Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On 28 December 2013 14:44, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > Liz, > > Not at all. What SR shows that there are relativistic situations in which > it is impossible to establish simultaneous clock time t values, for > relativistic observers to agree on the clock time t value of some event, > and then ONLY in

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

Pierz, Thanks for the laugh, but there is something very fishy about your PU theory! :-) Edgar On Friday, December 27, 2013 8:09:24 PM UTC-5, Pierz wrote: > > Edgar is on the right track, but I need to point out his fundamental > error. There is indeed a different time from clock time. But i

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

Liz, Not at all. What SR shows that there are relativistic situations in which it is impossible to establish simultaneous clock time t values, for relativistic observers to agree on the clock time t value of some event, and then ONLY in the case that relativistic frames are different. When the

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

PIerz, Thanks for the laugh, though something smells fishy about your argument! Though clocks measure only clock time it is clear that present time exists as it is the most fundamental experience of our existence. Second P-time can be measured by Omega, the curvature of our hyperspherical unive

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On 28 December 2013 14:09, Pierz wrote: > Edgar is on the right track, but I need to point out his fundamental > error. There is indeed a different time from clock time. But it's not > called P-time, it's called U-time and every moment does not occur at the > same time across the universe for all

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

Edgar is on the right track, but I need to point out his fundamental error. There is indeed a different time from clock time. But it's not called P-time, it's called U-time and every moment does not occur at the same time across the universe for all observers. Rather, no two events can ever occ

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

Thi common present moment (CPM for short?) sounds like something introduced to make the universe seem more intuitively obvious. There is no reason I know of (theoretical or experimental) to suggest that it really does exist, and several reasons (theoretical and experimental) to suggest that it does

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On 12/27/2013 9:55 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Brent, Thank goodness, some sanity and clarity! Yes, you are correct and that is pretty much what I'm talking about. It's quite easy to understand really. There has to be something happening in Andromeda right now simultaneously with what's happenin

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > All events without exception happen in the present moment. > An event is specified by a unique time and space, a asteroid crashing into Chicxulub 66 million years ago was an event, but it did not happen in the present moment. > Of course

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

But you haven't really given an argument for why there "has to be something happening in Andromeda right now simultaneously with what's happening here on earth for cosmology to make sense"--that seems to be just an assertion of faith on your part. Cosmology is perfectly coherent as an attempt to de

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

Brent, Thank goodness, some sanity and clarity! Yes, you are correct and that is pretty much what I'm talking about. It's quite easy to understand really. There has to be something happening in Andromeda right now simultaneously with what's happening here on earth for cosmology to make sense.

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

John, All events without exception happen in the present moment. The present moment is the only locus of actual reality in which anything can happen. Of course those events can happen with different clock times according to relativistic conditions in different frames, but they always happen in

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

I feel the urge to engage my caps lock and start ranting about crackpots. Where is Mr Taylor when you need him? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email t

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > Clock time simultaneity has nothing to do with the present moment which > is an entirely separate type of time I call P-time. > Did event X happen in the present time? There is no consensus, observers disagree. > This is clear because obs

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On 12/26/2013 8:12 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen > wrote: > The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up again with different clock times, but always in the exact same present moment. This proves

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On 27 December 2013 05:24, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > John, > > You are talking about clock time simultaneity which is well understood in > relativity and which I accept and my theory is completely compatible with. > Clock time simultaneity has nothing to do with the present moment which is > an enti

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

John, You are talking about clock time simultaneity which is well understood in relativity and which I accept and my theory is completely compatible with. Clock time simultaneity has nothing to do with the present moment which is an entirely separate type of time I call P-time. This is clear be

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up again > with different clock times, but always in the exact same present moment. > This proves beyond any doubt there are two kinds of time, clock time which > varies by rela

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

Special relativity shows that there is no such thing as a "common present moment". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...

Re: A simple incontrovertible proof there are two kinds of time and a couple of implications

On 12/23/2013 11:10 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up again with different clock times, but always in the exact same present moment. This proves beyond any doubt there are two kinds of time, clock time which varies by relativistic