Re: Bruno List continued

2011-09-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Sep 2011, at 17:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 28, 10:26 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 22:35, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 27, 9:20 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: N. Millions of neurons fire simultaneously in separate regions

Re: Why UDA proves nothing

2011-09-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Sep 2011, at 15:53, Pierz wrote: At what point does mathematical truth stop? It seems to be the existence of some would imply the existence of all. Like I said, I need to let this marinate in my consciousness a while. I agree that all mathematical constructs must have the same kind

Re: Why UDA proves nothing

2011-09-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Sep 2011, at 04:11, Pierz wrote: Not at all. That would be a physicalist revisionist definition of numbers. You need to instantiate 17, in some way, to talk about 17, but 17 itself does not need instantiation. With or without any physical universe, 17 remain a prime number. With or

Re: Logics

2011-09-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Sep 2011, at 16:44, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/27/2011 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 13:49, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/26/2011 7:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote: snip For well-defined propositions regarding the numbers I think the values are confined to true or

Re: Why UDA proves nothing

2011-09-29 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/28/2011 10:11 PM, Pierz wrote: Not at all. That would be a physicalist revisionist definition of numbers. You need to instantiate 17, in some way, to talk about 17, but 17 itself does not need instantiation. With or without any physical universe, 17 remain a prime number. With or

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sep 29, 3:21 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 28 Sep 2011, at 17:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 28, 10:26 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 22:35, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 27, 9:20 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-09-29 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If it takes the brain 100 ms to compute a moment of awareness, then you can know you were not created 1 microsecond ago. Suppose your brain paused for 1 us every 99 ms. To an external observer you would be functioning

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-09-29 Thread Jason Resch
On Sep 29, 2011, at 8:12 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If it takes the brain 100 ms to compute a moment of awareness, then you can know you were not created 1 microsecond ago. Suppose your

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-09-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Sep 2011, at 14:36, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 29, 3:21 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 28 Sep 2011, at 17:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 28, 10:26 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 22:35, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sep 27, 9:20

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-09-29 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:45 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: The neural processes and the thoughts are different views of the same thing. In the case of voluntarily imagining something, it is the subjective content of the experiences being imagined which makes sense and the

Existence and Properties

2011-09-29 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/29/2011 4:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Sep 2011, at 16:44, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/27/2011 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 13:49, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/26/2011 7:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote: snip For well-defined propositions regarding the numbers I

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-09-29 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/29/2011 10:36 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/29/2011 4:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Sep 2011, at 16:44, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/27/2011 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 13:49, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/26/2011 7:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote: snip For

Re: Why UDA proves nothing

2011-09-29 Thread meekerdb
On 9/29/2011 12:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: OK. But this is non communicable by (sound) machines. In fact in the ethics of the ideally correct machine, asserting moral principle is immoral. We can only encourage people to understand or discover this by themselves. Bruno Several times you

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-09-29 Thread meekerdb
On 9/29/2011 6:12 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Jason Reschjasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If it takes the brain 100 ms to compute a moment of awareness, then you can know you were not created 1 microsecond ago. Suppose your brain paused for 1 us every 99 ms. To

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-09-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Sep 2011, at 19:24, meekerdb wrote: On 9/29/2011 6:12 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Jason Reschjasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If it takes the brain 100 ms to compute a moment of awareness, then you can know you were not created 1 microsecond ago.

Re: Why UDA proves nothing

2011-09-29 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Sep 2011, at 19:09, meekerdb wrote: On 9/29/2011 12:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: OK. But this is non communicable by (sound) machines. In fact in the ethics of the ideally correct machine, asserting moral principle is immoral. We can only encourage people to understand or discover

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

2011-09-29 Thread meekerdb
On 9/29/2011 11:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Sep 2011, at 19:24, meekerdb wrote: On 9/29/2011 6:12 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Jason Reschjasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If it takes the brain 100 ms to compute a moment of awareness, then you can know

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sep 29, 10:29 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I don't feel this very compelling. You have to assume some primitive matter, and notion of localization.   Why? I think you only have to assume the appearance of matter and localization, which we do already. This is the kind of

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sep 29, 10:31 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: There *is* a strictly neurological reason for the 3-P observable behaviour. If we limit ourselves to talking about that, do you agree? I would say no, because I would not describe something like 'gambling' as strictly

Re: Bruno List continued

2011-09-29 Thread Jason Resch
Craig, do the neurons violate the conservation of energy and momentum? And if not, then how can they have any unexpected effects? Jason On Sep 29, 2011, at 6:43 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 29, 10:31 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: There