Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Eric Keller]

Those are really nice.  I have some harmonic drives from a robot.  I have
always thought I have enough structure left over from the robot to make a
4th axis, but I really like your casting. They have mating DC motors and
the pinout is right there on the motor.

There used to be a foundry fairly close to here that would do one-off jobs,
but I have doubts that they are still around

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:15 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 24 May 2017 at 09:13, Marcus Bowman
>  wrote:
> > Which foundry did you use?
>
> AJD in Brierley Hill. He seems happiest doing one-offs.
> https://plus.google.com/117843202793672038457
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 24 May 2017 at 09:13, Marcus Bowman
 wrote:
> Which foundry did you use?

AJD in Brierley Hill. He seems happiest doing one-offs.
https://plus.google.com/117843202793672038457


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[John Figie]

Thanks for sharing your work.  It looks really nice and professional.  You
are ambitious.

On May 24, 2017 3:20 AM, "Marcus Bowman" <
marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

>
> On 24 May 2017, at 08:29, andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert  wrote:
> >>I really like your Idea of using the Cam lock approach for a 4Axis
> >> chuck adapter.
> >
> > FWIW, I have this mechanically complete now:
> > http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2017/05/harmonic.html
> >
>
> Nice work. I had investigated the harmonic drives but was put off by the
> fearful price. I see they are available in low cost Chinese 4th axes, but I
> suppose you get what you pay for, as ever.
>
> Which foundry did you use?
>
> Marcus
>
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > 
> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 May 2017, at 08:29, andy pugh wrote:

> On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert  wrote:
>>I really like your Idea of using the Cam lock approach for a 4Axis
>> chuck adapter.
> 
> FWIW, I have this mechanically complete now:
> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2017/05/harmonic.html
> 

Nice work. I had investigated the harmonic drives but was put off by the 
fearful price. I see they are available in low cost Chinese 4th axes, but I 
suppose you get what you pay for, as ever.

Which foundry did you use?

Marcus

> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert  wrote:
> I really like your Idea of using the Cam lock approach for a 4Axis
> chuck adapter.

FWIW, I have this mechanically complete now:
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2017/05/harmonic.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 3 April 2017 at 22:06, hubert  wrote:

> Thank you for the the 3D-model of a split D1-5 model spindle nose.
> What was your source of the D1-5 dimensions?

I have a copy of the ISO standard.

> Since I am doing this for an FHA-40C my PCD is 112MM right under the
> CAMS.  In this case
> I think I will be using a thicker bottom plate and counter sinking some
> Flat Head M10 bolts.
> How much material would you recommend between the head of the bolt and
> the Mounting plate, I am a computer engineer not a mechanical engineer.

I would say that there isn't much to be gained by having a lot more
than the thickness of the bolt head.
It might be interesting to model it and do the FEA to find out whether
my guess there is correct.

I am not technically an engineer either, despite having "Senior
Engineer" as a job title :-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 10:01 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>
> I have modelled the D1-5 nose and attempted to fit the 74mm PCD holes
> in. It's not pretty. two of the holes are impossible, I think, and the
> others need to be counterbored so deep that the heads are lower than
> the D1 cams (or they have to go through them). And they eat into the
> retaining taper.
> http://a360.co/2nMOEnm should let you view the 3D-model of the D1-4.
>
> I think that the answer would be to make the dummy-spindle-nose in two
> parts, one that bolts to the harmonic drive, and then a second section
> that bolts to that which has the taper.
> (then in-situ grind the locating taper, ideally).
>
Thank you for the the 3D-model of a split D1-5 model spindle nose.
What was your source of the D1-5 dimensions?
Since I am doing this for an FHA-40C my PCD is 112MM right under the 
CAMS.  In this case
I think I will be using a thicker bottom plate and counter sinking some 
Flat Head M10 bolts.
How much material would you recommend between the head of the bolt and 
the Mounting plate, I am a computer engineer not a mechanical engineer.
I am planning to use the center piece that I am carving out of the 11" 
dia x 3" thick grey cast Iron round, that I am using to make the housing 
for my actuator.  This should leave me about a 160mm x 76.2mm of stock 
to make the two piece nose.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Hubert

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 24 March 2017 at 05:20, hubert  wrote:
> If I am reading this manual correctly this Actuator is 4 wire
> incremental pulse.  What are you using for a driver?

Mine is the B-version. That has 15 wires back from the encoder. (6
differential signals for ABZ and UVW and power/gnd)
I intend to use a STMBL driver, but there are lots of other options
for the B-model. I am nit sure what works with the C-model.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 5:38 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 22:20, hubert  wrote:
>> My Bad it should have been this link
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-40C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964401976?hash=item1a11993138:g:3JsAAOSwSzdXCcXg
> Don't rush into buying one. I set up a search on eBay and got mine for
> $250 after about 2 weeks of looking.
>
> And take note of what I say about the encoder unless you get the
> matching drive.
>
If I am reading this manual correctly this Actuator is 4 wire 
incremental pulse.  What are you using for a driver?


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 22:20, hubert  wrote:
> My Bad it should have been this link
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-40C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964401976?hash=item1a11993138:g:3JsAAOSwSzdXCcXg

Don't rush into buying one. I set up a search on eBay and got mine for
$250 after about 2 weeks of looking.

And take note of what I say about the encoder unless you get the
matching drive.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 5:06 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 21:45, hubert  wrote:
>> I am contemplating purchase of this one
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-17C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964389396?hash=item1a11990014:g:jCQAAOSwjMJXCcGL
>> If I read it right it has 100 to one step down ratio and 2500 pulses per
>> revolution, I don't know what the E signifies.  I am assuming that the
>> 2500 pulses is for 1 revolution of the Servo motor, not the output drive.
> Be very sure that you can drive the FHA-nnC variant, I think they have
> a serial absolute encoder.
> The (much older) FHA-nnB have ordinary quadrature encoders and hall sensors.
>
My Bad it should have been this link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-40C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964401976?hash=item1a11993138:g:3JsAAOSwSzdXCcXg


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 21:45, hubert  wrote:
> I am contemplating purchase of this one
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-17C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964389396?hash=item1a11990014:g:jCQAAOSwjMJXCcGL
> If I read it right it has 100 to one step down ratio and 2500 pulses per
> revolution, I don't know what the E signifies.  I am assuming that the
> 2500 pulses is for 1 revolution of the Servo motor, not the output drive.

Be very sure that you can drive the FHA-nnC variant, I think they have
a serial absolute encoder.
The (much older) FHA-nnB have ordinary quadrature encoders and hall sensors.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 21:24, hubert  wrote:
> I think I will buy the camlocks and start there.  I like your split
> model but how would you machine the recesses for the cam lock? ball
> mill?  You mention making a casting.  Do you think it would accommodate
> the 40 MM size as well?

If I was to make the split version I would:
1) Make the part that bolts to the drive. Machine only the rear
register and 8x screw holes for the drive and 6 x for the front half
2) make the part that bolts to the front, bolt it on and machine the
taper with an allowance.
3) Mount on the harmonic drive, then use the drive to index round to
machine and bore the camlock cam holes and stud holes on the
horizontal axis of my mill.
4) in-situ grind the taper using the horizontal axis of the mill.

My casting is only wide enough for the 25 size. Even the 25 is wider
than my T-slot table.
https://goo.gl/photos/E3qxr2sGSaSodqJo8


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 4:13 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 20:33, hubert  wrote:
>> I found this
>> http://harmonicdrive.de/mage/media/catalog/category/1018853_FHA_C_en.pdf
>> reference on harmonic drives
>> and noticed the 25 or 32 etc in the model number seemed to reflect
>> approximately the internal bore of the hollow shaft.  I have some desire
>> to be able to move things from my lathe to the Mill and since the lathe
>> spindle bore is 40MM it sounds like a choice of 40 would be practical.
>>   From the dimensions in the above catalog seem to still fit within a
>> 250MM swing or in my case 10"(254mm).
>>
>> Is this above catalog representative of the offerings on ebay?
> Slightly more dimensions here:
> http://www.harmonicdrive.net/products/rotary-actuators/hollow-shaft-actuators/fha-c
>
> Bores are slightly larger than size-code.
>
> The larger sizes might make it easier to mount a D1 spindle nose, but
> the problem that 6 into 8 doesn't go remains.
> FHA17 has 6 holes, but is probably too small.
>
I am contemplating purchase of this one 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harmonic-drive-systems-Used-FHA-17C-100-E250-AC-Servo-Actuator-/111964389396?hash=item1a11990014:g:jCQAAOSwjMJXCcGL
If I read it right it has 100 to one step down ratio and 2500 pulses per 
revolution, I don't know what the E signifies.  I am assuming that the 
2500 pulses is for 1 revolution of the Servo motor, not the output drive.

I think once satisfied with the 4th Axis I may want to play with an 
FHA17 as a 5th axis.

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 3:14 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert  wrote:
>> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
>>
>> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com
> Do they list the entire spindle? It would save some machining.
That was my thoughts as well they list it but say it is na.

I think I will buy the camlocks and start there.  I like your split 
model but how would you machine the recesses for the cam lock? ball 
mill?  You mention making a casting.  Do you think it would accommodate 
the 40 MM size as well?
>
>


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 20:33, hubert  wrote:
> I found this
> http://harmonicdrive.de/mage/media/catalog/category/1018853_FHA_C_en.pdf
> reference on harmonic drives
> and noticed the 25 or 32 etc in the model number seemed to reflect
> approximately the internal bore of the hollow shaft.  I have some desire
> to be able to move things from my lathe to the Mill and since the lathe
> spindle bore is 40MM it sounds like a choice of 40 would be practical.
>  From the dimensions in the above catalog seem to still fit within a
> 250MM swing or in my case 10"(254mm).
>
> Is this above catalog representative of the offerings on ebay?

Slightly more dimensions here:
http://www.harmonicdrive.net/products/rotary-actuators/hollow-shaft-actuators/fha-c

Bores are slightly larger than size-code.

The larger sizes might make it easier to mount a D1 spindle nose, but
the problem that 6 into 8 doesn't go remains.
FHA17 has 6 holes, but is probably too small.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 2:09 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 18:15, hubert  wrote:
>> SkyFire the builder of my mill offers a complete
>> ready to hook to my Mesa 7I86 8" Harmonic Drive for about $2000.  It
>> isn't my dream solution, but doesn't break my bank either.
> Looking at the spec and the screws holding the rotary table on, it
> might be a very similar drive internally.
>
> But being stepper-driven I assume not exactly the same.
>
I found this 
http://harmonicdrive.de/mage/media/catalog/category/1018853_FHA_C_en.pdf 
reference on harmonic drives
and noticed the 25 or 32 etc in the model number seemed to reflect 
approximately the internal bore of the hollow shaft.  I have some desire 
to be able to move things from my lathe to the Mill and since the lathe 
spindle bore is 40MM it sounds like a choice of 40 would be practical.  
 From the dimensions in the above catalog seem to still fit within a 
250MM swing or in my case 10"(254mm).

Is this above catalog representative of the offerings on ebay?

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert  wrote:
> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
>
> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com

Do they list the entire spindle? It would save some machining.



-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 18:15, hubert  wrote:
> SkyFire the builder of my mill offers a complete
> ready to hook to my Mesa 7I86 8" Harmonic Drive for about $2000.  It
> isn't my dream solution, but doesn't break my bank either.

Looking at the spec and the screws holding the rotary table on, it
might be a very similar drive internally.

But being stepper-driven I assume not exactly the same.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

On 3/23/17 10:01 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert  wrote:
>> How are you  approaching this project?   I am assuming that you
>> are starting with a plate that will be attached to the 4th axis and
>> machining that plate to accept the cam lock studs and cam locks.  In my
>> case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US
>> $36.  Are there any precautions that I should watch for when I attempt
>> this project?
> The basis of the project is a harmonic drive with integral motor and
> through-shaft.
> I have an FHA-25 size, but FHA-32 might be better.
>
> The current model drives (FHA-25C) seem to have a serially interfaced
> encoder, which looks complicated.
> The FHA-25B is a model that HD have no data on, but I found a document from 
> ESO
> http://www.ls.eso.org/lasilla/support/electronics/Documentation/PDF/3P6-DSD-ESO-60400-0001.pdf
> Which gives the pinout and wire colours (if you look carefully) and
> that is a simple quadrature encoder + hall sensor setup and so rather
> easier to drive.
>
> eBay has a few of these drives, at widely differing prices, some with
> the dedicated servo amp.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=FHA-25B_PrefLoc=2&_sop=15
>
> Mine is a FHA-25B-3015-E150C-SP
>
> I am making a pattern to make a cast-iron housing for bolting to my
> mill table, designed around a max swing of 250mm. Making extra
> castings is trivial at that point.
>
> The output face of the drive has a circle of 8 x M6 holes on a 74mm
> PCD. This is actually slightly awkward for a D1-4 spindle nose, which
> has 3 pins and tangential retainers. I could only get 3 bolts in if I
> kept the standard tangential retainers, so I am using axial retainers.
> D1-5 already has axial retainers, but also has 6 studs.
>
> I have modelled the D1-5 nose and attempted to fit the 74mm PCD holes
> in. It's not pretty. two of the holes are impossible, I think, and the
> others need to be counterbored so deep that the heads are lower than
> the D1 cams (or they have to go through them). And they eat into the
> retaining taper.
> http://a360.co/2nMOEnm should let you view the 3D-model of the D1-4.
That looks like a D1-5 to me.  As my starting point I have a 10" Rotary 
table that I have fitted with small stepper.  I will use it to do form 
and fit experiments.  I am contemplating either purchase of building a 
Harmonic drive system.  SkyFire the builder of my mill offers a complete 
ready to hook to my Mesa 7I86 8" Harmonic Drive for about $2000.  It 
isn't my dream solution, but doesn't break my bank either.  I still need 
to do more research into Harmonic Drives to determine what is feasible.
>
> I think that the answer would be to make the dummy-spindle-nose in two
> parts, one that bolts to the harmonic drive, and then a second section
> that bolts to that which has the taper.
> (then in-situ grind the locating taper, ideally).



--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 17:49, hubert  wrote:
> If you look in the GO790 Manual or parts list it shows the part.

Here is a way to make a nose with "embedded" screw heads.

http://a360.co/2mUXk6s

You can see inside with the "explode" slider.

I might even make mine this way, it will let me use all the mounting
screws and makes retaining the cams rather easy.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

Should be GO709

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g0709/parts


On 3/23/17 12:49 PM, hubert wrote:
> If you look in the GO790 Manual or parts list it shows the part.
>
>
> On 3/23/17 12:20 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert  wrote:
>>> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
>>> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com
>> Pity there is no picture to be sure that it is the right part.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

If you look in the GO790 Manual or parts list it shows the part.


On 3/23/17 12:20 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert  wrote:
>> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
>> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com
> Pity there is no picture to be sure that it is the right part.
>
>


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 17:01, hubert  wrote:
> I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.
> http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com

Pity there is no picture to be sure that it is the right part.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

I have a Grizzly G0709 lathe and they offer these as spare parts.

http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090108?utm_campaign=zPage_source=grizzly.com


On 3/23/17 10:01 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert  wrote:
>> In my
>> case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US
>> $36.
> Link?
>


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert  wrote:
> In my
> case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US
> $36.

Link?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 23 March 2017 at 01:23, hubert  wrote:
> How are you  approaching this project?   I am assuming that you
> are starting with a plate that will be attached to the 4th axis and
> machining that plate to accept the cam lock studs and cam locks.  In my
> case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US
> $36.  Are there any precautions that I should watch for when I attempt
> this project?

The basis of the project is a harmonic drive with integral motor and
through-shaft.
I have an FHA-25 size, but FHA-32 might be better.

The current model drives (FHA-25C) seem to have a serially interfaced
encoder, which looks complicated.
The FHA-25B is a model that HD have no data on, but I found a document from ESO
http://www.ls.eso.org/lasilla/support/electronics/Documentation/PDF/3P6-DSD-ESO-60400-0001.pdf
Which gives the pinout and wire colours (if you look carefully) and
that is a simple quadrature encoder + hall sensor setup and so rather
easier to drive.

eBay has a few of these drives, at widely differing prices, some with
the dedicated servo amp.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=FHA-25B_PrefLoc=2&_sop=15

Mine is a FHA-25B-3015-E150C-SP

I am making a pattern to make a cast-iron housing for bolting to my
mill table, designed around a max swing of 250mm. Making extra
castings is trivial at that point.

The output face of the drive has a circle of 8 x M6 holes on a 74mm
PCD. This is actually slightly awkward for a D1-4 spindle nose, which
has 3 pins and tangential retainers. I could only get 3 bolts in if I
kept the standard tangential retainers, so I am using axial retainers.
D1-5 already has axial retainers, but also has 6 studs.

I have modelled the D1-5 nose and attempted to fit the 74mm PCD holes
in. It's not pretty. two of the holes are impossible, I think, and the
others need to be counterbored so deep that the heads are lower than
the D1 cams (or they have to go through them). And they eat into the
retaining taper.
http://a360.co/2nMOEnm should let you view the 3D-model of the D1-4.

I think that the answer would be to make the dummy-spindle-nose in two
parts, one that bolts to the harmonic drive, and then a second section
that bolts to that which has the taper.
(then in-situ grind the locating taper, ideally).

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[hubert]

Andy

I really like your Idea of using the Cam lock approach for a 4Axis 
chuck adapter.  In my case I have 3 chucks for my lathe that uses D1-5 
spindle so it gives much versatility If I could also use them on my 4th 
Axis.  How are you  approaching this project?   I am assuming that you 
are starting with a plate that will be attached to the 4th axis and 
machining that plate to accept the cam lock studs and cam locks.  In my 
case I can get a complete set(6 ea) of locks from my Lathe source for US 
$36.  Are there any precautions that I should watch for when I attempt 
this project?

Hubert Bahr


On 3/22/17 6:40 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 22 March 2017 at 23:33, Dave Cole  wrote:
>> OK... 4th axis chuck.I get it.
> Well, to be clear, a 4th-axis spindle-nose
>
>


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 23:33, Dave Cole  wrote:
> OK... 4th axis chuck.I get it.

Well, to be clear, a 4th-axis spindle-nose


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Dave Cole]

OK... 4th axis chuck.I get it.
Thanks,

Dave

On 3/22/2017 9:18 AM, Eric Keller wrote:
> 3(?) of them hold the chuck on the spindle.  When Andy first asked
> about it, it didn't sink in what he was asking about.  My lathe was
> much nicer when I replaced the cams on the spindle, before that it was
> problematic to get a chuck on and off.
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:
>> Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?
>>
>> Is that a cam lock component ??
>>
>> Thanks,  Dave
>>
>> On 3/22/2017 5:40 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  
>>> wrote:
 I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
 internal corners is a "broach".
>>> Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
>>> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
>>> But this is a short, blind hole.
>>>
>>> I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
>>> £8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
>>> parts.
>>> (Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
>>> defined by the standard)
>>>
>>> I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
>>> through the mailing list software.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 10:39:11 andy pugh wrote:

> On 22 March 2017 at 12:48, Dave Cole  wrote:
> > Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?
>
> I have a D1-4 spindle on my lathe, and several chucks, collets,
> faceplates etc to suit. So the plan is to make my 4th axis with a D1-4
> face so that I can use the same workholding, transfer work to the mill
> direct from the lathe, and use the lathe spindle to centre work in the
> 4-jaw chuck (as centering a 4-jaw on a mill 4th axis is properly
> tedious.)

I have more colorfull phrases, but not for mixed company useage. I have 
an offcentered 3 jaw on mine.  It can set angles for sharpening tools 
but thats about the extent of its usefulness.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 12:48, Dave Cole  wrote:
> Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?

I have a D1-4 spindle on my lathe, and several chucks, collets,
faceplates etc to suit. So the plan is to make my 4th axis with a D1-4
face so that I can use the same workholding, transfer work to the mill
direct from the lathe, and use the lathe spindle to centre work in the
4-jaw chuck (as centering a 4-jaw on a mill 4th axis is properly
tedious.)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Eric Keller]

3(?) of them hold the chuck on the spindle.  When Andy first asked
about it, it didn't sink in what he was asking about.  My lathe was
much nicer when I replaced the cams on the spindle, before that it was
problematic to get a chuck on and off.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?
>
> Is that a cam lock component ??
>
> Thanks,  Dave
>
> On 3/22/2017 5:40 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  wrote:
>>> I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
>>> internal corners is a "broach".
>> Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
>> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
>> But this is a short, blind hole.
>>
>> I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
>> £8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
>> parts.
>> (Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
>> defined by the standard)
>>
>> I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
>> through the mailing list software.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Dave Cole]

Andy,   where does that part go in a 4th axis assembly?

Is that a cam lock component ??

Thanks,  Dave

On 3/22/2017 5:40 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  wrote:
>> I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
>> internal corners is a "broach".
> Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
> But this is a short, blind hole.
>
> I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
> £8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
> parts.
> (Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
> defined by the standard)
>
> I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
> through the mailing list software.
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[andy pugh]

On 22 March 2017 at 02:55, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
> internal corners is a "broach".

Yes, I know. And I have both used and made them in the past.
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/11/the-last-bits-and-pieces.html
But this is a short, blind hole.

I am pretty sure that a wobble-broach would have worked well, but at
£8 + VAT + delivery I decided that I couldn't be bothered to make the
parts.
(Especially as the cam profile appears to be non-circular but not
defined by the standard)

I have attached the relevant page, but I would be surprised if it gets
through the mailing list software.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


D1-Cam.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[Chris Albertson]

I missed the beginning of this thread.  But the thing used to cut square
internal corners is a "broach".It looks a littler bit like a saw.  It
cuts by moving laterally like a saw or file.I think the most common use
is to cut a keyway into the side of a hole that is bored through the center
of a gear or pulley

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[Gregg Eshelman]

Use a rotary broach. The cutters can be found at reasonable prices. The holders 
tend to be stupid expensive. Fortunately there's plenty of DIY info on how to 
build your own.
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[andy pugh]

On 20 March 2017 at 17:43, John Figie  wrote:
> I just saw this last week.  Hemingway kits has a compact rotary broach
> kit.  I am not sure if it can handle a 10mm square.

That was my next plan. AvE has a very quick and dirty variant on Youtube too.

But for this project, buying them seems more sensible.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[John Figie]

I just saw this last week.  Hemingway kits has a compact rotary broach
kit.  I am not sure if it can handle a 10mm square.

https://youtu.be/O2glVyU0_C0

John

On Mar 20, 2017 12:03 PM, "Jon Elson"  wrote:

> On 03/20/2017 10:26 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 20 March 2017 at 14:37, Dave Caroline 
> wrote:
> >> you dont need space for an edm machine the fella down the road
> >> probably accepts folding paper, price depends on qty, I get taps burnt
> >> out for a tenner
> > Well, I just found some with a google search I haven't tried before,
> > and  found these at £14 each and decided to save some time and
> > trouble.
> > http://www.gatemachinery.com/product/cam-d1-4
> > (£8 + VAT + £12.50 fixed-rate postage)
> >
> Ummm, that's a VERY good deal!
>
> Jon
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/20/2017 10:26 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 20 March 2017 at 14:37, Dave Caroline  wrote:
>> you dont need space for an edm machine the fella down the road
>> probably accepts folding paper, price depends on qty, I get taps burnt
>> out for a tenner
> Well, I just found some with a google search I haven't tried before,
> and  found these at £14 each and decided to save some time and
> trouble.
> http://www.gatemachinery.com/product/cam-d1-4
> (£8 + VAT + £12.50 fixed-rate postage)
>
Ummm, that's a VERY good deal!

Jon

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[andy pugh]

On 20 March 2017 at 14:37, Dave Caroline  wrote:
> you dont need space for an edm machine the fella down the road
> probably accepts folding paper, price depends on qty, I get taps burnt
> out for a tenner

Well, I just found some with a google search I haven't tried before,
and  found these at £14 each and decided to save some time and
trouble.
http://www.gatemachinery.com/product/cam-d1-4
(£8 + VAT + £12.50 fixed-rate postage)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 20 March 2017 10:19:49 andy pugh wrote:

> On 20 March 2017 at 14:14, Dave Caroline  
wrote:
> > probably easiest to EDM the square
>
> I would need to find space for the EDM machine.

I do EDM on my little HF mill Andy. But I connect the EDN power wires so 
the currant doesn't have to flow thru the spindle bearings. Most of the 
time I either use a small wire, which is a pain keeping it on target as 
it burns away, or for bigger holes a brass tube, both spinning so theres 
enough jiggle to keep it from sticking.

Or the last time, I mounted a 3" diameter brass disk about .0325" thick, 
and used it as a saw blade to cut a bored hole, already taper threaded, 
think pipe thread but 50 tpi, so I had 6 metal petals the nut could 
squeeze down onto a piece of ball screw. It might as well be welded, and 
that was the idea.  Crossfeed screw for this old Sheldon I'm converting.  

The off intended use of the end tapering of the g76 was used for that.  
Discussed on this list at the time.

For this, I'd mill the shape on a carbon stick long enough you could 
afford the length loss when you face the end square to get fresh, sharp 
corners, and drill a central hole so you could pump fresh 
distilled/deionized water into the gap for debris flushing. The central 
post left by the dielectric flushing hole can be milled off easily 
enough when the needed depth has been reached.

A smaller, but still square carbon rod could also be driven in a square 
pattern in the xy at a high enough rate to circulate the water for 
debris control, while descending a few microns per loop would also work 
and wouldn't leave the hole sticking up. Turn off path blending of 
course. I've not tried that on my small mill as its still doing SW 
stepping at about a 8 to 10 ipm rate, and probably not fast enough to 
circulate the water well. I need to get off my duff and put a 5i25 card 
in it.  And another 12 to 15 volts of motor voltage so it can move. 

Shoemakers kids comes to mind. :(

Tomp can advise how much power you would need to get a decent erosion 
rate.  The most I've ever used in a purely rc circuit was 80 volts and 
about 3 amps into some 1/4" OD brass tubing to drill some holes in an 
Avanti table saw blade, so I could mount it to a rotary table and 
sharpen it. 10 uf discharge cap, a huge paper/oil transmitter spare, and 
2 50 ohm 200 watt r's in parallel for an rc discharge.  Noisy, you could 
hear it for blocks & I put my -30db shooting muffs on.  But it also made 
those holes in the saw blade in about 15 minutes a hole. 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole

[John Alexander Stewart]

Andy -

The guys at the shop where I last worked beside used to slightly grind the
flutes of a standard end mill, leaving (say) 6mm of flute length for
cutting pockets.

That way, the "higher up" flutes did not re-cut swarf, and thus deflect the
tool, and there was no tool rubbing on the higher up sections, either.

They cut many complex shapes used in space, air, water, and underground, so
they were well worth asking for advice.

Maybe that would do for you?
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[Dave Caroline]

you dont need space for an edm machine the fella down the road
probably accepts folding paper, price depends on qty, I get taps burnt
out for a tenner

Dave

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[Ken Strauss]

It won't be quite square but how about drilling small (1mm?) holes in the 
corners, milling out the centre and cleaning up with a small endmill? It will 
be at least as good as a typical 3/8-inch socket.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Kasunich [mailto:jmkasun...@fastmail.fm]
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 10:21 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.
>
> You could mill a 10mm wide x 5mm deep slot in two rectangular bars, then
> silver-braze them together.
> Might not be strong enough, depends on if the OD is big enough to leave a
> reasonable joint area.
> Welding would probably leave a hardened zone and be miserable to machine
> afterwards.
>
> John
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017, at 09:58 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > I want to make some D1-4 cams for a 4th-axis project.
> > These need a 10mm square hole (but 3/8 would be fine too).
> > I don't think I can polygon-bore a square, it needs too much
> > tool-relief. (I guess I should try, though).
> >
> > If I could find something like a 3/8" drive socket with no hole in it
> > that would be a good starting point. Any ideas?
> >
> > I have thought of having a hex hole and starting from an M24 grub
> > screw (setscrew). But those cost about the same as an actual cam.
> > (though the only source of cams I have found in the UK have no stock,
> > or I would have bought them).
> > http://spares.xyzmachinetools.com/XYZ-TRAINER-1330-1340/products/29/
> > lists zero stock at £7.77
> >
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > --
> >  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> --
>   John Kasunich
>   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
> tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[John Kasunich]

You could mill a 10mm wide x 5mm deep slot in two rectangular bars, then 
silver-braze them together.
Might not be strong enough, depends on if the OD is big enough to leave a 
reasonable joint area.
Welding would probably leave a hardened zone and be miserable to machine 
afterwards.

John


On Mon, Mar 20, 2017, at 09:58 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> I want to make some D1-4 cams for a 4th-axis project.
> These need a 10mm square hole (but 3/8 would be fine too).
> I don't think I can polygon-bore a square, it needs too much
> tool-relief. (I guess I should try, though).
> 
> If I could find something like a 3/8" drive socket with no hole in it
> that would be a good starting point. Any ideas?
> 
> I have thought of having a hex hole and starting from an M24 grub
> screw (setscrew). But those cost about the same as an actual cam.
> (though the only source of cams I have found in the UK have no stock,
> or I would have bought them).
> http://spares.xyzmachinetools.com/XYZ-TRAINER-1330-1340/products/29/
> lists zero stock at £7.77
> 
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[andy pugh]

On 20 March 2017 at 14:14, Dave Caroline  wrote:
> probably easiest to EDM the square

I would need to find space for the EDM machine.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[andy pugh]

On 20 March 2017 at 14:09, Eric Keller  wrote:
> make a square broach? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYI1slVGziU

It's a blind hole (and needs to be).

I have thought about making a wobble-broach.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[Dave Caroline]

probably easiest to EDM the square

Dave Caroline

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thing with a square hole.

[Eric Keller]

make a square broach? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYI1slVGziU

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:58 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> I want to make some D1-4 cams for a 4th-axis project.
> These need a 10mm square hole (but 3/8 would be fine too).
> I don't think I can polygon-bore a square, it needs too much
> tool-relief. (I guess I should try, though).
>
> If I could find something like a 3/8" drive socket with no hole in it
> that would be a good starting point. Any ideas?
>
> I have thought of having a hex hole and starting from an M24 grub
> screw (setscrew). But those cost about the same as an actual cam.
> (though the only source of cams I have found in the UK have no stock,
> or I would have bought them).
> http://spares.xyzmachinetools.com/XYZ-TRAINER-1330-1340/products/29/
> lists zero stock at £7.77
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users