date:20210309

Well Bruno, for me, even a more profound concept is from astrophysics and not 
from Platonic/Computational physics. That being, if we ride the back of cosmic 
inflation, if it is indeed fact, then what is lost beyond our optical event 
horizon? Let us presume that the cosmos expanded since the Bang at a rate of 6 
times faster than light, so what information is undetectable beyond this light 
cone? (a tip o' the hat to Minkowski!). We are not referring to a cyclic cosmos 
Atticus Greek style, nor Turok-Penrose style, but simply within earlier 
renditions of this universe. Just hot plasma? Middle Earth? A grand Platonic 
computer performing a power-on and self test? 


-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 8:29 am
Subject: Re: Parallel Worlds Probably Exist. Here’s Why



On 6 Feb 2021, at 20:27, John Clark  wrote:
Parallel Worlds Probably Exist. Here’s Why

John K Clark


My comment there:
<>
We do have evidence for a physical reality, but we don’t have any evidence that 
the physical reality if the fundamental reality, and I can argue that we have a 
lot of evidence that the fundamental reality is not physical, but arithmetical. 
We have even a proof once we assume the (indexical and digital) Mechanist 
hypothesis in the cognitive science (not in the physical science).
Bruno






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Re: cognitive functioning in extremists

On pure technology, and I mean engineering, nuclear fission has yet to fully 
prove itself, because of high price$ and safety, or what was Chernobyl, 
Fukushima, and 3Mile Island for? I am still open to improved design physics and 
chemistry to improve all that. For energy, this Trumpkin tentatively endorses 
perovskite solar cells developed by oxford solar in the UK, connected to say, 
Tesla Power walls, or some other improved battery. 

It's cheaper and faster, and as Biden has declared  no fracking on public 
lands. Watch gas prices soar, and supplies shrink because the dem politicians 
declare saving the earth above the American people. I would have gotten a 
program for  electric baseboard heating and cooling up and running before I 
switched off the fracking!  

For crop growing I tentatively endorse vertical farming along with cellular 
meat production, unless there is a big problem with either? This is a partial 
fix against human and animal extinction. But then you know how is Orange nazis 
are- completely irrational!
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 John Clark  wrote:

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:47 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

> I would say that if madness is a disease that causes ones to distrust the 
> vocalizations of the dem establishment, sure, fine. The once democratic party 
> looks now to be an increasingly poor imitation of the kind of setup in the 
> People's Republic of China.

The Republican party is far more sympathetic to totalitarian governments than 
the Democrats are, just look at how Trump literally "fell in love" with North 
Korean murderer and torturer Kim Jong-un. 

> Team dem loves censorship,

That's why team Democrat wants to "open up the libel laws" and make them 
federal so that a sitting president could sue a newspaper if the newspaper says 
something negative about the president that he doesn't like… Oh wait… that's 
not team Democrat that's team Republic. 

> Based of recent democrat rulings, let's use natural gas prices and supply 
> (fracking) as a real-world test of how this impacts the economy? Nat gas 
> turbines supply about 38% of the electrical supply to the US. Much has been 
> in the service of replacing coal fired plants, and thus, shuttering those. 
> Now what happens to price and supplies for gas turbines when supplies 
> decrease because of policy-induced shortages?

I admit most environmentalists are not serious people and the solutions they 
propose are not realistic, but Joe Biden is not one of those environmental 
nutcases, he does not propose fracking be eliminated, and the reason coal 
burning plants have been largely shut down is not because of environmental 
issues but simply because coal plants are more expensive to operate than 
natural gas plants now that natural gas has become so cheap thanks to fracking. 
And Biden is the most pro-nuclear power president we've had in 50 years, a 
generous part of his $2 trillion climate change plan is earmarked for nuclear 
power, particularly small modular reactors, and he frequently mentions the fact 
that nuclear power is a zero carbon technology, and it has the best safety 
record of any energy source.  

> If we experience rolling blackouts and brownouts, the rabble, even dem rabble 
> will turn and blame their 'leadership,'

If Biden screws up the economy then he should be blamed, but so far at least I 
see no evidence that he is doing that.   
> what's more important, saving the earth or feeding your family? 

That's a very odd question. Is the important thing for you that when the Earth 
comes to an end and your family faces oblivion at least they will do so with a 
full stomach?
.John K Clark   See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

.

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Tomas Pales



On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 12:29:07 AM UTC+1 Brent wrote:

>
>
> On 3/9/2021 3:03 PM, Tomas Pales wrote:
>
> The law of identity determines what can possibly exist, namely that which 
> is identical to itself. But what is the difference between a possibly 
> existing object and a "really" existing object? I see no difference, and 
> hence all possible objects exist, necessarily.
>
>
> So everything that does not exist is something that cannot possibly 
> exist.  But does that mean in the future or just now.  If it means *just 
> now* then it's a trivial tautology, equivalent to "It is what it is." and 
> has no useful content.  But if it means now and the future, even confined 
> to the near future, it's false.
>
>
When you talk about something you must define it. The temporal position of 
an object is part of its definition (identity). So when object X can exist 
at time t, then it must exist at time t. It's trivial, just an example of 
the law of identity. 

>
>
> To which someone might say something like: "But there is a red car parked 
> in front of my house. Isn't it possible that, at this moment, a blue car 
> would be parked there instead? Then the blue car would be a possible object 
> that obviously doesn't exist." Um, no. A red car can't be blue; that would 
> be a contradiction, a violation of the law of identity, and hence 
> impossible. A blue car might be parked in front of my house in a different 
> possible world but then we are talking about a different world, and not 
> really about my house either but rather about a copy of my house in that 
> other world - and the fact that you can't see that other world is not a 
> proof that it doesn't exist.
>
>
> c.f. Russell's teapot.
>

c.f. Granny's glasses - when she can't find them, they don't exist

The question is what is the difference between a possibly existing object 
and a "really" existing object? The fact that you don't see something 
doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

I kind of side with Canadian philosopher John Leslie, as well as British
astronomer, James Jeans on this question. Both Leslie and Jeans see the cosmos
as a Great Thought. I formalize their conjectures as a Great Program. One may
ask, running on what?
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 Jason Resch wrote:

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:37 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
wrote:

On 3/9/2021 12:22 AM, Jason Resch wrote:

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:57 AM Kim Jones wrote:

What was there before there was nothing?

I don't believe reality was ever a state of absolute nothingness. Rather,
there are things that exist necessarily: logical laws, truth, properties of
numbers, etc. Some of these truths and number relations concern and define all
computational histories, and the appearance of a physical reality is a result
of these computations creating consciousness observers. See:
https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#A_Story_of_Creation

But you're casually confounding different sense of "exist". Logical laws,
number, etc are derivative on language. They don't "exist" physically. The
logicians meaning of exist is just to satisfy a predicate. Any sensible
discussion of "exist"needs to start with recognizing it has several different
meanings.

Hi Brent,
You are right there are various senses of the word "exists".
I dedicate a section specifically to this issue, and define three types, or
modes of existence:
https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#Three_Modes_of_Existence
Jason

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

On 3/9/2021 3:03 PM, Tomas Pales wrote:
The law of identity determines what can possibly exist, namely that
which is identical to itself. But what is the difference between a
possibly existing object and a "really" existing object? I see no
difference, and hence all possible objects exist, necessarily.

So everything that does not exist is something that cannot possibly
exist. But does that mean in the future or just now. If it means /just
now/ then it's a trivial tautology, equivalent to "It is what it is."
and has no useful content. But if it means now and the future, even
confined to the near future, it's false.

To which someone might say something like: "But there is a red car
parked in front of my house. Isn't it possible that, at this moment, a
blue car would be parked there instead? Then the blue car would be a
possible object that obviously doesn't exist." Um, no. A red car can't
be blue; that would be a contradiction, a violation of the law of
identity, and hence impossible. A blue car might be parked in front of
my house in a different possible world but then we are talking about a
different world, and not really about my house either but rather about
a copy of my house in that other world - and the fact that you can't
see that other world is not a proof that it doesn't exist.

c.f. Russell's teapot.

Brent

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List




On 3/9/2021 2:55 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:46 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
> wrote:


On 3/9/2021 1:20 PM, John Clark wrote:

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 1:57 AM Kim Jones mailto:kimjo...@ozemail.com.au>> wrote:

/> What was there before there was nothing?/


"Before" implies time and time implies change; if nothing exists
then nothing can change, and if nothing can change time can not
exist, and if time can't exist then there is no "before".


So when was there nothing?  Never.  So what is there now? Everything.



Silly word play does not amount to philosophical insight.


That was my point, Bruce.

Brent

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List




On 3/9/2021 2:30 PM, Philip Benjamin wrote:
If nothing ever existed, nothing can exist today. “Ex nihilo, nihil 
fit” (Parmenides).


Yeah, but what has he published recently?

Brent

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

On 3/9/2021 2:00 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 6:00 AM Jason Resch > wrote:

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Lawrence Crowell
mailto:goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Nothingness is a paradoxical thing. Does nothingness exist? If
so, then by having existential properties it is not pure
nothingness. If nothingness does not exist then there must
exist something. In a sense God is the antithesis of
nothingness and in a sense shares the same paradoxical issue.

There is a strange and paradoxical sort of identity between
/nothing/ and /everything/, particularly as it relates to
information theory. Insofar as the total set of all possibilities
has zero information content.

Even if it tells us what is not possible? I think you're getting in
over your head. What kind of "possible" to you mean? Simple not
self-contradictory? Nomological? Or what?

A random message string can contain zero information, but still exist
-- written on a piece of paper, for example.

I agree with your basic point, but a random string carries maximum
information, per Shannon. That's why maximally compressed string looks
random; although you can't really define random in the information
theoretic sense for finite strings.

Brent

This idea that zero information equates to 'nothing' is just an
elementary confusion of categories.

This is the main subject of Russell Standish's book: Theory of
Nothing: https://www.hpcoders.com.au/nothing.html

That is why Russell got so many things wrong in this book.

Bruce
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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Tomas Pales

The law of identity determines what can possibly exist, namely that which 
is identical to itself. But what is the difference between a possibly 
existing object and a "really" existing object? I see no difference, and 
hence all possible objects exist, necessarily.

To which someone might say something like: "But there is a red car parked 
in front of my house. Isn't it possible that, at this moment, a blue car 
would be parked there instead? Then the blue car would be a possible object 
that obviously doesn't exist." Um, no. A red car can't be blue; that would 
be a contradiction, a violation of the law of identity, and hence 
impossible. A blue car might be parked in front of my house in a different 
possible world but then we are talking about a different world, and not 
really about my house either but rather about a copy of my house in that 
other world - and the fact that you can't see that other world is not a 
proof that it doesn't exist.

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 6:34:51 AM UTC+1 Jason wrote:

> I wrote up my thoughts on the question of "Why does anything exist?"
>
> https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/
>
> I thought members of the list might appreciate some of the references 
> included in it. My thinking on this question has of course been greatly 
> expanded and influenced through my interactions with many of you over the 
> past decade.
>
> I welcome any feedback, thoughts, corrections, or questions regarding 
> anything written.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jason
>

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Bruce Kellett

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:46 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> On 3/9/2021 1:20 PM, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 1:57 AM Kim Jones  wrote:
>
> *> What was there before there was nothing?*
>>
>
> "Before" implies time and time implies change;  if nothing exists then
> nothing can change, and if nothing can change time can not exist, and if
> time can't exist then there is no "before".
>
>
> So when was there nothing?  Never.  So what is there now?  Everything.
>


Silly word play does not amount to philosophical insight.

Bruce

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List




On 3/9/2021 1:20 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 1:57 AM Kim Jones > wrote:


/> What was there before there was nothing?/


"Before" implies time and time implies change; if nothing exists then 
nothing can change, and if nothing can change time can not exist, and 
if time can't exist then there is no "before".


So when was there nothing?  Never.  So what is there now? Everything.

Brent

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Bruce Kellett

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:21 AM Jason Resch  wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, Bruce Kellett  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 6:00 AM Jason Resch  wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Lawrence Crowell <
>>> goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Nothingness is a paradoxical thing. Does nothingness exist? If so, then
 by having existential properties it is not pure nothingness. If nothingness
 does not exist then there must exist something. In a sense God is the
 antithesis of nothingness and in a sense shares the same paradoxical issue.
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a strange and paradoxical sort of identity between *nothing*
>>> and *everything*, particularly as it relates to information theory.
>>> Insofar as the total set of all possibilities has zero information content.
>>>
>>
>>
>> A random message string can contain zero information, but still exist --
>> written on a piece of paper, for example. This idea that zero information
>> equates to 'nothing' is just an elementary confusion of categories.
>>
>
> Random strings contain a maximum amount of entropy per bit and are
> incomprehensible. They may not signify anything useful but they require
> more bits to encode/represent than any less random string of the same
> length, so in that sense are maximal in the information they convey.
>
> I think you may be operating under a different definition of information
> than the standard Shannon sense of information theory.
>
> I grant that the equivalence between all strings and no strings is
> unintuitive,
>


It is certainly unintuitive. But does it make any sense? You have made the
retrievable information content of the strings to be of paramount
importance. But that is just a choice on your part. Other choices could
work better in these circumstances. Information content in the form of
comprehensible messages is not the only property of the strings, so they
are not equivalent to 'nothing'.

Applying information theory outside of its intended domain can lead to all
sorts of confusion..

Bruce

but I think my section on the Library of Babel is illustrative:
> https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#The_Library_of_Babel
>
> Jason
>

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RE: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Philip Benjamin

[Brent Meeker]
"https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#A_Story_of_Creation;
[Philip Benjamin] If nothing ever existed, nothing can exist today. "Ex nihilo, 
nihil fit" (Parmenides). Laws of any kind necessarily requires the existence of 
a conscious Law Giver. The logical question is: "what is more reasonable?" DEAD 
MATTER producing life or LIFE producing both dead matter and life-forms?  Only 
a degree of rationality can be established here.
  Civilized, erudite Phoenician, profligate pagan Augustine of Greco-Roman 
roots was instantly TRANSFORMED into a non-pagan and pulled the West off 
Greco-Roman paganism and superstitions  
(https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine). Thus he was 
the chief architect of Western Civilization built on the foundation of the 
Apostolic discourse at Athenian Mars Hill (Acts 17) where the Greco-Roman 
Unknown god was identified as the aseitous Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) 
Elohim (uni-plural) of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles.
  Progressive pagans with un-awakened consciousness cannot escape the 
questions of causality, aseity, morality, meaning and telos by simply evading 
them or assuming illogically the aseity of Dead Matter.
Philip Benjamin

From: 'Brent Meeker' Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:38 PM  
everything-list@googlegroups.com  
Subject: Re: Why Does Anything Exist?
On 3/9/2021 12:22 AM, Jason Resch wrote:


On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:57 AM Kim Jones 
mailto:kimjo...@ozemail.com.au>> wrote:
What was there before there was nothing?

I don't believe reality was ever a state of absolute nothingness. Rather, there 
are things that exist necessarily: logical laws, truth, properties of numbers, 
etc. Some of these truths and number relations concern and define all 
computational histories, and the appearance of a physical reality is a result 
of these computations creating consciousness observers. See: 
https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#A_Story_of_Creation

But you're casually confounding different sense of "exist".  Logical laws, 
number, etc are derivative on language.  They don't "exist" physically.  The 
logicians meaning of exist is just to satisfy a predicate.  Any sensible 
discussion of "exist"needs to start with recognizing it has several different 
meanings.

Brent
--.

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, Bruce Kellett  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 6:00 AM Jason Resch  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Lawrence Crowell <
>> goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nothingness is a paradoxical thing. Does nothingness exist? If so, then
>>> by having existential properties it is not pure nothingness. If nothingness
>>> does not exist then there must exist something. In a sense God is the
>>> antithesis of nothingness and in a sense shares the same paradoxical issue.
>>
>>
>> There is a strange and paradoxical sort of identity between *nothing*
>> and *everything*, particularly as it relates to information theory.
>> Insofar as the total set of all possibilities has zero information content.
>>
>
>
> A random message string can contain zero information, but still exist --
> written on a piece of paper, for example. This idea that zero information
> equates to 'nothing' is just an elementary confusion of categories.
>

Random strings contain a maximum amount of entropy per bit and are
incomprehensible. They may not signify anything useful but they require
more bits to encode/represent than any less random string of the same
length, so in that sense are maximal in the information they convey.

I think you may be operating under a different definition of information
than the standard Shannon sense of information theory.

I grant that the equivalence between all strings and no strings is
unintuitive, but I think my section on the Library of Babel is
illustrative:
https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#The_Library_of_Babel

Jason


>
> This is the main subject of Russell Standish's book: Theory of Nothing:
>> https://www.hpcoders.com.au/nothing.html
>>
>
>
> That is why Russell got so many things wrong in this book.
>
> Bruce
>
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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Bruce Kellett

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 6:00 AM Jason Resch  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Lawrence Crowell <
> goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nothingness is a paradoxical thing. Does nothingness exist? If so, then
>> by having existential properties it is not pure nothingness. If nothingness
>> does not exist then there must exist something. In a sense God is the
>> antithesis of nothingness and in a sense shares the same paradoxical issue.
>
>
> There is a strange and paradoxical sort of identity between *nothing* and
> *everything*, particularly as it relates to information theory. Insofar
> as the total set of all possibilities has zero information content.
>


A random message string can contain zero information, but still exist --
written on a piece of paper, for example. This idea that zero information
equates to 'nothing' is just an elementary confusion of categories.

This is the main subject of Russell Standish's book: Theory of Nothing:
> https://www.hpcoders.com.au/nothing.html
>


That is why Russell got so many things wrong in this book.

Bruce

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Re: cognitive functioning in extremists

Oh it didn't used to be proto-Soviet, or more properly, proto-Xi in nature 
because I used to vote for them incessantly during national and general 
elections. Surely, BLM & Antifa at the leadership level is pro-soviet in 
thought and deed. 
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/revolutionary-communist-party-head-vote-biden
Thus, if even the above sources are partially true, the Party endorses the 
goals and methods of a soviet model of control. If the large corporations throw 
in with these groups, and they have, if for nothing else than protection money, 
then these contribute to the ideology. The Party is thus, tainted, so I am out. 
Keep your eye upon the economy, prices. and shortages of goods, jobs, and fuel 
availability.. If things worsen terribly, the once United States is headed for 
a split, de facto, if for nothing else, because what, as a people do we now 
have in common? 
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 10:46 am
Subject: Re: cognitive functioning in extremists

On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:47:15 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

I would say that if madness is a disease that causes ones to distrust the 
vocalizations of the dem establishment, sure, fine. The once democratic party 
looks now to be an increasingly poor imitation of the kind of setup in the 
People's Republic of China. Team dem loves censorship,they want to control what 
people say, and it all gets funded (The CP) by oligarchs. I will just 
reiterate, that if the dems screw up the economy post-Covid, there will be a 
ferocious public reaction. 

When people tell me the Democratic Party is communist they are really telling 
me they have no clue as to what communism or Marxism are. The conspiracy 
narratives about communism is just a latter day form of McCarthyism that is 
promoted by QAnon and t'Rumpism. It is a case of Dumb White Trash America on 
parade. 
LC 

Based of recent democrat rulings, let's use natural gas prices and supply 
(fracking) as a real-world test of how this impacts the economy? Nat gas 
turbines supply about 38% of the electrical supply to the US. Much has been in 
the service of replacing coal fired plants, and thus, shuttering those. Now 
what happens to price and supplies for gas turbines when supplies decrease 
because of policy-induced shortages? It's not like there is solar and wind 
ready to replace the fracked gas that supplied electrical power. A state like 
Massachusetts or New York, could have thus prepared to do this for a cleaner, 
greener, world. So, why haven't they? They could have been the true 
revolutionaries under the rule of Orange Man, defying his earth-unfriendly 
energy policies. So where's my solar and wind power along with my flying car?
If we experience rolling blackouts and brownouts, the rabble, even dem rabble 
will turn and blame their 'leadership,' because what's more important, saving 
the earth or feeding your family? Consider this a test.

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 8:32 am
Subject: Re: cognitive functioning in extremists

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 8:03:46 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Yeah I found it interesting that the founder of the proud boys a non-white guy 
was ID or outed as an FBI informant in certain drug cases some years back so I 
was always cautious of this so-called group because they fight they fought the 
antifa people but for what reason? I had wondered if one or more than them were 
FBI informants and according to one attorney general or former assistant 
attorney general as I recall the dude in question was indeed an FBI informant. 
Back to the original topic the paper by the Royal society asserts, and the good 
physicists who posted this study, holds that people who hold views different 
from what I would term the Democratic socialist norm, that is so prevalent 
nowadays and academia, is indeed mentally defective.That's somehow their 
ability to observe the world and process information is in some fashion 
disenhanced. Like calling those who the Royal society disagrees with, retarded. 
That was my takeaway from the Royal society article provided. It also reminds 
me of the 1939 Nazi psychiatrist process called teagarden 4 or teer garden for 
that was utilized to get rid of the retarded, depressed people, political 
opponents. It seems to me like this methodology is now again being proposed if 
so we'll get to see who is the weekend victim, and who in actuality is not?On 
Friday, February 26, 2021 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
 wrote:

On 2/26/2021 1:49 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>
> We don't live in a free country, but a land that is increasingly 
> menaced by an oligarchy funding democratic socialist (soviet) causes.
>

This little bit and other things give me ample evidence that Spudboy is a 
madman. I wonder

Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch  wrote:

*> There is a strange and paradoxical sort of identity between nothing and
> everything,*
>

I agree. Meaning needs contrast, so a universe where everything has the
flogknee property would be indistinguishable from a universe where nothing
has the flogknee property, and the best definition of "nothing" that I know
of is infinite unbounded homogeneity.

John K Clark

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 1:57 AM Kim Jones  wrote:

*> What was there before there was nothing?*
>

"Before" implies time and time implies change;  if nothing exists then
nothing can change, and if nothing can change time can not exist, and if
time can't exist then there is no "before".

John K Clark

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Re: Parallel Worlds Probably Exist. Here’s Why

2021-03-09 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

On 3/9/2021 5:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 6 Feb 2021, at 20:27, John Clark > wrote:

Parallel Worlds Probably Exist. Here’s Why

John K Clark

My comment there:

<<
Why to assume even one universe? We know since the 1930s that all
models of elementary arithmetic execute all computations, and that no
universal machine can know which computations support it, and indeed
that if the machine looks below at itself (and environment) its
Mechanist Substitution level, she has to see the statistical impact of
the "parallel computation". The only problem is that the wave itself
must be explained by the logics of machine self-reference mathematics,
and that is what I did (already in the 1970s, but I took it as an
argument against Mechanism, as I was not aware that the physicists
were already there. The advantage is a simpler "theory of everything"
(elementary arithmetic or Turing equivalent), but also that we get
very naturally the qualia/quanta distinctions. This if unfortunately
not well known, and of course physicalist or materialist philosophers
hate this, as physics become reducible to pure arithmetic/computer
science.

We do have evidence for a physical reality, but we don’t have any
evidence that the physical reality if the fundamental reality, and I
can argue that we have a lot of evidence that the fundamental reality
is not physical, but arithmetical. We have even a proof once we assume
the (indexical and digital) Mechanist hypothesis in the cognitive
science (not in the physical science).

Whatever explains every possibility, fails to explain anything at all.

Brent

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:37 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 3/9/2021 12:22 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:57 AM Kim Jones  wrote:
>
>> What was there before there was nothing?
>>
>
> I don't believe reality was ever a state of absolute nothingness. Rather,
> there are things that exist necessarily: logical laws, truth, properties of
> numbers, etc. Some of these truths and number relations concern and define
> all computational histories, and the appearance of a physical reality is a
> result of these computations creating consciousness observers. See:
> https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#A_Story_of_Creation
>
>
> But you're casually confounding different sense of "exist".  Logical laws,
> number, etc are derivative on language.  They don't "exist" physically.
> The logicians meaning of exist is just to satisfy a predicate.  Any
> sensible discussion of "exist"needs to start with recognizing it has
> several different meanings.
>

Hi Brent,

You are right there are various senses of the word "exists".

I dedicate a section specifically to this issue, and define three types, or
modes of existence:
https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#Three_Modes_of_Existence

Jason

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Lawrence Crowell <
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nothingness is a paradoxical thing. Does nothingness exist? If so, then by
> having existential properties it is not pure nothingness. If nothingness
> does not exist then there must exist something. In a sense God is the
> antithesis of nothingness and in a sense shares the same paradoxical issue.


There is a strange and paradoxical sort of identity between *nothing* and
*everything*, particularly as it relates to information theory. Insofar as
the total set of all possibilities has zero information content.

This is the main subject of Russell Standish's book: Theory of Nothing:
https://www.hpcoders.com.au/nothing.html

Jason


>
> LC
>
> On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-6 Jason wrote:
>
>> I wrote up my thoughts on the question of "Why does anything exist?"
>>
>> https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/
>>
>> I thought members of the list might appreciate some of the references
>> included in it. My thinking on this question has of course been greatly
>> expanded and influenced through my interactions with many of you over the
>> past decade.
>>
>> I welcome any feedback, thoughts, corrections, or questions regarding
>> anything written.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Jason
>>
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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List




On 3/9/2021 12:22 AM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:57 AM Kim Jones > wrote:


What was there before there was nothing?


I don't believe reality was ever a state of absolute nothingness. 
Rather, there are things that exist necessarily: logical laws, truth, 
properties of numbers, etc. Some of these truths and number relations 
concern and define all computational histories, and the appearance of 
a physical reality is a result of these computations creating 
consciousness observers. See: 
https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#A_Story_of_Creation 



But you're casually confounding different sense of "exist".  Logical 
laws, number, etc are derivative on language.  They don't "exist" 
physically.  The logicians meaning of exist is just to satisfy a 
predicate.  Any sensible discussion of "exist"needs to start with 
recognizing it has several different meanings.


Brent

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Re: cognitive functioning in extremists

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:47 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> I would say that if madness is a disease that causes ones to distrust
> the vocalizations of the dem establishment, sure, fine. The once democratic
> party looks now to be an increasingly poor imitation of the kind of setup
> in the People's Republic of China.*
>

The Republican party is far more sympathetic to totalitarian governments than
the Democrats are, just look at how Trump literally "fell in love" with
North Korean murderer and torturer Kim Jong-un.

> *Team dem loves censorship,*
>

That's why team Democrat wants to "open up the libel laws" and make them
federal so that a sitting president could sue a newspaper if the newspaper
says something negative about the president that he doesn't like… Oh wait…
that's not team Democrat that's team Republic.

*> Based of recent democrat rulings, let's use natural gas prices and
> supply (fracking) as a real-world test of how this impacts the economy? Nat
> gas turbines supply about 38% of the electrical supply to the US. Much has
> been in the service of replacing coal fired plants, and thus, shuttering
> those. Now what happens to price and supplies for gas turbines when
> supplies decrease because of policy-induced shortages?*
>

I admit most environmentalists are not serious people and the solutions
they propose are not realistic, but Joe Biden is not one of those environmental
nutcases, he does not propose fracking be eliminated, and the reason
coal burning
plants have been largely shut down is not because of environmental issues
but simply because coal plants are more expensive to operate than natural
gas plants now that natural gas has become so cheap thanks to fracking. And
Biden is the most pro-nuclear power president we've had in 50 years, a
generous part of his $2 trillion climate change plan is earmarked for
nuclear power, particularly small modular reactors, and he frequently
mentions the fact that nuclear power is a zero carbon technology, and it
has the best safety record of any energy source.

> *> If we experience rolling blackouts and brownouts, the rabble, even dem
> rabble will turn and blame their 'leadership,'*
>

If Biden screws up the economy then he should be blamed, but so far at
least I see no evidence that he is doing that.

> *> what's more important, saving the earth or feeding your family? *
>

That's a very odd question. Is the important thing for you that when the Earth
comes to an end and your family faces oblivion at least they will do so
with a full stomach?

.
John K Clark   See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

.

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Re: cognitive functioning in extremists

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 11:52 AM Lawrence Crowell <
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 10:05:25 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:32 AM Lawrence Crowell 
>> wrote:
>>
>> * > academia, is indeed mentally defective.*
>>
>>
>>
> I did not write that. I think in the replies and so forth with nested
> statements that somehow became implied as mine.
>

Sorry Lawrence, my mistake.

John K Clark   See what's on my new list at  Extropolis


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Re: more books on quantum foundations

2021-03-09 Thread 'scerir' via Everything List

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm/#BookPhilQM

> Il 09/03/2021 16:58 'scerir' via Everything List 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, d'Espagnat (with Jammer) was one of my very best, in the 70s. But - 
> since then - I'm in trouble. Maybe 'Quantum' is a language, nothing more  
> than a language. Efficient?
> 
> > > Il 09/03/2021 14:50 Bruno Marchal  ha 
> scritto:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > > On 15 Feb 2021, at 07:29, 'scerir' via 
> > Everything List  > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I hope these links work
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://www.amazon.it/Conceptual-Foundations-Quantum-Mechanics/dp/0198844697/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=barrett+foundations=1613369653=8-1
> > >  
> > > https://www.amazon.it/Conceptual-Foundations-Quantum-Mechanics/dp/0198844697/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C5M%C5%17D%D5%D1=1=barrett+foundations=1613369653=8-1
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > I thought it was the book by Bernard d’Espagnat, with the same 
> > title. Barrett is usually rather good, but I would recommend the older book 
> > by d’Espagnat which is very good.
> > The book by David Albert, (“Quantum Mechanics and Experience, 
> > Harvard”) despite being wrong on Everett is a very good introduction too, 
> > especially for non-mathematicians.
> > 
> > Bruno
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > https://www.amazon.it/Quantum-Reality-Meaning-Mechanics-Theories-ebook/dp/B0851R2FY7/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=baggott=1613369882=8-4
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://www.amazon.it/Foundations-Quantum-Theory-Classical-Concepts/dp/3319847384/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=klaas+landsman=1613370027=8-1
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://www.amazon.it/Quantum-Cookbook-Mathematical-Foundations-Mechanics/dp/0198827865/ref=sr_1_15?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=baggott=1613370234=8-15
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://www.amazon.it/dp/3030400670/?coliid=I3FFGMO91H2EV4=Y8V6GY7TI2R8=1_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
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> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1842812156.87609.1613370581432%40mail1.libero.it
> > >  
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> > >  .
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > 
> > 
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> > > 
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Re: more books on quantum foundations

2021-03-09 Thread 'scerir' via Everything List

Yes, d'Espagnat (with Jammer) was one of my very best, in the 70s. But - since 
then - I'm in trouble. Maybe 'Quantum' is a language, nothing more  than a 
language. Efficient?

> Il 09/03/2021 14:50 Bruno Marchal  ha scritto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > On 15 Feb 2021, at 07:29, 'scerir' via Everything List 
> mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com > 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I hope these links work
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.amazon.it/Conceptual-Foundations-Quantum-Mechanics/dp/0198844697/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=barrett+foundations=1613369653=8-1
> >  
> > https://www.amazon.it/Conceptual-Foundations-Quantum-Mechanics/dp/0198844697/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C5M%C5%17D%D5%D1=1=barrett+foundations=1613369653=8-1
> > 
> > > 
> I thought it was the book by Bernard d’Espagnat, with the same title. 
> Barrett is usually rather good, but I would recommend the older book by 
> d’Espagnat which is very good.
> The book by David Albert, (“Quantum Mechanics and Experience, Harvard”) 
> despite being wrong on Everett is a very good introduction too, especially 
> for non-mathematicians.
> 
> Bruno
> 
> 
> 
> > > 
> > 
> > https://www.amazon.it/Quantum-Reality-Meaning-Mechanics-Theories-ebook/dp/B0851R2FY7/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=baggott=1613369882=8-4
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.amazon.it/Foundations-Quantum-Theory-Classical-Concepts/dp/3319847384/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=klaas+landsman=1613370027=8-1
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.amazon.it/Quantum-Cookbook-Mathematical-Foundations-Mechanics/dp/0198827865/ref=sr_1_15?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=baggott=1613370234=8-15
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.amazon.it/dp/3030400670/?coliid=I3FFGMO91H2EV4=Y8V6GY7TI2R8=1_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im
> > 
> > 
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Re: cognitive functioning in extremists

2021-03-09 Thread Lawrence Crowell

On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:47:15 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> I would say that if madness is a disease that causes ones to distrust the 
> vocalizations of the dem establishment, sure, fine. The once democratic 
> party looks now to be an increasingly poor imitation of the kind of setup 
> in the People's Republic of China. Team dem loves censorship,they want to 
> control what people say, and it all gets funded (The CP) by oligarchs. I 
> will just reiterate, that if the dems screw up the economy post-Covid, 
> there will be a ferocious public reaction. 
>

When people tell me the Democratic Party is communist they are really 
telling me they have no clue as to what communism or Marxism are. The 
conspiracy narratives about communism is just a latter day form of 
McCarthyism that is promoted by QAnon and t'Rumpism. It is a case of Dumb 
White Trash America on parade. 

LC
 

>
> Based of recent democrat rulings, let's use natural gas prices and supply 
> (fracking) as a real-world test of how this impacts the economy? Nat gas 
> turbines supply about 38% of the electrical supply to the US. Much has been 
> in the service of replacing coal fired plants, and thus, shuttering those. 
> Now what happens to price and supplies for gas turbines when supplies 
> decrease because of policy-induced shortages? It's not like there is solar 
> and wind ready to replace the fracked gas that supplied electrical power. A 
> state like Massachusetts or New York, could have thus prepared to do this 
> for a cleaner, greener, world. So, why haven't they? They could have been 
> the true revolutionaries under the rule of Orange Man, defying his 
> earth-unfriendly energy policies. So where's my solar and wind power along 
> with my flying car?
>
> If we experience rolling blackouts and brownouts, the rabble, even dem 
> rabble will turn and blame their 'leadership,' because what's more 
> important, saving the earth or feeding your family? Consider this a test.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 8:32 am
> Subject: Re: cognitive functioning in extremists
>
> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 8:03:46 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Yeah I found it interesting that the founder of the proud boys a non-white 
> guy was ID or outed as an FBI informant in certain drug cases some years 
> back so I was always cautious of this so-called group because they fight 
> they fought the antifa people but for what reason? I had wondered if one or 
> more than them were FBI informants and according to one attorney general or 
> former assistant attorney general as I recall the dude in question was 
> indeed an FBI informant. 
> Back to the original topic the paper by the Royal society asserts, and the 
> good physicists who posted this study, holds that people who hold views 
> different from what I would term the Democratic socialist norm, that is so 
> prevalent nowadays and academia, is indeed mentally defective.
> That's somehow their ability to observe the world and process information 
> is in some fashion disenhanced. Like calling those who the Royal society 
> disagrees with, retarded. That was my takeaway from the Royal society 
> article provided. 
> It also reminds me of the 1939 Nazi psychiatrist process called teagarden 
> 4 or teer garden for that was utilized to get rid of the retarded, 
> depressed people, political opponents. It seems to me like this methodology 
> is now again being proposed if so we'll get to see who is the weekend 
> victim, and who in actuality is not?
> --
> On Friday, February 26, 2021 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <
> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 2/26/2021 1:49 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
> >
> > We don't live in a free country, but a land that is increasingly 
> > menaced by an oligarchy funding democratic socialist (soviet) causes.
> >
>
>
> This little bit and other things give me ample evidence that Spudboy is a 
> madman. I wonder why any rational person would engage him in any 
> correspondence.
>
> LC
>  
>
> The oligarchs funding tax cuts for the rich, voter suppression measures, 
> repealing the ACA, opposing net neutrality, permitting religions to 
> discriminate,...THOSE socialist causes?
>
> What name to you go by in the Proud Bois?
>
> Brent
>
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>  
> 
>  
> .
>

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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Lawrence Crowell

Nothingness is a paradoxical thing. Does nothingness exist? If so, then by 
having existential properties it is not pure nothingness. If nothingness 
does not exist then there must exist something. In a sense God is the 
antithesis of nothingness and in a sense shares the same paradoxical issue.

LC

On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 11:34:51 PM UTC-6 Jason wrote:

> I wrote up my thoughts on the question of "Why does anything exist?"
>
> https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/
>
> I thought members of the list might appreciate some of the references 
> included in it. My thinking on this question has of course been greatly 
> expanded and influenced through my interactions with many of you over the 
> past decade.
>
> I welcome any feedback, thoughts, corrections, or questions regarding 
> anything written.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jason
>

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Re: more books on quantum foundations

2021-03-09 Thread Bruno Marchal


> On 15 Feb 2021, at 07:29, 'scerir' via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I hope these links work
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/Conceptual-Foundations-Quantum-Mechanics/dp/0198844697/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=barrett+foundations=1613369653=8-1
>  
> 

I thought it was the book by Bernard d’Espagnat, with the same title. Barrett 
is usually rather good, but I would recommend the older book by d’Espagnat 
which is very good.
The book by David Albert, (“Quantum Mechanics and Experience, Harvard”) despite 
being wrong on Everett is a very good introduction too, especially for 
non-mathematicians.

Bruno


> https://www.amazon.it/Quantum-Reality-Meaning-Mechanics-Theories-ebook/dp/B0851R2FY7/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=baggott=1613369882=8-4
>  
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/Foundations-Quantum-Theory-Classical-Concepts/dp/3319847384/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=klaas+landsman=1613370027=8-1
>  
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/Quantum-Cookbook-Mathematical-Foundations-Mechanics/dp/0198827865/ref=sr_1_15?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=1=baggott=1613370234=8-15
>  
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/dp/3030400670/?coliid=I3FFGMO91H2EV4=Y8V6GY7TI2R8=1_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im
> 
> 
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Re: Parallel Worlds Probably Exist. Here’s Why

2021-03-09 Thread Bruno Marchal


> On 6 Feb 2021, at 20:27, John Clark  wrote:
> 
> Parallel Worlds Probably Exist. Here’s Why 
> 
> 
> John K Clark


My comment there:

<<
Why to assume even one universe? We know since the 1930s that all models of 
elementary arithmetic execute all computations, and that no universal machine 
can know which computations  support it, and indeed that if the machine looks 
below at itself (and environment) its Mechanist Substitution level, she has to 
see the statistical impact of the "parallel computation". The only problem is 
that the wave itself must be explained by the logics of machine self-reference 
mathematics, and that is what I did (already in the 1970s, but I took it as an 
argument against Mechanism, as I was not aware that the physicists were already 
there. The advantage is a simpler "theory of everything" (elementary arithmetic 
or Turing equivalent), but also that we get very naturally the qualia/quanta 
distinctions. This if unfortunately not well known, and of course physicalist 
or materialist philosophers hate this, as physics become reducible to pure 
arithmetic/computer science.
>>

We do have evidence for a physical reality, but we don’t have any evidence that 
the physical reality if the fundamental reality, and I can argue that we have a 
lot of evidence that the fundamental reality is not physical, but arithmetical. 
We have even a proof once we assume the (indexical and digital) Mechanist 
hypothesis in the cognitive science (not in the physical science).

Bruno




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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?

2021-03-09 Thread Kim Jones

Yes. As some say around here "Everything is the inside view of Nothing". A set 
of appearances, as Bruno says. What numbers see - dream - whatever

Kim Jones B.Mus GDTL 

> On 9 Mar 2021, at 7:23 pm, Jason Resch  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:57 AM Kim Jones  wrote:
>> What was there before there was nothing?
> 
> I don't believe reality was ever a state of absolute nothingness. Rather, 
> there are things that exist necessarily: logical laws, truth, properties of 
> numbers, etc. Some of these truths and number relations concern and define 
> all computational histories, and the appearance of a physical reality is a 
> result of these computations creating consciousness observers. See: 
> https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/#A_Story_of_Creation
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
>  
>> 
>> Kim Jones B.Mus GDTL 
>> 
>>> On 9 Mar 2021, at 4:35 pm, Jason Resch  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wrote up my thoughts on the question of "Why does anything exist?"
>>> 
>>> https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/
>>> 
>>> I thought members of the list might appreciate some of the references 
>>> included in it. My thinking on this question has of course been greatly 
>>> expanded and influenced through my interactions with many of you over the 
>>> past decade.
>>> 
>>> I welcome any feedback, thoughts, corrections, or questions regarding 
>>> anything written.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "Everything List" group.
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Re: Why Does Anything Exist?