Re: [EVDL] EVLN: How EV packs have evolved> hi-capacity; low price, size

[Lee Hart via EV]

brucedp5 via EV wrote:

Today's batteries have improved on size, capacity and weight since the first
EV. December 12, 2019  Joe Duarte



The changes are evident in charge times, driving range, vehicle weight and
occupant space.


Generally accurate; but there is some incorrect editorializing thrown in 
(as usual). Plus, many of the conclusions are dead wrong.



The size issue dictated that the EV1 (an awkward-looking compact coupe
roughly the size of a Hyundai Veloster) could only accommodate two
occupants, once the space was used up to hold batteries and other EV
ancillaries.


I don't think that's true. "Awkward looking" is an opinion. The shape of 
the EV-1 was chosen for aerodynamics; not styling. I, and many others, 
think it is a beautiful car.


It accommodated 2 because it was a sports car; like a Corvette. It was 
never intended as a family sedan. If you want a family EV of the same 
size and time period, look at the Solectria Sunrise; a 4 passenger EV 
about the size of a Toyota Camry.


The physical size of the EV-1 batteries, motor, and controller was 
hardly any different than today's EVs.



The EV1’s driving range on lead-acid batteries was from about 112 km to
about 257 km. It weighed in at 1,400 kg. When the batteries were changed
over to NiMH, weight went down to 1319 kg and range was boosted to 255-370
km.


The actual EV-1 weight varied from 2200 lbs to 2922 lbs depending on 
which model and battery pack it had. The higher capacity packs weighed more.



That in itself is not much different from the range of many of today’s
electric vehicles, but the time it took to charge up those batteries is very
different. The EV1 took upwards of 15 hours to charge from a standard
household outlet, and three hours on the “fast charge” connection to a
220-volt outlet. By comparison, connecting many of today’s EVs to a 110-volt
outlet will recharge lithium ion batteries of equal capacity in about 3-6
hours; a 220-volt connection would lower that to 2-3 hours and direct
current chargers would get the job done in about an hour.


No. How long it takes to charge is determined by how much power you feed 
into it, *regardless* of the battery pack type or capacity.


The most you can get from a standard 120vac outlet is 1500 watts. This 
can only put in 1.5 KWH per hour maximum, no matter what battery 
technology is used. That's 10 hours to put in 15KWH, or 30 hours to put 
in 45 KWH.


240vac charging is 2 to 4 times faster, depending on the current rating 
of the AC service and the size of the charger -- not the battery pack.


There were 50KW and 100KW fast chargers for the EV-1. I know, because I 
was working for the company that made the EV-1 fast magnechargers.



The ID.3’s 77-kWh battery system stores enough juice for a 550-km range, and
about a half hour of DC charging at a charging station will add roughly 290
km.


I think that is wild marketing speculation.

VW lists the ID.3 pack as 45 KWH usable capacity (not 77KWH), and range 
as 200-275 km. The EV-1 had various size packs (13.6, 16.8, 19.8, or 
40.95 KWH), depending on year and model. The last one is the nimh pack, 
so it is essentially the same size as the 45 KWH VW pack (but 20 years 
earlier). Charging times and driving ranges for the EV-1 were thus 
essentially the same as the VW ID.3 -- 20 years earlier.


> The battery “floor” is made up of up to 12 battery modules of 24
> battery cells each, and the car weighs in at 1,600 kg.

It would be more correct to say the battery is made up of 12 modules of 
24 cells each.


Modern EVs have been putting the batteries under the floor; that makes 
the cars a foot or so taller, which worsens aerodynamics and handling.


The EV-1 put the batteries in a central tunnel, to keep the car low.


And, the compact battery cells in the ID.3 take up far less space than the
lead-acid and NiMH units in the EV1 (or even the lithium ion battery pack of
the electric Golf from 2013)


Not so. The ID.3 pack is about 6 cu.ft. The EV-1 pack was about 5.6 cu.ft.

Teslas have even larger battery packs. When the EV-1 was designed, the 
emphasis was on light weight and efficiency. Today, the emphasis is on 
heavy, less efficient vehicles; they get performance and range with 
bigger battery packs. That's the same thing done with ICEs -- big 
engines to haul around heavy vehicles.



The result is a car that can be used in much the same manner as a Volkswagen
Golf (pretty much the same size) instead of being restricted to urban
environments in moderate climate, as was the EV1 — which is really the
reason the EV1 was killed off.


I completely disagree with this. The EV-1 was a prototype, and designed 
specifically for California's CARB rules and climate. It did its job 
well; maybe *too* well! It proved EVs were practical when GM would 
rather *not* prove that.


There is no question that a 50-state EV-2 could have been designed, with 
more attention to things like creature comforts and buyer "needs" (more 
seats, 

Re: [EVDL] Tesla-connector on 3rd cable from EVgo public EVSE in SF-CA +

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I have seen that elsewhere as well: a dual head charger, with CCS and
CHAdeMO plugs, plus a Tesla CHAdeMO adapter chained down so it does not
walk away and kept in a dry enclosure (think fire extinguisher cabinet with
window in the door)

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 8:27 PM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> % I find this very interesting.
> Thanks Lawrence for letting us know %
> [ref
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVgo-adding-Tesla-connector-to-Chademo-tp4695946.html
> ]
>
> David sez >At the eVgo station at ABB's headquarters in Silicon Valley,
> there was a
> CHAdeMO adapter attached to the side of the station.<
>
>
>  ( ABB's hq in SV )
> https://www.plugshare.com/location/136025
> 3055 Orchard Dr, San Jose, CA 95134
>
>
> Randy sez .I see that station, Bennett, is at 1175 Columbus Ave, San
> Francisco, CA 94133<
>
>  ( a SF Walgreens )
> https://www.plugshare.com/location/37344
> 1175 Columbus Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://www.evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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[EVDL] Tesla-connector on 3rd cable from EVgo public EVSE in SF-CA +

[brucedp5 via EV]

% I find this very interesting. 
Thanks Lawrence for letting us know %
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVgo-adding-Tesla-connector-to-Chademo-tp4695946.html
]

David sez >At the eVgo station at ABB's headquarters in Silicon Valley,
there was a 
CHAdeMO adapter attached to the side of the station.<


 ( ABB's hq in SV )
https://www.plugshare.com/location/136025
3055 Orchard Dr, San Jose, CA 95134


Randy sez .I see that station, Bennett, is at 1175 Columbus Ave, San
Francisco, CA 94133<

 ( a SF Walgreens )
https://www.plugshare.com/location/37344
1175 Columbus Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20191222

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Pleasantly-weird-avant-garde-looking-GM-Baojun-EV-cn-r-nedc-250km-tp4695976.html
EVLN: Pleasantly-weird avant-garde looking GM-Baojun EV.cn r-nedc:250km
This Is The New GM-SAIC Baojun Electric Car
General Motors and SAIC's Chinese joint venture Baojun is known for its
hilarious electric cars, which by the way sell in pretty high volume (the
Baojun's BEV ...
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/GM3wE/s3/baojun-new-nev-model.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-e-Motorcycles-For-2020-Electric-cruising-for-a-bruising-tp4695978.html
EVLN: e-Motorcycles For 2020> Electric cruising for a bruising
Electric Cruiser Motorcycles For 2020
2019-12-14 ... and future models will have a front-facing camera with
vehicle detection using computer vision ... electric cruisers: Curtiss,
Brutus, Johammer, Hadin, Tacita, Evoke ...
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7LEY.img


+ ( Less carrot, more stick> less-subsidies.cn, tight-regs )
https://www.spglobal.com/en/research-insights/articles/insight-from-shanghai-nev-regime-takes-off-training-wheels-as-government-slashes-subsidies
Insight from Shanghai: NEV regime takes off training wheels as government
slashes subsidies
13 Dec, 2019 ... Sales of electric vehicles are down more than 20% this year
as China takes an axe ... Tariffs and trade wars will continue to dictate
global pricing and trade flows ...
https://www.spglobal.com/_division_assets/images/articles/insight-from-shanghai-nev-regime-takes-off-training-wheels-as-government-slashes-subsidies/chart-2.png


https://inc42.com/buzz/tvs-banks-on-solar-wind-power-for-ev-charging-stations/
TVS To Invest In Solar, Wind Power For Electric Vehicle ...
16 Dec'19  Taking another step towards developing the Indian electric
vehicles (EV) ecosystem, motorcycle giant TVS Motors has decided to invest
heavily in clean energy ...
https://i0.wp.com/cdn.inc42.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Untitled-design-2019-12-16T142655.541.jpg


http://www.automotiveblog.co.uk/2019/12/renault-zoe-crowned-electric-car-of-the-year/
Renault ZOE crowned electric car of the year
Dec 12, 2019 ... crowned best ... by DrivingElectric.com ... a big electric
car, in an affordable and compact package ... 
http://www.automotiveblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Renault-ZOE.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Family-in-keen-to-go-on-long-900km-drive-in-new-Kona-EV-kr-tp4695949.html
Family.in keen to go on long 900km drive in new (Kona) EV.kr
An electric car on a 900 km journey
Ever since I bought a brand new Korean-made electric car a few months ago, I
was keen to go on a long drive with the family.
https://www.google.com/search?q=G+Krishna+Kumar+electric




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: e-Motorcycles For 2020> Electric cruising for a bruising

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/motorcycles/electric-cruiser-motorcycles-for-2020/ar-AAK7H0P
Electric Cruiser Motorcycles For 2020
2019-12-14  Andrew Cherney HD-LiveWire

[images  
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7LEY.img
a motorcycle parked on the side of a road: The appeal of electric
motorcycles is that designers have “control over the vast majority of
surfaces,” according to JT Nesbitt of Curtiss Motorcycles, who co-designed
the unconventionally cruiser-like Hades model.
© Curtiss Motorcycles The appeal of electric motorcycles is that designers
have “control over the vast majority of surfaces,” according to JT Nesbitt
of Curtiss Motorcycles, who co-designed the unconventionally cruiser-like
Hades model.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7EE2.img
a woman sitting on a motorcycle: 2019 Brutus V9

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7LF8.img
a close up of a motorcycle: 2020 Johammer J1.200

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7yQh.img
a motorcycle parked on the side of a road: 2020 Hadin Panther

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7LFc.img
a motorcycle parked on the side: 2020 Tacita T-Cruise Urban

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7yQr.img
a motorcycle parked on the side: 2020 Evoke 6061

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAK7BMt.img
a motorcycle parked on the side of a building: 2020 H-D LiveWire
]

The electric motorcycle market has blown up in popularity over the last
couple of years, which means there are way more stealthy two-wheelers out
there than ever before. But most of the current lot favor standard designs
or slippery, aerodynamic shapes that are more at home in the sportbike
world. We realized there just aren’t a lot of electric cruisers out there,
and wondered why—was it a case of electric technology being too quiet, too
expensive, and, maybe most crucially, having a more limited range than
cruising folk are used to? After all, if you only travel 50 miles, it
doesn’t really qualify as a cruise, does it? So we started compiling a list
of those electric designs available in 2020 (or hope to be) that take the
long, low, and upright approach. Here’s what we came up with.

We’ll kick off the list with the most classic-looking bike here. The aptly
named Brutus V9 checks all the boxes with its old-school good looks, and is
backed up by gobs of power and an eff-you attitude to match. The price is
pretty menacing too, but then the V9 kicks out a claimed 125 hp and an
eyebrow-raising 277 pound-feet of torque, with a (limited) top speed of 115
mph. It’s one of the few classically styled baggers on the electric scene,
bringing a 27.5-degree rake, a full batwing-style fairing, and floorboards,
while the supersize battery (choose between a hefty 18.8 kWh or massive 33.7
kWh option) is said to be good for 270 miles if you’re just cruising, or
around 165 miles between charges at a faster pace. Of course, that battery
is also why the bike weighs anywhere from 784 and 886 pounds (depending on
battery size). Prices vary depending on the specs the customer chooses, so
MSRP listed isn’t set in stone.

brutusmotorcycle.com/brutusV9.html#about
Price: $33,000 (est.)
© Brutus Motorcycles 2019 Brutus V9
Power: 125 hp (93kW)
Torque: 277 lb.-ft. (375 Nm)
Range: 168–270 miles (270–435km) (city)

Only because Johammer calls it a “cruiser” right there on its website are we
including this model. Maybe it was lost in translation because clearly the
J1.150 went its own merry way when it came to design, but classic styling be
damned: The futuristic, aluminum-framed Johammer features a twin-arm
box-section fork and is completely covered in swoopy polypropylene, which
hides the air-cooled 14-hp (21 hp peak) electric drivetrain and 8.3 kWh
(12.7 kWh max) battery pack. The motor and controller are integrated into
the rear wheel, and range is estimated at 93 miles for the base-model J1
“electric cruiser,” with an electronically limited top speed of 75 mph (and
only 21 hp). Does that count as cruising? Perhaps; you’re certainly not
gonna set any speed records. The in-house-produced battery packs can be
charged in about 3.5 hours, and you choose from five color options for the
bodywork.

© Johammer 2020 Johammer J1.200
johammer.com
a motorcycle parked on the side of a dirt field: 2020 Tarform
© Henric Olsson-Weller for Tarform Motorcycles 2020 Tarform
Price: 24,900 euro (about $30,900 USD)
Power: 21.4 hp (11kW–16kW)
Torque: N/A
Range: 124 miles (200km)

© Hadin Motorcycle Co. 2020 Hadin Panther
Sort of cruiser-y? The Tarform’s outward aesthetic is definitely not
sporty—you can think of it as a steampunk scrambler with a café racer
attitude. Even though some of the Tarform’s components were sourced from
outside providers, the company says its design aesthetic focuses less on
standard materials like plastic and leather and more on sustainable
alternatives. The bid 

Re: [EVDL] ?Tesla connector on EVgo public EVSE in SF-CA?

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 
Three connectors, three cables

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:34 PM David Herron  wrote:
Hm.. interesting. I did a little field trip after finding that the eVgo station 
locator has a filter for "Tesla Adapter". And I wrote up this blog post.

https://longtailpipe.com/2019/12/15/evgo-offering-fast-charging-to-teslas-on-non-tesla-charging-station/

At the eVgo station at ABB's headquarters in Silicon Valley, there was a 
CHAdeMO adapter attached to the side of the station.

Bruce - are you saying that instead of an adapter there is a whole charging 
cord? (at the Walgreens in North Beach?)

+ David Herron



On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:16 PM Bruce Wolfe  wrote:
The CHAdeMO was plugged into "Marc's" car when I took the pic. There are three 
cables now, one for each.


On Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 7:33 AM Randy Spencer via Groups.Io 
 wrote:
I see that station, Bennett, is at 1175 Columbus Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133

No previous photos on PlugShare.com show anything but a CHAdeMO station there. 
I have seen other CHAdeMO stations across the country that provide the Tesla 
adapter on a cable so you cannot steal it. It looks like this is what’s going 
on here, only the adapter is super-long and it’s cable hangs where the CHAdeMO 
used to, and the CHAdeMO is now plugged into the adapter when not in use, in 
order to provide the Tesla with power. Smart

I have 
  
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[EVDL] EVLN: Pleasantly-weird avant-garde looking GM-Baojun EV.cn r-nedc:250km

[brucedp5 via EV]

 ( % abbreviation term.cn NEV used for new energy vehicle % )
https://insideevs.com/news/387389/new-gm-saic-baojun-electric-car/
This Is The New GM-SAIC Baojun Electric Car
DEC 14, 2019  Mark Kane

[images  
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/GM3wE/s3/baojun-new-nev-model.jpg
 GM-SAIC Baojun

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/RWqze/s1/baojun-new-nev-model.jpg

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/Z3nBA/s1/baojun-new-nev-model.jpg
]

Meet Baojun’s "new interstellar geometry design language."
General Motors and SAIC's Chinese joint venture Baojun is known for its
hilarious electric cars, which by the way sell in pretty high volume (the
Baojun's BEV series is already the 3rd most popular this year with nearly
42,000 sold by the end of October).

The latest model, unveiled this week, did not get a name yet, but looks
pleasantly weird. It's another affordable two-seater for use in big cities,
which are not lacking in China.

"On December 8, Baojun showed the first images of its newest new energy
vehicle (NEV). The new model, whose name will be revealed later, inherits
Baojun’s new interstellar geometry design language."

We expect that the new model will be all-electric with a range of no less
than 250 km (155 miles) NEDC, but all we know today is a few words about the
design:

"Its avant-garde split body design and two-tone exterior have a futuristic
look that will appeal to younger consumers. The hui (?) character shape of
the front bumper echoes the pattern of radar waves, making the vehicle
highly recognizable while hinting at the intelligent technology inside.

The bottom of the doors are made from scratch-proof material. Their flat
styling expresses a full sense of technology. The hidden door handles and
cruciform wheel design add to the model’s attractiveness while reducing wind
resistance – a major advantage for any NEV.

Baojun’s continued introduction of NEVs (which also include the E100 and
E200 electric vehicles) complements the growth of its advanced intelligent
family of vehicles featuring conventional powertrains. It is creating more
transportation solutions for China’s consumers."
[© insideevs.com]
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=Baojun=date
 search evdl on  Baojun


+ ( Less carrot, more stick> less-subsidies.cn, tight-regs )
https://www.spglobal.com/en/research-insights/articles/insight-from-shanghai-nev-regime-takes-off-training-wheels-as-government-slashes-subsidies
Insight from Shanghai: NEV regime takes off training wheels as government
slashes subsidies
13 Dec, 2019 ... Sales of electric vehicles are down more than 20% this year
as China takes an axe ... Tariffs and trade wars will continue to dictate
global pricing and trade flows ...
https://www.spglobal.com/_division_assets/images/articles/insight-from-shanghai-nev-regime-takes-off-training-wheels-as-government-slashes-subsidies/chart-2.png




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20191221

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Get-a-sweeter-used-EV-deal-than-stuck-w-an-old-ice-headache-tp4695973.html
EVLN: Get a sweeter used-EV deal than stuck w/ an old ice-headache
Second-Hand Electric Cars Are Better to Get Than Gas-Powered Cars For These
Reasons
Dec 12, 2019 ... The cost is more pocket-friendly compared to a new EV or
gas-powered car ... cost is more pocket-friendly compared to a new EV ...
gas cars is the repairs to restore it to running condition ...
https://1506015687.rsc.cdn77.org/data/images/full/43002/second-hand-electric-cars-are-better-to-get-than-gas-powered-cars-here-are-the-benefits.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-spied-Tesla-Y-prototype-on-test-track-tp4695974.html
EVLN: (spied) Tesla-Y prototype on test track
Watch Tesla launch Model Y prototype on test track in spy video
2019/12/12  In March, Tesla unveiled the Model Y, an all-electric crossover
based on Model 3, with up to 300 miles of range ...
https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/Tesla-Model-Y-prototype-fremont-factory.jpg


+
https://blog.motorcycle.com/2019/12/12/motorcycle-news/rent-a-livewire-in-la-or-san-francisco/
Rent a LiveWire in LA or San Francisco
December 12, 2019  With more than 2,300 motorcycles for short- or long-term
rental, Twisted Road has ... Harley-Davidson's new LiveWire electric
motorcycles ...
https://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Screen-Shot-2019-12-12-at-9.08.42-AM-633x388.png


https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/tesla-s-controversial-cybertruck-not-road-legal-in-europe/
Tesla's controversial Cybertruck 'not road-legal' in Europe
17/12/2019 ... Germany's SGS-TÜV Saarland is worried about how it will react
in an accident with another vehicle, or when a pedestrian is struck ... the
lack of crumple zones, the body has absolutely no give, and the energy of a
collision will act on the occupants directly ...
https://www.driven.co.nz/media/15809/cybertruck10.jpg


https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-becomes-lapd-hollywood-divisions-latest-patrol-car/
Tesla Model S becomes LAPD Hollywood Division’s latest patrol car
December 11, 2019  The LAPD announced the move on its Twitter account, with
Captain Steve Lurie inviting citizens to say hi if they spot them ...
https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/LAPD-Hollywood-Division-Tesla-Model-S-Patrol-Car-1376x1032.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tesla-3-EV-dashcam-shows-signal-reflection-beats-171-ticket-tp4695948.html
Tesla-3 EV dashcam shows signal reflection> beats $171 ticket
Tesla’s built-in dashcam saves Model 3 owner from strange traffic citation
December 14, 2019 ... and he issued a traffic ticket worth $171 for “Failure
to Signal for Turn or Lane Change.” A video uploaded on the Tesla ...
https://twitter.com/pmoconne/status/1205536190151180288




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EVLN: (spied) Tesla-Y prototype on test track

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://electrek.co/2019/12/12/tesla-model-y-prototype-test-track-spy-video/
Watch Tesla launch Model Y prototype on test track in spy video
Dec. 12th 2019  Fred Lambert

[image  
https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/Tesla-Model-Y-prototype-fremont-factory.jpg


shares
https://twitter.com/ksumnole420/status/1204279581433139201
@ksumnole420
Was Trip Chowdhry really filming this on Saturday? Or was it Sunday? I
caught a mY on the track doing a lap on the 8th and it was hardly windy or
rainy.  Trip’s video looks oddly similar to the conditions when I was here:
overcast and slightly wet but drying.   You be the judge.
https://t.co/w4UNng7Hbn
Embedded video

Streetinsider.com
@Street_Insider
Tesla $TSLA Model Y Seen Flying Around Test Track - Analyst
https://twitter.com/Street_Insider/status/1204114185862438914
View image on Twitter
12:00 AM - Dec 10, 2019


video
https://youtu.be/9ziV_ytDud8
Tesla Model Y Prototype test track - Trip Chowdhry
]

Tesla was spotted testing a Model Y prototype on its test track at the
Fremont, California, factory in a new spy video that showed a launch from a
standstill. 

In March, Tesla unveiled the Model Y, an all-electric crossover based on
Model 3, with up to 300 miles of range.

The automaker said that it plans to bring the vehicle to production in fall
2020.

Tesla has since accelerated the Model Y production program.

CEO Elon Musk said that he expects Tesla to hit volume Model Y production by
mid-2020, which means that production would start in the next few months.

As we get closer to production, several Model Y prototype sightings have
been reported as Tesla is conducting its road test program.

Now a Tesla Model Y prototype was spotted being tested at Tesla’s Fremont
factory.

You can see the electric SUV accelerate from a standstill at full speed ...

Model Y will be offered in a “Performance Version,” which Tesla claims will
be able to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 3.5 seconds.

Global Equities Research analyst Trip Chowdhry also spotted the vehicle on
the test track ... 

The analyst suggests that the vehicle being tested on the track at Fremont,
where it will go into production, indicates that Tesla is on track for
production.

He expects Model Y to be a “significant” revenue contributor starting in the
second half of 2020.

We reported earlier today that another analyst said that the Tesla Model Y
production is on track for 1,000 units per week in mid-2020 after he went on
a Fremont factory tour.

In the US, the Tesla Model Y starts at $48,000 for the Long Range RWD model,
which will have about 300 miles of range, according to Tesla.

It will also be offered in Dual Motor All-Wheel-Drive versions.

The electric SUV can be configured with a third-row for up to seven seats.
[© electrek.co]


+
https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/tesla-s-controversial-cybertruck-not-road-legal-in-europe/
Tesla's controversial Cybertruck 'not road-legal' in Europe
17/12/2019 ... Germany's SGS-TÜV Saarland is worried about how it will react
in an accident with another vehicle, or when a pedestrian is struck ... the
lack of crumple zones, the body has absolutely no give, and the energy of a
collision will act on the occupants directly ...
https://www.driven.co.nz/media/15809/cybertruck10.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EVLN: Get a sweeter used-EV deal than stuck w/ an old ice-headache

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.autoworldnews.com/articles/39574/20191212/second-hand-electric-cars-better-gas-powered-here-benefits.htm
Second-Hand Electric Cars Are Better to Get Than Gas-Powered Cars For These
Reasons
Dec 12, 2019 

[image  
https://1506015687.rsc.cdn77.org/data/images/full/43002/second-hand-electric-cars-are-better-to-get-than-gas-powered-cars-here-are-the-benefits.jpg
Second-Hand Electric Cars Are Better to Get Than Gas-Powered Cars Here Are
the Benefits  (Photo : www.pinterest.ph)
]

Think twice when buying a pre-owned car, get a second-hand electric car that
is a better option and with benefits too. Gas-powered cars might not be a
wise choice with all these reasons.
Before you buy a second-hand car, why not go for second-hand electric cars
instead? For all its worth, getting a pre-owned or new car, which uses
gasoline or diesel are not the cleanest cars to get. Electric cars are the
obvious option and help keep the battery pack from ending up in a landfill
too.

Old gasoline cars, especially that are not in their prime are good but have
certain problems. For electric cars it is the same thing, gas-powered cars
have more problems that can be a money pit. Same goes for electric cars,
though most are newer technology that has less dependence on fluids.
Pre-owned gas cars need to be checked and reconditioned, it can be very
complicated and expensive too.

As combustion engine cars get older, they emit more carbon emissions
compared to greener second-owner electric cars. There will be more repairs
when restoring old gas, to be less poisonous o the environment. Electric
cars may just need to have batteries checked and less mechanicals to worry
about. If a second-owner EV is chosen, it will be cheaper than a new one, so
less is spent.

 Here are the benefits one can get from buying a second-hand electric
vehicle. There are more advantages with it than a gas-powered car, and let
us begin.

1. The cost is more pocket-friendly compared to a new EV or gas-powered car.

Buying a new car, whether an electric or not will cost a bit, but
second-owner will be less. The only expense is how much the pre-owned is
sold, and older gas-powered are money pits in the making. Getting
second-hand EV might be better for some.

 2. Less is spent to maintain it compared to a gas-powered car. Though
initial expense will be more cost-effective in the long run. 

One of the problems of older gas cars is the repairs to restore it to
running condition. But, EVs have less mechanical parts to worry about. The
most serious concern is the EV battery, also Tesla is improving the quality
of present power cells to last longer.

3. Paying for home charging equipment or at the charging pod is far less
than gas or diesel fuel.

 For now, the cost of fuel in the US is manageable, but when it goes up,
owners of SUVS will have a problem. Pick second-owner EV and there will no
more fuel costs, that can go other expenses.

 4. One full charge is 150 or almost 200 miles for ordinary EVs, but for
high-end Teslas, it is 250 miles up!

A fully charged EV has enough power for up to 200 miles or more for a full
charge, that is enough to go around a city or suburb. More charging pods
that offer free or paid charging will give EVs more convenient use, without
fear of going below 20%. 

 5. Compared to older cars, it has no emissions, all the carbon debt is
indirectly produced by the process of making an EV and its fuel. EVs
basically are clean cars, compared to ICE vehicles.

Choose an EV as your second-owner, you will drive without emissions and
produce less overall carbon emissions indirectly. Gas power cars are dirty
cars that spew noxious gases, especially diesel despite improvements to
lessen them.
[© autoworldnews.com]


+
https://blog.motorcycle.com/2019/12/12/motorcycle-news/rent-a-livewire-in-la-or-san-francisco/
Rent a LiveWire in LA or San Francisco
December 12, 2019  With more than 2,300 motorcycles for short- or long-term
rental, Twisted Road has ... Harley-Davidson's new LiveWire electric
motorcycles ...
https://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Screen-Shot-2019-12-12-at-9.08.42-AM-633x388.png




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20191220

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-How-EV-packs-have-evolved-hi-capacity-low-price-size-weight-tp4695970.html
EVLN: How EV packs have evolved> hi-capacity; low price, size 
How have EV batteries evolved over the years? Considerably well
It weighed in at 1,400 kg. When the batteries were changed over to NiMH,
weight went down to 1319 kg and range was boosted ...
https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/s--GceXhhv---/q_jpegmini,w_1366/v1576124514/article/article19057/vmiy2pbo6xfmddxufq3j.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Out-w-MPG-In-w-Kilowatt-Hours-Classic-diy-conversions-tp4695971.html
EVLN: Out w/ MPG, In w/ Kilowatt-Hours> Classic diy conversions
Out: M.P.G. In: Kilowatt-Hours. Classic Cars Get an Electric Jolt.
Dec. 12, 2019  CHATSWORTH, Calif. — A vintage Fiat 124 Spider — so pretty
you could pinch its little orange cheeks — accelerates up a canyon road in
the San Fernando ...
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/12/13/business/12wheels1/merlin_163917633_62614605-fe23-4429-b004-31cd55943b7c-superJumbo.jpg


+ (trolling4$)
https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/car-news/electric-car-battery-charging-time-ev-charger-electric-cars-in-india-ev-charging-stations-range-penn-state/1795461/
480 km range in just 10 minutes of charge! New electric car battery that
could be charged even faster
December 16, 2019  Electric car battery charging times are one major reason
why EV adoption is trickier but we've got good news from the Penn State
University in the US where engineers have developed a new EV battery which
takes 10 minutes to charge ...


https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/lafd-takes-world-e2-80-99s-first-fully-electric-fire-truck-for-a-spin-around-dodger-stadium/ar-AAK4B6w
LAFD Takes World’s First Fully Electric Fire Truck for a Spin Around Dodger
Stadium
2019-12-10  Not to be outdone by the Los Angeles Police Department’s test
run with a Tesla patrol car, the L.A. Fire Department announced ...
https://www.instagram.com/p/B5_SlhNFIBm/?utm_source=ig_embed_campaign=loading
...
https://www.firehouse.com/apparatus/video/21118070/menlo-park-ca-fire-district-unveils-firstever-allelectric-apparatus-firefighters


https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/vietnams-vinfast-wants-to-be-selling-its-cars-stateside-in-2021/
Vietnam’s VinFast Wants To Be Selling Its Cars Stateside In 2021
DECEMBER 14, 2019 ... The VinFast brand has been steadily growing ... and
recently started production of its first three vehicles, a hatchback, a
sedan, and an SUV, while it’s also working on its very first all-electric
vehicle ... billionaire  Vuong’s most ambitious goal ... he wants to have
entered the American market by 2021 ...
https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/webp/2019/12/VinFast-.webp


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Factory-1997-Chevy-S-10-PU-e-truck-w-EV1-guts-60-allowed-sold-v-tp4695938.html
Factory 1997 Chevy S-10 PU e-truck w/ EV1 guts> 60 allowed sold (v)
Forget the Cybertruck: Get Yourself a Factory 1997 Chevrolet S-10 Electric
Pickup
DECEMBER 13, 2019 ... In 1990, GM showed the world a concept for an electric
car called the Impact that ... The lead-acid S-10 EV could sprint from zero
to 50 miles per hour (not 60 ...
https://the-drive-2.imgix.net/https%3A%2F%2Fapi.thedrive.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F12%2F209306.jpg%3Fquality%3D85?w=1440=compress%2Cformat=js-1.4.1=133e127e31fa569c4ce41a2e58277c53




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EVLN: Out w/ MPG, In w/ Kilowatt-Hours> Classic diy conversions

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/12/business/electric-car-conversions.html
Out: M.P.G. In: Kilowatt-Hours. Classic Cars Get an Electric Jolt.
Dec. 12, 2019  Lawrence Ulrich

[images  
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/12/13/business/12wheels1/merlin_163917633_62614605-fe23-4429-b004-31cd55943b7c-superJumbo.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/12/13/business/12wheels2/merlin_163917588_9d11f181-2af9-4caa-b1a5-94d68c583499-jumbo.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/12/13/business/12wheels3/merlin_163917426_419ac393-91b2-47ab-8da7-6d99cb7ded3c-jumbo.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/12/13/business/12wheels4/merlin_163917441_50cfc230-88b1-408c-b1c7-6c7ff089200b-jumbo.jpg
“Not every old car is sacred, and cars have been modified a million
different ways,” said Joe DeMatio at Hagerty.Credit...Alex Welsh for The New
York Times
]

A California company has developed a “crate motor” to relatively simply (but
not so cheaply) convert gasoline cars to modern electric engines.

A restored Fiat Spyder at Electric GT, which turns vintage cars into
electric vehicles.

A restored Fiat Spyder at Electric GT, which turns vintage cars into
electric vehicles.Credit...Alex Welsh for The New York Times

CHATSWORTH, Calif. — A vintage Fiat 124 Spider — so pretty you could pinch
its little orange cheeks — accelerates up a canyon road in the San Fernando
Valley. But there’s something strange about this Pininfarina-designed
Italian roadster. First, it feels downright peppy as it chugs uphill. And
there’s actually no “chugging,” but rather a spacey, high-pitched whir.

Inside this 1982 Fiat is a modern battery-powered drive system designed by
Electric GT, a California company that has created a “crate motor.” Electric
GT’s version of the crate motor, a term long associated with hot-rod
gasoline engines sold in crates by automakers, allows professional restorers
or even enterprising home mechanics to convert vintage gasoline cars to run
on electricity.

“A lot of guys go out in a classic car that’s 40 or 50 years old, but it’s a
one-way trip — they get a ride home with AAA,” said Eric Hutchison, who
founded Electric GT in 2014 with a partner, Brock Winberg. “This is for
enthusiasts who love their cars but want something reliable that’s good for
a weekend drive.”

The company garnered attention when it took a junkyard 1978 Ferrari 308,
perhaps best known as Tom Selleck’s car in “Magnum, P.I.,” and swapped out
its V-8 engine for electric motors. So transformed, with nearly double the
torque of its gasoline forebear, the Ferrari trimmed a remarkable 10 seconds
per lap from its times at a Las Vegas-area racetrack.

“It just decimated the gasoline version,” Mr. Hutchison said.

Image“A lot of guys go out in a classic car that’s 40 or 50 years old, but
it’s a one-way trip — they get a ride home with AAA,” said Eric Hutchison of
Electric GT.

“A lot of guys go out in a classic car that’s 40 or 50 years old, but it’s a
one-way trip — they get a ride home with AAA,” said Eric Hutchison of
Electric GT.Credit...Alex Welsh for The New York Times

As for the Fiat I’m driving, the electric conversion has sharply boosted its
own power and acceleration, from the original’s 10-second ooze from zero to
60 miles an hour to roughly seven sprightly seconds. With Volkswagen looking
to transform itself via a $66 billion investment in electric cars, Electric
GT also designed the powertrain for the Type 20, a charmingly updated
concept version of the hippie legend Microbus created by VW’s Innovation and
Engineering Center in Silicon Valley.

“The idea is to take something old and mix it with something new, with good
design and engineering behind it,” Mr. Winberg said.

The “old” includes something close to the heart — or perhaps the left foot —
of enthusiasts. The system is designed exclusively for manual-transmission
cars, including the Fiat that I happily toggle through its five speeds while
finessing a clutch pedal. Mr. Hutchison said that old-school automatics were
“big energy hogs,” while stick-shifts are easier to integrate and allow
smooth, efficient performance in a full range of gears.

The resulting rides fall into an increasingly popular category known as
restomods: cars that appear to be restored classics, but with modern
drivetrains or luxury features beneath those romantic skins. As electric
vehicles become mainstream, it’s inevitable that more enthusiasts will look
to harness electricity for their nostalgic rides, said Joe DeMatio, senior
manager of content at Hagerty, an insurer of vintage and classic cars.

“Some people would say that replacing a performance V-8 with electricity is
sacrilege, but if it makes a car more usable or enjoyable, why not?” Mr.
DeMatio said. “Not every old car is sacred, and cars have been modified a
million different ways.”

Inside Electric GT’s shop in Chatsworth sits a diverse group of donor cars:
patients with gasoline-clogged arteries, if you will, awaiting their
electric heart transplants. 

[EVDL] EVLN: How EV packs have evolved> hi-capacity; low price, size

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://autofile.ca/en-ca/auto-news/how-have-ev-batteries-evolved-over-the-years-considerably-well
How have EV batteries evolved over the years? Considerably well
Today's batteries have improved on size, capacity and weight since the first
EV
December 12, 2019  Joe Duarte

[images  
https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/s--GceXhhv---/q_jpegmini,w_1366/v1576124514/article/article19057/vmiy2pbo6xfmddxufq3j.jpg
Volkswagen ID.3 platform

https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/w_1366/v1537603501/article/article18522/d08hgsbdrinhyduba2th.jpg
Volkswagen MEB platform

https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/w_1366/v1576124543/article/article19057/odhfb2hlpskapa6jtpxd.jpg
1996 GM EV1 - (Credit: GM/David Kimble)

https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/w_1366/v1576124426/article/article19057/xjjlbadxkcclv57dqezu.jpg
Volkswagen ID.3 battery modules

https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/w_1366/v1493618036/article/article17718/al2urtml71aaswrcq1qo.jpg
High-voltage battery system for Volkswagen e-Golf

https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/s--L-vVuEMX--/q_jpegmini,w_1366/v1576124426/article/article19057/pmge2hnkjlkztwpirpub.jpg
Volkswagen ID.3 battery construction
]

How have EV batteries evolved over the years? Considerably well
Today's batteries have improved on size, capacity and weight since the first
EV

The heart of any electric vehicle is not the motor or motors that make the
power to turn the wheels, but the batteries that make the motor(s) hum.
Literally.

The modern lithium ion battery has come a long way since the lead-acid
battery pack that supplied energy for the first GM EV1 (the first
mass-produced EV from a major manufacturer) and even from the Nickel Metal
Hydride (NiMH) units of the second generation EV1.

The changes are evident in charge times, driving range, vehicle weight and
occupant space.

The size issue dictated that the EV1 (an awkward-looking compact coupe
roughly the size of a Hyundai Veloster) could only accommodate two
occupants, once the space was used up to hold batteries and other EV
ancillaries. Today’s Volkswagen ID.3, for example, covers about the same
footprint as the EV1 but can accommodate five people and their daytrip
luggage.

The EV1’s driving range on lead-acid batteries was from about 112 km to
about 257 km. It weighed in at 1,400 kg. When the batteries were changed
over to NiMH, weight went down to 1319 kg and range was boosted to 255-370
km.

That in itself is not much different from the range of many of today’s
electric vehicles, but the time it took to charge up those batteries is very
different. The EV1 took upwards of 15 hours to charge from a standard
household outlet, and three hours on the “fast charge” connection to a
220-volt outlet. By comparison, connecting many of today’s EVs to a 110-volt
outlet will recharge lithium ion batteries of equal capacity in about 3-6
hours; a 220-volt connection would lower that to 2-3 hours and direct
current chargers would get the job done in about an hour.

The ID.3’s 77-kWh battery system stores enough juice for a 550-km range, and
about a half hour of DC charging at a charging station will add roughly 290
km. The battery “floor” is made up of up to 12 battery modules of 24 battery
cells each, and the car weighs in at 1,600 kg.

And, the compact battery cells in the ID.3 take up far less space than the
lead-acid and NiMH units in the EV1 (or even the lithium ion battery pack of
the electric Golf from 2013), allowing them to be spread out over the floor
area with minimal intrusion on passenger space. That also provides the
ability to add more battery modules, which increases range a bit at a time,
allowing customers who drive longer distances to easily increase their
energy storage without decreasing people room, or order fewer modules and
reduce purchase costs.

The result is a car that can be used in much the same manner as a Volkswagen
Golf (pretty much the same size) instead of being restricted to urban
environments in moderate climate, as was the EV1 — which is really the
reason the EV1 was killed off. And though it is gone, it is not forgotten,
remaining the pioneer that made today’s EVs possible.
[© autofile.ca]


+ (trolling4$)
https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/car-news/electric-car-battery-charging-time-ev-charger-electric-cars-in-india-ev-charging-stations-range-penn-state/1795461/
480 km range in just 10 minutes of charge! New electric car battery that
could be charged even faster
December 16, 2019  Electric car battery charging times are one major reason
why EV adoption is trickier but we've got good news from the Penn State
University in the US where engineers have developed a new EV battery which
takes 10 minutes to charge ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: 

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20191219

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-tmc-Aygo-compliance-eu-miniEV-eu-only-EVs-tp4695967.html
EVLN: tmc Aygo compliance.eu miniEV> .eu only EVs
Toyota plans potential fourth EV for Europe, a battery-electric minicar
Dec. 11th 2019  The small Toyota ... Aygo EV is clear: compliance
https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/aygo-blue-2000.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Bolt-EV-traveling-50kW-DC-charging-guide-fast-EVSE-ave-time-tp4695968.html
EVLN: Bolt EV traveling &50kW-DC charging guide> fast EVSE $ave time
Chevy Bolt EV Owner's Guide to 50 kW Chargers
Dec 12 2019  Bolt EV owners find it extremely confusing when some “50 kW”
chargers recharge . For Chevrolet Bolt EV and other electric vehicle
owners, the newer, faster ...
https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/images/evgo_berry_patch.jpg


+
https://electrek.co/2019/12/12/why-europe-will-see-the-worlds-biggest-ev-uptick-in-2020/
Why Europe will see the world's biggest EV uptick in 2020
2019/12/12  In Europe, sales of pure electric and plug-in hybrid passenger
cars are expected to grow 35% in the first nine months of 2020, according to
BloombergNEF ...
https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/ev-sales-europe.jpg


https://www.energy-storage.news/news/mitsubishi-ev-batteries-come-full-circle-in-1mwh-bess-install-at-manufactur
Mitsubishi EV batteries come full circle in 1MWh BESS install at
manufacturing plant
12 Dec 2019  The 1MWh BESS is formed of second-life electric vehicle
batteries from ... the charge when it comes to using second life EV
batteries as stationary storage ... 3MW solar system to be installed
alongside the BESS ...
https://www.energy-storage.news/images/made/assets/images/editorial/Mitsubishi_second_life_EV_battery_BESS_555_347_80_s_c1.jpg


https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/12/tesla-maryland-lawsuit-autopilot/
Maryland Attorney Sues Tesla As The Electric Vehicle Maker’s Technology
Comes Under Fire
December 12, 2019  A Maryland attorney is suing Tesla for over $1 million,
saying the car he bought from the electric vehicle company in 2017 went
haywire and began swerving at ...


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BURLINGTON-VT-s-Calfee-sez-e-driving-IT-S-A-NO-BRAINER-tp4695932.html
BURLINGTON-VT's Calfee sez e-driving> IT'S A NO-BRAINER!
Man's passion for climate solutions drives toward electric ...
Calfee first got an electric car in 2015, making it a daily goal to have
someone who's never driven an EV to take his for a spin. He's expanding his
personal test ... (video  flash)
https://kubrick.htvapps.com/vidthumb/7d10fdc9-8a45-4459-a510-54a345e7f703/7d10fdc9-8a45-4459-a510-54a345e7f703_image.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Bolt EV traveling &50kW-DC charging guide> fast EVSE $ave time

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.torquenews.com/8861/chevy-bolt-ev-owners-guide-50-kw-chargers
Chevy Bolt EV Owner's Guide to 50 kW Chargers
Dec 12 2019  Eric Way

[images  
https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/images/evgo_berry_patch.jpg
EVgo BTC Power Berry Patch Orland

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/125_a_evgo_charger.jpg?itok=Kk_SN7vF

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/faster_than_50_kw.jpg?itok=juJq_eVo

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/btc_power_l3r.jpg?itok=J10Eslg8

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/100_a_charger.jpg?itok=KhbqCAGY

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/btc_power_slim_line.jpg?itok=IxNWfvnR

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/chargepoint_tritium_veefil-rt.jpg?itok=UziEawm4

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/cpe_250.jpg?itok=vhmvb9Q9

https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/styles/news/public/abb_terra_53.jpg?itok=2z9cllDh


videos
https://youtu.be/Q_k4JlKAmQY
Tesla Cybertruck's Flow Simulation Reveals Efficiency

https://youtu.be/Ib--w3-_Rpw
Bolt EV DCFC: Chasing a 130 A "Unicorn" Charger

https://youtu.be/NgI604rNPT0
Site Review: EVgo, Woodland: County Fair Fashion Mall

https://youtu.be/lCsL1OolzD0
Site Review: ChargePoint, Pomona 7-Eleven

https://youtu.be/7JzXJ9_wM08
Comparing EV Charging Networks: A Road Trip
]

I've done a lot of traveling and charging in my Chevrolet Bolt EV, and I've
been able to identify the good and bad about various "50 kW" DC fast
chargers. Join me as I explain what Chevy Bolt EV owners should look for and
expect out of a 50 kW charger.

Over the last three years and after over 100,000 miles of driving in my
Chevy Bolt EV, I found that it could be somewhat difficult to know what to
expect out of a given 50 kW CCS DC fast charger. Bolt EV owners find it
extremely confusing when some “50 kW” chargers recharge half the Bolt EV's
battery in 35 minutes while other “50 kW” chargers would take nearly 1 hour
to add the same amount of energy.

In this story, I will explain why these discrepancies between chargers
exist, and I'll share my process for identifying these chargers ahead of
time. In addition, I'll describe how these different power levels can affect
the time spent charging so that Chevy Bolt EV owners can set accurate
expectations and plan accordingly.

Background
The biggest reason for the discrepancies between chargers is that there is
no set, universal standard for what can be considered a 50 kW charger. Under
one rating system, charging providers will determine a charger's speed by
its potential peak power output, so a charger that can only output 100 A at
500 V would be considered 50 kW (100 A * 500 V = 50,000 watts). However,
because most electric vehicles have less than 400 V electrical systems,
real-world charging rates rarely even reach 40 kW.

In response, some charging providers have adjusted their ratings so that
they account for that 400 V charging limitation for most modern electric
vehicles. As a result, many newer chargers that provide 125 A at 500 V and
would be listed as 62.5 kW under the old model are now listed as 50 kW.
Given 400 V limits, 50 kW is probably the most accurate description for
these chargers.

Recently, we've started to see even newer 50 kW chargers that actually
provide 156 A, so a technical peak rate of 78 kW; however, the charging
providers who install these units actually list them as 62.5 kW, or the same
rating as others use for the 125 A at 500 V chargers. In the case of these
156 A chargers, the 62.5 kW rating is probably the most accurate description
for these chargers because most electric vehicles will be charging at less
than 400 V.
What adds to the confusion here is that many of the 100 kW or faster
chargers use the same outer shell as the 50 kW chargers, and some of the
older 100 A chargers can be upgraded to 125 A. Also, if a charging module is
broken in one of the newer 125 A chargers, it might only dispense 100 A.

In the following sections, I'll share images and videos of various 50 kW
chargers from different manufacturers and charging providers, and I’ll share
the impact on the charging speeds and average charging times for the
Chevrolet Bolt EV.

How Charging Rates Affect the Chevy Bolt EV
Before I dive into the chargers themselves, I want to share some of my basic
heuristics about charging the Chevrolet Bolt EV at these various chargers.
Hopefully, this will help set expectations for Bolt EV owners, so they
aren’t surprised at the differences they encounter from charger to charger.
As an abstract concept, it’s easy to see that a 100 A charger will be 33%
slower than a 150 A charger, but I want to illustrate just how much of a
time difference that represents for Bolt EV owners.

First, I want to say that, as a best practice, you should try to avoid
charging your 

[EVDL] EVLN: tmc Aygo compliance.eu miniEV> .eu only EVs

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://electrek.co/2019/12/11/toyota-plans-potential-fourth-ev-for-europe-a-battery-electric-minicar/
Toyota plans potential fourth EV for Europe, a battery-electric minicar
Dec. 11th 2019  Bradley Berman

[images  
https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/aygo-blue-2000.jpg
 tmc

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/2019-honda-e-ev-1600.jpg
 hmc

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/vw_eup_1600.jpg
 vw
]

The small Toyota Aygo, launched in 2014, is the company’s only car sold in
Europe without a hybrid option. When a new version of the Aygo arrives, it
could leapfrog a hybrid and take on a full, battery-electric powertrain.

While the plans are not certain, the motivation for an Aygo EV is clear:
compliance. Johan Van Zyl, Toyota Europe CEO, told Automotive News:

Some cities are applying zero-emissions zones, so we must think about the
future and say, ‘How are we going to ensure that we have an electrified
version of an A (minicar) – or sub A-segment car that we’ll be able to
utilize for these cities?

In April, London’s Ultra-Low Emission Zone [
https://electrek.co/2019/04/09/london-ulez-goes-live/
] went into effect in the city’s central section. Numerous other cities
across Europe have, or are planning to introduce, low- and zero-emission
zones.

Toyota previously said it will launch three battery-electric vehicles by
2021 in Europe, including an all-electric version of the Lexus UX compact
SUV [
https://electrek.co/2019/12/09/lexus-launches-electric-suv-for-asia-and-europe-showing-that-toyota-can-quickly-shift-to-evs/
]. Toyota will also sell an electric version of the C-HR compact SUV and a
van sourced from PSA.

Given further evidence to a potential Aygo EV, Toyota develops and builds
the minicar in a partnership with the PSA group. According to Automotive
News, Peugeot and Citroen indicated that any replacement for its minicars
will be electric.

Van Zyl said the Aygo minicar was bringing younger drivers to the Toyota
brand. It’s also a high-volume car, selling more than 83,000 units in Europe
this year through October. Toyota remains one of the few automakers, along
with Hyundai and Kia, to commit to Europe’s smallest segment.

Two vastly different EV markets are developing on opposite sides of the
Atlantic. In the United States, nearly all new EVs are crossovers, sedans,
and trucks, while Europe is introducing lower-cost, small EVs.

Honda e electric car
The adorable Honda E city car will arrive on European roads in summer 2020.
Unfortunately, the $33,000 small EV with a 35.5-kWh pack (offering about 125
miles of range) is not coming to the United States.

Volkswagen Group’s VW Up, Skoda Citigo and Seat Mii minicars are expected to
be replaced by battery-powered versions based on a shortened version of the
automaker’s Modular Electric Drive Toolkit (MEB) architecture.

In September, Volkswagen announced the new e-up!, a small EV that sells for
the equivalent of about $24,000 before incentives. Its 32-kilowatt-hour
battery pack will likely have a range similar to the Honda E.

Volkswagen e-up!
According to Automotive News, the Euro6d Temp emission standard due in
September next year is paving the way for EVs. It’s difficult for smaller
gas cars to meet NOx emissions as gas- and diesel-powered vehicles
cost-effectively.

Toyota can continue selling gasoline Aygos without penalties after stringent
new CO2 regulations starting in January because more than half the company’s
European sales are gas-electric hybrid models.

Electrek’s Take
For a company that has disavowed battery-electric vehicles [
https://electrek.co/2019/11/25/interview-toyotas-sales-and-marketing-chief-says-theres-no-demand-for-evs/
], it’s remarkable to see Toyota add one more potential EV to three others
already announced.

As we posted a few days ago, Toyota is prepared to shift to EVs when it
wants to [
https://electrek.co/2019/12/09/lexus-launches-electric-suv-for-asia-and-europe-showing-that-toyota-can-quickly-shift-to-evs/
], or when it’s forced to make the shift to comply with regulations. With
Europe’s emissions regulations getting tougher in 2020, here comes Toyota
EVs.

What’s cool about a potential Aygo EV, as well as small battery-electric
cars from Honda, VW, and PSA, is their potential to bring battery-electric
cars downmarket. I can’t shake the hope that Honda will bring the Honda E to
America.
[© electrek.co]


+
https://electrek.co/2019/12/12/why-europe-will-see-the-worlds-biggest-ev-uptick-in-2020/
Why Europe will see the world's biggest EV uptick in 2020
2019/12/12  In Europe, sales of pure electric and plug-in hybrid passenger
cars are expected to grow 35% in the first nine months of 2020, according to
BloombergNEF ...
https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/ev-sales-europe.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: 

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20191218

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Crank-up-your-jams-before-searching-for-EV-benefits-5things-tp4695964.html
EVLN: Crank up your jams before searching for EV benefits> 5things
The First 5 Things You Should Do When Buying an Electric Car
DECEMBER 11, 2019For most buyers, electric cars are likely to be more
pleasant to drive than gas- or diesel-powered ones. Their powertrains aren't
just more quiet, they also deliver ...
https://gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/When-Buying-an-Electric-Car-gear-patrol-ambience-2.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Crash-testing-a-200K-electric-Porsche-tp4695965.html
EVLN: Crash-testing a $200K electric Porsche
Watch: How a $200K electric Porsche is crash tested
11/12/2019  In order for any new vehicle to make it on the market, it has to
go through a rigorous crash testing program where every possible outcome has
to be simulated.
https://youtu.be/wEzPaH1xhPA


+
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/electric-vehicle-parking-fine-1.5394288
New fine $125 for parking fossil fuel vehicle in electric car spot
Dec 12, 2019  Kitchener-Waterloo  First time private member’s bill by Green
Party has become law  Ontario drivers who park petroleum-powered vehicles in
spots designated for electric cars may soon be fined $125 ... under changes
made to Ontario's Highway Traffic Act ...
https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/12/12/ev-charger-misuse-bill-passes-in-ontario-with-cross-party-support/


(dated)
https://www.motor1.com/news/382809/nissan-leaf-side-crash-test/
Nissan Leaf Side Crash Test In The Name Of Science Looks Brutal
NOV 18, 2019  The German Motor Vehicle Inspection Association did more than
just replicate the crash tests set up by Euro NCAP years ago as they crashed
Nissan's electric ...
https://youtu.be/dclFMzKSJMA


https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/hitech/tesla-has-ambitious-plan-to-remove-windscreen-wipers-for-good/news-story/8240fbcd6ec41dd4fbefdee3a93067a7
Tesla has ambitious plan to remove windscreen wipers for good
2019-12-02  Lasers could replace windscreen wipers in future Teslas as a
hi-tech way to clean glass ... a patent ... for laser beams that would clean
the windscreen and other glass areas without the need for traditional wipers
...
...
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-windshield-wipers-patent-tech
Tesla Patents Electromagnetic Windshield Wiper—Could It Be for the
Cybertruck?
As a bonus, Tesla's patent filing claims the electromagnetic wiperis are
more energy efficient than typical motor-driven ...
https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2019/12/Tesla-windshield-wiper-patent-2.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Croatian-EV-rs-Block-ice-pumps-Revenge4-icings-tp4695906.html
Croatian EV'rs Block ice-pumps> Revenge4 icings
Revenge Of The Electric Cars? EVs Block Gas Station To Prove A Point
DEC 10, 2019  We often have news here of people blocking EV charging
stations with combustion-engined cars. It is the famous ICE'ing. What if EV
owners decided ... Croatian EV Owners Try To Give ICE'rs A Taste Of Their
Own Medicine ...
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/8MAWW/s1/croatian-ev-owners-try-to-give-ice-rs-a-taste-of-their-own-medicine.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Crash-testing a $200K electric Porsche

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/watch-how-a-200k-electric-porsche-is-crash-tested/
Watch: How a $200K electric Porsche is crash tested
11/12/2019  ANDREW SLUYS

[image  
https://www.driven.co.nz/media/16350/rop1.jpg

video
https://youtu.be/wEzPaH1xhPA
Euro NCAP Crash & Safety Tests of Porsche Taycan 2019
]

In order for any new vehicle to make it on the market, it has to go through
a rigorous crash testing program where every possible outcome has to be
simulated. 

Included in this are all the high-end performance and luxury cars that you
see on the road, and while they may cost as much as a small house to build,
everything has to be crashed in the name of safety. 

Considering their age, crash testing electric cars is still a relatively new
concept, and while it might not have a big metal engine sitting in front of
the cabin, the Porsche Taycan certainly holds its own. 

Just like the Teslas that have already undertaken crash testing, it has been
argued that the Taycan's lack of engine means that the whole front end is
one big crumple zone, making it dissipate energy with ease. 

Recently, Euro NCAP released a video showing the fully-electric Porsche
taking a hammering from all directions, and unsurprisingly, it passed with
flying colours. 

It was given an 85 per cent score in adult occupant protection, 83 per cent
in child safety, 70 percent in vulnerable road user (cyclist and pedestrian)
protection, and 70 percent in safety assist technology.

All this added up to the Taycan receiving the maximum five star award for
total safety, meaning that it matched the electric Teslas already on the
road. 
[© driven.co.nz]


+ (dated)
https://www.motor1.com/news/382809/nissan-leaf-side-crash-test/
Nissan Leaf Side Crash Test In The Name Of Science Looks Brutal
NOV 18, 2019  The German Motor Vehicle Inspection Association did more than
just replicate the crash tests set up by Euro NCAP years ago as they crashed
Nissan's electric ...
https://youtu.be/dclFMzKSJMA




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Crank up your jams before searching for EV benefits> 5things

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://gearpatrol.com/2019/12/11/what-to-do-when-buying-an-electric-car/
The First 5 Things You Should Do When Buying an Electric Car
DECEMBER 11, 2019  WILL SABEL COURTNEY

[images  / PORSCHE
https://gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/When-Buying-an-Electric-Car-gear-patrol-lead-full.jpg

https://gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/When-Buying-an-Electric-Car-gear-patrol-ambience-1-768x591.jpg
A Level 2 charger. (Photo: Michael Hicks)

https://gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/When-Buying-an-Electric-Car-gear-patrol-ambience-2.jpg
A Porsche Taycan at an Ionity charging station. Ionity is a cross-European
charging network

https://gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/When-Buying-an-Electric-Car-gear-patrol-ambience-3-768x591.jpg
Always crank up your jams before searching for EV ownership benefits
]

So, you’ve finally decided to do it: You’re getting an electric car. You’ve
weighed the pros and cons, debated the advantages of plug-in hybrids versus
pure EVs, and determined that a vehicle that forgoes internal combustion for
electrons, batteries and motors is the right fit for you.

First off, congratulations. For most buyers, electric cars are likely to be
more pleasant to drive than gas- or diesel-powered ones. Their powertrains
aren’t just more quiet, they also deliver all their torque immediately,
without a need to rev up like ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles do,
so they feel peppier from behind the wheel; their powertrains are simpler,
so maintenance is generally easier and less frequent; their fuel is cheaper
and, depending on where it’s sourced from, likely more eco-friendly than the
fossil juice squeezed out of the ground.

Still, de-ICE-ing does involve making a few changes to your life. So to
help, we’ve pulled together a guide to the first few things you should do
once you’ve decided you’re going to buy an electric car.

1. Get a home charger.
Charging at home is by far one of the biggest advantages of owning an
electric vehicle. But to really capitalize on this, you’ll need more than a
three-prong 110-volt outlet, which only adds roughly four miles of range for
every hour on the socket. You’ll want to install what EV nerds call an SAE
J1772 — or, as it’s more colloquially known, a Level 2 charger. Depending on
the car, these can deliver between around 12–60 miles of range per hour,
though 25 miles per hour is a fair average. Still, even that’s enough to add
200-plus miles of range overnight, which can fill up an Audi E-Tron or a
Jaguar I-Pace.

Installing a charger for your home can seem a bit intimidating; unless
you’re an electrician or electrical engineer, it’s the sort of task best
left to a professional. Luckily, the folks at Amazon have this under
control; not only do they offer a bevy of EV chargers, but they also offer
electric car charging installation through their Amazon Home Services
department. (Angie’s List also provides references for EV charging station
installers.)

If you’re feeling particularly industrious or green, you might also want to
consider adding some solar panels to your roof, so you can charge that EV
for free. (And, unless you live on Dracula’s schedule, a big home battery
like Tesla’s Powerwall to store that power until you plug in at dinnertime.)

2. Learn about the charging networks (and download their apps).
Refueling at home may be way easier with an EV than with a gas-powered car,
but the opposite holds true once you’re out of your driveway. Unlike the
168,000 gas stations found across America, electric car chargers aren’t
abundant in every town, they’re not always easy to spot — and they’re not
all the same.

You’ll need to learn the differences between types of chargers. While all
cars sold Stateside can use the SAE J1772 Level 2 charger, Level 3 charging
— also called DC fast charging — uses three different types of plugs. The
best-known is Tesla’s Superchargers, which only work with the
California-based company’s cars and can be found at 685 locations across the
U.S. Then there’s the CHAdeMO style of charger, used solely by Nissan and
Mitsubishi and found at 2,282 spots across America. Finally, there’s CCS,
a.k.a. the SAE Combo Combined Charging System; this is used by all the rest
of the EVs currently on sale, from the Porsche Taycan to the Smart ForTwo,
and found at 2,043 sites in the U.S. (All figures via the Department of
Energy, and valid as of December 2019.)

These Level 3 chargers can pump electrons into cars at far greater rates
than in-home ones, with the fastest currently out there recharging even EVs
with large batteries to an 80-percent state of charge or more in roughly
half an hour. That said, charging speeds can vary wildly, even within this
tier; some CCS chargers max out at 50 kW, for example, while others can
deliver a stunning 350 kW.

Different electric cars can also slurp up energy at different rates. The
Taycan can take on power at levels of up to 270 kW, while the E-tron can
only handle up to 

Re: [EVDL] Daily EV miles of a plugin Hybrid

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I have a 21 mile commute to work.  On the coldest days I barely make it to 
work in my 2014 Volt with the heat cranked up all the way.  I drive for comfort 
and don't drive conservative.  I pay .10/kWhr at work and 0.13/kWhr at home.  
The only time I use gas is when I don't commute to work and have to take a 
trip.  On the weekends I often drive more than the Volt range but usually stop 
at home and plug in, so I can top off and drive more electric miles.  Regarding 
charge stations I only use the one in the parking deck at work in Kent, OH 
which is only 0.1/kWhr, cheaper than my house.  I have 240V for home charging 
but can always plug into a 120V outlet.  A retired teacher in my neighborhood 
also has a 2014 Volt.  She only plugs into 120V in the garage, but doesn't 
drive much, so it's still mostly EV.  I think for the majority of drivers that 
don't have a long commute, 120V at the house or garage is fine, so there are 
millions of charge stations already installed.
On Monday, December 16, 2019, 04:29:00 PM EST, Al Lumas via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 If the gasoline in your tank contains ethanol and you use none of it 
for several months you may have to replace it with fresh gasoline.
Al

At 08:32 AM 12/16/2019, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>I just realized that I have been selling Plugin-hybrids short.  For example
>I say the PriusPrime has about "30 miles daily electric miles and
>600 miles on gas."
>
>But I should be saying 30 to 60 electric miles, or even 30 to 90 electric
>miles. Because one could do 30 miles of errands in the morning, come home
>(or pluging at work) using a modest 3.3 kW charge, and in 3 hours, get
>another 30 electric miles for the afternoon, and come home in the afternoon
>and another 3 hour charge and have another 30  electric miles during the
>evening.
>
>Note, I carefully do not use the term" range" as it could be confusing.  I
>am talking about the number of typical "daily electric miles".
>
>Its an important way to look at "daily electric miles."
>
>Bob
  

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Re: [EVDL] Paine> auto industry's collective EV-ambivalence, w/o-oil movie

[jim--- via EV]

Gail Lucas said (in part):
> EPA site, Alternative Fuels Data Center, Fueling Station Locator:
> Hydrogen - 45 sites in US and Canada
> Electric - 28,344 sites in US and Canada

And that last number is going up damn near daily.
We just added four EV charging spots in the public part of the city of Glendale 
Civic Center parking structure - in addition to the two in the employee part of 
the structure (that get used almost constantly).

Jim Walls
City of Glendale, CA


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Re: [EVDL] Paine> auto industry's collective EV-ambivalence, w/o-oil movie

[Gail Lucas via EV]

Sorry, again I hit SEND before my message was done. Continued here..

A few cars like the Impact and EV1 appeared but did not last long. Then 
the Tesla Roadster happened and the game changed. There was finally a 
company seriously trying to make EVs work, and be innovative, adding 
great features to the cars and implementing excellent charging 
capability. Nothing much heard from the fuel cell development group. 
Charging for EVs has developed world-wide more than I thought it would 
in my lifetime and fuel cell charging is pretty stagnant.


EPA site, Alternative Fuels Data Center, Fueling Station Locator:
Hydrogen - 45 sites in US and Canada
Electric - 28,344 sites in US and Canada

Battery powered EVS are going to continue to improve and expand the 
facilities. Base on the current numbers for hydrogen and electricity I 
see no chance that fuel cells can ever catch up and become popular. So, 
I think David is right.


Gail

On 12/9/2019 12:49 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 8 Dec 2019 at 23:12, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:


Your statement about Toyota not making money on the Mirai is pretty silly.


It wasn't the poster's statement, it was from an article he quoted.  And I
don't understand why you would call it "silly."



Who knows if they will make money on it, but they didnTMt make money on the
Prius for a number of years.


The Marai and Prius aren't at all comparable.  The Prius is a true mass
production vehicle.  The Mirai is effectively a proof of concept vehicle.  A
better analogy for it would be the GM EV1.

I can't say I "know" that the Mirai will never be profitable, but it'd be a
pretty safe bet.  It may be a marvel of technology and a joy to drive for
its few ownerst, but i's a highly specialized, narrow-appeal vehicle.   It's
safe to say that Toyota will never amortize its development cost, let alone
sell it above production cost.

It's far from unknown for automakers to accept initial losses on new vehicle
(ICEVs) when they're introduced, in order to establish them in the market.
Honda did that with the original Accord, and Toyota with Prius.  But those
cars had a reasonable expectation of success.  I can't imagine that Toyota
actually expects to ever make money on the Mirai.


Hopefully the success of the [Mirai] will be longer than the 10 or so
years it took to make money on the Prius


The Prius turned a profit in 2001, 4 years after introduction.

If Toyota really wants the Mirai to be successful, they should probably plan
on bulding as many hydrogen filling stations as Tesla has superchargers, and
as rapidly.  (Not that I actually think it's good for drivers when an
automaker, either Toyota or Tesla,  builds its own filling stations.)

That would require a substantial financial commitment.  While a supercharger
costs $250k to build, I've seen estimates anywhere from $1 million to $5
million for hydrogen filling stations.  Maybe the cost isn't well
established because so few have been built.

Tesla has over 1600 superchargers.  That many H2 stations would cost between
$1.6 billion and $8 billion.  I could be wrong, but my guess is that Toyota
isn't going to spend that money, but rather wants governments to build the
stations for them, using our taxes.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Paine> auto industry's collective EV-ambivalence, w/o-oil movie

[Gail Lucas via EV]

Back in about 1998 I thought hydrogen fuel cells were going to be a 
great new technology to give EVs a better option than the batteries we 
were using. Scientists, Glenn Rambach and Alan Lloyd, at the Desert 
Research Institute where I was working, were doing fuel cell research. 
Mark, you probably know them both.


Alan Lloyd -2003
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr112403.htm

https://energy.utexas.edu/about/staff/alan-lloyd

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/10-questions-hydrogen-and-fuel-cell-expert-glenn-rambach

https://www.dri.edu/newsroom/news-releases/2495-dri-joins-consortium-working-on-hydrogen-fuel-cell-applications

Ballard was building fuel cell powered buses in Canada and appears to 
still be in the bus business. A little company called Coval was working 
on a fuel cell powered utility vehicle, although I don't know if it got 
past the prototype.


A few cars like the Impact and EV1 appeared but did not last long. Then 
the Tesla,


EPA site, Alternative Fuels Data Center, Fueling Station Locator:
Hydrogen - 45 sites in US and Canada
Electric - 28,344 sites in US and Canada

On 12/9/2019 12:49 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 8 Dec 2019 at 23:12, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:


Your statement about Toyota not making money on the Mirai is pretty silly.


It wasn't the poster's statement, it was from an article he quoted.  And I
don't understand why you would call it "silly."



Who knows if they will make money on it, but they didnTMt make money on the
Prius for a number of years.


The Marai and Prius aren't at all comparable.  The Prius is a true mass
production vehicle.  The Mirai is effectively a proof of concept vehicle.  A
better analogy for it would be the GM EV1.

I can't say I "know" that the Mirai will never be profitable, but it'd be a
pretty safe bet.  It may be a marvel of technology and a joy to drive for
its few ownerst, but i's a highly specialized, narrow-appeal vehicle.   It's
safe to say that Toyota will never amortize its development cost, let alone
sell it above production cost.

It's far from unknown for automakers to accept initial losses on new vehicle
(ICEVs) when they're introduced, in order to establish them in the market.
Honda did that with the original Accord, and Toyota with Prius.  But those
cars had a reasonable expectation of success.  I can't imagine that Toyota
actually expects to ever make money on the Mirai.


Hopefully the success of the [Mirai] will be longer than the 10 or so
years it took to make money on the Prius


The Prius turned a profit in 2001, 4 years after introduction.

If Toyota really wants the Mirai to be successful, they should probably plan
on bulding as many hydrogen filling stations as Tesla has superchargers, and
as rapidly.  (Not that I actually think it's good for drivers when an
automaker, either Toyota or Tesla,  builds its own filling stations.)

That would require a substantial financial commitment.  While a supercharger
costs $250k to build, I've seen estimates anywhere from $1 million to $5
million for hydrogen filling stations.  Maybe the cost isn't well
established because so few have been built.

Tesla has over 1600 superchargers.  That many H2 stations would cost between
$1.6 billion and $8 billion.  I could be wrong, but my guess is that Toyota
isn't going to spend that money, but rather wants governments to build the
stations for them, using our taxes.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


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Re: [EVDL] Daily EV miles of a plugin Hybrid

[Al Lumas via EV]

If the gasoline in your tank contains ethanol and you use none of it 
for several months you may have to replace it with fresh gasoline.

Al

At 08:32 AM 12/16/2019, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

I just realized that I have been selling Plugin-hybrids short.  For example
I say the PriusPrime has about "30 miles daily electric miles and
600 miles on gas."

But I should be saying 30 to 60 electric miles, or even 30 to 90 electric
miles. Because one could do 30 miles of errands in the morning, come home
(or pluging at work) using a modest 3.3 kW charge, and in 3 hours, get
another 30 electric miles for the afternoon, and come home in the afternoon
and another 3 hour charge and have another 30  electric miles during the
evening.

Note, I carefully do not use the term" range" as it could be confusing.  I
am talking about the number of typical "daily electric miles".

Its an important way to look at "daily electric miles."

Bob
  


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Re: [EVDL] Daily EV miles of a plugin Hybrid

[Willie via EV]

On 12/16/19 1:30 PM, moskowitz via EV wrote:


And I recharge it using the excess on-peak power generated by our solar panel 
array, so it costs us literally nothing.


Perhaps that is not candid?  Or, maybe I do not understand your rate 
structure.  Mine is flat across time.


We have to pay for our PV installations.  At common values of electric 
energy, the "pay back period" is typically somewhere in the range of 8 
years to 20 years.  Since the life of a PV system is somewhere around 20 
years, the produced electric energy may be priced as if purchased from 
the utility.


I sell my excess energy to my utility and they pay about $.064/kwh.  So, 
I figure my cost of EV charging is about that $.064.  Still, more 
attractive than the utility rate of about $.10/kwh..


I'm all in favor of the energy independence PV represents, but saying 
that PV energy is "free" may not be accurate.


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Re: [EVDL] Daily EV miles of a plugin Hybrid

[moskowitz via EV]

Bob wrote:

> But I should be saying 30 to 60 electric miles, or even 30 to 90 electric
> miles. Because one could do 30 miles of errands in the morning, come home
> (or pluging at work) using a modest 3.3 kW charge, and in 3 hours, get
> another 30 electric miles for the afternoon, and come home in the afternoon
> and another 3 hour charge and have another 30  electric miles during the
> evening.

I regularly re-charge my Chevy Volt during the day. And sometimes I do it twice.

And I recharge it using the excess on-peak power generated by our solar panel 
array, so it costs us literally nothing.

Although in the Winter the Volt only gets 27 miles per charge (or 33 in the 
Summer), I regularly drive twice or three-times that distance per day on 
electric power.


Len Moskowitz
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[EVDL] Daily EV miles of a plugin Hybrid

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

I just realized that I have been selling Plugin-hybrids short.  For example
I say the PriusPrime has about "30 miles daily electric miles and
600 miles on gas."

But I should be saying 30 to 60 electric miles, or even 30 to 90 electric
miles. Because one could do 30 miles of errands in the morning, come home
(or pluging at work) using a modest 3.3 kW charge, and in 3 hours, get
another 30 electric miles for the afternoon, and come home in the afternoon
and another 3 hour charge and have another 30  electric miles during the
evening.

Note, I carefully do not use the term" range" as it could be confusing.  I
am talking about the number of typical "daily electric miles".

Its an important way to look at "daily electric miles."

Bob
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