Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[Haudy Kazemi via EV]

ehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the
> > complexity of monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer
> Reports
> > gave it high marks for handling etc, they gave it a low score for
> > reliability.  Currently they send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for
> a
> > battery field repair as this cost is built into the price of a pricey
> car.
> > I don't know how this business model will work on lower prices $30k
> > versions.  I'm surprised the media doesn't mention the thousands of itty
> > bitty cells in a Tesla and that no one else does it that way for
> > reliability
> > reasons (even with each one fused) Have a renewable energy day Mark in
> > Roanoke Va Www.Reevadiy.org.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20181008

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Google-Waymo-fleet-tapping-20k-I-Pace-EVs-tp4691363.html
EVLN: Google/Waymo fleet tapping 20k I-Pace EVs
Jaguar's first all-electric car will be in Waymo's self-driving car fleet
Oct 3, 2018  Here's the electric Jaguar that Waymo wants to turn into a
self-driving car  The first thing I noticed when entering the San Mateo
Event Center where I was introduced to the I-Pace was that the dual-electric
motor vehicle looks a lot ...
https://twitter.com/sashajol/status/1047549503530659841


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-3-6M-1150HP-Aspark-Owl-e-Hypercar-r-300km-ts-280kph-0-100kph-1-85s-tp4691364.html
EVLN: $3.6M 1150HP Aspark Owl e-Hypercar r:300km ts:280kph 0-100kph:1.85s
Japan's Aspark Owl Electric Hypercar Now Has 1150 HP and Goes ...
2018-10-04  The seemingly ever-changing Aspark Owl electric hypercar is back
on the auto show circuit after its debut at the Frankfurt Motor Show back in
2017. It showed up ...
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--5ttR-tie--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/fp8hmcn3g5krasj2wj3q.png


+
https://electrek.co/2018/10/07/arcimoto-electric-fun-utility-vehicle/
Arcimoto begins new round of production on their 80 mph electric ‘Fun
Utility Vehicle’
Oct. 7th 2018  Oregon-based Arcimoto Inc has finished testing the first
production series of their three-wheeled electric vehicle. Now the company
is ready to move to ...
https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/10/FUV-header2.jpg?resize=1500%2C0=82=all=1




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: $3.6M 1150HP Aspark Owl e-Hypercar r:300km ts:280kph 0-100kph:1.85s

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://jalopnik.com/japans-aspark-owl-electric-hypercar-now-has-1-150-hp-an-1829527062
Japan's Aspark Owl Electric Hypercar Now Has 1,150 HP and Goes For $3.6
Million
2018-10-04  Justin T. Westbrook

[image  / Aspark
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--5ttR-tie--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/fp8hmcn3g5krasj2wj3q.png
]

The seemingly ever-changing Aspark Owl [
https://jalopnik.com/drop-everything-japans-aspark-owl-electric-hypercar-ju-1823109921#_ga=2.107344961.2138767783.1538492018-1403305057.1536873066
] electric hypercar is back on the auto show circuit after its debut at the
Frankfurt Motor Show back in 2017. It showed up to this year’s Paris Motor
Show now claiming to have 1,150 horsepower and a non-refundable deposit ask
of just $1.15 million.

That deposit gets you about a third of the way to the full $3.6 million
price tag, which is actually down from the $4.4 million price we reported
last year. Aspark, the Japanese engineering firm that’s been developing the
car since 2014, still only plans to build 50 of the Owls.

The price isn’t the only thing that’s changed since last year. Aspark’s
claim the car has 1,150 HP is a huge jump from the 430 HP they were claiming
last year. The company as well claims about 653 lb-ft of torque, via
Bloomberg. Back in February, the Owl set a claimed zero to 60 mph time of
1.89 seconds on racing tires, and expects street tires to likely keep that
time under 2 seconds. It’s not clear what the final motor arrangement will
be on the production car yet, so this could all change again.

The company also claims it has a top speed of 174 mph, a dry weight of
around 3,300 pounds and a range of 186 miles on a full charge, and that’s
most likely only if you’re not trying to break that zero to 60 mph time.

Let’s compare the Owl’s numbers to the upcoming Rimac C Two, which has a
claimed 1,914 hp, 1,696 lb-ft of torque, a claimed top speed of 256 mph, a
range of 403 miles, a weight of 4,299 pounds, a price of $2.1 million and a
claimed zero to 60 time of 1.85 seconds.

For my imaginary money, the Rimac is a safer choice, as it hasn’t changed
multiple times and had multiple announcements of updated performance
figures, and it doesn’t look like it was, you know, designed by a bunch of
engineers. But we’ll see if the Owl can put all of that money to the road.
Hope it works out for all of you non-refundable deposit folks when the car
is scheduled to show up in 2020. 
[© jalopnik.com]


[video  dated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxNW9-5uOwc
CRAZY FAST! Japanese ASPARK OWL ELECTRIC HYPERCAR DOES 0-60MPH IN 1.9
SECONDS
loveforthegame3  YouTube - Feb 18, 2018
]




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 http://evdl.org/archive/


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[EVDL] EVLN: Google/Waymo fleet tapping 20k I-Pace EVs

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://mashable.com/article/jaguar-i-pace-electric-waymo/#ZuZJknjN2PqR
Jaguar's first all-electric car will be in Waymo's self-driving car fleet
2018-10-04  Sasha Lekach

[images  / Jaguar LAND ROVER
https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/g8kObhIlueJBxl481px592RXMDY=/950x534/filters:quality(90)/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F857453%2Ffcd1984e-8e6e-44ed-999e-3c6f9b280794.jpg
The I-Pace is Jaguar's first foray into all-electric

https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/c6SOOoeAR7TdetDjlIK1CW4s2co=/fit-in/1200x9600/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F857458%2F0b3d3cbf-14a1-4fe1-87e0-b8de74cf6867.jpg
An electric interior


share
https://twitter.com/sashajol/status/1047549503530659841
Sasha Lekach @sashajol
I took the smart cone challenge! Took me under 2 minutes and I had just
under 70 percent accuracy going through the cones — it was a pretty sweet
(quiet) ride. #jaguarelectrifies
1:10 PM - Oct 3, 2018 
]

Waymo's self-driving car service is supposed to kick off by the end of this
year, but before the robot cars start taking riders around, you can
experience or even own some of the cars Waymo's using in its growing
autonomous fleet.

Back in March, Waymo announced that 20,000 of Jaguar's all-electric I-Pace
crossovers would be used for its self-driving taxi service. Now the British
car maker's first electric vehicle is here — deliveries in the U.S. start
next month.

The car was on display and available for rides Wednesday just south of San
Francisco for the first leg of the Jaguar Electrifies [
https://www.jaguarusa.com/electrification/jaguar-electrifies/index.html
] experience. After this week the car goes on to Miami, Los Angeles, and
finally New York.

The first thing I noticed when entering the San Mateo Event Center where I
was introduced to the I-Pace was that the dual-electric motor vehicle looks
a lot smaller in person. I was momentarily confused since I had always
thought of it as an SUV. This looked so compact.

Technical design director Wolfgang Ziebart gave a small media group the
low-down on designing an everyday use car that isn't a race car or a
collector's item. 

"The target was not to convert an existing car into an electric car," he
said. Jaguar is already doing that with its classic E-Type [
https://mashable.com/article/jaguar-e-type-all-electric/
]. This is its own thing with a 240-mile battery range that's comparable to
Tesla and Chevy Bolt ranges, a long wheel base, 90 kWh lithium-ion battery,
and fast-charging compatibility. It can get to about 80 percent charged in
40 minutes with public fast chargers, like at free Volta charging stations. 

The design, with a front grill reminiscent of traditional Jaguars but
serving only an aesthetic purpose (there's no radiator, it's an electric
battery and motor in there), is "very much something you instantly recognize
as an electric car," Ziebart said.

Once inside the driver's seat for a test ride, the spaciousness was
apparent. The five-seater has a sunroof that's breathtaking and one of the
most noticeable things when you step into the car. It's similar to the Tesla
S sunroof, but with an even more open feel. The infotainment console wasn't
obtrusive or obscenely large on my right side. 

My usual ride requires a key in the ignition, but this turned on with a push
of a button and I pushed a large "D" button to drive forward — no gear
shifts here.

I then took off with a professional race car driver as my co-pilot. I
must've frustrated him at my cautious pace driving around suburban San
Mateo, but finally at his urging I put the pedal to the metal and zipped up
a large boulevard — and it was so quiet. The car even slowed me down as I
lifted my foot off the accelerator when I was in "high" battery-replenishing
mode. This single-pedal driving is part of the I-Pace's regenerative
braking, which is similar to other car systems' energy-saving methods. I
didn't take it up to its top speed of 124 mph. Nor did I test its 0 to 60
mph timing (it's 4.5 seconds), for me it was more 0 to 35 mph.

Jaguar is the latest luxury auto maker to put an all-electric car on the
road. Jaguar wasn't coy about its competitors — it knows that both the Tesla
Model X and S and the upcoming Mercedes EQC and Audi e-tron electric options
are dipping into the pool of early electric adopters. But it's confident
that it's Waymo partnership and somewhat-affordable pricing (comparatively
to other luxury electric options) will make it a known quantity within the
electric car trend.

The car starts at $69,500 but the more elaborate packages come in at
$85,900. None of that is exactly affordable, but Tesla's SUV starts at about
$80,000 and the newly unveiled all-electric Audi is $74,800, so it's coming
in a bit under. The all-electric Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt start at about
$30,000 and $37,000, respectively — just saying.

Back at the event center, Ziebart said Waymo doesn't have to modify the car
very much 

Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[George E Swartz via EV]

I didn't like the idea of thousands of little cells either, when I first
looked at the Tesla design.

The key word here is "availability", not MTBF, or reliability. The Tesla
battery can withstand many single point failures without affecting
performance or operation of the car, therefore the car remains available
in spite of failures.  Individual Tesla cells are also fused which reduces
fire danger. Single point failures in large format batteries cause greater
percentage degradation per failure.

I had a career in public transportation and availability of rolling stock
is a very important aspect of any fleet of buses.








> Wow, huge misunderstanding of "reliability"..
>
> There is a huge difference between the poor reliability of large numbers
> of
> single-point failures compared to the HUGE redundancy in the Tesla battery
> with dozens of parallel redundancy at each step of the battery.  I'd take
> the Tesla design any  day as being far more reliable...
>
> Bob
>
>
>  On Monday, October 8, 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Hanson via EV
> 
> wrote:
>
>  Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is
> they're
> the only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an
> onroad vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the
> complexity of monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer Reports
> gave it high marks for handling etc, they gave it a low score for
> reliability.  Currently they send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a
> battery field repair as this cost is built into the price of a pricey car.
> I don't know how this business model will work on lower prices $30k
> versions.  I'm surprised the media doesn't mention the thousands of itty
> bitty cells in a Tesla and that no one else does it that way for
> reliability
> reasons (even with each one fused) Have a renewable energy day Mark in
> Roanoke Va Www.Reevadiy.org.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Wow, huge misunderstanding of "reliability"..

There is a huge difference between the poor reliability of large numbers of
single-point failures compared to the HUGE redundancy in the Tesla battery
with dozens of parallel redundancy at each step of the battery.  I'd take
the Tesla design any  day as being far more reliable...

Bob


 On Monday, October 8, 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Hanson via EV 
wrote:

 Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is they're
the only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an
onroad vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the
complexity of monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer Reports
gave it high marks for handling etc, they gave it a low score for
reliability.  Currently they send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a
battery field repair as this cost is built into the price of a pricey car.
I don't know how this business model will work on lower prices $30k
versions.  I'm surprised the media doesn't mention the thousands of itty
bitty cells in a Tesla and that no one else does it that way for reliability
reasons (even with each one fused) Have a renewable energy day Mark in
Roanoke Va Www.Reevadiy.org.

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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[Ron Solberg via EV]

 Quoting Mark Hanson via EV :

I'm surprised the media doesn't mention the thousands of itty bitty  
cells in a Tesla and that no one else does it that way for reliability  
reasons (even with each one fused


Unfortunately,too many folks(Media)go through life lacking basic  
science concepts. For example, few schools offer *Concept Physics* as  
well as a second physics course where the emphasis is on the math. For  
many, who are challenged by the math, physics is not taken. My  
favorite is, Bernoulli's Principle a fun concept that could benefit  
folks if they understood it.


I am told that if the tiny air sacs(alveoli)in our lungs were laid out  
flat,they would cover a tennis court. Our body cells are "itty  
bitty"as is the cell "machinery" inside them. Trees have manny small  
leaves, not just one or two. I have not had a course in biophysics and  
am not an electrical engineer, but I trust the engineers at Tesla  
based what I see in nature. 


Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is  
they're the only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight  
batteries (2170) in an onroad vehicle. I just think of all those  
points of failure and the complexity of monitoring that reduces  
reliability.  While Consumer Reports gave it high marks for handling  
etc, they gave it a low score for reliability.  Currently they send  
a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a battery field repair as  
this cost is built into the price of a pricey car.  I don't know how  
this business model will work on lower prices $30k versions.  I'm  
surprised the media doesn't mention the thousands of itty bitty  
cells in a Tesla and that no one else does it that way for  
reliability reasons (even with each one fused)

Have a renewable energy day
Mark in Roanoke Va
Www.Reevadiy.org[1].

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Links:
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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[Rod Hower via EV]

Mark, You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have millions of 
transistors with the potential of failure, better stick with the bipolar 
transistor!  Good luck with that!
 

On Monday, October 8, 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Hanson via EV  
wrote:
 

 Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is they're 
the only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an 
onroad vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the complexity 
of monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer Reports gave it high 
marks for handling etc, they gave it a low score for reliability.  Currently 
they send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a battery field repair as this 
cost is built into the price of a pricey car.  I don't know how this business 
model will work on lower prices $30k versions.  I'm surprised the media doesn't 
mention the thousands of itty bitty cells in a Tesla and that no one else does 
it that way for reliability reasons (even with each one fused)
Have a renewable energy day
Mark in Roanoke Va
Www.Reevadiy.org. 

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Re: [EVDL] Wanted: Cyclone 4000 watt bare motor.

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

It works with a little massaging...
https://lunacycle.com/parts/cyclone-parts/cyclone-double-sprocket-kit-for-trikes-recumbents-and-pedicabs/


Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ken via EV
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 3:28 PM
> To: Lawrence Rhodes; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: ken
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wanted: Cyclone 4000 watt bare motor.
>
> Your link doesn't work.
>
> I have a 1000 watt 72 volt hub motor.
>
> On Mon, October 8, 2018 4:06 pm, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> > I am looking to convert my Steintrike to electric drive.  I will use a
> > double sprocket/jackshaft to combine my pedaling to a rear mounted motor.
> > This system is attractive because of cruise control and pedal cadence
> > sensors.  If someone has a better option for under 500 dollars I may
> > change my idea.  Thanks for any help.  Links below to pictures of what
> > I have in mind. Will power using 8 Leaf battery modules.  Will use the
> > stock 40 amp controller.  If you have parts I need in addition to the
> > motor I will buy them from you.  Parts needed: 2, 3 or 4 thousand watt
> > Cyclone/Luna motor. Cadence sensor, cruise control, 40 amp
> > controller(larger considered if it is Luna and compatible with other
> > components). Lawrence Rhodes
> > http://www.cyclone-tw.com/recumbent.htmhttps://lunacycle.com/parts/cyc
> > lon
> > e-parts/cyclone-double-sprocket-kit-for-trikes-recumbents-and-pedicabs
> > /
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
>
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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[paul dove via EV]

I don’t think your fears are based on any real data. The prismatic cells used 
in other cars have just as many points of failure they are just packaged 
differently. I cut open batteries and they contain layers of cells all 
connected in parallel. It’s the same thing except the cells aren’t fused like a 
Tesla. If you loose one parallel cell in a prismatic package you loose the 
whole thing. Reliability comes from design and testing. Tesla did all that 
before the made the first model S. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 8, 2018, at 2:45 PM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> 
> Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is they're 
> the only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an 
> onroad vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the 
> complexity of monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer Reports 
> gave it high marks for handling etc, they gave it a low score for 
> reliability.  Currently they send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a 
> battery field repair as this cost is built into the price of a pricey car.  I 
> don't know how this business model will work on lower prices $30k versions.  
> I'm surprised the media doesn't mention the thousands of itty bitty cells in 
> a Tesla and that no one else does it that way for reliability reasons (even 
> with each one fused)
> Have a renewable energy day
> Mark in Roanoke Va
> Www.Reevadiy.org. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
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> 

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Re: [EVDL] Wanted: Cyclone 4000 watt bare motor.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/doublefreewheel.html LR 

 From: ken 
 To: Lawrence Rhodes ; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List  
 Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 3:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wanted: Cyclone 4000 watt bare motor.
   
Your link doesn't work.

I have a 1000 watt 72 volt hub motor.

On Mon, October 8, 2018 4:06 pm, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> I am looking to convert my Steintrike to electric drive.  I will use a
> double sprocket/jackshaft to combine my pedaling to a rear mounted motor.
> This system is attractive because of cruise control and pedal cadence
> sensors.  If someone has a better option for under 500 dollars I may
> change my idea.  Thanks for any help.  Links below to pictures of what I
> have in mind. Will power using 8 Leaf battery modules.  Will use the
> stock 40 amp controller.  If you have parts I need in addition to the
> motor I will buy them from you.  Parts needed: 2, 3 or 4 thousand watt
> Cyclone/Luna motor. Cadence sensor, cruise control, 40 amp
> controller(larger considered if it is Luna and compatible with other
> components). Lawrence Rhodes
> http://www.cyclone-tw.com/recumbent.htmhttps://lunacycle.com/parts/cyclon
> e-parts/cyclone-double-sprocket-kit-for-trikes-recumbents-and-pedicabs/
>
>
>
>
>
> -- next part --
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> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>




   
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[EVDL] ECN Magazine: Taking Lithium-Ion Batteries To New Extremes

[Len Moskowitz via EV]

A passive, low-cost, effective, thermal regulator for Li-ion batteries, 
using shape memory alloy.



https://www.ecnmag.com/news/2018/10/taking-lithium-ion-batteries-new-extremes


-


Just like Goldilocks and her proverbial porridge, lithium-ion batteries 
(LIBs) perform best when the temperature range is just right—that is, 
neither too hot nor too cold. But this is a huge limiting factor when it 
comes to using LIBs in electric vehicles (EVs) in many locales where 
temperatures vary widely. LIBs perform poorly in extremes of heat or 
cold, and this is one roadblock preventing a transition to the wider use 
of EVs. As the authors of the study to follow note, "out of the 51 
metropolitan areas in the United States, 20 areas normally experience 
extreme cold days below –18° C (0° F ) while the summertime temperatures 
in 11 areas (including overlaps with the former 20) routinely exceed 38° 
C (100° F)." Similar temperature variations certainly exist throughout 
major urban areas worldwide, and likewise represent a barrier to the 
uptake of EVs as a potential renewable energy transport solution.


In a recent paper published in Nature Energy, however, a group of UC 
Berkeley researchers report a novel invention that promises to 
effectively mitigate the effects of thermal extremes when used with 
LIBs. Their paper, entitled "Efficient thermal management of Li-ion 
batteries with a passive interfacial thermal regulator based on a shape 
memory alloy," details the contemporary operational landscape of LIBs in 
relation to ambient temperature variations in various locales, but also 
with regard to other confounding factors, such as newer fast charging 
and discharing batteries, which further complicate heat management 
strategies. They note that traditional linear thermal components 
typically fail to manage both extremes of hot and cold, and other 
potential solutions, such as controlled fluid loops, do not provide a 
high enough ON/OFF contrast, not to mention cost and weight 
considerations when used with EVs. Their solution is "a fluid-free, 
passive thermal regulator that stabilizes battery temperature in both 
hot and cold extreme environments. Without any power supply or logic, 
the thermal regulator switches its thermal conductance according to the 
local battery temperature and delivers the desirable thermal 
functionality, retaining heat when it is cold and facilitating cooling 
when it is hot."



To achieve this effect, their passive thermal regulator design draws on 
two key nonlinear features from existing thermal regulator concepts. The 
first of these features, solid-state phase change, exhibits good 
abruptness in response to temperature change, but fails to achieve an 
adequately high switching ratio (SR)—that is, the ON/OFF state thermal 
conductance ratio—which is the prime performance metric for thermal 
regulators. The second feature, the opening and closing of a thermal 
interface, has a much higher SR but relies on the differential thermal 
expansion between two materials. When the interface gap between 
materials is closed, it exhibits strong nonlinear thermal conductance. 
However, because the thermal expansion effect is relatively weak here, 
this design requires an unduly large thermal regulator body to 
accomplish the opening and closing of the gap.


As complicated as the preceding examples may sound, their solution—which 
embodies aspects of both solid-state phase change and interfacial 
thermal contact conductance—is remarkably simple. To achieve their 
design goals, the study authors rely on a shape memory alloy (SMA) made 
from Nitinol, a flexible nickel /titatnium alloy wire which is routed 
around the periphery of a top thermal regulator plate, on which sit the 
LIBs. The ends of the SMA wire, one corresponding to each corner of the 
thermal regulator, connect with a bottom heat-sinking plate, known as a 
thermal interface material (TIM). The top and bottom plates are held in 
opposition by a set of four bias springs, which create a 0.5 mm air gap 
between the top and bottom plates and also hold the SMA wire in a state 
of tension. This defines the thermal-insulative OFF state.


As the battery heats up, the SMA, due to a undergoing phase 
transformation, begins to contract and pull the two plates closer. 
Thermal conductance is very low until the two plates touch, at which 
point the force of the contracting wire is greater than the opposing 
force of the bias spring, and the TIM plate (bottom) contacts the 
thermal regulator plate holding the batteries (top), and begins 
dissipating heat; this situation defines the ON state. The prototypal 
model described here encapuslates the essence of the passive interfacial 
thermal regulator.


To validate the fundamentals of this concept with regard to the SMA wire 
and the bias springs, the study authors built a model and tested it in a 
vacuum chamber, using two thermocoupled stainless steel bars as a heat 
source and a heat 

Re: [EVDL] Wanted: Cyclone 4000 watt bare motor.

[ken via EV]

Your link doesn't work.

I have a 1000 watt 72 volt hub motor.

On Mon, October 8, 2018 4:06 pm, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> I am looking to convert my Steintrike to electric drive.  I will use a
> double sprocket/jackshaft to combine my pedaling to a rear mounted motor.
> This system is attractive because of cruise control and pedal cadence
> sensors.  If someone has a better option for under 500 dollars I may
> change my idea.  Thanks for any help.  Links below to pictures of what I
> have in mind. Will power using 8 Leaf battery modules.  Will use the
> stock 40 amp controller.  If you have parts I need in addition to the
> motor I will buy them from you.  Parts needed: 2, 3 or 4 thousand watt
> Cyclone/Luna motor. Cadence sensor, cruise control, 40 amp
> controller(larger considered if it is Luna and compatible with other
> components). Lawrence Rhodes
> http://www.cyclone-tw.com/recumbent.htmhttps://lunacycle.com/parts/cyclon
> e-parts/cyclone-double-sprocket-kit-for-trikes-recumbents-and-pedicabs/
>
>
>
>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181008/aab0a
> ab4/attachment.html> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>


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[EVDL] Wanted: Cyclone 4000 watt bare motor.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

I am looking to convert my Steintrike to electric drive.  I will use a double 
sprocket/jackshaft to combine my pedaling to a rear mounted motor. This system 
is attractive because of cruise control and pedal cadence sensors.  If someone 
has a better option for under 500 dollars I may change my idea.  Thanks for any 
help.  Links below to pictures of what I have in mind. Will power using 8 Leaf 
battery modules.  Will use the stock 40 amp controller.  If you have parts I 
need in addition to the motor I will buy them from you.  Parts needed: 2, 3 or 
4 thousand watt Cyclone/Luna motor. Cadence sensor, cruise control, 40 amp 
controller(larger considered if it is Luna and compatible with other 
components). Lawrence Rhodes
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/recumbent.htmhttps://lunacycle.com/parts/cyclone-parts/cyclone-double-sprocket-kit-for-trikes-recumbents-and-pedicabs/




   
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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[Damon Henry via EV]

I understand the engineering theory behind this line of reasoning, but I think 
in practice it has not  played out this way.  I guy I work has driven his Model 
S around the Midwest to the tune of 50,000+ miles a year for a couple of years 
now performing onsite service to our customers with no battery related issues.  
Nissan Leaf owners wish they had it so well.  Their cars have been riddled with 
battery problems primarily due to the lack of a thermal management system.  The 
difference in the experience has nothing to do with the size of cells or number 
of connections.

I do agree with you that a solution with less possible points of failure and 
all other engineering being equal is the one to pick, but those are not the 
choices that consumers are being given.  The Tesla is a very well engineered 
car and there is enough real world results to know that the battery pack is not 
an issue.   Tesla batteries are doing well into the multiple hundreds of 
thousands of miles territory.

Damon

From: EV  on behalf of Mark Hanson via EV 

Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 12:45 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Mark Hanson
Subject: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is they're the 
only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an onroad 
vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the complexity of 
monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer Reports gave it high marks 
for handling etc, they gave it a low score for reliability.  Currently they 
send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a battery field repair as this cost 
is built into the price of a pricey car.  I don't know how this business model 
will work on lower prices $30k versions.  I'm surprised the media doesn't 
mention the thousands of itty bitty cells in a Tesla and that no one else does 
it that way for reliability reasons (even with each one fused)
Have a renewable energy day
Mark in Roanoke Va
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=Www.Reevadiy.orgdata=02%7C01%7C%7Cd1f13bec89f84c61f95108d62d569ce1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636746247348859395sdata=9u1itIUVA0QwLP8tNAlr57Aj2s6YhE9qLlDg2IHtfz8%3Dreserved=0.

Sent from my iPhone
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[EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[Mark Hanson via EV]

Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is they're the 
only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an onroad 
vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the complexity of 
monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer Reports gave it high marks 
for handling etc, they gave it a low score for reliability.  Currently they 
send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a battery field repair as this cost 
is built into the price of a pricey car.  I don't know how this business model 
will work on lower prices $30k versions.  I'm surprised the media doesn't 
mention the thousands of itty bitty cells in a Tesla and that no one else does 
it that way for reliability reasons (even with each one fused)
Have a renewable energy day
Mark in Roanoke Va
Www.Reevadiy.org. 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Rules ClarificationRe: (no subject)

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

The guidelines (not exactly rules) on EV business on the EVDL don't say 
anything about where you work being a problem.

Here's what they DO say.

The EVDL is a noncommercial, informational resource. We don't allow it to be 
used for selling stuff. This includes posts that mainly promote a product or 
its website.

That said, where would we be without parts to build our EVs? We need 
reputable vendors and manufacturers of EV parts, products, and services for 
hobbyists. If you're one, you're welcome on the EVDL, but we ask that you 
follow a few guidelines:

No unprompted mentions. Don't post just to mention your products and/or 
services. Bring them up only when an existing conversation (thread) makes 
the discussion appropriate and natural. We're a bit flexible on this for 
long-time members, as long as it's done judiciously and tastefully. However, 
spamming is absolutely verboten. If you subscribe just to advertise, I 
guarantee that you'll be shown the door.

No promotional language. Announce and discuss your products and services 
only in factual, value-neutral terms (like NPR and PBS sponsorship 
announcements). Save the glowing descriptions for your own website.

No stealth mentions. If you're involved with a business that figures in 
your post, say so, and tell us what your involvement is.

Not too often. How often is too? Well, for example, if every time 
someone asks about controllers, you post about the controllers you have for 
sale, that's probably too often.

Support users of your products and services on the EVDL. This is not 
optional.

As best you can, also take part in general EV help and support, even 
when it's unrelated to your products and/or services. Many times, folks who 
build EV components have a long history in EVs, and a wealth of knowledge 
they can and should share with our members. It's in your own best interests 
anyway, because users you help are that much more apt to become your 
customers, no?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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[EVDL] Rules ClarificationRe: (no subject)

[Ron Solberg via EV]

 Quoting Damon Henry via EV :

Thanks for the reply.  I was probably overreacting  to the comments  
about work with Lee Hart's Sunrise as being commercial.  No doubt, my  
enthusiasm about being able to charge 5 Teslas here in our little town  
in MN led to confusion on my part. Since then, nearby Sioux Falls SD,  
has gained multiple Tesla Supercharger units. That said, *for now*,  
our CS 100 units cannot compete.


Ron Solberg 

Actually, the EVDL has never enforced any rules in regards to where  
or what kind of work you are allowed to do when contributing to the  
list.  For instance in my career I have bounced back and forth  
between being a programmer and an IT administrator in the Portland  
Or area and I have never been told I could not post to the list  
because of it :)


Damon

From: EV  on behalf of Ron Solberg via EV  


Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 11:20 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: vio...@alliancecom.net
Subject: [EVDL] (no subject)

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.

Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are
available.

Ron Solberg
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[EVDL] Having it both ways

[Ron Solberg via EV]

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my  
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here  
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.


Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla  
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my  
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am  
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into  
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics  
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am  
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are  
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are  
available.


As a foot note, I own a 1928 Model A Sport Coupe converted to electric  
on a 2001 S !0 running gear. In the future i hope to give it a modern  
battery. 


Ron Solberg
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Re: [EVDL] (no subject)

[Damon Henry via EV]

Actually, the EVDL has never enforced any rules in regards to where or what 
kind of work you are allowed to do when contributing to the list.  For instance 
in my career I have bounced back and forth between being a programmer and an IT 
administrator in the Portland Or area and I have never been told I could not 
post to the list because of it :)

Damon

From: EV  on behalf of Ron Solberg via EV 

Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 11:20 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: vio...@alliancecom.net
Subject: [EVDL] (no subject)

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.

Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are
available.

Ron Solberg
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Ron Solberg via EV]

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my  
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here  
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.


Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla  
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my  
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am  
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into  
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics  
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am  
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are  
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are  
available.


Ron Solberg
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Ron Solberg via EV]

 Quoting EVDL Administrator via EV :

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my  
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here  
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.


Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla  
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my  
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am  
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into  
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics  
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am  
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are  
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are  
available.


 


On 7 Oct 2018 at 14:01, George E Swartz via EV wrote:


I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.


Well, one reason is something that a lot of Tesla owners seem to like.  The
car's too connected for my taste.  It creeps me out every time I read of a
Tesla wreck and some Tesla employee tells the news reporter the next day
that the driver had autopilot on, or had his hands off the wheel, or
whatever.

Privacy is already hard enough to maintain these days.  I don't really want
Elon Musk or one of his minions as my copilot.  (I wouldn't buy an "On Star"
car, either.)

Another is that Tesla is a corporate control freak.  You don't own their
cars, you pay for the right to use them unless or until they decide to
disable or hobble them.

See our recent discussion:

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4691207

Or read Otmar Ebenhoech thinks of Tesla's owner support policies.

https://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/

Finally, I'm also pretty annoyed that they supposedly introduced an
"affordable" EV, but they still refuse to sell it without a bunch of ups and
extras that make it UNaffordable.  Screw that.

And then there's Musk himself.  Need I say more?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Paul Dove via EV]

Don’t kid yourself lots of cars already have many of the features. GPS 
tracking, drive recorders, remote shutoff etc. 

As far as fixing salvaged vehicles well, it’s slightly different than a 
gasoline vehicle in determining if it’s safe for the road.
It’s understandable that they would want to inspect it but in the end they will 
probably loose that fight.  

As far as cost. my friend at work just bought a pickup truck with all the 
bells and whistles and paid $46,000 for it  cars with lots of options and in 
the luxury class are not cheap. A model 3 competes with BMW and Mercedes not 
with the leaf. 

Heck the navigation system is the best I have ever seen in any vehicle. He 
outsold all the luxury cars on the market combined.


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 8, 2018, at 12:32 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 7 Oct 2018 at 14:01, George E Swartz via EV wrote:
>> 
>> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.
> 
> Well, one reason is something that a lot of Tesla owners seem to like.  The 
> car's too connected for my taste.  It creeps me out every time I read of a 
> Tesla wreck and some Tesla employee tells the news reporter the next day 
> that the driver had autopilot on, or had his hands off the wheel, or 
> whatever. 
> 
> Privacy is already hard enough to maintain these days.  I don't really want 
> Elon Musk or one of his minions as my copilot.  (I wouldn't buy an "On Star" 
> car, either.)
> 
> Another is that Tesla is a corporate control freak.  You don't own their 
> cars, you pay for the right to use them unless or until they decide to 
> disable or hobble them.
> 
> See our recent discussion: 
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4691207
> 
> Or read Otmar Ebenhoech thinks of Tesla's owner support policies.
> 
> https://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/
> 
> Finally, I'm also pretty annoyed that they supposedly introduced an 
> "affordable" EV, but they still refuse to sell it without a bunch of ups and 
> extras that make it UNaffordable.  Screw that.
> 
> And then there's Musk himself.  Need I say more?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Yeah, I get most of that.

When the roadster came out, he promised his “affordable” car within a few 
years. I expected about $30-35k. But it is what it is.

As far as the electronics, I think that you’re seeing the future. Both my Mirai 
and Clarity collect tons of data, though there is nothing (that I know of) for 
disabling by the manufacturer. I think he future is going to be all about 
collecting that data. 

Unfortunately, if you follow what’s happened to computers and internet access, 
EVERYTHING is about collecting that data (and selling it!) for “a better 
customer experience.” I still fight it, and avoid giving anyone but me control 
over my data, but I’m starting to think that resistance is futile, to quote a 
great philosopher.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2018, at 10:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 7 Oct 2018 at 14:01, George E Swartz via EV wrote:
>> 
>> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.
> 
> Well, one reason is something that a lot of Tesla owners seem to like.  The 
> car's too connected for my taste.  It creeps me out every time I read of a 
> Tesla wreck and some Tesla employee tells the news reporter the next day 
> that the driver had autopilot on, or had his hands off the wheel, or 
> whatever. 
> 
> Privacy is already hard enough to maintain these days.  I don't really want 
> Elon Musk or one of his minions as my copilot.  (I wouldn't buy an "On Star" 
> car, either.)
> 
> Another is that Tesla is a corporate control freak.  You don't own their 
> cars, you pay for the right to use them unless or until they decide to 
> disable or hobble them.
> 
> See our recent discussion: 
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4691207
> 
> Or read Otmar Ebenhoech thinks of Tesla's owner support policies.
> 
> https://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/
> 
> Finally, I'm also pretty annoyed that they supposedly introduced an 
> "affordable" EV, but they still refuse to sell it without a bunch of ups and 
> extras that make it UNaffordable.  Screw that.
> 
> And then there's Musk himself.  Need I say more?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 
> 
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> 

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