subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Re\: Victory Beef or War\?"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/5/06 2:59 AM, cardemaister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   http://www.whatfilms.com/vbw/index2.php
 
 Pretty cool. Very professionally put together. I wonder who did 
it? Now if
 only they could get rid of all the insane stuff which scares 
people away
 once they scratch beneath the surface, this could take off. The 
problem as I
 see it is that those running the movement have no choice but to 
adhere to
 the following logic:
 
 1. Maharishi is enlightened.
 2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the truth, 
even though
 I and the world at large may not understand it.
 3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
told to do).
 4. Therefore, on the one hand, I¹ll present the scientifically 
proven
 benefits of TM and hope that the people I¹m presenting them to 
don¹t find
 out about Rajas, Majesties, World¹s Tallest Buildings, Damn 
Democracy,
 Praise Robert Mugabe, destroy and rebuild the world¹s cities, etc.,



I know you put in etc. but you forgot my favourites:

- America is the cause of all the wrong in the world;

- Israel is murderers

- The CIA infiltrated the TMO

- Weighing Nader in gold.





 until
 they are as ³sold out² as I am.
 
 Hopefully, after Maharishi dies, people will be able to break away 
from this
 ³logic² and make the TMO as sensible on every level as it appears 
in movies
 like this. Don¹t hold your breath.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/5/06 2:59 AM, cardemaister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
http://www.whatfilms.com/vbw/index2.php
  
  Pretty cool. Very professionally put together. I wonder who did 
 it? Now if
  only they could get rid of all the insane stuff which scares 
 people away
  once they scratch beneath the surface, this could take off. The 
 problem as I
  see it is that those running the movement have no choice but to 
 adhere to
  the following logic:
  
  1. Maharishi is enlightened.
  2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the truth, 
 even though
  I and the world at large may not understand it.
  3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
 told to do).
  4. Therefore, on the one hand, I¹ll present the scientifically 
 proven
  benefits of TM and hope that the people I¹m presenting them to 
 don¹t find
  out about Rajas, Majesties, World¹s Tallest Buildings, Damn 
 Democracy,
  Praise Robert Mugabe, destroy and rebuild the world¹s cities, 
 etc., until
  they are as ³sold out² as I am.
  
 It must be like balancing on an edge for the recert.Teacher. Do 
they 
 have to tell about the Majesties in the first TM-lecture and 
present 
 the Raja in their country later on - or do they try to hide it as 
 long as possible. For us the Independent TM-Teacher, it is quite 
 easy, we can laugh it away, telling that we are not a part of that 
 nonsens.
 Ingegerd



Thankfully the recerts (why do I think of Blade Runner and other 
science-fiction every time I hear the term recerts?) won't have to 
worry to much about it because no one is beating down their doors to 
get to TM.

Gee, I wonder how many initiations have been done in the USA since 
the recert course...20?  30?  Hmm.










To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
snip
 The problem as I see it is that those running the movement have no 
 choice but to adhere to the following logic:
  
  1. Maharishi is enlightened.
  2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the truth, 
  even though I and the world at large may not understand it.
  3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
  told to do).
snip 
 I agree that Maharishi is enlightened, however about five years  
 after I started TM I read his commentary on the BG, chaps. 1-6 and 
 his SBAL books, and in there he clearly says directly that in order 
 to gain enlightenment most efficiently for ourselves we should do 
 *our* own dharma, although someone else's may seem very attractive.

Not only that, but the notion that everything he
thinks and says expresses the truth is not at all
consistent with his teaching, if by truth you mean
*relative* truth, at least as I understand him.

He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
*reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.

Unfathomable is the course of action.  That covers
a lot of territory, and I think as TMers we often
don't realize its implications.

As I see it, Nature could very well, for some reason
known only to Nature, want the enlightened person
to do something *wrong*, in relative terms--make a
mistake.  This would *not* be a mistake in Nature's
terms, so it doesn't contradict the notion that the
enlightened person never makes a mistake.  It's just
to point out that we may misunderstand what mistake
refers to.

Moreover, the enlightened person would have no idea
he was making the mistake.

Why would Nature do such a thing?  It seems to me one
plausible reason (although we can never tell for sure)
would be to create cognitive dissonance in the minds of
those who are too blindly accepting of what the
enlightened person says and does, to prod followers
to start thinking for themselves and, as Jim says,
doing their own dharma--and, perhaps, acquiring a
clearer understanding of what no mistakes means in
relation to enlightenment.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread Rick Archer

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

on 8/5/06 11:34 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

As I see it, Nature could very well, for some reason
known only to Nature, want the enlightened person
to do something *wrong*, in relative terms--make a
mistake. This would *not* be a mistake in Nature's
terms, so it doesn't contradict the notion that the
enlightened person never makes a mistake. It's just
to point out that we may misunderstand what mistake
refers to.

Moreover, the enlightened person would have no idea
he was making the mistake.

Why would Nature do such a thing? It seems to me one
plausible reason (although we can never tell for sure)
would be to create cognitive dissonance in the minds of
those who are too blindly accepting of what the
enlightened person says and does, to prod followers
to start thinking for themselves and, as Jim says,
doing their own dharma--and, perhaps, acquiring a
clearer understanding of what no mistakes means in
relation to enlightenment.

Could be. Nice way to look at it. But thats not how the TMO operates. The TMO adheres to its own version of Papal Infallibility.

__._,_.___

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/5/06 2:59 AM, cardemaister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
http://www.whatfilms.com/vbw/index2.php
  
  Pretty cool. Very professionally put together. I wonder who did 
 it? Now if
  only they could get rid of all the insane stuff which scares 
 people away
  once they scratch beneath the surface, this could take off. The 
 problem as I
  see it is that those running the movement have no choice but to 
 adhere to
  the following logic:
  
  1. Maharishi is enlightened.
  2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the truth, 
 even though
  I and the world at large may not understand it.
  3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
 told to do).
  4. Therefore, on the one hand, I¹ll present the scientifically 
 proven
  benefits of TM and hope that the people I¹m presenting them to 
 don¹t find
  out about Rajas, Majesties, World¹s Tallest Buildings, Damn 
 Democracy,
  Praise Robert Mugabe, destroy and rebuild the world¹s cities, 
 etc., until
  they are as ³sold out² as I am.
  
  Hopefully, after Maharishi dies, people will be able to break 
away 
 from this
  ³logic² and make the TMO as sensible on every level as it 
appears 
 in movies
  like this. Don¹t hold your breath.
 
 
 I agree that Maharishi is enlightened, however about five years  
 after I started TM I read his commentary on the BG, chaps. 1-6 and 
 his SBAL books, and in there he clearly says directly that in 
order 
 to gain enlightenment most efficiently for ourselves we should do 
 *our* own dharma, although someone else's may seem very attractive.
 
 BG, Chapter 3, v.35-
 Because one can perform it, one's own dharma, (though) lesser in 
 merit, is better than the dharma of another. Better is death in 
 one's own dharma: the dharma of another brings great danger. 
 
 I remember when I thought I wanted to become a TM teacher and 
being 
 faced with the question of being myself and accepting the process 
 [of TTC] through who I knew myself to be, and it didn't fit.


Boy, I wished someone had said that to me before I sent to TTC.



 Same 
 with many of the things Maharishi has brought out. I learned to 
 understand his thinking by listening to hundreds of hours of his 
 tapes, and the way he arranges the sequence of his thoughts vs. 
 cherry picking the things he says for their possible cognitive 
 dissonance.
 
 By both always remembering who I am and where I am in terms of 
what 
 I am working towards, and by not selling out to the specifics of 
 everything that comes from the TMO, I am able to recognize 
 Maharishi's enlightenment, while living my own life as I see fit. 
My 
 life, my Dharma.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
 snip
  The problem as I see it is that those running the movement have 
no 
  choice but to adhere to the following logic:
   
   1. Maharishi is enlightened.
   2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the 
truth, 
   even though I and the world at large may not understand it.
   3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
   told to do).
 snip 
  I agree that Maharishi is enlightened, however about five years  
  after I started TM I read his commentary on the BG, chaps. 1-6 
and 
  his SBAL books, and in there he clearly says directly that in 
order 
  to gain enlightenment most efficiently for ourselves we should 
do 
  *our* own dharma, although someone else's may seem very 
attractive.
 
 Not only that, but the notion that everything he
 thinks and says expresses the truth is not at all
 consistent with his teaching, if by truth you mean
 *relative* truth, at least as I understand him.
 
 He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
 enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
 but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
 *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
 that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.


Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon 
as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity 
from himself.



 
 Unfathomable is the course of action.  That covers
 a lot of territory, and I think as TMers we often
 don't realize its implications.
 
 As I see it, Nature could very well, for some reason
 known only to Nature, want the enlightened person
 to do something *wrong*, in relative terms--make a
 mistake.  This would *not* be a mistake in Nature's
 terms, so it doesn't contradict the notion that the
 enlightened person never makes a mistake.  It's just
 to point out that we may misunderstand what mistake
 refers to.
 
 Moreover, the enlightened person would have no idea
 he was making the mistake.
 
 Why would Nature do such a thing?  It seems to me one
 plausible reason (although we can never tell for sure)
 would be to create cognitive dissonance in the minds of
 those who are too blindly accepting of what the
 enlightened person says and does, to prod followers
 to start thinking for themselves and, as Jim says,
 doing their own dharma--and, perhaps, acquiring a
 clearer understanding of what no mistakes means in
 relation to enlightenment.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread Rick Archer

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?





on 8/5/06 12:01 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
 enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
 but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
 *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
 that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.

Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon 
as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity 
from himself.

Sir Edmond Hillary spoke in similar terms about how he felt during his final ascent of Everest, severely sleep and oxygen deprived.


__._,_.___





To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'








   



  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



  Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  






__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
snip
  He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
  enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
  but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
  *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
  that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
 
 Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon 
 as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity 
 from himself.

Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
different things.








To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/5/06 12:01 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
   enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
   but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
   *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
   that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
  
  Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon
  as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity
  from himself.
  
 Sir Edmond Hillary spoke in similar terms about how he felt during 
his final
 ascent of Everest, severely sleep and oxygen deprived.



A friend of mine -- a former TM teacher -- said that he read somewhere 
that witnessing is how Osama Bin Laden experienceed an assassination 
attempt...it was a religious experience to him and it changed his life.






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
  wrote:
 snip
   He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
   enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
   but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
   *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
   that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
  
  Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John 
Lennon 
  as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate 
entity 
  from himself.
 
 Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
 may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
 different things.


You should know.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread jim_flanegin

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
 snip
  The problem as I see it is that those running the movement have 
no 
  choice but to adhere to the following logic:
   
   1. Maharishi is enlightened.
   2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the 
truth, 
   even though I and the world at large may not understand it.
   3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
   told to do).
 snip 
  I agree that Maharishi is enlightened, however about five years  
  after I started TM I read his commentary on the BG, chaps. 1-6 
and 
  his SBAL books, and in there he clearly says directly that in 
order 
  to gain enlightenment most efficiently for ourselves we should 
do 
  *our* own dharma, although someone else's may seem very 
attractive.
 
 Not only that, but the notion that everything he
 thinks and says expresses the truth is not at all
 consistent with his teaching, if by truth you mean
 *relative* truth, at least as I understand him.
 
 He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
 enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
 but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
 *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
 that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
 
 Unfathomable is the course of action.  That covers
 a lot of territory, and I think as TMers we often
 don't realize its implications.
 
 As I see it, Nature could very well, for some reason
 known only to Nature, want the enlightened person
 to do something *wrong*, in relative terms--make a
 mistake.  This would *not* be a mistake in Nature's
 terms, so it doesn't contradict the notion that the
 enlightened person never makes a mistake.  It's just
 to point out that we may misunderstand what mistake
 refers to.
 
 Moreover, the enlightened person would have no idea
 he was making the mistake.
 
 Why would Nature do such a thing?  It seems to me one
 plausible reason (although we can never tell for sure)
 would be to create cognitive dissonance in the minds of
 those who are too blindly accepting of what the
 enlightened person says and does, to prod followers
 to start thinking for themselves and, as Jim says,
 doing their own dharma--and, perhaps, acquiring a
 clearer understanding of what no mistakes means in
 relation to enlightenment.

The thing to keep in mind in all of this is that it is *we* who are 
wanting to gain Self Realization, not the person who we are 
following. Therefore it is important at a certain stage of seeking, 
when we know all of the key information cold, to begin to apply it 
to ourselves, evaluating and discriminating. The BG says this is the 
way to enlighten the mind. And by applying it through action, we 
enlighten the heart.

The enlightened person acts in perfect accord with Nature. But, 
those who are unenlightened, who have not yet fully gained Self 
Realization will not see this. It is only fully comprehensible from 
the perspective of another who has gained permanent Self Realization.

So, if it is we who are attempting to gain perfect accord with 
Nature through Self Realization, then we should learn to follow our 
own path to get there, not someone elses.

I remember many, many times when I just felt compelled to do things 
that were 'verbotten' under TMO 'law', such as eat meat, or smoke a 
cigarette. 

Just had to. Couldn't get past it by going over it or under it. Had 
to face it, and do it. And by carefully integrating my dharma with 
what I had been taught, the goal was reached. 

NOT that I am advocating smoking or a non-vegetarian diet...that was 
something personal just for me.






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/5/06 2:59 AM, cardemaister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
http://www.whatfilms.com/vbw/index2.php
  
  Pretty cool. Very professionally put together. I wonder who did 
 it? Now if
  only they could get rid of all the insane stuff which scares 
 people away
  once they scratch beneath the surface, this could take off. The 
 problem as I
  see it is that those running the movement have no choice but to 
 adhere to
  the following logic:
  
  1. Maharishi is enlightened.
  2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the truth, 
 even though
  I and the world at large may not understand it.
  3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
 told to do).
  4. Therefore, on the one hand, I¹ll present the scientifically 
 proven
  benefits of TM and hope that the people I¹m presenting them to 
 don¹t find
  out about Rajas, Majesties, World¹s Tallest Buildings, Damn 
 Democracy,
  Praise Robert Mugabe, destroy and rebuild the world¹s cities, 
 etc., until
  they are as ³sold out² as I am.
  
  Hopefully, after Maharishi dies, people will be able to break away 
 from this
  ³logic² and make the TMO as sensible on every level as it appears 
 in movies
  like this. Don¹t hold your breath.
 
 
 I agree that Maharishi is enlightened, however about five years  
 after I started TM I read his commentary on the BG, chaps. 1-6 and 
 his SBAL books, and in there he clearly says directly that in order 
 to gain enlightenment most efficiently for ourselves we should do 
 *our* own dharma, although someone else's may seem very attractive.
 
 BG, Chapter 3, v.35-
 Because one can perform it, one's own dharma, (though) lesser in 
 merit, is better than the dharma of another. Better is death in 
 one's own dharma: the dharma of another brings great danger. 
 
 I remember when I thought I wanted to become a TM teacher and being 
 faced with the question of being myself and accepting the process 
 [of TTC] through who I knew myself to be, and it didn't fit. Same 
 with many of the things Maharishi has brought out. I learned to 
 understand his thinking by listening to hundreds of hours of his 
 tapes, and the way he arranges the sequence of his thoughts vs. 
 cherry picking the things he says for their possible cognitive 
 dissonance.
 
 By both always remembering who I am and where I am in terms of what 
 I am working towards, and by not selling out to the specifics of 
 everything that comes from the TMO, I am able to recognize 
 Maharishi's enlightenment, while living my own life as I see fit. My 
 life, my Dharma.



IIRC, he also says that the practice of TM is the ultimate dharma, suitable for 
everyone...





To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/5/06 2:59 AM, cardemaister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
http://www.whatfilms.com/vbw/index2.php
  
  Pretty cool. Very professionally put together. I wonder who did 
 it? Now if
  only they could get rid of all the insane stuff which scares 
 people away
  once they scratch beneath the surface, this could take off. The 
 problem as I
  see it is that those running the movement have no choice but to 
 adhere to
  the following logic:
  
  1. Maharishi is enlightened.
  2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the truth, 
 even though
  I and the world at large may not understand it.
  3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
 told to do).
  4. Therefore, on the one hand, I¹ll present the scientifically 
 proven
  benefits of TM and hope that the people I¹m presenting them to 
 don¹t find
  out about Rajas, Majesties, World¹s Tallest Buildings, Damn 
 Democracy,
  Praise Robert Mugabe, destroy and rebuild the world¹s cities, 
 etc., until
  they are as ³sold out² as I am.
  
 It must be like balancing on an edge for the recert.Teacher. Do they 
 have to tell about the Majesties in the first TM-lecture and present 
 the Raja in their country later on - or do they try to hide it as 
 long as possible. For us the Independent TM-Teacher, it is quite 
 easy, we can laugh it away, telling that we are not a part of that 
 nonsens.
 Ingegerd


And a recert can laugh it away also, explaining that its a silly  requirement 
that MMY came 
up with as a test of ego and dedication to the TM organization.

Those who can't see this are showing their own stripes, I think.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
 wrote:
  snip
   The problem as I see it is that those running the movement have 
 no 
   choice but to adhere to the following logic:

1. Maharishi is enlightened.
2. Therefore, everything he thinks and says expresses the 
 truth, 
even though I and the world at large may not understand it.
3. Therefore, I should stay in tune with his thinking (as I am 
told to do).
  snip 
   I agree that Maharishi is enlightened, however about five years  
   after I started TM I read his commentary on the BG, chaps. 1-6 
 and 
   his SBAL books, and in there he clearly says directly that in 
 order 
   to gain enlightenment most efficiently for ourselves we should 
 do 
   *our* own dharma, although someone else's may seem very 
 attractive.
  
  Not only that, but the notion that everything he
  thinks and says expresses the truth is not at all
  consistent with his teaching, if by truth you mean
  *relative* truth, at least as I understand him.
  
  He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
  enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
  but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
  *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
  that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
 
 
 Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon 
 as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity 
 from himself.

Derealization, a well-defined psychiatric disorder, oftimes due to childhood 
trauma which 
apparently can cause measureable brain dysfunction, which coincidentally is 
radically 
different than the brain function of someone in the TM witnessing state.

The witnessing-like phenomenon reported by the derealized person may SOUND like 
TM 
witnessing, but it apparently is not the same physical state or at least, the 
EEG studies 
show radically different states: the depersonalization people often show a 
marked 
imbalance of activity between the right and left hemispheres with the 
intellectual side 
dominating way more than normal, because the other side shows a lack of 
emotional/
intuitive development. 

Coincidentally, long-term practitioners of certain meditation techniques also 
report 
witnessing and they show the same dominance imballance, although the emotional/
intuitive side of the brain is not dysfunctional --the intellectual side is 
merely hyperactive.








To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
  wrote:
 snip
   He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
   enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
   but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
   *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
   that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
  
  Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon 
  as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity 
  from himself.
 
 Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
 may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
 different things.


As the physiological studies on dissociation/derealization/depersonalization 
are starting 
to show.






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
   wrote:
  snip
He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
*reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
   
   Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John 
 Lennon 
   as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate 
 entity 
   from himself.
  
  Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
  may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
  different things.
 
 
 You should know.


In fact, she's already stated that she has had both experiences...






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/5/06 12:01 PM, shempmcgurk at shempmcgurk@ wrote:

He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
*reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
   
   Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon
   as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity
   from himself.
   
  Sir Edmond Hillary spoke in similar terms about how he felt during 
 his final
  ascent of Everest, severely sleep and oxygen deprived.
 
 
 
 A friend of mine -- a former TM teacher -- said that he read somewhere 
 that witnessing is how Osama Bin Laden experienceed an assassination 
 attempt...it was a religious experience to him and it changed his life.


Dysfunctional people see the oddest things as signs of religious experience...

http://google.scholar.com keywords dissociation EEG

http://tinyurl.com/g9upd

Abstract: 
In this study, we explored whether individual differences in dissociation are 
related to 
certain resting electroencephalographic (EEG) parameters. Baseline EEG with 
eyes open and 
closed was recorded in an undergraduate sample (N = 67). Cortical power in the 
[alpha] 
range was inversely related to dissociative symptoms as measured by the 
Dissociative 
Experiences Scale, while both [delta] and [theta] power where positively 
related to 
dissociation. However, sleep experiences, as indexed with the Iowa Sleep 
Experiences 
Survey, were unrelated to resting EEG characteristics. We propose that 
suppression in the 
[alpha] band and raised levels of [theta] activity, which are typical for high 
dissociators, 
might help to explain why dissociative symptoms are accompanied by attentional 
and 
memory deficits.








To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread Marek Reavis

Comment below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
  wrote:
 snip
   He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
   enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
   but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
   *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
   that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
  
  Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon 
  as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity 
  from himself.
 
 Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
 may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
 different things.

**END**

I don't feel that's necessarily so.  It's not implausible that certain
individuals have clear experiences of transcendence and witnessing,
but without the philosophical grounding or preparation for what those
experiences are, and consequently their psychology can't handle it. 
If, for some reason, they have some pathology or violent tendencies
then they may act on them.  Certain drugs or drug combinations, or
even acting out behaviors well outside the norms and taboos of society
may serve as the stimulus.

Hannibal Lecter as a force of nature.






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
shempmcgurk@ 
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   snip
 He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
 enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
 but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
 *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
 that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.

Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John 
  Lennon 
as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate 
  entity 
from himself.
   
   Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
   may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
   different things.
  
  You should know.
 
 In fact, she's already stated that she has had both experiences...

Not sure I've done so here.  The dissociation 
experience was many years ago, before I started
TM, during an episode of clinical depression
(which, thank goodness, has never recurred).  It
was scary and unpleasant.  I felt fragmented and
scattered, as if I'd lost whatever it was that
gave me the sense of being a complete person.

Witnessing experiences that I've had since I've
been practicing TM have been characterized by
an enormous sense of *relief*, as if a great
burden has been lifted.  There has also been a
sense of wholeness, which is paradoxical
because the experience is one of *separation* of
Self and activity.

I'd never mistake one experience for the other.
They're simply of different orders.  One made
me feel less than myself, the other more than
myself, is another way of putting it.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis 
 reavismarek@ wrote:
 
  Comment below:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
 shempmcgurk@ 
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   snip
 He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
 enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
 but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
 *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
 that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.

Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John 
 Lennon 
as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate 
 entity 
from himself.
   
   Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
   may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
   different things.
  
  **END**
  
  I don't feel that's necessarily so.  It's not implausible that 
 certain
  individuals have clear experiences of transcendence and witnessing,
  but without the philosophical grounding or preparation for what 
 those
  experiences are, and consequently their psychology can't handle it.
 
 My first experience of witnessing was so unlike
 what I'd imagined from the descriptions of it that
 it took me quite a while to realize what was going
 on.  But it was a positive experience right from
 the start, before I knew what it was.
 
 I wouldn't suggest that witnessing might not be scary
 and unsettling for some people, but I'm *very*
 dubious that even for them it resembles pathological
 dissociation experientially, based on my own
 experiences of both states.
 
 

I think people are confusing unstressing with witnessing OUTSIDE of TM. While 
itwould 
certainly be possible that some major negative tendency could bubble up after 
transcending during TM, we're talking about witnessing during activity here. 
That's a 
whole different kettle of fish, I think. 

 
 
 
  
  If, for some reason, they have some pathology or violent tendencies
  then they may act on them.  Certain drugs or drug combinations, or
  even acting out behaviors well outside the norms and taboos of 
 society
  may serve as the stimulus.
  
  Hannibal Lecter as a force of nature.
 







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis 
  reavismarek@ wrote:
  
   Comment below:
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
  shempmcgurk@ 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
jstein@ 
 wrote:
snip
  He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
  enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
  but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
  *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
  that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
 
 Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting 
John 
  Lennon 
 as one where he was watching what he was doing as a 
separate 
  entity 
 from himself.

Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
different things.
   
   **END**
   
   I don't feel that's necessarily so.  It's not implausible that 
  certain
   individuals have clear experiences of transcendence and 
witnessing,
   but without the philosophical grounding or preparation for what 
  those
   experiences are, and consequently their psychology can't handle 
it.
  
  My first experience of witnessing was so unlike
  what I'd imagined from the descriptions of it that
  it took me quite a while to realize what was going
  on.  But it was a positive experience right from
  the start, before I knew what it was.
  
  I wouldn't suggest that witnessing might not be scary
  and unsettling for some people, but I'm *very*
  dubious that even for them it resembles pathological
  dissociation experientially, based on my own
  experiences of both states.
  
  
 
 I think people are confusing unstressing with witnessing OUTSIDE of 
TM. While itwould 
 certainly be possible that some major negative tendency could 
bubble up after 
 transcending during TM, we're talking about witnessing during 
activity here. That's a 
 whole different kettle of fish, I think.

But witnessing is, in effect, transcending during
activity.  So I should think that *could* trigger
unstressing during the witnessing experience itself.

In any event, it's a *novel* experience, and that
could conceivably unsettle some people.



   If, for some reason, they have some pathology or violent 
tendencies
   then they may act on them.  Certain drugs or drug combinations, 
or
   even acting out behaviors well outside the norms and taboos of 
  society
   may serve as the stimulus.
   
   Hannibal Lecter as a force of nature.
  
 







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis 
   reavismarek@ wrote:
   
Comment below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
   shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 jstein@ 
  wrote:
 snip
   He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
   enlightened person's actions are what Nature wants,
   but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
   *reason* why Nature wants him to do or say this or
   that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
  
  Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting 
 John 
   Lennon 
  as one where he was watching what he was doing as a 
 separate 
   entity 
  from himself.
 
 Pathological dissociation and witnessing a la TM
 may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
 different things.

**END**

I don't feel that's necessarily so.  It's not implausible that 
   certain
individuals have clear experiences of transcendence and 
 witnessing,
but without the philosophical grounding or preparation for what 
   those
experiences are, and consequently their psychology can't handle 
 it.
   
   My first experience of witnessing was so unlike
   what I'd imagined from the descriptions of it that
   it took me quite a while to realize what was going
   on.  But it was a positive experience right from
   the start, before I knew what it was.
   
   I wouldn't suggest that witnessing might not be scary
   and unsettling for some people, but I'm *very*
   dubious that even for them it resembles pathological
   dissociation experientially, based on my own
   experiences of both states.
   
   
  
  I think people are confusing unstressing with witnessing OUTSIDE of 
 TM. While itwould 
  certainly be possible that some major negative tendency could 
 bubble up after 
  transcending during TM, we're talking about witnessing during 
 activity here. That's a 
  whole different kettle of fish, I think.
 
 But witnessing is, in effect, transcending during
 activity.  So I should think that *could* trigger
 unstressing during the witnessing experience itself.

Perhaps, but the activity of the brain and body would tend to dampen down any 
unstressing episode. If you're active in the world, there's not much chance for 
reduced 
activity leading to enhanced repair. I think witnessing in activity is a RESULT 
of such 
repair/normalizatoin, not the cause of it.

 
 In any event, it's a *novel* experience, and that
 could conceivably unsettle some people.
 

Sure, but would they be unsettled to the point of committing violent acts 
DURING the 
episode? That is contradictory on its face. I tend to doubt that OBL had 
witnessing ala TM 
witnessing while he was killing someone. OBL comes off as a very fanatical, 
intolerant, 
violent and hateful person. Doesn't seem a likely candidate for being prone to 
witnessing 
ala TM.









To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread Jason Spock

What the hell do you mean, "Enlighten the mind".?? "By applying it through action we enlighten the heart".?? Could you quote exactly where Maharishi said this in his BG.?? You don't enlighten your mind or heart. You enlighten yourself. You trancend your mind. The Enlightened person acts in perfect accord with the
Total-natural-Law. Not Nature. There are 4 major paths. Karma-yoga, Bhakti-Yoga, Gyana-yoga and Hatha-yoga all explained in BG. For an intellectual entity, eating meat or smoking tobacco is against Total-natural-Law. You are crazy Jim bitch. What the hell is your dharma anyway.? jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:54:08 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?The thing to keep in mind in all of this is that it is *we* who are wanting to gain Self Realization, not the person who we are following. Therefore it is important at a certain stage of seeking, when we know all of the key information cold, to begin to apply it to ourselves, evaluating and discriminating. The BG says this is the way to enlighten the mind. And by applying it through action, we enlighten the heart.The enlightened person acts in perfect accord with Nature. But, those who are unenlightened, who have not yet fully gained Self Realization will not see this. It is only fully comprehensible from the perspective of another who has gained permanent Self Realization.So, if it is we who
are attempting to gain perfect accord with Nature through Self Realization, then we should learn to follow our own path to get there, not someone elses.I remember many, many times when I just felt compelled to do things that were 'verbotten' under TMO 'law', such as eat meat, or smoke a cigarette. Just had to. Couldn't get past it by going over it or under it. Had to face it, and do it. And by carefully integrating my dharma with what I had been taught, the goal was reached. NOT that I am advocating smoking or a non-vegetarian diet...that was something personal just for me.
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
__._,_.___

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread Marek Reavis

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

**SNIP**
 
 Everyone is a force of nature, by definition, . . ..

**END**

Yes, and Brahman alone is, behind all.  So, although I wasn't actually
suggesting that there are enlightened criminals, that does seem
possible to me.

But I do think that an unsettled psyche might nonetheless find access
to both transcending and witnessing, and, unprepared and unable to
incorporate That gracefully into their life, might flip out and
accomplish action that is criminal.  Don't see how witnessing, by
definition, would have anything to do with that.






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
   What the hell do you mean, Enlighten the mind.?? By 
applying it through action we enlighten the heart.??

   Could you quote exactly where Maharishi said this in his BG.??

   You don't enlighten your mind or heart.  You enlighten 
yourself.  You trancend your mind.

   The Enlightened person acts in perfect accord with the Total-
natural-Law.  Not Nature.

   There are 4 major paths.  Karma-yoga, Bhakti-Yoga, Gyana-yoga 
and Hatha-yoga all explained in BG.

   For an intellectual entity, eating meat or smoking tobacco is 
against Total-natural-Law.

   You are crazy Jim bitch.  What the hell is your dharma 
anyway.?

Enlighten the mind means: 'bring light to the mind', bring the mind 
to silence in transcendental consciousness.
Enlighten the heart means to 'bring light(attention) to the heart.
When the mind has quieted and the heart is felt, then you can make 
your own decisions, based on a clear mind(quite mind), and clear heart
(attunement to your soul);
Therefore at some point, the Guru is You.
The Guru points the way, and if you follow;
You find it for yourself, inside of you; 
The Kingdom of Heaven is Within, Jesus said.
In your own soul; in the illunination of the silent mind and soulful 
heart.
Therein lies your enlightenment, from inside yourself;
No longer on an outside force, whether it be Guru, TV, sex, or money 
or whatever, other, 
false god of the ego.
Enlightenment is an Inside Job.
R.G.
   
 
 jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:54:08 -
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?
 

   The thing to keep in mind in all of this is that it is *we* who 
are 
 wanting to gain Self Realization, not the person who we are 
 following. Therefore it is important at a certain stage of seeking, 
 when we know all of the key information cold, to begin to apply it 
 to ourselves, evaluating and discriminating. The BG says this is 
the 
 way to enlighten the mind. And by applying it through action, we 
 enlighten the heart.
 
 The enlightened person acts in perfect accord with Nature. But, 
 those who are unenlightened, who have not yet fully gained Self 
 Realization will not see this. It is only fully comprehensible from 
 the perspective of another who has gained permanent Self 
Realization.
 
 So, if it is we who are attempting to gain perfect accord with 
 Nature through Self Realization, then we should learn to follow our 
 own path to get there, not someone elses.
 
 I remember many, many times when I just felt compelled to do things 
 that were 'verbotten' under TMO 'law', such as eat meat, or smoke a 
 cigarette. 
 
 Just had to. Couldn't get past it by going over it or under it. Had 
 to face it, and do it. And by carefully integrating my dharma with 
 what I had been taught, the goal was reached. 
 
 NOT that I am advocating smoking or a non-vegetarian diet...that 
was 
 something personal just for me.


 
   
 -
 How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low  PC-to-Phone 
call rates.







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?

2006-08-05 Thread jim_flanegin

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
   What the hell do you mean, Enlighten the mind.?? By 
applying it through action we enlighten the heart.??

   Could you quote exactly where Maharishi said this in his 
BG.??

   You don't enlighten your mind or heart.  You enlighten 
yourself.  You trancend your mind.

   The Enlightened person acts in perfect accord with the Total-
natural-Law.  Not Nature.

   There are 4 major paths.  Karma-yoga, Bhakti-Yoga, Gyana-
yoga and Hatha-yoga all explained in BG.

   For an intellectual entity, eating meat or smoking tobacco 
is against Total-natural-Law.

   You are crazy Jim bitch.  What the hell is your dharma 
anyway.?
   
no more caffeine for you my friend!...






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Victory Beef or War?