Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

2012-06-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jun 2012, at 20:18, meekerdb wrote: On 6/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You might be disturbed by the fact that in experience 2, the "original" remains the same person, so we don't count him as a new person, each time he steps in the box. This, in my opinion, illustrates agai

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-06-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jun 2012, at 23:42, RMahoney wrote: Does a Free Willer believe they willed themselves into existence in this Universe? Some can believe that. Open question in comp. Actually "this universe" is a quite vague concept with comp. Don't know comp. comp is the idea that we are (a prior

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-06-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 June 2012 10:29, Bruno Marchal wrote: > or read my recent conversation with Charles and LizR) On the FOAR list, that is! David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googl

Re: Church Turing be dammed.

2012-06-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Jun 2, 2:39 am, Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > I think that Matter-Energy and Sense-Motive are dual aspects of the > > same thing. If you are talking about the brain only, then you are > > talking about matter and energy, but no person exists

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:48 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> A belief that was enormously popular during the dark ages and led to a > thousand years of philosophical dead ends; not surprising really, confusion > is inevitable if you insist on trying to make sense out of gibberish. > > > So you think the

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 Brian Tenneson wrote: > The fact that free will is debated lends credence to the notion that > "Free will" is not meaningless. "Free will" has to mean something before > it can be attacked. But I'm not saying "free will" does not exist, and I'm not attacking it because the

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 meekerdb wrote: > Can existing practice be justified on a purely utilitarian basis? > Yes. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegro

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread Brian Tenneson
The capacity (which can be defined) of an agent (which can be defined) to be able (which can be defined) to choose (which can be defined) when (which can be defined) presented (which can be defined) with a choice (which can be defined). Certainly not meaningless. On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:58 AM,

Re: Church Turing be dammed. (Probability Question)

2012-06-02 Thread meekerdb
On 6/2/2012 1:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jun 2012, at 20:18, meekerdb wrote: On 6/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You might be disturbed by the fact that in experience 2, the "original" remains the same person, so we don't count him as a new person, each time he steps in the box.

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread Brian Tenneson
FREE means being *able *to choose *any *among a number of choices. You want freedom of will to mean an agent can choose something beyond what the given choices are? That would imply free will does not exist yet, in that event, free will is still NOT meaningless. Right now I am unconcerned with w

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread meekerdb
The hard one to define with falling into circularity is "agent" which is often defined as an entity with free will. To test something you need an operational definition. "Agent" might be defined as an entity with acts unpredictably but purposefully. But both of those are a little fuzzy. Bre

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread meekerdb
On 6/2/2012 11:45 AM, John Mikes wrote: Did ANYBODY so far - among those ~100(+?) posts (so far erased in this discussion) *I D E N T I F Y* */_free will_/*? I've tried to identify two meanings: One, which I consider unproblematic, is the social and legal attribute of decisions which are not

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread meekerdb
On 6/1/2012 11:25 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: The fuss is because the concept is thought to be fundamental to jurisprudence and social policy (it's even cited in some Supreme Court decisions). The concept of free will has been carried over from past theological and philosophical ideas. But now the

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread Brian Tenneson
How about define agent to be a type 4 agent as explained here: http://cs.wallawalla.edu/~aabyan/Colloquia/Aware/aware2.html On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:22 PM, meekerdb wrote: > The hard one to define with falling into circularity is "agent" which is > often defined as an entity with free will. To

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-02 Thread meekerdb
I don't think any of us qualify since you have to believe and be aware of your belief of every tautology which means all possible mathematical proofs. Actually it seems to me that so much self awareness is contrary to the common notion of 'free will'. The feeling of 'free will' comes about bec