Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Craig, I will comment your post asap. But I have to go (busy day). Have a nice day, Bruno On 07 Sep 2011, at 22:42, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 7, 10:36 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Sep 2011, at 22:30, Craig Weinberg wrote: What accounts for substitution level? It is the level wh

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 07 Sep 2011, at 21:04, meekerdb wrote: On 9/7/2011 7:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: That seems to me to be a gratuitous affirmation. Even today computers inherit from a long history, and they evolve quickly (with or despite humans, that is not entirely clear: today the humans do not want

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 07 Sep 2011, at 20:39, meekerdb wrote: On 9/7/2011 7:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But what is the threshold at which a reconstituted person feels anything at all? It does not exist. The person always feel something. I guess you ask what is the threshold for such machine to manifest genui

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:14 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >>When neuroscientists consider >> consciousness at all they consider the so-called neural correlates of >> consciousness: processes A, B, C, D in the brain are associated with >> experiences E, F, G, H. Processes A, B, C, D never involve anyt

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sep 7, 10:36 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 06 Sep 2011, at 22:30, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > >>> What accounts for substitution level? > > >> It is the level where your local constituants can be replaced by > >> digital device without changing your private experience. > > > That doesn't account

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread meekerdb
On 9/7/2011 9:24 AM, John Mikes wrote: Interesting discourse, indeed. Brent, I would add to: /*"usually believers cannot say what evidence they would accept that this belief of theirs is wrong."*/ *//* the *_scientific BELIEF _(sic!) which is* also a belief, based on prerequisite e

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread meekerdb
On 9/7/2011 7:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: That seems to me to be a gratuitous affirmation. Even today computers inherit from a long history, and they evolve quickly (with or despite humans, that is not entirely clear: today the humans do not want intelligent machines. I am not sure they even wan

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread meekerdb
On 9/7/2011 7:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But what is the threshold at which a reconstituted person feels anything at all? It does not exist. The person always feel something. I guess you ask what is the threshold for such machine to manifest genuinely the phenomenon of feeling something? Her

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread meekerdb
On 9/7/2011 6:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 6, 10:10 pm, meekerdb wrote: On 9/6/2011 5:42 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: If all bodies are computations, then what's the difference? You're just being obtuse. All bodies are composed of atoms, so what's the difference between them. No, I'm

Re: Realism, nominalism and comp

2011-09-07 Thread meekerdb
On 9/7/2011 4:47 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Does the existence of said universals act as a guarantor of the definiteness of the properties of the universals? As I see it, existence per say is neutral, it is merely the necessary possibility to be. ?? "necessary possibility" = necessity ??

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread John Mikes
Interesting discourse, indeed. Brent, I would add to: *"usually believers cannot say what evidence they would accept that this belief of theirs is wrong."* ** the *scientific BELIEF (sic!) which is* also a belief, based on prerequisite evidences BELIEVED to be TRUE. Those precurso

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sep 7, 2:25 am, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:11 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> Many discoveries have of course been made in neuroscience in the past > >> hundred years, eg. mapping brain function and working out its > >> neuropharmacology, but all these discoveries ar

Re: bruno list

2011-09-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sep 6, 10:10 pm, meekerdb wrote: > On 9/6/2011 5:42 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > If all bodies are computations, then what's the difference? > > You're just being obtuse.  All bodies are composed of atoms, so what's the > difference > between them. No, I'm being facetious. I'm not the one

Re: Realism, nominalism and comp

2011-09-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 06 Sep 2011, at 21:23, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Let me try it this way. Could we say that universals exist already in the 3d person view and they are independent from the 1st person view? I think we can say that. With the 'modern logic' approach we can bypass the middle-age "problem of

Re: Realism, nominalism and comp

2011-09-07 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/6/2011 3:23 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Let me try it this way. Could we say that universals exist already in the 3d person view and they are independent from the 1st person view? Evgenii On 06.09.2011 09:00 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 05 Sep 2011, at 21:02, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: