Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 19-juil.-12, à 15:56, R AM a écrit : On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Le 18-juil.-12, à 15:28, R AM a écrit : On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I gave a definition of compatibilist free-will which is not

Re: Unto Others (very interesting)

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 19-juil.-12, à 06:47, meekerdb a écrit : This may be of interest to those recently discussing free-riders. Brent Original Message Unto Others BY MICHAEL SHERMER It is the oldest and most universally recognized moral principle that was codified over two millennia

Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 19-juil.-12, à 18:00, meekerdb a écrit : On 7/19/2012 6:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 18-juil.-12, à 20:48, meekerdb a écrit : Then, by the most common definition of atheism, atheists are doubly believer as they verify, with B for believes: B~g and Bm. Science is or should be

Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 19-juil.-12, à 18:56, John Clark a écrit : On Thu, Jul 19, 2012  Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Complete information is NEVER available, That is false. usually we make choice with (relative) complete information. I want tea, and I do have tea, I know the price, etc. but

Re: Contra Step 8 of UDA

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 19-juil.-12, à 21:46, Stephen P. King a écrit : Dear Bruno,     I need to slow down and just address this question of your as it seems to be the point where we disconnect from understanding each other. On 7/19/2012 10:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: At this stage I will ask you to

Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 19-juil.-12, à 22:30, John Clark a écrit : On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Maybe that's what the smarter ones think privately but that is most certainly NOT what they preach to their congregation on Sunday, if they even hinted at such a thing

Re: Contra Step 8 of UDA

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Stephen, I appreciate very much Louis Kauffman, including that paper. But I don't see your point. Nothing there seems to cast any problem for comp or its consequences. Why not read the MGA threads directly, and address the points specifically? Bruno Le 20-juil.-12, à 05:34, Stephen

Re: Contra Step 8 of UDA (errata)

2012-07-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 20-juil.-12, à 20:02, meekerdb a écrit : On 7/20/2012 8:40 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi Jason,     The problem that I see with this definition is that it makes existence contingent and not necessary. The contingency (or dependence in the weaker case) on the capacity of having

Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: so we end up making no choice at all or we make a choice based on nothing, in other words at random. I don't believe we can make choice at random. Fine, I don't think that's true but as far as this discussion goes it wouldn't

Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: My favorite catholic theologians has eventually been excommunicated indeed, and got professional problems, And so they are no longer catholic theologians, they should be proud of their excommunication and shout from the rooftops

Re: Unto Others (very interesting)

2012-07-21 Thread Stephen P. King
On 7/21/2012 5:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 06:47, meekerdb a écrit : This may be of interest to those recently discussing free-riders. Brent Original Message Unto Others BY MICHAEL SHERMER It is the oldest and most

Re: Contra Step 8 of UDA

2012-07-21 Thread Stephen P. King
On 7/21/2012 6:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 21:46, Stephen P. King a écrit : Dear Bruno, I need to slow down and just address this question of your as it seems to be the point where we disconnect from understanding each other. On 7/19/2012 10:22 AM,

Re: Contra Step 8 of UDA

2012-07-21 Thread Stephen P. King
On 7/21/2012 1:45 PM, John Clark wrote: On 7/15/2012 11:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: your [SPK] argument above cannot work. For in Darwin the observer emerges from computations too, even is physical. On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net

Re: Unto Others (very interesting)

2012-07-21 Thread meekerdb
On 7/21/2012 2:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 06:47, meekerdb a écrit : This may be of interest to those recently discussing free-riders. Brent Original Message Unto Others BY MICHAEL SHERMER It is the oldest and most

Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread meekerdb
On 7/21/2012 3:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 18:00, meekerdb a écrit : On 7/19/2012 6:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 18-juil.-12, à 20:48, meekerdb a écrit : Then, by the most common definition of atheism, atheists are doubly

Re: Stephen Hawking: Philosophy is Dead

2012-07-21 Thread meekerdb
On 7/21/2012 4:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 22:30, John Clark a écrit : On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Maybe that's what the smarter ones think privately but that is most certainly NOT what they preach to their congregation on

Re: Contra Step 8 of UDA (errata)

2012-07-21 Thread meekerdb
On 7/21/2012 5:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: OK. And it is here that conventional physics has a problem, for to relate observations with perceptions they rely on the physical supervenience thesis, which does no more work when comp is assumed. It is only a problem in that the explanation is

Re: Unto Others (very interesting)

2012-07-21 Thread Stephen P. King
On 7/21/2012 3:58 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 7/21/2012 2:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 06:47, meekerdb a écrit : This may be of interest to those recently discussing free-riders. Brent Original Message Unto Others BY MICHAEL SHERMER

Re: Unto Others (very interesting)

2012-07-21 Thread meekerdb
On 7/21/2012 7:08 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 7/21/2012 3:58 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 7/21/2012 2:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 06:47, meekerdb a écrit : This may be of interest to those recently discussing free-riders. Brent Original Message

Re: Unto Others (very interesting)

2012-07-21 Thread Stephen P. King
On 7/21/2012 10:12 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 7/21/2012 7:08 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 7/21/2012 3:58 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 7/21/2012 2:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 19-juil.-12, à 06:47, meekerdb a écrit : This may be of interest to those recently discussing free-riders. Brent