Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Le 11/04/2016 14:35, Per Jessen a écrit : jdd wrote: Le 11/04/2016 13:51, Per Jessen a écrit : Once things are in production, they live on for much, much longer. Only just this weekend, I was finally able to retire an ancient box still running SuSE Linux 8.2. online? Yes, it was in fact connected to the internet, but only for news. (port 119). scary :-)) jdd ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Per Jessen wrote: > Forgot a couple of things: > > - prtscr doesn't work out of the box > - the bottom menu bar crashes/disappears > - the desktop background goes black (might be related) The latter two are due to bug#957797. A week ago, I swapped the graphics card, which means nouveau no longer causes plasmashell to crash, which in turn means the memory leak kicks in instead :-) -- Posted with knode 4.14 from openSUSE Leap42.1 office34: Cyrix 486DX2/66MHz, 4096Mb RAM, #9 GXE ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Marcus Meissner wrote: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 02:24:06PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote: >> Per Jessen wrote: >> >> > Ruediger Meier wrote: >> > >> >> Do you have some kind of check list what are the most annoying issues >> >> in 42.1 for you? >> > >> > Hi Rudi >> > >> > - lack of dolphin thumbnails, tooltips (pdf, libreoffice) >> > - plasmashell crashes frequently >> > - screen locker crashes (apparently won't be fixed until 422) >> > - alt-tab windows switching is slow/unresponsive. >> >> Forgot a couple of things: >> >> - prtscr doesn't work out of the box >> - the bottom menu bar crashes/disappears >> - the desktop background goes black (might be related) > > If there are no bugs open yet for Leap, they should be opened. > > This list is not the correct one for Leap bugs ;) Yup, they're open - bug#957797 - plasmashell killed by oom bug#973747 - prtScr doesn't work bug#965510 - [nouveau] PFIFO CACHE_ERROR (why plasmashell crashes) bug#958290 - dolphin tooltips/preview - missing preview? The one about "alt-tab windows switching is slow/unresponsive." is difficult to really report much about. Right now it works fine. The screen locker issue I have so far only seen once. -- Posted with knode 4.14 from openSUSE Leap42.1 office34: Cyrix 486DX2/66MHz, 4096Mb RAM, #9 GXE ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
jdd wrote: > Le 11/04/2016 13:51, Per Jessen a écrit : > >> Once things are in production, they live on for much, much longer. Only >> just this weekend, I was finally able to retire an ancient box still >> running SuSE Linux 8.2. >> >> > online? Yes, it was in fact connected to the internet, but only for news. (port 119). -- Posted with knode 4.14 from openSUSE Leap42.1 office34: Cyrix 486DX2/66MHz, 4096Mb RAM, #9 GXE ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 02:24:06PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote: > Per Jessen wrote: > > > Ruediger Meier wrote: > > > >> Do you have some kind of check list what are the most annoying issues > >> in 42.1 for you? > > > > Hi Rudi > > > > - lack of dolphin thumbnails, tooltips (pdf, libreoffice) > > - plasmashell crashes frequently > > - screen locker crashes (apparently won't be fixed until 422) > > - alt-tab windows switching is slow/unresponsive. > > Forgot a couple of things: > > - prtscr doesn't work out of the box > - the bottom menu bar crashes/disappears > - the desktop background goes black (might be related) If there are no bugs open yet for Leap, they should be opened. This list is not the correct one for Leap bugs ;) Ciao, Marcus ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Per Jessen wrote: > Ruediger Meier wrote: > >> Do you have some kind of check list what are the most annoying issues >> in 42.1 for you? > > Hi Rudi > > - lack of dolphin thumbnails, tooltips (pdf, libreoffice) > - plasmashell crashes frequently > - screen locker crashes (apparently won't be fixed until 422) > - alt-tab windows switching is slow/unresponsive. Forgot a couple of things: - prtscr doesn't work out of the box - the bottom menu bar crashes/disappears - the desktop background goes black (might be related) /Per -- Posted with knode 4.14 from openSUSE Leap42.1 office34: Cyrix 486DX2/66MHz, 4096Mb RAM, #9 GXE ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 02:05:23PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote: > Michal Kubecek wrote: > >Do you have a link providing some details? It might shed some light into > >bsc#970375 which I'm completely clueless about so far. > > I opened this about a year ago: > > https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=915963 > > Basically, because xen itself went 64bit only, we also stopped > building 32-bit xen installation systems. It doesn't sound like it > would be related, but I guess you never know. I see. Indeed, not really related to boot failure of i586 kernel-xen. Thanks anyway. Michal ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Le 11/04/2016 13:51, Per Jessen a écrit : Once things are in production, they live on for much, much longer. Only just this weekend, I was finally able to retire an ancient box still running SuSE Linux 8.2. online? jdd ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Michal Kubecek wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 01:43:16PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote: Not forgetting, if you want to install a 32bit 13.2 xen pvm guest, I think it's only possible by installing 13.1 and then upgrading. Do you have a link providing some details? It might shed some light into bsc#970375 which I'm completely clueless about so far. Hi Michal I opened this about a year ago: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=915963 Basically, because xen itself went 64bit only, we also stopped building 32-bit xen installation systems. It doesn't sound like it would be related, but I guess you never know. /Per ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 01:43:16PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote: > Not forgetting, if you want to install a 32bit 13.2 xen pvm guest, I > think it's only possible by installing 13.1 and then upgrading. Do you have a link providing some details? It might shed some light into bsc#970375 which I'm completely clueless about so far. Michal Kubeček ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
jdd wrote: > Le 11/04/2016 10:40, Axel Braun a écrit : > >> Personally I'm happy with using 13.1 on older hardware, but under the >> above light, maybe it is worth to discuss this again? >> > > may be it's better to support more 13.1? Given the limited resources, I think that is the right answer, no matter how much I would like to see 13.2 live a long life. > > *every* new release is considered bad and the previous better... Um, 13.2 was/is definitely better than 13.1, the same goes for 12.3 > 12.2 > 12.1. In my opinion/experience. > If one needs really stability for large desktop number, may be it > should go to SLED. > > I'm pretty sure than Leap will be very stable for a very long time. > Now it's 6 month old and the initial problems should have stopped. They _should_ have, but they haven't. In my opinion, Leap421 is not in a state yet where it can be given to grandmum and grandson. (not to mention regular office staff). > Of course it's only my feeling. 13.1 or 13.2 are good only for one > year from now on. I personally expect to move my 13.1 server to Leap > this summer Once things are in production, they live on for much, much longer. Only just this weekend, I was finally able to retire an ancient box still running SuSE Linux 8.2. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Axel Braun wrote: > Hello Per, > >> Gesendet: Montag, 11. April 2016 um 08:00 Uhr >> Von: "Per Jessen" >> An: evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org >> Betreff: Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2 >> >> Ruediger Meier wrote: >> >> > On Sunday 10 April 2016, Per Jessen wrote: >> >> jdd wrote: >> >> > Le 10/04/2016 14:39, reinhard hennig a écrit : >> >> >> Dear Members, >> >> >> >> >> >> will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for >> >> >> OpenSuSE 13.2? We are just about to switch to it (from OS 12.2) >> >> >> and would like to benefit from expanded LTS. We are using Linux >> >> >> on 12.000 PC´s. >> >> >> >> >> >> B.R. >> >> > >> >> > if you don't have major reason to use 13.2, prefere 13.1 >> >> > (present evergreen) or Leap 42.1 (extended support probable, >> >> > upgrade easy) >> >> >> >> For a production environment, I would definitely not recommend >> >> Leap421. >> > >> > Do you have some kind of check list what are the most annoying >> > issues in 42.1 for you? >> >> Hi Rudi >> >> - lack of dolphin thumbnails, tooltips (pdf, libreoffice) >> - plasmashell crashes frequently >> - screen locker crashes (apparently won't be fixed until 422) >> - alt-tab windows switching is slow/unresponsive. > > Hm, I use Leap every day on my workhorse (ThinkPad T520), but did not > come around any of the issues you mentioned so far. Not even the missing thumbnails and tooltips? > But there are others that make life uneasy (e.g. multi-monitor > presentations...), I haven't even dared to start looking at using multiple monitors :-) >> For a server, I might consider going with Leap421, but the steady >> stream of updates makes me a little uneasy. Of course, it's also a >> good thing, it just seems to be a little too much. > > Many of the updates relate to KDE, so not really something you take > care about on a test-only server You're probably right, I haven't looked at what is being updated, just there were so many. >> >> I would also like to see 13.2 supported long-term, it's a very >> >> solid release. > > I feel the community is in a difficult position here: The commitment > is to support 13.1 long-term, which is, by the way, a solid release as > well. Agreed. > On the other hand, 13.2 is the last 32bit release, which brings > it into a special position. Not forgetting, if you want to install a 32bit 13.2 xen pvm guest, I think it's only possible by installing 13.1 and then upgrading. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:40:57AM +0200, Axel Braun wrote: > > > On Sunday 10 April 2016, Per Jessen wrote: > > > >> I would also like to see 13.2 supported long-term, it's a very solid > > >> release. > > I feel the community is in a difficult position here: The commitment > is to support 13.1 long-term, which is, by the way, a solid release as > well. On the other hand, 13.2 is the last 32bit release, which brings > it into a special position. > > Personally I'm happy with using 13.1 on older hardware, but under the > above light, maybe it is worth to discuss this again? I don't like the idea of switching Evergreen support from 13.1 to 13.2 for at least two reasons: 1. Evergreen support for 13.1 was announced quite long in advance (and much longer than expected, actually). There are users who kept 13.1 on their machines exactly for this reason and didn't upgrade them to 13.2 (OK, in my case, there was also the nasty bug with keyboard mapping on VT which I considered a blocker). 2. openSUSE 13.2 comes with a 3.16 kernel which is backed neither by an upstream stable-3.y branch nor by a SLE kernel. Responsible maintenance of this kernel with resources available for Evergreen project doesn't seem feasible to me. Other options, i.e. switching to e.g. 3.12 (evergreen 13.1 / SLE12-SP1), 3.18 (upstream by Sasha Levin), 4.1 (Leap 42.1) or 4.4 (Leap 42.2 / SLE12-SP2), have their own severe drawbacks. My plans are to do my best to help keep Evergreen 13.1 going until at least half of 2017, then switch to Leap 42.2 (hoping QTBUG-49410 is fixed by then). Next steps will depend on what the 42.1 -> 42.2 transition turns out to look like (and if the idea of Leap as a long term support distribution works the way I hoped it would). Michal Kubeček ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Le 11/04/2016 10:40, Axel Braun a écrit : Personally I'm happy with using 13.1 on older hardware, but under the above light, maybe it is worth to discuss this again? may be it's better to support more 13.1? *every* new release is considered bad and the previous better... If one needs really stability for large desktop number, may be it should go to SLED. I'm pretty sure than Leap will be very stable for a very long time. Now it's 6 month old and the initial problems should have stopped. Of course it's only my feeling. 13.1 or 13.2 are good only for one year from now on. I personally expect to move my 13.1 server to Leap this summer jdd ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Hello Per, > Gesendet: Montag, 11. April 2016 um 08:00 Uhr > Von: "Per Jessen" > An: evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org > Betreff: Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2 > > Ruediger Meier wrote: > > > On Sunday 10 April 2016, Per Jessen wrote: > >> jdd wrote: > >> > Le 10/04/2016 14:39, reinhard hennig a écrit : > >> >> Dear Members, > >> >> > >> >> will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for OpenSuSE > >> >> 13.2? We are just about to switch to it (from OS 12.2) and would > >> >> like to benefit from expanded LTS. We are using Linux on 12.000 > >> >> PC´s. > >> >> > >> >> B.R. > >> > > >> > if you don't have major reason to use 13.2, prefere 13.1 (present > >> > evergreen) or Leap 42.1 (extended support probable, upgrade easy) > >> > >> For a production environment, I would definitely not recommend > >> Leap421. > > > > Do you have some kind of check list what are the most annoying issues > > in 42.1 for you? > > Hi Rudi > > - lack of dolphin thumbnails, tooltips (pdf, libreoffice) > - plasmashell crashes frequently > - screen locker crashes (apparently won't be fixed until 422) > - alt-tab windows switching is slow/unresponsive. Hm, I use Leap every day on my workhorse (ThinkPad T520), but did not come around any of the issues you mentioned so far. But there are others that make life uneasy (e.g. multi-monitor presentations...), but no showstoppers so far. > For a server, I might consider going with Leap421, but the steady stream > of updates makes me a little uneasy. Of course, it's also a good > thing, it just seems to be a little too much. Many of the updates relate to KDE, so not really something you take care about on a test-only server > >> I would also like to see 13.2 supported long-term, it's a very solid > >> release. I feel the community is in a difficult position here: The commitment is to support 13.1 long-term, which is, by the way, a solid release as well. On the other hand, 13.2 is the last 32bit release, which brings it into a special position. Personally I'm happy with using 13.1 on older hardware, but under the above light, maybe it is worth to discuss this again? Best regards Axel ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Ruediger Meier wrote: > On Sunday 10 April 2016, Per Jessen wrote: >> jdd wrote: >> > Le 10/04/2016 14:39, reinhard hennig a écrit : >> >> Dear Members, >> >> >> >> will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for OpenSuSE >> >> 13.2? We are just about to switch to it (from OS 12.2) and would >> >> like to benefit from expanded LTS. We are using Linux on 12.000 >> >> PC´s. >> >> >> >> B.R. >> > >> > if you don't have major reason to use 13.2, prefere 13.1 (present >> > evergreen) or Leap 42.1 (extended support probable, upgrade easy) >> >> For a production environment, I would definitely not recommend >> Leap421. > > Do you have some kind of check list what are the most annoying issues > in 42.1 for you? Hi Rudi - lack of dolphin thumbnails, tooltips (pdf, libreoffice) - plasmashell crashes frequently - screen locker crashes (apparently won't be fixed until 422) - alt-tab windows switching is slow/unresponsive. For a server, I might consider going with Leap421, but the steady stream of updates makes me a little uneasy. Of course, it's also a good thing, it just seems to be a little too much. >> I would also like to see 13.2 supported long-term, it's a very solid >> release. > > What about fixing 42.1 via online update. Shouldn't the most annoying > things already fixed? I run a test desktop machine, it's being updated weekly, I think. I try to do as much work as possible, to find more bugs, but I only manage maybe an hour per day. It's really just my gut feeling, but for my office environment, I'm sticking to 13.2 for a while yet. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 02:39:38PM +0200, reinhard hennig wrote: > will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for OpenSuSE > 13.2? Definitely possible but highly unlikely. Providing community support for two versions so close to each other would be wasting resources which are scarce as it is. Michal Kubeček ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
jdd composed on 2016-04-10 19:07 (UTC+0200): reinhard hennig composed: will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for OpenSuSE 13.2? We are just about to switch to it (from OS 12.2) and would like to benefit from expanded LTS. We are using Linux on 12.000 PC´s. if you don't have major reason to use 13.2, prefere 13.1 (present evergreen) or Leap 42.1 (extended support probable, upgrade easy) Likely among the 12,000 are 32 bit machines preventing use of 42.1. 13.1 is forecast to remain supported only for a matter of months. For a reasonable support life to justify a switch, Debian 8 or some *buntu release are probably their only options, unless replacing otherwise perfectly useful 32 bit machines, or 13.2 life is extended, or 42.1 is extended to 32 bit. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
On Sunday 10 April 2016, Per Jessen wrote: > jdd wrote: > > Le 10/04/2016 14:39, reinhard hennig a écrit : > >> Dear Members, > >> > >> will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for OpenSuSE > >> 13.2? We are just about to switch to it (from OS 12.2) and would > >> like to benefit from expanded LTS. We are using Linux on 12.000 > >> PC´s. > >> > >> B.R. > > > > if you don't have major reason to use 13.2, prefere 13.1 (present > > evergreen) or Leap 42.1 (extended support probable, upgrade easy) > > For a production environment, I would definitely not recommend > Leap421. Do you have some kind of check list what are the most annoying issues in 42.1 for you? > I would also like to see 13.2 supported long-term, it's a very solid > release. What about fixing 42.1 via online update. Shouldn't the most annoying things already fixed? cu, Rudi ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
jdd wrote: > Le 10/04/2016 14:39, reinhard hennig a écrit : >> Dear Members, >> >> will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for OpenSuSE >> 13.2? We are just about to switch to it (from OS 12.2) and would like >> to benefit from expanded LTS. We are using Linux on 12.000 PC´s. >> >> B.R. > > if you don't have major reason to use 13.2, prefere 13.1 (present > evergreen) or Leap 42.1 (extended support probable, upgrade easy) For a production environment, I would definitely not recommend Leap421. I would also like to see 13.2 supported long-term, it's a very solid release. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
Re: [Evergreen] Expanded Support for OpenSuSE 13.2
Le 10/04/2016 14:39, reinhard hennig a écrit : Dear Members, will it be possible to provide an evergreen project for OpenSuSE 13.2? We are just about to switch to it (from OS 12.2) and would like to benefit from expanded LTS. We are using Linux on 12.000 PC´s. B.R. if you don't have major reason to use 13.2, prefere 13.1 (present evergreen) or Leap 42.1 (extended support probable, upgrade easy) jdd ___ Evergreen mailing list Evergreen@lists.rosenauer.org http://lists.rosenauer.org/mailman/listinfo/evergreen
