RJ45 socket to the STMBL so I can use a short Shielded Ethernet
Cable.

 Next step is to get the DB-25 to RJ45 adaptor board made so the Harmonic
drive doesn??t have to sit 18" from the control cabinet.  And then finish the
crucible so I can cast the mount and faceplate for the Harmonic Drive.

 This weekend I also designed a third board that isolates the PC
PWM/DIR/ENABLE signals and translates the PWM to 0V-10V for the spindle
speed control.  This is for the Bergerda AC Servo which will eventually also be
run with STEP/DIR off the second port of the MESA7i92H but I need to design
an adaptor board for that yet since the port pins aren't all used on the second
PMDX-126 BoB.   And my goal is first to transfer a single parallel port based
MACH3 system into LinuxCNC.

 I'd have to buy a custom proprietary board from PMDX to use all the P1
parallel port pins and they consider that part of the board connection
proprietary for their own modules.  So I can't design anything that would plug
into it.  Instead I'll just design a board for the P1 Connector directly to the
MESA and I won't recommend PMDX.  Their loss.

John



> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-15-19 3:20 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
>
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 00:44, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Done that before for RS232 to RS485 dongles.  What do yours do?
> >
>
> Those were RPi bidirectional GPIO level shifters,
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 07:03, John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> However the problem is that under MACH3 I can select which pin is the PWM
> and which pin is the direction and I can't do that with the 7i92H.
>

It seems that the Smoothstepper has a utility that can map functions to
individual pins, though pins are dedicated in direction (with some
bidirectional)

On the Mesa cards the IO pins can all be configured as input or output, but
this is all set by the firmware rather than configured by a utility. (Or
maybe the Smoothstepper utility creates a firmware on the fly?)

To re-allocate pins on the Mesa card you need to create a different bit
file. (so, once again, the LinuxCNC option is much more configurable, but
much more difficult to configure...)

It is possible to create custom bitfiles, I have done it, but it's not
trivial and needs utilities from the FPGA manufacturer. (Xylinx)

The pragmatic answer might be a couple of D-sub headers and some
point-to-point wiring to make a pin-swapper.

Which pin do you want the PWM to be on? You might find a firmware to suit
by grep-ing (or using find-in-files in Geany or Notepad++)  the .vhd files.

I did once consider the idea of an Amazon VM that would build a custom
bitfile on-demand (and got s far as setting up an instance that could build
bitfiles, then stalled at the point where a web interface was needed)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

I've been bread boarding some circuits and mulling over the PWM to 10V 
connection.

Just to review, my project here is to take a WIN-XP (7) MACH3 parallel port 
based BoB system and convert it into LinuxCNC without changing any wiring.  
I've had that working without any problems.  I can get faster than parallel 
port stepping when I borrow my USB SmoothStepper from my CNC Router.

The equivalent approach was to buy the MESA 7i92H Ethernet to Parallel Port 
card plug the cable in place of the parallel port from the PC.

However the problem is that under MACH3 I can select which pin is the PWM and 
which pin is the direction and I can't do that with the 7i92H.  I've gone 
through the  pin files that configure the MESA 

They all assign
IO Connections for P2
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir
14  1   IOPort   PWM  0PWM (Out)

And in 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin
16  5   IOPort   None   
Or in 7i92_R990x2D.pin
16  5   IOPort   PWM  0Dir (Out)

Reading the docs I can't figure out how to swap the pin functions and create a 
new pin.  Has anyone writing a step by step guide?

Thanks
John



> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September-16-19 9:21 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> Boards are on the way.  Should be here Wednesday.  Total cost so far, unless
> there are duties and taxes, is $22 Cdn for 5 boards.
> 
>  If all goes well the ENABLE button on the LinuxCNC display should now be
> able reset the HP_UHU drives, I'll have 5V power for the MESA 7i92H, the
> FAULT signal from the STMBL will be wire OR'd with the FAULT from the two
> HP_UHU drives and the now isolated STEP/DIR/ENALE signals will be RS-422
> from an RJ45 socket to the STMBL so I can use a short Shielded Ethernet
> Cable.
> 
>  Next step is to get the DB-25 to RJ45 adaptor board made so the Harmonic
> drive doesn�t have to sit 18" from the control cabinet.  And then finish the
> crucible so I can cast the mount and faceplate for the Harmonic Drive.
> 
>  This weekend I also designed a third board that isolates the PC
> PWM/DIR/ENABLE signals and translates the PWM to 0V-10V for the spindle
> speed control.  This is for the Bergerda AC Servo which will eventually also 
> be
> run with STEP/DIR off the second port of the MESA7i92H but I need to design
> an adaptor board for that yet since the port pins aren't all used on the 
> second
> PMDX-126 BoB.   And my goal is first to transfer a single parallel port based
> MACH3 system into LinuxCNC.
> 
>  I'd have to buy a custom proprietary board from PMDX to use all the P1
> parallel port pins and they consider that part of the board connection
> proprietary for their own modules.  So I can't design anything that would plug
> into it.  Instead I'll just design a board for the P1 Connector directly to 
> the
> MESA and I won't recommend PMDX.  Their loss.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-15-19 3:20 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 00:44, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Done that before for RS232 to RS485 dongles.  What do yours do?
> > >
> >
> > Those were RPi bidirectional GPIO level shifters,
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> > for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Boards are on the way.  Should be here Wednesday.  Total cost so far, unless 
there are duties and taxes, is $22 Cdn for 5 boards.

 If all goes well the ENABLE button on the LinuxCNC display should now be 
able reset the HP_UHU drives, I'll have 5V power for the MESA 7i92H, the FAULT 
signal from the STMBL will be wire OR'd with the FAULT from the two HP_UHU 
drives and the now isolated STEP/DIR/ENALE signals will be RS-422 from an RJ45 
socket to the STMBL so I can use a short Shielded Ethernet Cable.  

 Next step is to get the DB-25 to RJ45 adaptor board made so the Harmonic 
drive doesn’t have to sit 18" from the control cabinet.  And then finish the 
crucible so I can cast the mount and faceplate for the Harmonic Drive.

 This weekend I also designed a third board that isolates the PC 
PWM/DIR/ENABLE signals and translates the PWM to 0V-10V for the spindle speed 
control.  This is for the Bergerda AC Servo which will eventually also be run 
with STEP/DIR off the second port of the MESA7i92H but I need to design an 
adaptor board for that yet since the port pins aren't all used on the second 
PMDX-126 BoB.   And my goal is first to transfer a single parallel port based 
MACH3 system into LinuxCNC.

 I'd have to buy a custom proprietary board from PMDX to use all the P1 
parallel port pins and they consider that part of the board connection 
proprietary for their own modules.  So I can't design anything that would plug 
into it.  Instead I'll just design a board for the P1 Connector directly to the 
MESA and I won't recommend PMDX.  Their loss.

John



> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-15-19 3:20 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 00:44, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Done that before for RS232 to RS485 dongles.  What do yours do?
> >
> 
> Those were RPi bidirectional GPIO level shifters,
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 00:44, John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> Done that before for RS232 to RS485 dongles.  What do yours do?
>

Those were RPi bidirectional GPIO level shifters,

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> These are some Seeed boards, just to show an alternative way to mount a
> DB25 (which you might have seen before)
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Laqgy9J9DxDAJvQ8

Done that before for RS232 to RS485 dongles.  What do yours do?
John

> 
> It might be worth considering having them assemble the boards, they might
> be able to source 8P8C connectors and DB cheaper than you can.
> https://www.seeedstudio.com/opl.html
> 
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Danny Miller]

What is the draw of the 7i92, really?

I have a 48V Maxwell supply.  I'm currently using a step-down buck 
converter to make 5V.  This means we have to power off the whole 120v 
line when idle, and every once in awhile a user gets confused and tries 
to book LinuxCNC without remembering to power up first and gets a face 
full of weird errors.


The supply HAS  a remote-turn on for the 48V high current out AND a 12v 
100mA always-on supply, which I could buck to 5v at roughly 200mA 
reliably.  I could use a Mesa pin for "Toggle Machine Power" hooked to 
the 48v remote-turn-on.


However the Mesa manual does say 250mA max draw.

That 12v 100mA supply would probably have to be the only supply for 
running the Mesa 7i92 during jobs, too.  Switching to one derived from 
the 48v source is kinda dicey.


Does the 7i92 actually ever draw that much, over 200mA, in max use?  If 
the Maxwell 12v standby line drew 125mA for a moment, will the 12v rail 
fold or just allow it?


I know, I could add a 5v 1A usb supply or whatever.  I'd rather avoid 
adding more hardware though, esp on the 120VAC line.


Danny




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 at 20:39, John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> I may just try them for the other PC board I've laid out.  It has a DB-25
> to dual RJ45 connector circuit.


These are some Seeed boards, just to show an alternative way to mount a
DB25 (which you might have seen before)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Laqgy9J9DxDAJvQ8

It might be worth considering having them assemble the boards, they might
be able to source 8P8C connectors and DB cheaper than you can.
https://www.seeedstudio.com/opl.html


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-14-19 11:15 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 at 18:31, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > Where's an inexpensive place to get a couple of small 2.85" x 3.5" double
> > sided PC boards made?
> 
> 
> As another option, I have used Seeed several times and have always been
> happy.
> https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html
> 
Andy,
I may just try them for the other PC board I've laid out.  It has a DB-25 to 
dual RJ45 connector circuit.  The DB-25 from the Bergerda motors (and many 
other far east ones) to the dual RJ for the STMBL drive.  There's a jumper 
header in between the two sets of connectors with all the traces underneath so 
instead of the standard jumpers one could use Wire Wrap wire to connect the 
appropriate encoder pins to the STMBL pinout.

John



> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 at 18:31, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Where's an inexpensive place to get a couple of small 2.85" x 3.5" double
> sided PC boards made?


As another option, I have used Seeed several times and have always been
happy.
https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Thank you everyone for your responses. 

 I've ordered 5 boards htat of all goes well should be here in about a week.  
Total cost with shipping was $22Cdn.  If I change the two HP_UHU DC Servo 
drives over to Bergerda AC Servo drives then I can see using 4 of them or just 
creating a new custom BoB that does everything I need.  In the long run that 
would take less space.

I'll post pictures of the completed boards when they are done.

John



> -Original Message-
> From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
> Sent: September-13-19 11:50 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> I use oshpark.com or jlcpcb.com for pcb's these days.
> Jlcpcb is in China, but has very fast turn times and
> very low cost.
> 
> -- Ralph
> 
> From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 10:28 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> Where's an inexpensive place to get a couple of small 2.85" x 3.5" double
> sided PC boards made?
> 
> I've designed a small interface board that will optically isolate the
> step/dir/enable signals before they become differential RS422 for the
> STMBL AC Servo Drive.  Along with 5V for the MESA 7i92H and a couple of
> optically isolated transistors to reset the HP_UHU DC Servo drives.
> The board also can be jumpered instead to provide RS422 for step/dir but
> Open Collector drive for Enable and receiving and isolating Open Collector
> Fault from the Bergerda AC Servo Drives.
> So a whole bunch of features in one small DIN rail mountable board.
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Ralph Stirling]

I use oshpark.com or jlcpcb.com for pcb's these days.
Jlcpcb is in China, but has very fast turn times and
very low cost.

-- Ralph

From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 10:28 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

Where's an inexpensive place to get a couple of small 2.85" x 3.5" double sided 
PC boards made?

I've designed a small interface board that will optically isolate the 
step/dir/enable signals before they become differential RS422 for the STMBL AC 
Servo Drive.  Along with 5V for the MESA 7i92H and a couple of optically 
isolated transistors to reset the HP_UHU DC Servo drives.
The board also can be jumpered instead to provide RS422 for step/dir but Open 
Collector drive for Enable and receiving and isolating Open Collector Fault 
from the Bergerda AC Servo Drives.
So a whole bunch of features in one small DIN rail mountable board.

Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Moses McKnight]

jlcpcb.com
pcbway.com

I've used pcbway a lot and jlcpcb once now.  Pcbway is good but sometimes the 
solder mask seems a bit thin.  The jlcpcb boards I got are good and I've seen 
them recommended elsewhere so they are probably pretty consistent.  Both offer 
24 hour turn time on small boards really inexpensively.  jlcpcb was better for 
my last batch because the boards were a little longer than 100mm.  10 boards for 
$9.70, $18.xx shipping with a $8 first time rebate so I paid about $18 for 10 
boards and had them in my hands in less than a week.


Moses

On 9/13/19 12:28 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Where's an inexpensive place to get a couple of small 2.85" x 3.5" double sided 
PC boards made?

I've designed a small interface board that will optically isolate the 
step/dir/enable signals before they become differential RS422 for the STMBL AC 
Servo Drive.  Along with 5V for the MESA 7i92H and a couple of optically 
isolated transistors to reset the HP_UHU DC Servo drives.
The board also can be jumpered instead to provide RS422 for step/dir but Open 
Collector drive for Enable and receiving and isolating Open Collector Fault 
from the Bergerda AC Servo Drives.
So a whole bunch of features in one small DIN rail mountable board.
  
Thanks

John



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 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look 
for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

(Hebrews 9:27-28)


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Where's an inexpensive place to get a couple of small 2.85" x 3.5" double sided 
PC boards made?  

I've designed a small interface board that will optically isolate the 
step/dir/enable signals before they become differential RS422 for the STMBL AC 
Servo Drive.  Along with 5V for the MESA 7i92H and a couple of optically 
isolated transistors to reset the HP_UHU DC Servo drives.  
The board also can be jumpered instead to provide RS422 for step/dir but Open 
Collector drive for Enable and receiving and isolating Open Collector Fault 
from the Bergerda AC Servo Drives.
So a whole bunch of features in one small DIN rail mountable board.
 
Thanks
John

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-11-19 5:50 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> There have been some updates and photos added to the CNCzone 7i92
> thread.
> See
> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/354420-tormach-
> software.html
> 
Thanks. 
He's done a nice job on his install.
I do agree with the one comment that the MESA up/down for jumpers is a bit 
confusing.  

Should be able to get back to this in a day or so.  I'm in the middle of laying 
out a small interface board that combines and redirects a number of the 
different signals changing TTL signals to RS422 and adding optical 4N25's to 
serve as Open Collector switches for things like reset and fault to the various 
drives.

At the rate this is going I might as well design my own BoB for my specific 
hardware.

John

> 
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Ken Strauss]

There have been some updates and photos added to the CNCzone 7i92 thread.
See
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/354420-tormach-software.ht
ml


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 11:16 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
>
> Thanks.  At the moment I'm running it from a small AC to 5V adaptor but
> that's one more thing plugged into AC power. I do have a 5V output from
the
> BoB that I can use.  Just have to wire it into the 7i92H.
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> > Sent: September-09-19 3:52 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > Yes you can run it using a supply derived from 24V. In my opinion it is
> > better that way as it keeps the computer isolated from the potentially
> > noisy system ground.
> >
> > Les
> >
> > On 09/09/2019 04:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB
> > definitely couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB
> > optically isolates the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or
expects the
> > motor driver to do it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an
isolated
> > supply that is not connected to the PC side.
> > >
> > > Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V
> power
> > into the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC
> > ground?  Or can the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose ground
> is
> > not common with the PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I
> > recall something about PCs using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet
> > connector but I don't remember for sure.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks.  Very useful link.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-09-19 8:23 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> Or power the BoB from the 7i92. See
> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/354420-tormach-
> software.html
>  for another user's approach.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 11:16 AM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > Thanks.  At the moment I'm running it from a small AC to 5V adaptor but
> that's
> > one more thing plugged into AC power. I do have a 5V output from the BoB
> that
> > I can use.  Just have to wire it into the 7i92H.
> > John
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-----
> > > From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> > > Sent: September-09-19 3:52 AM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> > >
> > > Yes you can run it using a supply derived from 24V. In my opinion it is
> > > better that way as it keeps the computer isolated from the potentially
> > > noisy system ground.
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > > On 09/09/2019 04:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB
> > > definitely couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB
> > > optically isolates the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or
> expects the
> > > motor driver to do it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an
> isolated
> > > supply that is not connected to the PC side.
> > > >
> > > > Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V
> power
> > > into the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC
> > > ground?  Or can the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose
> ground
> is
> > > not common with the PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I
> > > recall something about PCs using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet
> > > connector but I don't remember for sure.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Ken Strauss]

Or power the BoB from the 7i92. See
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/354420-tormach-software.ht
ml for another user's approach.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 11:16 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
>
> Thanks.  At the moment I'm running it from a small AC to 5V adaptor but
that's
> one more thing plugged into AC power. I do have a 5V output from the BoB
that
> I can use.  Just have to wire it into the 7i92H.
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> > Sent: September-09-19 3:52 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > Yes you can run it using a supply derived from 24V. In my opinion it is
> > better that way as it keeps the computer isolated from the potentially
> > noisy system ground.
> >
> > Les
> >
> > On 09/09/2019 04:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB
> > definitely couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB
> > optically isolates the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or
expects the
> > motor driver to do it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an
isolated
> > supply that is not connected to the PC side.
> > >
> > > Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V
power
> > into the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC
> > ground?  Or can the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose ground
is
> > not common with the PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I
> > recall something about PCs using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet
> > connector but I don't remember for sure.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks.  At the moment I'm running it from a small AC to 5V adaptor but that's 
one more thing plugged into AC power. I do have a 5V output from the BoB that I 
can use.  Just have to wire it into the 7i92H.  
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: September-09-19 3:52 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> Yes you can run it using a supply derived from 24V. In my opinion it is
> better that way as it keeps the computer isolated from the potentially
> noisy system ground.
> 
> Les
> 
> On 09/09/2019 04:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB
> definitely couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB
> optically isolates the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or expects the
> motor driver to do it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an isolated
> supply that is not connected to the PC side.
> >
> > Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V power
> into the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC
> ground?  Or can the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose ground is
> not common with the PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I
> recall something about PCs using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet
> connector but I don't remember for sure.
> >
> > John
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Les Newell]

Yes you can run it using a supply derived from 24V. In my opinion it is 
better that way as it keeps the computer isolated from the potentially 
noisy system ground.


Les

On 09/09/2019 04:30, John Dammeyer wrote:

Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB definitely 
couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB optically isolates 
the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or expects the motor driver to do 
it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an isolated supply that is not 
connected to the PC side.

Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V power into 
the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC ground?  Or can 
the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose ground is not common with the 
PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I recall something about PCs 
using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet connector but I don't remember for 
sure.

John





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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[John Dammeyer]

I think I've answered my own question with this link.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/303305/why-is-an-ethernet-cable-not-grounded


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September-08-19 8:31 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> 
> Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB definitely
> couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB optically
> isolates the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or expects the motor
> driver to do it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an isolated supply
> that is not connected to the PC side.
> 
> Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V power
> into the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC
> ground?  Or can the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose ground is
> not common with the PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I
> recall something about PCs using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet
> connector but I don't remember for sure.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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