from:"Peter Gabrielsson via EV"

Re: [EVDL] Do EVs make green sense?

2023-01-05 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

He's definitely interesting to listen to but keep in mind that he is
selling a book or 3. His analysis seems a bit simplistic but makes for
great sound bites.

In one video he claims solar panels will get more expensive due to labor
cost increasing, and according to him you just can't automate panel
production. Five minutes of research will show you how wrong that is.
(There are other factors that might drive panel cost up though)

He's not wrong that EVs use more energy to build but he does seem to blow
that aspect out of proportion. Plenty of reputable research has shown that
EVs have lower emissions over the life of the car, including production.

The resource consumption is a problem and for now EVs may remain a luxury
good and will definitely not save us from global warming. We can't consume
our way out of it.

I don't detect any strong political bias except a hard-on for anyone with
an aggressive foreign policy. His target audience seems to be rather right
leaning and US centric though.

While largely data driven his conclusions lean towards oil and gas being
the future and green tech being a silly distraction. He barely mentions
global warming.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 12:31 PM Michael Ross via EV  wrote:

> That subject is a bit of a troll, but I would like to have some
> conversation about whether EVs really make green sense or even profitable
> manufacturing sense.
>
> This is a short YouTube video by Peter Zeihan. Entitled
> EV's Not-so-little Dirty Secret(s)
> https://youtu.be/Qf85EuQKWeQ
> or search on YouTube for the title
>
> I hate it that on many points he is correct, but some others are not, but
> not necessarily in a good way.
>
> PZ is a demographer and geographer. He says that globalization (which was
> enabled by the US Naval presence in the shipping lanes since WWII) has
> ceased to exist and a lot of unsuccessful geographies are at the tipping
> point of big failure. Also Russia is dying, and China is even worse off.
> 10% of the world's calories came from Ukraine. Russia is a major source of
> big ag fertilizers. In a year we will be talking about global famine like
> we have not seen if the geopols are right.
>
> Anyway he is worth listening to.
>
> Regarding green tech, it is one of many tech that are dependent on
> globalization and in many ways on oil production. There is a lot to say
> which I won't try to explain. If you want to hear educated guesses about
> the next decades with only a fraction of manufactured production worldwide,
> check out Zeihan or the other geopoliticians out there.
>
> Regarding EVs, and Tesla in particular, PZ has a very good grip on where
> the material inputs come from, how long, and what it takes to ramp up
> production of things like new production of nickel, cobalt, neon, lithium,
> zinc, semiconductors, the energy cost for special aluminum for bodywork,
> and so on, and on, and on. It is not good. The carbon footprint of Teslas
> is not good when you correctly factor in the manufacturing footprint. He
> also notes that they are still a luxury car that is very often not the
> primary vehicle, but is instead a third or even forth car. That makes for a
> very long payback period before EVs start to look C neutral. He makes a
> good point that the carbon side of this only really works for light duty
> vehicles. The Ford eF150 is what, $90k?
>
>
> --
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 585-6737  Land
> (919) 901-2805 Cell and
> Text
> (919) 576-0824 
>  Tablet, Google Phone
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Re: [EVDL] Electric motor breakthrough

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

So there's an inner rotor, outer rotor and two side rotors. My question is
how do the get power to the stator and what holds the stator in place? How
do they cool the stator?

Smells a bit like snake oil but the seem to be hiring the right kind of
engineers so they might be serious.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 8:46 PM Alan Arrison via EV  wrote:

> Have you guys seen this? They are making some "too good to be true" claims.
>
> Their slick website is pretty convincing. Like most of the
> "breakthrough" technologies, there must be a downside.
>
> What say the motor gurus?
>
> https://www.linearlabsinc.com
>
> Al
>
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Re: [EVDL] Products with temperature sensing in the AC plug?

2018-09-25 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Thanks Lee,

I'm trying to find some prior art on this very obvious idea due to a recent
patent on it.

Would you happen to remember which brand used this feature?

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 7:25 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Peter Gabrielsson via EV wrote:
> > Can any of you oldtimers think of any product that had temperature
> sensing
> > in the AC plug? Preferably from before 2011.
>
> I suspect it's an old and "obvious" idea that's been used at various
> times by various manufacturers.
>
> Home microwave ovens were first offered in the late 1960's. They drew
> enough power for long enough to overheat kitchen outlets. At least one
> brand had a thermostatic cutout in the plug to prevent damage.
>
> My mother had an ancient turkey roaster; old enough that the cord was
> woven fabric instead of rubber or plastic. It had a thermal cutout in
> the plug.
> --
> Imagination is your preview of life's coming attractions.
> (Albert Einstein)
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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[EVDL] Products with temperature sensing in the AC plug?

2018-09-25 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Can any of you oldtimers think of any product that had temperature sensing
in the AC plug? Preferably from before 2011.

Thanks
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Re: [EVDL] Voltage spikes

2017-12-13 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

UL requires EVSEs to go through pretty serious surge testing, 6000V 3300A
if I recall correctly. All the EVSEs I've torn down have MOVs installed.

The vehicle has additional MOVs and protection.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 3:00 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV 
wrote:

> We live in an area with a fair number of thunderstorms and we see the
> lights blink a couple of times during a storm.  I have some appliances on
> surge protectors which leads to:
>
> 1)  How well are the home charging stations able to handle voltage spikes
> and not transmit the voltage to a pack?
>
> 2)  Should an EV be disconnected from the grid during a thunderstorm?
>
> 3)  Has anyone on this list examined the schematics for the various at home
> charging stations to try to determine the better ones?
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Re: [EVDL] EVDL: Hydrogen - here we go again? (or maybe?)

2017-05-25 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

It's still a waste. Round trip efficiency for splitting water, compressing
it for storage, extracting energy through fuel cell is very low:

from wikipedia
"
Practical electrolysis (using a rotating electrolyser at 15 bar pressure)
may consume 50 kilowatt-hours per kilogram (180 MJ/kg), and a further 15
kilowatt-hours (54 MJ) if the hydrogen is compressed for use in hydrogen
cars.[21] 
"

One kg of hydrogen contains 33kWh of energy, of which the fuel cell can
extract about half.

So you put 65kWh in and got 16kwh out, at best.

I don't know about you, but my roof only has room for so many solar panels
regardless of their cost.







On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 8:26 AM, 63urban via EV  wrote:

>
>
> If hydrogen can be used as a battery then it would not be a waste as the
> cost of solar comes down you have a use for excess capacity
> Nick
>
>
> Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
>
>  Original message 
> From: Peri Hartman via EV 
> Date: 2017-05-25  11:14 AM  (GMT-05:00)
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVDL: Hydrogen - here we go again? (or maybe?)
>
> Perhaps at some point. However, solar panels are still expensive and
> inefficient enough that it seems like a waste to convert their
> electricity to hydrogen. If I remember correctly, you'll loose 50% of
> the energy during that step versus maybe an 80% overall efficiency level
> for an EV.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc:
> Sent: 25-May-17 7:55:48 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVDL: Hydrogen - here we go again? (or maybe?)
>
> >Yet another “hydrogen future” article…
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.triplepundit.com/2017/05/hydrogen-economy-for-
> real/?utm_source=WEEKLY+TriplePundit+Mailing+List_
> campaign=8544b4d04e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_01_04_medium=email_term=0_
> 1d50d22c4a-8544b4d04e-220445429
> >
> >
> >
> >But one thing did catch my eye.  And that is the idea of SELF fueling?
> >The
> >#1 problem with Hydrogen is the complete lack of distribution network
> >AND
> >the complete lack of a clean source of Hydrogen.
> >
> >
> >
> >But what if we used the Ridiculously low cost of solar panels (now
> >under 25
> >cents a watt) to generate electricity on our homes to then electrolyze
> >water into hydrogen right at HOME?  That solves both of the major
> >hydrogen
> >car problems (distribution and clean)?
> >
> >
> >
> >After blowing up a few homes, I would think that we could come up with
> >suitable cheap and safe home electrolyzers and tank filler-uppers.
> >
> >
> >
> >This ALSO solves the growing problem of utility push-back killing
> >net-metring concepts and forcing more and more people into the econimcs
> >of
> >home storage.  If generating and storing hydrogen at home becomes an
> >appliance, there might be a niche…?
> >
> >
> >
> >Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-24 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

No, it's horsepucky. The car will throttle back to what the evse can supply.

On Sep 24, 2016 13:08, "ROBERT via EV"  wrote:

> The statement shown below was posted.  Can someone answer the question
> does a 6.6KW charger demand all or nothing?
>
>
>  I would think that all well designed, UL or CE listed chargers are
> designed for an input voltage of 100 - 264VAC (sometimes referred to as
> universal or international input).  If the 6.6 KW charger is a demand all
> charger, the input current must increase at 120VAC vs 240VAC.  For example,
> Output KW = 6.6 KW , Input voltage = 240VAC, Efficiency = 80%.  Then input
> current = (6.6KW / 0.8) /240VAC = 34A.  For 120VAC input, the input current
> = (6.6KW/0.8)/120VAC = 69A.  This is a rough calculation  I know have
> have not included power factor, current limiting, etc; however, it shows my
> point.  If I connect a 6.6KW charger to 120VAC, the input current increases
> because the output is fixed.  This being said, I think some if not all
> onboard EV chargers adjust the charger out based on the input voltage thus
> maintaining a 16A maximum input for 120VAC.  I think this is the function
> of the 1KZ output signal.  It tells the car charger the maximum current it
> can drawn from the EVSE.  Th
>  e charger then adjust its PWM duty cycle to limit the output power of the
> charger.  This means that a car with a 6.6KW charger connected to 120VAC
> EVSE only outputs approximately 120VAC * 16A * 0.8 eff = 1.5 KW.
>
>
> 
> From: EV  on behalf of Bill Dennis via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 9:58 AM
> To: 'Willie2'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase
>
> I think that the J1772 spec has a 1kHz signal on one of its lines, the duty
> cycle of which specifies the maximum charging current.   So the device
> you're looking at probably has a duty cycles of 25% or so, for around 15A.
>
> Bill
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 10:29 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase
>
> On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> > Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern
> > EV's.  Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence
> > Rhodes
> It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or
> nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw
> charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would
> fail
> to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

2016-09-23 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

No experience with the Duosida but I saw no UL or other agency marks on it.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> I need another L2 J1772 EVSE...
> I just checked Amazon and there are two L2 EVSE for $299.
>
> One comes with a dryer plug and is called Ebusbar BEV-H02A10 EV Charger
> Level 2, 240 Volt
>  Level-Volt/dp/B00TPSP760/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8=1474601282&
> sr=8-2=evse>
>
> The other has a 6-20R plug and is
>  Level-Volt/dp/B00TPSP760/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8=1474601282&
> sr=8-2=evse>
> New Duosida Portable Electric Vehicle Charger (220V-240V) - 22 ft long -
> Level 2 - 16 amp Electric Car Charger - J1772 - EVSE
>  B01HH1Z3DS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8=1474601282=8-4=evse>
>
>
> Im ok with just the 16 amps.  This Duosida's EVSE box is no bigger than the
> handle.  Glad to see size and bulk is coming down.
>
> Any objections to the Duosida?
>
> Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Cut-EVSE-cord-vandalism (pull-out cord)

2016-09-06 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Well, the safety agencies require it at the plug, or no more than 1 foot
from the plug. It kind of makes sense since the primary purpose of the EVSE
is to be a ground fault interrupter, it can only detect ground faults
downstream so you want it as close to the source as possible.

But the requirements seem to get softer every year so I'm sure we'll
eventually get back to the vacuum cleaner model. We just have to wait for
the volume to go up and the cost-cutting to begin.

Curiously European EVSE regulations don't require GFI/RCD functionality in
the EVSE itself, as long as it's a fixed  installation with a GFI/RCD
breaker upstream, so in that case they can almost do the vacuum cleaner
model already.

Meanwhile UL marked toasters are being sold without any safety measures.


On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:08 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> Eventually, a car MFR will wake up to the fact that he can put the entire
> EVSE on the car and have a simple #14 pull-out extension cord (lieka
> vacuum cleaner) that can plug into ANY standard 120v 15 am outlet.
>
> Then we will truly meet the valuie promise of the EV... thatis, charge
> anywhere and everywhere from the 200,000,000 standard oiutlets in every
> hhome in America...  For those in apartments.. it is a bit more
> complicated...  But why not make it simple for the 200,000,000 of us that
> have an outlet?
>
> The j1772 is needed only for L2 where there is not a standard, ubiquitous
> GFCI protected outleteverywhere.  But where there is a standard 120v
> outlet, why don't we make a commuter EV with that standard pull-out plug
> option.
>
> Bob
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 2:24 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cut-EVSE-cord-vandalism (not copper-thieves)
> Greenfield-MA
>
> David,
> You are describing the European charging stations that have a Mennekes
> connector on the pedestal and every EV comes with the charging cord that
> plugs into that Mennekes connector and into the EV.
> Only the US situation is that the cord is attached to the station.
> Apparently that is not always beneficial.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
> message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 11:20 AM
> To: brucedp5 via EV
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cut-EVSE-cord-vandalism (not copper-thieves)
> Greenfield-MA
>
> I know it would be more inconvenient but why doesn't every EV have their
> own J1772 extension cord and the EVSE just have a socket like on the
> vehicle? This way no cord is left at the charge station and every car can
> lock the cord to the car. When a car is done charging another vehicle can
> plug in and leave the first car's cord on the ground with the protective
> cap on.
>
> David D. Nelson
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
> From: brucedp5 via EV
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Re: [EVDL] French man electrocuted while trying to steal petrol from an EV> a burning smell was noticed

2016-05-26 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

The BS detector is going wild on this one.


On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 12:40 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> % He problably tried to punch a hole into what he thought was the gas tank,
> but found out the hard-way it was the EV's high-voltage pack ... Protester
> blocked refineries, panic-buying, train driver strike = France's ice
> dependency %
>
>
> http://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2016/05/25/french-man-electrocuted-to-death-while-trying-to-steal-petrol-from-electric-car
> French man electrocuted to death while trying to steal petrol from electric
> car
> [20160524]
>
> [image
>
> http://ia.tmgrup.com.tr/1502f7/645/344/0/11/800/438?u=http://i.tmgrup.com.tr/dailysabah/2016/05/25/1464202662169.jpg
> A photo taken on May 18, 2016 shows a gas station closed due to a
> non-supply
> from blocked refineries as part of the protest against the government's
> planned labour law reforms. (AFP Photo)
> ]
>
> As 4,026 petrol stations experience fuel shortage amid the stand-off
> between
> workers unions and the French government, people are desperately trying to
> find petrol for their vehicles.
>
> Tragically, this fuel shortage led to a man's painful death in eastern
> France on Tuesday.
>
> A man who ran out of petrol in the middle of the night in France's Basançon
> city, hopelessly and in panic sought fuel for his car.
>
> With no fuel left in France's blockaded petrol stations, the man resorted
> to
> stealing fuel from another car.
>
> The man unknowingly tried to pump out fuel from an electric car which
> electrocuted him to death.
>
> He was only noticed when nearby people got a burning smell.
>
> However, it was too late for him and despite medical treatment he could not
> be saved.
>
>
> The incident comes amid fuel shortage in France after the head of the oil
> industry federation announced on Wednesday that the country has been using
> strategic fuel reserves for two days.
>
> Many people have been panic-buying and filling their tanks as precaution as
> consumption has tripled in areas in the face of widespread blockades of oil
> depots by union activists.
>
> This marks the first time in 6 years that the country has mobilized
> strategic oil stocks which has led to an outbreak of protests.
>
> France has used three out of 115 days of fuel reserves to deal with the
> shortages so far.
>
> About 40 percent of gas stations in the Paris region have been hit by
> partial or total shortages, and 11 fuel depots have been unblocked by
> police
> since the protests.
>
> Union members at a major oil terminal in the English Channel port city of
> Le
> Havre plan to block imports on Thursday as part of broader one-day strikes
> against the labor bill.
>
> Meanwhile, train drivers also staged a one-day strike on Wednesday ...
> Employers warned the protests were starting to hurt the economy ...
> Police broke up a fuel depot blockade with water cannons ...
> Ministers insisted that Socialist President Francois Hollande's government
> would stand firm and ensure fuel supplies, with strategic reserves large
> enough to last more than three months.
>
> At stake is a labor market reform to make it easier for firms to hire and
> fire ...
> The contested labor reform included longer workdays, easier layoffs and
> weaker unions
> Protesters say the bill would badly damage employees' rights.
>
> The proposal technically maintains the 35-hour workweek, which was
> conceived
> to fight joblessness –now at a rate hovering at 10 percent- by spreading
> work across more people, but still allows companies to organize alternative
> working times ...
> [© 2016 TURKUVAZ COMMUNICATION AND PUBLICATION CORPORATION]
>
>
>
>
> http://lechodelaboucle.fr/2016/05/24/penurie-dessence-meurt-electrocute-tentant-de-siphonner-voiture-electrique/
> [French>translate.google>English]
> Gas shortage: it dies electrocuted while trying to siphon off an electric
> car
> May 24, 2016
>
> Besançon - "Although ill-gotten never profit" This is a wise proverb which
> would probably benefited this unfortunate Bisontin if he had survived the
> dramatic misadventure which he suffered that night in the neighborhood of
> Chaprais.
>
> The tank of his car being almost dry and the city's petrol stations that
> might not be supplied due to the current blockage of refineries, Bisontin
> forty years nightly decides to anticipate the siphoning tank of a car
> parked
> in a discrete curve of a street near the train station Viotte.
>
> Although evil has taken him the vehicle in question was an electric car and
> a powerful electric arc quickly overcame the criminal intentions of the
> individual. Awakened by a strong smell of burning, residents quickly warned
> firefighters who, despite their rapid response, have done anything for the
> unfortunate.
> [© 2016 Echo Boucle]
>
>
>
> [dated]
>
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/12/05/electric_car_charging_illegal_man_arrested_for_charging_electric_car_in.html
> Why Did This Man Get Arrested

Re: [EVDL] OEM EV charging on 120V with no ground?

2015-10-06 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

The safety concern is that you have no protection ground so a ground fault
inside the vehicle may result in the body of your vehicle becoming live.

I've never seen an RV pedestal without ground though? I though that was
required for any outdoor outlets.

If this is a permanent thing you might want to drive a ground rod next to
the pedestal.





On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 5:07 PM, David Nelson via EV 
wrote:

> What are the safety issues of charging an OEM EV on 120V without the
> ground wire connected? I do have an EVSE which will do this if I put
> 100kohm resistors between hot-ground and neutral-ground which is what
> I have to do to charge with my portable-inverter generator. I'm not
> concerned with generator charging but charging from an RV pedestal.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> David D. Nelson
> http://evalbum.com/1328
> http://www.levforum.com
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>
>


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Re: [EVDL] Polarity Reversal (duh)

2015-07-06 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

I hooked up a power-supply to my 120V pack once, backwards. The arc was
bright, the bang was loud, leads were vaporized.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

Sharing my mistakes so others can avoid them.

Wife was outta town so I hauled over the Honda Civic DC conversion project
to the driveway. Didn’t really have time to mess with it (day job bekons
12,14, 16 hrs a day and all that).

So I plugged in the charger (hasn’t been plugged in in 6 months). Was
gonna keep an eye on it and forgot. Got to work, remembered, and 2 hours
lateer got home to a melted extension cord. (At least now I will be more
tolerant when the wife insists on going back home because she may have
forgotten the iron).

So then I switched to a conventional charger to top off the 12v accessory
battery. It was completely dead.

Came home (again around 10PM) and all looked ok. Battery was fully
charged.

This morning (realizing wife is coming home tomorrow), its time to move the
bucket of bolts back to its hiding place (which is up hill)… Turned it on
and the only thing that worked was the Windshield Wipers (going backwards)…
and lights. Hummh…

Darned if I did not charge the 12v battry BACKWARDS. Why did I do that?
Well, the battery has a big round RED dot sticker (to show the date of
purchase) and it is stuck on the battery right next to the negative
terminal.

And now you know the rest of the story… well, except that the controller
and everything else electronic in the car is probably shot. And we wont
know till later tonight how I get the 3000 lb car up the hill to its hiding
place…

Don’t do this at home…

But you ask, “But modern battery chargers will not charge a dead or
reversed battery”… No, so I paralleled it with a jump-start battery to get
it started… (Lead Acid batteries have the same LEAD on both the positive
and negative terminals. The polarity is deermined by how you charge it!)

The windshield wipers comment was a trick question just to see if you were
paying attention.

Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Good data or bad? How do you know? Or is it the interpretation?

2015-06-27 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

He proved that putting parasitic loads on some cells in a series string
vill cause the string to go out of balance. Nothing else.
On Jun 27, 2015 1:37 PM, Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 https://www.youtube.com/user/jlghardy/videos

 John Hardy's YouTube channel is extremely interesting (here) he test some
 of the theories out there about li ion batteries and the effect of a BMS.

 In the video battery test 2 he demonstrates that a cell balancer
 actually damages the cells.


 Sent from my iPad

  On Jun 27, 2015, at 2:28 AM, David Nelson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
  I have a question about the self-discharge data Cor (below) and Lee
  has listed and/or referred to in various posts on the EVDL and more
  recently referred to in the various self-discharge threads.
 
  On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
  ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
  I have shared that I have a pack of
  used LiFePO4 cells in my garage and I have measured its self discharge
 and I have seen
  the cells go down towards zero and obviously I did not want to destroy
 the pack, so
  as soon as they went below 2.5V due to self-discharge, I recharged
 them. Capacity was
  good, so it looks like it is not the capacity fade that causes
 self-discharge apparently.
 
  How do we know that what Cor is seeing is self-discharge and not
  something else? My question comes from the fact that these are used
  cells and there is no information about how they were used. Were they
  abused or treated properly? What are the specifics to how they were
  treated so that others can review the information to see if a cell
  that was treated properly/abused was in fact abused/treated properly?
  In the case of Cor's cells which discharged below 2.5V with no
  external circuit I would remove them from my pack as they are
  defective.
 
  If the cells Cor measured were in fact abused (in the true sense
  whether or not any one knows what that is) then the measurements don't
  point to self-discharge of the type of cell but to discharge due to
  some form of internal damage to the cell. If these data are not
  compared to data from good cells then we have an inaccurate picture of
  what might be happening. I'm thinking of a paper I was reading in the
  early '90s about the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster. The decision
  to launch was based only on data from launches where there was some
  issue so the model gave an incorrect outcome. I found it interesting
  that when all data from all launches was put in the model the outcome
  was don't launch. We need to be careful we don't fall into the same
  kind of thing.
 
  I started out thinking that LiFePO4 cells had a self discharge similar
  to how lead acid, NiCd, and NiMH batteries do. It has been through
  multiple research papers and presentations that I found out otherwise.
  I and others have posted links and references to some of these reports
  including one from a university in Canada that Tesla has recently
  signed a contract with on battery related development. Just because a
  company decides to put a cell level BMS on their battery pack doesn't
  mean that the batteries they are using have a self-discharge. Maybe
  they are ignorant, maybe they are concerned that over time cells will
  develop internal damage and behave like the used cells Cor has tested,
  maybe they have decided to push the limits on the cells and want to
  protect against the inevitable, maybe they don't expect any need for
  the BMS but don't trust that 100% of the cells were manufactured
  perfectly. Maybe they didn't do destructive tests to really find out
  what causes cells to die and what their failure mechanism is.
 
  I believe it is John Hardy, in the UK, who built a device to monitor
  cell voltages which put exactly the same load on each cell so as to
  not introduce an external imbalance in the set of test cells. After
  hundreds (over 900 IIRC) of cycles he hasn't found any drift between
  cells which implies that whatever capacity loss mechanisms are in the
  cells they aren't showing up as varying between cells after long term
  cycling.
 
  Even with Cor's data, it doesn't prove that there is a self-discharge
  mechanism in the cells. There are multiple independent sources which
  have clearly stated that there isn't a self-discharge mechanism built
  into the cells that using that argument as to why a cell level or sub
  pack level BMS is a requirement is disingenuous at best. I can think
  of many other reasons why one might want one, however.
 
  In these discussions lets not forget that there are many variables
  which can affect outcomes and cause one to come to the wrong
  conclusions. It is even possible to come to the right conclusion for
  the wrong reasons. That doesn't make the reasons right. Also, just
  because someone doesn't agree with your interpretation of data doesn't
  make them someone who doesn't want to learn or a troll. Maybe go study
  the references they

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to conventional batteries

2015-04-07 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

It sure looks interesting, more information here:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature14340.html
If I did the math correctly it seems like it's in the 120-140 wh/kg range.
Certainly usable for EVs.

Hopefully it makes it out of the lab.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Does anybody know any more about this research?

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html

Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte.

It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at
all about capacity. They claim super-fast charging times without indicating
how much energy the batteries actually take on. They claim several thousand
charge cycles. No mention of energy density per mass. The prototype is
bendable, in what looks for all the world like a mylar ziploc bag. They
show the battery being drilled into with minimal ill effect.

I find it intriguing to consider for an electric vehicle...because a
super-fast charging time, if real, would similarly imply a super-fast
discharge rate. It gives the appearance of being technology within the
reach of an hobbyist to manufacture. Form factor is obviously quite
literally flexible.

In other words...I can almost imagine building a battery like this,
myself, at home, to put into a car conversion. Or, if it's too heavy for
vehicles, then to stick in the closet to pair with the solar PV array.

Any experts out there have any good water to throw over me?

b
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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

You may be confusing power and energy
On Apr 7, 2015 2:59 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per
kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density--so you'd need
more of them to get the same power. That might get better as they improve
the cells, of course.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to
conventional batteries

Does anybody know any more about this research?

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html

Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte.

It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at all
about capacity. They claim super-fast charging times without indicating how
much energy the batteries actually take on. They claim several thousand
charge cycles. No mention of energy density per mass. The prototype is
bendable, in what looks for all the world like a mylar ziploc bag. They
show
the battery being drilled into with minimal ill effect.

I find it intriguing to consider for an electric vehicle...because a
super-fast charging time, if real, would similarly imply a super-fast
discharge rate. It gives the appearance of being technology within the
reach
of an hobbyist to manufacture. Form factor is obviously quite literally
flexible.

In other words...I can almost imagine building a battery like this, myself,
at home, to put into a car conversion. Or, if it's too heavy for vehicles,
then to stick in the closet to pair with the solar PV array.

Any experts out there have any good water to throw over me?

b
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Is a piddling $8/mo Extra Electricity Worth a Tesla over an i3?

2015-03-20 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Such useless drivel.

BMW I3  = $40k
Tesla = $75k

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 3:39 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:




 http://motoringcrunch.com/news/tesla-model-s-vs-bmw-i3-8-extra-electricity-is-worth-it/1009927/
 Tesla Model S vs BMW i3: $8 Extra Electricity Is Worth It
 March 15, 2015

 When it comes to the best electric cars in the world, many will name the
 BMW
 i3 as it offers the best electrical mileage than other cars. Then again, we
 feel that consumers are better off with the Tesla Model S and here’s why.

 Many research shows that the Tesla Model S is about 16% less efficient than
 the BMW i3 and this is blamed on the weight of the former which is twice
 heavier than the latter. Even so, the American EV has a huge 265miles
 driving range which overshadows the BMW i3’s 81mile driving range.

 On an average monthly mileage for an everyday car, it seems that Model S
 owners have to spend $8 more on electricity than the BMW i3. Well, this $8
 extra is well worth it as owners will get a longer driving range and also a
 more spacious interior.

 With that being said, consumers are highly encouraged to opt for the Tesla
 Model S instead of the BMW i3. The Model S might not be as efficient but
 consumers will actually be getting more out of their vehicle for a small
 extra fee of $8.
 [© motoringcrunch.com]




 http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1095518_tesla-model-s-vs-bmw-i3-electric-car-efficiency-comparison-test/page-2
 Tesla Model S Vs BMW i3: Electric-Car Efficiency Comparison Test Page 2
 By  David Noland  Nov 18, 2014 ... For all the i3's high-tech carbon fiber
 and clean-sheet technology, its efficiency advantage over the much bigger,
 faster Model S amounts to a piddling $8 a month in electricity costs
 (assuming 15,000 miles per year and the national average electricity cost
 of
 11 cents per kWh.) ...
 [© 2015 Green Car Reports]
 ...
 BMW i3 Forum • View topic - i3 v Tesla S - Elecric Efficiency ...
 www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2t=1850?
 The Tesla -mainly due to the higher range- tempts to 'floor it' more ...
 efficiency  difference amounts to a piddling $8 a month in electricity
 costs.




 http://www.ubergizmo.com/2015/03/tesla-to-end-model-s-range-anxiety-with-software-update/
 Tesla To End Model S ‘Range Anxiety’ With Software Update
 03/15/2015




 For EVLN posts use:
 http://evdl.org/evln/

 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=subject%3Aevln+NOT+subject%3Aredays=0sort=date


 http://www.mearnsleader.co.uk/what-s-on/leisure/drive-down-the-electric-avenue-1-3715974
 Drive down the electric avenue cheaper running costs 2/3 per mile ...


 http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3001708cloc=joongangdaily%7Chome%7Cnewslist1
 LG Chem (not Samsung SDI) to supply batteries for BMW EVs


 http://seekingalpha.com/article/3012816-yamaha-motor-corp-with-f1s-gordon-murray-aboard-2-wheels-good-4-wheels-better
 Yamaha With F1's Gordon Murray Aboard, 2 Wheels Good, 4 Wheels Better

 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=subject%3Aevln+subject%3AYamaha+NOT+subject%3Aredays=0sort=date

 http://ecomento.com/2015/03/16/electric-car-charging-station-revenue/
 Can anyone make money running an EV charging business?

 http://cdn.ecomento.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ev-charging-station-revenue.jpg


 http://globalnews.ca/news/1880238/vernon-hotel-installs-electric-vehicle-charging-stations/
 holidayinn.com in Vernon.ca installed hwpc  SCH L2 EVSE

 http://i2.wp.com/media.globalnews.ca/videostatic/233/815/GK120315electriccar_tnb_2.jpg
 +
 EVLN: Opel and Vauxhall to sell a rebadged Bolt EV


 {brucedp.150m.com}



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 View this message in context:
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Is-a-piddling-8-mo-Extra-Electricity-Worth-a-Tesla-over-an-i3-tp4674361.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
 Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Grid Solar kits?

2014-12-22 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

I'm contemplating this myself. There are cheaper kits though,
http://www.renogy-store.com/category-s/1872.htm

The only thing I worry about is the building department and permits, the
mounting and wiring looks easy enough.

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

Has anyone had experience getting a local electrician to install a
grid-tie-solar kit such as the one offered by Home Depot? The cheapest
one is about $2588 for a 1kW kit.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-Solar-1-060-Watt-Expandable-Mono-Crystall
ine-PV-Grid-Tied-Solar-Power-Kit-GS-1060-KIT/205495634

That is my recommendation to all DIY folks. Buy the $2588 kit, pay $500
for an electrician to install it and help him with any local solar/utility
paperwork. Get Grid-tied, approved and certified. Total cost is about $3
per watt but only for this first 1kW.

Then add on to it at UNDER $1/watt after all the approvals and
certifications and grid tie are complete.

The typical cost for full contractor systems is up around $4 to $5 per
watt.

Application to EV's (and EVDL list) is that this is the CARBON FREE way
to charge.

Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] Police.cn warn of dangers long scarves e-mopeds don't mix

2014-12-10 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

No capes!

Seriously though, what does this have to do with electrics specifically.
Doesn't it apply to all mopeds, motorcycles and bikes?

On Wednesday, December 10, 2014, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=2014120612cid=1103
Long scarves pose health risks in China
2014-12-06

[image] (girl torso in hospital bed)
A ten-year-old girl was paralyzed when her long scarf got stuck in the
wheel
of an electric moped. (Internet photo)

Several cases of people being seriously injured after their long scarves
got
stuck in the wheels of their electric mopeds have been reported across
China, reports our Chinese-language sister paper Want Daily.

A ten-year-old girl was paralyzed after falling off an electric moped
because her long scarf was entangled in the vehicle's wheel in Handan City,
Hebei province. She could not move and had difficulty breathing after the
fall. Around 15 hours later, she was hospitalized and later transferred to
larger hospital for surgery. There, she was told she had broke her spine
and
damaged her muscles. Despite the surgeries, the girl has to rely on machine
to breath now.

A woman in Hangzhou, Zhejiang province, went into a coma after her scarf
got
struck in the wheel of her electric moped, and on Nov. 8, a 7-year-old girl
was pulled off of a moped her mother was driving for a similar reason. The
girl was lucky though and only suffered from abrasions to her head.

A doctor in Shijiazhuang City, Hebei province said such accidents occur
every year as scarves can easily get stuck to various places such as the
elevator and bus doors as well as moped wheels. Police have warned people
against the dangers of long scarves.
[© wantchinatimes.com]

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Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.

2014-11-07 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

One relatively cheap way of doing high power cycle testing is to cycle
power between a large battery bank and the test battery using a
bidirectional DCDC converter.

The DCDC is simple since it's just a switching pole with an inductor and
some controls. A DC motor controller with regen capability can be used as
the DCDC converter, the controls should have a constant torque (current)
mode for it to be useful.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Thank you , Lee.

 Some concerns about cost may drop away because I am not aiming at
 automotive EVs - for now , maybe never.

 Because I need to go for some grant funding, I have to be aimed at
 manufacturers - job creation is what everything is about these days (I
 don't disagree).  The automotive manufacturers will likely build their own
 labs.  But, the LEV (and smaller) market is in need of some help.

 I think electronic loads are a good idea, but I will have to roll my own
 stuff for a while; that will be a good learning experience I am sure.

 Just guessing, I suspect I can do a lot with 50A of current and load.
  6000W is pushing 10 HP.  Electronic loads that size would be costly.

 I need to sort this out better though.  I am trying to put together a
 survey to collect information about testing people need but can't do,
 testing they would far out if the cost was right, and so on.  I need a
 range of packs sizes in this space.  I know there is still some lead acid
 being used, so I probably need to consider that, but the arc of the future
 is probably Lithium batteries.

 I am already set up to use National Instruments DAQ and Keithley DMM
 instruments.  I already program extensively in LabVIEW, so we will stick
 with that (also the university has a site license for it).  We get an
 academic discount on hardware and NI has an extensive array of choices.

 I am still interested in seeing DIY setups - that is always very
 instructive.




 On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:

  Roger has some excellent advice here. It reflects a lot of what I do
  myself. :-)
 
  Roger Stockton via EV wrote:
 
  Thought I'd mention that while a programmable load is an *excellent*
  way to discharge when testing batteries, it can be pricey...
 
 
  Indeed. Programmable loads get very expensive if you are dealing with
 high
  power (high voltages and/or high currents). They are also effective room
  heaters. Good in Minnesota winters; but bad in Arizona in the summer when
  you're already paying to air condition.
 
   If you already have a data logger or other means of
  measuring/controlling a load and charger, then perhaps consider using
  a passive load in parallel with a smaller electronic load, so that
  you can save money on the electronic load purchase.
 
  A simple QBasic program on an old laptop controlled the relay for
  the load and another for the charger via the parallel port.
 
 
  This is the approach I use. I have a couple of $50 DAQ118 analog/digital
  I/O modules that plug into my PC. They have several 12-bit analog inputs
  (to read voltages, currents, and temperatures), outputs (to throttle the
  charger, and digital output channels (operate relays to select various
  loads).
 
  They are run by a PC with software written in QuickBASIC. I have an old
 PC
  that is too slow for anything modern; but has a parallel port and is
  rock-solid-reliable and can run tests for days.
 
  These modules were bought in 2002. I'm not sure if they are available
  today, but there are lots of equivalents.
 
  I also have a Keithley 576 Measurement and Control system. This is a
  stand-alone data acquisition controller. Rather tedious to set up, but
 lots
  of channels, high precision, and very versatile.
 
  I use these with a commercial battery charger for charging, and a custom
  made load box that basically consists of a bunch of big power resistors,
 in
  a box, with a fan, and relays to select the load resistance in a stepwise
  1-2-4-8 sequence.
 
   I started out with a battery cycler setup consisting of a bank of 12VDC
  Edison-base (household screw-type) light bulbs
 
 
  Light bulbs are a good *and* cheap load resistor. :-) As Roger says, they
  have the useful feature of drawing a roughly constant current despite
  changes in voltage. This is a simple way to get an approximately constant
  load current despite the sagging voltage as the battery discharges.
 
  I've used car headlights (about 4 amps each) and taillights (about 1 amp
  each) as load resistors for 12v battery testing.
 
   A simple QBasic program on an old laptop controlled the relay for
  the load and another for the charger via the parallel port.
  An E-meter with the RS232 comms option provided voltage, current,
  etc. measurements to the QBasic program.
 
 
  This describes the most common load tester I use. I have a few E-Meters /
  Link 10 / ProLink meters (all the same meter, but sold respectively by
  Cruising

Re: [EVDL] Range vs Speed

2014-11-06 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

There's definitely a huge reduction in consumption when I drive at a steady
~30-40mph in traffic compared to 65mph+. Some days, when the charger fails
me, I pray for traffic so I can make it home.

Surface streets with all the stop signs and lights however don't reduce my
consumption nearly as much.

My car is the reciprocal of yours but the physics remain the same.

Of course, if you have very high tear loads then the longer run time will
cut into any reduction in miles per kWh.

Do you run 4wd? A miss-match in tire size could cause high losses.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:38 AM, John Lussmyer via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

I should have mentioned, this is with my electric F-250.
Aerodynamics of a brick.
I was REALLY expecting the much higher aero losses at high speed to make a
measureable difference.

On Wed Nov 05 21:43:42 PST 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
I'm not seeing much difference in power usage at different speeds.
Last night, I drove 60 miles on the highway/freeway, almost entirely at
60mph.
used 125AH out of my freshly charged pack.
Tonight, I drove the return trip, taking almost an hour longer due to
horrible slow traffic on the freeway. Often stopped or below 10mph.
Same power usage.

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck!
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] Dissimilar metals on Headyways?

2014-09-19 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Wow, I can't believe they actually used steel in those connections. I had
heard about it but presumed people were confusing nickel-plating with
steel. Nope, that is steel with rust an everything.

Stay away!

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 On 19 Sep 2014 at 5:30, via EV wrote:

  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
  URL: 
 http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140919/b9981ecd/attachment.htm
 

 Please post in plain text, or use a mail system / client that knows how to
 send multipart MIME.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

 The HTML message quarantined on the server includes a link to the Endless
 Sphere ebike forum, and disassembly of a headway cell.

 http://www.endless-
 sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14t=8109hilit=BMI+inside

 One photo seems to show an aluminum contact disc WELDED to a steel
 baseplate
 into which the terminal screw is threaded.  I didn't expect to see that.

 As I wrote before, I can't see how using aluminum intercell connectors
 would
 help.  On the contrary, in fact.  You'd be adding yet another junction
 between dissimilar metals.

 I'd probably use Headway's own (plated?) cell interconnects and be done
 with
 it.

 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator

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[EVDL] Fwd: Gabrielsson Approval Items

2014-09-12 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

See below email.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Poindexter, Julianne jpoindex...@homedirectmortgage.com
Date: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: Gabrielsson Approval Items
To: Peter Gabrielsson peter.gabriels...@gmail.com
Cc: jle...@remax.net jle...@remax.net, Severino, Brandon 
bsever...@homedirectmortgage.com

Hi Peter,

Looks like there were termites found from your report. We will need to see
that those were all treated. Also, I did not see an invoice for this
inspection. We’ll need an invoice showing the treatment was done and paid
for as well.

Thanks Peter,

Julianne Poindexter

HomeDirect

NMLS #1190476

Phone: (913)333-5678

Fax: 1(913)982-8629

*From:* Peter Gabrielsson [mailto:peter.gabriels...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:08 PM
*To:* Poindexter, Julianne
*Cc:* jle...@remax.net; Severino, Brandon
*Subject:* Re: Gabrielsson Approval Items

termite report

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Poindexter, Julianne 
jpoindex...@homedirectmortgage.com wrote:

Hi Peter  Sheri,

Congratulations! We heard back from underwriting today and your loan has
received an underwriting approval!  This is the best news we could have
hoped for! Our next step in this process is to gather the final items that
the underwriter has requested and submit them back to him/her as soon as
possible.  Here is a short list of items I need for our final underwriting
review. The items in red are ones that we need from your realtor or that
he/she should be able to help you obtain.

*1.**   Please have the seller sign the attached two documents
entitled, “Buyers Inspection Advisory”  “Market Conditions Advisory”.*

*2.**   Copy of a clear termite inspection. We will need the invoice
for this also.*

*3.**   Please complete the attached document entitled, “Credit Inquiry
Disclosure”.*

*4.**   A copy of your canceled earnest money check. (“Canceled” just
means “cashed”, and you should be able to pull up an image of the front and
back of the cashed check online).*

*5.**   A copy of a 30 day bank statement to verify the balance of your
account after that check has cleared. Bank statement must include your
name, the bank name, full account number, and must include all pages, even
if one is blank. If a new statement is not available you will have to go to
the bank and have them print one out that is signed and stamped by them. *

*6.**   Please let me know once you have set up Home Owners Insurance
on the property. Once you have set up your policy, email me your agent’s
contact information; We will need to order Evidence of Insurance asap.
Please only send me this information once the policy is finalized, not in
quote form.*

*7.**   Lastly, we need you both to sign the initial Uniform
Residential Loan Application (the 1003) electronically through elynx.
(similar to how you signed your disclosures) So for this I will send you
another email after this one that will ask you to log in to a secure link
and you will have to scroll through, print out, hand-sign, and scan or
email back to me. Let me know if you have any questions with this one. I’ll
send the link after this one, and if you could sign that within the next 72
hours as that one will expire after that.*

Please let me know of any questions that you may have regarding the items
above or this process.  You may email or fax the requested items back to
me. As soon as we receive these we can move forward! J

We are making great progress! Congratulations again!!

Julianne Poindexter

HomeDirect Mortgage

Fax: (913)323-8538

Phone: (913)333-5678

**
The company reserves the right to amend statements made herein in the event
of a mistake. Unless expressly stated herein to the contrary, only
agreements in writing signed by an authorized officer of the Company may be
enforced against it.
**
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Re: [EVDL] Gabrielsson Approval Items

2014-09-12 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Please ignore previous email. Need coffee

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Peter Gabrielsson
peter.gabriels...@gmail.com wrote:

See below email.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Poindexter, Julianne jpoindex...@homedirectmortgage.com
Date: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: Gabrielsson Approval Items
To: Peter Gabrielsson peter.gabriels...@gmail.com
Cc: jle...@remax.net jle...@remax.net, Severino, Brandon
bsever...@homedirectmortgage.com

Hi Peter,

Looks like there were termites found from your report. We will need to see
that those were all treated. Also, I did not see an invoice for this
inspection. We’ll need an invoice showing the treatment was done and paid
for as well.

Thanks Peter,

Julianne Poindexter

HomeDirect

NMLS #1190476

Phone: (913)333-5678

Fax: 1(913)982-8629

*From:* Peter Gabrielsson [mailto:peter.gabriels...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:08 PM
*To:* Poindexter, Julianne
*Cc:* jle...@remax.net; Severino, Brandon
*Subject:* Re: Gabrielsson Approval Items

termite report

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Poindexter, Julianne
jpoindex...@homedirectmortgage.com wrote:

Hi Peter Sheri,

Congratulations! We heard back from underwriting today and your loan has
received an underwriting approval! This is the best news we could have
hoped for! Our next step in this process is to gather the final items that
the underwriter has requested and submit them back to him/her as soon as
possible. Here is a short list of items I need for our final underwriting
review. The items in red are ones that we need from your realtor or that
he/she should be able to help you obtain.

*1.** Please have the seller sign the attached two documents
entitled, “Buyers Inspection Advisory” “Market Conditions Advisory”.*

*2.** Copy of a clear termite inspection. We will need the invoice
for this also.*

*3.** Please complete the attached document entitled, “Credit
Inquiry Disclosure”.*

*4.** A copy of your canceled earnest money check. (“Canceled” just
means “cashed”, and you should be able to pull up an image of the front and
back of the cashed check online).*

*5.** A copy of a 30 day bank statement to verify the balance of
your account after that check has cleared. Bank statement must include your
name, the bank name, full account number, and must include all pages, even
if one is blank. If a new statement is not available you will have to go to
the bank and have them print one out that is signed and stamped by them. *

*6.** Please let me know once you have set up Home Owners Insurance
on the property. Once you have set up your policy, email me your agent’s
contact information; We will need to order Evidence of Insurance asap.
Please only send me this information once the policy is finalized, not in
quote form.*

*7.** Lastly, we need you both to sign the initial Uniform
Residential Loan Application (the 1003) electronically through elynx.
(similar to how you signed your disclosures) So for this I will send you
another email after this one that will ask you to log in to a secure link
and you will have to scroll through, print out, hand-sign, and scan or
email back to me. Let me know if you have any questions with this one. I’ll
send the link after this one, and if you could sign that within the next 72
hours as that one will expire after that.*

Please let me know of any questions that you may have regarding the items
above or this process. You may email or fax the requested items back to
me. As soon as we receive these we can move forward! J

We are making great progress! Congratulations again!!

Julianne Poindexter

HomeDirect Mortgage

Fax: (913)323-8538

Phone: (913)333-5678

**
The company reserves the right to amend statements made herein in the
event of a mistake. Unless expressly stated herein to the contrary, only
agreements in writing signed by an authorized officer of the Company may be
enforced against it.
**

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Re: [EVDL] Vacuum Switch

2014-09-11 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

I used something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMC-ZSE4-LCD-Readout-Digital-Pressure-Switch-for-Vacuum-ZSE4-01-25-/181468926790?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2a40641346

The set-points are adjustable.

You can find a wide variety of them on ebay. Mine had transistor output so
I had to add a relay driver.

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 12:32 AM, Buddy Mills via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

I am looking for a vacuum switch that has a wider or adjustable range
between on and off. I am about to put two switches on and use a relay to
accomplish but was wondering if there was a simpler way to keep the vacuum
pump from cycling so often.

Thanks,

Buddy Mills

mailto:buddymi...@cox.net buddymi...@cox.net

Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887
http://www.evalbum.com/2887

Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing
this
email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either
fictional
or greatly exaggerated.

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Re: [EVDL] Ride an EV, Skip the Exercise?

2014-09-11 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

The device might be sensitive to the electromagnetic fields your car emits.

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:07 AM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

My wife has been wearing a Fit Bit device, which tracks both the number of
steps she takes and the number of floors she climbs daily. An odd thing is
happening though: when I drive her home from work in my EV, a 1500-ft (450
m) ascent, the device falsely gives her credit for about 7 floors climbed.
Yet when we make the trip in one of our ICE cars, it registers no such
floor-climbing credit. My first thought is that maybe the stiffer
suspension on the EV is causing more vibration and fooling the device into
thinking that she's walking--does that sound plausible? Or are there other
possibilities anyone could think of? We've already tried removing the
device from her belt and putting it in her purse for the duration of the
ride, but it still gives her the credit. I mean, I know that my EV is
great, but I don't think she's getting healthier just by riding in it. :)

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] Stud type fuse block needed

2014-09-08 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Ah, an incendiary device! It seems to me replacing the burnt out car might
cost more than the fuses.


On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Jan Steinman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

  From: Lloyd Wayne Reece via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 
  I have purchased a fuse for an EV in the making and now I need a fuse
  block that I can use to attach the fuse and the wiring to.

 Expensive little suckers, aren't they?

 Having looked at fuses and circuit breakers in the EV range, I've decided
 on constructing a fusible link. Go two sizes smaller than your main
 conductor, put a lug on one end to attach to the battery, and do a soldered
 butt-splice to your main conductor, covered with a few layers of heat
 shrink -- a fuse for 1/100th the price!

 I decided on this approach because my batteries will be in three strings,
 and you need protection for each string, lest the main conductor connecting
 your strings together gets shorted in an accident or something. I did not
 want to pay for three high-current fuses and holders.

  He was a very inferior farmer when he first began, and he is now fast
 rising from affluence to poverty. -- Mark Twain
  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

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Re: [EVDL] Stud type fuse block needed

2014-09-08 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

You can find leftover amptrap fuses on ebay for quite cheap. I'd rather
trust those than some skipole/solder contraption. There's a reason those
fuses have 1/8inch thick shells and are filled with sand.

Anyway, good luck.

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Jan Steinman j...@ecoreality.org wrote:

Yea, I forgot the part where I put the whole thing inside a section of
fiberglass cross-country ski pole. That should contain the shrapnel, and I
shrink-wrap the fiberglass to the main conductor, which hopefully keeps it
from contacting ground.

Fiberglass ski poles can be had at thrift stores for $1, but they usually
make you take the skis with them. :-)

Jan

On 2014-09-08, at 13:33, Peter Gabrielsson wrote:

Ah, an incendiary device! It seems to me replacing the burnt out car
might cost more than the fuses.

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Jan Steinman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
From: Lloyd Wayne Reece via EV ev@lists.evdl.org

I have purchased a fuse for an EV in the making and now I need a fuse
block that I can use to attach the fuse and the wiring to.

Expensive little suckers, aren't they?

Having looked at fuses and circuit breakers in the EV range, I've
decided on constructing a fusible link. Go two sizes smaller than your main
conductor, put a lug on one end to attach to the battery, and do a soldered
butt-splice to your main conductor, covered with a few layers of heat
shrink -- a fuse for 1/100th the price!

I decided on this approach because my batteries will be in three
strings, and you need protection for each string, lest the main conductor
connecting your strings together gets shorted in an accident or something.
I did not want to pay for three high-current fuses and holders.

He was a very inferior farmer when he first began, and he is now
fast rising from affluence to poverty. -- Mark Twain
Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op

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Re: [EVDL] Phys.org: Could hemp nanosheets topple graphene for making the ideal supercapacitor?

2014-08-14 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Ultracaps and drag racing comes up quite frequently. It's been tried and
it's not a good match. Dragsters need more power the the further down the
track they go. Ultracaps ability to deliver power drops the more you
discharge them due to their voltage dropping. (E = 0.5CV^2)

Essentially you run out of ooomph by the time you get to the end of the
track where you need it the most. So to compensate you have to oversize the
pack and due to their low energy density you end up at a disadvantage.

High power lithium cells have a flat discharge voltage, under heavy loads
it can even increase due to internal heating reducing the internal
resistance. Their internal resistance is also very competitive with
ultracaps so there is no advantage to using ultracaps, yet.

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

As hemp makes a comeback in the U.S. after a decades-long ban on its
cultivation, scientists are reporting that fibers from the plant can pack
as much energy and power as graphene, long-touted as the model material for
supercapacitors. They're presenting their research, which a Canadian
start-up company is working on scaling up, at the 248th National Meeting
Exposition of the American Chemical Society (ACS).

David Mitlin, Ph.D., explains that supercapacitors are energy storage
devices that have huge potential to transform the way future electronics
are powered. Unlike today's rechargeable batteries, which sip up energy
over several hours, supercapacitors can charge and discharge within
seconds. But they normally can't store nearly as much energy as batteries,
an important property known as energy density. One approach researchers are
taking to boost supercapacitors' energy density is to design better
electrodes. Mitlin's team has figured out how to make them from certain
hemp fibers—and they can hold as much energy as the current top contender:
graphene.

http://phys.org/news/2014-08-hemp-nanosheets-topple-graphene-ideal.html

The full article gives energy density at 12 Wh / kg, which, if I have my
figures right, is an order of magnitude shy of CALB and similar popular BEV
batteries. Still, I imagine that's more than enough for a quarter mile, and
I can't imagine what supercapacitor discharge rates will mean for the drag
racing crowd. A supercapacitor-powered dragster could well mark the end of
hydrocarbon-based racing.

I can also imagine hybrid battery / supercapacitor systems, if these
become affordable, even if energy density doesn't significantly improve.
Use a supercapacitor with just enough Wh to go all-out for a dozen seconds
to power the motor and to accept regen charge, and have a battery just
barely capable of continuous discharge at freeway speeds uphill charging
the supercapacitor. The battery can be optimized for capacity and density
(and price) without worry about discharge rates. The supercapacitor is
already optimized for discharge; it just needs to be big enough to hold
enough to get up to speed.

Cheers,

b
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Re: [EVDL] Nightmare at the CA DMV

2014-07-30 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

I also had to take my EV to the referee. He looked under the hood and
scratched his head, made a phone-call to someone and essentially said he
had no idea what he was looking at but it sure doesn't have an engine. Then
he typed something into a computer and that was it.

On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

As many of you know I have been involved in EV's since the late 90's
repairing, reviving or building EV's of many sorts. It turns out that my
Aspire EV was registered by some numskull at the DMV as a hybrid.
Currently I'm in Class AE Fuel Q. I guess the clerk got frustrated. Back
13 years I watched as 3 or 4 clerks and the manager were trying to figure
out how to register my conversion. http://www.evalbum.com/418 One of
them decided Hybrid was a good alternative as the computer allowed this
choice and I wouldn't recieve smog notices. It didn't allow Electric as
fuel. I never recieved smog notices but curiously I couldn't get the white
carpool stickers but it didn't matter as my range was down after
rearranging the battery pack and couldn't go far enough to use it. Jump 13
years. Yesterday the same thing happened when I tried to fix their
mistake(because someone wanted to buy it and use it to get PGE special
electric rate. Which is
not allowed anyway I found out so no sale) which is now my problem.
After spending hours there and a tow charge I was told I had to take the
car to the Referee at Bureau of Automotive Repair. I called.they don't
seem to want to take it. So I called Sacramento for advice. I got a nice
guy named Ken who said he would research it. So for now my BEV is a Hybrid
and nobody can do anything about it even though the local DMV office staff
inspected it agree it is a BEV. The computer says everyone is wrong and
it(based on the VIN) is a hybrid. MAN! Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] BMW 24kw DC fast charger

2014-07-29 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

$0.27/W is cheap for power electronics, they are practically giving it
away. It also comes in a NEMA 54 enclosure, has 1772 interface, is probably
isolated and UL listed so comparing it to PFC75 ($0.25W) is not really fair.

The 24kW may come from a desire to stay below the demand charge that
usually pop up somewhere around there. They may also be targeting home and
small business customers who don't have 50kW to spare. It's definitely an
unfilled niche.

On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 5:31 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

At 6500 dollars cheap? I don't know. It weighs 100 pounds and doesn't
seem to be transportable. A PFC 75 is less money but might only eek out 12
to 15 or so KW but only weighs 33 pounds. Much more transportable and
works with a J1772 plug. However the BMW is CCS. More confusion. If
someone more versed could comment I'd like some other view on this
technology which is about half as powerful as Chademo but seems to be twice
as powerful as J1772 or am I not doing my math correctly? Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: batteries

2014-07-25 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

http://www.a123systems.com/


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Ben Apollonio via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Too bad A123 went under.  Their cells would have been PERFECT.

 You could consider the EnerDel high-power modules carried by evolve
 electrics (and possibly others, but I haven't seen them elsewhere).
  They're more expensive than CALB/Thundersky but better suited to your
 application.  32Ah/44V at 160A continuous, 480A for 10 seconds.

 http://www.enerdel.com/mp320-049-hc-bo-moxie-battery/
 http://evolveelectrics.com/power-modules/

 You might also try looking into Dow Kokam cells (www.kokam.com).  I'm not
 sure if they only sell to OEM's, but I think they sponsored John Wayland at
 one point.  Similar discharge rates to the enerdel.

 -Ben

 On Jul 24, 2014, at 10:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

  A while ago, I had done some back-of-the-envelope math that told me that
 I didn't need to worry much about batteries until the time came to actually
 pick which to buy. Now, thanks to y'all, I'm realizing that this may
 instead be a show-stopper.
 
  To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for
 not much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving
 experience of a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen
 miles and a traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas
 tank. The thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or
 more electric motors.
 
  My initial calculations were simply to divide system volts (144) by cell
 volts (3.2), and multiply that number (45) by unit Wh and price and weight
 and volume and the like. Almost all the options I looked at gave at least
 10 kWh for a couple-few grand at a weight less than the average American
 passenger, so I stopped worrying about it.
 
  But I now understand that many of those options would only be capable of
 putting out 10-15 kW -- an order of magnitude shy of what a pair of 9
 motors would be capable of. And what's the point of having electric motors
 as powerful as the combustion engine if the batteries make them act like a
 garage door opener?
 
  In the research I've done since then, it seems that the only ways to get
 to something capable of supplying the motors with all they can ask for is
 either to go with a full-sized battery pack, at much (*much!*) greater cost
 and weight and volume or to go some exotic homebrew route that'll likely
 cost at least as much, if not even more. In other words, lacking a
 relatively inexpensive small battery pack capable of high discharge,
 there's nothing to be saved by going the hybrid route. It'd still gain the
 extended range and increased performance, but there'd be none of my
 anticipated cost or space or weight savings -- quite the contrary.
 
  I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel...but it would completely change
 the dynamic of the project.
 
  So...any chance anybody can point me in the direction of a 150 - 200 kW
 capable battery with at least 7 kWh capacity (10+ kWh preferred) that
 wouldn't break either the bank or the suspension?
 
  I'm willing to put in the time assembling it from cells, but the only
 cells I've found so far that I've thought might be up to the task would set
 me back five figures, before any sort of management system or the hardware
 to package them or the rest. Indeed, these cells:
 
  http://www.quallion.com/new-pdf/QLI1250-18650.pdf
 
  have pretty much perfect specs but I wouldn't be surprised if enough of
 them cost as much as an entire Leaf
 
  Thanks,
 
  b
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Re: [EVDL] Batteries as thermoelectric generators

2014-06-05 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Interesting. It must be a pretty low discharge rate to offset the increase
in internal resistance.

Reminds me of this:
http://phys.org/news/2012-03-efficiency.html

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Here's an interesting idea (sorry for the long URL):

http://powerelectronics.com/blog/thermogalvanic-process-
converts-low-temp-waste-heat-electricity?NL=PET-01Issue=
PET-01_20140604_PET-01_786YM_RID=leeah...@earthlink.netYM_
MID=1469693sfvc4enews=42cl=article_1_b

Since the voltage of rechargeable batteries depends on temperature, the
new system combines the charging-discharging cycles of these batteries with
heating and cooling, so that the discharge voltage is higher than charge
voltage. The system can efficiently harness even relatively small
temperature differences, such as a 50 C difference.

Basically, they heat the battery, then charge it. The higher temperature
lowers the charge voltage. Then they cool the battery, and discharge it.
The lower temperature raises the discharge voltage. You get the same
amphours out that you put in; but since the voltage is higher, you get more
watts out than you put in! The extra energy came from the heat.

Since the battery isn't 100% efficient, it took a pretty large temperature
differential to make this work; 50 deg.C or more. When they measured the
amount of heat that was converted to electricity, it was at best only 5.7%
efficient. But, it's a start -- maybe it can be improved. :-)
--
I do not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into
momentum. -- Frances Willard
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 19, Issue 19

2014-05-14 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV

Because the resistance of copper changes 4% for every 10 degree change in
temperature.

Manganin, which shunts are made of, barely change at all. Typically it's
less than 0.05% in the normal temperature range and 0% around 30-40C.
Here's a graph http://images.elektroda.net/89_1304228034.png
Copper would be a vertical line on the same scale as that graph.

So if you want anything more than a rough indicator, a battery link is
woefully inadequate.

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jan Steinman via EV ev@lists.evdl.orgwrote:

From: Michael K Johnson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org

That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.

I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
would work?

My favourite shunt is the longest battery lead. :-) Why drop any more
voltage than you already are dropping?

But you need a system that can be calibrated. If your longest lead drops
at least 50 mV, you can put a trimpot across it to bring it down to exactly
50 mV. I've done this on two different house battery systems for campers,
and it worked well. I put an amp clamp meter on the cable, together with
a constant load (turning all the lights on in the camper works well), then
trimming the pot until the readings were the same.

Jan

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
On Tue May 13 21:11:33 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
Thanks, Denis.

It looks like a pretty simple display. I'm sorta hoping for something
with more numbers on it. There seem to be a number of units on eBay that
only go to 100 V and 30 A:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-in-1-Digital-Combo-Panel-Meter-DC100V30A-Volt-Amp-kWh-Watt-Working-Time-/181403417248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2hash=item2a3c7c7aa0_uhb=1

but I'm hoping for something more like this that will do 196V and up
to 500 A:
http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series

This unit could display volts, amps, and kWH simultaneously, but I
haven't found a supplier nor even a price!

I'm going to try one of these:

http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx

I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.

Try my Sensible Email package!
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
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Re: [EVDL] Do EVs make green sense?

Re: [EVDL] Electric motor breakthrough

Re: [EVDL] Products with temperature sensing in the AC plug?

[EVDL] Products with temperature sensing in the AC plug?

Re: [EVDL] Voltage spikes

Re: [EVDL] EVDL: Hydrogen - here we go again? (or maybe?)

Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

Re: [EVDL] Cut-EVSE-cord-vandalism (pull-out cord)

Re: [EVDL] French man electrocuted while trying to steal petrol from an EV> a burning smell was noticed

Re: [EVDL] OEM EV charging on 120V with no ground?

Re: [EVDL] Polarity Reversal (duh)

Re: [EVDL] Good data or bad? How do you know? Or is it the interpretation?

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to conventional batteries

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Is a piddling $8/mo Extra Electricity Worth a Tesla over an i3?

Re: [EVDL] Grid Solar kits?

Re: [EVDL] Police.cn warn of dangers long scarves e-mopeds don't mix

Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.

Re: [EVDL] Range vs Speed

Re: [EVDL] Dissimilar metals on Headyways?

[EVDL] Fwd: Gabrielsson Approval Items

Re: [EVDL] Gabrielsson Approval Items

Re: [EVDL] Vacuum Switch

Re: [EVDL] Ride an EV, Skip the Exercise?

Re: [EVDL] Stud type fuse block needed

Re: [EVDL] Stud type fuse block needed

Re: [EVDL] Phys.org: Could hemp nanosheets topple graphene for making the ideal supercapacitor?

Re: [EVDL] Nightmare at the CA DMV

Re: [EVDL] BMW 24kw DC fast charger

Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: batteries

Re: [EVDL] Batteries as thermoelectric generators

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 19, Issue 19

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