Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-26 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV
I got my cells from Cor for about 2 dollars a piece. Two strings of 20 is forty 
cells. 80 bucks. 36 for the BMS and 27 for the charger and my time and 
soldering/wires. Not much for a 5ah 60v pack. Since Covid I have plenty of 
time. Gotta get a hot glue gun. Turns out there is a reason they use the same 
diagram for my BMS for all the models.  Turns out to save money they used a 16 
and a five pin flat cable. I should have counted the pins and it would have 
made sense. I was over thinking it not knowing they used two cables to save 
money.  Probably have millions of 16 and 5 pin cables. Not many 21 pin 
connectors thus my confusion.  Duh.  Should have counted first and not just 
looked at the two cables thinking of some exotic connection. It will be a very 
simple construction. BTW the Daly company is very big. Plenty of YouTubers have 
explained the unit in it's different voltages. Very robust for the money.   
Lawrence Rhodes




Message: 4
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 15:26:05 -0400
From: "EVDL Administrator" 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike
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On 25 Jun 2020 at 16:35, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> So buyer beware. Documentation not included.

Yeah, that costs extra. 

If you want instructions for this cheap stuff, you buy the same cheap stuff 
from an importer  in the West.  If you've chosen well, the seller will have 
written up reasonably clear instructions.  He'll mark up the product to pay 
himself for his time.  Wouldn't you?

If you're REALLY lucky, maybe he'll even let you call or email with 
questions.  That might cost still more, heaven forbid.

Sometimes you can find somebody in a web forum who's figured one of these 
direct-from-the-sweatshop cheapies out.  The time to look for that is BEFORE 
you buy.  And then you may or may not be able to get the same gadget the 
online guy documented.  Turnover of these Chinese manufacturers can be 
quick, and the regularly re-engineer them to make them cheaper and more 
profitable to build.

All this messing around takes time.  How much is your time worth?  Did you 
save enough on the BMS's price to pay for that time?  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
    I am the one with no secrets. They [the Chinese government] have 
    secrets. It is only because they have secrets that they can imagine 
    everyone else having them too.

                                        -- Ai Weiwei
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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-25 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 I finally counted all the pins between the two connectors. 21 small Leeds. 
Since it is a 20 p device I now completely understand the unit. 20 red and one 
black. Daly is a big company but having separate cables for the same function 
is confusing. Lawrence Rhodes
 On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 11:00:37 AM PDT, paul dove 
 wrote:  
 
  Seems like all you need to know is polarity.
is it not marked positive and negative?



On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 11:36:05 AM CDT, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Here is the response from the seller on eBay. Confuses seller with 
manufacturer.  

hi sir, you bought 20s bms , it has two cable , you only as my board port to 
connect it,. for you said item # 113793800015 , i suggest you ask that seller 
how to wiring it , We only sell protection boards, as long as there is no 
problem with the wiring method, the product has no quality problems.

I suggest you ask a more professional friend to solve the problem for you.

you can take photo , i help you ask my supplier whether can use it.

so sorry again for you.
best regards

So buyer beware. Documentation not included. I suspect I can track down the 
proper wiring diagram. I saw the 12v 60 amp version controlling much larger 
cells. The Daly company seems to be a big producer.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-25 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 25 Jun 2020 at 16:35, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> So buyer beware. Documentation not included.

Yeah, that costs extra. 

If you want instructions for this cheap stuff, you buy the same cheap stuff 
from an importer  in the West.  If you've chosen well, the seller will have 
written up reasonably clear instructions.  He'll mark up the product to pay 
himself for his time.  Wouldn't you?

If you're REALLY lucky, maybe he'll even let you call or email with 
questions.  That might cost still more, heaven forbid.

Sometimes you can find somebody in a web forum who's figured one of these 
direct-from-the-sweatshop cheapies out.  The time to look for that is BEFORE 
you buy.  And then you may or may not be able to get the same gadget the 
online guy documented.  Turnover of these Chinese manufacturers can be 
quick, and the regularly re-engineer them to make them cheaper and more 
profitable to build.

All this messing around takes time.  How much is your time worth?  Did you 
save enough on the BMS's price to pay for that time?   

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 I am the one with no secrets. They [the Chinese government] have 
 secrets. It is only because they have secrets that they can imagine 
 everyone else having them too.

-- Ai Weiwei
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-25 Thread paul dove via EV
 Seems like all you need to know is polarity.
is it not marked positive and negative?



On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 11:36:05 AM CDT, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Here is the response from the seller on eBay. Confuses seller with 
manufacturer.  

hi sir, you bought 20s bms , it has two cable , you only as my board port to 
connect it,. for you said item # 113793800015 , i suggest you ask that seller 
how to wiring it , We only sell protection boards, as long as there is no 
problem with the wiring method, the product has no quality problems.

I suggest you ask a more professional friend to solve the problem for you.

you can take photo , i help you ask my supplier whether can use it.

so sorry again for you.
best regards

So buyer beware. Documentation not included. I suspect I can track down the 
proper wiring diagram. I saw the 12v 60 amp version controlling much larger 
cells. The Daly company seems to be a big producer.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-25 Thread Willie via EV




On 6/25/20 11:35 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

Here is the response from the seller on eBay. Confuses seller with manufacturer.

hi sir, you bought 20s bms , it has two cable , you only as my board port to 
connect it,. for you said item # 113793800015 , i suggest you ask that seller 
how to wiring it , We only sell protection boards, as long as there is no 
problem with the wiring method, the product has no quality problems.

I suggest you ask a more professional friend to solve the problem for you.

you can take photo , i help you ask my supplier whether can use it.

so sorry again for you.
best regards


China is dominating world commerce.  Those without chinese language 
skill are at a disadvantage.  OTOH, a market opportunity exists for 
those with China skill and want provide service for vetting and 
documenting chinese products.

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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-25 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Here is the response from the seller on eBay. Confuses seller with 
manufacturer.  

hi sir, you bought 20s bms , it has two cable , you only as my board port to 
connect it,. for you said item # 113793800015 , i suggest you ask that seller 
how to wiring it , We only sell protection boards, as long as there is no 
problem with the wiring method, the product has no quality problems.

I suggest you ask a more professional friend to solve the problem for you.

you can take photo , i help you ask my supplier whether can use it.

so sorry again for you.
best regards

So buyer beware. Documentation not included. I suspect I can track down the 
proper wiring diagram. I saw the 12v 60 amp version controlling much larger 
cells. The Daly company seems to be a big producer.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-23 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
>From my admittedly limited experience, most electronic devices you buy from 
Chinese sellers are cheap and poorly documented.  If you get instructions, 
they'll usually be in "Chinglish" and confusing at best.  

IMO, those gadgets are iffy enough for people who know what they're doing.  
I'm an electronics hacker, not an engineer.  I don't have the background to 
work safely with undocumented alien electronics.  

You can often get the same junk on Ebay and Amazon from US sellers who've 
written up better documentation.  (Or maybe they haven't.  Read the 
reviews.)  Some of them even test them to weed out the QC failures.  (Often 
with directly imported Chinese stuff, YOU are the QC.)

You pay more for the documented items, but maybe not more than you'd pay if 
you had to order one or five replacements after letting the smoke out.

As for me, I don't mess with assembling lithium batteries.  I don't trust 
myself with something that can burn my house down if I get it wrong. 
Instead, I buy my lithium batteries (what few I use) as complete configured 
units already assembled with BMS, from people and manufacturers who I'm 
prettty sure know what they're doing.  I try to maximize my chance at 
success by reading the online reviews and comments in places like Endless 
Sphere.  

That's what led me to Ping Battery several years ago.  They cost a lot more 
than doing it myself, or even the anonymous duct tape batteries on Ebay, but 
when they arrived I plugged in the BMSes (following the clear instructions), 
charged them, and put them to work.  The batteries have held up well, though 
the chargers haven't. 

As always, YMMV.  Good luck.  Don't charge it in the house or garage.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 Things I once thought were funny are scary now. I often feel like 
 a resident of Pompeii who has been asked for some humorous comments 
 on lava. 

-- Tom Lehrer
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-23 Thread Alan Arrison via EV
I'd be wary of a cheap BMS even *with* a wiring diagram. Without one? 
Contact the seller.


On 6/23/2020 7:39 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

  The BMS and Charger came the other day way earlier than promised. Both packages came 
from an address no more than 10 miles from my housemaybe there are stockpiles in 
the US? But why would they say from China using speed pack.  Any way no instructions 
came with the package. The BMS looks professionally manufactured. Has a 5 and 20 pin 
connector. It is the size of a small smart phone and very heavy. I have no idea how to 
hook up the negative. The diagram(on ebay) assumes a lot of knowledge I don't have.  I 
am not even sure I can safely start this project.  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20S-60V-BMS-30A-40A-50A-60A-Lifepo4-Battery-BMS-W-Balance-Waterproof-Protection/113793800015?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT=413965228886&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 If this is a common BMS with maybe a video somewhere that might help me. Maybe someone 
here has used this model.  About all I know is the 20 pins go on each parallel 
connection of which there will be 20. The P will be two. Plenty for a small battery for 
a bicycle. But documentation in the form of diagrams is lacking.  But for the money if 
I can figure it out not bad.  Lawrence Rhodes

 On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 7:42:45 PM PDT, Lawrence Rhodes 
 wrote:
  
  Below is my order and a few bucks for buyer protection. This will be an experiment and learning experience. Lawrence Rhodes


Order details
Sales order

Sold by zhan-lingj ( 383 ) Order number: ???Processed by PayPal

Estimated delivery Monday, Jun 29, 2020 - Friday, Aug 21,2020

60V/73V 5A Charger for 60V (20S ) LiFePO4 BatteryPack/E-BIKE.AC110V 73V OUTPUT

Item price    USD25.95

Quantity  1

Item number   173860920788

Shipping service    EconomyShipping from outside US

Sales order

Sold by elec-module58 ( 14539 ) Order number: ?Processed by PayPal

Estimated delivery Monday, Jun 29, 2020 - Wednesday, Jul 22,2020

20S 60V 60A Lifepo4 Battery BMS W/Balance WaterproofProtection

Item price    USD36.98

Quantity  1

Item number   113793800015

Shipping service    StandardSpeedPAK from China/Hong Kong/Taiwan

Sales order

Sold by squaretradeus ( 553444 ) Order number:24-05211-07170 Processed by PayPal

   
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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-23 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 The BMS and Charger came the other day way earlier than promised. Both 
packages came from an address no more than 10 miles from my housemaybe 
there are stockpiles in the US? But why would they say from China using speed 
pack.  Any way no instructions came with the package. The BMS looks 
professionally manufactured. Has a 5 and 20 pin connector. It is the size of a 
small smart phone and very heavy. I have no idea how to hook up the negative. 
The diagram(on ebay) assumes a lot of knowledge I don't have.  I am not even 
sure I can safely start this project.  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20S-60V-BMS-30A-40A-50A-60A-Lifepo4-Battery-BMS-W-Balance-Waterproof-Protection/113793800015?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT=413965228886&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 If this is a common BMS with maybe a video somewhere that might help me. Maybe 
someone here has used this model.  About all I know is the 20 pins go on each 
parallel connection of which there will be 20. The P will be two. Plenty for a 
small battery for a bicycle. But documentation in the form of diagrams is 
lacking.  But for the money if I can figure it out not bad.  Lawrence Rhodes

On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 7:42:45 PM PDT, Lawrence Rhodes 
 wrote:  
 
 Below is my order and a few bucks for buyer protection. This will be an 
experiment and learning experience. Lawrence Rhodes

Order details
Sales order

Sold by zhan-lingj ( 383 ) Order number: ???Processed by PayPal

Estimated delivery Monday, Jun 29, 2020 - Friday, Aug 21,2020

60V/73V 5A Charger for 60V (20S ) LiFePO4 BatteryPack/E-BIKE.AC110V 73V OUTPUT

Item price    USD25.95

Quantity  1

Item number   173860920788

Shipping service    EconomyShipping from outside US

Sales order

Sold by elec-module58 ( 14539 ) Order number: ?Processed by PayPal

Estimated delivery Monday, Jun 29, 2020 - Wednesday, Jul 22,2020

20S 60V 60A Lifepo4 Battery BMS W/Balance WaterproofProtection

Item price    USD36.98

Quantity  1

Item number   113793800015

Shipping service    StandardSpeedPAK from China/Hong Kong/Taiwan

Sales order

Sold by squaretradeus ( 553444 ) Order number:24-05211-07170 Processed by PayPal

  
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Re: [EVDL] 20s A123 battery pack for ebike

2020-06-11 Thread Bill Dube via EV

Sounds like a heck of a deal. Please keep us informed!

Bill D.

On 6/11/2020 2:42 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

Below is my order and a few bucks for buyer protection. This will be an 
experiment and learning experience. Lawrence Rhodes

Order details
Sales order

Sold by zhan-lingj ( 383 ) Order number: ???Processed by PayPal

Estimated delivery Monday, Jun 29, 2020 - Friday, Aug 21,2020

60V/73V 5A Charger for 60V (20S ) LiFePO4 BatteryPack/E-BIKE.AC110V 73V OUTPUT

Item price    USD25.95

Quantity  1

Item number   173860920788

Shipping service    EconomyShipping from outside US

Sales order

Sold by elec-module58 ( 14539 ) Order number: ?Processed by PayPal

Estimated delivery Monday, Jun 29, 2020 - Wednesday, Jul 22,2020

20S 60V 60A Lifepo4 Battery BMS W/Balance WaterproofProtection

Item price    USD36.98

Quantity  1

Item number   113793800015

Shipping service    StandardSpeedPAK from China/Hong Kong/Taiwan

Sales order

Sold by squaretradeus ( 553444 ) Order number:24-05211-07170 Processed by PayPal

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