Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Lawson! Really?! Fully enlightened and able to fool one's self?! Maybe by fully enlightened you mean CC only? I don't see how a person in UC or Brahman could possibly fool themselves. Ok, maybe Nisargadatta fooled himself about the dangers of smoking cigarettes. Anyway, can you give an example? Thanks. From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 2:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Sure. My point is that just because some theoretical state of consciousness brings with it total honesty, doesn't mean that that is really the case. I can conceive of situations where one might be fully enlightened according to some aspect of the TM definition, and still be fooling themselves. Of course, if you define enlightenment as never fooling yourself, then this doesn't make sense. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Lawson, couldn't they be having an internal dialogue and be witnessing it, not identifying with it, not being gripped by it? Something along those lines. From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  We all tell ourselves lies. Even fully enlightened people likely lie to themselves, but since they allegedly no longer have an internal dialogue, they can't catch their own lies because they appear to be intuitive truths. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Well, MMYP sincerely believed that John Hagelin would win the 2000 election, from what I hear. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Lawson! Really?! Fully enlightened and able to fool one's self?! Maybe by fully enlightened you mean CC only? I don't see how a person in UC or Brahman could possibly fool themselves. Ok, maybe Nisargadatta fooled himself about the dangers of smoking cigarettes. Anyway, can you give an example? Thanks. From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 2:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  Sure. My point is that just because some theoretical state of consciousness brings with it total honesty, doesn't mean that that is really the case. I can conceive of situations where one might be fully enlightened according to some aspect of the TM definition, and still be fooling themselves. Of course, if you define enlightenment as never fooling yourself, then this doesn't make sense. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Lawson, couldn't they be having an internal dialogue and be witnessing it, not identifying with it, not being gripped by it?àSomething along those lines. From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àWe all tell ourselves lies. Even fully enlightened people likely lie to themselves, but since they allegedly no longer have an internal dialogue, they can't catch their own lies because they appear to be intuitive truths. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Ãâàyou have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
right!apparently CC, UC,...etc; don't have much bearing on strategic blunders, and fooling one'self. Such states involve transcending relative existence, not necessarily making changes or selecting certain options of behavior in relative existence. Ramakrishna smoked on occasion, although I haven't found a statement as to exactly how much. In any event, that could have been a contributing cause to his fatal throat cancer. ... Nikola Tesla by Napoleon Sarony: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/6/52903.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Well, MMYP sincerely believed that John Hagelin would win the 2000 election, from what I hear. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Lawson! Really?! Fully enlightened and able to fool one's self?! Maybe by fully enlightened you mean CC only? I don't see how a person in UC or Brahman could possibly fool themselves. Ok, maybe Nisargadatta fooled himself about the dangers of smoking cigarettes. Anyway, can you give an example? Thanks. From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 2:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  Sure. My point is that just because some theoretical state of consciousness brings with it total honesty, doesn't mean that that is really the case. I can conceive of situations where one might be fully enlightened according to some aspect of the TM definition, and still be fooling themselves. Of course, if you define enlightenment as never fooling yourself, then this doesn't make sense. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Lawson, couldn't they be having an internal dialogue and be witnessing it, not identifying with it, not being gripped by it?àSomething along those lines. From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àWe all tell ourselves lies. Even fully enlightened people likely lie to themselves, but since they allegedly no longer have an internal dialogue, they can't catch their own lies because they appear to be intuitive truths. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Ãâàyou have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
You only see what you are looking for. Painting yourself as a courageous seeker of the truth is ludicrous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
We all tell ourselves lies. Even fully enlightened people likely lie to themselves, but since they allegedly no longer have an internal dialogue, they can't catch their own lies because they appear to be intuitive truths. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Michael Jackson: I was a real TM true believer... Yes, I hate the admin of my old school, and some of the teachers, but I got out of them what I needed and pretty much ignored the rest. But, you don't make it clear if you were a student or not and what degree you were pursuing. I know it must be tough trying to work as a full-time baker and at the same time learning English, but I was trying to get a degree in IT while working as a fulltime janitor. Maybe you were a decent baker at that religious school up in Iowa, and maybe you did chant some nonsense gibberiesh syllables at night inside a pagoda -'mantras' - I don't know. Go figure. But, you don't seem to know very much about yoga for having been up there for two years doing baker-zen. Did you have any gurus up there? I used to know Robert Keith Wallace and his brother Peter at 433 and SIMS.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
srijau: you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore. He seems to be kind of weird for someone who claims to have got more than one bija mantra from MMY or his other teachers. I wonder where he got the other 'mantras', and why? He doesn't seem to have done well in school and he seems to have a lot of time on his hands these days. Did he get expelled or drop out or get fired? Nobody I know, including Kirk, who was also a cook up there, ever heard of him baking anything in the kitchen or practicing anything in the dome. Is there any evidence that he knows anything about yoga? He has been asking some pretty dumb questions about basic meditation practice. Apparently he gets off on insulting meditators. Go figure. Far from revealing any 'secrets of the mantras', we've had to educate him on basic kundalini yoga poses. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L In the early days, M apparently gave out only two mantras to TM teachers; those mantras were not the ones currently used, and this changed later to the current system. I suppose one would have to get someone who learned in the second half of the 1950s or a bit later, and who would also talk about it, to find out. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
only from the point of view of one who is afraid of it (truth that is) From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras You only see what you are looking for. Painting yourself as a courageous seeker of the truth is ludicrous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
how do you know what the Old Fraud did in his meditation? From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Jamie Vollmer was my initiator and I believe he still live in Fairfield if you want my bona fides, as to Kirk I don't remember anyone by that name in kitchen services - I was there from August of 1985 - July of 1987. And yes I am stupid for continuing to respond to your inanities. From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras srijau: you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore. He seems to be kind of weird for someone who claims to have got more than one bija mantra from MMY or his other teachers. I wonder where he got the other 'mantras', and why? He doesn't seem to have done well in school and he seems to have a lot of time on his hands these days. Did he get expelled or drop out or get fired? Nobody I know, including Kirk, who was also a cook up there, ever heard of him baking anything in the kitchen or practicing anything in the dome. Is there any evidence that he knows anything about yoga? He has been asking some pretty dumb questions about basic meditation practice. Apparently he gets off on insulting meditators. Go figure. Far from revealing any 'secrets of the mantras', we've had to educate him on basic kundalini yoga poses. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
God damn! How many times do I have to say it - I was on STAFF at MIU, I was never a student. I never sought any degree at MIU never ever. From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Michael Jackson: I was a real TM true believer... Yes, I hate the admin of my old school, and some of the teachers, but I got out of them what I needed and pretty much ignored the rest. But, you don't make it clear if you were a student or not and what degree you were pursuing. I know it must be tough trying to work as a full-time baker and at the same time learning English, but I was trying to get a degree in IT while working as a fulltime janitor. Maybe you were a decent baker at that religious school up in Iowa, and maybe you did chant some nonsense gibberiesh syllables at night inside a pagoda -'mantras' - I don't know. Go figure. But, you don't seem to know very much about yoga for having been up there for two years doing baker-zen. Did you have any gurus up there? I used to know Robert Keith Wallace and his brother Peter at 433 and SIMS.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Its in the book - and of the 2 mantras this guy was given on the Rishikesh Beatles course to teach to everyone, one of them is the mantra I got at the TM center in 1974. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L In the early days, M apparently gave out only two mantras to TM teachers; those mantras were not the ones currently used, and this changed later to the current system. I suppose one would have to get someone who learned in the second half of the 1950s or a bit later, and who would also talk about it, to find out. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra. Late breaking news on the matter: (CNN) -- Nablusoss the senior meditator angrily condemned the alleged actions of the former meditators -- the meditators suspected in the speaking their mantras out loud -- and after calling the former meditators losers, the old and experienced meditator urged the former meditators to turn themselves in immediately to the course office. If you're alive, turn yourselves in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, the elder meditator said in front of reporters in a news conference outside his home.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
gosh I missed the turning yourself in part! I thought he wanted all of us executed. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra. Late breaking news on the matter: (CNN) -- Nablusoss the senior meditator angrily condemned the alleged actions of the former meditators -- the meditators suspected in the speaking their mantras out loud -- and after calling the former meditators losers, the old and experienced meditator urged the former meditators to turn themselves in immediately to the course office. If you're alive, turn yourselves in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, the elder meditator said in front of reporters in a news conference outside his home.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Lawson, couldn't they be having an internal dialogue and be witnessing it, not identifying with it, not being gripped by it? Something along those lines. From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras We all tell ourselves lies. Even fully enlightened people likely lie to themselves, but since they allegedly no longer have an internal dialogue, they can't catch their own lies because they appear to be intuitive truths. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
It's nothing to do with fear. It's a matter of realizing that truth has many sides to it. You have to look at the whole picture, which you are not doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: only from the point of view of one who is afraid of it (truth that is) From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  You only see what you are looking for. Painting yourself as a courageous seeker of the truth is ludicrous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àyou have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
I did dummy, that's why I saw the same stuff that Barry, Curtis, Sal and countless others saw - a balanced picture of Marshy and the TMO is a very seamy picture, and that is the truth. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras It's nothing to do with fear. It's a matter of realizing that truth has many sides to it. You have to look at the whole picture, which you are not doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: only from the point of view of one who is afraid of it (truth that is) From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  You only see what you are looking for. Painting yourself as a courageous seeker of the truth is ludicrous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
sparaig: Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. The mantras MMY wrote down were probably English transliterations; I doubt if MMY could write in Sanskrit script. the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Michael Jackson: Jamie Vollmer was my initiator and I believe he still live in Fairfield if you want my bona fides, as to Kirk I don't remember anyone by that name in kitchen services - I was there from August of 1985 - July of 1987. He was the cook, you idiot! LoL! And yes I am stupid for continuing to respond to your inanities. We just want the truth, MJ - it's your thread. So, what mantras did Jamie Vollmer give to you to meditate on? you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore. He seems to be kind of weird for someone who claims to have got more than one bija mantra from MMY or his other teachers. I wonder where he got the other 'mantras', and why? He doesn't seem to have done well in school and he seems to have a lot of time on his hands these days. Did he get expelled or drop out or get fired? Nobody I know, including Kirk, who was also a cook up there, ever heard of him baking anything in the kitchen or practicing anything in the dome. Is there any evidence that he knows anything about yoga? He has been asking some pretty dumb questions about basic meditation practice. Apparently he gets off on insulting meditators. Go figure. Far from revealing any 'secrets of the mantras', we've had to educate him on basic kundalini yoga poses. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
The real dummy is the one who does not know what words mean. Do you know what balanced means? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I did dummy, that's why I saw the same stuff that Barry, Curtis, Sal and countless others saw - a balanced picture of Marshy and the TMO is a very seamy picture, and that is the truth. From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  It's nothing to do with fear. It's a matter of realizing that truth has many sides to it. You have to look at the whole picture, which you are not doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: only from the point of view of one who is afraid of it (truth that is) From: feste37 feste37@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àYou only see what you are looking for. Painting yourself as a courageous seeker of the truth is ludicrous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Ãâàyou have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
The real dummy is the one who does not know what words mean. Do you know what balanced means? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I did dummy, that's why I saw the same stuff that Barry, Curtis, Sal and countless others saw - a balanced picture of Marshy and the TMO is a very seamy picture, and that is the truth. From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  It's nothing to do with fear. It's a matter of realizing that truth has many sides to it. You have to look at the whole picture, which you are not doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: only from the point of view of one who is afraid of it (truth that is) From: feste37 feste37@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àYou only see what you are looking for. Painting yourself as a courageous seeker of the truth is ludicrous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Ãâàyou have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
The real dummy is the one who does not know what words mean. Do you know what balanced means? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I did dummy, that's why I saw the same stuff that Barry, Curtis, Sal and countless others saw - a balanced picture of Marshy and the TMO is a very seamy picture, and that is the truth. From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  It's nothing to do with fear. It's a matter of realizing that truth has many sides to it. You have to look at the whole picture, which you are not doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: only from the point of view of one who is afraid of it (truth that is) From: feste37 feste37@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àYou only see what you are looking for. Painting yourself as a courageous seeker of the truth is ludicrous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Ãâàyou have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Oh gawd! I can see this is going to be a palms to eyes day on FFL. Michael, you did not do TTC, correct? I don't think you've ever claimed to but you've probably got folks like me who did rolling on the floor laughing. Out of respect I won't say why. However, gurus write down mantras all the time. It is the personal practice of meditation not just in TM but other paths as well where you are not supposed to give out your personal mantra even if the guru gives out the same one to everybody. But then by logic you might ask what happens if someone becomes a TM teacher and in the process doesn't have an advanced technique (and probably why MMY gave them out on TTCs) but just the first technique? On 04/22/2013 04:10 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: srijau: you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore. He seems to be kind of weird for someone who claims to have got more than one bija mantra from MMY or his other teachers. I wonder where he got the other 'mantras', and why? He doesn't seem to have done well in school and he seems to have a lot of time on his hands these days. Did he get expelled or drop out or get fired? Nobody I know, including Kirk, who was also a cook up there, ever heard of him baking anything in the kitchen or practicing anything in the dome. Perhaps MJ wasn't even there ever. Would fit in with the rest of his confused claims.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Late breaking news on the matter: (CNN) -- Nablusoss the senior meditator angrily condemned the alleged actions of the former meditators -- the meditators suspected in the speaking their mantras out loud -- and after calling the former meditators losers, the old and experienced meditator urged the former meditators to turn themselves in immediately to the course office. If you're alive, turn yourselves in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, the elder meditator said in front of reporters in a news conference outside his home. Not a bad idea :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
On 04/22/2013 08:02 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: sparaig: Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. The mantras MMY wrote down were probably English transliterations; I doubt if MMY could write in Sanskrit script. Oh gawd, Willy! (Palms to eyes). Devanagari script is used all over India for Hindi! It uses some additional characters for f and z which are sounds that are not in Sanskrit. For Maharishi not to read and write Devanagari would be like an American not knowing how to use toilet paper. There are signs in Devanagari all over India that spell out English words! I think you just stepped in bull dung and are spreading it around with your cowboy boots.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
dear noozguru, so sorry for my part in the palms to eyes day in Funny Farm Lounge (-: But I have to tell you that when I read your first line here I laughed so hard that MY eyes started leaking tears. Anyway, solider on. Are your guests gone? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Oh gawd! I can see this is going to be a palms to eyes day on FFL. Michael, you did not do TTC, correct? I don't think you've ever claimed to but you've probably got folks like me who did rolling on the floor laughing. Out of respect I won't say why. However, gurus write down mantras all the time. It is the personal practice of meditation not just in TM but other paths as well where you are not supposed to give out your personal mantra even if the guru gives out the same one to everybody. But then by logic you might ask what happens if someone becomes a TM teacher and in the process doesn't have an advanced technique (and probably why MMY gave them out on TTCs) but just the first technique? On 04/22/2013 04:10 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
As per tradition, most likely a guru mantra from Brahmananda Saraswati. Guru mantras are not necessarily secret either but more like an advanced technique given to initiates of a path with the initiate not to be confused with the more loose meaning of the term for TM initiator where TM meditation teacher would be more correct. On 04/22/2013 07:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: how do you know what the Old Fraud did in his meditation? From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
no i never did TTC and had always been told not to write down or speak the mantra - so the info in the Secrets of the Mantras as new to me From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Oh gawd! I can see this is going to be a palms to eyes day on FFL. Michael, you did not do TTC, correct? I don't think you've ever claimed to but you've probably got folks like me who did rolling on the floor laughing. Out of respect I won't say why. However, gurus write down mantras all the time. It is the personal practice of meditation not just in TM but other paths as well where you are not supposed to give out your personal mantra even if the guru gives out the same one to everybody. But then by logic you might ask what happens if someone becomes a TM teacher and in the process doesn't have an advanced technique (and probably why MMY gave them out on TTCs) but just the first technique? On 04/22/2013 04:10 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Richy and his buddy Kirk have their time frames mixed up - there was no Kirk there as cook when I was there, and I was there. Ask Peter Ligotti who I believe still lives in Fairfield. Peter was one of the cooks when I first started, as was Avraham Geron, Edmund Cotton and David Shapiro. After those guys left in the second year, Bill Sporrer from South Dakota, Bob from Hawaii, and Eric Bullard from Oregon who become head cook, there was a Philip from Los Angeles and one or two others, a short guy named Jim I think. But no Kirk - unless it was a tall smooth talking guy who was there just for a few months - he was a real nasty bastard that made most people mad, especially Bill Sporrer who nearly beat his ass on a couple occasions. The nasty guy left and we heard he was living in town making big money selling these water purifiers - some guys who knew him well said he was selling weed along with the water purifiers. Give it up, Richy, I got names, dates and events - you got nothing but a big mouth and a warped mind. As to your constant mocking of the fact that I used to do TM, yeah, I did do it. And I stopped. End of story. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:10 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: srijau: you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore. He seems to be kind of weird for someone who claims to have got more than one bija mantra from MMY or his other teachers. I wonder where he got the other 'mantras', and why? He doesn't seem to have done well in school and he seems to have a lot of time on his hands these days. Did he get expelled or drop out or get fired? Nobody I know, including Kirk, who was also a cook up there, ever heard of him baking anything in the kitchen or practicing anything in the dome. Perhaps MJ wasn't even there ever. Would fit in with the rest of his confused claims.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Michael Jackson: Give it up, Richy, I got names, dates and events... Nobody I know up there ever heard of a 'Michael Jackson' being a 'baker', student, or anything else. Apparently nobody on this list ever heard of Michael Jackson ever even being in Fairfield. Go figure. you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore. He seems to be kind of weird for someone who claims to have got more than one bija mantra from MMY or his other teachers. I wonder where he got the other 'mantras', and why? He doesn't seem to have done well in school and he seems to have a lot of time on his hands these days. Did he get expelled or drop out or get fired? Nobody I know, including Kirk, who was also a cook up there, ever heard of him baking anything in the kitchen or practicing anything in the dome. Perhaps MJ wasn't even there ever. Would fit in with the rest of his confused claims.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. The mantras MMY wrote down were probably English transliterations; I doubt if MMY could write in Sanskrit script. Bhairitu: Devanagari script is used all over India for Hindi! It uses some additional characters for f and z which are sounds that are not in Sanskrit. For Maharishi not to read and write Devanagari would be like an American not knowing how to use toilet paper. There are signs in Devanagari all over India that spell out English words! I think you just stepped in bull dung and are spreading it around with your cowboy boots. Well, I have seen zero evidence that MMY could read and write Sanskrit bija mantras. If he could, why would he need an English transliteration? Or, why would he have Vernon Katz compose the Sanskrit portions of the BG? From what I've read, there is not a single person on in this list that could identify their bija mantra on any tantric yantra or mandala, or from flash cards of the Sanskrit alphabet, except maybe 'OM or Om Mani Padme Hum. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
On 04/22/2013 11:14 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. The mantras MMY wrote down were probably English transliterations; I doubt if MMY could write in Sanskrit script. Bhairitu: Devanagari script is used all over India for Hindi! It uses some additional characters for f and z which are sounds that are not in Sanskrit. For Maharishi not to read and write Devanagari would be like an American not knowing how to use toilet paper. There are signs in Devanagari all over India that spell out English words! I think you just stepped in bull dung and are spreading it around with your cowboy boots. Well, I have seen zero evidence that MMY could read and write Sanskrit bija mantras. If he could, why would he need an English transliteration? Or, why would he have Vernon Katz compose the Sanskrit portions of the BG? It would have been superfluous for Maharishi to sit there and real time transliterate and translate from Sanskrit. With a western audience the transliterations are more efficient. And transliterations are tricky because which English dialect are you going to use? The puja pages were written for US English speakers not British. Many early transliterations are more for British English as a dialect. I even had my tantra guru write mantras in Devanagari because transliterations can be tricky. From what I've read, there is not a single person on in this list that could identify their bija mantra on any tantric yantra or mandala, or from flash cards of the Sanskrit alphabet, except maybe 'OM or Om Mani Padme Hum. Go figure. Oh come on! Card is a lay Sanskrit enthusiast. He should be at least able to read Devanagari. I can read it. The American Sanskrit Institute has courses that teach you to read it in a weekend. Sanskrit appears to be an engineered language and logical. It's not a mongrel language like English which even has some Sanskrit roots. Korean is an engineered language called the morning language because you could learn the characters in a morning. The world at some point, if humanity survives, should hold a congress and authorize a group of linguists to create a new language for the Internet age that is logical and easy to learn. There will be resistance due to nationalism but there's nothing wrong with knowing at least two languages and eventually the new language would take over. Stop being such a hick! You're giving Texans a bad name (my uncle lived in Lubbock).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
You misunderstand. I am asking why you think it relevant that MMY wrote down a mantra. The theoretical concern is about the person using that mantra writing it down or speaking it out loud once it is learned. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Its in the book - and of the 2 mantras this guy was given on the Rishikesh Beatles course to teach to everyone, one of them is the mantra I got at the TM center in 1974. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L In the early days, M apparently gave out only two mantras to TM teachers; those mantras were not the ones currently used, and this changed later to the current system. I suppose one would have to get someone who learned in the second half of the 1950s or a bit later, and who would also talk about it, to find out. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àIn TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Sure. My point is that just because some theoretical state of consciousness brings with it total honesty, doesn't mean that that is really the case. I can conceive of situations where one might be fully enlightened according to some aspect of the TM definition, and still be fooling themselves. Of course, if you define enlightenment as never fooling yourself, then this doesn't make sense. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Lawson, couldn't they be having an internal dialogue and be witnessing it, not identifying with it, not being gripped by it? Something along those lines. From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  We all tell ourselves lies. Even fully enlightened people likely lie to themselves, but since they allegedly no longer have an internal dialogue, they can't catch their own lies because they appear to be intuitive truths. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I am simply unafraid of the truth. But you like most extremists can't stand the truth. I was a real TM true believer and became unafraid to look clearly with no blinders on at Marshy, TMO and TM itself. I didn't like what I found, but dealing with the truth is better than continuing to tell myself lies. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras àyou have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
I always thought that TM initiator was a far more accurate term. By definition, other than a mantra, you don't really learn anything from them. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: As per tradition, most likely a guru mantra from Brahmananda Saraswati. Guru mantras are not necessarily secret either but more like an advanced technique given to initiates of a path with the initiate not to be confused with the more loose meaning of the term for TM initiator where TM meditation teacher would be more correct. On 04/22/2013 07:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: how do you know what the Old Fraud did in his meditation? From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras à In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
No, because in terms of what an initiation is in Indian philosophy and yoga they do not initiate. You are initiated into a path and TM teachers don't do that. They only teach a TM technique. For instance as a Sidh Tantric in the Kali Sadhaka tradition I can only teach a meditation technique and perform some siddhis including some healing techniques. But I CANNOT initiate anyone into the tradition. That is for an Tantra Acharya. In fact some of the controversy over Maharishi from other yogis is often that he was not an acharya of the Shankaracharya tradition. On 04/22/2013 12:52 PM, sparaig wrote: I always thought that TM initiator was a far more accurate term. By definition, other than a mantra, you don't really learn anything from them. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: As per tradition, most likely a guru mantra from Brahmananda Saraswati. Guru mantras are not necessarily secret either but more like an advanced technique given to initiates of a path with the initiate not to be confused with the more loose meaning of the term for TM initiator where TM meditation teacher would be more correct. On 04/22/2013 07:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: how do you know what the Old Fraud did in his meditation? From: sparaig LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras  In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Well, in which case, since the TM teacher neither initiates nor teaches, I guess no label applies at all. Regardless, the TM guys and gals do their best, whatever it is they do (or don't do). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: No, because in terms of what an initiation is in Indian philosophy and yoga they do not initiate. You are initiated into a path and TM teachers don't do that. They only teach a TM technique. For instance as a Sidh Tantric in the Kali Sadhaka tradition I can only teach a meditation technique and perform some siddhis including some healing techniques. But I CANNOT initiate anyone into the tradition. That is for an Tantra Acharya. In fact some of the controversy over Maharishi from other yogis is often that he was not an acharya of the Shankaracharya tradition. On 04/22/2013 12:52 PM, sparaig wrote: I always thought that TM initiator was a far more accurate term. By definition, other than a mantra, you don't really learn anything from them. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: As per tradition, most likely a guru mantra from Brahmananda Saraswati. Guru mantras are not necessarily secret either but more like an advanced technique given to initiates of a path with the initiate not to be confused with the more loose meaning of the term for TM initiator where TM meditation teacher would be more correct. On 04/22/2013 07:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: how do you know what the Old Fraud did in his meditation? From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras Since MMY likely wasn't using those mantras in his meditation practice, I don't understand why you think this is relevant. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: the guy who wrote the books says that when he was made a teacher on the Rishikesh course (yeah the one with the Beatles) Marshy wrote the 2 mantras the guy was supposed to teach on a pad of paper with the ages that were appropriate - under 13 years of age, one for over 13 I guess since Marshy was enlightened it was ok for him to write the mantras down From: sparaig LEnglish5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras à In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Bhairitu: I even had my tantra guru write mantras in Devanagari because transliterations can be tricky. From what I've read, there is not a single person on in this list that could identify their bija mantra on any tantric yantra or mandala, or from flash cards of the Sanskrit alphabet, except maybe 'OM or Om Mani Padme Hum. Go figure. Oh come on! Card is a lay Sanskrit enthusiast. He should be at least able to read Devanagari. I can read it. Look, Bhairitu - this is not rocket science. Just post the Sanskrit bija of Saraswati so I can see it; or post a link to it. Apparently this is a problem for you, if all you have are transliterations of bijas. How do you know you're using the right bija - are you just going to take the word of your guru? There must be some kind of scriptural reference to what you are doing. It doesn't say anywhere in the BG or in the YS to meditate on bija mantras. There are no bijas listed in the Vedas. So, where EXACTLY, do the bijas come from? http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/bija_mantra.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
In TM theory, it isn't that mantras are kept secret for the sake of a secret,, but because the process of meditation and the process of speaking the mantra aloud or writing it down, are contrary to one another. There's even a physiological explanation that might explain why this is so. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 04/21/2013 01:14 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. :-D Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
Just got off the phone with one of my old TM friends in North Carolina - he just finished reading the Secret of the Mantras - if what he told me was accurate I don't see how one could read the book and not see what a damned old fraud Marshy was Bhairitu: I recall when I came back from TTC I bought a book on the Vedas that had recently been published. There are no bija mantras listed in the Rig Veda. That's because bija mantra usage came much later, during the Gupta period of Indian history after tantra was brought to South India from Kashmere. In the book I found the list of many of the beej mantras used in TM with the statement that many Indians recite these mantras before having sex. All the TM bija mantras come from the Sri Vidya tradition in Karnataka. Not all adherents practice left-handed baula-tantra. Mantras in general are not secret at all. However one given my a guru is generally kept secret because of the belief that it will weaken the effect of the mantra for the practitioner if they give it out. This is true even if the guru gives everyone the same mantra. A mantra can be anything your guru says it is. http://www.sacred-texts.com/tantra/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Secrets of the Mantras
you have shown time and again here that you use any occasion to make the most extremist statement, and a good deal of plain nonsense too. So I doubt any careful observer cares much anymore.
